Should one double the thirds or the fifth in chords?Doubling the third of a root position major chord in four-part harmonyWhat are the notes in a 11th chord?Chord compatibility or something else?Is there any theory to decide a set of plausible chords per measure where a whole melody of a song is given?Common Practice Music Theory - Easier method to memorize 4-part harmony doubling rules?Rules of how the bass should (and should not) move in chord progressionsDoes the rule regarding consecutive octaves/fifths actually hold any weight?What is a chord consisting of Root, 9th and 11th called?Diminished and augmented power chordsParallel chord substitutionsIs there a name for a chord with a major 3 and b5? When can it be used?

Has the United States ever had a non-Christian President?

How do I, as a DM, handle a party that decides to set up an ambush in a dungeon?

Are pressure-treated posts that have been submerged for a few days ruined?

Which US defense organization would respond to an invasion like this?

Is Benjen dead?

Adding command shortcuts to /bin

What was Bran's plan to kill the Night King?

As a GM, is it bad form to ask for a moment to think when improvising?

Trigonometry substitution issue with sign

Gerrymandering Puzzle - Rig the Election

Expected Waiting Time in a Queue with exponential distribution

To kill a cuckoo

Are the Night's Watch still required?

Why symmetry transformations have to commute with Hamiltonian?

Notation: What does the tilde below of the expectation mean?

Why is "breaking the mould" positively connoted?

Install LibreOffice-Writer Only not LibreOffice whole package

How do LIGO and VIRGO know that a gravitational wave has its origin in a neutron star or a black hole?

Constitutional limitation of criminalizing behavior in US law?

How should I tell my manager I'm not paying for an optional after work event I'm not going to?

Is there precedent or are there procedures for a US president refusing to concede to an electoral defeat?

Is an HNN extension of a virtually torsion-free group virtually torsion-free?

Why do people keep telling me that I am a bad photographer?

What is a common way to tell if an academic is "above average," or outstanding in their field? Is their h-index (Hirsh index) one of them?



Should one double the thirds or the fifth in chords?


Doubling the third of a root position major chord in four-part harmonyWhat are the notes in a 11th chord?Chord compatibility or something else?Is there any theory to decide a set of plausible chords per measure where a whole melody of a song is given?Common Practice Music Theory - Easier method to memorize 4-part harmony doubling rules?Rules of how the bass should (and should not) move in chord progressionsDoes the rule regarding consecutive octaves/fifths actually hold any weight?What is a chord consisting of Root, 9th and 11th called?Diminished and augmented power chordsParallel chord substitutionsIs there a name for a chord with a major 3 and b5? When can it be used?













9















Generally, theory books mention that one should double the root of the chord. This is followed most of the time, except by some composers who choose to double the 3rd or the 5th of the chord.



When attempting theory exams, can you double the 3rd or the 5th of the chord as well? When does one double the 3rd or the 5th of a chord? Or is it that composers can choose which note of the chord to double? Is there a rule regarding doubling notes of the chord other than the root?










share|improve this question



















  • 1





    Related: Doubling the third of a root position major chord in four-part harmony

    – Richard
    Apr 30 at 14:35











  • Thank you @Richard

    – Grace
    Apr 30 at 14:40






  • 1





    I liked all answers as they did just what I would expect at an exam: They argue and don‘t give just rules but reasons!

    – Albrecht Hügli
    Apr 30 at 21:02






  • 1





    A clear and succinct answer for exams: always double the root except: in 2nd inversion, double the 5th. If a minor chord in 1st inversion, doubled 3rd is fine.

    – jjmusicnotes
    May 1 at 2:59















9















Generally, theory books mention that one should double the root of the chord. This is followed most of the time, except by some composers who choose to double the 3rd or the 5th of the chord.



When attempting theory exams, can you double the 3rd or the 5th of the chord as well? When does one double the 3rd or the 5th of a chord? Or is it that composers can choose which note of the chord to double? Is there a rule regarding doubling notes of the chord other than the root?










share|improve this question



















  • 1





    Related: Doubling the third of a root position major chord in four-part harmony

    – Richard
    Apr 30 at 14:35











  • Thank you @Richard

    – Grace
    Apr 30 at 14:40






  • 1





    I liked all answers as they did just what I would expect at an exam: They argue and don‘t give just rules but reasons!

    – Albrecht Hügli
    Apr 30 at 21:02






  • 1





    A clear and succinct answer for exams: always double the root except: in 2nd inversion, double the 5th. If a minor chord in 1st inversion, doubled 3rd is fine.

    – jjmusicnotes
    May 1 at 2:59













9












9








9








Generally, theory books mention that one should double the root of the chord. This is followed most of the time, except by some composers who choose to double the 3rd or the 5th of the chord.



When attempting theory exams, can you double the 3rd or the 5th of the chord as well? When does one double the 3rd or the 5th of a chord? Or is it that composers can choose which note of the chord to double? Is there a rule regarding doubling notes of the chord other than the root?










share|improve this question
















Generally, theory books mention that one should double the root of the chord. This is followed most of the time, except by some composers who choose to double the 3rd or the 5th of the chord.



When attempting theory exams, can you double the 3rd or the 5th of the chord as well? When does one double the 3rd or the 5th of a chord? Or is it that composers can choose which note of the chord to double? Is there a rule regarding doubling notes of the chord other than the root?







theory chords harmony chord-theory chord-progressions






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Apr 30 at 13:59









Shevliaskovic

21.1k1381175




21.1k1381175










asked Apr 30 at 13:09









GraceGrace

28711




28711







  • 1





    Related: Doubling the third of a root position major chord in four-part harmony

    – Richard
    Apr 30 at 14:35











  • Thank you @Richard

    – Grace
    Apr 30 at 14:40






  • 1





    I liked all answers as they did just what I would expect at an exam: They argue and don‘t give just rules but reasons!

    – Albrecht Hügli
    Apr 30 at 21:02






  • 1





    A clear and succinct answer for exams: always double the root except: in 2nd inversion, double the 5th. If a minor chord in 1st inversion, doubled 3rd is fine.

    – jjmusicnotes
    May 1 at 2:59












  • 1





    Related: Doubling the third of a root position major chord in four-part harmony

    – Richard
    Apr 30 at 14:35











  • Thank you @Richard

    – Grace
    Apr 30 at 14:40






  • 1





    I liked all answers as they did just what I would expect at an exam: They argue and don‘t give just rules but reasons!

    – Albrecht Hügli
    Apr 30 at 21:02






  • 1





    A clear and succinct answer for exams: always double the root except: in 2nd inversion, double the 5th. If a minor chord in 1st inversion, doubled 3rd is fine.

    – jjmusicnotes
    May 1 at 2:59







1




1





Related: Doubling the third of a root position major chord in four-part harmony

– Richard
Apr 30 at 14:35





Related: Doubling the third of a root position major chord in four-part harmony

– Richard
Apr 30 at 14:35













Thank you @Richard

– Grace
Apr 30 at 14:40





Thank you @Richard

– Grace
Apr 30 at 14:40




1




1





I liked all answers as they did just what I would expect at an exam: They argue and don‘t give just rules but reasons!

– Albrecht Hügli
Apr 30 at 21:02





I liked all answers as they did just what I would expect at an exam: They argue and don‘t give just rules but reasons!

– Albrecht Hügli
Apr 30 at 21:02




1




1





A clear and succinct answer for exams: always double the root except: in 2nd inversion, double the 5th. If a minor chord in 1st inversion, doubled 3rd is fine.

– jjmusicnotes
May 1 at 2:59





A clear and succinct answer for exams: always double the root except: in 2nd inversion, double the 5th. If a minor chord in 1st inversion, doubled 3rd is fine.

– jjmusicnotes
May 1 at 2:59










5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes


















6














There is a difference in what composers do and what is acceptable in a theory exam.



In an exam, usually you don't double the third of a major chord, but you can double it if the chord is minor. Doubling the root or the fifth is the safe choice. To see what note of the chord you'd double, you have to see the preceding as well as the following chord. You'll see that sometimes you cannot double the root, so you'll have to double the fifth/third or vice versa. There isn't a single rule to follow for this, you have to practice harmony.



Exams aside, when you double the root, you make the chord sound somewhat stronger, as far as tonality is concerned. It's not uncommon in piano pieces, for the left hand to play the root in octaves (not only in classical harmony, but in modern music as well)






share|improve this answer






























    6















    When attempting theory exams...




    Ask the person who will grade the exam.



    Whatever rule they want you to follow for the exam will be contradicted by actual practice.



    You can easily find examples of a root position tonic chord with the third doubled and the fifth omitted.



    Walter Piston's Harmony has a simple rule: in root position double the root, for inversions double one of the tonal degrees of the key. The logic is clear enough. Doubling tonal degrees with reinforce the tonality. In terms of actual historic practice, I defer to Piston to have know better than me. I like the rule, because it is logical and I can remember it.



    I once took an exam where in order to get a correct answer I had to contradict what I knew to be true from actual composer's scores and Piston's rule.






    share|improve this answer






























      4














      The rule comes down to two things: voice leading and avoiding parallel fifths/octaves.



      In an SATB arrangement you're going to double a pitch, or leave one voice with nothing to do. Each voice should be moving smoothly, and generally following the guidelines of counterpoint. You'll need to look at what each voice is doing, and look at what chord comes next to make the decision on what gets doubled.



      Beyond that, the hard and fast rule is that the last chord is voice with the root doubled, and it should be in the bass and soprano.






      share|improve this answer























      • How would C4 E4 E5 to B3 G4 D5 violate voice leading ideals re. parallel fifths/octaves or any other harmony/counterpoint idea?

        – Michael Curtis
        Apr 30 at 17:49











      • @MichaelCurtis - it wouldn't. But your example doesn't double anything. The problem lies in the doubled notes - they have to move in contrary or oblique motion, else they end up being parallel octaves. How they move creates the risk of parallel 5ths/8ves with the other tones.

        – Tom Serb
        Apr 30 at 20:47












      • I meant those two note groups at chords. The doubling is the E4 and E5 in a C chord C4 E4 E5 to a G chord B3 G4 D5. There is nothing wrong with that, but it violates these voice doubling rules.

        – Michael Curtis
        Apr 30 at 21:43






      • 1





        This forum is the first place I heard of doubling rules being used as some kind of voice leading safety mechanism. I've always understood doubling to be about tonal stability.

        – Michael Curtis
        Apr 30 at 21:47


















      3














      As I understand it, this question has to do with chord voicing. In practice the note most often doubled is the tonic. This reinforces the overall sound of the chord and stresses the key-center. Doubling the fifth strengthens the "stability" of the chord, and doubling the third emphasizes the major or minor aspect of the chord. When we choose to double notes in a chord, we are choosing which chord voicing to use in an arrangement and how one chord relates to another in a chord progression. When one chord changes to another, the highest note in the chord establishes a melodic relationship to the highest note of the next chord and the lowest note establishes the inversion of the chord. As I play around with different voicings, I can hear for myself what works and what doesn't.






      share|improve this answer






























        2














        The sense of an exam is that you will have the chance to show that you know more than the experts.



        That you are able to discuss a question and not searching the one only correct answer, to demonstrate that you have the competence to break rules and argue why your point is also possible and defend it. Books are often written by a follower or disciples of a certain theory in the style of a catechism.



        I agree with Michael Curtis supporting especially the last sentence.



        So you can surprise your experts when you ask: do you mean the rules of the Vienna epoque or Baroque, and if Haydn ... the early Haydn or the later? It‘s good to know the principles of different authors as you can better understand, learn and memorize the rules if you can compare them with each other’s. It‘s interesting to see how different authors came to different rules in different times. (Only with this position you can show that you know something and don‘t only repeat what you have read in books!)



        The 2 pages are copied of the „Harmonielehre“ (de la Motte). He shows that the doubling of the third (basstone, first inversion) respectively the root tone of the triads of major chords in root position has changed and varied in the two Epoques and that applying the rules of the Classic-period to the music of Bach and Händel is absolutely wrong (German ed.) inaccurate (English ed.)



        enter image description hereenter image description here






        share|improve this answer























        • Thanks for post those pages. Very interesting! I really like those "corpus" studies, even when the sample is small I think they can reveal a lot.

          – Michael Curtis
          2 days ago











        Your Answer








        StackExchange.ready(function()
        var channelOptions =
        tags: "".split(" "),
        id: "240"
        ;
        initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

        StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
        // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
        if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
        StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
        createEditor();
        );

        else
        createEditor();

        );

        function createEditor()
        StackExchange.prepareEditor(
        heartbeatType: 'answer',
        autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
        convertImagesToLinks: false,
        noModals: true,
        showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
        reputationToPostImages: null,
        bindNavPrevention: true,
        postfix: "",
        imageUploader:
        brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
        contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
        allowUrls: true
        ,
        noCode: true, onDemand: true,
        discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
        ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
        );



        );













        draft saved

        draft discarded


















        StackExchange.ready(
        function ()
        StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmusic.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f84381%2fshould-one-double-the-thirds-or-the-fifth-in-chords%23new-answer', 'question_page');

        );

        Post as a guest















        Required, but never shown

























        5 Answers
        5






        active

        oldest

        votes








        5 Answers
        5






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        6














        There is a difference in what composers do and what is acceptable in a theory exam.



        In an exam, usually you don't double the third of a major chord, but you can double it if the chord is minor. Doubling the root or the fifth is the safe choice. To see what note of the chord you'd double, you have to see the preceding as well as the following chord. You'll see that sometimes you cannot double the root, so you'll have to double the fifth/third or vice versa. There isn't a single rule to follow for this, you have to practice harmony.



        Exams aside, when you double the root, you make the chord sound somewhat stronger, as far as tonality is concerned. It's not uncommon in piano pieces, for the left hand to play the root in octaves (not only in classical harmony, but in modern music as well)






        share|improve this answer



























          6














          There is a difference in what composers do and what is acceptable in a theory exam.



          In an exam, usually you don't double the third of a major chord, but you can double it if the chord is minor. Doubling the root or the fifth is the safe choice. To see what note of the chord you'd double, you have to see the preceding as well as the following chord. You'll see that sometimes you cannot double the root, so you'll have to double the fifth/third or vice versa. There isn't a single rule to follow for this, you have to practice harmony.



          Exams aside, when you double the root, you make the chord sound somewhat stronger, as far as tonality is concerned. It's not uncommon in piano pieces, for the left hand to play the root in octaves (not only in classical harmony, but in modern music as well)






          share|improve this answer

























            6












            6








            6







            There is a difference in what composers do and what is acceptable in a theory exam.



            In an exam, usually you don't double the third of a major chord, but you can double it if the chord is minor. Doubling the root or the fifth is the safe choice. To see what note of the chord you'd double, you have to see the preceding as well as the following chord. You'll see that sometimes you cannot double the root, so you'll have to double the fifth/third or vice versa. There isn't a single rule to follow for this, you have to practice harmony.



            Exams aside, when you double the root, you make the chord sound somewhat stronger, as far as tonality is concerned. It's not uncommon in piano pieces, for the left hand to play the root in octaves (not only in classical harmony, but in modern music as well)






            share|improve this answer













            There is a difference in what composers do and what is acceptable in a theory exam.



            In an exam, usually you don't double the third of a major chord, but you can double it if the chord is minor. Doubling the root or the fifth is the safe choice. To see what note of the chord you'd double, you have to see the preceding as well as the following chord. You'll see that sometimes you cannot double the root, so you'll have to double the fifth/third or vice versa. There isn't a single rule to follow for this, you have to practice harmony.



            Exams aside, when you double the root, you make the chord sound somewhat stronger, as far as tonality is concerned. It's not uncommon in piano pieces, for the left hand to play the root in octaves (not only in classical harmony, but in modern music as well)







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered Apr 30 at 13:48









            ShevliaskovicShevliaskovic

            21.1k1381175




            21.1k1381175





















                6















                When attempting theory exams...




                Ask the person who will grade the exam.



                Whatever rule they want you to follow for the exam will be contradicted by actual practice.



                You can easily find examples of a root position tonic chord with the third doubled and the fifth omitted.



                Walter Piston's Harmony has a simple rule: in root position double the root, for inversions double one of the tonal degrees of the key. The logic is clear enough. Doubling tonal degrees with reinforce the tonality. In terms of actual historic practice, I defer to Piston to have know better than me. I like the rule, because it is logical and I can remember it.



                I once took an exam where in order to get a correct answer I had to contradict what I knew to be true from actual composer's scores and Piston's rule.






                share|improve this answer



























                  6















                  When attempting theory exams...




                  Ask the person who will grade the exam.



                  Whatever rule they want you to follow for the exam will be contradicted by actual practice.



                  You can easily find examples of a root position tonic chord with the third doubled and the fifth omitted.



                  Walter Piston's Harmony has a simple rule: in root position double the root, for inversions double one of the tonal degrees of the key. The logic is clear enough. Doubling tonal degrees with reinforce the tonality. In terms of actual historic practice, I defer to Piston to have know better than me. I like the rule, because it is logical and I can remember it.



                  I once took an exam where in order to get a correct answer I had to contradict what I knew to be true from actual composer's scores and Piston's rule.






                  share|improve this answer

























                    6












                    6








                    6








                    When attempting theory exams...




                    Ask the person who will grade the exam.



                    Whatever rule they want you to follow for the exam will be contradicted by actual practice.



                    You can easily find examples of a root position tonic chord with the third doubled and the fifth omitted.



                    Walter Piston's Harmony has a simple rule: in root position double the root, for inversions double one of the tonal degrees of the key. The logic is clear enough. Doubling tonal degrees with reinforce the tonality. In terms of actual historic practice, I defer to Piston to have know better than me. I like the rule, because it is logical and I can remember it.



                    I once took an exam where in order to get a correct answer I had to contradict what I knew to be true from actual composer's scores and Piston's rule.






                    share|improve this answer














                    When attempting theory exams...




                    Ask the person who will grade the exam.



                    Whatever rule they want you to follow for the exam will be contradicted by actual practice.



                    You can easily find examples of a root position tonic chord with the third doubled and the fifth omitted.



                    Walter Piston's Harmony has a simple rule: in root position double the root, for inversions double one of the tonal degrees of the key. The logic is clear enough. Doubling tonal degrees with reinforce the tonality. In terms of actual historic practice, I defer to Piston to have know better than me. I like the rule, because it is logical and I can remember it.



                    I once took an exam where in order to get a correct answer I had to contradict what I knew to be true from actual composer's scores and Piston's rule.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered Apr 30 at 17:45









                    Michael CurtisMichael Curtis

                    13.3k1047




                    13.3k1047





















                        4














                        The rule comes down to two things: voice leading and avoiding parallel fifths/octaves.



                        In an SATB arrangement you're going to double a pitch, or leave one voice with nothing to do. Each voice should be moving smoothly, and generally following the guidelines of counterpoint. You'll need to look at what each voice is doing, and look at what chord comes next to make the decision on what gets doubled.



                        Beyond that, the hard and fast rule is that the last chord is voice with the root doubled, and it should be in the bass and soprano.






                        share|improve this answer























                        • How would C4 E4 E5 to B3 G4 D5 violate voice leading ideals re. parallel fifths/octaves or any other harmony/counterpoint idea?

                          – Michael Curtis
                          Apr 30 at 17:49











                        • @MichaelCurtis - it wouldn't. But your example doesn't double anything. The problem lies in the doubled notes - they have to move in contrary or oblique motion, else they end up being parallel octaves. How they move creates the risk of parallel 5ths/8ves with the other tones.

                          – Tom Serb
                          Apr 30 at 20:47












                        • I meant those two note groups at chords. The doubling is the E4 and E5 in a C chord C4 E4 E5 to a G chord B3 G4 D5. There is nothing wrong with that, but it violates these voice doubling rules.

                          – Michael Curtis
                          Apr 30 at 21:43






                        • 1





                          This forum is the first place I heard of doubling rules being used as some kind of voice leading safety mechanism. I've always understood doubling to be about tonal stability.

                          – Michael Curtis
                          Apr 30 at 21:47















                        4














                        The rule comes down to two things: voice leading and avoiding parallel fifths/octaves.



                        In an SATB arrangement you're going to double a pitch, or leave one voice with nothing to do. Each voice should be moving smoothly, and generally following the guidelines of counterpoint. You'll need to look at what each voice is doing, and look at what chord comes next to make the decision on what gets doubled.



                        Beyond that, the hard and fast rule is that the last chord is voice with the root doubled, and it should be in the bass and soprano.






                        share|improve this answer























                        • How would C4 E4 E5 to B3 G4 D5 violate voice leading ideals re. parallel fifths/octaves or any other harmony/counterpoint idea?

                          – Michael Curtis
                          Apr 30 at 17:49











                        • @MichaelCurtis - it wouldn't. But your example doesn't double anything. The problem lies in the doubled notes - they have to move in contrary or oblique motion, else they end up being parallel octaves. How they move creates the risk of parallel 5ths/8ves with the other tones.

                          – Tom Serb
                          Apr 30 at 20:47












                        • I meant those two note groups at chords. The doubling is the E4 and E5 in a C chord C4 E4 E5 to a G chord B3 G4 D5. There is nothing wrong with that, but it violates these voice doubling rules.

                          – Michael Curtis
                          Apr 30 at 21:43






                        • 1





                          This forum is the first place I heard of doubling rules being used as some kind of voice leading safety mechanism. I've always understood doubling to be about tonal stability.

                          – Michael Curtis
                          Apr 30 at 21:47













                        4












                        4








                        4







                        The rule comes down to two things: voice leading and avoiding parallel fifths/octaves.



                        In an SATB arrangement you're going to double a pitch, or leave one voice with nothing to do. Each voice should be moving smoothly, and generally following the guidelines of counterpoint. You'll need to look at what each voice is doing, and look at what chord comes next to make the decision on what gets doubled.



                        Beyond that, the hard and fast rule is that the last chord is voice with the root doubled, and it should be in the bass and soprano.






                        share|improve this answer













                        The rule comes down to two things: voice leading and avoiding parallel fifths/octaves.



                        In an SATB arrangement you're going to double a pitch, or leave one voice with nothing to do. Each voice should be moving smoothly, and generally following the guidelines of counterpoint. You'll need to look at what each voice is doing, and look at what chord comes next to make the decision on what gets doubled.



                        Beyond that, the hard and fast rule is that the last chord is voice with the root doubled, and it should be in the bass and soprano.







                        share|improve this answer












                        share|improve this answer



                        share|improve this answer










                        answered Apr 30 at 13:42









                        Tom SerbTom Serb

                        1,494110




                        1,494110












                        • How would C4 E4 E5 to B3 G4 D5 violate voice leading ideals re. parallel fifths/octaves or any other harmony/counterpoint idea?

                          – Michael Curtis
                          Apr 30 at 17:49











                        • @MichaelCurtis - it wouldn't. But your example doesn't double anything. The problem lies in the doubled notes - they have to move in contrary or oblique motion, else they end up being parallel octaves. How they move creates the risk of parallel 5ths/8ves with the other tones.

                          – Tom Serb
                          Apr 30 at 20:47












                        • I meant those two note groups at chords. The doubling is the E4 and E5 in a C chord C4 E4 E5 to a G chord B3 G4 D5. There is nothing wrong with that, but it violates these voice doubling rules.

                          – Michael Curtis
                          Apr 30 at 21:43






                        • 1





                          This forum is the first place I heard of doubling rules being used as some kind of voice leading safety mechanism. I've always understood doubling to be about tonal stability.

                          – Michael Curtis
                          Apr 30 at 21:47

















                        • How would C4 E4 E5 to B3 G4 D5 violate voice leading ideals re. parallel fifths/octaves or any other harmony/counterpoint idea?

                          – Michael Curtis
                          Apr 30 at 17:49











                        • @MichaelCurtis - it wouldn't. But your example doesn't double anything. The problem lies in the doubled notes - they have to move in contrary or oblique motion, else they end up being parallel octaves. How they move creates the risk of parallel 5ths/8ves with the other tones.

                          – Tom Serb
                          Apr 30 at 20:47












                        • I meant those two note groups at chords. The doubling is the E4 and E5 in a C chord C4 E4 E5 to a G chord B3 G4 D5. There is nothing wrong with that, but it violates these voice doubling rules.

                          – Michael Curtis
                          Apr 30 at 21:43






                        • 1





                          This forum is the first place I heard of doubling rules being used as some kind of voice leading safety mechanism. I've always understood doubling to be about tonal stability.

                          – Michael Curtis
                          Apr 30 at 21:47
















                        How would C4 E4 E5 to B3 G4 D5 violate voice leading ideals re. parallel fifths/octaves or any other harmony/counterpoint idea?

                        – Michael Curtis
                        Apr 30 at 17:49





                        How would C4 E4 E5 to B3 G4 D5 violate voice leading ideals re. parallel fifths/octaves or any other harmony/counterpoint idea?

                        – Michael Curtis
                        Apr 30 at 17:49













                        @MichaelCurtis - it wouldn't. But your example doesn't double anything. The problem lies in the doubled notes - they have to move in contrary or oblique motion, else they end up being parallel octaves. How they move creates the risk of parallel 5ths/8ves with the other tones.

                        – Tom Serb
                        Apr 30 at 20:47






                        @MichaelCurtis - it wouldn't. But your example doesn't double anything. The problem lies in the doubled notes - they have to move in contrary or oblique motion, else they end up being parallel octaves. How they move creates the risk of parallel 5ths/8ves with the other tones.

                        – Tom Serb
                        Apr 30 at 20:47














                        I meant those two note groups at chords. The doubling is the E4 and E5 in a C chord C4 E4 E5 to a G chord B3 G4 D5. There is nothing wrong with that, but it violates these voice doubling rules.

                        – Michael Curtis
                        Apr 30 at 21:43





                        I meant those two note groups at chords. The doubling is the E4 and E5 in a C chord C4 E4 E5 to a G chord B3 G4 D5. There is nothing wrong with that, but it violates these voice doubling rules.

                        – Michael Curtis
                        Apr 30 at 21:43




                        1




                        1





                        This forum is the first place I heard of doubling rules being used as some kind of voice leading safety mechanism. I've always understood doubling to be about tonal stability.

                        – Michael Curtis
                        Apr 30 at 21:47





                        This forum is the first place I heard of doubling rules being used as some kind of voice leading safety mechanism. I've always understood doubling to be about tonal stability.

                        – Michael Curtis
                        Apr 30 at 21:47











                        3














                        As I understand it, this question has to do with chord voicing. In practice the note most often doubled is the tonic. This reinforces the overall sound of the chord and stresses the key-center. Doubling the fifth strengthens the "stability" of the chord, and doubling the third emphasizes the major or minor aspect of the chord. When we choose to double notes in a chord, we are choosing which chord voicing to use in an arrangement and how one chord relates to another in a chord progression. When one chord changes to another, the highest note in the chord establishes a melodic relationship to the highest note of the next chord and the lowest note establishes the inversion of the chord. As I play around with different voicings, I can hear for myself what works and what doesn't.






                        share|improve this answer



























                          3














                          As I understand it, this question has to do with chord voicing. In practice the note most often doubled is the tonic. This reinforces the overall sound of the chord and stresses the key-center. Doubling the fifth strengthens the "stability" of the chord, and doubling the third emphasizes the major or minor aspect of the chord. When we choose to double notes in a chord, we are choosing which chord voicing to use in an arrangement and how one chord relates to another in a chord progression. When one chord changes to another, the highest note in the chord establishes a melodic relationship to the highest note of the next chord and the lowest note establishes the inversion of the chord. As I play around with different voicings, I can hear for myself what works and what doesn't.






                          share|improve this answer

























                            3












                            3








                            3







                            As I understand it, this question has to do with chord voicing. In practice the note most often doubled is the tonic. This reinforces the overall sound of the chord and stresses the key-center. Doubling the fifth strengthens the "stability" of the chord, and doubling the third emphasizes the major or minor aspect of the chord. When we choose to double notes in a chord, we are choosing which chord voicing to use in an arrangement and how one chord relates to another in a chord progression. When one chord changes to another, the highest note in the chord establishes a melodic relationship to the highest note of the next chord and the lowest note establishes the inversion of the chord. As I play around with different voicings, I can hear for myself what works and what doesn't.






                            share|improve this answer













                            As I understand it, this question has to do with chord voicing. In practice the note most often doubled is the tonic. This reinforces the overall sound of the chord and stresses the key-center. Doubling the fifth strengthens the "stability" of the chord, and doubling the third emphasizes the major or minor aspect of the chord. When we choose to double notes in a chord, we are choosing which chord voicing to use in an arrangement and how one chord relates to another in a chord progression. When one chord changes to another, the highest note in the chord establishes a melodic relationship to the highest note of the next chord and the lowest note establishes the inversion of the chord. As I play around with different voicings, I can hear for myself what works and what doesn't.







                            share|improve this answer












                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer










                            answered Apr 30 at 17:19









                            skinny peacockskinny peacock

                            2,3122324




                            2,3122324





















                                2














                                The sense of an exam is that you will have the chance to show that you know more than the experts.



                                That you are able to discuss a question and not searching the one only correct answer, to demonstrate that you have the competence to break rules and argue why your point is also possible and defend it. Books are often written by a follower or disciples of a certain theory in the style of a catechism.



                                I agree with Michael Curtis supporting especially the last sentence.



                                So you can surprise your experts when you ask: do you mean the rules of the Vienna epoque or Baroque, and if Haydn ... the early Haydn or the later? It‘s good to know the principles of different authors as you can better understand, learn and memorize the rules if you can compare them with each other’s. It‘s interesting to see how different authors came to different rules in different times. (Only with this position you can show that you know something and don‘t only repeat what you have read in books!)



                                The 2 pages are copied of the „Harmonielehre“ (de la Motte). He shows that the doubling of the third (basstone, first inversion) respectively the root tone of the triads of major chords in root position has changed and varied in the two Epoques and that applying the rules of the Classic-period to the music of Bach and Händel is absolutely wrong (German ed.) inaccurate (English ed.)



                                enter image description hereenter image description here






                                share|improve this answer























                                • Thanks for post those pages. Very interesting! I really like those "corpus" studies, even when the sample is small I think they can reveal a lot.

                                  – Michael Curtis
                                  2 days ago















                                2














                                The sense of an exam is that you will have the chance to show that you know more than the experts.



                                That you are able to discuss a question and not searching the one only correct answer, to demonstrate that you have the competence to break rules and argue why your point is also possible and defend it. Books are often written by a follower or disciples of a certain theory in the style of a catechism.



                                I agree with Michael Curtis supporting especially the last sentence.



                                So you can surprise your experts when you ask: do you mean the rules of the Vienna epoque or Baroque, and if Haydn ... the early Haydn or the later? It‘s good to know the principles of different authors as you can better understand, learn and memorize the rules if you can compare them with each other’s. It‘s interesting to see how different authors came to different rules in different times. (Only with this position you can show that you know something and don‘t only repeat what you have read in books!)



                                The 2 pages are copied of the „Harmonielehre“ (de la Motte). He shows that the doubling of the third (basstone, first inversion) respectively the root tone of the triads of major chords in root position has changed and varied in the two Epoques and that applying the rules of the Classic-period to the music of Bach and Händel is absolutely wrong (German ed.) inaccurate (English ed.)



                                enter image description hereenter image description here






                                share|improve this answer























                                • Thanks for post those pages. Very interesting! I really like those "corpus" studies, even when the sample is small I think they can reveal a lot.

                                  – Michael Curtis
                                  2 days ago













                                2












                                2








                                2







                                The sense of an exam is that you will have the chance to show that you know more than the experts.



                                That you are able to discuss a question and not searching the one only correct answer, to demonstrate that you have the competence to break rules and argue why your point is also possible and defend it. Books are often written by a follower or disciples of a certain theory in the style of a catechism.



                                I agree with Michael Curtis supporting especially the last sentence.



                                So you can surprise your experts when you ask: do you mean the rules of the Vienna epoque or Baroque, and if Haydn ... the early Haydn or the later? It‘s good to know the principles of different authors as you can better understand, learn and memorize the rules if you can compare them with each other’s. It‘s interesting to see how different authors came to different rules in different times. (Only with this position you can show that you know something and don‘t only repeat what you have read in books!)



                                The 2 pages are copied of the „Harmonielehre“ (de la Motte). He shows that the doubling of the third (basstone, first inversion) respectively the root tone of the triads of major chords in root position has changed and varied in the two Epoques and that applying the rules of the Classic-period to the music of Bach and Händel is absolutely wrong (German ed.) inaccurate (English ed.)



                                enter image description hereenter image description here






                                share|improve this answer













                                The sense of an exam is that you will have the chance to show that you know more than the experts.



                                That you are able to discuss a question and not searching the one only correct answer, to demonstrate that you have the competence to break rules and argue why your point is also possible and defend it. Books are often written by a follower or disciples of a certain theory in the style of a catechism.



                                I agree with Michael Curtis supporting especially the last sentence.



                                So you can surprise your experts when you ask: do you mean the rules of the Vienna epoque or Baroque, and if Haydn ... the early Haydn or the later? It‘s good to know the principles of different authors as you can better understand, learn and memorize the rules if you can compare them with each other’s. It‘s interesting to see how different authors came to different rules in different times. (Only with this position you can show that you know something and don‘t only repeat what you have read in books!)



                                The 2 pages are copied of the „Harmonielehre“ (de la Motte). He shows that the doubling of the third (basstone, first inversion) respectively the root tone of the triads of major chords in root position has changed and varied in the two Epoques and that applying the rules of the Classic-period to the music of Bach and Händel is absolutely wrong (German ed.) inaccurate (English ed.)



                                enter image description hereenter image description here







                                share|improve this answer












                                share|improve this answer



                                share|improve this answer










                                answered Apr 30 at 20:52









                                Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli

                                5,7241523




                                5,7241523












                                • Thanks for post those pages. Very interesting! I really like those "corpus" studies, even when the sample is small I think they can reveal a lot.

                                  – Michael Curtis
                                  2 days ago

















                                • Thanks for post those pages. Very interesting! I really like those "corpus" studies, even when the sample is small I think they can reveal a lot.

                                  – Michael Curtis
                                  2 days ago
















                                Thanks for post those pages. Very interesting! I really like those "corpus" studies, even when the sample is small I think they can reveal a lot.

                                – Michael Curtis
                                2 days ago





                                Thanks for post those pages. Very interesting! I really like those "corpus" studies, even when the sample is small I think they can reveal a lot.

                                – Michael Curtis
                                2 days ago

















                                draft saved

                                draft discarded
















































                                Thanks for contributing an answer to Music: Practice & Theory Stack Exchange!


                                • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                But avoid


                                • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                                To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                                draft saved


                                draft discarded














                                StackExchange.ready(
                                function ()
                                StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmusic.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f84381%2fshould-one-double-the-thirds-or-the-fifth-in-chords%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                                );

                                Post as a guest















                                Required, but never shown





















































                                Required, but never shown














                                Required, but never shown












                                Required, but never shown







                                Required, but never shown

































                                Required, but never shown














                                Required, but never shown












                                Required, but never shown







                                Required, but never shown







                                Popular posts from this blog

                                Get product attribute by attribute group code in magento 2get product attribute by product attribute group in magento 2Magento 2 Log Bundle Product Data in List Page?How to get all product attribute of a attribute group of Default attribute set?Magento 2.1 Create a filter in the product grid by new attributeMagento 2 : Get Product Attribute values By GroupMagento 2 How to get all existing values for one attributeMagento 2 get custom attribute of a single product inside a pluginMagento 2.3 How to get all the Multi Source Inventory (MSI) locations collection in custom module?Magento2: how to develop rest API to get new productsGet product attribute by attribute group code ( [attribute_group_code] ) in magento 2

                                Category:9 (number) SubcategoriesMedia in category "9 (number)"Navigation menuUpload mediaGND ID: 4485639-8Library of Congress authority ID: sh85091979ReasonatorScholiaStatistics

                                Magento 2.3: How do i solve this, Not registered handle, on custom form?How can i rewrite TierPrice Block in Magento2magento 2 captcha not rendering if I override layout xmlmain.CRITICAL: Plugin class doesn't existMagento 2 : Problem while adding custom button order view page?Magento 2.2.5: Overriding Admin Controller sales/orderMagento 2.2.5: Add, Update and Delete existing products Custom OptionsMagento 2.3 : File Upload issue in UI Component FormMagento2 Not registered handleHow to configured Form Builder Js in my custom magento 2.3.0 module?Magento 2.3. How to create image upload field in an admin form