Freewill and rewarding dogsIs free will limited to humans?Do the actions of animals have moral value?Did hardening Paro's heart mean he wasn't really responsible?How do rabbis explain the reason for the Spanish Expulsion. Why did the Jewish people deserve itDoes the existence of punishment remove the possibility of free will?Do Amalekians not have souls?Dama ben Nesina and the red heiferThe wicked rewarded here seemingly aren't rewarded in full. Fair?Punishment for assaultWhy does G-d reward reshaim in this world to punish them in the next, if He is good?Was Iyov rewarded for passing his first test?Reward for keeping Minhagim and Chumros
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Freewill and rewarding dogs
Is free will limited to humans?Do the actions of animals have moral value?Did hardening Paro's heart mean he wasn't really responsible?How do rabbis explain the reason for the Spanish Expulsion. Why did the Jewish people deserve itDoes the existence of punishment remove the possibility of free will?Do Amalekians not have souls?Dama ben Nesina and the red heiferThe wicked rewarded here seemingly aren't rewarded in full. Fair?Punishment for assaultWhy does G-d reward reshaim in this world to punish them in the next, if He is good?Was Iyov rewarded for passing his first test?Reward for keeping Minhagim and Chumros
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If animals don't have freewill, why are dogs rewarded for not having barked at Jewish people during the Exodus from Egypt? (Exodus 11 and Exodus 22)
reward-punishment free-will-bechira
edited Jun 16 at 17:15
chortkov2
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asked Jun 16 at 16:25
Rubinho BrasilRubinho Brasil
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If animals don't have freewill, why are dogs rewarded for not having barked at Jewish people during the Exodus from Egypt? (Exodus 11 and Exodus 22)
reward-punishment free-will-bechira
edited Jun 16 at 17:15
chortkov2
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asked Jun 16 at 16:25
Rubinho BrasilRubinho Brasil
311 bronze badge
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Rubinho Brasil is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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2
Why do you think animals don't have free will?
– Double AA♦
Jun 16 at 16:27
@RubinhoBrasil Positive reinforcement is a training technique to encourage particular behavior. It works with most creatures, even insects, reptiles & amphibians. It doesn’t involve free choice. That remains solely in the domain of human beings according to the Torah.
– Yaacov Deane
Jun 16 at 16:33
2
Welcome to Mi Yodeya! Thank you for your question. We hope you stick around.
– LN6595
Jun 16 at 16:34
@Yaacov Deane, what do you mean with positive reinforcement? Dogs didn't bakr at the Jews in Egypt and nowadyas in America we give them non-kosher meat. How is this positive reinforcement?
– user5202
Jun 16 at 16:39
1
It is crucial to understand the nature of educational statements of our Sages. They don't reflect the absolute truth as you expect, instead, they educate us to see G-d's good attributes in many different situations.
– Al Berko
Jun 16 at 21:38
|
show 6 more comments
If animals don't have freewill, why are dogs rewarded for not having barked at Jewish people during the Exodus from Egypt? (Exodus 11 and Exodus 22)
reward-punishment free-will-bechira
edited Jun 16 at 17:15
chortkov2
2,3392 silver badges31 bronze badges
asked Jun 16 at 16:25
Rubinho BrasilRubinho Brasil
311 bronze badge
New contributor
Rubinho Brasil is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
If animals don't have freewill, why are dogs rewarded for not having barked at Jewish people during the Exodus from Egypt? (Exodus 11 and Exodus 22)
reward-punishment free-will-bechira
reward-punishment free-will-bechira
edited Jun 16 at 17:15
chortkov2
2,3392 silver badges31 bronze badges
asked Jun 16 at 16:25
Rubinho BrasilRubinho Brasil
311 bronze badge
New contributor
Rubinho Brasil is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited Jun 16 at 17:15
chortkov2
2,3392 silver badges31 bronze badges
asked Jun 16 at 16:25
Rubinho BrasilRubinho Brasil
311 bronze badge
New contributor
Rubinho Brasil is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited Jun 16 at 17:15
chortkov2
2,3392 silver badges31 bronze badges
edited Jun 16 at 17:15
chortkov2
2,3392 silver badges31 bronze badges
edited Jun 16 at 17:15
chortkov2
2,3392 silver badges31 bronze badges
2,3392 silver badges31 bronze badges
asked Jun 16 at 16:25
Rubinho BrasilRubinho Brasil
311 bronze badge
New contributor
Rubinho Brasil is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked Jun 16 at 16:25
Rubinho BrasilRubinho Brasil
311 bronze badge
asked Jun 16 at 16:25
Rubinho BrasilRubinho Brasil
311 bronze badge
311 bronze badge
New contributor
Rubinho Brasil is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Rubinho Brasil is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
2
Why do you think animals don't have free will?
– Double AA♦
Jun 16 at 16:27
@RubinhoBrasil Positive reinforcement is a training technique to encourage particular behavior. It works with most creatures, even insects, reptiles & amphibians. It doesn’t involve free choice. That remains solely in the domain of human beings according to the Torah.
– Yaacov Deane
Jun 16 at 16:33
2
Welcome to Mi Yodeya! Thank you for your question. We hope you stick around.
– LN6595
Jun 16 at 16:34
@Yaacov Deane, what do you mean with positive reinforcement? Dogs didn't bakr at the Jews in Egypt and nowadyas in America we give them non-kosher meat. How is this positive reinforcement?
– user5202
Jun 16 at 16:39
1
It is crucial to understand the nature of educational statements of our Sages. They don't reflect the absolute truth as you expect, instead, they educate us to see G-d's good attributes in many different situations.
– Al Berko
Jun 16 at 21:38
|
show 6 more comments
2
Why do you think animals don't have free will?
– Double AA♦
Jun 16 at 16:27
@RubinhoBrasil Positive reinforcement is a training technique to encourage particular behavior. It works with most creatures, even insects, reptiles & amphibians. It doesn’t involve free choice. That remains solely in the domain of human beings according to the Torah.
– Yaacov Deane
Jun 16 at 16:33
2
Welcome to Mi Yodeya! Thank you for your question. We hope you stick around.
– LN6595
Jun 16 at 16:34
@Yaacov Deane, what do you mean with positive reinforcement? Dogs didn't bakr at the Jews in Egypt and nowadyas in America we give them non-kosher meat. How is this positive reinforcement?
– user5202
Jun 16 at 16:39
1
It is crucial to understand the nature of educational statements of our Sages. They don't reflect the absolute truth as you expect, instead, they educate us to see G-d's good attributes in many different situations.
– Al Berko
Jun 16 at 21:38
2
2
Why do you think animals don't have free will?
– Double AA♦
Jun 16 at 16:27
Why do you think animals don't have free will?
– Double AA♦
Jun 16 at 16:27
@RubinhoBrasil Positive reinforcement is a training technique to encourage particular behavior. It works with most creatures, even insects, reptiles & amphibians. It doesn’t involve free choice. That remains solely in the domain of human beings according to the Torah.
– Yaacov Deane
Jun 16 at 16:33
@RubinhoBrasil Positive reinforcement is a training technique to encourage particular behavior. It works with most creatures, even insects, reptiles & amphibians. It doesn’t involve free choice. That remains solely in the domain of human beings according to the Torah.
– Yaacov Deane
Jun 16 at 16:33
2
2
Welcome to Mi Yodeya! Thank you for your question. We hope you stick around.
– LN6595
Jun 16 at 16:34
Welcome to Mi Yodeya! Thank you for your question. We hope you stick around.
– LN6595
Jun 16 at 16:34
@Yaacov Deane, what do you mean with positive reinforcement? Dogs didn't bakr at the Jews in Egypt and nowadyas in America we give them non-kosher meat. How is this positive reinforcement?
– user5202
Jun 16 at 16:39
@Yaacov Deane, what do you mean with positive reinforcement? Dogs didn't bakr at the Jews in Egypt and nowadyas in America we give them non-kosher meat. How is this positive reinforcement?
– user5202
Jun 16 at 16:39
1
1
It is crucial to understand the nature of educational statements of our Sages. They don't reflect the absolute truth as you expect, instead, they educate us to see G-d's good attributes in many different situations.
– Al Berko
Jun 16 at 21:38
It is crucial to understand the nature of educational statements of our Sages. They don't reflect the absolute truth as you expect, instead, they educate us to see G-d's good attributes in many different situations.
– Al Berko
Jun 16 at 21:38
|
show 6 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
Rabbi Shafier of The Shmuz asks this question in one of the pieces from Parshas Mishpatim.
The gist of his answer (although I'd recommend reading it directly, it's not too long of an article) is a two step answer: 1) all results come about from Hashem, even though a person puts intent into their actions, ultimately no results would come about from the actions if Hashem didn't will for the results to come about. 2) Nevertheless, Hashem set up the reward system to work in a way where a person gets rewarded for the good that comes about for their actions, even though the results were all from Hashem.
Tying that idea back to your question:
Through the animals a greater good was brought, and for that they
deserve reward. Granted they didn’t intend it — they are animals — but
through them came a good, and that is attributed to them. For that,
they deserve reward.
answered Jun 16 at 21:23
Salmononius2Salmononius2
4,29713 silver badges31 bronze badges
Very good answer from Rabbi Shafier, thanks for pointing out ! But if his statement is true, why didn't the wild animals that brought the 4th plague to Egypt - bringing a massive kidush Hashem - were not rewarded ?! Why only the dogs ???
– user5202
Jun 17 at 13:46
@user5202 probobly they were rewadered (how do you know that only dogs?)
– hazoriz
Jun 17 at 14:23
add a comment |
Free will and reward are not related,
for example, The Moon was punished for complaining.
It is just that G-d Almighty is just.
Is someone deserves good he should get it.
For example parents (even those that exploit their children) deserve respect.
Fruit Trees deserve respect (they should not be destroyed)
Animals deserve respect (even from non-jews) and meat separated from them while they were alive should not be eaten
edited Jun 16 at 21:15
Al Berko
7,7652 gold badges6 silver badges31 bronze badges
answered Jun 16 at 20:58
hazorizhazoriz
2,6772 gold badges10 silver badges38 bronze badges
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Rabbi Shafier of The Shmuz asks this question in one of the pieces from Parshas Mishpatim.
The gist of his answer (although I'd recommend reading it directly, it's not too long of an article) is a two step answer: 1) all results come about from Hashem, even though a person puts intent into their actions, ultimately no results would come about from the actions if Hashem didn't will for the results to come about. 2) Nevertheless, Hashem set up the reward system to work in a way where a person gets rewarded for the good that comes about for their actions, even though the results were all from Hashem.
Tying that idea back to your question:
Through the animals a greater good was brought, and for that they
deserve reward. Granted they didn’t intend it — they are animals — but
through them came a good, and that is attributed to them. For that,
they deserve reward.
answered Jun 16 at 21:23
Salmononius2Salmononius2
4,29713 silver badges31 bronze badges
Very good answer from Rabbi Shafier, thanks for pointing out ! But if his statement is true, why didn't the wild animals that brought the 4th plague to Egypt - bringing a massive kidush Hashem - were not rewarded ?! Why only the dogs ???
– user5202
Jun 17 at 13:46
@user5202 probobly they were rewadered (how do you know that only dogs?)
– hazoriz
Jun 17 at 14:23
add a comment |
Rabbi Shafier of The Shmuz asks this question in one of the pieces from Parshas Mishpatim.
The gist of his answer (although I'd recommend reading it directly, it's not too long of an article) is a two step answer: 1) all results come about from Hashem, even though a person puts intent into their actions, ultimately no results would come about from the actions if Hashem didn't will for the results to come about. 2) Nevertheless, Hashem set up the reward system to work in a way where a person gets rewarded for the good that comes about for their actions, even though the results were all from Hashem.
Tying that idea back to your question:
Through the animals a greater good was brought, and for that they
deserve reward. Granted they didn’t intend it — they are animals — but
through them came a good, and that is attributed to them. For that,
they deserve reward.
answered Jun 16 at 21:23
Salmononius2Salmononius2
4,29713 silver badges31 bronze badges
Very good answer from Rabbi Shafier, thanks for pointing out ! But if his statement is true, why didn't the wild animals that brought the 4th plague to Egypt - bringing a massive kidush Hashem - were not rewarded ?! Why only the dogs ???
– user5202
Jun 17 at 13:46
@user5202 probobly they were rewadered (how do you know that only dogs?)
– hazoriz
Jun 17 at 14:23
add a comment |
Rabbi Shafier of The Shmuz asks this question in one of the pieces from Parshas Mishpatim.
The gist of his answer (although I'd recommend reading it directly, it's not too long of an article) is a two step answer: 1) all results come about from Hashem, even though a person puts intent into their actions, ultimately no results would come about from the actions if Hashem didn't will for the results to come about. 2) Nevertheless, Hashem set up the reward system to work in a way where a person gets rewarded for the good that comes about for their actions, even though the results were all from Hashem.
Tying that idea back to your question:
Through the animals a greater good was brought, and for that they
deserve reward. Granted they didn’t intend it — they are animals — but
through them came a good, and that is attributed to them. For that,
they deserve reward.
answered Jun 16 at 21:23
Salmononius2Salmononius2
4,29713 silver badges31 bronze badges
Rabbi Shafier of The Shmuz asks this question in one of the pieces from Parshas Mishpatim.
The gist of his answer (although I'd recommend reading it directly, it's not too long of an article) is a two step answer: 1) all results come about from Hashem, even though a person puts intent into their actions, ultimately no results would come about from the actions if Hashem didn't will for the results to come about. 2) Nevertheless, Hashem set up the reward system to work in a way where a person gets rewarded for the good that comes about for their actions, even though the results were all from Hashem.
Tying that idea back to your question:
Through the animals a greater good was brought, and for that they
deserve reward. Granted they didn’t intend it — they are animals — but
through them came a good, and that is attributed to them. For that,
they deserve reward.
answered Jun 16 at 21:23
Salmononius2Salmononius2
4,29713 silver badges31 bronze badges
answered Jun 16 at 21:23
Salmononius2Salmononius2
4,29713 silver badges31 bronze badges
answered Jun 16 at 21:23
Salmononius2Salmononius2
4,29713 silver badges31 bronze badges
answered Jun 16 at 21:23
Salmononius2Salmononius2
4,29713 silver badges31 bronze badges
4,29713 silver badges31 bronze badges
Very good answer from Rabbi Shafier, thanks for pointing out ! But if his statement is true, why didn't the wild animals that brought the 4th plague to Egypt - bringing a massive kidush Hashem - were not rewarded ?! Why only the dogs ???
– user5202
Jun 17 at 13:46
@user5202 probobly they were rewadered (how do you know that only dogs?)
– hazoriz
Jun 17 at 14:23
add a comment |
Very good answer from Rabbi Shafier, thanks for pointing out ! But if his statement is true, why didn't the wild animals that brought the 4th plague to Egypt - bringing a massive kidush Hashem - were not rewarded ?! Why only the dogs ???
– user5202
Jun 17 at 13:46
@user5202 probobly they were rewadered (how do you know that only dogs?)
– hazoriz
Jun 17 at 14:23
Very good answer from Rabbi Shafier, thanks for pointing out ! But if his statement is true, why didn't the wild animals that brought the 4th plague to Egypt - bringing a massive kidush Hashem - were not rewarded ?! Why only the dogs ???
– user5202
Jun 17 at 13:46
Very good answer from Rabbi Shafier, thanks for pointing out ! But if his statement is true, why didn't the wild animals that brought the 4th plague to Egypt - bringing a massive kidush Hashem - were not rewarded ?! Why only the dogs ???
– user5202
Jun 17 at 13:46
@user5202 probobly they were rewadered (how do you know that only dogs?)
– hazoriz
Jun 17 at 14:23
@user5202 probobly they were rewadered (how do you know that only dogs?)
– hazoriz
Jun 17 at 14:23
add a comment |
Free will and reward are not related,
for example, The Moon was punished for complaining.
It is just that G-d Almighty is just.
Is someone deserves good he should get it.
For example parents (even those that exploit their children) deserve respect.
Fruit Trees deserve respect (they should not be destroyed)
Animals deserve respect (even from non-jews) and meat separated from them while they were alive should not be eaten
edited Jun 16 at 21:15
Al Berko
7,7652 gold badges6 silver badges31 bronze badges
answered Jun 16 at 20:58
hazorizhazoriz
2,6772 gold badges10 silver badges38 bronze badges
add a comment |
Free will and reward are not related,
for example, The Moon was punished for complaining.
It is just that G-d Almighty is just.
Is someone deserves good he should get it.
For example parents (even those that exploit their children) deserve respect.
Fruit Trees deserve respect (they should not be destroyed)
Animals deserve respect (even from non-jews) and meat separated from them while they were alive should not be eaten
edited Jun 16 at 21:15
Al Berko
7,7652 gold badges6 silver badges31 bronze badges
answered Jun 16 at 20:58
hazorizhazoriz
2,6772 gold badges10 silver badges38 bronze badges
add a comment |
Free will and reward are not related,
for example, The Moon was punished for complaining.
It is just that G-d Almighty is just.
Is someone deserves good he should get it.
For example parents (even those that exploit their children) deserve respect.
Fruit Trees deserve respect (they should not be destroyed)
Animals deserve respect (even from non-jews) and meat separated from them while they were alive should not be eaten
edited Jun 16 at 21:15
Al Berko
7,7652 gold badges6 silver badges31 bronze badges
answered Jun 16 at 20:58
hazorizhazoriz
2,6772 gold badges10 silver badges38 bronze badges
Free will and reward are not related,
for example, The Moon was punished for complaining.
It is just that G-d Almighty is just.
Is someone deserves good he should get it.
For example parents (even those that exploit their children) deserve respect.
Fruit Trees deserve respect (they should not be destroyed)
Animals deserve respect (even from non-jews) and meat separated from them while they were alive should not be eaten
edited Jun 16 at 21:15
Al Berko
7,7652 gold badges6 silver badges31 bronze badges
answered Jun 16 at 20:58
hazorizhazoriz
2,6772 gold badges10 silver badges38 bronze badges
edited Jun 16 at 21:15
Al Berko
7,7652 gold badges6 silver badges31 bronze badges
edited Jun 16 at 21:15
Al Berko
7,7652 gold badges6 silver badges31 bronze badges
edited Jun 16 at 21:15
Al Berko
7,7652 gold badges6 silver badges31 bronze badges
7,7652 gold badges6 silver badges31 bronze badges
answered Jun 16 at 20:58
hazorizhazoriz
2,6772 gold badges10 silver badges38 bronze badges
answered Jun 16 at 20:58
hazorizhazoriz
2,6772 gold badges10 silver badges38 bronze badges
answered Jun 16 at 20:58
hazorizhazoriz
2,6772 gold badges10 silver badges38 bronze badges
2,6772 gold badges10 silver badges38 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
2
Why do you think animals don't have free will?
– Double AA♦
Jun 16 at 16:27
@RubinhoBrasil Positive reinforcement is a training technique to encourage particular behavior. It works with most creatures, even insects, reptiles & amphibians. It doesn’t involve free choice. That remains solely in the domain of human beings according to the Torah.
– Yaacov Deane
Jun 16 at 16:33
2
Welcome to Mi Yodeya! Thank you for your question. We hope you stick around.
– LN6595
Jun 16 at 16:34
@Yaacov Deane, what do you mean with positive reinforcement? Dogs didn't bakr at the Jews in Egypt and nowadyas in America we give them non-kosher meat. How is this positive reinforcement?
– user5202
Jun 16 at 16:39
1
It is crucial to understand the nature of educational statements of our Sages. They don't reflect the absolute truth as you expect, instead, they educate us to see G-d's good attributes in many different situations.
– Al Berko
Jun 16 at 21:38