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Was there ever a difference between 'volo' and 'volo'?
What evidence is there for volēre over volere?Was the plural future imperative ever used?What's the difference between mutantur and mutamur?Was there ever dual conjugation in Latin?What is the difference between sum and existo?GalliJa? Was “i” between consonant and vowel pronounced “ij”?What’s the difference between meminisse and memini?Is there a difference between prose stress and metric stress?Is the palatalization of “d” between “a”, “i” or “o” and “ie” or “iu” only a Medieval Latin phenomenon?Difference between “immergo” and “summergo”When did the difference between acute and grave disappear?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
The words "I want" and "I fly" are both volō.
Was there ever any difference in pronunciation in the classical era or later?
I expect such differences to be more likely in vulgar Latin.
The rest of the forms of these two words differ, so the question only concerns this particular form.
This question arises from Italian, where the two forms are voglio and volo.
This -gli- instead of -l- may well be due to interference with other forms of the irregular verb, but it could also be a reflex of a difference that developed within Latin.
If there is no such difference, then the distinction must be a Romance or Italian invention.
I am not aware of any differences in pronunciation between the two volō's, but I've been surprised before.
verbs pronunciation language-evolution vulgar-latin italian
asked Aug 8 at 11:42
Joonas Ilmavirta♦Joonas Ilmavirta
52.1k12 gold badges74 silver badges310 bronze badges
add a comment |
The words "I want" and "I fly" are both volō.
Was there ever any difference in pronunciation in the classical era or later?
I expect such differences to be more likely in vulgar Latin.
The rest of the forms of these two words differ, so the question only concerns this particular form.
This question arises from Italian, where the two forms are voglio and volo.
This -gli- instead of -l- may well be due to interference with other forms of the irregular verb, but it could also be a reflex of a difference that developed within Latin.
If there is no such difference, then the distinction must be a Romance or Italian invention.
I am not aware of any differences in pronunciation between the two volō's, but I've been surprised before.
verbs pronunciation language-evolution vulgar-latin italian
asked Aug 8 at 11:42
Joonas Ilmavirta♦Joonas Ilmavirta
52.1k12 gold badges74 silver badges310 bronze badges
add a comment |
The words "I want" and "I fly" are both volō.
Was there ever any difference in pronunciation in the classical era or later?
I expect such differences to be more likely in vulgar Latin.
The rest of the forms of these two words differ, so the question only concerns this particular form.
This question arises from Italian, where the two forms are voglio and volo.
This -gli- instead of -l- may well be due to interference with other forms of the irregular verb, but it could also be a reflex of a difference that developed within Latin.
If there is no such difference, then the distinction must be a Romance or Italian invention.
I am not aware of any differences in pronunciation between the two volō's, but I've been surprised before.
verbs pronunciation language-evolution vulgar-latin italian
asked Aug 8 at 11:42
Joonas Ilmavirta♦Joonas Ilmavirta
52.1k12 gold badges74 silver badges310 bronze badges
The words "I want" and "I fly" are both volō.
Was there ever any difference in pronunciation in the classical era or later?
I expect such differences to be more likely in vulgar Latin.
The rest of the forms of these two words differ, so the question only concerns this particular form.
This question arises from Italian, where the two forms are voglio and volo.
This -gli- instead of -l- may well be due to interference with other forms of the irregular verb, but it could also be a reflex of a difference that developed within Latin.
If there is no such difference, then the distinction must be a Romance or Italian invention.
I am not aware of any differences in pronunciation between the two volō's, but I've been surprised before.
verbs pronunciation language-evolution vulgar-latin italian
verbs pronunciation language-evolution vulgar-latin italian
asked Aug 8 at 11:42
Joonas Ilmavirta♦Joonas Ilmavirta
52.1k12 gold badges74 silver badges310 bronze badges
asked Aug 8 at 11:42
Joonas Ilmavirta♦Joonas Ilmavirta
52.1k12 gold badges74 silver badges310 bronze badges
edited Aug 8 at 19:39
Joonas Ilmavirta
asked Aug 8 at 11:42
Joonas Ilmavirta♦Joonas Ilmavirta
52.1k12 gold badges74 silver badges310 bronze badges
asked Aug 8 at 11:42
Joonas Ilmavirta♦Joonas Ilmavirta
52.1k12 gold badges74 silver badges310 bronze badges
asked Aug 8 at 11:42
Joonas Ilmavirta♦Joonas Ilmavirta
52.1k12 gold badges74 silver badges310 bronze badges
52.1k12 gold badges74 silver badges310 bronze badges
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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The Wiktionary article on Italian volere says that, as the infinitive suggests, the verb was moved to the second conjugation in Vulgar Latin, so it traces it to a "Vulgar Latin *volēre". The -gli- in voglio would come from -le- before a vowel (through steps something like [le] > [lj] > [ʎː]), as in Italian paglia from Latin palea. I don't see any indication that the form volō "I want" ever had a distinct pronunciation from the form volō "I fly" in Classical Latin.
answered Aug 8 at 12:14
sumelicsumelic
10.3k1 gold badge25 silver badges65 bronze badges
Thanks! So it'd be safe to say that "I want" is conjectured to have evolved from volo (irregular) to *voleo (second conjugation) in vulgar Latin (but not attested), giving rise to the difference in Italian? That'd give a more definitive answer concerning the differences within Latin (classical or later).
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Aug 8 at 12:20
@JoonasIlmavirta: Yes, *voleō is marked with an asterisk in Wiktionary, which should mean that it is unattested. I don't know of any evidence about the identity of the two pronunciations in Latin (aside from the obvious identity in spelling and vowel quantity). I'm just defaulting to assuming that they were pronounced the same. Perhaps someone can find a pun on the two senses, or some source that explicitly says that they're homophones.
– sumelic
Aug 8 at 12:22
Do you a linguistic source that says that -gli- comes from -le- + vowel? I can think of a few counterexamples (famiglia*/*figlio from-li-).
– brianpck
Aug 8 at 12:25
2
@brianpck: What I meant is that -le- is one of the sources of -gli-, not the only one. At some point, unstressed -e- before a vowel merged into -i- in many words; words affected by that merger would naturally have the same development from that point on as words with original -i-. The second conjugation theme vowel is originally e, not i, which is why I said "-le- before a vowel", but the Wiktionary entry does in fact show the reconstruction with -li- for the ancestor of Italo-Western Romance.
– sumelic
Aug 8 at 12:30
add a comment |
volō can indeed mean either “I want” or “I fly”, but the other forms of the two words are different (e.g. infinitive velle vs volāre), so they were definitely perceived as different words and this difference is expanded in Romance. Like Italian, French also has vouloir < *volēre and voler < volāre. The infinitive *volēre is not attested as such, but it is implied by the Vulgar Latin gerundive volendi (Augustine no less). Much information here: https://www.cnrtl.fr/etymologie/vouloir at the end of the article.
answered Aug 8 at 12:52
fdbfdb
11.8k1 gold badge12 silver badges29 bronze badges
4
I may be missing something, but volendi could be a third conjugation form so doesn't necessarily imply voleo.
– TKR
Aug 8 at 20:52
@TKR exactly: ferre~ferens~ferendus : velle~volens~X > volendus
– Unbrutal_Russian
Aug 9 at 10:43
Yes, I took this from the cnrtl site. Either they got something wrong, or I did not understand it.
– fdb
Aug 9 at 11:44
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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The Wiktionary article on Italian volere says that, as the infinitive suggests, the verb was moved to the second conjugation in Vulgar Latin, so it traces it to a "Vulgar Latin *volēre". The -gli- in voglio would come from -le- before a vowel (through steps something like [le] > [lj] > [ʎː]), as in Italian paglia from Latin palea. I don't see any indication that the form volō "I want" ever had a distinct pronunciation from the form volō "I fly" in Classical Latin.
answered Aug 8 at 12:14
sumelicsumelic
10.3k1 gold badge25 silver badges65 bronze badges
Thanks! So it'd be safe to say that "I want" is conjectured to have evolved from volo (irregular) to *voleo (second conjugation) in vulgar Latin (but not attested), giving rise to the difference in Italian? That'd give a more definitive answer concerning the differences within Latin (classical or later).
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Aug 8 at 12:20
@JoonasIlmavirta: Yes, *voleō is marked with an asterisk in Wiktionary, which should mean that it is unattested. I don't know of any evidence about the identity of the two pronunciations in Latin (aside from the obvious identity in spelling and vowel quantity). I'm just defaulting to assuming that they were pronounced the same. Perhaps someone can find a pun on the two senses, or some source that explicitly says that they're homophones.
– sumelic
Aug 8 at 12:22
Do you a linguistic source that says that -gli- comes from -le- + vowel? I can think of a few counterexamples (famiglia*/*figlio from-li-).
– brianpck
Aug 8 at 12:25
2
@brianpck: What I meant is that -le- is one of the sources of -gli-, not the only one. At some point, unstressed -e- before a vowel merged into -i- in many words; words affected by that merger would naturally have the same development from that point on as words with original -i-. The second conjugation theme vowel is originally e, not i, which is why I said "-le- before a vowel", but the Wiktionary entry does in fact show the reconstruction with -li- for the ancestor of Italo-Western Romance.
– sumelic
Aug 8 at 12:30
add a comment |
The Wiktionary article on Italian volere says that, as the infinitive suggests, the verb was moved to the second conjugation in Vulgar Latin, so it traces it to a "Vulgar Latin *volēre". The -gli- in voglio would come from -le- before a vowel (through steps something like [le] > [lj] > [ʎː]), as in Italian paglia from Latin palea. I don't see any indication that the form volō "I want" ever had a distinct pronunciation from the form volō "I fly" in Classical Latin.
answered Aug 8 at 12:14
sumelicsumelic
10.3k1 gold badge25 silver badges65 bronze badges
Thanks! So it'd be safe to say that "I want" is conjectured to have evolved from volo (irregular) to *voleo (second conjugation) in vulgar Latin (but not attested), giving rise to the difference in Italian? That'd give a more definitive answer concerning the differences within Latin (classical or later).
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Aug 8 at 12:20
@JoonasIlmavirta: Yes, *voleō is marked with an asterisk in Wiktionary, which should mean that it is unattested. I don't know of any evidence about the identity of the two pronunciations in Latin (aside from the obvious identity in spelling and vowel quantity). I'm just defaulting to assuming that they were pronounced the same. Perhaps someone can find a pun on the two senses, or some source that explicitly says that they're homophones.
– sumelic
Aug 8 at 12:22
Do you a linguistic source that says that -gli- comes from -le- + vowel? I can think of a few counterexamples (famiglia*/*figlio from-li-).
– brianpck
Aug 8 at 12:25
2
@brianpck: What I meant is that -le- is one of the sources of -gli-, not the only one. At some point, unstressed -e- before a vowel merged into -i- in many words; words affected by that merger would naturally have the same development from that point on as words with original -i-. The second conjugation theme vowel is originally e, not i, which is why I said "-le- before a vowel", but the Wiktionary entry does in fact show the reconstruction with -li- for the ancestor of Italo-Western Romance.
– sumelic
Aug 8 at 12:30
add a comment |
The Wiktionary article on Italian volere says that, as the infinitive suggests, the verb was moved to the second conjugation in Vulgar Latin, so it traces it to a "Vulgar Latin *volēre". The -gli- in voglio would come from -le- before a vowel (through steps something like [le] > [lj] > [ʎː]), as in Italian paglia from Latin palea. I don't see any indication that the form volō "I want" ever had a distinct pronunciation from the form volō "I fly" in Classical Latin.
answered Aug 8 at 12:14
sumelicsumelic
10.3k1 gold badge25 silver badges65 bronze badges
The Wiktionary article on Italian volere says that, as the infinitive suggests, the verb was moved to the second conjugation in Vulgar Latin, so it traces it to a "Vulgar Latin *volēre". The -gli- in voglio would come from -le- before a vowel (through steps something like [le] > [lj] > [ʎː]), as in Italian paglia from Latin palea. I don't see any indication that the form volō "I want" ever had a distinct pronunciation from the form volō "I fly" in Classical Latin.
answered Aug 8 at 12:14
sumelicsumelic
10.3k1 gold badge25 silver badges65 bronze badges
edited Aug 8 at 13:38
answered Aug 8 at 12:14
sumelicsumelic
10.3k1 gold badge25 silver badges65 bronze badges
answered Aug 8 at 12:14
sumelicsumelic
10.3k1 gold badge25 silver badges65 bronze badges
answered Aug 8 at 12:14
sumelicsumelic
10.3k1 gold badge25 silver badges65 bronze badges
10.3k1 gold badge25 silver badges65 bronze badges
Thanks! So it'd be safe to say that "I want" is conjectured to have evolved from volo (irregular) to *voleo (second conjugation) in vulgar Latin (but not attested), giving rise to the difference in Italian? That'd give a more definitive answer concerning the differences within Latin (classical or later).
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Aug 8 at 12:20
@JoonasIlmavirta: Yes, *voleō is marked with an asterisk in Wiktionary, which should mean that it is unattested. I don't know of any evidence about the identity of the two pronunciations in Latin (aside from the obvious identity in spelling and vowel quantity). I'm just defaulting to assuming that they were pronounced the same. Perhaps someone can find a pun on the two senses, or some source that explicitly says that they're homophones.
– sumelic
Aug 8 at 12:22
Do you a linguistic source that says that -gli- comes from -le- + vowel? I can think of a few counterexamples (famiglia*/*figlio from-li-).
– brianpck
Aug 8 at 12:25
2
@brianpck: What I meant is that -le- is one of the sources of -gli-, not the only one. At some point, unstressed -e- before a vowel merged into -i- in many words; words affected by that merger would naturally have the same development from that point on as words with original -i-. The second conjugation theme vowel is originally e, not i, which is why I said "-le- before a vowel", but the Wiktionary entry does in fact show the reconstruction with -li- for the ancestor of Italo-Western Romance.
– sumelic
Aug 8 at 12:30
add a comment |
Thanks! So it'd be safe to say that "I want" is conjectured to have evolved from volo (irregular) to *voleo (second conjugation) in vulgar Latin (but not attested), giving rise to the difference in Italian? That'd give a more definitive answer concerning the differences within Latin (classical or later).
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Aug 8 at 12:20
@JoonasIlmavirta: Yes, *voleō is marked with an asterisk in Wiktionary, which should mean that it is unattested. I don't know of any evidence about the identity of the two pronunciations in Latin (aside from the obvious identity in spelling and vowel quantity). I'm just defaulting to assuming that they were pronounced the same. Perhaps someone can find a pun on the two senses, or some source that explicitly says that they're homophones.
– sumelic
Aug 8 at 12:22
Do you a linguistic source that says that -gli- comes from -le- + vowel? I can think of a few counterexamples (famiglia*/*figlio from-li-).
– brianpck
Aug 8 at 12:25
2
@brianpck: What I meant is that -le- is one of the sources of -gli-, not the only one. At some point, unstressed -e- before a vowel merged into -i- in many words; words affected by that merger would naturally have the same development from that point on as words with original -i-. The second conjugation theme vowel is originally e, not i, which is why I said "-le- before a vowel", but the Wiktionary entry does in fact show the reconstruction with -li- for the ancestor of Italo-Western Romance.
– sumelic
Aug 8 at 12:30
Thanks! So it'd be safe to say that "I want" is conjectured to have evolved from volo (irregular) to *voleo (second conjugation) in vulgar Latin (but not attested), giving rise to the difference in Italian? That'd give a more definitive answer concerning the differences within Latin (classical or later).
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Aug 8 at 12:20
Thanks! So it'd be safe to say that "I want" is conjectured to have evolved from volo (irregular) to *voleo (second conjugation) in vulgar Latin (but not attested), giving rise to the difference in Italian? That'd give a more definitive answer concerning the differences within Latin (classical or later).
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Aug 8 at 12:20
@JoonasIlmavirta: Yes, *voleō is marked with an asterisk in Wiktionary, which should mean that it is unattested. I don't know of any evidence about the identity of the two pronunciations in Latin (aside from the obvious identity in spelling and vowel quantity). I'm just defaulting to assuming that they were pronounced the same. Perhaps someone can find a pun on the two senses, or some source that explicitly says that they're homophones.
– sumelic
Aug 8 at 12:22
@JoonasIlmavirta: Yes, *voleō is marked with an asterisk in Wiktionary, which should mean that it is unattested. I don't know of any evidence about the identity of the two pronunciations in Latin (aside from the obvious identity in spelling and vowel quantity). I'm just defaulting to assuming that they were pronounced the same. Perhaps someone can find a pun on the two senses, or some source that explicitly says that they're homophones.
– sumelic
Aug 8 at 12:22
Do you a linguistic source that says that -gli- comes from -le- + vowel? I can think of a few counterexamples (famiglia*/*figlio from-li-).
– brianpck
Aug 8 at 12:25
Do you a linguistic source that says that -gli- comes from -le- + vowel? I can think of a few counterexamples (famiglia*/*figlio from-li-).
– brianpck
Aug 8 at 12:25
2
2
@brianpck: What I meant is that -le- is one of the sources of -gli-, not the only one. At some point, unstressed -e- before a vowel merged into -i- in many words; words affected by that merger would naturally have the same development from that point on as words with original -i-. The second conjugation theme vowel is originally e, not i, which is why I said "-le- before a vowel", but the Wiktionary entry does in fact show the reconstruction with -li- for the ancestor of Italo-Western Romance.
– sumelic
Aug 8 at 12:30
@brianpck: What I meant is that -le- is one of the sources of -gli-, not the only one. At some point, unstressed -e- before a vowel merged into -i- in many words; words affected by that merger would naturally have the same development from that point on as words with original -i-. The second conjugation theme vowel is originally e, not i, which is why I said "-le- before a vowel", but the Wiktionary entry does in fact show the reconstruction with -li- for the ancestor of Italo-Western Romance.
– sumelic
Aug 8 at 12:30
add a comment |
volō can indeed mean either “I want” or “I fly”, but the other forms of the two words are different (e.g. infinitive velle vs volāre), so they were definitely perceived as different words and this difference is expanded in Romance. Like Italian, French also has vouloir < *volēre and voler < volāre. The infinitive *volēre is not attested as such, but it is implied by the Vulgar Latin gerundive volendi (Augustine no less). Much information here: https://www.cnrtl.fr/etymologie/vouloir at the end of the article.
answered Aug 8 at 12:52
fdbfdb
11.8k1 gold badge12 silver badges29 bronze badges
4
I may be missing something, but volendi could be a third conjugation form so doesn't necessarily imply voleo.
– TKR
Aug 8 at 20:52
@TKR exactly: ferre~ferens~ferendus : velle~volens~X > volendus
– Unbrutal_Russian
Aug 9 at 10:43
Yes, I took this from the cnrtl site. Either they got something wrong, or I did not understand it.
– fdb
Aug 9 at 11:44
add a comment |
volō can indeed mean either “I want” or “I fly”, but the other forms of the two words are different (e.g. infinitive velle vs volāre), so they were definitely perceived as different words and this difference is expanded in Romance. Like Italian, French also has vouloir < *volēre and voler < volāre. The infinitive *volēre is not attested as such, but it is implied by the Vulgar Latin gerundive volendi (Augustine no less). Much information here: https://www.cnrtl.fr/etymologie/vouloir at the end of the article.
answered Aug 8 at 12:52
fdbfdb
11.8k1 gold badge12 silver badges29 bronze badges
4
I may be missing something, but volendi could be a third conjugation form so doesn't necessarily imply voleo.
– TKR
Aug 8 at 20:52
@TKR exactly: ferre~ferens~ferendus : velle~volens~X > volendus
– Unbrutal_Russian
Aug 9 at 10:43
Yes, I took this from the cnrtl site. Either they got something wrong, or I did not understand it.
– fdb
Aug 9 at 11:44
add a comment |
volō can indeed mean either “I want” or “I fly”, but the other forms of the two words are different (e.g. infinitive velle vs volāre), so they were definitely perceived as different words and this difference is expanded in Romance. Like Italian, French also has vouloir < *volēre and voler < volāre. The infinitive *volēre is not attested as such, but it is implied by the Vulgar Latin gerundive volendi (Augustine no less). Much information here: https://www.cnrtl.fr/etymologie/vouloir at the end of the article.
answered Aug 8 at 12:52
fdbfdb
11.8k1 gold badge12 silver badges29 bronze badges
volō can indeed mean either “I want” or “I fly”, but the other forms of the two words are different (e.g. infinitive velle vs volāre), so they were definitely perceived as different words and this difference is expanded in Romance. Like Italian, French also has vouloir < *volēre and voler < volāre. The infinitive *volēre is not attested as such, but it is implied by the Vulgar Latin gerundive volendi (Augustine no less). Much information here: https://www.cnrtl.fr/etymologie/vouloir at the end of the article.
answered Aug 8 at 12:52
fdbfdb
11.8k1 gold badge12 silver badges29 bronze badges
answered Aug 8 at 12:52
fdbfdb
11.8k1 gold badge12 silver badges29 bronze badges
answered Aug 8 at 12:52
fdbfdb
11.8k1 gold badge12 silver badges29 bronze badges
answered Aug 8 at 12:52
fdbfdb
11.8k1 gold badge12 silver badges29 bronze badges
11.8k1 gold badge12 silver badges29 bronze badges
4
I may be missing something, but volendi could be a third conjugation form so doesn't necessarily imply voleo.
– TKR
Aug 8 at 20:52
@TKR exactly: ferre~ferens~ferendus : velle~volens~X > volendus
– Unbrutal_Russian
Aug 9 at 10:43
Yes, I took this from the cnrtl site. Either they got something wrong, or I did not understand it.
– fdb
Aug 9 at 11:44
add a comment |
4
I may be missing something, but volendi could be a third conjugation form so doesn't necessarily imply voleo.
– TKR
Aug 8 at 20:52
@TKR exactly: ferre~ferens~ferendus : velle~volens~X > volendus
– Unbrutal_Russian
Aug 9 at 10:43
Yes, I took this from the cnrtl site. Either they got something wrong, or I did not understand it.
– fdb
Aug 9 at 11:44
4
4
I may be missing something, but volendi could be a third conjugation form so doesn't necessarily imply voleo.
– TKR
Aug 8 at 20:52
I may be missing something, but volendi could be a third conjugation form so doesn't necessarily imply voleo.
– TKR
Aug 8 at 20:52
@TKR exactly: ferre~ferens~ferendus : velle~volens~X > volendus
– Unbrutal_Russian
Aug 9 at 10:43
@TKR exactly: ferre~ferens~ferendus : velle~volens~X > volendus
– Unbrutal_Russian
Aug 9 at 10:43
Yes, I took this from the cnrtl site. Either they got something wrong, or I did not understand it.
– fdb
Aug 9 at 11:44
Yes, I took this from the cnrtl site. Either they got something wrong, or I did not understand it.
– fdb
Aug 9 at 11:44
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