How is צָרַעַת (skin disease) like snow?Pesach/Passover Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern) Best answer contest: Second quarter of 5779 To celebrate Mi Yodeya's tenth birthday, let's divide and conquer the entire…Can one Tovel dishes in snow?How does deep snow affect carrying on Shabbos?How to respond to a non-Jew who asks to shovel your snow on shabbos?Is snow Kosher? Icicles?Purpose of Gilgulei Sheleg (rolling in snow)Meaning of snowHow much snow for tevilah?Different type of blessing for rain and snowThe custom of putting the first snow on forehead?Shoveling snow on to the neighbor's lawn or the street

Is there a documented rationale why the House Ways and Means chairman can demand tax info?

Withdrew £2800, but only £2000 shows as withdrawn on online banking; what are my obligations?

Is above average number of years spent on PhD considered a red flag in future academia or industry positions?

I am not a queen, who am I?

How can players work together to take actions that are otherwise impossible?

If Jon Snow became King of the Seven Kingdoms what would his regnal number be?

Why did the IBM 650 use bi-quinary?

List *all* the tuples!

Is there a "higher Segal conjecture"?

How can I make names more distinctive without making them longer?

Stars Make Stars

G-Code for resetting to 100% speed

What does the "x" in "x86" represent?

Is 1 ppb equal to 1 μg/kg?

Why is "Captain Marvel" translated as male in Portugal?

How to bypass password on Windows XP account?

Right-skewed distribution with mean equals to mode?

If 'B is more likely given A', then 'A is more likely given B'

Doubts about chords

What is this single-engine low-wing propeller plane?

How does a Death Domain cleric's Touch of Death feature work with Touch-range spells delivered by familiars?

How to recreate this effect in Photoshop?

What happens to sewage if there is no river near by?

What is a Meta algorithm?



How is צָרַעַת (skin disease) like snow?



Pesach/Passover
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)
Best answer contest: Second quarter of 5779
To celebrate Mi Yodeya's tenth birthday, let's divide and conquer the entire…Can one Tovel dishes in snow?How does deep snow affect carrying on Shabbos?How to respond to a non-Jew who asks to shovel your snow on shabbos?Is snow Kosher? Icicles?Purpose of Gilgulei Sheleg (rolling in snow)Meaning of snowHow much snow for tevilah?Different type of blessing for rain and snowThe custom of putting the first snow on forehead?Shoveling snow on to the neighbor's lawn or the street










3















צָרַעַת, traditionally translated as leprosy, (perhaps skin disease is more accurate) is compared to snow in three locations:




Exodus 4:6 (ESV) 6 Again, the Lord said to him, "Put your hand inside
your cloak." And he put his hand inside his cloak, and when he took it
out, behold, his hand was leprous like snow.



Numbers 12:10 (ESV) 10 When the cloud removed from over the tent,
behold, Miriam was leprous, like snow. And Aaron turned toward Miriam,
and behold, she was leprous.



2 Kings 5:27 (ESV) 27 Therefore the leprosy of Naaman shall cling to
you and to your descendants forever." So he went out from his presence
a leper, like snow.




Some versions, such as the NIV, translate “white as snow” although the Hebrew lacks the word “white”.



Regarding this comparison, the IVP Bible Background Commentary Old Testament on 2 Kings 5:27 states:




Comparison to "snow" most likely concerns the flakiness rather than
the color.




How is leprosy like snow? Its color, its flakiness, or both? And what is the evidence for making such a claim that it only refers to its flakiness?










share|improve this question
























  • This should be asked on BH.SE

    – רבות מחשבות
    11 hours ago











  • @רבותמחשבות I have asked this question on BH.SE as well

    – למה זה תשאל לשמי
    55 mins ago















3















צָרַעַת, traditionally translated as leprosy, (perhaps skin disease is more accurate) is compared to snow in three locations:




Exodus 4:6 (ESV) 6 Again, the Lord said to him, "Put your hand inside
your cloak." And he put his hand inside his cloak, and when he took it
out, behold, his hand was leprous like snow.



Numbers 12:10 (ESV) 10 When the cloud removed from over the tent,
behold, Miriam was leprous, like snow. And Aaron turned toward Miriam,
and behold, she was leprous.



2 Kings 5:27 (ESV) 27 Therefore the leprosy of Naaman shall cling to
you and to your descendants forever." So he went out from his presence
a leper, like snow.




Some versions, such as the NIV, translate “white as snow” although the Hebrew lacks the word “white”.



Regarding this comparison, the IVP Bible Background Commentary Old Testament on 2 Kings 5:27 states:




Comparison to "snow" most likely concerns the flakiness rather than
the color.




How is leprosy like snow? Its color, its flakiness, or both? And what is the evidence for making such a claim that it only refers to its flakiness?










share|improve this question
























  • This should be asked on BH.SE

    – רבות מחשבות
    11 hours ago











  • @רבותמחשבות I have asked this question on BH.SE as well

    – למה זה תשאל לשמי
    55 mins ago













3












3








3








צָרַעַת, traditionally translated as leprosy, (perhaps skin disease is more accurate) is compared to snow in three locations:




Exodus 4:6 (ESV) 6 Again, the Lord said to him, "Put your hand inside
your cloak." And he put his hand inside his cloak, and when he took it
out, behold, his hand was leprous like snow.



Numbers 12:10 (ESV) 10 When the cloud removed from over the tent,
behold, Miriam was leprous, like snow. And Aaron turned toward Miriam,
and behold, she was leprous.



2 Kings 5:27 (ESV) 27 Therefore the leprosy of Naaman shall cling to
you and to your descendants forever." So he went out from his presence
a leper, like snow.




Some versions, such as the NIV, translate “white as snow” although the Hebrew lacks the word “white”.



Regarding this comparison, the IVP Bible Background Commentary Old Testament on 2 Kings 5:27 states:




Comparison to "snow" most likely concerns the flakiness rather than
the color.




How is leprosy like snow? Its color, its flakiness, or both? And what is the evidence for making such a claim that it only refers to its flakiness?










share|improve this question
















צָרַעַת, traditionally translated as leprosy, (perhaps skin disease is more accurate) is compared to snow in three locations:




Exodus 4:6 (ESV) 6 Again, the Lord said to him, "Put your hand inside
your cloak." And he put his hand inside his cloak, and when he took it
out, behold, his hand was leprous like snow.



Numbers 12:10 (ESV) 10 When the cloud removed from over the tent,
behold, Miriam was leprous, like snow. And Aaron turned toward Miriam,
and behold, she was leprous.



2 Kings 5:27 (ESV) 27 Therefore the leprosy of Naaman shall cling to
you and to your descendants forever." So he went out from his presence
a leper, like snow.




Some versions, such as the NIV, translate “white as snow” although the Hebrew lacks the word “white”.



Regarding this comparison, the IVP Bible Background Commentary Old Testament on 2 Kings 5:27 states:




Comparison to "snow" most likely concerns the flakiness rather than
the color.




How is leprosy like snow? Its color, its flakiness, or both? And what is the evidence for making such a claim that it only refers to its flakiness?







tzaraas-negaim snow






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 14 hours ago









msh210

48.6k1191290




48.6k1191290










asked yesterday









למה זה תשאל לשמילמה זה תשאל לשמי

19914




19914












  • This should be asked on BH.SE

    – רבות מחשבות
    11 hours ago











  • @רבותמחשבות I have asked this question on BH.SE as well

    – למה זה תשאל לשמי
    55 mins ago

















  • This should be asked on BH.SE

    – רבות מחשבות
    11 hours ago











  • @רבותמחשבות I have asked this question on BH.SE as well

    – למה זה תשאל לשמי
    55 mins ago
















This should be asked on BH.SE

– רבות מחשבות
11 hours ago





This should be asked on BH.SE

– רבות מחשבות
11 hours ago













@רבותמחשבות I have asked this question on BH.SE as well

– למה זה תשאל לשמי
55 mins ago





@רבותמחשבות I have asked this question on BH.SE as well

– למה זה תשאל לשמי
55 mins ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















8














According to the first Mishna in Nega'im, the brightest color of Tzara'ath is the white of snow.




מַרְאוֹת נְגָעִים שְׁנַיִם שֶׁהֵן אַרְבָּעָה. בַּהֶרֶת עַזָּה כַשֶּׁלֶג, שְׁנִיָּה לָהּ כְּסִיד הַהֵיכָל. וְהַשְּׂאֵת כִּקְרוּם בֵּיצָה, שְׁנִיָּה לָהּ כְּצֶמֶר לָבָן, דִּבְרֵי רַבִּי מֵאִיר. וַחֲכָמִים אוֹמְרִים, הַשְּׂאֵת כְּצֶמֶר לָבָן, שְׁנִיָּה לָהּ כִּקְרוּם בֵּיצָה:



The appearances of Negaim [diseased patches on skin, clothes, or houses that create impurity] are two which are four: Baheret is bright [white] like snow, its subsidiary is like the lime of the Temple. Se'et is like the membrane of an egg, its subsidiary is like white wool; the words of Rabbi Meir. The Sages say, Se'et is like white wool, its subsidiary is like the membrane of an egg.




When talking about snow, in regards to Tzara'ath, it refers to the whiteness of snow; snow being the whitest white known at the time.



As the Bartenarua there says:




בהרת עזה כשלג. לבנה ביותר. דכתיב (ויקרא י״ג) ואם בהרת לבנה היא, היא לבנה ואין למעלה ממנה לבנה:‏




Back to your quotes:



  • Exodus 4:6 the Targum translates it as וְהָא יְדֵהּ חַוְרָא כְתַלְגָא - and his hand was white as snow. Rashi concurs saying דֶּרֶךְ צָרַעַת לִהְיוֹת לְבָנָה – "וְאִם בַּהֶרֶת לְבָנָה הִיא" - the nature of Tzara'ath is to be white.

  • Numbers 12:10 once again the Targum says וְהָא מִרְיָם חַוְרָא כְּתַלְגָא - and behold Miriam was white like snow.

  • 2 Kings 5:27 once again the Targum says וּנְפַק מִן קֳדָמוֹהִי חִוָר כְּתַלְגָא - and he walked away from him white like snow.

Actually, nowhere do we find that Tzara'ath is flaky. Au contraire, I suspect that if the skin were to become white and flaky then it may not be considered Tzara'ath; but right now I can't prove it.






share|improve this answer




















  • 1





    Any evidence that that's what the verse means, too?

    – msh210
    14 hours ago











  • @msh that's why I downvoted...

    – רבות מחשבות
    14 hours ago











  • @רבותמחשבות - happy, now?

    – Danny Schoemann
    12 hours ago











  • @msh210 - what do you consider evidence? Is Targum sufficient? I've edited the answer.

    – Danny Schoemann
    12 hours ago







  • 1





    If it was flaky it might be hard to describe it as מראהו עמוק מעור בשרו since it's just at the surface

    – Double AA
    12 hours ago


















1














While I'm giving Danny the space to still improve his answer, and agree with his position (see Mendelssohn's Biur here for some discussion of this, and see also Targum Shiv'im here as to whether or not they translate and his hand returned to the color of flesh, although you have to know Old Greek), I wanted to see what support I could find to argue the other point, that the snow describes the scaliness. While at first glance it seems hard to find support, I will do my best.



Shemos 4:6-7 is the case we will examine, and you can extrapolate to other cases (I used the JPS translation not because it translates it in this way, but because it was the first translation available):




וַיֹּאמֶר֩ יְהוָ֨ה ל֜וֹ ע֗וֹד הָֽבֵא־נָ֤א יָֽדְךָ֙ בְּחֵיקֶ֔ךָ וַיָּבֵ֥א יָד֖וֹ בְּחֵיק֑וֹ וַיּ֣וֹצִאָ֔הּ וְהִנֵּ֥ה יָד֖וֹ מְצֹרַ֥עַת כַּשָּֽׁלֶג׃



The LORD said to him further, “Put your hand into your bosom.” He put his hand into his bosom; and when he took it out, his hand was encrusted with snowy scales!




Why might a translator choose to focus on scales rather than on the color? Well, if we look at the following passuk, we see that after returning his hand to his bosom, it returned to look like flesh. While this could be interpreted as the color of flesh, it may simply refer to the look of regular flesh (i.e. not scaled):




וַיֹּ֗אמֶר הָשֵׁ֤ב יָֽדְךָ֙ אֶל־חֵיקֶ֔ךָ וַיָּ֥שֶׁב יָד֖וֹ אֶל־חֵיק֑וֹ וַיּֽוֹצִאָהּ֙ מֵֽחֵיק֔וֹ וְהִנֵּה־שָׁ֖בָה כִּבְשָׂרֽוֹ׃



And He said, “Put your hand back into your bosom.”—He put his hand back into his bosom; and when he took it out of his bosom, there it was again like the rest of his body.—




The only support I can bring for this here is the translation of the Peshitta here, and perhaps the others who stay silent on the issue.



The Peshitta translates our passuk as:




והא אידה מגרבא איך תלגא

and his hand was as "garva" as snow




What does garva mean? Garav, as explained by Rashi to Vayikra 21:20, is a type of dried scaly boil. If so, the simplest read of this Passuk would be to say that his hand was as scaly as snow. (Note that we have no indication that Garav was white.)



However, the Peshitta translates all tzara'as as garva, meaning the meaning of tzara'as is scales/scaly.



Therefore, for all those who translate tzara'at here as leprosy or some other scaly disease (as opposed to Onkelos here, who translates tzara'at as white, as opposed to his regular translation of segira), they would also be understanding the passuk to be saying "and his hand was scaled like snow".






share|improve this answer






























    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    8














    According to the first Mishna in Nega'im, the brightest color of Tzara'ath is the white of snow.




    מַרְאוֹת נְגָעִים שְׁנַיִם שֶׁהֵן אַרְבָּעָה. בַּהֶרֶת עַזָּה כַשֶּׁלֶג, שְׁנִיָּה לָהּ כְּסִיד הַהֵיכָל. וְהַשְּׂאֵת כִּקְרוּם בֵּיצָה, שְׁנִיָּה לָהּ כְּצֶמֶר לָבָן, דִּבְרֵי רַבִּי מֵאִיר. וַחֲכָמִים אוֹמְרִים, הַשְּׂאֵת כְּצֶמֶר לָבָן, שְׁנִיָּה לָהּ כִּקְרוּם בֵּיצָה:



    The appearances of Negaim [diseased patches on skin, clothes, or houses that create impurity] are two which are four: Baheret is bright [white] like snow, its subsidiary is like the lime of the Temple. Se'et is like the membrane of an egg, its subsidiary is like white wool; the words of Rabbi Meir. The Sages say, Se'et is like white wool, its subsidiary is like the membrane of an egg.




    When talking about snow, in regards to Tzara'ath, it refers to the whiteness of snow; snow being the whitest white known at the time.



    As the Bartenarua there says:




    בהרת עזה כשלג. לבנה ביותר. דכתיב (ויקרא י״ג) ואם בהרת לבנה היא, היא לבנה ואין למעלה ממנה לבנה:‏




    Back to your quotes:



    • Exodus 4:6 the Targum translates it as וְהָא יְדֵהּ חַוְרָא כְתַלְגָא - and his hand was white as snow. Rashi concurs saying דֶּרֶךְ צָרַעַת לִהְיוֹת לְבָנָה – "וְאִם בַּהֶרֶת לְבָנָה הִיא" - the nature of Tzara'ath is to be white.

    • Numbers 12:10 once again the Targum says וְהָא מִרְיָם חַוְרָא כְּתַלְגָא - and behold Miriam was white like snow.

    • 2 Kings 5:27 once again the Targum says וּנְפַק מִן קֳדָמוֹהִי חִוָר כְּתַלְגָא - and he walked away from him white like snow.

    Actually, nowhere do we find that Tzara'ath is flaky. Au contraire, I suspect that if the skin were to become white and flaky then it may not be considered Tzara'ath; but right now I can't prove it.






    share|improve this answer




















    • 1





      Any evidence that that's what the verse means, too?

      – msh210
      14 hours ago











    • @msh that's why I downvoted...

      – רבות מחשבות
      14 hours ago











    • @רבותמחשבות - happy, now?

      – Danny Schoemann
      12 hours ago











    • @msh210 - what do you consider evidence? Is Targum sufficient? I've edited the answer.

      – Danny Schoemann
      12 hours ago







    • 1





      If it was flaky it might be hard to describe it as מראהו עמוק מעור בשרו since it's just at the surface

      – Double AA
      12 hours ago















    8














    According to the first Mishna in Nega'im, the brightest color of Tzara'ath is the white of snow.




    מַרְאוֹת נְגָעִים שְׁנַיִם שֶׁהֵן אַרְבָּעָה. בַּהֶרֶת עַזָּה כַשֶּׁלֶג, שְׁנִיָּה לָהּ כְּסִיד הַהֵיכָל. וְהַשְּׂאֵת כִּקְרוּם בֵּיצָה, שְׁנִיָּה לָהּ כְּצֶמֶר לָבָן, דִּבְרֵי רַבִּי מֵאִיר. וַחֲכָמִים אוֹמְרִים, הַשְּׂאֵת כְּצֶמֶר לָבָן, שְׁנִיָּה לָהּ כִּקְרוּם בֵּיצָה:



    The appearances of Negaim [diseased patches on skin, clothes, or houses that create impurity] are two which are four: Baheret is bright [white] like snow, its subsidiary is like the lime of the Temple. Se'et is like the membrane of an egg, its subsidiary is like white wool; the words of Rabbi Meir. The Sages say, Se'et is like white wool, its subsidiary is like the membrane of an egg.




    When talking about snow, in regards to Tzara'ath, it refers to the whiteness of snow; snow being the whitest white known at the time.



    As the Bartenarua there says:




    בהרת עזה כשלג. לבנה ביותר. דכתיב (ויקרא י״ג) ואם בהרת לבנה היא, היא לבנה ואין למעלה ממנה לבנה:‏




    Back to your quotes:



    • Exodus 4:6 the Targum translates it as וְהָא יְדֵהּ חַוְרָא כְתַלְגָא - and his hand was white as snow. Rashi concurs saying דֶּרֶךְ צָרַעַת לִהְיוֹת לְבָנָה – "וְאִם בַּהֶרֶת לְבָנָה הִיא" - the nature of Tzara'ath is to be white.

    • Numbers 12:10 once again the Targum says וְהָא מִרְיָם חַוְרָא כְּתַלְגָא - and behold Miriam was white like snow.

    • 2 Kings 5:27 once again the Targum says וּנְפַק מִן קֳדָמוֹהִי חִוָר כְּתַלְגָא - and he walked away from him white like snow.

    Actually, nowhere do we find that Tzara'ath is flaky. Au contraire, I suspect that if the skin were to become white and flaky then it may not be considered Tzara'ath; but right now I can't prove it.






    share|improve this answer




















    • 1





      Any evidence that that's what the verse means, too?

      – msh210
      14 hours ago











    • @msh that's why I downvoted...

      – רבות מחשבות
      14 hours ago











    • @רבותמחשבות - happy, now?

      – Danny Schoemann
      12 hours ago











    • @msh210 - what do you consider evidence? Is Targum sufficient? I've edited the answer.

      – Danny Schoemann
      12 hours ago







    • 1





      If it was flaky it might be hard to describe it as מראהו עמוק מעור בשרו since it's just at the surface

      – Double AA
      12 hours ago













    8












    8








    8







    According to the first Mishna in Nega'im, the brightest color of Tzara'ath is the white of snow.




    מַרְאוֹת נְגָעִים שְׁנַיִם שֶׁהֵן אַרְבָּעָה. בַּהֶרֶת עַזָּה כַשֶּׁלֶג, שְׁנִיָּה לָהּ כְּסִיד הַהֵיכָל. וְהַשְּׂאֵת כִּקְרוּם בֵּיצָה, שְׁנִיָּה לָהּ כְּצֶמֶר לָבָן, דִּבְרֵי רַבִּי מֵאִיר. וַחֲכָמִים אוֹמְרִים, הַשְּׂאֵת כְּצֶמֶר לָבָן, שְׁנִיָּה לָהּ כִּקְרוּם בֵּיצָה:



    The appearances of Negaim [diseased patches on skin, clothes, or houses that create impurity] are two which are four: Baheret is bright [white] like snow, its subsidiary is like the lime of the Temple. Se'et is like the membrane of an egg, its subsidiary is like white wool; the words of Rabbi Meir. The Sages say, Se'et is like white wool, its subsidiary is like the membrane of an egg.




    When talking about snow, in regards to Tzara'ath, it refers to the whiteness of snow; snow being the whitest white known at the time.



    As the Bartenarua there says:




    בהרת עזה כשלג. לבנה ביותר. דכתיב (ויקרא י״ג) ואם בהרת לבנה היא, היא לבנה ואין למעלה ממנה לבנה:‏




    Back to your quotes:



    • Exodus 4:6 the Targum translates it as וְהָא יְדֵהּ חַוְרָא כְתַלְגָא - and his hand was white as snow. Rashi concurs saying דֶּרֶךְ צָרַעַת לִהְיוֹת לְבָנָה – "וְאִם בַּהֶרֶת לְבָנָה הִיא" - the nature of Tzara'ath is to be white.

    • Numbers 12:10 once again the Targum says וְהָא מִרְיָם חַוְרָא כְּתַלְגָא - and behold Miriam was white like snow.

    • 2 Kings 5:27 once again the Targum says וּנְפַק מִן קֳדָמוֹהִי חִוָר כְּתַלְגָא - and he walked away from him white like snow.

    Actually, nowhere do we find that Tzara'ath is flaky. Au contraire, I suspect that if the skin were to become white and flaky then it may not be considered Tzara'ath; but right now I can't prove it.






    share|improve this answer















    According to the first Mishna in Nega'im, the brightest color of Tzara'ath is the white of snow.




    מַרְאוֹת נְגָעִים שְׁנַיִם שֶׁהֵן אַרְבָּעָה. בַּהֶרֶת עַזָּה כַשֶּׁלֶג, שְׁנִיָּה לָהּ כְּסִיד הַהֵיכָל. וְהַשְּׂאֵת כִּקְרוּם בֵּיצָה, שְׁנִיָּה לָהּ כְּצֶמֶר לָבָן, דִּבְרֵי רַבִּי מֵאִיר. וַחֲכָמִים אוֹמְרִים, הַשְּׂאֵת כְּצֶמֶר לָבָן, שְׁנִיָּה לָהּ כִּקְרוּם בֵּיצָה:



    The appearances of Negaim [diseased patches on skin, clothes, or houses that create impurity] are two which are four: Baheret is bright [white] like snow, its subsidiary is like the lime of the Temple. Se'et is like the membrane of an egg, its subsidiary is like white wool; the words of Rabbi Meir. The Sages say, Se'et is like white wool, its subsidiary is like the membrane of an egg.




    When talking about snow, in regards to Tzara'ath, it refers to the whiteness of snow; snow being the whitest white known at the time.



    As the Bartenarua there says:




    בהרת עזה כשלג. לבנה ביותר. דכתיב (ויקרא י״ג) ואם בהרת לבנה היא, היא לבנה ואין למעלה ממנה לבנה:‏




    Back to your quotes:



    • Exodus 4:6 the Targum translates it as וְהָא יְדֵהּ חַוְרָא כְתַלְגָא - and his hand was white as snow. Rashi concurs saying דֶּרֶךְ צָרַעַת לִהְיוֹת לְבָנָה – "וְאִם בַּהֶרֶת לְבָנָה הִיא" - the nature of Tzara'ath is to be white.

    • Numbers 12:10 once again the Targum says וְהָא מִרְיָם חַוְרָא כְּתַלְגָא - and behold Miriam was white like snow.

    • 2 Kings 5:27 once again the Targum says וּנְפַק מִן קֳדָמוֹהִי חִוָר כְּתַלְגָא - and he walked away from him white like snow.

    Actually, nowhere do we find that Tzara'ath is flaky. Au contraire, I suspect that if the skin were to become white and flaky then it may not be considered Tzara'ath; but right now I can't prove it.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 12 hours ago

























    answered yesterday









    Danny SchoemannDanny Schoemann

    34.4k461168




    34.4k461168







    • 1





      Any evidence that that's what the verse means, too?

      – msh210
      14 hours ago











    • @msh that's why I downvoted...

      – רבות מחשבות
      14 hours ago











    • @רבותמחשבות - happy, now?

      – Danny Schoemann
      12 hours ago











    • @msh210 - what do you consider evidence? Is Targum sufficient? I've edited the answer.

      – Danny Schoemann
      12 hours ago







    • 1





      If it was flaky it might be hard to describe it as מראהו עמוק מעור בשרו since it's just at the surface

      – Double AA
      12 hours ago












    • 1





      Any evidence that that's what the verse means, too?

      – msh210
      14 hours ago











    • @msh that's why I downvoted...

      – רבות מחשבות
      14 hours ago











    • @רבותמחשבות - happy, now?

      – Danny Schoemann
      12 hours ago











    • @msh210 - what do you consider evidence? Is Targum sufficient? I've edited the answer.

      – Danny Schoemann
      12 hours ago







    • 1





      If it was flaky it might be hard to describe it as מראהו עמוק מעור בשרו since it's just at the surface

      – Double AA
      12 hours ago







    1




    1





    Any evidence that that's what the verse means, too?

    – msh210
    14 hours ago





    Any evidence that that's what the verse means, too?

    – msh210
    14 hours ago













    @msh that's why I downvoted...

    – רבות מחשבות
    14 hours ago





    @msh that's why I downvoted...

    – רבות מחשבות
    14 hours ago













    @רבותמחשבות - happy, now?

    – Danny Schoemann
    12 hours ago





    @רבותמחשבות - happy, now?

    – Danny Schoemann
    12 hours ago













    @msh210 - what do you consider evidence? Is Targum sufficient? I've edited the answer.

    – Danny Schoemann
    12 hours ago






    @msh210 - what do you consider evidence? Is Targum sufficient? I've edited the answer.

    – Danny Schoemann
    12 hours ago





    1




    1





    If it was flaky it might be hard to describe it as מראהו עמוק מעור בשרו since it's just at the surface

    – Double AA
    12 hours ago





    If it was flaky it might be hard to describe it as מראהו עמוק מעור בשרו since it's just at the surface

    – Double AA
    12 hours ago











    1














    While I'm giving Danny the space to still improve his answer, and agree with his position (see Mendelssohn's Biur here for some discussion of this, and see also Targum Shiv'im here as to whether or not they translate and his hand returned to the color of flesh, although you have to know Old Greek), I wanted to see what support I could find to argue the other point, that the snow describes the scaliness. While at first glance it seems hard to find support, I will do my best.



    Shemos 4:6-7 is the case we will examine, and you can extrapolate to other cases (I used the JPS translation not because it translates it in this way, but because it was the first translation available):




    וַיֹּאמֶר֩ יְהוָ֨ה ל֜וֹ ע֗וֹד הָֽבֵא־נָ֤א יָֽדְךָ֙ בְּחֵיקֶ֔ךָ וַיָּבֵ֥א יָד֖וֹ בְּחֵיק֑וֹ וַיּ֣וֹצִאָ֔הּ וְהִנֵּ֥ה יָד֖וֹ מְצֹרַ֥עַת כַּשָּֽׁלֶג׃



    The LORD said to him further, “Put your hand into your bosom.” He put his hand into his bosom; and when he took it out, his hand was encrusted with snowy scales!




    Why might a translator choose to focus on scales rather than on the color? Well, if we look at the following passuk, we see that after returning his hand to his bosom, it returned to look like flesh. While this could be interpreted as the color of flesh, it may simply refer to the look of regular flesh (i.e. not scaled):




    וַיֹּ֗אמֶר הָשֵׁ֤ב יָֽדְךָ֙ אֶל־חֵיקֶ֔ךָ וַיָּ֥שֶׁב יָד֖וֹ אֶל־חֵיק֑וֹ וַיּֽוֹצִאָהּ֙ מֵֽחֵיק֔וֹ וְהִנֵּה־שָׁ֖בָה כִּבְשָׂרֽוֹ׃



    And He said, “Put your hand back into your bosom.”—He put his hand back into his bosom; and when he took it out of his bosom, there it was again like the rest of his body.—




    The only support I can bring for this here is the translation of the Peshitta here, and perhaps the others who stay silent on the issue.



    The Peshitta translates our passuk as:




    והא אידה מגרבא איך תלגא

    and his hand was as "garva" as snow




    What does garva mean? Garav, as explained by Rashi to Vayikra 21:20, is a type of dried scaly boil. If so, the simplest read of this Passuk would be to say that his hand was as scaly as snow. (Note that we have no indication that Garav was white.)



    However, the Peshitta translates all tzara'as as garva, meaning the meaning of tzara'as is scales/scaly.



    Therefore, for all those who translate tzara'at here as leprosy or some other scaly disease (as opposed to Onkelos here, who translates tzara'at as white, as opposed to his regular translation of segira), they would also be understanding the passuk to be saying "and his hand was scaled like snow".






    share|improve this answer



























      1














      While I'm giving Danny the space to still improve his answer, and agree with his position (see Mendelssohn's Biur here for some discussion of this, and see also Targum Shiv'im here as to whether or not they translate and his hand returned to the color of flesh, although you have to know Old Greek), I wanted to see what support I could find to argue the other point, that the snow describes the scaliness. While at first glance it seems hard to find support, I will do my best.



      Shemos 4:6-7 is the case we will examine, and you can extrapolate to other cases (I used the JPS translation not because it translates it in this way, but because it was the first translation available):




      וַיֹּאמֶר֩ יְהוָ֨ה ל֜וֹ ע֗וֹד הָֽבֵא־נָ֤א יָֽדְךָ֙ בְּחֵיקֶ֔ךָ וַיָּבֵ֥א יָד֖וֹ בְּחֵיק֑וֹ וַיּ֣וֹצִאָ֔הּ וְהִנֵּ֥ה יָד֖וֹ מְצֹרַ֥עַת כַּשָּֽׁלֶג׃



      The LORD said to him further, “Put your hand into your bosom.” He put his hand into his bosom; and when he took it out, his hand was encrusted with snowy scales!




      Why might a translator choose to focus on scales rather than on the color? Well, if we look at the following passuk, we see that after returning his hand to his bosom, it returned to look like flesh. While this could be interpreted as the color of flesh, it may simply refer to the look of regular flesh (i.e. not scaled):




      וַיֹּ֗אמֶר הָשֵׁ֤ב יָֽדְךָ֙ אֶל־חֵיקֶ֔ךָ וַיָּ֥שֶׁב יָד֖וֹ אֶל־חֵיק֑וֹ וַיּֽוֹצִאָהּ֙ מֵֽחֵיק֔וֹ וְהִנֵּה־שָׁ֖בָה כִּבְשָׂרֽוֹ׃



      And He said, “Put your hand back into your bosom.”—He put his hand back into his bosom; and when he took it out of his bosom, there it was again like the rest of his body.—




      The only support I can bring for this here is the translation of the Peshitta here, and perhaps the others who stay silent on the issue.



      The Peshitta translates our passuk as:




      והא אידה מגרבא איך תלגא

      and his hand was as "garva" as snow




      What does garva mean? Garav, as explained by Rashi to Vayikra 21:20, is a type of dried scaly boil. If so, the simplest read of this Passuk would be to say that his hand was as scaly as snow. (Note that we have no indication that Garav was white.)



      However, the Peshitta translates all tzara'as as garva, meaning the meaning of tzara'as is scales/scaly.



      Therefore, for all those who translate tzara'at here as leprosy or some other scaly disease (as opposed to Onkelos here, who translates tzara'at as white, as opposed to his regular translation of segira), they would also be understanding the passuk to be saying "and his hand was scaled like snow".






      share|improve this answer

























        1












        1








        1







        While I'm giving Danny the space to still improve his answer, and agree with his position (see Mendelssohn's Biur here for some discussion of this, and see also Targum Shiv'im here as to whether or not they translate and his hand returned to the color of flesh, although you have to know Old Greek), I wanted to see what support I could find to argue the other point, that the snow describes the scaliness. While at first glance it seems hard to find support, I will do my best.



        Shemos 4:6-7 is the case we will examine, and you can extrapolate to other cases (I used the JPS translation not because it translates it in this way, but because it was the first translation available):




        וַיֹּאמֶר֩ יְהוָ֨ה ל֜וֹ ע֗וֹד הָֽבֵא־נָ֤א יָֽדְךָ֙ בְּחֵיקֶ֔ךָ וַיָּבֵ֥א יָד֖וֹ בְּחֵיק֑וֹ וַיּ֣וֹצִאָ֔הּ וְהִנֵּ֥ה יָד֖וֹ מְצֹרַ֥עַת כַּשָּֽׁלֶג׃



        The LORD said to him further, “Put your hand into your bosom.” He put his hand into his bosom; and when he took it out, his hand was encrusted with snowy scales!




        Why might a translator choose to focus on scales rather than on the color? Well, if we look at the following passuk, we see that after returning his hand to his bosom, it returned to look like flesh. While this could be interpreted as the color of flesh, it may simply refer to the look of regular flesh (i.e. not scaled):




        וַיֹּ֗אמֶר הָשֵׁ֤ב יָֽדְךָ֙ אֶל־חֵיקֶ֔ךָ וַיָּ֥שֶׁב יָד֖וֹ אֶל־חֵיק֑וֹ וַיּֽוֹצִאָהּ֙ מֵֽחֵיק֔וֹ וְהִנֵּה־שָׁ֖בָה כִּבְשָׂרֽוֹ׃



        And He said, “Put your hand back into your bosom.”—He put his hand back into his bosom; and when he took it out of his bosom, there it was again like the rest of his body.—




        The only support I can bring for this here is the translation of the Peshitta here, and perhaps the others who stay silent on the issue.



        The Peshitta translates our passuk as:




        והא אידה מגרבא איך תלגא

        and his hand was as "garva" as snow




        What does garva mean? Garav, as explained by Rashi to Vayikra 21:20, is a type of dried scaly boil. If so, the simplest read of this Passuk would be to say that his hand was as scaly as snow. (Note that we have no indication that Garav was white.)



        However, the Peshitta translates all tzara'as as garva, meaning the meaning of tzara'as is scales/scaly.



        Therefore, for all those who translate tzara'at here as leprosy or some other scaly disease (as opposed to Onkelos here, who translates tzara'at as white, as opposed to his regular translation of segira), they would also be understanding the passuk to be saying "and his hand was scaled like snow".






        share|improve this answer













        While I'm giving Danny the space to still improve his answer, and agree with his position (see Mendelssohn's Biur here for some discussion of this, and see also Targum Shiv'im here as to whether or not they translate and his hand returned to the color of flesh, although you have to know Old Greek), I wanted to see what support I could find to argue the other point, that the snow describes the scaliness. While at first glance it seems hard to find support, I will do my best.



        Shemos 4:6-7 is the case we will examine, and you can extrapolate to other cases (I used the JPS translation not because it translates it in this way, but because it was the first translation available):




        וַיֹּאמֶר֩ יְהוָ֨ה ל֜וֹ ע֗וֹד הָֽבֵא־נָ֤א יָֽדְךָ֙ בְּחֵיקֶ֔ךָ וַיָּבֵ֥א יָד֖וֹ בְּחֵיק֑וֹ וַיּ֣וֹצִאָ֔הּ וְהִנֵּ֥ה יָד֖וֹ מְצֹרַ֥עַת כַּשָּֽׁלֶג׃



        The LORD said to him further, “Put your hand into your bosom.” He put his hand into his bosom; and when he took it out, his hand was encrusted with snowy scales!




        Why might a translator choose to focus on scales rather than on the color? Well, if we look at the following passuk, we see that after returning his hand to his bosom, it returned to look like flesh. While this could be interpreted as the color of flesh, it may simply refer to the look of regular flesh (i.e. not scaled):




        וַיֹּ֗אמֶר הָשֵׁ֤ב יָֽדְךָ֙ אֶל־חֵיקֶ֔ךָ וַיָּ֥שֶׁב יָד֖וֹ אֶל־חֵיק֑וֹ וַיּֽוֹצִאָהּ֙ מֵֽחֵיק֔וֹ וְהִנֵּה־שָׁ֖בָה כִּבְשָׂרֽוֹ׃



        And He said, “Put your hand back into your bosom.”—He put his hand back into his bosom; and when he took it out of his bosom, there it was again like the rest of his body.—




        The only support I can bring for this here is the translation of the Peshitta here, and perhaps the others who stay silent on the issue.



        The Peshitta translates our passuk as:




        והא אידה מגרבא איך תלגא

        and his hand was as "garva" as snow




        What does garva mean? Garav, as explained by Rashi to Vayikra 21:20, is a type of dried scaly boil. If so, the simplest read of this Passuk would be to say that his hand was as scaly as snow. (Note that we have no indication that Garav was white.)



        However, the Peshitta translates all tzara'as as garva, meaning the meaning of tzara'as is scales/scaly.



        Therefore, for all those who translate tzara'at here as leprosy or some other scaly disease (as opposed to Onkelos here, who translates tzara'at as white, as opposed to his regular translation of segira), they would also be understanding the passuk to be saying "and his hand was scaled like snow".







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 11 hours ago









        רבות מחשבותרבות מחשבות

        14.7k131124




        14.7k131124













            Popular posts from this blog

            Get product attribute by attribute group code in magento 2get product attribute by product attribute group in magento 2Magento 2 Log Bundle Product Data in List Page?How to get all product attribute of a attribute group of Default attribute set?Magento 2.1 Create a filter in the product grid by new attributeMagento 2 : Get Product Attribute values By GroupMagento 2 How to get all existing values for one attributeMagento 2 get custom attribute of a single product inside a pluginMagento 2.3 How to get all the Multi Source Inventory (MSI) locations collection in custom module?Magento2: how to develop rest API to get new productsGet product attribute by attribute group code ( [attribute_group_code] ) in magento 2

            Category:9 (number) SubcategoriesMedia in category "9 (number)"Navigation menuUpload mediaGND ID: 4485639-8Library of Congress authority ID: sh85091979ReasonatorScholiaStatistics

            Magento 2.3: How do i solve this, Not registered handle, on custom form?How can i rewrite TierPrice Block in Magento2magento 2 captcha not rendering if I override layout xmlmain.CRITICAL: Plugin class doesn't existMagento 2 : Problem while adding custom button order view page?Magento 2.2.5: Overriding Admin Controller sales/orderMagento 2.2.5: Add, Update and Delete existing products Custom OptionsMagento 2.3 : File Upload issue in UI Component FormMagento2 Not registered handleHow to configured Form Builder Js in my custom magento 2.3.0 module?Magento 2.3. How to create image upload field in an admin form