How should I mix small caps with digits or symbols?Why should I ever use Unicode’s special characters for Roman numerals?Unicode superscript numbers 1 to 3 vs. 4 and aboveAre faux small caps now considered OK?What's with size-specific fonts?How to add drop caps in photoshop?How to construct “lowercase digits” (i.e. text figures)?Small caps in names as part of an adjectiveHow do I achieve the equivalent of using small caps in Arabic?Should I use capital letters (titlecase) when using small caps?Are faux small caps now considered OK?What is the difference between small caps and capitals?Create a dedicated (small caps) TrueType font from and existing OpenType fontAcronyms in headers/lists - small caps?If good examples of small-caps in typography in article/body text exist

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How should I mix small caps with digits or symbols?


Why should I ever use Unicode’s special characters for Roman numerals?Unicode superscript numbers 1 to 3 vs. 4 and aboveAre faux small caps now considered OK?What's with size-specific fonts?How to add drop caps in photoshop?How to construct “lowercase digits” (i.e. text figures)?Small caps in names as part of an adjectiveHow do I achieve the equivalent of using small caps in Arabic?Should I use capital letters (titlecase) when using small caps?Are faux small caps now considered OK?What is the difference between small caps and capitals?Create a dedicated (small caps) TrueType font from and existing OpenType fontAcronyms in headers/lists - small caps?If good examples of small-caps in typography in article/body text exist













3















In a paper I'm writing I have set acronyms (e.g. IBM, GNU, API, NDIS) and Roman numerals in small caps. In some cases there is text set in small caps that is intermixed with other digits or symbols, e.g. PDP-7, 4.2BSD, I/O, mkdir(II), AT&T. (The "mkdir" term is set in italics, as a the name of a computer command.) The II in brackets was used at the time as the Roman number of the manual page section that documented it.)



In the proof I received there's a large difference between the size of small caps and the digits or symbols, and therefore the result appears ugly. You can see some examples below.



enter image description here



enter image description here



enter image description here



enter image description here



enter image description here



How should I address this issue? Here are two possibilities I see.



  • Set these in regular capitals

  • Use a smaller font for the joined digits and symbols









share|improve this question









New contributor



Diomidis Spinellis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.























    3















    In a paper I'm writing I have set acronyms (e.g. IBM, GNU, API, NDIS) and Roman numerals in small caps. In some cases there is text set in small caps that is intermixed with other digits or symbols, e.g. PDP-7, 4.2BSD, I/O, mkdir(II), AT&T. (The "mkdir" term is set in italics, as a the name of a computer command.) The II in brackets was used at the time as the Roman number of the manual page section that documented it.)



    In the proof I received there's a large difference between the size of small caps and the digits or symbols, and therefore the result appears ugly. You can see some examples below.



    enter image description here



    enter image description here



    enter image description here



    enter image description here



    enter image description here



    How should I address this issue? Here are two possibilities I see.



    • Set these in regular capitals

    • Use a smaller font for the joined digits and symbols









    share|improve this question









    New contributor



    Diomidis Spinellis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.





















      3












      3








      3


      1






      In a paper I'm writing I have set acronyms (e.g. IBM, GNU, API, NDIS) and Roman numerals in small caps. In some cases there is text set in small caps that is intermixed with other digits or symbols, e.g. PDP-7, 4.2BSD, I/O, mkdir(II), AT&T. (The "mkdir" term is set in italics, as a the name of a computer command.) The II in brackets was used at the time as the Roman number of the manual page section that documented it.)



      In the proof I received there's a large difference between the size of small caps and the digits or symbols, and therefore the result appears ugly. You can see some examples below.



      enter image description here



      enter image description here



      enter image description here



      enter image description here



      enter image description here



      How should I address this issue? Here are two possibilities I see.



      • Set these in regular capitals

      • Use a smaller font for the joined digits and symbols









      share|improve this question









      New contributor



      Diomidis Spinellis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      In a paper I'm writing I have set acronyms (e.g. IBM, GNU, API, NDIS) and Roman numerals in small caps. In some cases there is text set in small caps that is intermixed with other digits or symbols, e.g. PDP-7, 4.2BSD, I/O, mkdir(II), AT&T. (The "mkdir" term is set in italics, as a the name of a computer command.) The II in brackets was used at the time as the Roman number of the manual page section that documented it.)



      In the proof I received there's a large difference between the size of small caps and the digits or symbols, and therefore the result appears ugly. You can see some examples below.



      enter image description here



      enter image description here



      enter image description here



      enter image description here



      enter image description here



      How should I address this issue? Here are two possibilities I see.



      • Set these in regular capitals

      • Use a smaller font for the joined digits and symbols






      typography






      share|improve this question









      New contributor



      Diomidis Spinellis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.










      share|improve this question









      New contributor



      Diomidis Spinellis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.








      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited May 18 at 17:37







      Diomidis Spinellis













      New contributor



      Diomidis Spinellis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.








      asked May 18 at 16:55









      Diomidis SpinellisDiomidis Spinellis

      1185




      1185




      New contributor



      Diomidis Spinellis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.




      New contributor




      Diomidis Spinellis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          5














          To discuss your example, it helps to distinguish between petite caps who have roughly x height and small caps, who are larger than that (but not as big as regular caps). What you have, strongly looks like petite caps or anyway too small for being used for acronyms and similar. Text using them will be awkward to read, because the brain will automatically parse these acronyms as lowercase, even when they should not be – because they are proper names or are at the beginning of a sentence.
          If the font in question does not have distinct small caps with these properties, I would refrain from this convention altogether.



          That being said, a very good font would also have extra variants of numbers, brackets, slashes, etc. specific for all-small-caps style that are specifically designed to not stand out from your small caps.



          If these are not available, possible solutions for your problems are:



          • Use lowercase numbers as their centre of mass is roughly the same as those of the petite caps. However, they will still stand out a bit due to most of them having ascenders and descenders.


          • Use specific glyphs for Roman numerals.


          • Use suiting alternative forms where you can.


          To illustrate some points, here are your examples set in Linux Libertine (which has rather small caps than petite caps), using lowercase numbers, designated glyphs for Roman numerals, and alternative characters:



          enter image description here



          Finally, since we are talking about typesetters for academic journals here, I strongly suggest investigating the what features the font they use supports (they won’t use any other) and give them detailed instructions on what features you want (and even then you only have a tiny chance of success). The best way to go would probably to just settle on regular all caps.




          Use a smaller font for the joined digits and symbols




          Unless you have optical sizes available, this is a bad idea, since the scaled glyphs will not optically match. This is the problem with faux small caps, faux super- and subscripts, and similar.






          share|improve this answer























          • Given that a proof has been received, it appears they use one or other version of Palatino and photographically-reduced capitals for small caps. When I was forced to do that, I stretched them to 115% width, so that the verticals were the right thickness and they weren't the same shape as ordinary capitals. The result was not bad at all.

            – Andrew Leach
            May 18 at 21:14











          • Interesting idea! I think the main problem in my case is the height, not the shape. Also, I don't have detailed control over formatting any more, I just mark my changes and comments on the draft PDF.

            – Diomidis Spinellis
            May 19 at 20:27



















          3














          You could use old-style (lower-case), non-lining numbers with the small caps letters for a more balanced appearance.



          Lining numbers look more uniform for use with full caps or in rows and columns for accounting, say, and appearance of regularity and uniformity.






          share|improve this answer




















          • 1





            Thank you. I wasn't aware of this option fonts.com/content/learning/fontology/level-3/numbers/…. Unfortunately, I doubt the journal's editors will be willing/able to accommodate it.

            – Diomidis Spinellis
            May 18 at 18:44











          • Also, how would this address the cases of "(II)" and "AT&T"?

            – Diomidis Spinellis
            May 18 at 18:50











          • @DiomidisSpinellis Acronyms in small caps, and abbreviations in full caps, word marks (as opposed to trade marks and logotypes) as appropriate (cop-out, guilty) more here: abbreviations.yourdictionary.com/articles/… You may even find it handy to generate a style-sheet for consistency.

            – Stan
            May 18 at 20:14











          Your Answer








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          2 Answers
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          active

          oldest

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          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          5














          To discuss your example, it helps to distinguish between petite caps who have roughly x height and small caps, who are larger than that (but not as big as regular caps). What you have, strongly looks like petite caps or anyway too small for being used for acronyms and similar. Text using them will be awkward to read, because the brain will automatically parse these acronyms as lowercase, even when they should not be – because they are proper names or are at the beginning of a sentence.
          If the font in question does not have distinct small caps with these properties, I would refrain from this convention altogether.



          That being said, a very good font would also have extra variants of numbers, brackets, slashes, etc. specific for all-small-caps style that are specifically designed to not stand out from your small caps.



          If these are not available, possible solutions for your problems are:



          • Use lowercase numbers as their centre of mass is roughly the same as those of the petite caps. However, they will still stand out a bit due to most of them having ascenders and descenders.


          • Use specific glyphs for Roman numerals.


          • Use suiting alternative forms where you can.


          To illustrate some points, here are your examples set in Linux Libertine (which has rather small caps than petite caps), using lowercase numbers, designated glyphs for Roman numerals, and alternative characters:



          enter image description here



          Finally, since we are talking about typesetters for academic journals here, I strongly suggest investigating the what features the font they use supports (they won’t use any other) and give them detailed instructions on what features you want (and even then you only have a tiny chance of success). The best way to go would probably to just settle on regular all caps.




          Use a smaller font for the joined digits and symbols




          Unless you have optical sizes available, this is a bad idea, since the scaled glyphs will not optically match. This is the problem with faux small caps, faux super- and subscripts, and similar.






          share|improve this answer























          • Given that a proof has been received, it appears they use one or other version of Palatino and photographically-reduced capitals for small caps. When I was forced to do that, I stretched them to 115% width, so that the verticals were the right thickness and they weren't the same shape as ordinary capitals. The result was not bad at all.

            – Andrew Leach
            May 18 at 21:14











          • Interesting idea! I think the main problem in my case is the height, not the shape. Also, I don't have detailed control over formatting any more, I just mark my changes and comments on the draft PDF.

            – Diomidis Spinellis
            May 19 at 20:27
















          5














          To discuss your example, it helps to distinguish between petite caps who have roughly x height and small caps, who are larger than that (but not as big as regular caps). What you have, strongly looks like petite caps or anyway too small for being used for acronyms and similar. Text using them will be awkward to read, because the brain will automatically parse these acronyms as lowercase, even when they should not be – because they are proper names or are at the beginning of a sentence.
          If the font in question does not have distinct small caps with these properties, I would refrain from this convention altogether.



          That being said, a very good font would also have extra variants of numbers, brackets, slashes, etc. specific for all-small-caps style that are specifically designed to not stand out from your small caps.



          If these are not available, possible solutions for your problems are:



          • Use lowercase numbers as their centre of mass is roughly the same as those of the petite caps. However, they will still stand out a bit due to most of them having ascenders and descenders.


          • Use specific glyphs for Roman numerals.


          • Use suiting alternative forms where you can.


          To illustrate some points, here are your examples set in Linux Libertine (which has rather small caps than petite caps), using lowercase numbers, designated glyphs for Roman numerals, and alternative characters:



          enter image description here



          Finally, since we are talking about typesetters for academic journals here, I strongly suggest investigating the what features the font they use supports (they won’t use any other) and give them detailed instructions on what features you want (and even then you only have a tiny chance of success). The best way to go would probably to just settle on regular all caps.




          Use a smaller font for the joined digits and symbols




          Unless you have optical sizes available, this is a bad idea, since the scaled glyphs will not optically match. This is the problem with faux small caps, faux super- and subscripts, and similar.






          share|improve this answer























          • Given that a proof has been received, it appears they use one or other version of Palatino and photographically-reduced capitals for small caps. When I was forced to do that, I stretched them to 115% width, so that the verticals were the right thickness and they weren't the same shape as ordinary capitals. The result was not bad at all.

            – Andrew Leach
            May 18 at 21:14











          • Interesting idea! I think the main problem in my case is the height, not the shape. Also, I don't have detailed control over formatting any more, I just mark my changes and comments on the draft PDF.

            – Diomidis Spinellis
            May 19 at 20:27














          5












          5








          5







          To discuss your example, it helps to distinguish between petite caps who have roughly x height and small caps, who are larger than that (but not as big as regular caps). What you have, strongly looks like petite caps or anyway too small for being used for acronyms and similar. Text using them will be awkward to read, because the brain will automatically parse these acronyms as lowercase, even when they should not be – because they are proper names or are at the beginning of a sentence.
          If the font in question does not have distinct small caps with these properties, I would refrain from this convention altogether.



          That being said, a very good font would also have extra variants of numbers, brackets, slashes, etc. specific for all-small-caps style that are specifically designed to not stand out from your small caps.



          If these are not available, possible solutions for your problems are:



          • Use lowercase numbers as their centre of mass is roughly the same as those of the petite caps. However, they will still stand out a bit due to most of them having ascenders and descenders.


          • Use specific glyphs for Roman numerals.


          • Use suiting alternative forms where you can.


          To illustrate some points, here are your examples set in Linux Libertine (which has rather small caps than petite caps), using lowercase numbers, designated glyphs for Roman numerals, and alternative characters:



          enter image description here



          Finally, since we are talking about typesetters for academic journals here, I strongly suggest investigating the what features the font they use supports (they won’t use any other) and give them detailed instructions on what features you want (and even then you only have a tiny chance of success). The best way to go would probably to just settle on regular all caps.




          Use a smaller font for the joined digits and symbols




          Unless you have optical sizes available, this is a bad idea, since the scaled glyphs will not optically match. This is the problem with faux small caps, faux super- and subscripts, and similar.






          share|improve this answer













          To discuss your example, it helps to distinguish between petite caps who have roughly x height and small caps, who are larger than that (but not as big as regular caps). What you have, strongly looks like petite caps or anyway too small for being used for acronyms and similar. Text using them will be awkward to read, because the brain will automatically parse these acronyms as lowercase, even when they should not be – because they are proper names or are at the beginning of a sentence.
          If the font in question does not have distinct small caps with these properties, I would refrain from this convention altogether.



          That being said, a very good font would also have extra variants of numbers, brackets, slashes, etc. specific for all-small-caps style that are specifically designed to not stand out from your small caps.



          If these are not available, possible solutions for your problems are:



          • Use lowercase numbers as their centre of mass is roughly the same as those of the petite caps. However, they will still stand out a bit due to most of them having ascenders and descenders.


          • Use specific glyphs for Roman numerals.


          • Use suiting alternative forms where you can.


          To illustrate some points, here are your examples set in Linux Libertine (which has rather small caps than petite caps), using lowercase numbers, designated glyphs for Roman numerals, and alternative characters:



          enter image description here



          Finally, since we are talking about typesetters for academic journals here, I strongly suggest investigating the what features the font they use supports (they won’t use any other) and give them detailed instructions on what features you want (and even then you only have a tiny chance of success). The best way to go would probably to just settle on regular all caps.




          Use a smaller font for the joined digits and symbols




          Unless you have optical sizes available, this is a bad idea, since the scaled glyphs will not optically match. This is the problem with faux small caps, faux super- and subscripts, and similar.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered May 18 at 20:29









          WrzlprmftWrzlprmft

          11.3k44576




          11.3k44576












          • Given that a proof has been received, it appears they use one or other version of Palatino and photographically-reduced capitals for small caps. When I was forced to do that, I stretched them to 115% width, so that the verticals were the right thickness and they weren't the same shape as ordinary capitals. The result was not bad at all.

            – Andrew Leach
            May 18 at 21:14











          • Interesting idea! I think the main problem in my case is the height, not the shape. Also, I don't have detailed control over formatting any more, I just mark my changes and comments on the draft PDF.

            – Diomidis Spinellis
            May 19 at 20:27


















          • Given that a proof has been received, it appears they use one or other version of Palatino and photographically-reduced capitals for small caps. When I was forced to do that, I stretched them to 115% width, so that the verticals were the right thickness and they weren't the same shape as ordinary capitals. The result was not bad at all.

            – Andrew Leach
            May 18 at 21:14











          • Interesting idea! I think the main problem in my case is the height, not the shape. Also, I don't have detailed control over formatting any more, I just mark my changes and comments on the draft PDF.

            – Diomidis Spinellis
            May 19 at 20:27

















          Given that a proof has been received, it appears they use one or other version of Palatino and photographically-reduced capitals for small caps. When I was forced to do that, I stretched them to 115% width, so that the verticals were the right thickness and they weren't the same shape as ordinary capitals. The result was not bad at all.

          – Andrew Leach
          May 18 at 21:14





          Given that a proof has been received, it appears they use one or other version of Palatino and photographically-reduced capitals for small caps. When I was forced to do that, I stretched them to 115% width, so that the verticals were the right thickness and they weren't the same shape as ordinary capitals. The result was not bad at all.

          – Andrew Leach
          May 18 at 21:14













          Interesting idea! I think the main problem in my case is the height, not the shape. Also, I don't have detailed control over formatting any more, I just mark my changes and comments on the draft PDF.

          – Diomidis Spinellis
          May 19 at 20:27






          Interesting idea! I think the main problem in my case is the height, not the shape. Also, I don't have detailed control over formatting any more, I just mark my changes and comments on the draft PDF.

          – Diomidis Spinellis
          May 19 at 20:27












          3














          You could use old-style (lower-case), non-lining numbers with the small caps letters for a more balanced appearance.



          Lining numbers look more uniform for use with full caps or in rows and columns for accounting, say, and appearance of regularity and uniformity.






          share|improve this answer




















          • 1





            Thank you. I wasn't aware of this option fonts.com/content/learning/fontology/level-3/numbers/…. Unfortunately, I doubt the journal's editors will be willing/able to accommodate it.

            – Diomidis Spinellis
            May 18 at 18:44











          • Also, how would this address the cases of "(II)" and "AT&T"?

            – Diomidis Spinellis
            May 18 at 18:50











          • @DiomidisSpinellis Acronyms in small caps, and abbreviations in full caps, word marks (as opposed to trade marks and logotypes) as appropriate (cop-out, guilty) more here: abbreviations.yourdictionary.com/articles/… You may even find it handy to generate a style-sheet for consistency.

            – Stan
            May 18 at 20:14















          3














          You could use old-style (lower-case), non-lining numbers with the small caps letters for a more balanced appearance.



          Lining numbers look more uniform for use with full caps or in rows and columns for accounting, say, and appearance of regularity and uniformity.






          share|improve this answer




















          • 1





            Thank you. I wasn't aware of this option fonts.com/content/learning/fontology/level-3/numbers/…. Unfortunately, I doubt the journal's editors will be willing/able to accommodate it.

            – Diomidis Spinellis
            May 18 at 18:44











          • Also, how would this address the cases of "(II)" and "AT&T"?

            – Diomidis Spinellis
            May 18 at 18:50











          • @DiomidisSpinellis Acronyms in small caps, and abbreviations in full caps, word marks (as opposed to trade marks and logotypes) as appropriate (cop-out, guilty) more here: abbreviations.yourdictionary.com/articles/… You may even find it handy to generate a style-sheet for consistency.

            – Stan
            May 18 at 20:14













          3












          3








          3







          You could use old-style (lower-case), non-lining numbers with the small caps letters for a more balanced appearance.



          Lining numbers look more uniform for use with full caps or in rows and columns for accounting, say, and appearance of regularity and uniformity.






          share|improve this answer















          You could use old-style (lower-case), non-lining numbers with the small caps letters for a more balanced appearance.



          Lining numbers look more uniform for use with full caps or in rows and columns for accounting, say, and appearance of regularity and uniformity.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited May 19 at 12:36









          Community

          1




          1










          answered May 18 at 18:33









          StanStan

          4,154921




          4,154921







          • 1





            Thank you. I wasn't aware of this option fonts.com/content/learning/fontology/level-3/numbers/…. Unfortunately, I doubt the journal's editors will be willing/able to accommodate it.

            – Diomidis Spinellis
            May 18 at 18:44











          • Also, how would this address the cases of "(II)" and "AT&T"?

            – Diomidis Spinellis
            May 18 at 18:50











          • @DiomidisSpinellis Acronyms in small caps, and abbreviations in full caps, word marks (as opposed to trade marks and logotypes) as appropriate (cop-out, guilty) more here: abbreviations.yourdictionary.com/articles/… You may even find it handy to generate a style-sheet for consistency.

            – Stan
            May 18 at 20:14












          • 1





            Thank you. I wasn't aware of this option fonts.com/content/learning/fontology/level-3/numbers/…. Unfortunately, I doubt the journal's editors will be willing/able to accommodate it.

            – Diomidis Spinellis
            May 18 at 18:44











          • Also, how would this address the cases of "(II)" and "AT&T"?

            – Diomidis Spinellis
            May 18 at 18:50











          • @DiomidisSpinellis Acronyms in small caps, and abbreviations in full caps, word marks (as opposed to trade marks and logotypes) as appropriate (cop-out, guilty) more here: abbreviations.yourdictionary.com/articles/… You may even find it handy to generate a style-sheet for consistency.

            – Stan
            May 18 at 20:14







          1




          1





          Thank you. I wasn't aware of this option fonts.com/content/learning/fontology/level-3/numbers/…. Unfortunately, I doubt the journal's editors will be willing/able to accommodate it.

          – Diomidis Spinellis
          May 18 at 18:44





          Thank you. I wasn't aware of this option fonts.com/content/learning/fontology/level-3/numbers/…. Unfortunately, I doubt the journal's editors will be willing/able to accommodate it.

          – Diomidis Spinellis
          May 18 at 18:44













          Also, how would this address the cases of "(II)" and "AT&T"?

          – Diomidis Spinellis
          May 18 at 18:50





          Also, how would this address the cases of "(II)" and "AT&T"?

          – Diomidis Spinellis
          May 18 at 18:50













          @DiomidisSpinellis Acronyms in small caps, and abbreviations in full caps, word marks (as opposed to trade marks and logotypes) as appropriate (cop-out, guilty) more here: abbreviations.yourdictionary.com/articles/… You may even find it handy to generate a style-sheet for consistency.

          – Stan
          May 18 at 20:14





          @DiomidisSpinellis Acronyms in small caps, and abbreviations in full caps, word marks (as opposed to trade marks and logotypes) as appropriate (cop-out, guilty) more here: abbreviations.yourdictionary.com/articles/… You may even find it handy to generate a style-sheet for consistency.

          – Stan
          May 18 at 20:14










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