How to parse 「場合でも」Is 場合は considered a conditional form? (and how do you correctly use it?)How to parse わけじゃなしThe difference between “follow” using についていく、「あと?」をつける、「あと?」をついていくUsing both と and を with the verb 言う?How to parse the following long announcement?How to parse long sentencesHow do I parse this sentence?When の follows particlesHow to parse “にある” in this case?Confusion regarding “〜てからでないと・・・”How to interprete these は and parse the sentence

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How to parse 「場合でも」


Is 場合は considered a conditional form? (and how do you correctly use it?)How to parse わけじゃなしThe difference between “follow” using についていく、「あと?」をつける、「あと?」をついていくUsing both と and を with the verb 言う?How to parse the following long announcement?How to parse long sentencesHow do I parse this sentence?When の follows particlesHow to parse “にある” in this case?Confusion regarding “〜てからでないと・・・”How to interprete these は and parse the sentence






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








1















I was standing at a urinal recently as tried to read the note on the top surface. It was as follows:




 人がいない場合でも水が流れることがあります




Based (mostly) on the words and context I would expect this to mean something like "When there is no person, there will be a flush of water"



I am hung up on the [場合でも」 part. In this question [場合」 is explained as typically being followed by に and/or は. Both of those make sense to me as a typical particle usage for a "temporal noun", but I am not sure what the 「でも」 usage is.



How is 「でも」acting here, or is it 「で+も」?
Thank you!










share|improve this question




























    1















    I was standing at a urinal recently as tried to read the note on the top surface. It was as follows:




     人がいない場合でも水が流れることがあります




    Based (mostly) on the words and context I would expect this to mean something like "When there is no person, there will be a flush of water"



    I am hung up on the [場合でも」 part. In this question [場合」 is explained as typically being followed by に and/or は. Both of those make sense to me as a typical particle usage for a "temporal noun", but I am not sure what the 「でも」 usage is.



    How is 「でも」acting here, or is it 「で+も」?
    Thank you!










    share|improve this question
























      1












      1








      1








      I was standing at a urinal recently as tried to read the note on the top surface. It was as follows:




       人がいない場合でも水が流れることがあります




      Based (mostly) on the words and context I would expect this to mean something like "When there is no person, there will be a flush of water"



      I am hung up on the [場合でも」 part. In this question [場合」 is explained as typically being followed by に and/or は. Both of those make sense to me as a typical particle usage for a "temporal noun", but I am not sure what the 「でも」 usage is.



      How is 「でも」acting here, or is it 「で+も」?
      Thank you!










      share|improve this question














      I was standing at a urinal recently as tried to read the note on the top surface. It was as follows:




       人がいない場合でも水が流れることがあります




      Based (mostly) on the words and context I would expect this to mean something like "When there is no person, there will be a flush of water"



      I am hung up on the [場合でも」 part. In this question [場合」 is explained as typically being followed by に and/or は. Both of those make sense to me as a typical particle usage for a "temporal noun", but I am not sure what the 「でも」 usage is.



      How is 「でも」acting here, or is it 「で+も」?
      Thank you!







      grammar particles






      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question











      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question










      asked Jun 18 at 8:02









      katatahitokatatahito

      67210 bronze badges




      67210 bronze badges




















          3 Answers
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          3














          I would structurally translate this as:




          人がいない場合でも水が流れることがあります。



          There are times when the water will flow, even if it is the case where there is nobody (here).




          The N+でも construction expresses the same as Vて+も, なadj+でも いadj+くても, which indicates a 'reverse condition', usually translated to "even if" - i.e. explaining a scenario which is contrary to what you might think. Usually, I suppose, a urinal's flushing feature only activates after use, by using one of those infra-red sensors; this is simply explaining that they may also (surprisingly) activate as a matter of course, without a person needing to use it/be there to trigger it.



          場合 is often used in a related way, in "no matter the case" type phrases, with どんな・どの場合でも:




          どんな場合でも私は笑っていた。No matter the situation (case), I was smiling.



          この規則はどの場合でも当てはまる。This rule applies in all cases.



          どんな場合でも皮膚の色で人を判断すべきではない。 (Whatever the case) you should never judge people by the colour of their skin.







          share|improve this answer

























          • I think you are spot on with this, I think logically I just didn't consider that it could mean "when no one is around" as opposed to "after someone leaves." Thank you!

            – katatahito
            Jun 18 at 11:04











          • Very welcome :)

            – henreetee
            Jun 18 at 11:09


















          3














          でも means "even if/even though/but".It is contrastive, and it's the version of いadj + くても used with nouns and なadj:




          寒【さむ】くても、ジャケットを着【き】ないででかけた。Even though it was cold, I left without wearing a jacket.



          昨日【きのう】暇【ひま】でも、宿題しなかった。Even though I was free, I didn't do homework yesterday.




          So your sentence would mean "water flowing may exist even in the case there is nobody", or put in more natural terms, "water may flow even if there's nobody".



          Therefore, it is not stated that the water only flows when there is no one, but that the water flows (in general) and it can flow when there is no one as well. As this might be unexpected, the contrative でも is used.



          EDIT: I cheched the answer you reference. 場合 means "case" and it is often used as a conditional, but not always.






          share|improve this answer
































            1














            There are good answers here, but I'll provide my parsing as well. I take the sentence and peel back the layers:




            人がいない場合でも水が流れることがあります。




            So then, adding some parentheses to group clauses:




            (人がいない場合でも水が流れる)ことがあります。

            ([人がいない場合]でも[水が流れる])ことがあります。




            We can translate ことがあります。 loosely as "the condition exists." or "the event exists." Putting this aside for now, let's translate the inner parts, starting with the right because it's easier:




            水が流れる = Water flows



            人がいない場合 = The case where no person is around




            Now, the でも in between can mean "even if" and attaches to the left clause, so:




            人がいない場合でも = Even if it is the case where no person is around




            So putting it together:




            人がいない場合でも水が流れることがあります。

            There exists the event where water will flow even if no person is around.




            This sounds stiff in English, so we can relax it a bit:




            Water may flow even if no one is around.







            share|improve this answer

























              Your Answer








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              3 Answers
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              active

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              3 Answers
              3






              active

              oldest

              votes









              active

              oldest

              votes






              active

              oldest

              votes









              3














              I would structurally translate this as:




              人がいない場合でも水が流れることがあります。



              There are times when the water will flow, even if it is the case where there is nobody (here).




              The N+でも construction expresses the same as Vて+も, なadj+でも いadj+くても, which indicates a 'reverse condition', usually translated to "even if" - i.e. explaining a scenario which is contrary to what you might think. Usually, I suppose, a urinal's flushing feature only activates after use, by using one of those infra-red sensors; this is simply explaining that they may also (surprisingly) activate as a matter of course, without a person needing to use it/be there to trigger it.



              場合 is often used in a related way, in "no matter the case" type phrases, with どんな・どの場合でも:




              どんな場合でも私は笑っていた。No matter the situation (case), I was smiling.



              この規則はどの場合でも当てはまる。This rule applies in all cases.



              どんな場合でも皮膚の色で人を判断すべきではない。 (Whatever the case) you should never judge people by the colour of their skin.







              share|improve this answer

























              • I think you are spot on with this, I think logically I just didn't consider that it could mean "when no one is around" as opposed to "after someone leaves." Thank you!

                – katatahito
                Jun 18 at 11:04











              • Very welcome :)

                – henreetee
                Jun 18 at 11:09















              3














              I would structurally translate this as:




              人がいない場合でも水が流れることがあります。



              There are times when the water will flow, even if it is the case where there is nobody (here).




              The N+でも construction expresses the same as Vて+も, なadj+でも いadj+くても, which indicates a 'reverse condition', usually translated to "even if" - i.e. explaining a scenario which is contrary to what you might think. Usually, I suppose, a urinal's flushing feature only activates after use, by using one of those infra-red sensors; this is simply explaining that they may also (surprisingly) activate as a matter of course, without a person needing to use it/be there to trigger it.



              場合 is often used in a related way, in "no matter the case" type phrases, with どんな・どの場合でも:




              どんな場合でも私は笑っていた。No matter the situation (case), I was smiling.



              この規則はどの場合でも当てはまる。This rule applies in all cases.



              どんな場合でも皮膚の色で人を判断すべきではない。 (Whatever the case) you should never judge people by the colour of their skin.







              share|improve this answer

























              • I think you are spot on with this, I think logically I just didn't consider that it could mean "when no one is around" as opposed to "after someone leaves." Thank you!

                – katatahito
                Jun 18 at 11:04











              • Very welcome :)

                – henreetee
                Jun 18 at 11:09













              3












              3








              3







              I would structurally translate this as:




              人がいない場合でも水が流れることがあります。



              There are times when the water will flow, even if it is the case where there is nobody (here).




              The N+でも construction expresses the same as Vて+も, なadj+でも いadj+くても, which indicates a 'reverse condition', usually translated to "even if" - i.e. explaining a scenario which is contrary to what you might think. Usually, I suppose, a urinal's flushing feature only activates after use, by using one of those infra-red sensors; this is simply explaining that they may also (surprisingly) activate as a matter of course, without a person needing to use it/be there to trigger it.



              場合 is often used in a related way, in "no matter the case" type phrases, with どんな・どの場合でも:




              どんな場合でも私は笑っていた。No matter the situation (case), I was smiling.



              この規則はどの場合でも当てはまる。This rule applies in all cases.



              どんな場合でも皮膚の色で人を判断すべきではない。 (Whatever the case) you should never judge people by the colour of their skin.







              share|improve this answer















              I would structurally translate this as:




              人がいない場合でも水が流れることがあります。



              There are times when the water will flow, even if it is the case where there is nobody (here).




              The N+でも construction expresses the same as Vて+も, なadj+でも いadj+くても, which indicates a 'reverse condition', usually translated to "even if" - i.e. explaining a scenario which is contrary to what you might think. Usually, I suppose, a urinal's flushing feature only activates after use, by using one of those infra-red sensors; this is simply explaining that they may also (surprisingly) activate as a matter of course, without a person needing to use it/be there to trigger it.



              場合 is often used in a related way, in "no matter the case" type phrases, with どんな・どの場合でも:




              どんな場合でも私は笑っていた。No matter the situation (case), I was smiling.



              この規則はどの場合でも当てはまる。This rule applies in all cases.



              どんな場合でも皮膚の色で人を判断すべきではない。 (Whatever the case) you should never judge people by the colour of their skin.








              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited Jun 18 at 11:06

























              answered Jun 18 at 10:58









              henreeteehenreetee

              1,1631 silver badge14 bronze badges




              1,1631 silver badge14 bronze badges












              • I think you are spot on with this, I think logically I just didn't consider that it could mean "when no one is around" as opposed to "after someone leaves." Thank you!

                – katatahito
                Jun 18 at 11:04











              • Very welcome :)

                – henreetee
                Jun 18 at 11:09

















              • I think you are spot on with this, I think logically I just didn't consider that it could mean "when no one is around" as opposed to "after someone leaves." Thank you!

                – katatahito
                Jun 18 at 11:04











              • Very welcome :)

                – henreetee
                Jun 18 at 11:09
















              I think you are spot on with this, I think logically I just didn't consider that it could mean "when no one is around" as opposed to "after someone leaves." Thank you!

              – katatahito
              Jun 18 at 11:04





              I think you are spot on with this, I think logically I just didn't consider that it could mean "when no one is around" as opposed to "after someone leaves." Thank you!

              – katatahito
              Jun 18 at 11:04













              Very welcome :)

              – henreetee
              Jun 18 at 11:09





              Very welcome :)

              – henreetee
              Jun 18 at 11:09













              3














              でも means "even if/even though/but".It is contrastive, and it's the version of いadj + くても used with nouns and なadj:




              寒【さむ】くても、ジャケットを着【き】ないででかけた。Even though it was cold, I left without wearing a jacket.



              昨日【きのう】暇【ひま】でも、宿題しなかった。Even though I was free, I didn't do homework yesterday.




              So your sentence would mean "water flowing may exist even in the case there is nobody", or put in more natural terms, "water may flow even if there's nobody".



              Therefore, it is not stated that the water only flows when there is no one, but that the water flows (in general) and it can flow when there is no one as well. As this might be unexpected, the contrative でも is used.



              EDIT: I cheched the answer you reference. 場合 means "case" and it is often used as a conditional, but not always.






              share|improve this answer





























                3














                でも means "even if/even though/but".It is contrastive, and it's the version of いadj + くても used with nouns and なadj:




                寒【さむ】くても、ジャケットを着【き】ないででかけた。Even though it was cold, I left without wearing a jacket.



                昨日【きのう】暇【ひま】でも、宿題しなかった。Even though I was free, I didn't do homework yesterday.




                So your sentence would mean "water flowing may exist even in the case there is nobody", or put in more natural terms, "water may flow even if there's nobody".



                Therefore, it is not stated that the water only flows when there is no one, but that the water flows (in general) and it can flow when there is no one as well. As this might be unexpected, the contrative でも is used.



                EDIT: I cheched the answer you reference. 場合 means "case" and it is often used as a conditional, but not always.






                share|improve this answer



























                  3












                  3








                  3







                  でも means "even if/even though/but".It is contrastive, and it's the version of いadj + くても used with nouns and なadj:




                  寒【さむ】くても、ジャケットを着【き】ないででかけた。Even though it was cold, I left without wearing a jacket.



                  昨日【きのう】暇【ひま】でも、宿題しなかった。Even though I was free, I didn't do homework yesterday.




                  So your sentence would mean "water flowing may exist even in the case there is nobody", or put in more natural terms, "water may flow even if there's nobody".



                  Therefore, it is not stated that the water only flows when there is no one, but that the water flows (in general) and it can flow when there is no one as well. As this might be unexpected, the contrative でも is used.



                  EDIT: I cheched the answer you reference. 場合 means "case" and it is often used as a conditional, but not always.






                  share|improve this answer















                  でも means "even if/even though/but".It is contrastive, and it's the version of いadj + くても used with nouns and なadj:




                  寒【さむ】くても、ジャケットを着【き】ないででかけた。Even though it was cold, I left without wearing a jacket.



                  昨日【きのう】暇【ひま】でも、宿題しなかった。Even though I was free, I didn't do homework yesterday.




                  So your sentence would mean "water flowing may exist even in the case there is nobody", or put in more natural terms, "water may flow even if there's nobody".



                  Therefore, it is not stated that the water only flows when there is no one, but that the water flows (in general) and it can flow when there is no one as well. As this might be unexpected, the contrative でも is used.



                  EDIT: I cheched the answer you reference. 場合 means "case" and it is often used as a conditional, but not always.







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited Jun 18 at 9:47

























                  answered Jun 18 at 9:36









                  jarmanso7jarmanso7

                  57216 bronze badges




                  57216 bronze badges





















                      1














                      There are good answers here, but I'll provide my parsing as well. I take the sentence and peel back the layers:




                      人がいない場合でも水が流れることがあります。




                      So then, adding some parentheses to group clauses:




                      (人がいない場合でも水が流れる)ことがあります。

                      ([人がいない場合]でも[水が流れる])ことがあります。




                      We can translate ことがあります。 loosely as "the condition exists." or "the event exists." Putting this aside for now, let's translate the inner parts, starting with the right because it's easier:




                      水が流れる = Water flows



                      人がいない場合 = The case where no person is around




                      Now, the でも in between can mean "even if" and attaches to the left clause, so:




                      人がいない場合でも = Even if it is the case where no person is around




                      So putting it together:




                      人がいない場合でも水が流れることがあります。

                      There exists the event where water will flow even if no person is around.




                      This sounds stiff in English, so we can relax it a bit:




                      Water may flow even if no one is around.







                      share|improve this answer



























                        1














                        There are good answers here, but I'll provide my parsing as well. I take the sentence and peel back the layers:




                        人がいない場合でも水が流れることがあります。




                        So then, adding some parentheses to group clauses:




                        (人がいない場合でも水が流れる)ことがあります。

                        ([人がいない場合]でも[水が流れる])ことがあります。




                        We can translate ことがあります。 loosely as "the condition exists." or "the event exists." Putting this aside for now, let's translate the inner parts, starting with the right because it's easier:




                        水が流れる = Water flows



                        人がいない場合 = The case where no person is around




                        Now, the でも in between can mean "even if" and attaches to the left clause, so:




                        人がいない場合でも = Even if it is the case where no person is around




                        So putting it together:




                        人がいない場合でも水が流れることがあります。

                        There exists the event where water will flow even if no person is around.




                        This sounds stiff in English, so we can relax it a bit:




                        Water may flow even if no one is around.







                        share|improve this answer

























                          1












                          1








                          1







                          There are good answers here, but I'll provide my parsing as well. I take the sentence and peel back the layers:




                          人がいない場合でも水が流れることがあります。




                          So then, adding some parentheses to group clauses:




                          (人がいない場合でも水が流れる)ことがあります。

                          ([人がいない場合]でも[水が流れる])ことがあります。




                          We can translate ことがあります。 loosely as "the condition exists." or "the event exists." Putting this aside for now, let's translate the inner parts, starting with the right because it's easier:




                          水が流れる = Water flows



                          人がいない場合 = The case where no person is around




                          Now, the でも in between can mean "even if" and attaches to the left clause, so:




                          人がいない場合でも = Even if it is the case where no person is around




                          So putting it together:




                          人がいない場合でも水が流れることがあります。

                          There exists the event where water will flow even if no person is around.




                          This sounds stiff in English, so we can relax it a bit:




                          Water may flow even if no one is around.







                          share|improve this answer













                          There are good answers here, but I'll provide my parsing as well. I take the sentence and peel back the layers:




                          人がいない場合でも水が流れることがあります。




                          So then, adding some parentheses to group clauses:




                          (人がいない場合でも水が流れる)ことがあります。

                          ([人がいない場合]でも[水が流れる])ことがあります。




                          We can translate ことがあります。 loosely as "the condition exists." or "the event exists." Putting this aside for now, let's translate the inner parts, starting with the right because it's easier:




                          水が流れる = Water flows



                          人がいない場合 = The case where no person is around




                          Now, the でも in between can mean "even if" and attaches to the left clause, so:




                          人がいない場合でも = Even if it is the case where no person is around




                          So putting it together:




                          人がいない場合でも水が流れることがあります。

                          There exists the event where water will flow even if no person is around.




                          This sounds stiff in English, so we can relax it a bit:




                          Water may flow even if no one is around.








                          share|improve this answer












                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer










                          answered Jun 18 at 19:40









                          psosunapsosuna

                          3,6594 silver badges17 bronze badges




                          3,6594 silver badges17 bronze badges



























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