Who said “one can be a powerful king with a very small sceptre”?Who said “Lafayette we are here!”?Who said “Nature that framed us of four elements … doth teach us all to have aspiring minds.”?Who said, “Watch your thoughts, they become your words”?Did Diderot say “Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”?Where can I find information about women who worked in French military brothels in WW1?Who said “Anything a machine can do, a machine should do”?

Ordering a word list

Is TA-ing worth the opportunity cost?

Are any jet engines used in combat aircraft water cooled?

How many different ways are there to checkmate in the early game?

Want to draw this commutative diagram

In a topological space if there exists a loop that cannot be contracted to a point does there exist a simple loop that cannot be contracted also?

Who are these characters/superheroes in the posters from Chris's room in Family Guy?

Does this Foo machine halt?

How should an administrative assistant reply to student addressing them as "Professor" or "Doctor"?

The pronunciation of "protester"

(11 of 11: Meta) What is Pyramid Cult's All-Time Favorite?

First amendment and employment: Can an employer terminate you for speech?

PHP santization of textarea input

Does a code snippet compile? Or does it get compiled?

Why "ch" pronunciation rule doesn't occur for words such as "durch", "manchmal"?

Look mom! I made my own (Base 10) numeral system!

What is a raycast?

Non-OR journals which regularly publish OR research

How do we avoid CI-driven development...?

Visa National - No Exit Stamp From France on Return to the UK

What does "sardine box" mean?

Invert bits of binary representation of number

English - Acceptable use of parentheses in an author's name

What are good ways to improve as a writer other than writing courses?



Who said “one can be a powerful king with a very small sceptre”?


Who said “Lafayette we are here!”?Who said “Nature that framed us of four elements … doth teach us all to have aspiring minds.”?Who said, “Watch your thoughts, they become your words”?Did Diderot say “Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”?Where can I find information about women who worked in French military brothels in WW1?Who said “Anything a machine can do, a machine should do”?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








14















Anne McElvoy, senior editor at the Economist, wrote the following in a recent column:




As a mistress of Louis XIV waspishly remarked, one can be a powerful king with a very small sceptre.




The quote appears exactly once in Google's index -- in the above-mentioned column. I presume she meant Louis XIV of France, so I searched a few possible translations and wasn't able to locate the quote in French either.



Assuming the quote is correct, or that there's a similar quote that I missed, what is the actual quote, which of Louis XIV's mistresses said it (assuming it was indeed one of his mistresses), and in what context?










share|improve this question





















  • 4





    I can't really research properly right now, but contemporary pamphleteers in Paris are supposed to have attributed something similar (a reference to Louis' “tres petit sceptre”) to Henrietta of England (daughter of Charles I).

    – sempaiscuba
    Jul 30 at 12:01






  • 2





    What an amazing quote. Taken at face value it's a profound quote on Monarchy, and leadership in general, worthy of Sun Tzu, Machiavelli, or Miyamoto Musashi; but of course everyone hearing it first hears the sexual innuendo of the double entendre'.

    – Pieter Geerkens
    Jul 30 at 12:10






  • 1





    @sempaiscuba: I'm tempted to assume you've guessed correctly, though it's a bit intriguing that the Tumblr post you link to is the only reference in Google's index when searching for "Louis XIV" "tres petit sceptre".

    – Denis de Bernardy
    Jul 30 at 12:14











  • @DenisdeBernardy I agree, which is why I don't think it's enough for an answer. I'd suggest looking at surviving pamphlets that mention Henrietta as a starting point. The BNF may have some of their (fairly extensive) collection available online.

    – sempaiscuba
    Jul 30 at 12:37

















14















Anne McElvoy, senior editor at the Economist, wrote the following in a recent column:




As a mistress of Louis XIV waspishly remarked, one can be a powerful king with a very small sceptre.




The quote appears exactly once in Google's index -- in the above-mentioned column. I presume she meant Louis XIV of France, so I searched a few possible translations and wasn't able to locate the quote in French either.



Assuming the quote is correct, or that there's a similar quote that I missed, what is the actual quote, which of Louis XIV's mistresses said it (assuming it was indeed one of his mistresses), and in what context?










share|improve this question





















  • 4





    I can't really research properly right now, but contemporary pamphleteers in Paris are supposed to have attributed something similar (a reference to Louis' “tres petit sceptre”) to Henrietta of England (daughter of Charles I).

    – sempaiscuba
    Jul 30 at 12:01






  • 2





    What an amazing quote. Taken at face value it's a profound quote on Monarchy, and leadership in general, worthy of Sun Tzu, Machiavelli, or Miyamoto Musashi; but of course everyone hearing it first hears the sexual innuendo of the double entendre'.

    – Pieter Geerkens
    Jul 30 at 12:10






  • 1





    @sempaiscuba: I'm tempted to assume you've guessed correctly, though it's a bit intriguing that the Tumblr post you link to is the only reference in Google's index when searching for "Louis XIV" "tres petit sceptre".

    – Denis de Bernardy
    Jul 30 at 12:14











  • @DenisdeBernardy I agree, which is why I don't think it's enough for an answer. I'd suggest looking at surviving pamphlets that mention Henrietta as a starting point. The BNF may have some of their (fairly extensive) collection available online.

    – sempaiscuba
    Jul 30 at 12:37













14












14








14


1






Anne McElvoy, senior editor at the Economist, wrote the following in a recent column:




As a mistress of Louis XIV waspishly remarked, one can be a powerful king with a very small sceptre.




The quote appears exactly once in Google's index -- in the above-mentioned column. I presume she meant Louis XIV of France, so I searched a few possible translations and wasn't able to locate the quote in French either.



Assuming the quote is correct, or that there's a similar quote that I missed, what is the actual quote, which of Louis XIV's mistresses said it (assuming it was indeed one of his mistresses), and in what context?










share|improve this question
















Anne McElvoy, senior editor at the Economist, wrote the following in a recent column:




As a mistress of Louis XIV waspishly remarked, one can be a powerful king with a very small sceptre.




The quote appears exactly once in Google's index -- in the above-mentioned column. I presume she meant Louis XIV of France, so I searched a few possible translations and wasn't able to locate the quote in French either.



Assuming the quote is correct, or that there's a similar quote that I missed, what is the actual quote, which of Louis XIV's mistresses said it (assuming it was indeed one of his mistresses), and in what context?







france quotes louis-xiv






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Jul 30 at 14:06







Denis de Bernardy

















asked Jul 30 at 11:51









Denis de BernardyDenis de Bernardy

18.6k2 gold badges55 silver badges71 bronze badges




18.6k2 gold badges55 silver badges71 bronze badges










  • 4





    I can't really research properly right now, but contemporary pamphleteers in Paris are supposed to have attributed something similar (a reference to Louis' “tres petit sceptre”) to Henrietta of England (daughter of Charles I).

    – sempaiscuba
    Jul 30 at 12:01






  • 2





    What an amazing quote. Taken at face value it's a profound quote on Monarchy, and leadership in general, worthy of Sun Tzu, Machiavelli, or Miyamoto Musashi; but of course everyone hearing it first hears the sexual innuendo of the double entendre'.

    – Pieter Geerkens
    Jul 30 at 12:10






  • 1





    @sempaiscuba: I'm tempted to assume you've guessed correctly, though it's a bit intriguing that the Tumblr post you link to is the only reference in Google's index when searching for "Louis XIV" "tres petit sceptre".

    – Denis de Bernardy
    Jul 30 at 12:14











  • @DenisdeBernardy I agree, which is why I don't think it's enough for an answer. I'd suggest looking at surviving pamphlets that mention Henrietta as a starting point. The BNF may have some of their (fairly extensive) collection available online.

    – sempaiscuba
    Jul 30 at 12:37












  • 4





    I can't really research properly right now, but contemporary pamphleteers in Paris are supposed to have attributed something similar (a reference to Louis' “tres petit sceptre”) to Henrietta of England (daughter of Charles I).

    – sempaiscuba
    Jul 30 at 12:01






  • 2





    What an amazing quote. Taken at face value it's a profound quote on Monarchy, and leadership in general, worthy of Sun Tzu, Machiavelli, or Miyamoto Musashi; but of course everyone hearing it first hears the sexual innuendo of the double entendre'.

    – Pieter Geerkens
    Jul 30 at 12:10






  • 1





    @sempaiscuba: I'm tempted to assume you've guessed correctly, though it's a bit intriguing that the Tumblr post you link to is the only reference in Google's index when searching for "Louis XIV" "tres petit sceptre".

    – Denis de Bernardy
    Jul 30 at 12:14











  • @DenisdeBernardy I agree, which is why I don't think it's enough for an answer. I'd suggest looking at surviving pamphlets that mention Henrietta as a starting point. The BNF may have some of their (fairly extensive) collection available online.

    – sempaiscuba
    Jul 30 at 12:37







4




4





I can't really research properly right now, but contemporary pamphleteers in Paris are supposed to have attributed something similar (a reference to Louis' “tres petit sceptre”) to Henrietta of England (daughter of Charles I).

– sempaiscuba
Jul 30 at 12:01





I can't really research properly right now, but contemporary pamphleteers in Paris are supposed to have attributed something similar (a reference to Louis' “tres petit sceptre”) to Henrietta of England (daughter of Charles I).

– sempaiscuba
Jul 30 at 12:01




2




2





What an amazing quote. Taken at face value it's a profound quote on Monarchy, and leadership in general, worthy of Sun Tzu, Machiavelli, or Miyamoto Musashi; but of course everyone hearing it first hears the sexual innuendo of the double entendre'.

– Pieter Geerkens
Jul 30 at 12:10





What an amazing quote. Taken at face value it's a profound quote on Monarchy, and leadership in general, worthy of Sun Tzu, Machiavelli, or Miyamoto Musashi; but of course everyone hearing it first hears the sexual innuendo of the double entendre'.

– Pieter Geerkens
Jul 30 at 12:10




1




1





@sempaiscuba: I'm tempted to assume you've guessed correctly, though it's a bit intriguing that the Tumblr post you link to is the only reference in Google's index when searching for "Louis XIV" "tres petit sceptre".

– Denis de Bernardy
Jul 30 at 12:14





@sempaiscuba: I'm tempted to assume you've guessed correctly, though it's a bit intriguing that the Tumblr post you link to is the only reference in Google's index when searching for "Louis XIV" "tres petit sceptre".

– Denis de Bernardy
Jul 30 at 12:14













@DenisdeBernardy I agree, which is why I don't think it's enough for an answer. I'd suggest looking at surviving pamphlets that mention Henrietta as a starting point. The BNF may have some of their (fairly extensive) collection available online.

– sempaiscuba
Jul 30 at 12:37





@DenisdeBernardy I agree, which is why I don't think it's enough for an answer. I'd suggest looking at surviving pamphlets that mention Henrietta as a starting point. The BNF may have some of their (fairly extensive) collection available online.

– sempaiscuba
Jul 30 at 12:37










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















11














The 'author' of this interesting remark would appear to be Catherine Charlotte de Gramont (1639-1738) who was Princess of Monaco as the wife of Louis I of Monaco.




The Princesse de Monaco, who was generous with her favors, was heard
to remark gaily of Louis’s penis that, although his power was great,
his scepter was very small, unlike that of his cousin Charles of
England.




Source: Lisa Hilton, 'Athenais: The Life of Louis XIV's Mistress, the Real Queen of France'



The attribution to the Princess of Monaco also appears in a 2015 article in Le Point




Après quelques accouchements, direction Paris où elle
décroche une place d’honneur dans la suite d’Henriette d’Orléans,
l’épouse du frère du roi.... si l’on en croit le compte rendu de la princesse
de Monaco elle-même, qui affirmait que la puissance du roi était
grande, "mais son sceptre tout petit, contrairement à son cousin
Charles d’Angleterre".




Translation: After a few deliveries [i.e. the births of her children with Louis I], she went to Paris where she landed a place of honor in the suite of Henriette d'Orléans, the wife of the king's brother.... the account of the Princess of Monaco herself, who claimed that the power of the king was great, "but his sceptre is very small, unlike his cousin Charles of England".



enter image description here



Catherine-Charlotte de Gramont. Public domain



Catherine-Charlotte de Gramont was Louis XIV's mistress for a few months in 1666 and / or 1667; the affair ended when Catherine's ongoing liaisons with her cousin, Antoine Nompar de Caumont (comte de Puyguilhem), and Armand de Gramont (comte de Guiche) threatened to embroil the French king in more scandal than even the court at Versailles could handle. However, while Catherine's observations on Louis XIV's 'sceptre' came from personal experience, there does not appear to be any evidence that she ever had affair with Charles II of England. It's not hard to imagine, though, that she picked this up from court gossip and, perhaps used it spitefully (as noted below by LangLangC's citation of Antonia Fraser) when she was banished from the court in 1668 for yet another affair.




As LangLangC has pointed out in a comment below, this is hearsay - but that may well be all we have. Neither of two contemporary sources, The memoirs of the Duke of Saint-Simon on the reign of Louis XIV and the regency nor the three volume Memoirs of Mademoiselle de Montpensier (vol. 1, vol. 2, vol. 3) make any mention of this quote.



The Princess' supposed remark is mentioned in Jean Teulé's 2008 historical novel Le Montespan, a copy of which can be downloaded for free here. The book won the Grand Prix du roman historique, though presumably more for its literary merits than historical accuracy.






share|improve this answer






















  • 2





    "The Princesse spitefully marked her failure to establish something more permanent by describing the King's 'sceptre' as 'very' small' - or so she said" That makes her not the author of that remark, but the journalist? After all, this seems to be hearsay from the beginning and the exact quote from the newspaper it seems not to be?

    – LangLangC
    Jul 30 at 12:44






  • 1





    The above quote is from Antonia Fraser and she references your src as well as SaintSimon III (1967) p463, can you access that or: Vincent Pitts: "La Grande Mademoiselle at the Court of France : 1627-1693" (2000)?

    – LangLangC
    Jul 30 at 12:51






  • 2





    It was just "the shrinkage" as George Louis Costanza might have said.

    – Pieter Geerkens
    Jul 30 at 13:25






  • 1





    @DenisdeBernardy Unfortunately not but interesting question. I'm still digging, though.

    – Lars Bosteen
    Jul 30 at 13:49






  • 2





    @PieterGeerkens - "Les Shrinkage"

    – T.E.D.
    Jul 30 at 20:04













Your Answer








StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "324"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);

else
createEditor();

);

function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);



);













draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fhistory.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f53918%2fwho-said-one-can-be-a-powerful-king-with-a-very-small-sceptre%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









11














The 'author' of this interesting remark would appear to be Catherine Charlotte de Gramont (1639-1738) who was Princess of Monaco as the wife of Louis I of Monaco.




The Princesse de Monaco, who was generous with her favors, was heard
to remark gaily of Louis’s penis that, although his power was great,
his scepter was very small, unlike that of his cousin Charles of
England.




Source: Lisa Hilton, 'Athenais: The Life of Louis XIV's Mistress, the Real Queen of France'



The attribution to the Princess of Monaco also appears in a 2015 article in Le Point




Après quelques accouchements, direction Paris où elle
décroche une place d’honneur dans la suite d’Henriette d’Orléans,
l’épouse du frère du roi.... si l’on en croit le compte rendu de la princesse
de Monaco elle-même, qui affirmait que la puissance du roi était
grande, "mais son sceptre tout petit, contrairement à son cousin
Charles d’Angleterre".




Translation: After a few deliveries [i.e. the births of her children with Louis I], she went to Paris where she landed a place of honor in the suite of Henriette d'Orléans, the wife of the king's brother.... the account of the Princess of Monaco herself, who claimed that the power of the king was great, "but his sceptre is very small, unlike his cousin Charles of England".



enter image description here



Catherine-Charlotte de Gramont. Public domain



Catherine-Charlotte de Gramont was Louis XIV's mistress for a few months in 1666 and / or 1667; the affair ended when Catherine's ongoing liaisons with her cousin, Antoine Nompar de Caumont (comte de Puyguilhem), and Armand de Gramont (comte de Guiche) threatened to embroil the French king in more scandal than even the court at Versailles could handle. However, while Catherine's observations on Louis XIV's 'sceptre' came from personal experience, there does not appear to be any evidence that she ever had affair with Charles II of England. It's not hard to imagine, though, that she picked this up from court gossip and, perhaps used it spitefully (as noted below by LangLangC's citation of Antonia Fraser) when she was banished from the court in 1668 for yet another affair.




As LangLangC has pointed out in a comment below, this is hearsay - but that may well be all we have. Neither of two contemporary sources, The memoirs of the Duke of Saint-Simon on the reign of Louis XIV and the regency nor the three volume Memoirs of Mademoiselle de Montpensier (vol. 1, vol. 2, vol. 3) make any mention of this quote.



The Princess' supposed remark is mentioned in Jean Teulé's 2008 historical novel Le Montespan, a copy of which can be downloaded for free here. The book won the Grand Prix du roman historique, though presumably more for its literary merits than historical accuracy.






share|improve this answer






















  • 2





    "The Princesse spitefully marked her failure to establish something more permanent by describing the King's 'sceptre' as 'very' small' - or so she said" That makes her not the author of that remark, but the journalist? After all, this seems to be hearsay from the beginning and the exact quote from the newspaper it seems not to be?

    – LangLangC
    Jul 30 at 12:44






  • 1





    The above quote is from Antonia Fraser and she references your src as well as SaintSimon III (1967) p463, can you access that or: Vincent Pitts: "La Grande Mademoiselle at the Court of France : 1627-1693" (2000)?

    – LangLangC
    Jul 30 at 12:51






  • 2





    It was just "the shrinkage" as George Louis Costanza might have said.

    – Pieter Geerkens
    Jul 30 at 13:25






  • 1





    @DenisdeBernardy Unfortunately not but interesting question. I'm still digging, though.

    – Lars Bosteen
    Jul 30 at 13:49






  • 2





    @PieterGeerkens - "Les Shrinkage"

    – T.E.D.
    Jul 30 at 20:04















11














The 'author' of this interesting remark would appear to be Catherine Charlotte de Gramont (1639-1738) who was Princess of Monaco as the wife of Louis I of Monaco.




The Princesse de Monaco, who was generous with her favors, was heard
to remark gaily of Louis’s penis that, although his power was great,
his scepter was very small, unlike that of his cousin Charles of
England.




Source: Lisa Hilton, 'Athenais: The Life of Louis XIV's Mistress, the Real Queen of France'



The attribution to the Princess of Monaco also appears in a 2015 article in Le Point




Après quelques accouchements, direction Paris où elle
décroche une place d’honneur dans la suite d’Henriette d’Orléans,
l’épouse du frère du roi.... si l’on en croit le compte rendu de la princesse
de Monaco elle-même, qui affirmait que la puissance du roi était
grande, "mais son sceptre tout petit, contrairement à son cousin
Charles d’Angleterre".




Translation: After a few deliveries [i.e. the births of her children with Louis I], she went to Paris where she landed a place of honor in the suite of Henriette d'Orléans, the wife of the king's brother.... the account of the Princess of Monaco herself, who claimed that the power of the king was great, "but his sceptre is very small, unlike his cousin Charles of England".



enter image description here



Catherine-Charlotte de Gramont. Public domain



Catherine-Charlotte de Gramont was Louis XIV's mistress for a few months in 1666 and / or 1667; the affair ended when Catherine's ongoing liaisons with her cousin, Antoine Nompar de Caumont (comte de Puyguilhem), and Armand de Gramont (comte de Guiche) threatened to embroil the French king in more scandal than even the court at Versailles could handle. However, while Catherine's observations on Louis XIV's 'sceptre' came from personal experience, there does not appear to be any evidence that she ever had affair with Charles II of England. It's not hard to imagine, though, that she picked this up from court gossip and, perhaps used it spitefully (as noted below by LangLangC's citation of Antonia Fraser) when she was banished from the court in 1668 for yet another affair.




As LangLangC has pointed out in a comment below, this is hearsay - but that may well be all we have. Neither of two contemporary sources, The memoirs of the Duke of Saint-Simon on the reign of Louis XIV and the regency nor the three volume Memoirs of Mademoiselle de Montpensier (vol. 1, vol. 2, vol. 3) make any mention of this quote.



The Princess' supposed remark is mentioned in Jean Teulé's 2008 historical novel Le Montespan, a copy of which can be downloaded for free here. The book won the Grand Prix du roman historique, though presumably more for its literary merits than historical accuracy.






share|improve this answer






















  • 2





    "The Princesse spitefully marked her failure to establish something more permanent by describing the King's 'sceptre' as 'very' small' - or so she said" That makes her not the author of that remark, but the journalist? After all, this seems to be hearsay from the beginning and the exact quote from the newspaper it seems not to be?

    – LangLangC
    Jul 30 at 12:44






  • 1





    The above quote is from Antonia Fraser and she references your src as well as SaintSimon III (1967) p463, can you access that or: Vincent Pitts: "La Grande Mademoiselle at the Court of France : 1627-1693" (2000)?

    – LangLangC
    Jul 30 at 12:51






  • 2





    It was just "the shrinkage" as George Louis Costanza might have said.

    – Pieter Geerkens
    Jul 30 at 13:25






  • 1





    @DenisdeBernardy Unfortunately not but interesting question. I'm still digging, though.

    – Lars Bosteen
    Jul 30 at 13:49






  • 2





    @PieterGeerkens - "Les Shrinkage"

    – T.E.D.
    Jul 30 at 20:04













11












11








11







The 'author' of this interesting remark would appear to be Catherine Charlotte de Gramont (1639-1738) who was Princess of Monaco as the wife of Louis I of Monaco.




The Princesse de Monaco, who was generous with her favors, was heard
to remark gaily of Louis’s penis that, although his power was great,
his scepter was very small, unlike that of his cousin Charles of
England.




Source: Lisa Hilton, 'Athenais: The Life of Louis XIV's Mistress, the Real Queen of France'



The attribution to the Princess of Monaco also appears in a 2015 article in Le Point




Après quelques accouchements, direction Paris où elle
décroche une place d’honneur dans la suite d’Henriette d’Orléans,
l’épouse du frère du roi.... si l’on en croit le compte rendu de la princesse
de Monaco elle-même, qui affirmait que la puissance du roi était
grande, "mais son sceptre tout petit, contrairement à son cousin
Charles d’Angleterre".




Translation: After a few deliveries [i.e. the births of her children with Louis I], she went to Paris where she landed a place of honor in the suite of Henriette d'Orléans, the wife of the king's brother.... the account of the Princess of Monaco herself, who claimed that the power of the king was great, "but his sceptre is very small, unlike his cousin Charles of England".



enter image description here



Catherine-Charlotte de Gramont. Public domain



Catherine-Charlotte de Gramont was Louis XIV's mistress for a few months in 1666 and / or 1667; the affair ended when Catherine's ongoing liaisons with her cousin, Antoine Nompar de Caumont (comte de Puyguilhem), and Armand de Gramont (comte de Guiche) threatened to embroil the French king in more scandal than even the court at Versailles could handle. However, while Catherine's observations on Louis XIV's 'sceptre' came from personal experience, there does not appear to be any evidence that she ever had affair with Charles II of England. It's not hard to imagine, though, that she picked this up from court gossip and, perhaps used it spitefully (as noted below by LangLangC's citation of Antonia Fraser) when she was banished from the court in 1668 for yet another affair.




As LangLangC has pointed out in a comment below, this is hearsay - but that may well be all we have. Neither of two contemporary sources, The memoirs of the Duke of Saint-Simon on the reign of Louis XIV and the regency nor the three volume Memoirs of Mademoiselle de Montpensier (vol. 1, vol. 2, vol. 3) make any mention of this quote.



The Princess' supposed remark is mentioned in Jean Teulé's 2008 historical novel Le Montespan, a copy of which can be downloaded for free here. The book won the Grand Prix du roman historique, though presumably more for its literary merits than historical accuracy.






share|improve this answer















The 'author' of this interesting remark would appear to be Catherine Charlotte de Gramont (1639-1738) who was Princess of Monaco as the wife of Louis I of Monaco.




The Princesse de Monaco, who was generous with her favors, was heard
to remark gaily of Louis’s penis that, although his power was great,
his scepter was very small, unlike that of his cousin Charles of
England.




Source: Lisa Hilton, 'Athenais: The Life of Louis XIV's Mistress, the Real Queen of France'



The attribution to the Princess of Monaco also appears in a 2015 article in Le Point




Après quelques accouchements, direction Paris où elle
décroche une place d’honneur dans la suite d’Henriette d’Orléans,
l’épouse du frère du roi.... si l’on en croit le compte rendu de la princesse
de Monaco elle-même, qui affirmait que la puissance du roi était
grande, "mais son sceptre tout petit, contrairement à son cousin
Charles d’Angleterre".




Translation: After a few deliveries [i.e. the births of her children with Louis I], she went to Paris where she landed a place of honor in the suite of Henriette d'Orléans, the wife of the king's brother.... the account of the Princess of Monaco herself, who claimed that the power of the king was great, "but his sceptre is very small, unlike his cousin Charles of England".



enter image description here



Catherine-Charlotte de Gramont. Public domain



Catherine-Charlotte de Gramont was Louis XIV's mistress for a few months in 1666 and / or 1667; the affair ended when Catherine's ongoing liaisons with her cousin, Antoine Nompar de Caumont (comte de Puyguilhem), and Armand de Gramont (comte de Guiche) threatened to embroil the French king in more scandal than even the court at Versailles could handle. However, while Catherine's observations on Louis XIV's 'sceptre' came from personal experience, there does not appear to be any evidence that she ever had affair with Charles II of England. It's not hard to imagine, though, that she picked this up from court gossip and, perhaps used it spitefully (as noted below by LangLangC's citation of Antonia Fraser) when she was banished from the court in 1668 for yet another affair.




As LangLangC has pointed out in a comment below, this is hearsay - but that may well be all we have. Neither of two contemporary sources, The memoirs of the Duke of Saint-Simon on the reign of Louis XIV and the regency nor the three volume Memoirs of Mademoiselle de Montpensier (vol. 1, vol. 2, vol. 3) make any mention of this quote.



The Princess' supposed remark is mentioned in Jean Teulé's 2008 historical novel Le Montespan, a copy of which can be downloaded for free here. The book won the Grand Prix du roman historique, though presumably more for its literary merits than historical accuracy.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited Jul 31 at 2:27

























answered Jul 30 at 12:39









Lars BosteenLars Bosteen

53.2k11 gold badges237 silver badges321 bronze badges




53.2k11 gold badges237 silver badges321 bronze badges










  • 2





    "The Princesse spitefully marked her failure to establish something more permanent by describing the King's 'sceptre' as 'very' small' - or so she said" That makes her not the author of that remark, but the journalist? After all, this seems to be hearsay from the beginning and the exact quote from the newspaper it seems not to be?

    – LangLangC
    Jul 30 at 12:44






  • 1





    The above quote is from Antonia Fraser and she references your src as well as SaintSimon III (1967) p463, can you access that or: Vincent Pitts: "La Grande Mademoiselle at the Court of France : 1627-1693" (2000)?

    – LangLangC
    Jul 30 at 12:51






  • 2





    It was just "the shrinkage" as George Louis Costanza might have said.

    – Pieter Geerkens
    Jul 30 at 13:25






  • 1





    @DenisdeBernardy Unfortunately not but interesting question. I'm still digging, though.

    – Lars Bosteen
    Jul 30 at 13:49






  • 2





    @PieterGeerkens - "Les Shrinkage"

    – T.E.D.
    Jul 30 at 20:04












  • 2





    "The Princesse spitefully marked her failure to establish something more permanent by describing the King's 'sceptre' as 'very' small' - or so she said" That makes her not the author of that remark, but the journalist? After all, this seems to be hearsay from the beginning and the exact quote from the newspaper it seems not to be?

    – LangLangC
    Jul 30 at 12:44






  • 1





    The above quote is from Antonia Fraser and she references your src as well as SaintSimon III (1967) p463, can you access that or: Vincent Pitts: "La Grande Mademoiselle at the Court of France : 1627-1693" (2000)?

    – LangLangC
    Jul 30 at 12:51






  • 2





    It was just "the shrinkage" as George Louis Costanza might have said.

    – Pieter Geerkens
    Jul 30 at 13:25






  • 1





    @DenisdeBernardy Unfortunately not but interesting question. I'm still digging, though.

    – Lars Bosteen
    Jul 30 at 13:49






  • 2





    @PieterGeerkens - "Les Shrinkage"

    – T.E.D.
    Jul 30 at 20:04







2




2





"The Princesse spitefully marked her failure to establish something more permanent by describing the King's 'sceptre' as 'very' small' - or so she said" That makes her not the author of that remark, but the journalist? After all, this seems to be hearsay from the beginning and the exact quote from the newspaper it seems not to be?

– LangLangC
Jul 30 at 12:44





"The Princesse spitefully marked her failure to establish something more permanent by describing the King's 'sceptre' as 'very' small' - or so she said" That makes her not the author of that remark, but the journalist? After all, this seems to be hearsay from the beginning and the exact quote from the newspaper it seems not to be?

– LangLangC
Jul 30 at 12:44




1




1





The above quote is from Antonia Fraser and she references your src as well as SaintSimon III (1967) p463, can you access that or: Vincent Pitts: "La Grande Mademoiselle at the Court of France : 1627-1693" (2000)?

– LangLangC
Jul 30 at 12:51





The above quote is from Antonia Fraser and she references your src as well as SaintSimon III (1967) p463, can you access that or: Vincent Pitts: "La Grande Mademoiselle at the Court of France : 1627-1693" (2000)?

– LangLangC
Jul 30 at 12:51




2




2





It was just "the shrinkage" as George Louis Costanza might have said.

– Pieter Geerkens
Jul 30 at 13:25





It was just "the shrinkage" as George Louis Costanza might have said.

– Pieter Geerkens
Jul 30 at 13:25




1




1





@DenisdeBernardy Unfortunately not but interesting question. I'm still digging, though.

– Lars Bosteen
Jul 30 at 13:49





@DenisdeBernardy Unfortunately not but interesting question. I'm still digging, though.

– Lars Bosteen
Jul 30 at 13:49




2




2





@PieterGeerkens - "Les Shrinkage"

– T.E.D.
Jul 30 at 20:04





@PieterGeerkens - "Les Shrinkage"

– T.E.D.
Jul 30 at 20:04

















draft saved

draft discarded
















































Thanks for contributing an answer to History Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid


  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fhistory.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f53918%2fwho-said-one-can-be-a-powerful-king-with-a-very-small-sceptre%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

Get product attribute by attribute group code in magento 2get product attribute by product attribute group in magento 2Magento 2 Log Bundle Product Data in List Page?How to get all product attribute of a attribute group of Default attribute set?Magento 2.1 Create a filter in the product grid by new attributeMagento 2 : Get Product Attribute values By GroupMagento 2 How to get all existing values for one attributeMagento 2 get custom attribute of a single product inside a pluginMagento 2.3 How to get all the Multi Source Inventory (MSI) locations collection in custom module?Magento2: how to develop rest API to get new productsGet product attribute by attribute group code ( [attribute_group_code] ) in magento 2

Category:9 (number) SubcategoriesMedia in category "9 (number)"Navigation menuUpload mediaGND ID: 4485639-8Library of Congress authority ID: sh85091979ReasonatorScholiaStatistics

Magento 2.3: How do i solve this, Not registered handle, on custom form?How can i rewrite TierPrice Block in Magento2magento 2 captcha not rendering if I override layout xmlmain.CRITICAL: Plugin class doesn't existMagento 2 : Problem while adding custom button order view page?Magento 2.2.5: Overriding Admin Controller sales/orderMagento 2.2.5: Add, Update and Delete existing products Custom OptionsMagento 2.3 : File Upload issue in UI Component FormMagento2 Not registered handleHow to configured Form Builder Js in my custom magento 2.3.0 module?Magento 2.3. How to create image upload field in an admin form