Does surprise arrest existing movement? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)When exactly does combat start and surprise take effect?How does initiative work when teleporting into combat?False Appearance, Movement, Surprise, and the Unseen Attacker bonusWhat happens with a surprise round in this situation?Would changing Surprise to just give Disadvantage on Initiative checks overlap with any existing sources of Disadvantage?How Does Surprise Work With Multiple Attackers?Does surprise begin during the planning of an ambush?How often does a bugbear's Surprise Attack trait trigger?When being Unaware ends after surprise round?When exactly does combat start and surprise take effect?How does surprise affect AC?How does surprise work in Vampire combat?

How can I use the Python library networkx from Mathematica?

Wu formula for manifolds with boundary

Is "Reachable Object" really an NP-complete problem?

Circuit to "zoom in" on mV fluctuations of a DC signal?

Can an alien society believe that their star system is the universe?

Does classifying an integer as a discrete log require it be part of a multiplicative group?

What does this Jacques Hadamard quote mean?

For a new assistant professor in CS, how to build/manage a publication pipeline

8 Prisoners wearing hats

Can a new player join a group only when a new campaign starts?

Can you use the Shield Master feat to shove someone before you make an attack by using a Readied action?

2001: A Space Odyssey's use of the song "Daisy Bell" (Bicycle Built for Two); life imitates art or vice-versa?

What's the meaning of "fortified infraction restraint"?

Why are the trig functions versine, haversine, exsecant, etc, rarely used in modern mathematics?

Is CEO the profession with the most psychopaths?

What causes the direction of lightning flashes?

Is it ethical to give a final exam after the professor has quit before teaching the remaining chapters of the course?

old style "caution" boxes

Fantasy story; one type of magic grows in power with use, but the more powerful they are, they more they are drawn to travel to their source

Using audio cues to encourage good posture

また usage in a dictionary

Why didn't Eitri join the fight?

Do I really need recursive chmod to restrict access to a folder?

Why aren't air breathing engines used as small first stages



Does surprise arrest existing movement?



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)When exactly does combat start and surprise take effect?How does initiative work when teleporting into combat?False Appearance, Movement, Surprise, and the Unseen Attacker bonusWhat happens with a surprise round in this situation?Would changing Surprise to just give Disadvantage on Initiative checks overlap with any existing sources of Disadvantage?How Does Surprise Work With Multiple Attackers?Does surprise begin during the planning of an ambush?How often does a bugbear's Surprise Attack trait trigger?When being Unaware ends after surprise round?When exactly does combat start and surprise take effect?How does surprise affect AC?How does surprise work in Vampire combat?



.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








12












$begingroup$


Do surprised creatures which were already moving prior to being surprised keep moving, or stop moving for a round?



Some illustrative situations might be:



  • A carriage drawn by four horses is heading down a road at 60 feet/round. The carriage is ambushed by previously unseen goblins, and the driver and horses are Surprised. Does the carriage stay exactly where it is on the round they are all surprised, or does it continue 60 feet in the direction it was going?

  • PCs cast Gate on a dragon rider mid-flight. The rider is drawn through the portal. Their dragon is Surprised. On the round it's surprised, does it hover at the position in the air the Gate is, or does it continue flying?









share|improve this question









$endgroup$







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Is this a situation that is causing an issue or knock-on effects with other rules?
    $endgroup$
    – PJRZ
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    possibly related: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/124807/…
    $endgroup$
    – Raj
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    @PJRZ it's as yet caused no issues in my game, but I see the potential for some arising. In particular the second example might come up, and I am looking for clarification whether surprise really is effectively a magic paralysis condition that holds that dragon stationary, or just "can't react to the new information yet".
    $endgroup$
    – Vigil
    2 days ago

















12












$begingroup$


Do surprised creatures which were already moving prior to being surprised keep moving, or stop moving for a round?



Some illustrative situations might be:



  • A carriage drawn by four horses is heading down a road at 60 feet/round. The carriage is ambushed by previously unseen goblins, and the driver and horses are Surprised. Does the carriage stay exactly where it is on the round they are all surprised, or does it continue 60 feet in the direction it was going?

  • PCs cast Gate on a dragon rider mid-flight. The rider is drawn through the portal. Their dragon is Surprised. On the round it's surprised, does it hover at the position in the air the Gate is, or does it continue flying?









share|improve this question









$endgroup$







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Is this a situation that is causing an issue or knock-on effects with other rules?
    $endgroup$
    – PJRZ
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    possibly related: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/124807/…
    $endgroup$
    – Raj
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    @PJRZ it's as yet caused no issues in my game, but I see the potential for some arising. In particular the second example might come up, and I am looking for clarification whether surprise really is effectively a magic paralysis condition that holds that dragon stationary, or just "can't react to the new information yet".
    $endgroup$
    – Vigil
    2 days ago













12












12








12





$begingroup$


Do surprised creatures which were already moving prior to being surprised keep moving, or stop moving for a round?



Some illustrative situations might be:



  • A carriage drawn by four horses is heading down a road at 60 feet/round. The carriage is ambushed by previously unseen goblins, and the driver and horses are Surprised. Does the carriage stay exactly where it is on the round they are all surprised, or does it continue 60 feet in the direction it was going?

  • PCs cast Gate on a dragon rider mid-flight. The rider is drawn through the portal. Their dragon is Surprised. On the round it's surprised, does it hover at the position in the air the Gate is, or does it continue flying?









share|improve this question









$endgroup$




Do surprised creatures which were already moving prior to being surprised keep moving, or stop moving for a round?



Some illustrative situations might be:



  • A carriage drawn by four horses is heading down a road at 60 feet/round. The carriage is ambushed by previously unseen goblins, and the driver and horses are Surprised. Does the carriage stay exactly where it is on the round they are all surprised, or does it continue 60 feet in the direction it was going?

  • PCs cast Gate on a dragon rider mid-flight. The rider is drawn through the portal. Their dragon is Surprised. On the round it's surprised, does it hover at the position in the air the Gate is, or does it continue flying?






dnd-5e movement surprise






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked 2 days ago









VigilVigil

7,0683286




7,0683286







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Is this a situation that is causing an issue or knock-on effects with other rules?
    $endgroup$
    – PJRZ
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    possibly related: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/124807/…
    $endgroup$
    – Raj
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    @PJRZ it's as yet caused no issues in my game, but I see the potential for some arising. In particular the second example might come up, and I am looking for clarification whether surprise really is effectively a magic paralysis condition that holds that dragon stationary, or just "can't react to the new information yet".
    $endgroup$
    – Vigil
    2 days ago












  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Is this a situation that is causing an issue or knock-on effects with other rules?
    $endgroup$
    – PJRZ
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    possibly related: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/124807/…
    $endgroup$
    – Raj
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    @PJRZ it's as yet caused no issues in my game, but I see the potential for some arising. In particular the second example might come up, and I am looking for clarification whether surprise really is effectively a magic paralysis condition that holds that dragon stationary, or just "can't react to the new information yet".
    $endgroup$
    – Vigil
    2 days ago







1




1




$begingroup$
Is this a situation that is causing an issue or knock-on effects with other rules?
$endgroup$
– PJRZ
2 days ago




$begingroup$
Is this a situation that is causing an issue or knock-on effects with other rules?
$endgroup$
– PJRZ
2 days ago












$begingroup$
possibly related: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/124807/…
$endgroup$
– Raj
2 days ago




$begingroup$
possibly related: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/124807/…
$endgroup$
– Raj
2 days ago












$begingroup$
@PJRZ it's as yet caused no issues in my game, but I see the potential for some arising. In particular the second example might come up, and I am looking for clarification whether surprise really is effectively a magic paralysis condition that holds that dragon stationary, or just "can't react to the new information yet".
$endgroup$
– Vigil
2 days ago




$begingroup$
@PJRZ it's as yet caused no issues in my game, but I see the potential for some arising. In particular the second example might come up, and I am looking for clarification whether surprise really is effectively a magic paralysis condition that holds that dragon stationary, or just "can't react to the new information yet".
$endgroup$
– Vigil
2 days ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















19












$begingroup$

RAW: Yes, and that's fine



The relevant excerpt from the Player's Handbook (p. 189):




If you're surprised, you can't move or take an action
on your first turn of the combat, and you can't take a
reaction until that turn ends.




Which would mean a creature which for whatever reason was moving before Initiative was rolled, does not move during its first turn (the turn on which it was surprised). This might seem odd at first, however, it is an artefact of what initiative order, and surprise, is trying to emulate.



The typical scenario is one party (the aggressors) initiates on another party which did not know about them. The aggressors have the opportunity to choose exactly when they attack, and so have one round (a span of 6 seconds) to act before "normal" combat resumes.



Let's use the moving horse and cart as an example. The aggressors decide to attack as the cart passes them as so Initiative starts with the cart by the party, surprised and "stationary". The alternatives to using Initiative/Surprise in this fashion leave the success of such ambushes up to the Initiative roll.
For the dragon example, the casting of gate should happen on the first roll of initiative. Otherwise for much the same reason.



The key is that residual movement of the first turn of initiative is abstracted away, such that the creatures are during that round where the aggressors wanted them for their planned attack. As a more general note Initiative, Turns and Rounds should not be considered too closely. Everything that happens during a round is narratively happening semi-simultaneously during the span of 6 seconds. This is a way for a game to handle that.



If you would like to have a cart continue moving even though they (horses, drivers, the mimic under the seat, etc.) are surprised, that is doable, just make sure it does not break the ambush that is planned. The aggressor has the agency to strike precisely when they wish to, and so should be able to start initiative as is most convenient to them. There is so much DM fiat in when to roll initiative and who are surprised, that minor modifications like this should not be an issue.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    I think this is a good answer and especially like the justification of "most convenient to the ambushers".
    $endgroup$
    – Vigil
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    As a minor point, answers to rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/144946/… would indicate the Gate would actually happen prior to initiative being rolled.
    $endgroup$
    – Vigil
    2 days ago


















14












$begingroup$

Generally speaking, while in initiative order, creatures do not move when it is not their turn



Before I continue, I just want to make sure it doesn't go unstated that there are obvious exceptions:



  • Using the Ready Action and choosing to move when using their Reaction, instead of taking an Action

  • Being moved by an external force, like a spell or someone using the Shove Attack Action (possibly relevant!)

  • Otherwise have a feature that causes them to move (maybe a boss monster's Legendary Action?)

  • Possibly some other specific circumstance

But setting those exceptions aside, a creature should stay in place until its turn begins.



So if a creature is surprised (or enters combat normally!), it should generally not move anywhere until one of its turns comes up while not surprised. If a creature is moving when it gets surprised, then it stops moving until a non-surprised turn comes up for that creature.



This makes sense: Surprise is generally an abstraction for a group of creatures getting an extra chance to get some damage in before anyone on the receiving end has had a chance to react. It might seem weird for the cart to stand in place for what is nearly 6 whole seconds, but that is the nominal benefit that Surprise is supposed to confer.



Alternatively, there's ways to work around this if, as DM, you don't like this mechanic.



Alternative: The horse-drawn carriage



Any time I'm dealing with a vehicle that is, in Principle, autonomously driven—I would nominally consider a Horse-Drawn carriage to constitute as such—I usually just assign it an Initiative Order of 20 or 1, and have the vehicle (and anything/anyone on it) move X feet on that initiative count as a Lair Action for this encounter.



If you're unfamiliar with Lair Actions, I suggest looking at some of the Boss-tier monsters in the Monster Manual, who often have Lair Actions that occur at specific initiative counts, usually 20 or 1. For example, see the Ancient Black Dragon, on page 87 of the Monster Manual.



So in this case, I might cause the carriage to move forwards at its listed speed every time the Initiative count reaches 1. For the creatures that are Surprising the cart, this gives them a chance to



  • Attack the wheels, slowing or stopping the carriage

  • Attack the horses, injuring them or causing them to break free from control

  • Climb onto the cart, so that it moves them with the cart

All of which give them a chance to take actions without artificially interrupting the movement of the cart.



The Dragon Rider



In this case, the dragon is usually considered the "Mount" of the creature who was riding it; its initiative would be the same as the rider, and occur right after it in the Initiative Order. The dragon would be frozen in place for the turn it is surprised, and remain there until its next, non-surprised turn comes up. You could apply the previous rule I suggested to the dragon, but given the dragon is (I'm assuming) a sapient creature, it's probably better to just apply the normal rules for Surprise.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    That's a really good use of lair actions.
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Wells
    2 days ago











Your Answer








StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "122"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);

else
createEditor();

);

function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);



);













draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f145251%2fdoes-surprise-arrest-existing-movement%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









19












$begingroup$

RAW: Yes, and that's fine



The relevant excerpt from the Player's Handbook (p. 189):




If you're surprised, you can't move or take an action
on your first turn of the combat, and you can't take a
reaction until that turn ends.




Which would mean a creature which for whatever reason was moving before Initiative was rolled, does not move during its first turn (the turn on which it was surprised). This might seem odd at first, however, it is an artefact of what initiative order, and surprise, is trying to emulate.



The typical scenario is one party (the aggressors) initiates on another party which did not know about them. The aggressors have the opportunity to choose exactly when they attack, and so have one round (a span of 6 seconds) to act before "normal" combat resumes.



Let's use the moving horse and cart as an example. The aggressors decide to attack as the cart passes them as so Initiative starts with the cart by the party, surprised and "stationary". The alternatives to using Initiative/Surprise in this fashion leave the success of such ambushes up to the Initiative roll.
For the dragon example, the casting of gate should happen on the first roll of initiative. Otherwise for much the same reason.



The key is that residual movement of the first turn of initiative is abstracted away, such that the creatures are during that round where the aggressors wanted them for their planned attack. As a more general note Initiative, Turns and Rounds should not be considered too closely. Everything that happens during a round is narratively happening semi-simultaneously during the span of 6 seconds. This is a way for a game to handle that.



If you would like to have a cart continue moving even though they (horses, drivers, the mimic under the seat, etc.) are surprised, that is doable, just make sure it does not break the ambush that is planned. The aggressor has the agency to strike precisely when they wish to, and so should be able to start initiative as is most convenient to them. There is so much DM fiat in when to roll initiative and who are surprised, that minor modifications like this should not be an issue.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    I think this is a good answer and especially like the justification of "most convenient to the ambushers".
    $endgroup$
    – Vigil
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    As a minor point, answers to rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/144946/… would indicate the Gate would actually happen prior to initiative being rolled.
    $endgroup$
    – Vigil
    2 days ago















19












$begingroup$

RAW: Yes, and that's fine



The relevant excerpt from the Player's Handbook (p. 189):




If you're surprised, you can't move or take an action
on your first turn of the combat, and you can't take a
reaction until that turn ends.




Which would mean a creature which for whatever reason was moving before Initiative was rolled, does not move during its first turn (the turn on which it was surprised). This might seem odd at first, however, it is an artefact of what initiative order, and surprise, is trying to emulate.



The typical scenario is one party (the aggressors) initiates on another party which did not know about them. The aggressors have the opportunity to choose exactly when they attack, and so have one round (a span of 6 seconds) to act before "normal" combat resumes.



Let's use the moving horse and cart as an example. The aggressors decide to attack as the cart passes them as so Initiative starts with the cart by the party, surprised and "stationary". The alternatives to using Initiative/Surprise in this fashion leave the success of such ambushes up to the Initiative roll.
For the dragon example, the casting of gate should happen on the first roll of initiative. Otherwise for much the same reason.



The key is that residual movement of the first turn of initiative is abstracted away, such that the creatures are during that round where the aggressors wanted them for their planned attack. As a more general note Initiative, Turns and Rounds should not be considered too closely. Everything that happens during a round is narratively happening semi-simultaneously during the span of 6 seconds. This is a way for a game to handle that.



If you would like to have a cart continue moving even though they (horses, drivers, the mimic under the seat, etc.) are surprised, that is doable, just make sure it does not break the ambush that is planned. The aggressor has the agency to strike precisely when they wish to, and so should be able to start initiative as is most convenient to them. There is so much DM fiat in when to roll initiative and who are surprised, that minor modifications like this should not be an issue.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    I think this is a good answer and especially like the justification of "most convenient to the ambushers".
    $endgroup$
    – Vigil
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    As a minor point, answers to rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/144946/… would indicate the Gate would actually happen prior to initiative being rolled.
    $endgroup$
    – Vigil
    2 days ago













19












19








19





$begingroup$

RAW: Yes, and that's fine



The relevant excerpt from the Player's Handbook (p. 189):




If you're surprised, you can't move or take an action
on your first turn of the combat, and you can't take a
reaction until that turn ends.




Which would mean a creature which for whatever reason was moving before Initiative was rolled, does not move during its first turn (the turn on which it was surprised). This might seem odd at first, however, it is an artefact of what initiative order, and surprise, is trying to emulate.



The typical scenario is one party (the aggressors) initiates on another party which did not know about them. The aggressors have the opportunity to choose exactly when they attack, and so have one round (a span of 6 seconds) to act before "normal" combat resumes.



Let's use the moving horse and cart as an example. The aggressors decide to attack as the cart passes them as so Initiative starts with the cart by the party, surprised and "stationary". The alternatives to using Initiative/Surprise in this fashion leave the success of such ambushes up to the Initiative roll.
For the dragon example, the casting of gate should happen on the first roll of initiative. Otherwise for much the same reason.



The key is that residual movement of the first turn of initiative is abstracted away, such that the creatures are during that round where the aggressors wanted them for their planned attack. As a more general note Initiative, Turns and Rounds should not be considered too closely. Everything that happens during a round is narratively happening semi-simultaneously during the span of 6 seconds. This is a way for a game to handle that.



If you would like to have a cart continue moving even though they (horses, drivers, the mimic under the seat, etc.) are surprised, that is doable, just make sure it does not break the ambush that is planned. The aggressor has the agency to strike precisely when they wish to, and so should be able to start initiative as is most convenient to them. There is so much DM fiat in when to roll initiative and who are surprised, that minor modifications like this should not be an issue.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$



RAW: Yes, and that's fine



The relevant excerpt from the Player's Handbook (p. 189):




If you're surprised, you can't move or take an action
on your first turn of the combat, and you can't take a
reaction until that turn ends.




Which would mean a creature which for whatever reason was moving before Initiative was rolled, does not move during its first turn (the turn on which it was surprised). This might seem odd at first, however, it is an artefact of what initiative order, and surprise, is trying to emulate.



The typical scenario is one party (the aggressors) initiates on another party which did not know about them. The aggressors have the opportunity to choose exactly when they attack, and so have one round (a span of 6 seconds) to act before "normal" combat resumes.



Let's use the moving horse and cart as an example. The aggressors decide to attack as the cart passes them as so Initiative starts with the cart by the party, surprised and "stationary". The alternatives to using Initiative/Surprise in this fashion leave the success of such ambushes up to the Initiative roll.
For the dragon example, the casting of gate should happen on the first roll of initiative. Otherwise for much the same reason.



The key is that residual movement of the first turn of initiative is abstracted away, such that the creatures are during that round where the aggressors wanted them for their planned attack. As a more general note Initiative, Turns and Rounds should not be considered too closely. Everything that happens during a round is narratively happening semi-simultaneously during the span of 6 seconds. This is a way for a game to handle that.



If you would like to have a cart continue moving even though they (horses, drivers, the mimic under the seat, etc.) are surprised, that is doable, just make sure it does not break the ambush that is planned. The aggressor has the agency to strike precisely when they wish to, and so should be able to start initiative as is most convenient to them. There is so much DM fiat in when to roll initiative and who are surprised, that minor modifications like this should not be an issue.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 2 days ago









PixelMaster

13.4k350123




13.4k350123










answered 2 days ago









Someone_EvilSomeone_Evil

2,612626




2,612626











  • $begingroup$
    I think this is a good answer and especially like the justification of "most convenient to the ambushers".
    $endgroup$
    – Vigil
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    As a minor point, answers to rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/144946/… would indicate the Gate would actually happen prior to initiative being rolled.
    $endgroup$
    – Vigil
    2 days ago
















  • $begingroup$
    I think this is a good answer and especially like the justification of "most convenient to the ambushers".
    $endgroup$
    – Vigil
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    As a minor point, answers to rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/144946/… would indicate the Gate would actually happen prior to initiative being rolled.
    $endgroup$
    – Vigil
    2 days ago















$begingroup$
I think this is a good answer and especially like the justification of "most convenient to the ambushers".
$endgroup$
– Vigil
2 days ago




$begingroup$
I think this is a good answer and especially like the justification of "most convenient to the ambushers".
$endgroup$
– Vigil
2 days ago












$begingroup$
As a minor point, answers to rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/144946/… would indicate the Gate would actually happen prior to initiative being rolled.
$endgroup$
– Vigil
2 days ago




$begingroup$
As a minor point, answers to rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/144946/… would indicate the Gate would actually happen prior to initiative being rolled.
$endgroup$
– Vigil
2 days ago













14












$begingroup$

Generally speaking, while in initiative order, creatures do not move when it is not their turn



Before I continue, I just want to make sure it doesn't go unstated that there are obvious exceptions:



  • Using the Ready Action and choosing to move when using their Reaction, instead of taking an Action

  • Being moved by an external force, like a spell or someone using the Shove Attack Action (possibly relevant!)

  • Otherwise have a feature that causes them to move (maybe a boss monster's Legendary Action?)

  • Possibly some other specific circumstance

But setting those exceptions aside, a creature should stay in place until its turn begins.



So if a creature is surprised (or enters combat normally!), it should generally not move anywhere until one of its turns comes up while not surprised. If a creature is moving when it gets surprised, then it stops moving until a non-surprised turn comes up for that creature.



This makes sense: Surprise is generally an abstraction for a group of creatures getting an extra chance to get some damage in before anyone on the receiving end has had a chance to react. It might seem weird for the cart to stand in place for what is nearly 6 whole seconds, but that is the nominal benefit that Surprise is supposed to confer.



Alternatively, there's ways to work around this if, as DM, you don't like this mechanic.



Alternative: The horse-drawn carriage



Any time I'm dealing with a vehicle that is, in Principle, autonomously driven—I would nominally consider a Horse-Drawn carriage to constitute as such—I usually just assign it an Initiative Order of 20 or 1, and have the vehicle (and anything/anyone on it) move X feet on that initiative count as a Lair Action for this encounter.



If you're unfamiliar with Lair Actions, I suggest looking at some of the Boss-tier monsters in the Monster Manual, who often have Lair Actions that occur at specific initiative counts, usually 20 or 1. For example, see the Ancient Black Dragon, on page 87 of the Monster Manual.



So in this case, I might cause the carriage to move forwards at its listed speed every time the Initiative count reaches 1. For the creatures that are Surprising the cart, this gives them a chance to



  • Attack the wheels, slowing or stopping the carriage

  • Attack the horses, injuring them or causing them to break free from control

  • Climb onto the cart, so that it moves them with the cart

All of which give them a chance to take actions without artificially interrupting the movement of the cart.



The Dragon Rider



In this case, the dragon is usually considered the "Mount" of the creature who was riding it; its initiative would be the same as the rider, and occur right after it in the Initiative Order. The dragon would be frozen in place for the turn it is surprised, and remain there until its next, non-surprised turn comes up. You could apply the previous rule I suggested to the dragon, but given the dragon is (I'm assuming) a sapient creature, it's probably better to just apply the normal rules for Surprise.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    That's a really good use of lair actions.
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Wells
    2 days ago















14












$begingroup$

Generally speaking, while in initiative order, creatures do not move when it is not their turn



Before I continue, I just want to make sure it doesn't go unstated that there are obvious exceptions:



  • Using the Ready Action and choosing to move when using their Reaction, instead of taking an Action

  • Being moved by an external force, like a spell or someone using the Shove Attack Action (possibly relevant!)

  • Otherwise have a feature that causes them to move (maybe a boss monster's Legendary Action?)

  • Possibly some other specific circumstance

But setting those exceptions aside, a creature should stay in place until its turn begins.



So if a creature is surprised (or enters combat normally!), it should generally not move anywhere until one of its turns comes up while not surprised. If a creature is moving when it gets surprised, then it stops moving until a non-surprised turn comes up for that creature.



This makes sense: Surprise is generally an abstraction for a group of creatures getting an extra chance to get some damage in before anyone on the receiving end has had a chance to react. It might seem weird for the cart to stand in place for what is nearly 6 whole seconds, but that is the nominal benefit that Surprise is supposed to confer.



Alternatively, there's ways to work around this if, as DM, you don't like this mechanic.



Alternative: The horse-drawn carriage



Any time I'm dealing with a vehicle that is, in Principle, autonomously driven—I would nominally consider a Horse-Drawn carriage to constitute as such—I usually just assign it an Initiative Order of 20 or 1, and have the vehicle (and anything/anyone on it) move X feet on that initiative count as a Lair Action for this encounter.



If you're unfamiliar with Lair Actions, I suggest looking at some of the Boss-tier monsters in the Monster Manual, who often have Lair Actions that occur at specific initiative counts, usually 20 or 1. For example, see the Ancient Black Dragon, on page 87 of the Monster Manual.



So in this case, I might cause the carriage to move forwards at its listed speed every time the Initiative count reaches 1. For the creatures that are Surprising the cart, this gives them a chance to



  • Attack the wheels, slowing or stopping the carriage

  • Attack the horses, injuring them or causing them to break free from control

  • Climb onto the cart, so that it moves them with the cart

All of which give them a chance to take actions without artificially interrupting the movement of the cart.



The Dragon Rider



In this case, the dragon is usually considered the "Mount" of the creature who was riding it; its initiative would be the same as the rider, and occur right after it in the Initiative Order. The dragon would be frozen in place for the turn it is surprised, and remain there until its next, non-surprised turn comes up. You could apply the previous rule I suggested to the dragon, but given the dragon is (I'm assuming) a sapient creature, it's probably better to just apply the normal rules for Surprise.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    That's a really good use of lair actions.
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Wells
    2 days ago













14












14








14





$begingroup$

Generally speaking, while in initiative order, creatures do not move when it is not their turn



Before I continue, I just want to make sure it doesn't go unstated that there are obvious exceptions:



  • Using the Ready Action and choosing to move when using their Reaction, instead of taking an Action

  • Being moved by an external force, like a spell or someone using the Shove Attack Action (possibly relevant!)

  • Otherwise have a feature that causes them to move (maybe a boss monster's Legendary Action?)

  • Possibly some other specific circumstance

But setting those exceptions aside, a creature should stay in place until its turn begins.



So if a creature is surprised (or enters combat normally!), it should generally not move anywhere until one of its turns comes up while not surprised. If a creature is moving when it gets surprised, then it stops moving until a non-surprised turn comes up for that creature.



This makes sense: Surprise is generally an abstraction for a group of creatures getting an extra chance to get some damage in before anyone on the receiving end has had a chance to react. It might seem weird for the cart to stand in place for what is nearly 6 whole seconds, but that is the nominal benefit that Surprise is supposed to confer.



Alternatively, there's ways to work around this if, as DM, you don't like this mechanic.



Alternative: The horse-drawn carriage



Any time I'm dealing with a vehicle that is, in Principle, autonomously driven—I would nominally consider a Horse-Drawn carriage to constitute as such—I usually just assign it an Initiative Order of 20 or 1, and have the vehicle (and anything/anyone on it) move X feet on that initiative count as a Lair Action for this encounter.



If you're unfamiliar with Lair Actions, I suggest looking at some of the Boss-tier monsters in the Monster Manual, who often have Lair Actions that occur at specific initiative counts, usually 20 or 1. For example, see the Ancient Black Dragon, on page 87 of the Monster Manual.



So in this case, I might cause the carriage to move forwards at its listed speed every time the Initiative count reaches 1. For the creatures that are Surprising the cart, this gives them a chance to



  • Attack the wheels, slowing or stopping the carriage

  • Attack the horses, injuring them or causing them to break free from control

  • Climb onto the cart, so that it moves them with the cart

All of which give them a chance to take actions without artificially interrupting the movement of the cart.



The Dragon Rider



In this case, the dragon is usually considered the "Mount" of the creature who was riding it; its initiative would be the same as the rider, and occur right after it in the Initiative Order. The dragon would be frozen in place for the turn it is surprised, and remain there until its next, non-surprised turn comes up. You could apply the previous rule I suggested to the dragon, but given the dragon is (I'm assuming) a sapient creature, it's probably better to just apply the normal rules for Surprise.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$



Generally speaking, while in initiative order, creatures do not move when it is not their turn



Before I continue, I just want to make sure it doesn't go unstated that there are obvious exceptions:



  • Using the Ready Action and choosing to move when using their Reaction, instead of taking an Action

  • Being moved by an external force, like a spell or someone using the Shove Attack Action (possibly relevant!)

  • Otherwise have a feature that causes them to move (maybe a boss monster's Legendary Action?)

  • Possibly some other specific circumstance

But setting those exceptions aside, a creature should stay in place until its turn begins.



So if a creature is surprised (or enters combat normally!), it should generally not move anywhere until one of its turns comes up while not surprised. If a creature is moving when it gets surprised, then it stops moving until a non-surprised turn comes up for that creature.



This makes sense: Surprise is generally an abstraction for a group of creatures getting an extra chance to get some damage in before anyone on the receiving end has had a chance to react. It might seem weird for the cart to stand in place for what is nearly 6 whole seconds, but that is the nominal benefit that Surprise is supposed to confer.



Alternatively, there's ways to work around this if, as DM, you don't like this mechanic.



Alternative: The horse-drawn carriage



Any time I'm dealing with a vehicle that is, in Principle, autonomously driven—I would nominally consider a Horse-Drawn carriage to constitute as such—I usually just assign it an Initiative Order of 20 or 1, and have the vehicle (and anything/anyone on it) move X feet on that initiative count as a Lair Action for this encounter.



If you're unfamiliar with Lair Actions, I suggest looking at some of the Boss-tier monsters in the Monster Manual, who often have Lair Actions that occur at specific initiative counts, usually 20 or 1. For example, see the Ancient Black Dragon, on page 87 of the Monster Manual.



So in this case, I might cause the carriage to move forwards at its listed speed every time the Initiative count reaches 1. For the creatures that are Surprising the cart, this gives them a chance to



  • Attack the wheels, slowing or stopping the carriage

  • Attack the horses, injuring them or causing them to break free from control

  • Climb onto the cart, so that it moves them with the cart

All of which give them a chance to take actions without artificially interrupting the movement of the cart.



The Dragon Rider



In this case, the dragon is usually considered the "Mount" of the creature who was riding it; its initiative would be the same as the rider, and occur right after it in the Initiative Order. The dragon would be frozen in place for the turn it is surprised, and remain there until its next, non-surprised turn comes up. You could apply the previous rule I suggested to the dragon, but given the dragon is (I'm assuming) a sapient creature, it's probably better to just apply the normal rules for Surprise.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 2 days ago









XiremaXirema

24.3k269144




24.3k269144







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    That's a really good use of lair actions.
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Wells
    2 days ago












  • 1




    $begingroup$
    That's a really good use of lair actions.
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Wells
    2 days ago







1




1




$begingroup$
That's a really good use of lair actions.
$endgroup$
– Mark Wells
2 days ago




$begingroup$
That's a really good use of lair actions.
$endgroup$
– Mark Wells
2 days ago

















draft saved

draft discarded
















































Thanks for contributing an answer to Role-playing Games Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid


  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f145251%2fdoes-surprise-arrest-existing-movement%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

Category:9 (number) SubcategoriesMedia in category "9 (number)"Navigation menuUpload mediaGND ID: 4485639-8Library of Congress authority ID: sh85091979ReasonatorScholiaStatistics

Circuit construction for execution of conditional statements using least significant bitHow are two different registers being used as “control”?How exactly is the stated composite state of the two registers being produced using the $R_zz$ controlled rotations?Efficiently performing controlled rotations in HHLWould this quantum algorithm implementation work?How to prepare a superposed states of odd integers from $1$ to $sqrtN$?Why is this implementation of the order finding algorithm not working?Circuit construction for Hamiltonian simulationHow can I invert the least significant bit of a certain term of a superposed state?Implementing an oracleImplementing a controlled sum operation

Magento 2 “No Payment Methods” in Admin New OrderHow to integrate Paypal Express Checkout with the Magento APIMagento 1.5 - Sales > Order > edit order and shipping methods disappearAuto Invoice Check/Money Order Payment methodAdd more simple payment methods?Shipping methods not showingWhat should I do to change payment methods if changing the configuration has no effects?1.9 - No Payment Methods showing upMy Payment Methods not Showing for downloadable/virtual product when checkout?Magento2 API to access internal payment methodHow to call an existing payment methods in the registration form?