Gastric acid as a weapon Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern) The network's official Twitter account is up and running again. What content…Biological adaptations necessary for weaponized (or otherwise made useful) refluxEvolution of a creature that uses light as a weaponCan hydrochloric acid and digestive enzymes cause a fire?Taking all the blood of a dozen humans and putting it into acid – could I create a wolf?Life giving hydrochloric acid (HCl)?What is the deadliest acid a hypothetical biological creature could utilize as a weapon?Acid spraying dragon (of death)!How could an acid-cow make a barrier against acidic milk by synthesizing PTFE, and what would it line?Octopus ink contains micro parasites that act as acidCould a species evolve a defensive ability to excrete a super acid?biologic liquid weapon
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Gastric acid as a weapon
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)
The network's official Twitter account is up and running again. What content…Biological adaptations necessary for weaponized (or otherwise made useful) refluxEvolution of a creature that uses light as a weaponCan hydrochloric acid and digestive enzymes cause a fire?Taking all the blood of a dozen humans and putting it into acid – could I create a wolf?Life giving hydrochloric acid (HCl)?What is the deadliest acid a hypothetical biological creature could utilize as a weapon?Acid spraying dragon (of death)!How could an acid-cow make a barrier against acidic milk by synthesizing PTFE, and what would it line?Octopus ink contains micro parasites that act as acidCould a species evolve a defensive ability to excrete a super acid?biologic liquid weapon
$begingroup$
The dragons in my fantasy world spit fluid from their mouths when threatened, which upon contact causes a burning sensation. I could have this liquid be standard venom, like modified saliva, but I wanted to shake things up a bit.
Could powerful stomach acid be spat as a means of defense and/or attack? My main concern is that it would be either too inefficient or too evolutionarily unlikely that another method of defense would be much more plausible to evolve.
I'm not aware of any duplicates to this question, apologies if I've missed one.
science-based creature-design evolution dragons natural-defenses
asked 2 days ago
SealBoiSealBoi
7,01912571
$endgroup$
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
The dragons in my fantasy world spit fluid from their mouths when threatened, which upon contact causes a burning sensation. I could have this liquid be standard venom, like modified saliva, but I wanted to shake things up a bit.
Could powerful stomach acid be spat as a means of defense and/or attack? My main concern is that it would be either too inefficient or too evolutionarily unlikely that another method of defense would be much more plausible to evolve.
I'm not aware of any duplicates to this question, apologies if I've missed one.
science-based creature-design evolution dragons natural-defenses
asked 2 days ago
SealBoiSealBoi
7,01912571
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I see you're sneaking in three extra questions there ... best practice is to ask one focused question in order to get one good answer. You can always ask follow up questions. But you knew that already! Please edit accordingly.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@elemtilas Fair enough. Question edited.
$endgroup$
– SealBoi
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
Great! Question answered!
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
Related (but not a dupe): worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/q/115804/21222
$endgroup$
– Renan
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
As another alternative, consider the Bombardier Beetle: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_beetle
$endgroup$
– Arkenstein XII
2 days ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
The dragons in my fantasy world spit fluid from their mouths when threatened, which upon contact causes a burning sensation. I could have this liquid be standard venom, like modified saliva, but I wanted to shake things up a bit.
Could powerful stomach acid be spat as a means of defense and/or attack? My main concern is that it would be either too inefficient or too evolutionarily unlikely that another method of defense would be much more plausible to evolve.
I'm not aware of any duplicates to this question, apologies if I've missed one.
science-based creature-design evolution dragons natural-defenses
asked 2 days ago
SealBoiSealBoi
7,01912571
$endgroup$
The dragons in my fantasy world spit fluid from their mouths when threatened, which upon contact causes a burning sensation. I could have this liquid be standard venom, like modified saliva, but I wanted to shake things up a bit.
Could powerful stomach acid be spat as a means of defense and/or attack? My main concern is that it would be either too inefficient or too evolutionarily unlikely that another method of defense would be much more plausible to evolve.
I'm not aware of any duplicates to this question, apologies if I've missed one.
science-based creature-design evolution dragons natural-defenses
science-based creature-design evolution dragons natural-defenses
asked 2 days ago
SealBoiSealBoi
7,01912571
asked 2 days ago
SealBoiSealBoi
7,01912571
edited 2 days ago
SealBoi
asked 2 days ago
SealBoiSealBoi
7,01912571
asked 2 days ago
SealBoiSealBoi
7,01912571
asked 2 days ago
SealBoiSealBoi
7,01912571
7,01912571
$begingroup$
I see you're sneaking in three extra questions there ... best practice is to ask one focused question in order to get one good answer. You can always ask follow up questions. But you knew that already! Please edit accordingly.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@elemtilas Fair enough. Question edited.
$endgroup$
– SealBoi
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
Great! Question answered!
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
Related (but not a dupe): worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/q/115804/21222
$endgroup$
– Renan
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
As another alternative, consider the Bombardier Beetle: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_beetle
$endgroup$
– Arkenstein XII
2 days ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
I see you're sneaking in three extra questions there ... best practice is to ask one focused question in order to get one good answer. You can always ask follow up questions. But you knew that already! Please edit accordingly.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@elemtilas Fair enough. Question edited.
$endgroup$
– SealBoi
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
Great! Question answered!
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
Related (but not a dupe): worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/q/115804/21222
$endgroup$
– Renan
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
As another alternative, consider the Bombardier Beetle: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_beetle
$endgroup$
– Arkenstein XII
2 days ago
$begingroup$
I see you're sneaking in three extra questions there ... best practice is to ask one focused question in order to get one good answer. You can always ask follow up questions. But you knew that already! Please edit accordingly.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
2 days ago
$begingroup$
I see you're sneaking in three extra questions there ... best practice is to ask one focused question in order to get one good answer. You can always ask follow up questions. But you knew that already! Please edit accordingly.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@elemtilas Fair enough. Question edited.
$endgroup$
– SealBoi
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@elemtilas Fair enough. Question edited.
$endgroup$
– SealBoi
2 days ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Great! Question answered!
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Great! Question answered!
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
2 days ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Related (but not a dupe): worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/q/115804/21222
$endgroup$
– Renan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Related (but not a dupe): worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/q/115804/21222
$endgroup$
– Renan
2 days ago
1
1
$begingroup$
As another alternative, consider the Bombardier Beetle: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_beetle
$endgroup$
– Arkenstein XII
2 days ago
$begingroup$
As another alternative, consider the Bombardier Beetle: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_beetle
$endgroup$
– Arkenstein XII
2 days ago
|
show 1 more comment
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
YES
Gastric acid (HCl) can be used as a means of defense or attack. Acid weapons are known in nature. Ants spray formic acid, for example. Some birds, vutlures for example, vomit as means of defense. A number of creatures evert their stomachs in order to clear out yucky things they've eaten.
In the literature, we find this example of gastric acid magic.
Yum. So yes, your dragons could certainly do this as well. If they're large beasts, the effects will probably be quite astonishing.
answered 2 days ago
elemtilaselemtilas
15.2k23465
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Additionally, depending on the diet of the dragon, the acid may have to be more corrosive in order to digest exotic items. This makes sense in an evolutionary perspective.
$endgroup$
– Mathaddict
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
@Mathaddict Indeed! If you look into vultures as a real world exemplar upon which to model the dragon's behaviour, their gastric acid is terribly acidic compared with humans'.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
2 days ago
10
$begingroup$
Love those "Would this crazy outlandish thing be possible somehow?" "Yes, it already exists in nature."
$endgroup$
– Eth
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Also bear in mind that evolutionary pressures could mean it's developed additional acid producing glands to generate extra acid for spitting (i.e. they may not need to vomit to achieve the same effect). And a creature that's evolved to do this will likely have also evolved a way to protect its esophagus from the acid (excess salivation, mitigating compound secretion, etc.).
$endgroup$
– KenLFG
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Could powerful stomach acid be spat as a means of defense and/or attack?
YES but...
The stomach of any organism using acid as digestive liquid is protected against the action of said acid by a thick layer of mucus. The esophagus doesn't have the luxury of this layer, and is thus much more vulnerable to the action of the acid. In fact humans can get esophagus perforation in such cases.
So, if you want your dragon to throw up acid, you need to coat its esophagus with a thick layer of mucus.
However... attacking after lunch would mean emptying one's stomach, which would result in a energetic loss. It is reasonable as a mean of "better hungry and alive than full and dead" for a lesser animal, but for a might dragon might be a bit against the rule of cool.
Better would be to have your dragon develop some pockets where acid can be stored and used at necessity, without the need to throw away a well deserved meal.
answered 2 days ago
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
92.1k29213442
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Presumably, this attack would be used as a means of acquiring lunch, so that would not be a problem. (It would even pre-digest your food a bit before swallowing it...)
$endgroup$
– Darrel Hoffman
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
Also, the acid could be produced/stored in glands or bladders located just above the stomach along the esophagus; they could have an extra sphincter in their esophagus -- one above the acid bladders in addition to the one below. Normally, when digesting, the upper one closes and the lower one opens, and the bladders secrete a small portion of their contents to help digest food. When the dragon needs to spit though, the lower sphincter closes while the upper one opens, and the bladders disgorge a much greater volume of acid, creating a nasty acid spray.
$endgroup$
– Doktor J
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
@DoktorJ at which point you're basically replicating the spitting cobra except spitting acid instead of neurotoxins. And the cobra has a better mechanism as it doesn't have the stuff flowing through his body in places that could be damaged by it.
$endgroup$
– jwenting
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
Lots of creatures have more than one stomach. Top stomach empties quickly after a meal. (An acid bladder similar to the mammal gall bladder is a more elegant solution though.)
$endgroup$
– arp
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Stomach Acid
As others have stated, yes you could use stomach acid as a weapon. I would agree with L.Dutch though that they would likely have dedicated acid stacks rather than using the acid in their stomach for practical reasons. (Perhaps acid is produced and stored in these sacks, one tube leads to the stomach to fill the stomach with acid, another tube leads up towards the dragon’s head). You would need some kind of protection against the acid in the mouth, acid sacks and the tubes leading to the stomach and mouth.
If you wanted to get a bit fancier, rather than just having a tube in the dragon’s mouth that ejects the acid, you could have the tube run up to some fangs. This way you could have your dragon either spray out the acid or inject it into their prey.
Super Acids
Rather than just using plain old stomach acid, we might be able to do one better. By combining various acids, we can create one which has a negative PH level. You may be able to have two different acids produced and stored in separate sacks. When the dragon wants to use it as a weapon, some acid from each sack is ejected, causing them to mix. Now, i don’t know of this would be biologically possible as i’m not certain of the manufacturing process of super acids, however if it is you may want to consider this.
Digestive Enzymes
Instead of using acids, you may want to use enzymes. Whilst acids will burn someone they might not break down fats, which makes up a large portion of an animal’s body. However, if you instead fire out enzymes that break down a creatures body, it would likely cause the burning sensation you are after whilst also pre-digesting a dragon’s food to some degree.
answered yesterday
Liam MorrisLiam Morris
2,299431
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
YES
Gastric acid (HCl) can be used as a means of defense or attack. Acid weapons are known in nature. Ants spray formic acid, for example. Some birds, vutlures for example, vomit as means of defense. A number of creatures evert their stomachs in order to clear out yucky things they've eaten.
In the literature, we find this example of gastric acid magic.
Yum. So yes, your dragons could certainly do this as well. If they're large beasts, the effects will probably be quite astonishing.
answered 2 days ago
elemtilaselemtilas
15.2k23465
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Additionally, depending on the diet of the dragon, the acid may have to be more corrosive in order to digest exotic items. This makes sense in an evolutionary perspective.
$endgroup$
– Mathaddict
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
@Mathaddict Indeed! If you look into vultures as a real world exemplar upon which to model the dragon's behaviour, their gastric acid is terribly acidic compared with humans'.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
2 days ago
10
$begingroup$
Love those "Would this crazy outlandish thing be possible somehow?" "Yes, it already exists in nature."
$endgroup$
– Eth
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Also bear in mind that evolutionary pressures could mean it's developed additional acid producing glands to generate extra acid for spitting (i.e. they may not need to vomit to achieve the same effect). And a creature that's evolved to do this will likely have also evolved a way to protect its esophagus from the acid (excess salivation, mitigating compound secretion, etc.).
$endgroup$
– KenLFG
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
YES
Gastric acid (HCl) can be used as a means of defense or attack. Acid weapons are known in nature. Ants spray formic acid, for example. Some birds, vutlures for example, vomit as means of defense. A number of creatures evert their stomachs in order to clear out yucky things they've eaten.
In the literature, we find this example of gastric acid magic.
Yum. So yes, your dragons could certainly do this as well. If they're large beasts, the effects will probably be quite astonishing.
answered 2 days ago
elemtilaselemtilas
15.2k23465
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Additionally, depending on the diet of the dragon, the acid may have to be more corrosive in order to digest exotic items. This makes sense in an evolutionary perspective.
$endgroup$
– Mathaddict
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
@Mathaddict Indeed! If you look into vultures as a real world exemplar upon which to model the dragon's behaviour, their gastric acid is terribly acidic compared with humans'.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
2 days ago
10
$begingroup$
Love those "Would this crazy outlandish thing be possible somehow?" "Yes, it already exists in nature."
$endgroup$
– Eth
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Also bear in mind that evolutionary pressures could mean it's developed additional acid producing glands to generate extra acid for spitting (i.e. they may not need to vomit to achieve the same effect). And a creature that's evolved to do this will likely have also evolved a way to protect its esophagus from the acid (excess salivation, mitigating compound secretion, etc.).
$endgroup$
– KenLFG
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
YES
Gastric acid (HCl) can be used as a means of defense or attack. Acid weapons are known in nature. Ants spray formic acid, for example. Some birds, vutlures for example, vomit as means of defense. A number of creatures evert their stomachs in order to clear out yucky things they've eaten.
In the literature, we find this example of gastric acid magic.
Yum. So yes, your dragons could certainly do this as well. If they're large beasts, the effects will probably be quite astonishing.
answered 2 days ago
elemtilaselemtilas
15.2k23465
$endgroup$
YES
Gastric acid (HCl) can be used as a means of defense or attack. Acid weapons are known in nature. Ants spray formic acid, for example. Some birds, vutlures for example, vomit as means of defense. A number of creatures evert their stomachs in order to clear out yucky things they've eaten.
In the literature, we find this example of gastric acid magic.
Yum. So yes, your dragons could certainly do this as well. If they're large beasts, the effects will probably be quite astonishing.
answered 2 days ago
elemtilaselemtilas
15.2k23465
answered 2 days ago
elemtilaselemtilas
15.2k23465
answered 2 days ago
elemtilaselemtilas
15.2k23465
answered 2 days ago
elemtilaselemtilas
15.2k23465
15.2k23465
2
$begingroup$
Additionally, depending on the diet of the dragon, the acid may have to be more corrosive in order to digest exotic items. This makes sense in an evolutionary perspective.
$endgroup$
– Mathaddict
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
@Mathaddict Indeed! If you look into vultures as a real world exemplar upon which to model the dragon's behaviour, their gastric acid is terribly acidic compared with humans'.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
2 days ago
10
$begingroup$
Love those "Would this crazy outlandish thing be possible somehow?" "Yes, it already exists in nature."
$endgroup$
– Eth
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Also bear in mind that evolutionary pressures could mean it's developed additional acid producing glands to generate extra acid for spitting (i.e. they may not need to vomit to achieve the same effect). And a creature that's evolved to do this will likely have also evolved a way to protect its esophagus from the acid (excess salivation, mitigating compound secretion, etc.).
$endgroup$
– KenLFG
7 hours ago
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
Additionally, depending on the diet of the dragon, the acid may have to be more corrosive in order to digest exotic items. This makes sense in an evolutionary perspective.
$endgroup$
– Mathaddict
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
@Mathaddict Indeed! If you look into vultures as a real world exemplar upon which to model the dragon's behaviour, their gastric acid is terribly acidic compared with humans'.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
2 days ago
10
$begingroup$
Love those "Would this crazy outlandish thing be possible somehow?" "Yes, it already exists in nature."
$endgroup$
– Eth
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Also bear in mind that evolutionary pressures could mean it's developed additional acid producing glands to generate extra acid for spitting (i.e. they may not need to vomit to achieve the same effect). And a creature that's evolved to do this will likely have also evolved a way to protect its esophagus from the acid (excess salivation, mitigating compound secretion, etc.).
$endgroup$
– KenLFG
7 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Additionally, depending on the diet of the dragon, the acid may have to be more corrosive in order to digest exotic items. This makes sense in an evolutionary perspective.
$endgroup$
– Mathaddict
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Additionally, depending on the diet of the dragon, the acid may have to be more corrosive in order to digest exotic items. This makes sense in an evolutionary perspective.
$endgroup$
– Mathaddict
2 days ago
2
2
$begingroup$
@Mathaddict Indeed! If you look into vultures as a real world exemplar upon which to model the dragon's behaviour, their gastric acid is terribly acidic compared with humans'.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@Mathaddict Indeed! If you look into vultures as a real world exemplar upon which to model the dragon's behaviour, their gastric acid is terribly acidic compared with humans'.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
2 days ago
10
10
$begingroup$
Love those "Would this crazy outlandish thing be possible somehow?" "Yes, it already exists in nature."
$endgroup$
– Eth
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Love those "Would this crazy outlandish thing be possible somehow?" "Yes, it already exists in nature."
$endgroup$
– Eth
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Also bear in mind that evolutionary pressures could mean it's developed additional acid producing glands to generate extra acid for spitting (i.e. they may not need to vomit to achieve the same effect). And a creature that's evolved to do this will likely have also evolved a way to protect its esophagus from the acid (excess salivation, mitigating compound secretion, etc.).
$endgroup$
– KenLFG
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Also bear in mind that evolutionary pressures could mean it's developed additional acid producing glands to generate extra acid for spitting (i.e. they may not need to vomit to achieve the same effect). And a creature that's evolved to do this will likely have also evolved a way to protect its esophagus from the acid (excess salivation, mitigating compound secretion, etc.).
$endgroup$
– KenLFG
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Could powerful stomach acid be spat as a means of defense and/or attack?
YES but...
The stomach of any organism using acid as digestive liquid is protected against the action of said acid by a thick layer of mucus. The esophagus doesn't have the luxury of this layer, and is thus much more vulnerable to the action of the acid. In fact humans can get esophagus perforation in such cases.
So, if you want your dragon to throw up acid, you need to coat its esophagus with a thick layer of mucus.
However... attacking after lunch would mean emptying one's stomach, which would result in a energetic loss. It is reasonable as a mean of "better hungry and alive than full and dead" for a lesser animal, but for a might dragon might be a bit against the rule of cool.
Better would be to have your dragon develop some pockets where acid can be stored and used at necessity, without the need to throw away a well deserved meal.
answered 2 days ago
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
92.1k29213442
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Presumably, this attack would be used as a means of acquiring lunch, so that would not be a problem. (It would even pre-digest your food a bit before swallowing it...)
$endgroup$
– Darrel Hoffman
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
Also, the acid could be produced/stored in glands or bladders located just above the stomach along the esophagus; they could have an extra sphincter in their esophagus -- one above the acid bladders in addition to the one below. Normally, when digesting, the upper one closes and the lower one opens, and the bladders secrete a small portion of their contents to help digest food. When the dragon needs to spit though, the lower sphincter closes while the upper one opens, and the bladders disgorge a much greater volume of acid, creating a nasty acid spray.
$endgroup$
– Doktor J
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
@DoktorJ at which point you're basically replicating the spitting cobra except spitting acid instead of neurotoxins. And the cobra has a better mechanism as it doesn't have the stuff flowing through his body in places that could be damaged by it.
$endgroup$
– jwenting
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
Lots of creatures have more than one stomach. Top stomach empties quickly after a meal. (An acid bladder similar to the mammal gall bladder is a more elegant solution though.)
$endgroup$
– arp
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Could powerful stomach acid be spat as a means of defense and/or attack?
YES but...
The stomach of any organism using acid as digestive liquid is protected against the action of said acid by a thick layer of mucus. The esophagus doesn't have the luxury of this layer, and is thus much more vulnerable to the action of the acid. In fact humans can get esophagus perforation in such cases.
So, if you want your dragon to throw up acid, you need to coat its esophagus with a thick layer of mucus.
However... attacking after lunch would mean emptying one's stomach, which would result in a energetic loss. It is reasonable as a mean of "better hungry and alive than full and dead" for a lesser animal, but for a might dragon might be a bit against the rule of cool.
Better would be to have your dragon develop some pockets where acid can be stored and used at necessity, without the need to throw away a well deserved meal.
answered 2 days ago
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
92.1k29213442
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Presumably, this attack would be used as a means of acquiring lunch, so that would not be a problem. (It would even pre-digest your food a bit before swallowing it...)
$endgroup$
– Darrel Hoffman
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
Also, the acid could be produced/stored in glands or bladders located just above the stomach along the esophagus; they could have an extra sphincter in their esophagus -- one above the acid bladders in addition to the one below. Normally, when digesting, the upper one closes and the lower one opens, and the bladders secrete a small portion of their contents to help digest food. When the dragon needs to spit though, the lower sphincter closes while the upper one opens, and the bladders disgorge a much greater volume of acid, creating a nasty acid spray.
$endgroup$
– Doktor J
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
@DoktorJ at which point you're basically replicating the spitting cobra except spitting acid instead of neurotoxins. And the cobra has a better mechanism as it doesn't have the stuff flowing through his body in places that could be damaged by it.
$endgroup$
– jwenting
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
Lots of creatures have more than one stomach. Top stomach empties quickly after a meal. (An acid bladder similar to the mammal gall bladder is a more elegant solution though.)
$endgroup$
– arp
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Could powerful stomach acid be spat as a means of defense and/or attack?
YES but...
The stomach of any organism using acid as digestive liquid is protected against the action of said acid by a thick layer of mucus. The esophagus doesn't have the luxury of this layer, and is thus much more vulnerable to the action of the acid. In fact humans can get esophagus perforation in such cases.
So, if you want your dragon to throw up acid, you need to coat its esophagus with a thick layer of mucus.
However... attacking after lunch would mean emptying one's stomach, which would result in a energetic loss. It is reasonable as a mean of "better hungry and alive than full and dead" for a lesser animal, but for a might dragon might be a bit against the rule of cool.
Better would be to have your dragon develop some pockets where acid can be stored and used at necessity, without the need to throw away a well deserved meal.
answered 2 days ago
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
92.1k29213442
$endgroup$
Could powerful stomach acid be spat as a means of defense and/or attack?
YES but...
The stomach of any organism using acid as digestive liquid is protected against the action of said acid by a thick layer of mucus. The esophagus doesn't have the luxury of this layer, and is thus much more vulnerable to the action of the acid. In fact humans can get esophagus perforation in such cases.
So, if you want your dragon to throw up acid, you need to coat its esophagus with a thick layer of mucus.
However... attacking after lunch would mean emptying one's stomach, which would result in a energetic loss. It is reasonable as a mean of "better hungry and alive than full and dead" for a lesser animal, but for a might dragon might be a bit against the rule of cool.
Better would be to have your dragon develop some pockets where acid can be stored and used at necessity, without the need to throw away a well deserved meal.
answered 2 days ago
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
92.1k29213442
answered 2 days ago
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
92.1k29213442
answered 2 days ago
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
92.1k29213442
answered 2 days ago
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
92.1k29213442
92.1k29213442
2
$begingroup$
Presumably, this attack would be used as a means of acquiring lunch, so that would not be a problem. (It would even pre-digest your food a bit before swallowing it...)
$endgroup$
– Darrel Hoffman
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
Also, the acid could be produced/stored in glands or bladders located just above the stomach along the esophagus; they could have an extra sphincter in their esophagus -- one above the acid bladders in addition to the one below. Normally, when digesting, the upper one closes and the lower one opens, and the bladders secrete a small portion of their contents to help digest food. When the dragon needs to spit though, the lower sphincter closes while the upper one opens, and the bladders disgorge a much greater volume of acid, creating a nasty acid spray.
$endgroup$
– Doktor J
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
@DoktorJ at which point you're basically replicating the spitting cobra except spitting acid instead of neurotoxins. And the cobra has a better mechanism as it doesn't have the stuff flowing through his body in places that could be damaged by it.
$endgroup$
– jwenting
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
Lots of creatures have more than one stomach. Top stomach empties quickly after a meal. (An acid bladder similar to the mammal gall bladder is a more elegant solution though.)
$endgroup$
– arp
yesterday
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
Presumably, this attack would be used as a means of acquiring lunch, so that would not be a problem. (It would even pre-digest your food a bit before swallowing it...)
$endgroup$
– Darrel Hoffman
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
Also, the acid could be produced/stored in glands or bladders located just above the stomach along the esophagus; they could have an extra sphincter in their esophagus -- one above the acid bladders in addition to the one below. Normally, when digesting, the upper one closes and the lower one opens, and the bladders secrete a small portion of their contents to help digest food. When the dragon needs to spit though, the lower sphincter closes while the upper one opens, and the bladders disgorge a much greater volume of acid, creating a nasty acid spray.
$endgroup$
– Doktor J
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
@DoktorJ at which point you're basically replicating the spitting cobra except spitting acid instead of neurotoxins. And the cobra has a better mechanism as it doesn't have the stuff flowing through his body in places that could be damaged by it.
$endgroup$
– jwenting
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
Lots of creatures have more than one stomach. Top stomach empties quickly after a meal. (An acid bladder similar to the mammal gall bladder is a more elegant solution though.)
$endgroup$
– arp
yesterday
2
2
$begingroup$
Presumably, this attack would be used as a means of acquiring lunch, so that would not be a problem. (It would even pre-digest your food a bit before swallowing it...)
$endgroup$
– Darrel Hoffman
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Presumably, this attack would be used as a means of acquiring lunch, so that would not be a problem. (It would even pre-digest your food a bit before swallowing it...)
$endgroup$
– Darrel Hoffman
2 days ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Also, the acid could be produced/stored in glands or bladders located just above the stomach along the esophagus; they could have an extra sphincter in their esophagus -- one above the acid bladders in addition to the one below. Normally, when digesting, the upper one closes and the lower one opens, and the bladders secrete a small portion of their contents to help digest food. When the dragon needs to spit though, the lower sphincter closes while the upper one opens, and the bladders disgorge a much greater volume of acid, creating a nasty acid spray.
$endgroup$
– Doktor J
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Also, the acid could be produced/stored in glands or bladders located just above the stomach along the esophagus; they could have an extra sphincter in their esophagus -- one above the acid bladders in addition to the one below. Normally, when digesting, the upper one closes and the lower one opens, and the bladders secrete a small portion of their contents to help digest food. When the dragon needs to spit though, the lower sphincter closes while the upper one opens, and the bladders disgorge a much greater volume of acid, creating a nasty acid spray.
$endgroup$
– Doktor J
2 days ago
2
2
$begingroup$
@DoktorJ at which point you're basically replicating the spitting cobra except spitting acid instead of neurotoxins. And the cobra has a better mechanism as it doesn't have the stuff flowing through his body in places that could be damaged by it.
$endgroup$
– jwenting
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@DoktorJ at which point you're basically replicating the spitting cobra except spitting acid instead of neurotoxins. And the cobra has a better mechanism as it doesn't have the stuff flowing through his body in places that could be damaged by it.
$endgroup$
– jwenting
2 days ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Lots of creatures have more than one stomach. Top stomach empties quickly after a meal. (An acid bladder similar to the mammal gall bladder is a more elegant solution though.)
$endgroup$
– arp
yesterday
$begingroup$
Lots of creatures have more than one stomach. Top stomach empties quickly after a meal. (An acid bladder similar to the mammal gall bladder is a more elegant solution though.)
$endgroup$
– arp
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Stomach Acid
As others have stated, yes you could use stomach acid as a weapon. I would agree with L.Dutch though that they would likely have dedicated acid stacks rather than using the acid in their stomach for practical reasons. (Perhaps acid is produced and stored in these sacks, one tube leads to the stomach to fill the stomach with acid, another tube leads up towards the dragon’s head). You would need some kind of protection against the acid in the mouth, acid sacks and the tubes leading to the stomach and mouth.
If you wanted to get a bit fancier, rather than just having a tube in the dragon’s mouth that ejects the acid, you could have the tube run up to some fangs. This way you could have your dragon either spray out the acid or inject it into their prey.
Super Acids
Rather than just using plain old stomach acid, we might be able to do one better. By combining various acids, we can create one which has a negative PH level. You may be able to have two different acids produced and stored in separate sacks. When the dragon wants to use it as a weapon, some acid from each sack is ejected, causing them to mix. Now, i don’t know of this would be biologically possible as i’m not certain of the manufacturing process of super acids, however if it is you may want to consider this.
Digestive Enzymes
Instead of using acids, you may want to use enzymes. Whilst acids will burn someone they might not break down fats, which makes up a large portion of an animal’s body. However, if you instead fire out enzymes that break down a creatures body, it would likely cause the burning sensation you are after whilst also pre-digesting a dragon’s food to some degree.
answered yesterday
Liam MorrisLiam Morris
2,299431
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Stomach Acid
As others have stated, yes you could use stomach acid as a weapon. I would agree with L.Dutch though that they would likely have dedicated acid stacks rather than using the acid in their stomach for practical reasons. (Perhaps acid is produced and stored in these sacks, one tube leads to the stomach to fill the stomach with acid, another tube leads up towards the dragon’s head). You would need some kind of protection against the acid in the mouth, acid sacks and the tubes leading to the stomach and mouth.
If you wanted to get a bit fancier, rather than just having a tube in the dragon’s mouth that ejects the acid, you could have the tube run up to some fangs. This way you could have your dragon either spray out the acid or inject it into their prey.
Super Acids
Rather than just using plain old stomach acid, we might be able to do one better. By combining various acids, we can create one which has a negative PH level. You may be able to have two different acids produced and stored in separate sacks. When the dragon wants to use it as a weapon, some acid from each sack is ejected, causing them to mix. Now, i don’t know of this would be biologically possible as i’m not certain of the manufacturing process of super acids, however if it is you may want to consider this.
Digestive Enzymes
Instead of using acids, you may want to use enzymes. Whilst acids will burn someone they might not break down fats, which makes up a large portion of an animal’s body. However, if you instead fire out enzymes that break down a creatures body, it would likely cause the burning sensation you are after whilst also pre-digesting a dragon’s food to some degree.
answered yesterday
Liam MorrisLiam Morris
2,299431
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Stomach Acid
As others have stated, yes you could use stomach acid as a weapon. I would agree with L.Dutch though that they would likely have dedicated acid stacks rather than using the acid in their stomach for practical reasons. (Perhaps acid is produced and stored in these sacks, one tube leads to the stomach to fill the stomach with acid, another tube leads up towards the dragon’s head). You would need some kind of protection against the acid in the mouth, acid sacks and the tubes leading to the stomach and mouth.
If you wanted to get a bit fancier, rather than just having a tube in the dragon’s mouth that ejects the acid, you could have the tube run up to some fangs. This way you could have your dragon either spray out the acid or inject it into their prey.
Super Acids
Rather than just using plain old stomach acid, we might be able to do one better. By combining various acids, we can create one which has a negative PH level. You may be able to have two different acids produced and stored in separate sacks. When the dragon wants to use it as a weapon, some acid from each sack is ejected, causing them to mix. Now, i don’t know of this would be biologically possible as i’m not certain of the manufacturing process of super acids, however if it is you may want to consider this.
Digestive Enzymes
Instead of using acids, you may want to use enzymes. Whilst acids will burn someone they might not break down fats, which makes up a large portion of an animal’s body. However, if you instead fire out enzymes that break down a creatures body, it would likely cause the burning sensation you are after whilst also pre-digesting a dragon’s food to some degree.
answered yesterday
Liam MorrisLiam Morris
2,299431
$endgroup$
Stomach Acid
As others have stated, yes you could use stomach acid as a weapon. I would agree with L.Dutch though that they would likely have dedicated acid stacks rather than using the acid in their stomach for practical reasons. (Perhaps acid is produced and stored in these sacks, one tube leads to the stomach to fill the stomach with acid, another tube leads up towards the dragon’s head). You would need some kind of protection against the acid in the mouth, acid sacks and the tubes leading to the stomach and mouth.
If you wanted to get a bit fancier, rather than just having a tube in the dragon’s mouth that ejects the acid, you could have the tube run up to some fangs. This way you could have your dragon either spray out the acid or inject it into their prey.
Super Acids
Rather than just using plain old stomach acid, we might be able to do one better. By combining various acids, we can create one which has a negative PH level. You may be able to have two different acids produced and stored in separate sacks. When the dragon wants to use it as a weapon, some acid from each sack is ejected, causing them to mix. Now, i don’t know of this would be biologically possible as i’m not certain of the manufacturing process of super acids, however if it is you may want to consider this.
Digestive Enzymes
Instead of using acids, you may want to use enzymes. Whilst acids will burn someone they might not break down fats, which makes up a large portion of an animal’s body. However, if you instead fire out enzymes that break down a creatures body, it would likely cause the burning sensation you are after whilst also pre-digesting a dragon’s food to some degree.
answered yesterday
Liam MorrisLiam Morris
2,299431
answered yesterday
Liam MorrisLiam Morris
2,299431
answered yesterday
Liam MorrisLiam Morris
2,299431
answered yesterday
Liam MorrisLiam Morris
2,299431
2,299431
add a comment |
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
I see you're sneaking in three extra questions there ... best practice is to ask one focused question in order to get one good answer. You can always ask follow up questions. But you knew that already! Please edit accordingly.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@elemtilas Fair enough. Question edited.
$endgroup$
– SealBoi
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
Great! Question answered!
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
Related (but not a dupe): worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/q/115804/21222
$endgroup$
– Renan
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
As another alternative, consider the Bombardier Beetle: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_beetle
$endgroup$
– Arkenstein XII
2 days ago