Why are time dilation and length contraction needed to fix time? The Next CEO of Stack OverflowWhat is time dilation really?Special Relativity: Length Contraction ConfusionLength contraction and simultaneous length measurementsTime dilation: faster or slower?“Reality” of length contraction in SRTime dilation and relativity paradox?Does Inertial time dilation demonstrate that Time is not a dimension?Space-Time Geometry that shortens time intervals?What would happen if something *rotated* with a tangential velocity near speed of light?The flow of time and the Light Clock / fundamental phenomena wrt time?In relativity, when can time dilation be used in opposed to length contraction?Measuring time dilation of SR by a mechanical clock

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Why are time dilation and length contraction needed to fix time?



The Next CEO of Stack OverflowWhat is time dilation really?Special Relativity: Length Contraction ConfusionLength contraction and simultaneous length measurementsTime dilation: faster or slower?“Reality” of length contraction in SRTime dilation and relativity paradox?Does Inertial time dilation demonstrate that Time is not a dimension?Space-Time Geometry that shortens time intervals?What would happen if something *rotated* with a tangential velocity near speed of light?The flow of time and the Light Clock / fundamental phenomena wrt time?In relativity, when can time dilation be used in opposed to length contraction?Measuring time dilation of SR by a mechanical clock










6












$begingroup$


In many textbooks and online answers I have heard people go on about how time dilation accounts for the gap of time experienced between two observers. However, they continue that in reality this is not enough and we must have length contraction as well to truly close the gap.



From an intuitive perspective, can't time just slow down a lot and then this can cover the gap in time all by itself? Why must there also be length contraction to help cover the gap? Can't time just slow down more? I would really like to understand this on both the intuitive and mathematical level.










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Possible duplicate of What is time dilation really?
    $endgroup$
    – John Rennie
    19 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I'm not quite clear on what you're getting at, but if you have time dilation you also must have length contraction if you want the 2 frames to agree on the relative velocity between them.
    $endgroup$
    – PM 2Ring
    19 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Possible duplicate of What is time dilation really?
    $endgroup$
    – JMac
    13 hours ago















6












$begingroup$


In many textbooks and online answers I have heard people go on about how time dilation accounts for the gap of time experienced between two observers. However, they continue that in reality this is not enough and we must have length contraction as well to truly close the gap.



From an intuitive perspective, can't time just slow down a lot and then this can cover the gap in time all by itself? Why must there also be length contraction to help cover the gap? Can't time just slow down more? I would really like to understand this on both the intuitive and mathematical level.










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Possible duplicate of What is time dilation really?
    $endgroup$
    – John Rennie
    19 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I'm not quite clear on what you're getting at, but if you have time dilation you also must have length contraction if you want the 2 frames to agree on the relative velocity between them.
    $endgroup$
    – PM 2Ring
    19 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Possible duplicate of What is time dilation really?
    $endgroup$
    – JMac
    13 hours ago













6












6








6





$begingroup$


In many textbooks and online answers I have heard people go on about how time dilation accounts for the gap of time experienced between two observers. However, they continue that in reality this is not enough and we must have length contraction as well to truly close the gap.



From an intuitive perspective, can't time just slow down a lot and then this can cover the gap in time all by itself? Why must there also be length contraction to help cover the gap? Can't time just slow down more? I would really like to understand this on both the intuitive and mathematical level.










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$




In many textbooks and online answers I have heard people go on about how time dilation accounts for the gap of time experienced between two observers. However, they continue that in reality this is not enough and we must have length contraction as well to truly close the gap.



From an intuitive perspective, can't time just slow down a lot and then this can cover the gap in time all by itself? Why must there also be length contraction to help cover the gap? Can't time just slow down more? I would really like to understand this on both the intuitive and mathematical level.







special-relativity time






share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question











share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question










asked 20 hours ago









John HonJohn Hon

447412




447412







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Possible duplicate of What is time dilation really?
    $endgroup$
    – John Rennie
    19 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I'm not quite clear on what you're getting at, but if you have time dilation you also must have length contraction if you want the 2 frames to agree on the relative velocity between them.
    $endgroup$
    – PM 2Ring
    19 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Possible duplicate of What is time dilation really?
    $endgroup$
    – JMac
    13 hours ago












  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Possible duplicate of What is time dilation really?
    $endgroup$
    – John Rennie
    19 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I'm not quite clear on what you're getting at, but if you have time dilation you also must have length contraction if you want the 2 frames to agree on the relative velocity between them.
    $endgroup$
    – PM 2Ring
    19 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Possible duplicate of What is time dilation really?
    $endgroup$
    – JMac
    13 hours ago







2




2




$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of What is time dilation really?
$endgroup$
– John Rennie
19 hours ago




$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of What is time dilation really?
$endgroup$
– John Rennie
19 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
I'm not quite clear on what you're getting at, but if you have time dilation you also must have length contraction if you want the 2 frames to agree on the relative velocity between them.
$endgroup$
– PM 2Ring
19 hours ago




$begingroup$
I'm not quite clear on what you're getting at, but if you have time dilation you also must have length contraction if you want the 2 frames to agree on the relative velocity between them.
$endgroup$
– PM 2Ring
19 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of What is time dilation really?
$endgroup$
– JMac
13 hours ago




$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of What is time dilation really?
$endgroup$
– JMac
13 hours ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















6












$begingroup$


From an intuitive perspective, can't time just slow down a lot and then this can cover the gap in time all by itself? Why must there also be length contraction to help cover the gap?




Intuitively, the need for length contraction is because the gap you described above depends on the orientation.



For example, when deriving the expression for time dilation, one common approach is to consider what is known as a light clock. In particular, if the relative motion is in the x direction, then typically a light clock oriented along the y direction is analyzed.



What happens if you consider two identical light clocks and orient one in the y direction and the other in the x direction? It turns out that the first can be described by time dilation alone, but using the same approach for the x clock fails. To make both clocks work you need to include length contraction for the x clock.



A less intuitive but conceptually cleaner approach is to derive the Lorentz transform using your favorite approach, and then to view both time dilation and length contraction as features of the Lorentz transform.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$




















    2












    $begingroup$

    First of all, time dilation concerns an observer and an observed particle. If the observed particle has a velocity with respect to the observer, the observation of the aging process of the particle will be subject to time dilation, that means the proper time of the particle is the time before time dilation, and the coordinate time measured by the observer will be the time after time dilation.



    So the observer and the observed particle will not agree on the measured time, but in contrast, they will agree on their relative velocity. If A is receding from B, so B is receding with the same velocity from A. Velocity equals distance divided by time, and this is why the observed particle will measure not only a shorter time but also a contracted distance.



    That means that length contraction is a direct consequence of time dilation.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$




















      0












      $begingroup$

      I am not sure what you are asking, but my explanation on this site might answer your question Special Relativity: Length Contraction Confusion
      If there are more than one object, they will appear closer together as well as shortened. And if you were moving at relativistic speed, objects behind or beside you would appear shortened, while those in front would appear lengthened because the light from the near end has less distance to go, so the near end is seen moving first.






      share|cite









      $endgroup$




















        -5












        $begingroup$

        Time, is a term describing temporal motion. Motion through the temporal dimension. Time dilation is a change in the rate at which we time, relative to something or someone else.



        Because our experience of timing is subjective, the duration of a period varies, depending on our temporal velocity. A journey of ten light years might subjectively be experienced as a year, therefore the distance traveled feels subjectively shorter.



        Think of it as taking a nap on an 8 hour flight. If you sleep for 6 hours, subjectively, your flight is only 2 hour long. The trip feels shorter.



        Length contraction is a change in the observers subjective perception of reality. Time dilation is a result of a change in temporal velocity which is inversely proportional to our spatial velocity.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$








        • 1




          $begingroup$
          I think you mixes physics and psychology at your choice.
          $endgroup$
          – Alchimista
          17 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          Yes, you're correct. Is that a problem to you?
          $endgroup$
          – zane scheepers
          17 hours ago






        • 3




          $begingroup$
          Not a problem at all. But it is not a physics answer. I am not used to downvote so I choose to comment.
          $endgroup$
          – Alchimista
          17 hours ago











        • $begingroup$
          @Alchimista Downvoting isn't bad; it's important for the quality of the site.
          $endgroup$
          – wizzwizz4
          11 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          You mean, to keep the sheep in check¿
          $endgroup$
          – zane scheepers
          10 hours ago











        Your Answer





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        4 Answers
        4






        active

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        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        6












        $begingroup$


        From an intuitive perspective, can't time just slow down a lot and then this can cover the gap in time all by itself? Why must there also be length contraction to help cover the gap?




        Intuitively, the need for length contraction is because the gap you described above depends on the orientation.



        For example, when deriving the expression for time dilation, one common approach is to consider what is known as a light clock. In particular, if the relative motion is in the x direction, then typically a light clock oriented along the y direction is analyzed.



        What happens if you consider two identical light clocks and orient one in the y direction and the other in the x direction? It turns out that the first can be described by time dilation alone, but using the same approach for the x clock fails. To make both clocks work you need to include length contraction for the x clock.



        A less intuitive but conceptually cleaner approach is to derive the Lorentz transform using your favorite approach, and then to view both time dilation and length contraction as features of the Lorentz transform.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$

















          6












          $begingroup$


          From an intuitive perspective, can't time just slow down a lot and then this can cover the gap in time all by itself? Why must there also be length contraction to help cover the gap?




          Intuitively, the need for length contraction is because the gap you described above depends on the orientation.



          For example, when deriving the expression for time dilation, one common approach is to consider what is known as a light clock. In particular, if the relative motion is in the x direction, then typically a light clock oriented along the y direction is analyzed.



          What happens if you consider two identical light clocks and orient one in the y direction and the other in the x direction? It turns out that the first can be described by time dilation alone, but using the same approach for the x clock fails. To make both clocks work you need to include length contraction for the x clock.



          A less intuitive but conceptually cleaner approach is to derive the Lorentz transform using your favorite approach, and then to view both time dilation and length contraction as features of the Lorentz transform.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$















            6












            6








            6





            $begingroup$


            From an intuitive perspective, can't time just slow down a lot and then this can cover the gap in time all by itself? Why must there also be length contraction to help cover the gap?




            Intuitively, the need for length contraction is because the gap you described above depends on the orientation.



            For example, when deriving the expression for time dilation, one common approach is to consider what is known as a light clock. In particular, if the relative motion is in the x direction, then typically a light clock oriented along the y direction is analyzed.



            What happens if you consider two identical light clocks and orient one in the y direction and the other in the x direction? It turns out that the first can be described by time dilation alone, but using the same approach for the x clock fails. To make both clocks work you need to include length contraction for the x clock.



            A less intuitive but conceptually cleaner approach is to derive the Lorentz transform using your favorite approach, and then to view both time dilation and length contraction as features of the Lorentz transform.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$




            From an intuitive perspective, can't time just slow down a lot and then this can cover the gap in time all by itself? Why must there also be length contraction to help cover the gap?




            Intuitively, the need for length contraction is because the gap you described above depends on the orientation.



            For example, when deriving the expression for time dilation, one common approach is to consider what is known as a light clock. In particular, if the relative motion is in the x direction, then typically a light clock oriented along the y direction is analyzed.



            What happens if you consider two identical light clocks and orient one in the y direction and the other in the x direction? It turns out that the first can be described by time dilation alone, but using the same approach for the x clock fails. To make both clocks work you need to include length contraction for the x clock.



            A less intuitive but conceptually cleaner approach is to derive the Lorentz transform using your favorite approach, and then to view both time dilation and length contraction as features of the Lorentz transform.







            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered 18 hours ago









            DaleDale

            6,5671829




            6,5671829





















                2












                $begingroup$

                First of all, time dilation concerns an observer and an observed particle. If the observed particle has a velocity with respect to the observer, the observation of the aging process of the particle will be subject to time dilation, that means the proper time of the particle is the time before time dilation, and the coordinate time measured by the observer will be the time after time dilation.



                So the observer and the observed particle will not agree on the measured time, but in contrast, they will agree on their relative velocity. If A is receding from B, so B is receding with the same velocity from A. Velocity equals distance divided by time, and this is why the observed particle will measure not only a shorter time but also a contracted distance.



                That means that length contraction is a direct consequence of time dilation.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$

















                  2












                  $begingroup$

                  First of all, time dilation concerns an observer and an observed particle. If the observed particle has a velocity with respect to the observer, the observation of the aging process of the particle will be subject to time dilation, that means the proper time of the particle is the time before time dilation, and the coordinate time measured by the observer will be the time after time dilation.



                  So the observer and the observed particle will not agree on the measured time, but in contrast, they will agree on their relative velocity. If A is receding from B, so B is receding with the same velocity from A. Velocity equals distance divided by time, and this is why the observed particle will measure not only a shorter time but also a contracted distance.



                  That means that length contraction is a direct consequence of time dilation.






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$















                    2












                    2








                    2





                    $begingroup$

                    First of all, time dilation concerns an observer and an observed particle. If the observed particle has a velocity with respect to the observer, the observation of the aging process of the particle will be subject to time dilation, that means the proper time of the particle is the time before time dilation, and the coordinate time measured by the observer will be the time after time dilation.



                    So the observer and the observed particle will not agree on the measured time, but in contrast, they will agree on their relative velocity. If A is receding from B, so B is receding with the same velocity from A. Velocity equals distance divided by time, and this is why the observed particle will measure not only a shorter time but also a contracted distance.



                    That means that length contraction is a direct consequence of time dilation.






                    share|cite|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$



                    First of all, time dilation concerns an observer and an observed particle. If the observed particle has a velocity with respect to the observer, the observation of the aging process of the particle will be subject to time dilation, that means the proper time of the particle is the time before time dilation, and the coordinate time measured by the observer will be the time after time dilation.



                    So the observer and the observed particle will not agree on the measured time, but in contrast, they will agree on their relative velocity. If A is receding from B, so B is receding with the same velocity from A. Velocity equals distance divided by time, and this is why the observed particle will measure not only a shorter time but also a contracted distance.



                    That means that length contraction is a direct consequence of time dilation.







                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer










                    answered 16 hours ago









                    MoonrakerMoonraker

                    1,93611022




                    1,93611022





















                        0












                        $begingroup$

                        I am not sure what you are asking, but my explanation on this site might answer your question Special Relativity: Length Contraction Confusion
                        If there are more than one object, they will appear closer together as well as shortened. And if you were moving at relativistic speed, objects behind or beside you would appear shortened, while those in front would appear lengthened because the light from the near end has less distance to go, so the near end is seen moving first.






                        share|cite









                        $endgroup$

















                          0












                          $begingroup$

                          I am not sure what you are asking, but my explanation on this site might answer your question Special Relativity: Length Contraction Confusion
                          If there are more than one object, they will appear closer together as well as shortened. And if you were moving at relativistic speed, objects behind or beside you would appear shortened, while those in front would appear lengthened because the light from the near end has less distance to go, so the near end is seen moving first.






                          share|cite









                          $endgroup$















                            0












                            0








                            0





                            $begingroup$

                            I am not sure what you are asking, but my explanation on this site might answer your question Special Relativity: Length Contraction Confusion
                            If there are more than one object, they will appear closer together as well as shortened. And if you were moving at relativistic speed, objects behind or beside you would appear shortened, while those in front would appear lengthened because the light from the near end has less distance to go, so the near end is seen moving first.






                            share|cite









                            $endgroup$



                            I am not sure what you are asking, but my explanation on this site might answer your question Special Relativity: Length Contraction Confusion
                            If there are more than one object, they will appear closer together as well as shortened. And if you were moving at relativistic speed, objects behind or beside you would appear shortened, while those in front would appear lengthened because the light from the near end has less distance to go, so the near end is seen moving first.







                            share|cite












                            share|cite



                            share|cite










                            answered 4 mins ago









                            Peter McMahonPeter McMahon

                            112




                            112





















                                -5












                                $begingroup$

                                Time, is a term describing temporal motion. Motion through the temporal dimension. Time dilation is a change in the rate at which we time, relative to something or someone else.



                                Because our experience of timing is subjective, the duration of a period varies, depending on our temporal velocity. A journey of ten light years might subjectively be experienced as a year, therefore the distance traveled feels subjectively shorter.



                                Think of it as taking a nap on an 8 hour flight. If you sleep for 6 hours, subjectively, your flight is only 2 hour long. The trip feels shorter.



                                Length contraction is a change in the observers subjective perception of reality. Time dilation is a result of a change in temporal velocity which is inversely proportional to our spatial velocity.






                                share|cite|improve this answer









                                $endgroup$








                                • 1




                                  $begingroup$
                                  I think you mixes physics and psychology at your choice.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – Alchimista
                                  17 hours ago










                                • $begingroup$
                                  Yes, you're correct. Is that a problem to you?
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – zane scheepers
                                  17 hours ago






                                • 3




                                  $begingroup$
                                  Not a problem at all. But it is not a physics answer. I am not used to downvote so I choose to comment.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – Alchimista
                                  17 hours ago











                                • $begingroup$
                                  @Alchimista Downvoting isn't bad; it's important for the quality of the site.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – wizzwizz4
                                  11 hours ago










                                • $begingroup$
                                  You mean, to keep the sheep in check¿
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – zane scheepers
                                  10 hours ago















                                -5












                                $begingroup$

                                Time, is a term describing temporal motion. Motion through the temporal dimension. Time dilation is a change in the rate at which we time, relative to something or someone else.



                                Because our experience of timing is subjective, the duration of a period varies, depending on our temporal velocity. A journey of ten light years might subjectively be experienced as a year, therefore the distance traveled feels subjectively shorter.



                                Think of it as taking a nap on an 8 hour flight. If you sleep for 6 hours, subjectively, your flight is only 2 hour long. The trip feels shorter.



                                Length contraction is a change in the observers subjective perception of reality. Time dilation is a result of a change in temporal velocity which is inversely proportional to our spatial velocity.






                                share|cite|improve this answer









                                $endgroup$








                                • 1




                                  $begingroup$
                                  I think you mixes physics and psychology at your choice.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – Alchimista
                                  17 hours ago










                                • $begingroup$
                                  Yes, you're correct. Is that a problem to you?
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – zane scheepers
                                  17 hours ago






                                • 3




                                  $begingroup$
                                  Not a problem at all. But it is not a physics answer. I am not used to downvote so I choose to comment.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – Alchimista
                                  17 hours ago











                                • $begingroup$
                                  @Alchimista Downvoting isn't bad; it's important for the quality of the site.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – wizzwizz4
                                  11 hours ago










                                • $begingroup$
                                  You mean, to keep the sheep in check¿
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – zane scheepers
                                  10 hours ago













                                -5












                                -5








                                -5





                                $begingroup$

                                Time, is a term describing temporal motion. Motion through the temporal dimension. Time dilation is a change in the rate at which we time, relative to something or someone else.



                                Because our experience of timing is subjective, the duration of a period varies, depending on our temporal velocity. A journey of ten light years might subjectively be experienced as a year, therefore the distance traveled feels subjectively shorter.



                                Think of it as taking a nap on an 8 hour flight. If you sleep for 6 hours, subjectively, your flight is only 2 hour long. The trip feels shorter.



                                Length contraction is a change in the observers subjective perception of reality. Time dilation is a result of a change in temporal velocity which is inversely proportional to our spatial velocity.






                                share|cite|improve this answer









                                $endgroup$



                                Time, is a term describing temporal motion. Motion through the temporal dimension. Time dilation is a change in the rate at which we time, relative to something or someone else.



                                Because our experience of timing is subjective, the duration of a period varies, depending on our temporal velocity. A journey of ten light years might subjectively be experienced as a year, therefore the distance traveled feels subjectively shorter.



                                Think of it as taking a nap on an 8 hour flight. If you sleep for 6 hours, subjectively, your flight is only 2 hour long. The trip feels shorter.



                                Length contraction is a change in the observers subjective perception of reality. Time dilation is a result of a change in temporal velocity which is inversely proportional to our spatial velocity.







                                share|cite|improve this answer












                                share|cite|improve this answer



                                share|cite|improve this answer










                                answered 19 hours ago









                                zane scheeperszane scheepers

                                12916




                                12916







                                • 1




                                  $begingroup$
                                  I think you mixes physics and psychology at your choice.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – Alchimista
                                  17 hours ago










                                • $begingroup$
                                  Yes, you're correct. Is that a problem to you?
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – zane scheepers
                                  17 hours ago






                                • 3




                                  $begingroup$
                                  Not a problem at all. But it is not a physics answer. I am not used to downvote so I choose to comment.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – Alchimista
                                  17 hours ago











                                • $begingroup$
                                  @Alchimista Downvoting isn't bad; it's important for the quality of the site.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – wizzwizz4
                                  11 hours ago










                                • $begingroup$
                                  You mean, to keep the sheep in check¿
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – zane scheepers
                                  10 hours ago












                                • 1




                                  $begingroup$
                                  I think you mixes physics and psychology at your choice.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – Alchimista
                                  17 hours ago










                                • $begingroup$
                                  Yes, you're correct. Is that a problem to you?
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – zane scheepers
                                  17 hours ago






                                • 3




                                  $begingroup$
                                  Not a problem at all. But it is not a physics answer. I am not used to downvote so I choose to comment.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – Alchimista
                                  17 hours ago











                                • $begingroup$
                                  @Alchimista Downvoting isn't bad; it's important for the quality of the site.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – wizzwizz4
                                  11 hours ago










                                • $begingroup$
                                  You mean, to keep the sheep in check¿
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – zane scheepers
                                  10 hours ago







                                1




                                1




                                $begingroup$
                                I think you mixes physics and psychology at your choice.
                                $endgroup$
                                – Alchimista
                                17 hours ago




                                $begingroup$
                                I think you mixes physics and psychology at your choice.
                                $endgroup$
                                – Alchimista
                                17 hours ago












                                $begingroup$
                                Yes, you're correct. Is that a problem to you?
                                $endgroup$
                                – zane scheepers
                                17 hours ago




                                $begingroup$
                                Yes, you're correct. Is that a problem to you?
                                $endgroup$
                                – zane scheepers
                                17 hours ago




                                3




                                3




                                $begingroup$
                                Not a problem at all. But it is not a physics answer. I am not used to downvote so I choose to comment.
                                $endgroup$
                                – Alchimista
                                17 hours ago





                                $begingroup$
                                Not a problem at all. But it is not a physics answer. I am not used to downvote so I choose to comment.
                                $endgroup$
                                – Alchimista
                                17 hours ago













                                $begingroup$
                                @Alchimista Downvoting isn't bad; it's important for the quality of the site.
                                $endgroup$
                                – wizzwizz4
                                11 hours ago




                                $begingroup$
                                @Alchimista Downvoting isn't bad; it's important for the quality of the site.
                                $endgroup$
                                – wizzwizz4
                                11 hours ago












                                $begingroup$
                                You mean, to keep the sheep in check¿
                                $endgroup$
                                – zane scheepers
                                10 hours ago




                                $begingroup$
                                You mean, to keep the sheep in check¿
                                $endgroup$
                                – zane scheepers
                                10 hours ago

















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