Oxford comma with nonessential phrasesShould I use the so-called Oxford comma, or not?proper way to use a comma separating 3 (or more) words in a sentenceOxford Comma Conventions“Oxford” comma with adjectivesComma ConfusionNonessential CommasIs there a comma *after* a list with an Oxford comma?The Oxford Comma and its relation to a list with only two entries.Is there an “Oxford semicolon”?Commas with dates
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Oxford comma with nonessential phrases
Should I use the so-called Oxford comma, or not?proper way to use a comma separating 3 (or more) words in a sentenceOxford Comma Conventions“Oxford” comma with adjectivesComma ConfusionNonessential CommasIs there a comma *after* a list with an Oxford comma?The Oxford Comma and its relation to a list with only two entries.Is there an “Oxford semicolon”?Commas with dates
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
So, I've got the following list containing a nonessential phrase ("ultimately"), non-Oxford comma:
stifling curiosity, creativity and, ultimately, progress.
Is it then correct, when converted to an Oxford comma, to end up with this monstrosity?
stifling curiosity, creativity, and, ultimately, progress.
phrases commas lists oxford-comma
edited Jun 11 at 13:26
Lambie
7,95311036
asked Jun 11 at 12:20
dwelledwelle
1214
New contributor
dwelle is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
|
show 5 more comments
So, I've got the following list containing a nonessential phrase ("ultimately"), non-Oxford comma:
stifling curiosity, creativity and, ultimately, progress.
Is it then correct, when converted to an Oxford comma, to end up with this monstrosity?
stifling curiosity, creativity, and, ultimately, progress.
phrases commas lists oxford-comma
edited Jun 11 at 13:26
Lambie
7,95311036
asked Jun 11 at 12:20
dwelledwelle
1214
New contributor
dwelle is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
4
It is at The New Yorker and other publications. This is a matter of style, and there is no "correct" style.
– Robusto
Jun 11 at 12:22
1
As usual, there exists in these areas a point beyond which trying to force a convention to hold (or to pursue an analysis using existing terminology) becomes nonsensical. '... stifling curiosity, creativity, and, ultimately, progress' doesn't conform to the minimalist (subject to reasonable clarity) trend in punctuation nowadays. '... stifling curiosity, creativity, and ultimately progress' looks far better. Even if it doesn't conform to the third law of wiggleuse.
– Edwin Ashworth
Jun 11 at 12:52
1
If you are uncomfortable with this clash of conventions, you could change something. "stifling curiosity, creativity, and (ultimately) progress."
– GEdgar
Jun 11 at 13:43
1
I don't know the names of the conventions, but using alternate delimiters is valid. One version I was taught would have you upgrade the Oxford commas to semi colons, there. "...curiosity; creativity; and, ultimately, progress." Another would have you leave the commas off that "ultimately". Yet another would use dashes for it. That is probably what I'd do. "...creativity, and--ultimately--progress."
– The Nate
Jun 11 at 14:59
1
@TheNate "creativity, and -- ultimately -- progress" looks like a winner.
– Nat
Jun 11 at 22:47
|
show 5 more comments
So, I've got the following list containing a nonessential phrase ("ultimately"), non-Oxford comma:
stifling curiosity, creativity and, ultimately, progress.
Is it then correct, when converted to an Oxford comma, to end up with this monstrosity?
stifling curiosity, creativity, and, ultimately, progress.
phrases commas lists oxford-comma
edited Jun 11 at 13:26
Lambie
7,95311036
asked Jun 11 at 12:20
dwelledwelle
1214
New contributor
dwelle is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
So, I've got the following list containing a nonessential phrase ("ultimately"), non-Oxford comma:
stifling curiosity, creativity and, ultimately, progress.
Is it then correct, when converted to an Oxford comma, to end up with this monstrosity?
stifling curiosity, creativity, and, ultimately, progress.
phrases commas lists oxford-comma
phrases commas lists oxford-comma
edited Jun 11 at 13:26
Lambie
7,95311036
asked Jun 11 at 12:20
dwelledwelle
1214
New contributor
dwelle is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited Jun 11 at 13:26
Lambie
7,95311036
asked Jun 11 at 12:20
dwelledwelle
1214
New contributor
dwelle is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited Jun 11 at 13:26
Lambie
7,95311036
edited Jun 11 at 13:26
Lambie
7,95311036
edited Jun 11 at 13:26
Lambie
7,95311036
7,95311036
asked Jun 11 at 12:20
dwelledwelle
1214
New contributor
dwelle is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked Jun 11 at 12:20
dwelledwelle
1214
asked Jun 11 at 12:20
dwelledwelle
1214
1214
New contributor
dwelle is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
dwelle is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
4
It is at The New Yorker and other publications. This is a matter of style, and there is no "correct" style.
– Robusto
Jun 11 at 12:22
1
As usual, there exists in these areas a point beyond which trying to force a convention to hold (or to pursue an analysis using existing terminology) becomes nonsensical. '... stifling curiosity, creativity, and, ultimately, progress' doesn't conform to the minimalist (subject to reasonable clarity) trend in punctuation nowadays. '... stifling curiosity, creativity, and ultimately progress' looks far better. Even if it doesn't conform to the third law of wiggleuse.
– Edwin Ashworth
Jun 11 at 12:52
1
If you are uncomfortable with this clash of conventions, you could change something. "stifling curiosity, creativity, and (ultimately) progress."
– GEdgar
Jun 11 at 13:43
1
I don't know the names of the conventions, but using alternate delimiters is valid. One version I was taught would have you upgrade the Oxford commas to semi colons, there. "...curiosity; creativity; and, ultimately, progress." Another would have you leave the commas off that "ultimately". Yet another would use dashes for it. That is probably what I'd do. "...creativity, and--ultimately--progress."
– The Nate
Jun 11 at 14:59
1
@TheNate "creativity, and -- ultimately -- progress" looks like a winner.
– Nat
Jun 11 at 22:47
|
show 5 more comments
4
It is at The New Yorker and other publications. This is a matter of style, and there is no "correct" style.
– Robusto
Jun 11 at 12:22
1
As usual, there exists in these areas a point beyond which trying to force a convention to hold (or to pursue an analysis using existing terminology) becomes nonsensical. '... stifling curiosity, creativity, and, ultimately, progress' doesn't conform to the minimalist (subject to reasonable clarity) trend in punctuation nowadays. '... stifling curiosity, creativity, and ultimately progress' looks far better. Even if it doesn't conform to the third law of wiggleuse.
– Edwin Ashworth
Jun 11 at 12:52
1
If you are uncomfortable with this clash of conventions, you could change something. "stifling curiosity, creativity, and (ultimately) progress."
– GEdgar
Jun 11 at 13:43
1
I don't know the names of the conventions, but using alternate delimiters is valid. One version I was taught would have you upgrade the Oxford commas to semi colons, there. "...curiosity; creativity; and, ultimately, progress." Another would have you leave the commas off that "ultimately". Yet another would use dashes for it. That is probably what I'd do. "...creativity, and--ultimately--progress."
– The Nate
Jun 11 at 14:59
1
@TheNate "creativity, and -- ultimately -- progress" looks like a winner.
– Nat
Jun 11 at 22:47
4
4
It is at The New Yorker and other publications. This is a matter of style, and there is no "correct" style.
– Robusto
Jun 11 at 12:22
It is at The New Yorker and other publications. This is a matter of style, and there is no "correct" style.
– Robusto
Jun 11 at 12:22
1
1
As usual, there exists in these areas a point beyond which trying to force a convention to hold (or to pursue an analysis using existing terminology) becomes nonsensical. '... stifling curiosity, creativity, and, ultimately, progress' doesn't conform to the minimalist (subject to reasonable clarity) trend in punctuation nowadays. '... stifling curiosity, creativity, and ultimately progress' looks far better. Even if it doesn't conform to the third law of wiggleuse.
– Edwin Ashworth
Jun 11 at 12:52
As usual, there exists in these areas a point beyond which trying to force a convention to hold (or to pursue an analysis using existing terminology) becomes nonsensical. '... stifling curiosity, creativity, and, ultimately, progress' doesn't conform to the minimalist (subject to reasonable clarity) trend in punctuation nowadays. '... stifling curiosity, creativity, and ultimately progress' looks far better. Even if it doesn't conform to the third law of wiggleuse.
– Edwin Ashworth
Jun 11 at 12:52
1
1
If you are uncomfortable with this clash of conventions, you could change something. "stifling curiosity, creativity, and (ultimately) progress."
– GEdgar
Jun 11 at 13:43
If you are uncomfortable with this clash of conventions, you could change something. "stifling curiosity, creativity, and (ultimately) progress."
– GEdgar
Jun 11 at 13:43
1
1
I don't know the names of the conventions, but using alternate delimiters is valid. One version I was taught would have you upgrade the Oxford commas to semi colons, there. "...curiosity; creativity; and, ultimately, progress." Another would have you leave the commas off that "ultimately". Yet another would use dashes for it. That is probably what I'd do. "...creativity, and--ultimately--progress."
– The Nate
Jun 11 at 14:59
I don't know the names of the conventions, but using alternate delimiters is valid. One version I was taught would have you upgrade the Oxford commas to semi colons, there. "...curiosity; creativity; and, ultimately, progress." Another would have you leave the commas off that "ultimately". Yet another would use dashes for it. That is probably what I'd do. "...creativity, and--ultimately--progress."
– The Nate
Jun 11 at 14:59
1
1
@TheNate "creativity, and -- ultimately -- progress" looks like a winner.
– Nat
Jun 11 at 22:47
@TheNate "creativity, and -- ultimately -- progress" looks like a winner.
– Nat
Jun 11 at 22:47
|
show 5 more comments
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
Yes. You are applying two distinct comma guidelines consistently:
The commas around a nonessential element. (Purdue OWL has some examples.)
Commas (including the serial comma) separating items in a list of three or more elements. (Number 5 in this list.)
There is no standard guideline for what to do if the application of multiple rules leads to a clusterfudge of commas. Whether you would rephrase or omit the serial comma in your example is an editorial decision. I'd suggest rephrasing if I have a stylistic concern. However, the New Yorker wouldn't; in an article entitled "In Defense of 'Nutty Commas,'" they justify both the use of the serial comma and a low hurdle for considering something a nonessential element. So they have:
“I invited my boss, her nephew, and my acupuncturist to the party.” (straightforward serial comma example)
“Before Atwater died, of brain cancer, in 1991, he expressed regret …” ("of brain cancer, in 1991" is treated as a pair of nonessential elements)
Whatever you choose, be consistent.
answered Jun 11 at 12:58
TaliesinMerlinTaliesinMerlin
11.4k12144
1
They disliked relevant examples, sample sentences and, mostly, disagreement of any kind. :)
– Lambie
Jun 11 at 13:24
add a comment |
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1 Answer
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Yes. You are applying two distinct comma guidelines consistently:
The commas around a nonessential element. (Purdue OWL has some examples.)
Commas (including the serial comma) separating items in a list of three or more elements. (Number 5 in this list.)
There is no standard guideline for what to do if the application of multiple rules leads to a clusterfudge of commas. Whether you would rephrase or omit the serial comma in your example is an editorial decision. I'd suggest rephrasing if I have a stylistic concern. However, the New Yorker wouldn't; in an article entitled "In Defense of 'Nutty Commas,'" they justify both the use of the serial comma and a low hurdle for considering something a nonessential element. So they have:
“I invited my boss, her nephew, and my acupuncturist to the party.” (straightforward serial comma example)
“Before Atwater died, of brain cancer, in 1991, he expressed regret …” ("of brain cancer, in 1991" is treated as a pair of nonessential elements)
Whatever you choose, be consistent.
answered Jun 11 at 12:58
TaliesinMerlinTaliesinMerlin
11.4k12144
1
They disliked relevant examples, sample sentences and, mostly, disagreement of any kind. :)
– Lambie
Jun 11 at 13:24
add a comment |
Yes. You are applying two distinct comma guidelines consistently:
The commas around a nonessential element. (Purdue OWL has some examples.)
Commas (including the serial comma) separating items in a list of three or more elements. (Number 5 in this list.)
There is no standard guideline for what to do if the application of multiple rules leads to a clusterfudge of commas. Whether you would rephrase or omit the serial comma in your example is an editorial decision. I'd suggest rephrasing if I have a stylistic concern. However, the New Yorker wouldn't; in an article entitled "In Defense of 'Nutty Commas,'" they justify both the use of the serial comma and a low hurdle for considering something a nonessential element. So they have:
“I invited my boss, her nephew, and my acupuncturist to the party.” (straightforward serial comma example)
“Before Atwater died, of brain cancer, in 1991, he expressed regret …” ("of brain cancer, in 1991" is treated as a pair of nonessential elements)
Whatever you choose, be consistent.
answered Jun 11 at 12:58
TaliesinMerlinTaliesinMerlin
11.4k12144
1
They disliked relevant examples, sample sentences and, mostly, disagreement of any kind. :)
– Lambie
Jun 11 at 13:24
add a comment |
Yes. You are applying two distinct comma guidelines consistently:
The commas around a nonessential element. (Purdue OWL has some examples.)
Commas (including the serial comma) separating items in a list of three or more elements. (Number 5 in this list.)
There is no standard guideline for what to do if the application of multiple rules leads to a clusterfudge of commas. Whether you would rephrase or omit the serial comma in your example is an editorial decision. I'd suggest rephrasing if I have a stylistic concern. However, the New Yorker wouldn't; in an article entitled "In Defense of 'Nutty Commas,'" they justify both the use of the serial comma and a low hurdle for considering something a nonessential element. So they have:
“I invited my boss, her nephew, and my acupuncturist to the party.” (straightforward serial comma example)
“Before Atwater died, of brain cancer, in 1991, he expressed regret …” ("of brain cancer, in 1991" is treated as a pair of nonessential elements)
Whatever you choose, be consistent.
answered Jun 11 at 12:58
TaliesinMerlinTaliesinMerlin
11.4k12144
Yes. You are applying two distinct comma guidelines consistently:
The commas around a nonessential element. (Purdue OWL has some examples.)
Commas (including the serial comma) separating items in a list of three or more elements. (Number 5 in this list.)
There is no standard guideline for what to do if the application of multiple rules leads to a clusterfudge of commas. Whether you would rephrase or omit the serial comma in your example is an editorial decision. I'd suggest rephrasing if I have a stylistic concern. However, the New Yorker wouldn't; in an article entitled "In Defense of 'Nutty Commas,'" they justify both the use of the serial comma and a low hurdle for considering something a nonessential element. So they have:
“I invited my boss, her nephew, and my acupuncturist to the party.” (straightforward serial comma example)
“Before Atwater died, of brain cancer, in 1991, he expressed regret …” ("of brain cancer, in 1991" is treated as a pair of nonessential elements)
Whatever you choose, be consistent.
answered Jun 11 at 12:58
TaliesinMerlinTaliesinMerlin
11.4k12144
answered Jun 11 at 12:58
TaliesinMerlinTaliesinMerlin
11.4k12144
answered Jun 11 at 12:58
TaliesinMerlinTaliesinMerlin
11.4k12144
answered Jun 11 at 12:58
TaliesinMerlinTaliesinMerlin
11.4k12144
11.4k12144
1
They disliked relevant examples, sample sentences and, mostly, disagreement of any kind. :)
– Lambie
Jun 11 at 13:24
add a comment |
1
They disliked relevant examples, sample sentences and, mostly, disagreement of any kind. :)
– Lambie
Jun 11 at 13:24
1
1
They disliked relevant examples, sample sentences and, mostly, disagreement of any kind. :)
– Lambie
Jun 11 at 13:24
They disliked relevant examples, sample sentences and, mostly, disagreement of any kind. :)
– Lambie
Jun 11 at 13:24
add a comment |
dwelle is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
dwelle is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
dwelle is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
dwelle is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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4
It is at The New Yorker and other publications. This is a matter of style, and there is no "correct" style.
– Robusto
Jun 11 at 12:22
1
As usual, there exists in these areas a point beyond which trying to force a convention to hold (or to pursue an analysis using existing terminology) becomes nonsensical. '... stifling curiosity, creativity, and, ultimately, progress' doesn't conform to the minimalist (subject to reasonable clarity) trend in punctuation nowadays. '... stifling curiosity, creativity, and ultimately progress' looks far better. Even if it doesn't conform to the third law of wiggleuse.
– Edwin Ashworth
Jun 11 at 12:52
1
If you are uncomfortable with this clash of conventions, you could change something. "stifling curiosity, creativity, and (ultimately) progress."
– GEdgar
Jun 11 at 13:43
1
I don't know the names of the conventions, but using alternate delimiters is valid. One version I was taught would have you upgrade the Oxford commas to semi colons, there. "...curiosity; creativity; and, ultimately, progress." Another would have you leave the commas off that "ultimately". Yet another would use dashes for it. That is probably what I'd do. "...creativity, and--ultimately--progress."
– The Nate
Jun 11 at 14:59
1
@TheNate "creativity, and -- ultimately -- progress" looks like a winner.
– Nat
Jun 11 at 22:47