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Why don't we have a weaning party like Avraham did?
Why did Hashem not tell Avraham to have a Bris earlier?why don't Jews meditate?How did Avraham discover that God exists?Did Avraham invite the angels into his house?Looking for midrash on the reason why Avraham bought MachpelahDid Avraham Avinu really have a daughter named Bakol?Did Avraham learn Lot's fate?Why did the angel who destroyed Sodom have to visit Avraham?Why didn't Avraham argue with HaShem about sacrificing Yitzchak just like he argued with Him about destroying Sodom?In what manner / How, did Hashem appear to Avraham at Mamre? (Gen 18:1)
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וַיִּגְדַּל הַיֶּלֶד וַיִּגָּמַל וַיַּעַשׂ אַבְרָהָם מִשְׁתֶּה גָדוֹל בְּיוֹם הִגָּמֵל אֶת־יִצְחָק׃
The child [Itzchak] grew up and was weaned, and Abraham held a great feast on the day that Isaac was weaned. (Rashi/B"R - 24 months) Ber. 21,8
Usually, we turn all of our forefather's behaviors into traditions even when they weren't commanded. But I don't recall throwing such a Seudah for my kids, neither participating in those of others'.
The Torah does not repeat that tradition for other descendants, but neither it mentions having circumcision, so we don't have a "one-time" claim.
Why this custom didn't make it into our tradition?
minhag abraham
asked Jun 17 at 10:00
Al BerkoAl Berko
7,7772 gold badges6 silver badges31 bronze badges
add a comment |
וַיִּגְדַּל הַיֶּלֶד וַיִּגָּמַל וַיַּעַשׂ אַבְרָהָם מִשְׁתֶּה גָדוֹל בְּיוֹם הִגָּמֵל אֶת־יִצְחָק׃
The child [Itzchak] grew up and was weaned, and Abraham held a great feast on the day that Isaac was weaned. (Rashi/B"R - 24 months) Ber. 21,8
Usually, we turn all of our forefather's behaviors into traditions even when they weren't commanded. But I don't recall throwing such a Seudah for my kids, neither participating in those of others'.
The Torah does not repeat that tradition for other descendants, but neither it mentions having circumcision, so we don't have a "one-time" claim.
Why this custom didn't make it into our tradition?
minhag abraham
asked Jun 17 at 10:00
Al BerkoAl Berko
7,7772 gold badges6 silver badges31 bronze badges
3
It does repeat circumcision here (but even in Abraham's circumcision it says explicitly that the commandment is for all generations)
– b a
Jun 17 at 10:20
1
sefaria.org/Beit_Yosef,_Yoreh_Deah.265.25.1
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 17:11
1
sefaria.org/Arukh_HaShulchan,_Yoreh_De'ah.265.37
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 17:12
1
sefaria.org/…
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 17:12
My bad, anyway, the opinions of Milah or Bar Mitzvah are both far away from Rashi. Why don't we follow the Pshat?
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 17:25
add a comment |
וַיִּגְדַּל הַיֶּלֶד וַיִּגָּמַל וַיַּעַשׂ אַבְרָהָם מִשְׁתֶּה גָדוֹל בְּיוֹם הִגָּמֵל אֶת־יִצְחָק׃
The child [Itzchak] grew up and was weaned, and Abraham held a great feast on the day that Isaac was weaned. (Rashi/B"R - 24 months) Ber. 21,8
Usually, we turn all of our forefather's behaviors into traditions even when they weren't commanded. But I don't recall throwing such a Seudah for my kids, neither participating in those of others'.
The Torah does not repeat that tradition for other descendants, but neither it mentions having circumcision, so we don't have a "one-time" claim.
Why this custom didn't make it into our tradition?
minhag abraham
asked Jun 17 at 10:00
Al BerkoAl Berko
7,7772 gold badges6 silver badges31 bronze badges
וַיִּגְדַּל הַיֶּלֶד וַיִּגָּמַל וַיַּעַשׂ אַבְרָהָם מִשְׁתֶּה גָדוֹל בְּיוֹם הִגָּמֵל אֶת־יִצְחָק׃
The child [Itzchak] grew up and was weaned, and Abraham held a great feast on the day that Isaac was weaned. (Rashi/B"R - 24 months) Ber. 21,8
Usually, we turn all of our forefather's behaviors into traditions even when they weren't commanded. But I don't recall throwing such a Seudah for my kids, neither participating in those of others'.
The Torah does not repeat that tradition for other descendants, but neither it mentions having circumcision, so we don't have a "one-time" claim.
Why this custom didn't make it into our tradition?
minhag abraham
minhag abraham
asked Jun 17 at 10:00
Al BerkoAl Berko
7,7772 gold badges6 silver badges31 bronze badges
asked Jun 17 at 10:00
Al BerkoAl Berko
7,7772 gold badges6 silver badges31 bronze badges
asked Jun 17 at 10:00
Al BerkoAl Berko
7,7772 gold badges6 silver badges31 bronze badges
asked Jun 17 at 10:00
Al BerkoAl Berko
7,7772 gold badges6 silver badges31 bronze badges
asked Jun 17 at 10:00
Al BerkoAl Berko
7,7772 gold badges6 silver badges31 bronze badges
7,7772 gold badges6 silver badges31 bronze badges
3
It does repeat circumcision here (but even in Abraham's circumcision it says explicitly that the commandment is for all generations)
– b a
Jun 17 at 10:20
1
sefaria.org/Beit_Yosef,_Yoreh_Deah.265.25.1
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 17:11
1
sefaria.org/Arukh_HaShulchan,_Yoreh_De'ah.265.37
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 17:12
1
sefaria.org/…
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 17:12
My bad, anyway, the opinions of Milah or Bar Mitzvah are both far away from Rashi. Why don't we follow the Pshat?
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 17:25
add a comment |
3
It does repeat circumcision here (but even in Abraham's circumcision it says explicitly that the commandment is for all generations)
– b a
Jun 17 at 10:20
1
sefaria.org/Beit_Yosef,_Yoreh_Deah.265.25.1
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 17:11
1
sefaria.org/Arukh_HaShulchan,_Yoreh_De'ah.265.37
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 17:12
1
sefaria.org/…
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 17:12
My bad, anyway, the opinions of Milah or Bar Mitzvah are both far away from Rashi. Why don't we follow the Pshat?
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 17:25
3
3
It does repeat circumcision here (but even in Abraham's circumcision it says explicitly that the commandment is for all generations)
– b a
Jun 17 at 10:20
It does repeat circumcision here (but even in Abraham's circumcision it says explicitly that the commandment is for all generations)
– b a
Jun 17 at 10:20
1
1
sefaria.org/Beit_Yosef,_Yoreh_Deah.265.25.1
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 17:11
sefaria.org/Beit_Yosef,_Yoreh_Deah.265.25.1
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 17:11
1
1
sefaria.org/Arukh_HaShulchan,_Yoreh_De'ah.265.37
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 17:12
sefaria.org/Arukh_HaShulchan,_Yoreh_De'ah.265.37
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 17:12
1
1
sefaria.org/…
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 17:12
sefaria.org/…
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 17:12
My bad, anyway, the opinions of Milah or Bar Mitzvah are both far away from Rashi. Why don't we follow the Pshat?
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 17:25
My bad, anyway, the opinions of Milah or Bar Mitzvah are both far away from Rashi. Why don't we follow the Pshat?
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 17:25
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
According to one opinion in the Midrash (Bereishis Rabbah 53:10), we do.
וַיִּגְדַּל הַיֶּלֶד וַיִּגָּמַל (בראשית כא, ח), רַבִּי הוֹשַׁעְיָה רַבָּה אָמַר נִגְמַל מִיֵּצֶר הָרָע. רַבָּנָן אָמְרֵי נִגְמַל מֵחֲלָבוֹ.
”And the child grew up and was weaned” – R’ Hoshaya Rabbah said, “He was weaned from the evil inclination.” The Rabbis say, “He was weaned from his milk.
As Etz Yosef ad. loc. explains R’ Hoshaya’s opinion:
נגמל מיצר הרע פירוש שנעשה בן י"ג שנה שאז נגמל הנער מיצה"ר שהוא כח התאווה החומרית ונכנס בו כח היצר טוב. ולכן מאז הוא מצווה ועושה. ולשמחה זו עשה אברהם משתה:
”He was weaned from the evil inclination” – the explanation is that he became a 13-year-old, that then the lad was weaned from his evil inclination, which is the power of strong desire, and the good inclination entered into him. Therefore, from then he was “one who was commanded and does,” and for this joy Avraham made a feast.
As Chabad notes, while the Bar Mitzvah celebration is a fairly recent custom, some 400 years old, this Midrash seems to be a strong source for doing so.
answered Jun 17 at 11:08
DonielFDonielF
19.3k1 gold badge29 silver badges97 bronze badges
1
Bar mitzvah=weaning parteyy
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 11:46
Interesting, and to the second opinion, acc. to Rashi? The two views ARE incompatible, so the later has to be explained also I think.
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 12:04
You know, many answers try to circumvent the question by offering an additional opinion that claims it wasn't so by some unnatural/non-literal explanation. But the question still stands acc. to the main question.
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 12:09
1
Interestingly enough, I'm seeing a small trend in people making what they sometimes call a baby "vort". It's essentially the equivalent of a baby "shower". IMO, it seems as more of an opportunity to receive presents.
– DanF
Jun 17 at 17:03
1
sefaria.org/Responsa_Benei_Banim,_Volume_II.17.7
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 17:08
|
show 6 more comments
I once heard (do not remember from who) that this Seuda was to thank Hashem for the major miracle that happened to Sara who was 90 when she gave birth to Yitzchok. She has already gone through menopause and the miracle of giving birth and then being able to nurse was major.
Perhaps as we do not merit such a miracle, woman do not have children once they are that stage, therefore we do not make such a Seuda.
answered Jun 17 at 10:42
Gershon GoldGershon Gold
112k8 gold badges188 silver badges438 bronze badges
You're saying it was Saudas Hodayah, interesting, but, then, why wait and link it to Itzhack's weaning?
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 12:03
@AlBerko bc nursing was miraculous as well
– Double AA♦
Jun 17 at 16:36
I remind you that Yokheved gave birth at 130 without a [explicit] miracle
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 16:55
add a comment |
Rashi states explicitly to Bereshit 21:8 that this was af the completion of the first 24 months of Yitzchok's life and as the Ikar Siftei Chachamim states, it coincided with Yitzchok no longer breast feeding from his mother, Sarah. Yitzchok began to consume wheat flour which is compared to Torah by Rabbi Elazar ben Azaryah like is found in Avot 3:17.
רַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר בֶּן עֲזַרְיָה אוֹמֵר, אִם אֵין תּוֹרָה, אֵין דֶּרֶךְ אֶרֶץ. אִם אֵין דֶּרֶךְ אֶרֶץ, אֵין תּוֹרָה. אִם אֵין חָכְמָה, אֵין יִרְאָה. אִם אֵין יִרְאָה, אֵין חָכְמָה. אִם אֵין בִּינָה, אֵין דַּעַת. אִם אֵין דַּעַת, אֵין בִּינָה. אִם אֵין קֶמַח, אֵין תּוֹרָה. אִם אֵין תּוֹרָה, אֵין קֶמַח.
So if you're looking for what celebration we actually do today that is associated with this, it would be the Upsherin, the first haircut given to a young Jewish boy after they enter their third year of life or as late as the completion of their 3rd birthday. At that time, the boy begins his formal Torah education and starts wearing tzitzit. See this Wikipedia page discussing the practice of Upsherin.
The difference in the two time ranges is to coincide with completing the 24 months like with Avraham, Sarah and Yitzchok, their son and the prohibition of Orlah, not benefitting from the fruit of Eretz Yisrael for the first 3 years.
Upsherin is practiced by many different Chassidic branches, Kabbalists following the teachings of the Ari z"l, and as noted in נטעי גבריאל - תגלחת הילדים הולכתם לחדר וסעודת החומש, Chapter 2, page 35, footnote 2, this is also the practice of some of the Jews of Yemen.
answered Jun 17 at 16:14
Yaacov DeaneYaacov Deane
8,4359 silver badges37 bronze badges
1
Can you better source that Upsherin is specifically for two year olds before their third birthday? I've never heard that before. Your link to Nitei Gavriel is very clear that the popular practice is not to cut the boys hair before 3 full years. But this is an interesting modern application of the OPs thought
– Double AA♦
Jun 17 at 16:42
See judaism.stackexchange.com/help/editing "If you see something that needs improvement, click edit! If you are not comfortable with the idea of your contributions being collaboratively edited by other trusted users, this may not be the site for you." Please return my constructive edits to your post, or make your own substantially similar ones to improve its readability and focus on addressing the question. Right now it is not clear which groups if any follow the minority practice of Upsherin at age two for this reason, and the discussion of groups for other traditions is distracting
– Double AA♦
Jun 17 at 18:08
If you mean like the edit changing my wording saying the minhag of the Jews of Yemen is to make the seudah for the upsherin to some of the Jews of Yemen, the citation I quoted is from Rav Tzalach who is one of the greatest poskim of the Teimani Jews who follow the Baladi practice like Rav Kapach. The other great path among the Teimani Jews is the Shami path of the Rashash zt”l. They follow the Ari. Are you suggesting there is some 3rd stream of practice among the the Teimani Jews? If so, please provide documentation. Your edit diminished the answer.
– Yaacov Deane
Jun 18 at 3:49
Most Baladi Jews don't have an Upsherin net-sah.org/en/node/34690 at least not in any European sense of the word maharitz.co.il/?CategoryID=292&ArticleID=4003
– Double AA♦
Jun 18 at 11:36
@DoubleAA Do you ever read this material? It says exactly what I have stated. It does emphasize that the Teimani Jews don't learn it out from the Ashkenazim. No surprise because their tradition is older. It also mentions that in the current day, (like many Jewish communities around the world where people have forgotten what their customs are due to a lack of learning or other difficulties) some no longer practice this or don't make a seudah, etc. But the Teimani minhag is to make the upsherin with seudah between 24 and 36 months. And he even brings a quote from a posek after Maharitz.
– Yaacov Deane
Jun 18 at 16:32
|
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
According to one opinion in the Midrash (Bereishis Rabbah 53:10), we do.
וַיִּגְדַּל הַיֶּלֶד וַיִּגָּמַל (בראשית כא, ח), רַבִּי הוֹשַׁעְיָה רַבָּה אָמַר נִגְמַל מִיֵּצֶר הָרָע. רַבָּנָן אָמְרֵי נִגְמַל מֵחֲלָבוֹ.
”And the child grew up and was weaned” – R’ Hoshaya Rabbah said, “He was weaned from the evil inclination.” The Rabbis say, “He was weaned from his milk.
As Etz Yosef ad. loc. explains R’ Hoshaya’s opinion:
נגמל מיצר הרע פירוש שנעשה בן י"ג שנה שאז נגמל הנער מיצה"ר שהוא כח התאווה החומרית ונכנס בו כח היצר טוב. ולכן מאז הוא מצווה ועושה. ולשמחה זו עשה אברהם משתה:
”He was weaned from the evil inclination” – the explanation is that he became a 13-year-old, that then the lad was weaned from his evil inclination, which is the power of strong desire, and the good inclination entered into him. Therefore, from then he was “one who was commanded and does,” and for this joy Avraham made a feast.
As Chabad notes, while the Bar Mitzvah celebration is a fairly recent custom, some 400 years old, this Midrash seems to be a strong source for doing so.
answered Jun 17 at 11:08
DonielFDonielF
19.3k1 gold badge29 silver badges97 bronze badges
1
Bar mitzvah=weaning parteyy
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 11:46
Interesting, and to the second opinion, acc. to Rashi? The two views ARE incompatible, so the later has to be explained also I think.
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 12:04
You know, many answers try to circumvent the question by offering an additional opinion that claims it wasn't so by some unnatural/non-literal explanation. But the question still stands acc. to the main question.
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 12:09
1
Interestingly enough, I'm seeing a small trend in people making what they sometimes call a baby "vort". It's essentially the equivalent of a baby "shower". IMO, it seems as more of an opportunity to receive presents.
– DanF
Jun 17 at 17:03
1
sefaria.org/Responsa_Benei_Banim,_Volume_II.17.7
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 17:08
|
show 6 more comments
According to one opinion in the Midrash (Bereishis Rabbah 53:10), we do.
וַיִּגְדַּל הַיֶּלֶד וַיִּגָּמַל (בראשית כא, ח), רַבִּי הוֹשַׁעְיָה רַבָּה אָמַר נִגְמַל מִיֵּצֶר הָרָע. רַבָּנָן אָמְרֵי נִגְמַל מֵחֲלָבוֹ.
”And the child grew up and was weaned” – R’ Hoshaya Rabbah said, “He was weaned from the evil inclination.” The Rabbis say, “He was weaned from his milk.
As Etz Yosef ad. loc. explains R’ Hoshaya’s opinion:
נגמל מיצר הרע פירוש שנעשה בן י"ג שנה שאז נגמל הנער מיצה"ר שהוא כח התאווה החומרית ונכנס בו כח היצר טוב. ולכן מאז הוא מצווה ועושה. ולשמחה זו עשה אברהם משתה:
”He was weaned from the evil inclination” – the explanation is that he became a 13-year-old, that then the lad was weaned from his evil inclination, which is the power of strong desire, and the good inclination entered into him. Therefore, from then he was “one who was commanded and does,” and for this joy Avraham made a feast.
As Chabad notes, while the Bar Mitzvah celebration is a fairly recent custom, some 400 years old, this Midrash seems to be a strong source for doing so.
answered Jun 17 at 11:08
DonielFDonielF
19.3k1 gold badge29 silver badges97 bronze badges
1
Bar mitzvah=weaning parteyy
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 11:46
Interesting, and to the second opinion, acc. to Rashi? The two views ARE incompatible, so the later has to be explained also I think.
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 12:04
You know, many answers try to circumvent the question by offering an additional opinion that claims it wasn't so by some unnatural/non-literal explanation. But the question still stands acc. to the main question.
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 12:09
1
Interestingly enough, I'm seeing a small trend in people making what they sometimes call a baby "vort". It's essentially the equivalent of a baby "shower". IMO, it seems as more of an opportunity to receive presents.
– DanF
Jun 17 at 17:03
1
sefaria.org/Responsa_Benei_Banim,_Volume_II.17.7
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 17:08
|
show 6 more comments
According to one opinion in the Midrash (Bereishis Rabbah 53:10), we do.
וַיִּגְדַּל הַיֶּלֶד וַיִּגָּמַל (בראשית כא, ח), רַבִּי הוֹשַׁעְיָה רַבָּה אָמַר נִגְמַל מִיֵּצֶר הָרָע. רַבָּנָן אָמְרֵי נִגְמַל מֵחֲלָבוֹ.
”And the child grew up and was weaned” – R’ Hoshaya Rabbah said, “He was weaned from the evil inclination.” The Rabbis say, “He was weaned from his milk.
As Etz Yosef ad. loc. explains R’ Hoshaya’s opinion:
נגמל מיצר הרע פירוש שנעשה בן י"ג שנה שאז נגמל הנער מיצה"ר שהוא כח התאווה החומרית ונכנס בו כח היצר טוב. ולכן מאז הוא מצווה ועושה. ולשמחה זו עשה אברהם משתה:
”He was weaned from the evil inclination” – the explanation is that he became a 13-year-old, that then the lad was weaned from his evil inclination, which is the power of strong desire, and the good inclination entered into him. Therefore, from then he was “one who was commanded and does,” and for this joy Avraham made a feast.
As Chabad notes, while the Bar Mitzvah celebration is a fairly recent custom, some 400 years old, this Midrash seems to be a strong source for doing so.
answered Jun 17 at 11:08
DonielFDonielF
19.3k1 gold badge29 silver badges97 bronze badges
According to one opinion in the Midrash (Bereishis Rabbah 53:10), we do.
וַיִּגְדַּל הַיֶּלֶד וַיִּגָּמַל (בראשית כא, ח), רַבִּי הוֹשַׁעְיָה רַבָּה אָמַר נִגְמַל מִיֵּצֶר הָרָע. רַבָּנָן אָמְרֵי נִגְמַל מֵחֲלָבוֹ.
”And the child grew up and was weaned” – R’ Hoshaya Rabbah said, “He was weaned from the evil inclination.” The Rabbis say, “He was weaned from his milk.
As Etz Yosef ad. loc. explains R’ Hoshaya’s opinion:
נגמל מיצר הרע פירוש שנעשה בן י"ג שנה שאז נגמל הנער מיצה"ר שהוא כח התאווה החומרית ונכנס בו כח היצר טוב. ולכן מאז הוא מצווה ועושה. ולשמחה זו עשה אברהם משתה:
”He was weaned from the evil inclination” – the explanation is that he became a 13-year-old, that then the lad was weaned from his evil inclination, which is the power of strong desire, and the good inclination entered into him. Therefore, from then he was “one who was commanded and does,” and for this joy Avraham made a feast.
As Chabad notes, while the Bar Mitzvah celebration is a fairly recent custom, some 400 years old, this Midrash seems to be a strong source for doing so.
answered Jun 17 at 11:08
DonielFDonielF
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answered Jun 17 at 11:08
DonielFDonielF
19.3k1 gold badge29 silver badges97 bronze badges
answered Jun 17 at 11:08
DonielFDonielF
19.3k1 gold badge29 silver badges97 bronze badges
answered Jun 17 at 11:08
DonielFDonielF
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19.3k1 gold badge29 silver badges97 bronze badges
1
Bar mitzvah=weaning parteyy
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 11:46
Interesting, and to the second opinion, acc. to Rashi? The two views ARE incompatible, so the later has to be explained also I think.
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 12:04
You know, many answers try to circumvent the question by offering an additional opinion that claims it wasn't so by some unnatural/non-literal explanation. But the question still stands acc. to the main question.
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 12:09
1
Interestingly enough, I'm seeing a small trend in people making what they sometimes call a baby "vort". It's essentially the equivalent of a baby "shower". IMO, it seems as more of an opportunity to receive presents.
– DanF
Jun 17 at 17:03
1
sefaria.org/Responsa_Benei_Banim,_Volume_II.17.7
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 17:08
|
show 6 more comments
1
Bar mitzvah=weaning parteyy
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 11:46
Interesting, and to the second opinion, acc. to Rashi? The two views ARE incompatible, so the later has to be explained also I think.
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 12:04
You know, many answers try to circumvent the question by offering an additional opinion that claims it wasn't so by some unnatural/non-literal explanation. But the question still stands acc. to the main question.
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 12:09
1
Interestingly enough, I'm seeing a small trend in people making what they sometimes call a baby "vort". It's essentially the equivalent of a baby "shower". IMO, it seems as more of an opportunity to receive presents.
– DanF
Jun 17 at 17:03
1
sefaria.org/Responsa_Benei_Banim,_Volume_II.17.7
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 17:08
1
1
Bar mitzvah=weaning parteyy
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 11:46
Bar mitzvah=weaning parteyy
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 11:46
Interesting, and to the second opinion, acc. to Rashi? The two views ARE incompatible, so the later has to be explained also I think.
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 12:04
Interesting, and to the second opinion, acc. to Rashi? The two views ARE incompatible, so the later has to be explained also I think.
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 12:04
You know, many answers try to circumvent the question by offering an additional opinion that claims it wasn't so by some unnatural/non-literal explanation. But the question still stands acc. to the main question.
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 12:09
You know, many answers try to circumvent the question by offering an additional opinion that claims it wasn't so by some unnatural/non-literal explanation. But the question still stands acc. to the main question.
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 12:09
1
1
Interestingly enough, I'm seeing a small trend in people making what they sometimes call a baby "vort". It's essentially the equivalent of a baby "shower". IMO, it seems as more of an opportunity to receive presents.
– DanF
Jun 17 at 17:03
Interestingly enough, I'm seeing a small trend in people making what they sometimes call a baby "vort". It's essentially the equivalent of a baby "shower". IMO, it seems as more of an opportunity to receive presents.
– DanF
Jun 17 at 17:03
1
1
sefaria.org/Responsa_Benei_Banim,_Volume_II.17.7
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 17:08
sefaria.org/Responsa_Benei_Banim,_Volume_II.17.7
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 17:08
|
show 6 more comments
I once heard (do not remember from who) that this Seuda was to thank Hashem for the major miracle that happened to Sara who was 90 when she gave birth to Yitzchok. She has already gone through menopause and the miracle of giving birth and then being able to nurse was major.
Perhaps as we do not merit such a miracle, woman do not have children once they are that stage, therefore we do not make such a Seuda.
answered Jun 17 at 10:42
Gershon GoldGershon Gold
112k8 gold badges188 silver badges438 bronze badges
You're saying it was Saudas Hodayah, interesting, but, then, why wait and link it to Itzhack's weaning?
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 12:03
@AlBerko bc nursing was miraculous as well
– Double AA♦
Jun 17 at 16:36
I remind you that Yokheved gave birth at 130 without a [explicit] miracle
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 16:55
add a comment |
I once heard (do not remember from who) that this Seuda was to thank Hashem for the major miracle that happened to Sara who was 90 when she gave birth to Yitzchok. She has already gone through menopause and the miracle of giving birth and then being able to nurse was major.
Perhaps as we do not merit such a miracle, woman do not have children once they are that stage, therefore we do not make such a Seuda.
answered Jun 17 at 10:42
Gershon GoldGershon Gold
112k8 gold badges188 silver badges438 bronze badges
You're saying it was Saudas Hodayah, interesting, but, then, why wait and link it to Itzhack's weaning?
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 12:03
@AlBerko bc nursing was miraculous as well
– Double AA♦
Jun 17 at 16:36
I remind you that Yokheved gave birth at 130 without a [explicit] miracle
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 16:55
add a comment |
I once heard (do not remember from who) that this Seuda was to thank Hashem for the major miracle that happened to Sara who was 90 when she gave birth to Yitzchok. She has already gone through menopause and the miracle of giving birth and then being able to nurse was major.
Perhaps as we do not merit such a miracle, woman do not have children once they are that stage, therefore we do not make such a Seuda.
answered Jun 17 at 10:42
Gershon GoldGershon Gold
112k8 gold badges188 silver badges438 bronze badges
I once heard (do not remember from who) that this Seuda was to thank Hashem for the major miracle that happened to Sara who was 90 when she gave birth to Yitzchok. She has already gone through menopause and the miracle of giving birth and then being able to nurse was major.
Perhaps as we do not merit such a miracle, woman do not have children once they are that stage, therefore we do not make such a Seuda.
answered Jun 17 at 10:42
Gershon GoldGershon Gold
112k8 gold badges188 silver badges438 bronze badges
answered Jun 17 at 10:42
Gershon GoldGershon Gold
112k8 gold badges188 silver badges438 bronze badges
answered Jun 17 at 10:42
Gershon GoldGershon Gold
112k8 gold badges188 silver badges438 bronze badges
answered Jun 17 at 10:42
Gershon GoldGershon Gold
112k8 gold badges188 silver badges438 bronze badges
112k8 gold badges188 silver badges438 bronze badges
You're saying it was Saudas Hodayah, interesting, but, then, why wait and link it to Itzhack's weaning?
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 12:03
@AlBerko bc nursing was miraculous as well
– Double AA♦
Jun 17 at 16:36
I remind you that Yokheved gave birth at 130 without a [explicit] miracle
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 16:55
add a comment |
You're saying it was Saudas Hodayah, interesting, but, then, why wait and link it to Itzhack's weaning?
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 12:03
@AlBerko bc nursing was miraculous as well
– Double AA♦
Jun 17 at 16:36
I remind you that Yokheved gave birth at 130 without a [explicit] miracle
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 16:55
You're saying it was Saudas Hodayah, interesting, but, then, why wait and link it to Itzhack's weaning?
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 12:03
You're saying it was Saudas Hodayah, interesting, but, then, why wait and link it to Itzhack's weaning?
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 12:03
@AlBerko bc nursing was miraculous as well
– Double AA♦
Jun 17 at 16:36
@AlBerko bc nursing was miraculous as well
– Double AA♦
Jun 17 at 16:36
I remind you that Yokheved gave birth at 130 without a [explicit] miracle
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 16:55
I remind you that Yokheved gave birth at 130 without a [explicit] miracle
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 16:55
add a comment |
Rashi states explicitly to Bereshit 21:8 that this was af the completion of the first 24 months of Yitzchok's life and as the Ikar Siftei Chachamim states, it coincided with Yitzchok no longer breast feeding from his mother, Sarah. Yitzchok began to consume wheat flour which is compared to Torah by Rabbi Elazar ben Azaryah like is found in Avot 3:17.
רַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר בֶּן עֲזַרְיָה אוֹמֵר, אִם אֵין תּוֹרָה, אֵין דֶּרֶךְ אֶרֶץ. אִם אֵין דֶּרֶךְ אֶרֶץ, אֵין תּוֹרָה. אִם אֵין חָכְמָה, אֵין יִרְאָה. אִם אֵין יִרְאָה, אֵין חָכְמָה. אִם אֵין בִּינָה, אֵין דַּעַת. אִם אֵין דַּעַת, אֵין בִּינָה. אִם אֵין קֶמַח, אֵין תּוֹרָה. אִם אֵין תּוֹרָה, אֵין קֶמַח.
So if you're looking for what celebration we actually do today that is associated with this, it would be the Upsherin, the first haircut given to a young Jewish boy after they enter their third year of life or as late as the completion of their 3rd birthday. At that time, the boy begins his formal Torah education and starts wearing tzitzit. See this Wikipedia page discussing the practice of Upsherin.
The difference in the two time ranges is to coincide with completing the 24 months like with Avraham, Sarah and Yitzchok, their son and the prohibition of Orlah, not benefitting from the fruit of Eretz Yisrael for the first 3 years.
Upsherin is practiced by many different Chassidic branches, Kabbalists following the teachings of the Ari z"l, and as noted in נטעי גבריאל - תגלחת הילדים הולכתם לחדר וסעודת החומש, Chapter 2, page 35, footnote 2, this is also the practice of some of the Jews of Yemen.
answered Jun 17 at 16:14
Yaacov DeaneYaacov Deane
8,4359 silver badges37 bronze badges
1
Can you better source that Upsherin is specifically for two year olds before their third birthday? I've never heard that before. Your link to Nitei Gavriel is very clear that the popular practice is not to cut the boys hair before 3 full years. But this is an interesting modern application of the OPs thought
– Double AA♦
Jun 17 at 16:42
See judaism.stackexchange.com/help/editing "If you see something that needs improvement, click edit! If you are not comfortable with the idea of your contributions being collaboratively edited by other trusted users, this may not be the site for you." Please return my constructive edits to your post, or make your own substantially similar ones to improve its readability and focus on addressing the question. Right now it is not clear which groups if any follow the minority practice of Upsherin at age two for this reason, and the discussion of groups for other traditions is distracting
– Double AA♦
Jun 17 at 18:08
If you mean like the edit changing my wording saying the minhag of the Jews of Yemen is to make the seudah for the upsherin to some of the Jews of Yemen, the citation I quoted is from Rav Tzalach who is one of the greatest poskim of the Teimani Jews who follow the Baladi practice like Rav Kapach. The other great path among the Teimani Jews is the Shami path of the Rashash zt”l. They follow the Ari. Are you suggesting there is some 3rd stream of practice among the the Teimani Jews? If so, please provide documentation. Your edit diminished the answer.
– Yaacov Deane
Jun 18 at 3:49
Most Baladi Jews don't have an Upsherin net-sah.org/en/node/34690 at least not in any European sense of the word maharitz.co.il/?CategoryID=292&ArticleID=4003
– Double AA♦
Jun 18 at 11:36
@DoubleAA Do you ever read this material? It says exactly what I have stated. It does emphasize that the Teimani Jews don't learn it out from the Ashkenazim. No surprise because their tradition is older. It also mentions that in the current day, (like many Jewish communities around the world where people have forgotten what their customs are due to a lack of learning or other difficulties) some no longer practice this or don't make a seudah, etc. But the Teimani minhag is to make the upsherin with seudah between 24 and 36 months. And he even brings a quote from a posek after Maharitz.
– Yaacov Deane
Jun 18 at 16:32
|
show 1 more comment
Rashi states explicitly to Bereshit 21:8 that this was af the completion of the first 24 months of Yitzchok's life and as the Ikar Siftei Chachamim states, it coincided with Yitzchok no longer breast feeding from his mother, Sarah. Yitzchok began to consume wheat flour which is compared to Torah by Rabbi Elazar ben Azaryah like is found in Avot 3:17.
רַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר בֶּן עֲזַרְיָה אוֹמֵר, אִם אֵין תּוֹרָה, אֵין דֶּרֶךְ אֶרֶץ. אִם אֵין דֶּרֶךְ אֶרֶץ, אֵין תּוֹרָה. אִם אֵין חָכְמָה, אֵין יִרְאָה. אִם אֵין יִרְאָה, אֵין חָכְמָה. אִם אֵין בִּינָה, אֵין דַּעַת. אִם אֵין דַּעַת, אֵין בִּינָה. אִם אֵין קֶמַח, אֵין תּוֹרָה. אִם אֵין תּוֹרָה, אֵין קֶמַח.
So if you're looking for what celebration we actually do today that is associated with this, it would be the Upsherin, the first haircut given to a young Jewish boy after they enter their third year of life or as late as the completion of their 3rd birthday. At that time, the boy begins his formal Torah education and starts wearing tzitzit. See this Wikipedia page discussing the practice of Upsherin.
The difference in the two time ranges is to coincide with completing the 24 months like with Avraham, Sarah and Yitzchok, their son and the prohibition of Orlah, not benefitting from the fruit of Eretz Yisrael for the first 3 years.
Upsherin is practiced by many different Chassidic branches, Kabbalists following the teachings of the Ari z"l, and as noted in נטעי גבריאל - תגלחת הילדים הולכתם לחדר וסעודת החומש, Chapter 2, page 35, footnote 2, this is also the practice of some of the Jews of Yemen.
answered Jun 17 at 16:14
Yaacov DeaneYaacov Deane
8,4359 silver badges37 bronze badges
1
Can you better source that Upsherin is specifically for two year olds before their third birthday? I've never heard that before. Your link to Nitei Gavriel is very clear that the popular practice is not to cut the boys hair before 3 full years. But this is an interesting modern application of the OPs thought
– Double AA♦
Jun 17 at 16:42
See judaism.stackexchange.com/help/editing "If you see something that needs improvement, click edit! If you are not comfortable with the idea of your contributions being collaboratively edited by other trusted users, this may not be the site for you." Please return my constructive edits to your post, or make your own substantially similar ones to improve its readability and focus on addressing the question. Right now it is not clear which groups if any follow the minority practice of Upsherin at age two for this reason, and the discussion of groups for other traditions is distracting
– Double AA♦
Jun 17 at 18:08
If you mean like the edit changing my wording saying the minhag of the Jews of Yemen is to make the seudah for the upsherin to some of the Jews of Yemen, the citation I quoted is from Rav Tzalach who is one of the greatest poskim of the Teimani Jews who follow the Baladi practice like Rav Kapach. The other great path among the Teimani Jews is the Shami path of the Rashash zt”l. They follow the Ari. Are you suggesting there is some 3rd stream of practice among the the Teimani Jews? If so, please provide documentation. Your edit diminished the answer.
– Yaacov Deane
Jun 18 at 3:49
Most Baladi Jews don't have an Upsherin net-sah.org/en/node/34690 at least not in any European sense of the word maharitz.co.il/?CategoryID=292&ArticleID=4003
– Double AA♦
Jun 18 at 11:36
@DoubleAA Do you ever read this material? It says exactly what I have stated. It does emphasize that the Teimani Jews don't learn it out from the Ashkenazim. No surprise because their tradition is older. It also mentions that in the current day, (like many Jewish communities around the world where people have forgotten what their customs are due to a lack of learning or other difficulties) some no longer practice this or don't make a seudah, etc. But the Teimani minhag is to make the upsherin with seudah between 24 and 36 months. And he even brings a quote from a posek after Maharitz.
– Yaacov Deane
Jun 18 at 16:32
|
show 1 more comment
Rashi states explicitly to Bereshit 21:8 that this was af the completion of the first 24 months of Yitzchok's life and as the Ikar Siftei Chachamim states, it coincided with Yitzchok no longer breast feeding from his mother, Sarah. Yitzchok began to consume wheat flour which is compared to Torah by Rabbi Elazar ben Azaryah like is found in Avot 3:17.
רַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר בֶּן עֲזַרְיָה אוֹמֵר, אִם אֵין תּוֹרָה, אֵין דֶּרֶךְ אֶרֶץ. אִם אֵין דֶּרֶךְ אֶרֶץ, אֵין תּוֹרָה. אִם אֵין חָכְמָה, אֵין יִרְאָה. אִם אֵין יִרְאָה, אֵין חָכְמָה. אִם אֵין בִּינָה, אֵין דַּעַת. אִם אֵין דַּעַת, אֵין בִּינָה. אִם אֵין קֶמַח, אֵין תּוֹרָה. אִם אֵין תּוֹרָה, אֵין קֶמַח.
So if you're looking for what celebration we actually do today that is associated with this, it would be the Upsherin, the first haircut given to a young Jewish boy after they enter their third year of life or as late as the completion of their 3rd birthday. At that time, the boy begins his formal Torah education and starts wearing tzitzit. See this Wikipedia page discussing the practice of Upsherin.
The difference in the two time ranges is to coincide with completing the 24 months like with Avraham, Sarah and Yitzchok, their son and the prohibition of Orlah, not benefitting from the fruit of Eretz Yisrael for the first 3 years.
Upsherin is practiced by many different Chassidic branches, Kabbalists following the teachings of the Ari z"l, and as noted in נטעי גבריאל - תגלחת הילדים הולכתם לחדר וסעודת החומש, Chapter 2, page 35, footnote 2, this is also the practice of some of the Jews of Yemen.
answered Jun 17 at 16:14
Yaacov DeaneYaacov Deane
8,4359 silver badges37 bronze badges
Rashi states explicitly to Bereshit 21:8 that this was af the completion of the first 24 months of Yitzchok's life and as the Ikar Siftei Chachamim states, it coincided with Yitzchok no longer breast feeding from his mother, Sarah. Yitzchok began to consume wheat flour which is compared to Torah by Rabbi Elazar ben Azaryah like is found in Avot 3:17.
רַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר בֶּן עֲזַרְיָה אוֹמֵר, אִם אֵין תּוֹרָה, אֵין דֶּרֶךְ אֶרֶץ. אִם אֵין דֶּרֶךְ אֶרֶץ, אֵין תּוֹרָה. אִם אֵין חָכְמָה, אֵין יִרְאָה. אִם אֵין יִרְאָה, אֵין חָכְמָה. אִם אֵין בִּינָה, אֵין דַּעַת. אִם אֵין דַּעַת, אֵין בִּינָה. אִם אֵין קֶמַח, אֵין תּוֹרָה. אִם אֵין תּוֹרָה, אֵין קֶמַח.
So if you're looking for what celebration we actually do today that is associated with this, it would be the Upsherin, the first haircut given to a young Jewish boy after they enter their third year of life or as late as the completion of their 3rd birthday. At that time, the boy begins his formal Torah education and starts wearing tzitzit. See this Wikipedia page discussing the practice of Upsherin.
The difference in the two time ranges is to coincide with completing the 24 months like with Avraham, Sarah and Yitzchok, their son and the prohibition of Orlah, not benefitting from the fruit of Eretz Yisrael for the first 3 years.
Upsherin is practiced by many different Chassidic branches, Kabbalists following the teachings of the Ari z"l, and as noted in נטעי גבריאל - תגלחת הילדים הולכתם לחדר וסעודת החומש, Chapter 2, page 35, footnote 2, this is also the practice of some of the Jews of Yemen.
answered Jun 17 at 16:14
Yaacov DeaneYaacov Deane
8,4359 silver badges37 bronze badges
edited Jun 17 at 18:04
answered Jun 17 at 16:14
Yaacov DeaneYaacov Deane
8,4359 silver badges37 bronze badges
answered Jun 17 at 16:14
Yaacov DeaneYaacov Deane
8,4359 silver badges37 bronze badges
answered Jun 17 at 16:14
Yaacov DeaneYaacov Deane
8,4359 silver badges37 bronze badges
8,4359 silver badges37 bronze badges
1
Can you better source that Upsherin is specifically for two year olds before their third birthday? I've never heard that before. Your link to Nitei Gavriel is very clear that the popular practice is not to cut the boys hair before 3 full years. But this is an interesting modern application of the OPs thought
– Double AA♦
Jun 17 at 16:42
See judaism.stackexchange.com/help/editing "If you see something that needs improvement, click edit! If you are not comfortable with the idea of your contributions being collaboratively edited by other trusted users, this may not be the site for you." Please return my constructive edits to your post, or make your own substantially similar ones to improve its readability and focus on addressing the question. Right now it is not clear which groups if any follow the minority practice of Upsherin at age two for this reason, and the discussion of groups for other traditions is distracting
– Double AA♦
Jun 17 at 18:08
If you mean like the edit changing my wording saying the minhag of the Jews of Yemen is to make the seudah for the upsherin to some of the Jews of Yemen, the citation I quoted is from Rav Tzalach who is one of the greatest poskim of the Teimani Jews who follow the Baladi practice like Rav Kapach. The other great path among the Teimani Jews is the Shami path of the Rashash zt”l. They follow the Ari. Are you suggesting there is some 3rd stream of practice among the the Teimani Jews? If so, please provide documentation. Your edit diminished the answer.
– Yaacov Deane
Jun 18 at 3:49
Most Baladi Jews don't have an Upsherin net-sah.org/en/node/34690 at least not in any European sense of the word maharitz.co.il/?CategoryID=292&ArticleID=4003
– Double AA♦
Jun 18 at 11:36
@DoubleAA Do you ever read this material? It says exactly what I have stated. It does emphasize that the Teimani Jews don't learn it out from the Ashkenazim. No surprise because their tradition is older. It also mentions that in the current day, (like many Jewish communities around the world where people have forgotten what their customs are due to a lack of learning or other difficulties) some no longer practice this or don't make a seudah, etc. But the Teimani minhag is to make the upsherin with seudah between 24 and 36 months. And he even brings a quote from a posek after Maharitz.
– Yaacov Deane
Jun 18 at 16:32
|
show 1 more comment
1
Can you better source that Upsherin is specifically for two year olds before their third birthday? I've never heard that before. Your link to Nitei Gavriel is very clear that the popular practice is not to cut the boys hair before 3 full years. But this is an interesting modern application of the OPs thought
– Double AA♦
Jun 17 at 16:42
See judaism.stackexchange.com/help/editing "If you see something that needs improvement, click edit! If you are not comfortable with the idea of your contributions being collaboratively edited by other trusted users, this may not be the site for you." Please return my constructive edits to your post, or make your own substantially similar ones to improve its readability and focus on addressing the question. Right now it is not clear which groups if any follow the minority practice of Upsherin at age two for this reason, and the discussion of groups for other traditions is distracting
– Double AA♦
Jun 17 at 18:08
If you mean like the edit changing my wording saying the minhag of the Jews of Yemen is to make the seudah for the upsherin to some of the Jews of Yemen, the citation I quoted is from Rav Tzalach who is one of the greatest poskim of the Teimani Jews who follow the Baladi practice like Rav Kapach. The other great path among the Teimani Jews is the Shami path of the Rashash zt”l. They follow the Ari. Are you suggesting there is some 3rd stream of practice among the the Teimani Jews? If so, please provide documentation. Your edit diminished the answer.
– Yaacov Deane
Jun 18 at 3:49
Most Baladi Jews don't have an Upsherin net-sah.org/en/node/34690 at least not in any European sense of the word maharitz.co.il/?CategoryID=292&ArticleID=4003
– Double AA♦
Jun 18 at 11:36
@DoubleAA Do you ever read this material? It says exactly what I have stated. It does emphasize that the Teimani Jews don't learn it out from the Ashkenazim. No surprise because their tradition is older. It also mentions that in the current day, (like many Jewish communities around the world where people have forgotten what their customs are due to a lack of learning or other difficulties) some no longer practice this or don't make a seudah, etc. But the Teimani minhag is to make the upsherin with seudah between 24 and 36 months. And he even brings a quote from a posek after Maharitz.
– Yaacov Deane
Jun 18 at 16:32
1
1
Can you better source that Upsherin is specifically for two year olds before their third birthday? I've never heard that before. Your link to Nitei Gavriel is very clear that the popular practice is not to cut the boys hair before 3 full years. But this is an interesting modern application of the OPs thought
– Double AA♦
Jun 17 at 16:42
Can you better source that Upsherin is specifically for two year olds before their third birthday? I've never heard that before. Your link to Nitei Gavriel is very clear that the popular practice is not to cut the boys hair before 3 full years. But this is an interesting modern application of the OPs thought
– Double AA♦
Jun 17 at 16:42
See judaism.stackexchange.com/help/editing "If you see something that needs improvement, click edit! If you are not comfortable with the idea of your contributions being collaboratively edited by other trusted users, this may not be the site for you." Please return my constructive edits to your post, or make your own substantially similar ones to improve its readability and focus on addressing the question. Right now it is not clear which groups if any follow the minority practice of Upsherin at age two for this reason, and the discussion of groups for other traditions is distracting
– Double AA♦
Jun 17 at 18:08
See judaism.stackexchange.com/help/editing "If you see something that needs improvement, click edit! If you are not comfortable with the idea of your contributions being collaboratively edited by other trusted users, this may not be the site for you." Please return my constructive edits to your post, or make your own substantially similar ones to improve its readability and focus on addressing the question. Right now it is not clear which groups if any follow the minority practice of Upsherin at age two for this reason, and the discussion of groups for other traditions is distracting
– Double AA♦
Jun 17 at 18:08
If you mean like the edit changing my wording saying the minhag of the Jews of Yemen is to make the seudah for the upsherin to some of the Jews of Yemen, the citation I quoted is from Rav Tzalach who is one of the greatest poskim of the Teimani Jews who follow the Baladi practice like Rav Kapach. The other great path among the Teimani Jews is the Shami path of the Rashash zt”l. They follow the Ari. Are you suggesting there is some 3rd stream of practice among the the Teimani Jews? If so, please provide documentation. Your edit diminished the answer.
– Yaacov Deane
Jun 18 at 3:49
If you mean like the edit changing my wording saying the minhag of the Jews of Yemen is to make the seudah for the upsherin to some of the Jews of Yemen, the citation I quoted is from Rav Tzalach who is one of the greatest poskim of the Teimani Jews who follow the Baladi practice like Rav Kapach. The other great path among the Teimani Jews is the Shami path of the Rashash zt”l. They follow the Ari. Are you suggesting there is some 3rd stream of practice among the the Teimani Jews? If so, please provide documentation. Your edit diminished the answer.
– Yaacov Deane
Jun 18 at 3:49
Most Baladi Jews don't have an Upsherin net-sah.org/en/node/34690 at least not in any European sense of the word maharitz.co.il/?CategoryID=292&ArticleID=4003
– Double AA♦
Jun 18 at 11:36
Most Baladi Jews don't have an Upsherin net-sah.org/en/node/34690 at least not in any European sense of the word maharitz.co.il/?CategoryID=292&ArticleID=4003
– Double AA♦
Jun 18 at 11:36
@DoubleAA Do you ever read this material? It says exactly what I have stated. It does emphasize that the Teimani Jews don't learn it out from the Ashkenazim. No surprise because their tradition is older. It also mentions that in the current day, (like many Jewish communities around the world where people have forgotten what their customs are due to a lack of learning or other difficulties) some no longer practice this or don't make a seudah, etc. But the Teimani minhag is to make the upsherin with seudah between 24 and 36 months. And he even brings a quote from a posek after Maharitz.
– Yaacov Deane
Jun 18 at 16:32
@DoubleAA Do you ever read this material? It says exactly what I have stated. It does emphasize that the Teimani Jews don't learn it out from the Ashkenazim. No surprise because their tradition is older. It also mentions that in the current day, (like many Jewish communities around the world where people have forgotten what their customs are due to a lack of learning or other difficulties) some no longer practice this or don't make a seudah, etc. But the Teimani minhag is to make the upsherin with seudah between 24 and 36 months. And he even brings a quote from a posek after Maharitz.
– Yaacov Deane
Jun 18 at 16:32
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show 1 more comment
3
It does repeat circumcision here (but even in Abraham's circumcision it says explicitly that the commandment is for all generations)
– b a
Jun 17 at 10:20
1
sefaria.org/Beit_Yosef,_Yoreh_Deah.265.25.1
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 17:11
1
sefaria.org/Arukh_HaShulchan,_Yoreh_De'ah.265.37
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 17:12
1
sefaria.org/…
– Dr. Shmuel
Jun 17 at 17:12
My bad, anyway, the opinions of Milah or Bar Mitzvah are both far away from Rashi. Why don't we follow the Pshat?
– Al Berko
Jun 17 at 17:25