Is it legal for a supermarket to refuse to sell an adult beer if an adult with them doesn’t have their ID?Is it legal to sell food stamps in New York?What legal visitation rights do grandparents have with their grandchildren?When is a subtenant entitled to have their security deposit returned?Would it be legal for a bar to serve alcohol to a patron whose age was verified by another bar in the same state/city?Does householder have authority to confiscate guest's legal property?Do insurance companies have legal obligations to help their clients?In Washington: Is it legal to sell alcohol to someone without an ID who looks 90 years old, after asking to see their ID?Is it illegal for an adult to contact a minor if the minor's parents have instructed the adult not to do so?Purchase of alcohol with a minor presentPuzzle - different middle names, What is my legal name for employment in the U.S.?
3D Statue Park: U shapes
Replacing tongue and groove floorboards: but can't find a match
How do I address my Catering staff subordinate seen eating from a chafing dish before the customers?
What to do when you reach a conclusion and find out later on that someone else already did?
What do teaching faculty do during semester breaks?
Why isn't there a serious attempt at creating a third mass-appeal party in the US?
What is the meaning of "you has the wind of me"?
Is it correct to translate English noun adjuncts into adjectives?
Why are off grid solar setups only 12, 24, 48 VDC?
What does コテッと mean?
Singapore to Sydney to Canberra: where do we clear customs
Does academia have a lazy work culture?
Does the Intel 8086 CPU have user mode and kernel mode?
Is there a reason why I should not use the HaveIBeenPwned API to warn users about exposed passwords?
Timing/Stack question about abilities triggered during combat
How can I stop myself from micromanaging other PCs' actions?
What does "see" in "the Holy See" mean?
Why are so many countries still in the Commonwealth?
What are the exact meanings of roll, pitch and yaw?
Strange Cron Job takes up 100% of CPU Ubuntu 18 LTS Server
Can two figures have the same area, perimeter, and same number of segments have different shape?
Is it legal for private citizens to "impound" e-scooters?
Inadvertently nuked my disk permission structure - why?
TSA asking to see cell phone
Is it legal for a supermarket to refuse to sell an adult beer if an adult with them doesn’t have their ID?
Is it legal to sell food stamps in New York?What legal visitation rights do grandparents have with their grandchildren?When is a subtenant entitled to have their security deposit returned?Would it be legal for a bar to serve alcohol to a patron whose age was verified by another bar in the same state/city?Does householder have authority to confiscate guest's legal property?Do insurance companies have legal obligations to help their clients?In Washington: Is it legal to sell alcohol to someone without an ID who looks 90 years old, after asking to see their ID?Is it illegal for an adult to contact a minor if the minor's parents have instructed the adult not to do so?Purchase of alcohol with a minor presentPuzzle - different middle names, What is my legal name for employment in the U.S.?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
Today I went with my dad grocery shopping at a supermarket in New York (ShopRite) and he put a six-pack of beer in the cart.
They then wouldn’t let him buy the beer because they couldn’t ID me (21, but I dress for work so I look more like 25). Even when I left the store to wait in the car they made him check out at a different register.
Is this legal? I wasn’t buying anything; I was just helping him load stuff onto the conveyor belt.
united-states new-york alcohol ixl identification
edited Jul 17 at 9:28
Nij
2,5715 gold badges16 silver badges28 bronze badges
asked Jul 16 at 22:18
Louisa CarlsonLouisa Carlson
2081 gold badge2 silver badges5 bronze badges
|
show 8 more comments
Today I went with my dad grocery shopping at a supermarket in New York (ShopRite) and he put a six-pack of beer in the cart.
They then wouldn’t let him buy the beer because they couldn’t ID me (21, but I dress for work so I look more like 25). Even when I left the store to wait in the car they made him check out at a different register.
Is this legal? I wasn’t buying anything; I was just helping him load stuff onto the conveyor belt.
united-states new-york alcohol ixl identification
edited Jul 17 at 9:28
Nij
2,5715 gold badges16 silver badges28 bronze badges
asked Jul 16 at 22:18
Louisa CarlsonLouisa Carlson
2081 gold badge2 silver badges5 bronze badges
9
In the UK if you look under 25 (the legal drinking age is 18) you are required to prove your age and it is clearly written in large signs inside the shops. I was ID'd when aged 35.
– Vladimir F
Jul 17 at 7:41
3
Hi, and welcome to law.SE! Your question contained some details that are not relevant (such as why you do not like to carry a wallet). I edited these out to make the question more focussed and suitable for the site. Also, I added a tag to indicate this is in the US, since legal questions depend on jurisdiction. Feel free to re-edit if there is something wrong!
– sleske
Jul 17 at 7:45
10
From the store's perspective, you're not an adult, you're a possible minor.
– Nuclear Wang
Jul 17 at 12:42
9
This is weird and happens in Texas too. Parents can buy wine when their 5 year old is in tow, can legally let their kids drink at home with them, can LEGALLY let restaurants serve alcohol to their underage kids when the parent is with them in the restaurant! but if their kids look over 10 they can't sell the parent alcohol at a store unless they leave their kids out in the hot car. Lawmakers are nuts now.
– mark b
Jul 17 at 17:55
12
@VladimirF This question is not about the purchaser's age or ID / lack of ID. It is about the lack of ID of someone accompanying the purchaser. Nothing about that scenario is clearly written on shop signs.
– JBentley
Jul 18 at 2:28
|
show 8 more comments
Today I went with my dad grocery shopping at a supermarket in New York (ShopRite) and he put a six-pack of beer in the cart.
They then wouldn’t let him buy the beer because they couldn’t ID me (21, but I dress for work so I look more like 25). Even when I left the store to wait in the car they made him check out at a different register.
Is this legal? I wasn’t buying anything; I was just helping him load stuff onto the conveyor belt.
united-states new-york alcohol ixl identification
edited Jul 17 at 9:28
Nij
2,5715 gold badges16 silver badges28 bronze badges
asked Jul 16 at 22:18
Louisa CarlsonLouisa Carlson
2081 gold badge2 silver badges5 bronze badges
Today I went with my dad grocery shopping at a supermarket in New York (ShopRite) and he put a six-pack of beer in the cart.
They then wouldn’t let him buy the beer because they couldn’t ID me (21, but I dress for work so I look more like 25). Even when I left the store to wait in the car they made him check out at a different register.
Is this legal? I wasn’t buying anything; I was just helping him load stuff onto the conveyor belt.
united-states new-york alcohol ixl identification
united-states new-york alcohol ixl identification
edited Jul 17 at 9:28
Nij
2,5715 gold badges16 silver badges28 bronze badges
asked Jul 16 at 22:18
Louisa CarlsonLouisa Carlson
2081 gold badge2 silver badges5 bronze badges
edited Jul 17 at 9:28
Nij
2,5715 gold badges16 silver badges28 bronze badges
asked Jul 16 at 22:18
Louisa CarlsonLouisa Carlson
2081 gold badge2 silver badges5 bronze badges
edited Jul 17 at 9:28
Nij
2,5715 gold badges16 silver badges28 bronze badges
edited Jul 17 at 9:28
Nij
2,5715 gold badges16 silver badges28 bronze badges
edited Jul 17 at 9:28
Nij
2,5715 gold badges16 silver badges28 bronze badges
2,5715 gold badges16 silver badges28 bronze badges
asked Jul 16 at 22:18
Louisa CarlsonLouisa Carlson
2081 gold badge2 silver badges5 bronze badges
asked Jul 16 at 22:18
Louisa CarlsonLouisa Carlson
2081 gold badge2 silver badges5 bronze badges
asked Jul 16 at 22:18
Louisa CarlsonLouisa Carlson
2081 gold badge2 silver badges5 bronze badges
2081 gold badge2 silver badges5 bronze badges
9
In the UK if you look under 25 (the legal drinking age is 18) you are required to prove your age and it is clearly written in large signs inside the shops. I was ID'd when aged 35.
– Vladimir F
Jul 17 at 7:41
3
Hi, and welcome to law.SE! Your question contained some details that are not relevant (such as why you do not like to carry a wallet). I edited these out to make the question more focussed and suitable for the site. Also, I added a tag to indicate this is in the US, since legal questions depend on jurisdiction. Feel free to re-edit if there is something wrong!
– sleske
Jul 17 at 7:45
10
From the store's perspective, you're not an adult, you're a possible minor.
– Nuclear Wang
Jul 17 at 12:42
9
This is weird and happens in Texas too. Parents can buy wine when their 5 year old is in tow, can legally let their kids drink at home with them, can LEGALLY let restaurants serve alcohol to their underage kids when the parent is with them in the restaurant! but if their kids look over 10 they can't sell the parent alcohol at a store unless they leave their kids out in the hot car. Lawmakers are nuts now.
– mark b
Jul 17 at 17:55
12
@VladimirF This question is not about the purchaser's age or ID / lack of ID. It is about the lack of ID of someone accompanying the purchaser. Nothing about that scenario is clearly written on shop signs.
– JBentley
Jul 18 at 2:28
|
show 8 more comments
9
In the UK if you look under 25 (the legal drinking age is 18) you are required to prove your age and it is clearly written in large signs inside the shops. I was ID'd when aged 35.
– Vladimir F
Jul 17 at 7:41
3
Hi, and welcome to law.SE! Your question contained some details that are not relevant (such as why you do not like to carry a wallet). I edited these out to make the question more focussed and suitable for the site. Also, I added a tag to indicate this is in the US, since legal questions depend on jurisdiction. Feel free to re-edit if there is something wrong!
– sleske
Jul 17 at 7:45
10
From the store's perspective, you're not an adult, you're a possible minor.
– Nuclear Wang
Jul 17 at 12:42
9
This is weird and happens in Texas too. Parents can buy wine when their 5 year old is in tow, can legally let their kids drink at home with them, can LEGALLY let restaurants serve alcohol to their underage kids when the parent is with them in the restaurant! but if their kids look over 10 they can't sell the parent alcohol at a store unless they leave their kids out in the hot car. Lawmakers are nuts now.
– mark b
Jul 17 at 17:55
12
@VladimirF This question is not about the purchaser's age or ID / lack of ID. It is about the lack of ID of someone accompanying the purchaser. Nothing about that scenario is clearly written on shop signs.
– JBentley
Jul 18 at 2:28
9
9
In the UK if you look under 25 (the legal drinking age is 18) you are required to prove your age and it is clearly written in large signs inside the shops. I was ID'd when aged 35.
– Vladimir F
Jul 17 at 7:41
In the UK if you look under 25 (the legal drinking age is 18) you are required to prove your age and it is clearly written in large signs inside the shops. I was ID'd when aged 35.
– Vladimir F
Jul 17 at 7:41
3
3
Hi, and welcome to law.SE! Your question contained some details that are not relevant (such as why you do not like to carry a wallet). I edited these out to make the question more focussed and suitable for the site. Also, I added a tag to indicate this is in the US, since legal questions depend on jurisdiction. Feel free to re-edit if there is something wrong!
– sleske
Jul 17 at 7:45
Hi, and welcome to law.SE! Your question contained some details that are not relevant (such as why you do not like to carry a wallet). I edited these out to make the question more focussed and suitable for the site. Also, I added a tag to indicate this is in the US, since legal questions depend on jurisdiction. Feel free to re-edit if there is something wrong!
– sleske
Jul 17 at 7:45
10
10
From the store's perspective, you're not an adult, you're a possible minor.
– Nuclear Wang
Jul 17 at 12:42
From the store's perspective, you're not an adult, you're a possible minor.
– Nuclear Wang
Jul 17 at 12:42
9
9
This is weird and happens in Texas too. Parents can buy wine when their 5 year old is in tow, can legally let their kids drink at home with them, can LEGALLY let restaurants serve alcohol to their underage kids when the parent is with them in the restaurant! but if their kids look over 10 they can't sell the parent alcohol at a store unless they leave their kids out in the hot car. Lawmakers are nuts now.
– mark b
Jul 17 at 17:55
This is weird and happens in Texas too. Parents can buy wine when their 5 year old is in tow, can legally let their kids drink at home with them, can LEGALLY let restaurants serve alcohol to their underage kids when the parent is with them in the restaurant! but if their kids look over 10 they can't sell the parent alcohol at a store unless they leave their kids out in the hot car. Lawmakers are nuts now.
– mark b
Jul 17 at 17:55
12
12
@VladimirF This question is not about the purchaser's age or ID / lack of ID. It is about the lack of ID of someone accompanying the purchaser. Nothing about that scenario is clearly written on shop signs.
– JBentley
Jul 18 at 2:28
@VladimirF This question is not about the purchaser's age or ID / lack of ID. It is about the lack of ID of someone accompanying the purchaser. Nothing about that scenario is clearly written on shop signs.
– JBentley
Jul 18 at 2:28
|
show 8 more comments
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
It is legal, at least in the US, for a store (or other entity) to refuse to sell any item to any individual for any non-prohibited reason (prohibited reasons are typically things like race or religion).
More over, in various US jurisdictions, it is prohibited to "furnish" alcohol to a "minor" (for example, under California's ABC law), which can be interpreted as prohibiting to an adult if they reasonably suspect that adult will pass the alcohol onto the "minor". This is to prevent "straw" sales.
Additionally, larger chains generally prefer to have harmonized policies across branches, and where practical, across state lines, so will have policies that can accomodate multiple alcohol control regimes.
answered Jul 16 at 22:33
sharursharur
2,8649 silver badges21 bronze badges
8
See above: Any "non-prohibited" reason. If there is a prohibition against discrimination in sexual orientation (which I believe Washington State had at the time), then it would be illegal to refuse to sell for that reason. The legal rationale that led to the appeals up to the Supreme Court, as I recall, had to do with whether the wedding cake (which apparently are always made-to-order) transaction was a sale(where discrimination would be illegal), or a contract (where it would be legal). But I may be wrong about that last bit.
– sharur
Jul 16 at 23:39
11
It's not just a "can be interpreted". Some jurisdictions specifically include it as a reason to deny sales; others recommend or even require age ID for all persons who look less than a certain age (which is often much higher than the legal minimum); and others still apply these requirements to all persons in a party where any attempt to purchase alcohol (i.e. everybody has to pass together or nobody can).
– Nij
Jul 17 at 4:55
5
@orlp - this may be the case, but aside from whether age is a protected class in non-employment legislation, the product in question is age-controlled, so the store's defence could be that they are attempting to comply with the legislation. This would be especially the case if the law includes something like sharur mentions in the second paragraph.
– Myles
Jul 17 at 12:17
5
@LouisaCarlson you should read the full story of that debacle, it wasn't as clear cut as that one liner.
– the_lotus
Jul 17 at 12:18
9
@zakinster From my own experience working at a liquor store. If you brought true kids into the store we would usually sell to customers still, however, if they came in with college age kids we did refuse them. Usually around graduation times and when we had to worry about police stings. The worry was over teens asking a passing adult to 'be their dad for 5 minutes' for exactly the purpose of getting alcohol underage
– Red Mage
Jul 17 at 12:23
|
show 12 more comments
You go into a store, pick up an item, go to the counter and you think you are legally entitled to own the item provided that you pay for it? Wrong. Wrong for any item, not just alcohol.
Items that are on the shelves in stores are not offers in terms of contract law. They are invitations to treat/bargain. When you take an item to the counter it is you who makes an offer to pay for it. And the store is free to accept or reject your offer.
answered Jul 16 at 22:46
GreendrakeGreendrake
4,7801 gold badge12 silver badges29 bronze badges
9
@LouisaCarlson: Its exactly the same principle (of common law)! However, with a commercial business, it can be a little more complicated, due to the presence of consumer protection and truth-in-advertising laws, which may effectively compel businesses to sell at their posted prices, under threat of prosecution or lawsuit.
– sharur
Jul 16 at 23:31
4
@LouisaCarlson it is kinda like that indeed. But stores, unlike friends, keep doors open to do business. This is why they normally sell stuff taken to the counter without asking questions. But this is not to be taken for granted. Legally, they don't have to. And this is for a good reason (say there's a mistake in price tag "offering" $1000 item for $10).
– Greendrake
Jul 17 at 0:14
24
It may be useful to point out that this answer is only valid in the US (even thought the question is tagged US but may attract other viewers). In Europe and most specifically France it's illegal for a merchant to refuse a sell without a legitimate reason (Consumer Code). Here the burden on proof is reversed, it's up to the merchant to demonstrate a legitimate reason to refuse not up to the consumer to demonstrate a potentially illegal discrimination or breach of contract.
– zakinster
Jul 17 at 9:42
4
@zakinster This answer is valid for all common law jurisdictions (UK/US/Canada/AU/NZ/Singapore etc.). Interesting note re France.
– Greendrake
Jul 17 at 10:18
8
It's not exactly like this in Italy. If a store has something for sale and the listed price is 10€, they are legally obligated to sell it to you for 10€, even if it's an error and it was supposed to be 100. They cannot refuse to sell it to you at that price. This is to prevent fraudolent bait-and-switch type advertising.
– Demonblack
Jul 17 at 15:48
|
show 22 more comments
The answers here are already correct, but wanted to make a quick comment over this
Even when I left the store to wait in the car they made him check out at a different register.
It is of course completely silly that this is required, but from what I was told when I worked at a liquor store this was needed. The idea is by checking out at a different register with a different cashier it passes liability over to the customer if anything bad was happening. The original cashier already knows that Person A came in with Person B who could not be properly ID'd, so even if Person B leaves, OG Cashier is obligated to refuse sales to Person A. Switching over to a new lane meant Person A was now in a 'new' interaction with New Cashier who has no knowledge of Person B and would not be knowingly making 'straw sales' as @sharur mentioned.
Things always got interesting when the adult got annoyed with their 'kid' for wasting more of their time and said they are charging them more. And then they got really confused when we refused any further sales at all....
answered Jul 17 at 12:39
Red MageRed Mage
3173 bronze badges
5
This does not shift liability in any way. If the cashier knows Person A could not produce ID and are aware Person B is still in the store, they are obligated to inform their colleague of the matter and still refuse sale. Liability only disappears if the other cashier had no knowledge of the previous interaction and the previous cashier was unable to inform them. To explicitly tell them to try a different register is a blatant violation of ID protocols.
– animuson♦
Jul 17 at 23:57
1
@animuson If you'd like to get that technical, then it does shift some liability over to OG Cashier as an accomplice to a crime being committed by Person A. The store's liquor license will still be at risk, but depending on prior infractions it may not be revoked immediately and they could discipline (probably fire) the employee and make a case for keeping it.
– Red Mage
Jul 18 at 12:29
In PA I had friends who had to go to the other state store to buy wine when one of them forgot her ID
– Ian Turton
Jul 18 at 17:00
add a comment |
It's not just legal, but often (depending on the state/county) legally required, otherwise they would be considered 'negligent' in helping providing a minor with alcohol, which can get them in jail.
answered Jul 18 at 2:07
AganjuAganju
1113 bronze badges
5
So families in the USA buying groceries with the entire family cannot buy alcohol or tobacco if accompanied by their children?
– gerrit
Jul 18 at 7:35
3
@gerrit Depending on the state, yes that's right. Some states have extremely restrictive regulations regarding alcohol. Remember, this is a country that edited its Constitution to make the production, sale and consumption of alcohol illegal. And then changed it back again...
– Oscar Bravo
Jul 18 at 11:10
@gerrit At least one state went further (Maryland) and decided to just ban grocery stores from selling alcohol at all. Dad or Mom has to go next door to the liquor store.
– pboss3010
Jul 18 at 11:19
1
@pboss3010 I don't agree that banning grocery stores from selling (strong) alcohol (which exists in Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland, among other places) goes further than banning minors from accompanying adults when adults buy alcohol. Unless you're saying that minors are prohibited from even entering those liquor stores, such that a lone parent with a toddler cannot buy alcohol there. Do those liquor stores have to check the ID of everybody who enters and leaves the shop, or only of those who buy anything?
– gerrit
Jul 18 at 11:31
@gerrit If it helps, this craziness wasn't caused by the scenarios here. Overly strict politicians got upset that 21-25 yr olds were buying alcohol that the 16-20 yr olds would hand select at a store and immediately start consuming once the 'adult' had purchased it. So yes, when I saw 4 kids walk in and select a variety of alcohol when I worked at a liquor store I would need to card all 4 of them. Usually 2 of them would leave while the other 2 purchased and then lied saying they had no idea who those others were. We would ask for their IDs anyways and end up refusing the entire sale
– Red Mage
Jul 18 at 12:37
|
show 1 more comment
protected by animuson♦ Jul 18 at 2:27
Thank you for your interest in this question.
Because it has attracted low-quality or spam answers that had to be removed, posting an answer now requires 10 reputation on this site (the association bonus does not count).
Would you like to answer one of these unanswered questions instead?
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
It is legal, at least in the US, for a store (or other entity) to refuse to sell any item to any individual for any non-prohibited reason (prohibited reasons are typically things like race or religion).
More over, in various US jurisdictions, it is prohibited to "furnish" alcohol to a "minor" (for example, under California's ABC law), which can be interpreted as prohibiting to an adult if they reasonably suspect that adult will pass the alcohol onto the "minor". This is to prevent "straw" sales.
Additionally, larger chains generally prefer to have harmonized policies across branches, and where practical, across state lines, so will have policies that can accomodate multiple alcohol control regimes.
answered Jul 16 at 22:33
sharursharur
2,8649 silver badges21 bronze badges
8
See above: Any "non-prohibited" reason. If there is a prohibition against discrimination in sexual orientation (which I believe Washington State had at the time), then it would be illegal to refuse to sell for that reason. The legal rationale that led to the appeals up to the Supreme Court, as I recall, had to do with whether the wedding cake (which apparently are always made-to-order) transaction was a sale(where discrimination would be illegal), or a contract (where it would be legal). But I may be wrong about that last bit.
– sharur
Jul 16 at 23:39
11
It's not just a "can be interpreted". Some jurisdictions specifically include it as a reason to deny sales; others recommend or even require age ID for all persons who look less than a certain age (which is often much higher than the legal minimum); and others still apply these requirements to all persons in a party where any attempt to purchase alcohol (i.e. everybody has to pass together or nobody can).
– Nij
Jul 17 at 4:55
5
@orlp - this may be the case, but aside from whether age is a protected class in non-employment legislation, the product in question is age-controlled, so the store's defence could be that they are attempting to comply with the legislation. This would be especially the case if the law includes something like sharur mentions in the second paragraph.
– Myles
Jul 17 at 12:17
5
@LouisaCarlson you should read the full story of that debacle, it wasn't as clear cut as that one liner.
– the_lotus
Jul 17 at 12:18
9
@zakinster From my own experience working at a liquor store. If you brought true kids into the store we would usually sell to customers still, however, if they came in with college age kids we did refuse them. Usually around graduation times and when we had to worry about police stings. The worry was over teens asking a passing adult to 'be their dad for 5 minutes' for exactly the purpose of getting alcohol underage
– Red Mage
Jul 17 at 12:23
|
show 12 more comments
It is legal, at least in the US, for a store (or other entity) to refuse to sell any item to any individual for any non-prohibited reason (prohibited reasons are typically things like race or religion).
More over, in various US jurisdictions, it is prohibited to "furnish" alcohol to a "minor" (for example, under California's ABC law), which can be interpreted as prohibiting to an adult if they reasonably suspect that adult will pass the alcohol onto the "minor". This is to prevent "straw" sales.
Additionally, larger chains generally prefer to have harmonized policies across branches, and where practical, across state lines, so will have policies that can accomodate multiple alcohol control regimes.
answered Jul 16 at 22:33
sharursharur
2,8649 silver badges21 bronze badges
8
See above: Any "non-prohibited" reason. If there is a prohibition against discrimination in sexual orientation (which I believe Washington State had at the time), then it would be illegal to refuse to sell for that reason. The legal rationale that led to the appeals up to the Supreme Court, as I recall, had to do with whether the wedding cake (which apparently are always made-to-order) transaction was a sale(where discrimination would be illegal), or a contract (where it would be legal). But I may be wrong about that last bit.
– sharur
Jul 16 at 23:39
11
It's not just a "can be interpreted". Some jurisdictions specifically include it as a reason to deny sales; others recommend or even require age ID for all persons who look less than a certain age (which is often much higher than the legal minimum); and others still apply these requirements to all persons in a party where any attempt to purchase alcohol (i.e. everybody has to pass together or nobody can).
– Nij
Jul 17 at 4:55
5
@orlp - this may be the case, but aside from whether age is a protected class in non-employment legislation, the product in question is age-controlled, so the store's defence could be that they are attempting to comply with the legislation. This would be especially the case if the law includes something like sharur mentions in the second paragraph.
– Myles
Jul 17 at 12:17
5
@LouisaCarlson you should read the full story of that debacle, it wasn't as clear cut as that one liner.
– the_lotus
Jul 17 at 12:18
9
@zakinster From my own experience working at a liquor store. If you brought true kids into the store we would usually sell to customers still, however, if they came in with college age kids we did refuse them. Usually around graduation times and when we had to worry about police stings. The worry was over teens asking a passing adult to 'be their dad for 5 minutes' for exactly the purpose of getting alcohol underage
– Red Mage
Jul 17 at 12:23
|
show 12 more comments
It is legal, at least in the US, for a store (or other entity) to refuse to sell any item to any individual for any non-prohibited reason (prohibited reasons are typically things like race or religion).
More over, in various US jurisdictions, it is prohibited to "furnish" alcohol to a "minor" (for example, under California's ABC law), which can be interpreted as prohibiting to an adult if they reasonably suspect that adult will pass the alcohol onto the "minor". This is to prevent "straw" sales.
Additionally, larger chains generally prefer to have harmonized policies across branches, and where practical, across state lines, so will have policies that can accomodate multiple alcohol control regimes.
answered Jul 16 at 22:33
sharursharur
2,8649 silver badges21 bronze badges
It is legal, at least in the US, for a store (or other entity) to refuse to sell any item to any individual for any non-prohibited reason (prohibited reasons are typically things like race or religion).
More over, in various US jurisdictions, it is prohibited to "furnish" alcohol to a "minor" (for example, under California's ABC law), which can be interpreted as prohibiting to an adult if they reasonably suspect that adult will pass the alcohol onto the "minor". This is to prevent "straw" sales.
Additionally, larger chains generally prefer to have harmonized policies across branches, and where practical, across state lines, so will have policies that can accomodate multiple alcohol control regimes.
answered Jul 16 at 22:33
sharursharur
2,8649 silver badges21 bronze badges
edited Jul 17 at 15:46
answered Jul 16 at 22:33
sharursharur
2,8649 silver badges21 bronze badges
answered Jul 16 at 22:33
sharursharur
2,8649 silver badges21 bronze badges
answered Jul 16 at 22:33
sharursharur
2,8649 silver badges21 bronze badges
2,8649 silver badges21 bronze badges
8
See above: Any "non-prohibited" reason. If there is a prohibition against discrimination in sexual orientation (which I believe Washington State had at the time), then it would be illegal to refuse to sell for that reason. The legal rationale that led to the appeals up to the Supreme Court, as I recall, had to do with whether the wedding cake (which apparently are always made-to-order) transaction was a sale(where discrimination would be illegal), or a contract (where it would be legal). But I may be wrong about that last bit.
– sharur
Jul 16 at 23:39
11
It's not just a "can be interpreted". Some jurisdictions specifically include it as a reason to deny sales; others recommend or even require age ID for all persons who look less than a certain age (which is often much higher than the legal minimum); and others still apply these requirements to all persons in a party where any attempt to purchase alcohol (i.e. everybody has to pass together or nobody can).
– Nij
Jul 17 at 4:55
5
@orlp - this may be the case, but aside from whether age is a protected class in non-employment legislation, the product in question is age-controlled, so the store's defence could be that they are attempting to comply with the legislation. This would be especially the case if the law includes something like sharur mentions in the second paragraph.
– Myles
Jul 17 at 12:17
5
@LouisaCarlson you should read the full story of that debacle, it wasn't as clear cut as that one liner.
– the_lotus
Jul 17 at 12:18
9
@zakinster From my own experience working at a liquor store. If you brought true kids into the store we would usually sell to customers still, however, if they came in with college age kids we did refuse them. Usually around graduation times and when we had to worry about police stings. The worry was over teens asking a passing adult to 'be their dad for 5 minutes' for exactly the purpose of getting alcohol underage
– Red Mage
Jul 17 at 12:23
|
show 12 more comments
8
See above: Any "non-prohibited" reason. If there is a prohibition against discrimination in sexual orientation (which I believe Washington State had at the time), then it would be illegal to refuse to sell for that reason. The legal rationale that led to the appeals up to the Supreme Court, as I recall, had to do with whether the wedding cake (which apparently are always made-to-order) transaction was a sale(where discrimination would be illegal), or a contract (where it would be legal). But I may be wrong about that last bit.
– sharur
Jul 16 at 23:39
11
It's not just a "can be interpreted". Some jurisdictions specifically include it as a reason to deny sales; others recommend or even require age ID for all persons who look less than a certain age (which is often much higher than the legal minimum); and others still apply these requirements to all persons in a party where any attempt to purchase alcohol (i.e. everybody has to pass together or nobody can).
– Nij
Jul 17 at 4:55
5
@orlp - this may be the case, but aside from whether age is a protected class in non-employment legislation, the product in question is age-controlled, so the store's defence could be that they are attempting to comply with the legislation. This would be especially the case if the law includes something like sharur mentions in the second paragraph.
– Myles
Jul 17 at 12:17
5
@LouisaCarlson you should read the full story of that debacle, it wasn't as clear cut as that one liner.
– the_lotus
Jul 17 at 12:18
9
@zakinster From my own experience working at a liquor store. If you brought true kids into the store we would usually sell to customers still, however, if they came in with college age kids we did refuse them. Usually around graduation times and when we had to worry about police stings. The worry was over teens asking a passing adult to 'be their dad for 5 minutes' for exactly the purpose of getting alcohol underage
– Red Mage
Jul 17 at 12:23
8
8
See above: Any "non-prohibited" reason. If there is a prohibition against discrimination in sexual orientation (which I believe Washington State had at the time), then it would be illegal to refuse to sell for that reason. The legal rationale that led to the appeals up to the Supreme Court, as I recall, had to do with whether the wedding cake (which apparently are always made-to-order) transaction was a sale(where discrimination would be illegal), or a contract (where it would be legal). But I may be wrong about that last bit.
– sharur
Jul 16 at 23:39
See above: Any "non-prohibited" reason. If there is a prohibition against discrimination in sexual orientation (which I believe Washington State had at the time), then it would be illegal to refuse to sell for that reason. The legal rationale that led to the appeals up to the Supreme Court, as I recall, had to do with whether the wedding cake (which apparently are always made-to-order) transaction was a sale(where discrimination would be illegal), or a contract (where it would be legal). But I may be wrong about that last bit.
– sharur
Jul 16 at 23:39
11
11
It's not just a "can be interpreted". Some jurisdictions specifically include it as a reason to deny sales; others recommend or even require age ID for all persons who look less than a certain age (which is often much higher than the legal minimum); and others still apply these requirements to all persons in a party where any attempt to purchase alcohol (i.e. everybody has to pass together or nobody can).
– Nij
Jul 17 at 4:55
It's not just a "can be interpreted". Some jurisdictions specifically include it as a reason to deny sales; others recommend or even require age ID for all persons who look less than a certain age (which is often much higher than the legal minimum); and others still apply these requirements to all persons in a party where any attempt to purchase alcohol (i.e. everybody has to pass together or nobody can).
– Nij
Jul 17 at 4:55
5
5
@orlp - this may be the case, but aside from whether age is a protected class in non-employment legislation, the product in question is age-controlled, so the store's defence could be that they are attempting to comply with the legislation. This would be especially the case if the law includes something like sharur mentions in the second paragraph.
– Myles
Jul 17 at 12:17
@orlp - this may be the case, but aside from whether age is a protected class in non-employment legislation, the product in question is age-controlled, so the store's defence could be that they are attempting to comply with the legislation. This would be especially the case if the law includes something like sharur mentions in the second paragraph.
– Myles
Jul 17 at 12:17
5
5
@LouisaCarlson you should read the full story of that debacle, it wasn't as clear cut as that one liner.
– the_lotus
Jul 17 at 12:18
@LouisaCarlson you should read the full story of that debacle, it wasn't as clear cut as that one liner.
– the_lotus
Jul 17 at 12:18
9
9
@zakinster From my own experience working at a liquor store. If you brought true kids into the store we would usually sell to customers still, however, if they came in with college age kids we did refuse them. Usually around graduation times and when we had to worry about police stings. The worry was over teens asking a passing adult to 'be their dad for 5 minutes' for exactly the purpose of getting alcohol underage
– Red Mage
Jul 17 at 12:23
@zakinster From my own experience working at a liquor store. If you brought true kids into the store we would usually sell to customers still, however, if they came in with college age kids we did refuse them. Usually around graduation times and when we had to worry about police stings. The worry was over teens asking a passing adult to 'be their dad for 5 minutes' for exactly the purpose of getting alcohol underage
– Red Mage
Jul 17 at 12:23
|
show 12 more comments
You go into a store, pick up an item, go to the counter and you think you are legally entitled to own the item provided that you pay for it? Wrong. Wrong for any item, not just alcohol.
Items that are on the shelves in stores are not offers in terms of contract law. They are invitations to treat/bargain. When you take an item to the counter it is you who makes an offer to pay for it. And the store is free to accept or reject your offer.
answered Jul 16 at 22:46
GreendrakeGreendrake
4,7801 gold badge12 silver badges29 bronze badges
9
@LouisaCarlson: Its exactly the same principle (of common law)! However, with a commercial business, it can be a little more complicated, due to the presence of consumer protection and truth-in-advertising laws, which may effectively compel businesses to sell at their posted prices, under threat of prosecution or lawsuit.
– sharur
Jul 16 at 23:31
4
@LouisaCarlson it is kinda like that indeed. But stores, unlike friends, keep doors open to do business. This is why they normally sell stuff taken to the counter without asking questions. But this is not to be taken for granted. Legally, they don't have to. And this is for a good reason (say there's a mistake in price tag "offering" $1000 item for $10).
– Greendrake
Jul 17 at 0:14
24
It may be useful to point out that this answer is only valid in the US (even thought the question is tagged US but may attract other viewers). In Europe and most specifically France it's illegal for a merchant to refuse a sell without a legitimate reason (Consumer Code). Here the burden on proof is reversed, it's up to the merchant to demonstrate a legitimate reason to refuse not up to the consumer to demonstrate a potentially illegal discrimination or breach of contract.
– zakinster
Jul 17 at 9:42
4
@zakinster This answer is valid for all common law jurisdictions (UK/US/Canada/AU/NZ/Singapore etc.). Interesting note re France.
– Greendrake
Jul 17 at 10:18
8
It's not exactly like this in Italy. If a store has something for sale and the listed price is 10€, they are legally obligated to sell it to you for 10€, even if it's an error and it was supposed to be 100. They cannot refuse to sell it to you at that price. This is to prevent fraudolent bait-and-switch type advertising.
– Demonblack
Jul 17 at 15:48
|
show 22 more comments
You go into a store, pick up an item, go to the counter and you think you are legally entitled to own the item provided that you pay for it? Wrong. Wrong for any item, not just alcohol.
Items that are on the shelves in stores are not offers in terms of contract law. They are invitations to treat/bargain. When you take an item to the counter it is you who makes an offer to pay for it. And the store is free to accept or reject your offer.
answered Jul 16 at 22:46
GreendrakeGreendrake
4,7801 gold badge12 silver badges29 bronze badges
9
@LouisaCarlson: Its exactly the same principle (of common law)! However, with a commercial business, it can be a little more complicated, due to the presence of consumer protection and truth-in-advertising laws, which may effectively compel businesses to sell at their posted prices, under threat of prosecution or lawsuit.
– sharur
Jul 16 at 23:31
4
@LouisaCarlson it is kinda like that indeed. But stores, unlike friends, keep doors open to do business. This is why they normally sell stuff taken to the counter without asking questions. But this is not to be taken for granted. Legally, they don't have to. And this is for a good reason (say there's a mistake in price tag "offering" $1000 item for $10).
– Greendrake
Jul 17 at 0:14
24
It may be useful to point out that this answer is only valid in the US (even thought the question is tagged US but may attract other viewers). In Europe and most specifically France it's illegal for a merchant to refuse a sell without a legitimate reason (Consumer Code). Here the burden on proof is reversed, it's up to the merchant to demonstrate a legitimate reason to refuse not up to the consumer to demonstrate a potentially illegal discrimination or breach of contract.
– zakinster
Jul 17 at 9:42
4
@zakinster This answer is valid for all common law jurisdictions (UK/US/Canada/AU/NZ/Singapore etc.). Interesting note re France.
– Greendrake
Jul 17 at 10:18
8
It's not exactly like this in Italy. If a store has something for sale and the listed price is 10€, they are legally obligated to sell it to you for 10€, even if it's an error and it was supposed to be 100. They cannot refuse to sell it to you at that price. This is to prevent fraudolent bait-and-switch type advertising.
– Demonblack
Jul 17 at 15:48
|
show 22 more comments
You go into a store, pick up an item, go to the counter and you think you are legally entitled to own the item provided that you pay for it? Wrong. Wrong for any item, not just alcohol.
Items that are on the shelves in stores are not offers in terms of contract law. They are invitations to treat/bargain. When you take an item to the counter it is you who makes an offer to pay for it. And the store is free to accept or reject your offer.
answered Jul 16 at 22:46
GreendrakeGreendrake
4,7801 gold badge12 silver badges29 bronze badges
You go into a store, pick up an item, go to the counter and you think you are legally entitled to own the item provided that you pay for it? Wrong. Wrong for any item, not just alcohol.
Items that are on the shelves in stores are not offers in terms of contract law. They are invitations to treat/bargain. When you take an item to the counter it is you who makes an offer to pay for it. And the store is free to accept or reject your offer.
answered Jul 16 at 22:46
GreendrakeGreendrake
4,7801 gold badge12 silver badges29 bronze badges
answered Jul 16 at 22:46
GreendrakeGreendrake
4,7801 gold badge12 silver badges29 bronze badges
answered Jul 16 at 22:46
GreendrakeGreendrake
4,7801 gold badge12 silver badges29 bronze badges
answered Jul 16 at 22:46
GreendrakeGreendrake
4,7801 gold badge12 silver badges29 bronze badges
4,7801 gold badge12 silver badges29 bronze badges
9
@LouisaCarlson: Its exactly the same principle (of common law)! However, with a commercial business, it can be a little more complicated, due to the presence of consumer protection and truth-in-advertising laws, which may effectively compel businesses to sell at their posted prices, under threat of prosecution or lawsuit.
– sharur
Jul 16 at 23:31
4
@LouisaCarlson it is kinda like that indeed. But stores, unlike friends, keep doors open to do business. This is why they normally sell stuff taken to the counter without asking questions. But this is not to be taken for granted. Legally, they don't have to. And this is for a good reason (say there's a mistake in price tag "offering" $1000 item for $10).
– Greendrake
Jul 17 at 0:14
24
It may be useful to point out that this answer is only valid in the US (even thought the question is tagged US but may attract other viewers). In Europe and most specifically France it's illegal for a merchant to refuse a sell without a legitimate reason (Consumer Code). Here the burden on proof is reversed, it's up to the merchant to demonstrate a legitimate reason to refuse not up to the consumer to demonstrate a potentially illegal discrimination or breach of contract.
– zakinster
Jul 17 at 9:42
4
@zakinster This answer is valid for all common law jurisdictions (UK/US/Canada/AU/NZ/Singapore etc.). Interesting note re France.
– Greendrake
Jul 17 at 10:18
8
It's not exactly like this in Italy. If a store has something for sale and the listed price is 10€, they are legally obligated to sell it to you for 10€, even if it's an error and it was supposed to be 100. They cannot refuse to sell it to you at that price. This is to prevent fraudolent bait-and-switch type advertising.
– Demonblack
Jul 17 at 15:48
|
show 22 more comments
9
@LouisaCarlson: Its exactly the same principle (of common law)! However, with a commercial business, it can be a little more complicated, due to the presence of consumer protection and truth-in-advertising laws, which may effectively compel businesses to sell at their posted prices, under threat of prosecution or lawsuit.
– sharur
Jul 16 at 23:31
4
@LouisaCarlson it is kinda like that indeed. But stores, unlike friends, keep doors open to do business. This is why they normally sell stuff taken to the counter without asking questions. But this is not to be taken for granted. Legally, they don't have to. And this is for a good reason (say there's a mistake in price tag "offering" $1000 item for $10).
– Greendrake
Jul 17 at 0:14
24
It may be useful to point out that this answer is only valid in the US (even thought the question is tagged US but may attract other viewers). In Europe and most specifically France it's illegal for a merchant to refuse a sell without a legitimate reason (Consumer Code). Here the burden on proof is reversed, it's up to the merchant to demonstrate a legitimate reason to refuse not up to the consumer to demonstrate a potentially illegal discrimination or breach of contract.
– zakinster
Jul 17 at 9:42
4
@zakinster This answer is valid for all common law jurisdictions (UK/US/Canada/AU/NZ/Singapore etc.). Interesting note re France.
– Greendrake
Jul 17 at 10:18
8
It's not exactly like this in Italy. If a store has something for sale and the listed price is 10€, they are legally obligated to sell it to you for 10€, even if it's an error and it was supposed to be 100. They cannot refuse to sell it to you at that price. This is to prevent fraudolent bait-and-switch type advertising.
– Demonblack
Jul 17 at 15:48
9
9
@LouisaCarlson: Its exactly the same principle (of common law)! However, with a commercial business, it can be a little more complicated, due to the presence of consumer protection and truth-in-advertising laws, which may effectively compel businesses to sell at their posted prices, under threat of prosecution or lawsuit.
– sharur
Jul 16 at 23:31
@LouisaCarlson: Its exactly the same principle (of common law)! However, with a commercial business, it can be a little more complicated, due to the presence of consumer protection and truth-in-advertising laws, which may effectively compel businesses to sell at their posted prices, under threat of prosecution or lawsuit.
– sharur
Jul 16 at 23:31
4
4
@LouisaCarlson it is kinda like that indeed. But stores, unlike friends, keep doors open to do business. This is why they normally sell stuff taken to the counter without asking questions. But this is not to be taken for granted. Legally, they don't have to. And this is for a good reason (say there's a mistake in price tag "offering" $1000 item for $10).
– Greendrake
Jul 17 at 0:14
@LouisaCarlson it is kinda like that indeed. But stores, unlike friends, keep doors open to do business. This is why they normally sell stuff taken to the counter without asking questions. But this is not to be taken for granted. Legally, they don't have to. And this is for a good reason (say there's a mistake in price tag "offering" $1000 item for $10).
– Greendrake
Jul 17 at 0:14
24
24
It may be useful to point out that this answer is only valid in the US (even thought the question is tagged US but may attract other viewers). In Europe and most specifically France it's illegal for a merchant to refuse a sell without a legitimate reason (Consumer Code). Here the burden on proof is reversed, it's up to the merchant to demonstrate a legitimate reason to refuse not up to the consumer to demonstrate a potentially illegal discrimination or breach of contract.
– zakinster
Jul 17 at 9:42
It may be useful to point out that this answer is only valid in the US (even thought the question is tagged US but may attract other viewers). In Europe and most specifically France it's illegal for a merchant to refuse a sell without a legitimate reason (Consumer Code). Here the burden on proof is reversed, it's up to the merchant to demonstrate a legitimate reason to refuse not up to the consumer to demonstrate a potentially illegal discrimination or breach of contract.
– zakinster
Jul 17 at 9:42
4
4
@zakinster This answer is valid for all common law jurisdictions (UK/US/Canada/AU/NZ/Singapore etc.). Interesting note re France.
– Greendrake
Jul 17 at 10:18
@zakinster This answer is valid for all common law jurisdictions (UK/US/Canada/AU/NZ/Singapore etc.). Interesting note re France.
– Greendrake
Jul 17 at 10:18
8
8
It's not exactly like this in Italy. If a store has something for sale and the listed price is 10€, they are legally obligated to sell it to you for 10€, even if it's an error and it was supposed to be 100. They cannot refuse to sell it to you at that price. This is to prevent fraudolent bait-and-switch type advertising.
– Demonblack
Jul 17 at 15:48
It's not exactly like this in Italy. If a store has something for sale and the listed price is 10€, they are legally obligated to sell it to you for 10€, even if it's an error and it was supposed to be 100. They cannot refuse to sell it to you at that price. This is to prevent fraudolent bait-and-switch type advertising.
– Demonblack
Jul 17 at 15:48
|
show 22 more comments
The answers here are already correct, but wanted to make a quick comment over this
Even when I left the store to wait in the car they made him check out at a different register.
It is of course completely silly that this is required, but from what I was told when I worked at a liquor store this was needed. The idea is by checking out at a different register with a different cashier it passes liability over to the customer if anything bad was happening. The original cashier already knows that Person A came in with Person B who could not be properly ID'd, so even if Person B leaves, OG Cashier is obligated to refuse sales to Person A. Switching over to a new lane meant Person A was now in a 'new' interaction with New Cashier who has no knowledge of Person B and would not be knowingly making 'straw sales' as @sharur mentioned.
Things always got interesting when the adult got annoyed with their 'kid' for wasting more of their time and said they are charging them more. And then they got really confused when we refused any further sales at all....
answered Jul 17 at 12:39
Red MageRed Mage
3173 bronze badges
5
This does not shift liability in any way. If the cashier knows Person A could not produce ID and are aware Person B is still in the store, they are obligated to inform their colleague of the matter and still refuse sale. Liability only disappears if the other cashier had no knowledge of the previous interaction and the previous cashier was unable to inform them. To explicitly tell them to try a different register is a blatant violation of ID protocols.
– animuson♦
Jul 17 at 23:57
1
@animuson If you'd like to get that technical, then it does shift some liability over to OG Cashier as an accomplice to a crime being committed by Person A. The store's liquor license will still be at risk, but depending on prior infractions it may not be revoked immediately and they could discipline (probably fire) the employee and make a case for keeping it.
– Red Mage
Jul 18 at 12:29
In PA I had friends who had to go to the other state store to buy wine when one of them forgot her ID
– Ian Turton
Jul 18 at 17:00
add a comment |
The answers here are already correct, but wanted to make a quick comment over this
Even when I left the store to wait in the car they made him check out at a different register.
It is of course completely silly that this is required, but from what I was told when I worked at a liquor store this was needed. The idea is by checking out at a different register with a different cashier it passes liability over to the customer if anything bad was happening. The original cashier already knows that Person A came in with Person B who could not be properly ID'd, so even if Person B leaves, OG Cashier is obligated to refuse sales to Person A. Switching over to a new lane meant Person A was now in a 'new' interaction with New Cashier who has no knowledge of Person B and would not be knowingly making 'straw sales' as @sharur mentioned.
Things always got interesting when the adult got annoyed with their 'kid' for wasting more of their time and said they are charging them more. And then they got really confused when we refused any further sales at all....
answered Jul 17 at 12:39
Red MageRed Mage
3173 bronze badges
5
This does not shift liability in any way. If the cashier knows Person A could not produce ID and are aware Person B is still in the store, they are obligated to inform their colleague of the matter and still refuse sale. Liability only disappears if the other cashier had no knowledge of the previous interaction and the previous cashier was unable to inform them. To explicitly tell them to try a different register is a blatant violation of ID protocols.
– animuson♦
Jul 17 at 23:57
1
@animuson If you'd like to get that technical, then it does shift some liability over to OG Cashier as an accomplice to a crime being committed by Person A. The store's liquor license will still be at risk, but depending on prior infractions it may not be revoked immediately and they could discipline (probably fire) the employee and make a case for keeping it.
– Red Mage
Jul 18 at 12:29
In PA I had friends who had to go to the other state store to buy wine when one of them forgot her ID
– Ian Turton
Jul 18 at 17:00
add a comment |
The answers here are already correct, but wanted to make a quick comment over this
Even when I left the store to wait in the car they made him check out at a different register.
It is of course completely silly that this is required, but from what I was told when I worked at a liquor store this was needed. The idea is by checking out at a different register with a different cashier it passes liability over to the customer if anything bad was happening. The original cashier already knows that Person A came in with Person B who could not be properly ID'd, so even if Person B leaves, OG Cashier is obligated to refuse sales to Person A. Switching over to a new lane meant Person A was now in a 'new' interaction with New Cashier who has no knowledge of Person B and would not be knowingly making 'straw sales' as @sharur mentioned.
Things always got interesting when the adult got annoyed with their 'kid' for wasting more of their time and said they are charging them more. And then they got really confused when we refused any further sales at all....
answered Jul 17 at 12:39
Red MageRed Mage
3173 bronze badges
The answers here are already correct, but wanted to make a quick comment over this
Even when I left the store to wait in the car they made him check out at a different register.
It is of course completely silly that this is required, but from what I was told when I worked at a liquor store this was needed. The idea is by checking out at a different register with a different cashier it passes liability over to the customer if anything bad was happening. The original cashier already knows that Person A came in with Person B who could not be properly ID'd, so even if Person B leaves, OG Cashier is obligated to refuse sales to Person A. Switching over to a new lane meant Person A was now in a 'new' interaction with New Cashier who has no knowledge of Person B and would not be knowingly making 'straw sales' as @sharur mentioned.
Things always got interesting when the adult got annoyed with their 'kid' for wasting more of their time and said they are charging them more. And then they got really confused when we refused any further sales at all....
answered Jul 17 at 12:39
Red MageRed Mage
3173 bronze badges
answered Jul 17 at 12:39
Red MageRed Mage
3173 bronze badges
answered Jul 17 at 12:39
Red MageRed Mage
3173 bronze badges
answered Jul 17 at 12:39
Red MageRed Mage
3173 bronze badges
3173 bronze badges
5
This does not shift liability in any way. If the cashier knows Person A could not produce ID and are aware Person B is still in the store, they are obligated to inform their colleague of the matter and still refuse sale. Liability only disappears if the other cashier had no knowledge of the previous interaction and the previous cashier was unable to inform them. To explicitly tell them to try a different register is a blatant violation of ID protocols.
– animuson♦
Jul 17 at 23:57
1
@animuson If you'd like to get that technical, then it does shift some liability over to OG Cashier as an accomplice to a crime being committed by Person A. The store's liquor license will still be at risk, but depending on prior infractions it may not be revoked immediately and they could discipline (probably fire) the employee and make a case for keeping it.
– Red Mage
Jul 18 at 12:29
In PA I had friends who had to go to the other state store to buy wine when one of them forgot her ID
– Ian Turton
Jul 18 at 17:00
add a comment |
5
This does not shift liability in any way. If the cashier knows Person A could not produce ID and are aware Person B is still in the store, they are obligated to inform their colleague of the matter and still refuse sale. Liability only disappears if the other cashier had no knowledge of the previous interaction and the previous cashier was unable to inform them. To explicitly tell them to try a different register is a blatant violation of ID protocols.
– animuson♦
Jul 17 at 23:57
1
@animuson If you'd like to get that technical, then it does shift some liability over to OG Cashier as an accomplice to a crime being committed by Person A. The store's liquor license will still be at risk, but depending on prior infractions it may not be revoked immediately and they could discipline (probably fire) the employee and make a case for keeping it.
– Red Mage
Jul 18 at 12:29
In PA I had friends who had to go to the other state store to buy wine when one of them forgot her ID
– Ian Turton
Jul 18 at 17:00
5
5
This does not shift liability in any way. If the cashier knows Person A could not produce ID and are aware Person B is still in the store, they are obligated to inform their colleague of the matter and still refuse sale. Liability only disappears if the other cashier had no knowledge of the previous interaction and the previous cashier was unable to inform them. To explicitly tell them to try a different register is a blatant violation of ID protocols.
– animuson♦
Jul 17 at 23:57
This does not shift liability in any way. If the cashier knows Person A could not produce ID and are aware Person B is still in the store, they are obligated to inform their colleague of the matter and still refuse sale. Liability only disappears if the other cashier had no knowledge of the previous interaction and the previous cashier was unable to inform them. To explicitly tell them to try a different register is a blatant violation of ID protocols.
– animuson♦
Jul 17 at 23:57
1
1
@animuson If you'd like to get that technical, then it does shift some liability over to OG Cashier as an accomplice to a crime being committed by Person A. The store's liquor license will still be at risk, but depending on prior infractions it may not be revoked immediately and they could discipline (probably fire) the employee and make a case for keeping it.
– Red Mage
Jul 18 at 12:29
@animuson If you'd like to get that technical, then it does shift some liability over to OG Cashier as an accomplice to a crime being committed by Person A. The store's liquor license will still be at risk, but depending on prior infractions it may not be revoked immediately and they could discipline (probably fire) the employee and make a case for keeping it.
– Red Mage
Jul 18 at 12:29
In PA I had friends who had to go to the other state store to buy wine when one of them forgot her ID
– Ian Turton
Jul 18 at 17:00
In PA I had friends who had to go to the other state store to buy wine when one of them forgot her ID
– Ian Turton
Jul 18 at 17:00
add a comment |
It's not just legal, but often (depending on the state/county) legally required, otherwise they would be considered 'negligent' in helping providing a minor with alcohol, which can get them in jail.
answered Jul 18 at 2:07
AganjuAganju
1113 bronze badges
5
So families in the USA buying groceries with the entire family cannot buy alcohol or tobacco if accompanied by their children?
– gerrit
Jul 18 at 7:35
3
@gerrit Depending on the state, yes that's right. Some states have extremely restrictive regulations regarding alcohol. Remember, this is a country that edited its Constitution to make the production, sale and consumption of alcohol illegal. And then changed it back again...
– Oscar Bravo
Jul 18 at 11:10
@gerrit At least one state went further (Maryland) and decided to just ban grocery stores from selling alcohol at all. Dad or Mom has to go next door to the liquor store.
– pboss3010
Jul 18 at 11:19
1
@pboss3010 I don't agree that banning grocery stores from selling (strong) alcohol (which exists in Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland, among other places) goes further than banning minors from accompanying adults when adults buy alcohol. Unless you're saying that minors are prohibited from even entering those liquor stores, such that a lone parent with a toddler cannot buy alcohol there. Do those liquor stores have to check the ID of everybody who enters and leaves the shop, or only of those who buy anything?
– gerrit
Jul 18 at 11:31
@gerrit If it helps, this craziness wasn't caused by the scenarios here. Overly strict politicians got upset that 21-25 yr olds were buying alcohol that the 16-20 yr olds would hand select at a store and immediately start consuming once the 'adult' had purchased it. So yes, when I saw 4 kids walk in and select a variety of alcohol when I worked at a liquor store I would need to card all 4 of them. Usually 2 of them would leave while the other 2 purchased and then lied saying they had no idea who those others were. We would ask for their IDs anyways and end up refusing the entire sale
– Red Mage
Jul 18 at 12:37
|
show 1 more comment
It's not just legal, but often (depending on the state/county) legally required, otherwise they would be considered 'negligent' in helping providing a minor with alcohol, which can get them in jail.
answered Jul 18 at 2:07
AganjuAganju
1113 bronze badges
5
So families in the USA buying groceries with the entire family cannot buy alcohol or tobacco if accompanied by their children?
– gerrit
Jul 18 at 7:35
3
@gerrit Depending on the state, yes that's right. Some states have extremely restrictive regulations regarding alcohol. Remember, this is a country that edited its Constitution to make the production, sale and consumption of alcohol illegal. And then changed it back again...
– Oscar Bravo
Jul 18 at 11:10
@gerrit At least one state went further (Maryland) and decided to just ban grocery stores from selling alcohol at all. Dad or Mom has to go next door to the liquor store.
– pboss3010
Jul 18 at 11:19
1
@pboss3010 I don't agree that banning grocery stores from selling (strong) alcohol (which exists in Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland, among other places) goes further than banning minors from accompanying adults when adults buy alcohol. Unless you're saying that minors are prohibited from even entering those liquor stores, such that a lone parent with a toddler cannot buy alcohol there. Do those liquor stores have to check the ID of everybody who enters and leaves the shop, or only of those who buy anything?
– gerrit
Jul 18 at 11:31
@gerrit If it helps, this craziness wasn't caused by the scenarios here. Overly strict politicians got upset that 21-25 yr olds were buying alcohol that the 16-20 yr olds would hand select at a store and immediately start consuming once the 'adult' had purchased it. So yes, when I saw 4 kids walk in and select a variety of alcohol when I worked at a liquor store I would need to card all 4 of them. Usually 2 of them would leave while the other 2 purchased and then lied saying they had no idea who those others were. We would ask for their IDs anyways and end up refusing the entire sale
– Red Mage
Jul 18 at 12:37
|
show 1 more comment
It's not just legal, but often (depending on the state/county) legally required, otherwise they would be considered 'negligent' in helping providing a minor with alcohol, which can get them in jail.
answered Jul 18 at 2:07
AganjuAganju
1113 bronze badges
It's not just legal, but often (depending on the state/county) legally required, otherwise they would be considered 'negligent' in helping providing a minor with alcohol, which can get them in jail.
answered Jul 18 at 2:07
AganjuAganju
1113 bronze badges
answered Jul 18 at 2:07
AganjuAganju
1113 bronze badges
answered Jul 18 at 2:07
AganjuAganju
1113 bronze badges
answered Jul 18 at 2:07
AganjuAganju
1113 bronze badges
1113 bronze badges
5
So families in the USA buying groceries with the entire family cannot buy alcohol or tobacco if accompanied by their children?
– gerrit
Jul 18 at 7:35
3
@gerrit Depending on the state, yes that's right. Some states have extremely restrictive regulations regarding alcohol. Remember, this is a country that edited its Constitution to make the production, sale and consumption of alcohol illegal. And then changed it back again...
– Oscar Bravo
Jul 18 at 11:10
@gerrit At least one state went further (Maryland) and decided to just ban grocery stores from selling alcohol at all. Dad or Mom has to go next door to the liquor store.
– pboss3010
Jul 18 at 11:19
1
@pboss3010 I don't agree that banning grocery stores from selling (strong) alcohol (which exists in Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland, among other places) goes further than banning minors from accompanying adults when adults buy alcohol. Unless you're saying that minors are prohibited from even entering those liquor stores, such that a lone parent with a toddler cannot buy alcohol there. Do those liquor stores have to check the ID of everybody who enters and leaves the shop, or only of those who buy anything?
– gerrit
Jul 18 at 11:31
@gerrit If it helps, this craziness wasn't caused by the scenarios here. Overly strict politicians got upset that 21-25 yr olds were buying alcohol that the 16-20 yr olds would hand select at a store and immediately start consuming once the 'adult' had purchased it. So yes, when I saw 4 kids walk in and select a variety of alcohol when I worked at a liquor store I would need to card all 4 of them. Usually 2 of them would leave while the other 2 purchased and then lied saying they had no idea who those others were. We would ask for their IDs anyways and end up refusing the entire sale
– Red Mage
Jul 18 at 12:37
|
show 1 more comment
5
So families in the USA buying groceries with the entire family cannot buy alcohol or tobacco if accompanied by their children?
– gerrit
Jul 18 at 7:35
3
@gerrit Depending on the state, yes that's right. Some states have extremely restrictive regulations regarding alcohol. Remember, this is a country that edited its Constitution to make the production, sale and consumption of alcohol illegal. And then changed it back again...
– Oscar Bravo
Jul 18 at 11:10
@gerrit At least one state went further (Maryland) and decided to just ban grocery stores from selling alcohol at all. Dad or Mom has to go next door to the liquor store.
– pboss3010
Jul 18 at 11:19
1
@pboss3010 I don't agree that banning grocery stores from selling (strong) alcohol (which exists in Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland, among other places) goes further than banning minors from accompanying adults when adults buy alcohol. Unless you're saying that minors are prohibited from even entering those liquor stores, such that a lone parent with a toddler cannot buy alcohol there. Do those liquor stores have to check the ID of everybody who enters and leaves the shop, or only of those who buy anything?
– gerrit
Jul 18 at 11:31
@gerrit If it helps, this craziness wasn't caused by the scenarios here. Overly strict politicians got upset that 21-25 yr olds were buying alcohol that the 16-20 yr olds would hand select at a store and immediately start consuming once the 'adult' had purchased it. So yes, when I saw 4 kids walk in and select a variety of alcohol when I worked at a liquor store I would need to card all 4 of them. Usually 2 of them would leave while the other 2 purchased and then lied saying they had no idea who those others were. We would ask for their IDs anyways and end up refusing the entire sale
– Red Mage
Jul 18 at 12:37
5
5
So families in the USA buying groceries with the entire family cannot buy alcohol or tobacco if accompanied by their children?
– gerrit
Jul 18 at 7:35
So families in the USA buying groceries with the entire family cannot buy alcohol or tobacco if accompanied by their children?
– gerrit
Jul 18 at 7:35
3
3
@gerrit Depending on the state, yes that's right. Some states have extremely restrictive regulations regarding alcohol. Remember, this is a country that edited its Constitution to make the production, sale and consumption of alcohol illegal. And then changed it back again...
– Oscar Bravo
Jul 18 at 11:10
@gerrit Depending on the state, yes that's right. Some states have extremely restrictive regulations regarding alcohol. Remember, this is a country that edited its Constitution to make the production, sale and consumption of alcohol illegal. And then changed it back again...
– Oscar Bravo
Jul 18 at 11:10
@gerrit At least one state went further (Maryland) and decided to just ban grocery stores from selling alcohol at all. Dad or Mom has to go next door to the liquor store.
– pboss3010
Jul 18 at 11:19
@gerrit At least one state went further (Maryland) and decided to just ban grocery stores from selling alcohol at all. Dad or Mom has to go next door to the liquor store.
– pboss3010
Jul 18 at 11:19
1
1
@pboss3010 I don't agree that banning grocery stores from selling (strong) alcohol (which exists in Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland, among other places) goes further than banning minors from accompanying adults when adults buy alcohol. Unless you're saying that minors are prohibited from even entering those liquor stores, such that a lone parent with a toddler cannot buy alcohol there. Do those liquor stores have to check the ID of everybody who enters and leaves the shop, or only of those who buy anything?
– gerrit
Jul 18 at 11:31
@pboss3010 I don't agree that banning grocery stores from selling (strong) alcohol (which exists in Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland, among other places) goes further than banning minors from accompanying adults when adults buy alcohol. Unless you're saying that minors are prohibited from even entering those liquor stores, such that a lone parent with a toddler cannot buy alcohol there. Do those liquor stores have to check the ID of everybody who enters and leaves the shop, or only of those who buy anything?
– gerrit
Jul 18 at 11:31
@gerrit If it helps, this craziness wasn't caused by the scenarios here. Overly strict politicians got upset that 21-25 yr olds were buying alcohol that the 16-20 yr olds would hand select at a store and immediately start consuming once the 'adult' had purchased it. So yes, when I saw 4 kids walk in and select a variety of alcohol when I worked at a liquor store I would need to card all 4 of them. Usually 2 of them would leave while the other 2 purchased and then lied saying they had no idea who those others were. We would ask for their IDs anyways and end up refusing the entire sale
– Red Mage
Jul 18 at 12:37
@gerrit If it helps, this craziness wasn't caused by the scenarios here. Overly strict politicians got upset that 21-25 yr olds were buying alcohol that the 16-20 yr olds would hand select at a store and immediately start consuming once the 'adult' had purchased it. So yes, when I saw 4 kids walk in and select a variety of alcohol when I worked at a liquor store I would need to card all 4 of them. Usually 2 of them would leave while the other 2 purchased and then lied saying they had no idea who those others were. We would ask for their IDs anyways and end up refusing the entire sale
– Red Mage
Jul 18 at 12:37
|
show 1 more comment
protected by animuson♦ Jul 18 at 2:27
Thank you for your interest in this question.
Because it has attracted low-quality or spam answers that had to be removed, posting an answer now requires 10 reputation on this site (the association bonus does not count).
Would you like to answer one of these unanswered questions instead?
9
In the UK if you look under 25 (the legal drinking age is 18) you are required to prove your age and it is clearly written in large signs inside the shops. I was ID'd when aged 35.
– Vladimir F
Jul 17 at 7:41
3
Hi, and welcome to law.SE! Your question contained some details that are not relevant (such as why you do not like to carry a wallet). I edited these out to make the question more focussed and suitable for the site. Also, I added a tag to indicate this is in the US, since legal questions depend on jurisdiction. Feel free to re-edit if there is something wrong!
– sleske
Jul 17 at 7:45
10
From the store's perspective, you're not an adult, you're a possible minor.
– Nuclear Wang
Jul 17 at 12:42
9
This is weird and happens in Texas too. Parents can buy wine when their 5 year old is in tow, can legally let their kids drink at home with them, can LEGALLY let restaurants serve alcohol to their underage kids when the parent is with them in the restaurant! but if their kids look over 10 they can't sell the parent alcohol at a store unless they leave their kids out in the hot car. Lawmakers are nuts now.
– mark b
Jul 17 at 17:55
12
@VladimirF This question is not about the purchaser's age or ID / lack of ID. It is about the lack of ID of someone accompanying the purchaser. Nothing about that scenario is clearly written on shop signs.
– JBentley
Jul 18 at 2:28