Why didn't the Archangel Michael save Jesus when he was crucified?From where do Jehovah's Witnesses derive the doctrine that Jesus was and now is Michael the Archangel?Why did Jesus curse the fig tree?Was Jesus' power limited relative to the belief of others?Did Jesus die on the cross or on the tree?Why was the significance of Jesus' upcoming betrayal hidden from His disciples?Why or where were the 1000s of people who knew Jesus, why didn't they helpWhy is archangel Michael portrayed with a sword in art?Why didn't the universe fall apart when Jesus died?Old Portrayal of St Michael the ArchangelIsn't Israel the firstborn Son of the Lord?Did Baptist and Methodists ever believe that Jesus is Michael the Archangel?

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Why didn't the Archangel Michael save Jesus when he was crucified?


From where do Jehovah's Witnesses derive the doctrine that Jesus was and now is Michael the Archangel?Why did Jesus curse the fig tree?Was Jesus' power limited relative to the belief of others?Did Jesus die on the cross or on the tree?Why was the significance of Jesus' upcoming betrayal hidden from His disciples?Why or where were the 1000s of people who knew Jesus, why didn't they helpWhy is archangel Michael portrayed with a sword in art?Why didn't the universe fall apart when Jesus died?Old Portrayal of St Michael the ArchangelIsn't Israel the firstborn Son of the Lord?Did Baptist and Methodists ever believe that Jesus is Michael the Archangel?






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7















I have read several articles about Michael the archangel, who is meant for the protection of people and souls.



Out of curiosity, I wondered: since Jesus is Son of God and also a prophet, why didn't God's Archangel Michael save Jesus when he was crucified?










share|improve this question



















  • 3





    is there a particular denominations point of view you are looking for?

    – depperm
    Jul 8 at 16:27






  • 2





    Welcome to Christianity Stack Exchange. This is a site that discusses the beliefs of many different Christian denominations and traditions. You need to specify the Christian tradition or denomination from which you seek answers and avoid questions that are primarily opinion-based. Good questions show research and provide evidence of any claims made. When you have a moment, please take the Christianity Stack tour to learn more about us: christianity.stackexchange.com/tour

    – Lesley
    Jul 8 at 16:41






  • 14





    Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be? Matthew 26:54.

    – Nigel J
    Jul 8 at 16:43






  • 4





    @depperm I think we can dispense with the requirement for a denomination. In general terms Christians would not disagree much about this.

    – DJClayworth
    Jul 8 at 17:27






  • 2





    @DJClayworth Jehovah’s Witnesses who believe Michael and Jesus are different names for the Son of Jehovah would obviously have a very different perspective from other denominations. christianity.stackexchange.com/a/14509/23657

    – Kris
    Jul 8 at 20:53

















7















I have read several articles about Michael the archangel, who is meant for the protection of people and souls.



Out of curiosity, I wondered: since Jesus is Son of God and also a prophet, why didn't God's Archangel Michael save Jesus when he was crucified?










share|improve this question



















  • 3





    is there a particular denominations point of view you are looking for?

    – depperm
    Jul 8 at 16:27






  • 2





    Welcome to Christianity Stack Exchange. This is a site that discusses the beliefs of many different Christian denominations and traditions. You need to specify the Christian tradition or denomination from which you seek answers and avoid questions that are primarily opinion-based. Good questions show research and provide evidence of any claims made. When you have a moment, please take the Christianity Stack tour to learn more about us: christianity.stackexchange.com/tour

    – Lesley
    Jul 8 at 16:41






  • 14





    Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be? Matthew 26:54.

    – Nigel J
    Jul 8 at 16:43






  • 4





    @depperm I think we can dispense with the requirement for a denomination. In general terms Christians would not disagree much about this.

    – DJClayworth
    Jul 8 at 17:27






  • 2





    @DJClayworth Jehovah’s Witnesses who believe Michael and Jesus are different names for the Son of Jehovah would obviously have a very different perspective from other denominations. christianity.stackexchange.com/a/14509/23657

    – Kris
    Jul 8 at 20:53













7












7








7








I have read several articles about Michael the archangel, who is meant for the protection of people and souls.



Out of curiosity, I wondered: since Jesus is Son of God and also a prophet, why didn't God's Archangel Michael save Jesus when he was crucified?










share|improve this question
















I have read several articles about Michael the archangel, who is meant for the protection of people and souls.



Out of curiosity, I wondered: since Jesus is Son of God and also a prophet, why didn't God's Archangel Michael save Jesus when he was crucified?







life-of-jesus christology crucifixion michael






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Jul 9 at 7:31









curiousdannii

10.5k7 gold badges36 silver badges81 bronze badges




10.5k7 gold badges36 silver badges81 bronze badges










asked Jul 8 at 16:25









Mayur PatilMayur Patil

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1411 silver badge7 bronze badges







  • 3





    is there a particular denominations point of view you are looking for?

    – depperm
    Jul 8 at 16:27






  • 2





    Welcome to Christianity Stack Exchange. This is a site that discusses the beliefs of many different Christian denominations and traditions. You need to specify the Christian tradition or denomination from which you seek answers and avoid questions that are primarily opinion-based. Good questions show research and provide evidence of any claims made. When you have a moment, please take the Christianity Stack tour to learn more about us: christianity.stackexchange.com/tour

    – Lesley
    Jul 8 at 16:41






  • 14





    Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be? Matthew 26:54.

    – Nigel J
    Jul 8 at 16:43






  • 4





    @depperm I think we can dispense with the requirement for a denomination. In general terms Christians would not disagree much about this.

    – DJClayworth
    Jul 8 at 17:27






  • 2





    @DJClayworth Jehovah’s Witnesses who believe Michael and Jesus are different names for the Son of Jehovah would obviously have a very different perspective from other denominations. christianity.stackexchange.com/a/14509/23657

    – Kris
    Jul 8 at 20:53












  • 3





    is there a particular denominations point of view you are looking for?

    – depperm
    Jul 8 at 16:27






  • 2





    Welcome to Christianity Stack Exchange. This is a site that discusses the beliefs of many different Christian denominations and traditions. You need to specify the Christian tradition or denomination from which you seek answers and avoid questions that are primarily opinion-based. Good questions show research and provide evidence of any claims made. When you have a moment, please take the Christianity Stack tour to learn more about us: christianity.stackexchange.com/tour

    – Lesley
    Jul 8 at 16:41






  • 14





    Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be? Matthew 26:54.

    – Nigel J
    Jul 8 at 16:43






  • 4





    @depperm I think we can dispense with the requirement for a denomination. In general terms Christians would not disagree much about this.

    – DJClayworth
    Jul 8 at 17:27






  • 2





    @DJClayworth Jehovah’s Witnesses who believe Michael and Jesus are different names for the Son of Jehovah would obviously have a very different perspective from other denominations. christianity.stackexchange.com/a/14509/23657

    – Kris
    Jul 8 at 20:53







3




3





is there a particular denominations point of view you are looking for?

– depperm
Jul 8 at 16:27





is there a particular denominations point of view you are looking for?

– depperm
Jul 8 at 16:27




2




2





Welcome to Christianity Stack Exchange. This is a site that discusses the beliefs of many different Christian denominations and traditions. You need to specify the Christian tradition or denomination from which you seek answers and avoid questions that are primarily opinion-based. Good questions show research and provide evidence of any claims made. When you have a moment, please take the Christianity Stack tour to learn more about us: christianity.stackexchange.com/tour

– Lesley
Jul 8 at 16:41





Welcome to Christianity Stack Exchange. This is a site that discusses the beliefs of many different Christian denominations and traditions. You need to specify the Christian tradition or denomination from which you seek answers and avoid questions that are primarily opinion-based. Good questions show research and provide evidence of any claims made. When you have a moment, please take the Christianity Stack tour to learn more about us: christianity.stackexchange.com/tour

– Lesley
Jul 8 at 16:41




14




14





Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be? Matthew 26:54.

– Nigel J
Jul 8 at 16:43





Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be? Matthew 26:54.

– Nigel J
Jul 8 at 16:43




4




4





@depperm I think we can dispense with the requirement for a denomination. In general terms Christians would not disagree much about this.

– DJClayworth
Jul 8 at 17:27





@depperm I think we can dispense with the requirement for a denomination. In general terms Christians would not disagree much about this.

– DJClayworth
Jul 8 at 17:27




2




2





@DJClayworth Jehovah’s Witnesses who believe Michael and Jesus are different names for the Son of Jehovah would obviously have a very different perspective from other denominations. christianity.stackexchange.com/a/14509/23657

– Kris
Jul 8 at 20:53





@DJClayworth Jehovah’s Witnesses who believe Michael and Jesus are different names for the Son of Jehovah would obviously have a very different perspective from other denominations. christianity.stackexchange.com/a/14509/23657

– Kris
Jul 8 at 20:53










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















20














Jesus' main purpose in coming to earth was to die on the cross in order to redeem mankind from their sins.



He attests to this in a number of places in the Bible, and other writers of scripture also say this.



Therefore to have Michael or any other archangel rescue Jesus would be to go against the wishes of God the Father - which Jesus, in his obedience, did not want.



When Jesus disciples try to defend him he tells them not to, and explicitly addresses this question (Matthew 26:52-54):




“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?”




He predicts the manner of his death here.



You can see the theological necessity of it in Romans 5: 6-11




You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.







share|improve this answer




















  • 2





    This answer is correct, but I'd be inclined to add that Jesus, being divine, wouldn't even have needed those 12 legions of angels (or one archangel Michael). See John 18:9 --- "As soon then as he had said to them [i.e., to those who had come to arrest Him], I am he, they went backward and fell to the ground."

    – Andreas Blass
    Jul 8 at 18:16






  • 2





    @AndreasBlass But in manhood, he does not express the kind of Divine Power of which you speak, in order to preserve his human manifestation. Which is why Jesus himself speaks of the Father (not himself, as such) providing twelve legions of angels, Matthew 26:54.

    – Nigel J
    Jul 8 at 20:43







  • 3





    Let's not discuss this now please.

    – DJClayworth
    Jul 8 at 23:18











  • @NigelJ: "And he walked through the middle of the crowd"

    – Joshua
    Jul 9 at 15:57











  • Your initial assertion, "... to redeem mankind from their sins" sounds like an assertion of universal redemption. If so, what are the supporting verses to which you allude?, and how do you avoid the consequential connection to universal justification (Rom 3:24)? and universal salvation (Rom 5:9)?

    – AFL
    Jul 10 at 2:34


















1














There are some things about Jesus divinity which need be understood in consideration of your question. We must first understand that when we subscribe to the concept of the Trinity; we are accepting that Jesus is a third part of God. The other two parts of God being the Father and the Holy Ghost.
Angels are not creatures with free will as are Mankind. Angels are only capable of doing the will of God; since they are incapable of weighing the options.
Jesus as a third part of God therefore has the power to direct the actions of Angels; and as shown by DJClayworth Jesus did not want any interference with his execution of the will of the Father.




John 5:30 KJV  I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. 




Jesus came into this World for only one purpose; and that was to reclaim the lost to the Father. Since Jesus purpose for coming to earth, in the first place, was to bring back God's creation to him, anything less would have been to waste his coming.




John 6:39 and 40 KJV  And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.




Here Jesus is making reference to the Great White throne judgment.




 Revelation 7:9 through 15 KJV  After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.




This is the reasoning behind Salvation, Who those are; who Jesus referred to as those which the Father has given me. or as John described in John Chapter 0ne.




 John 1:1 through 5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. 
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.




From verse 3 we learn that Jesus Created all things. This explains what Jesus meant by his statement:




John 6:39 and 40  And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.




And those who the other two parts of the Trinity have given him are:




John 3:16 through 18 KJV  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.




So what we learn from this is that God in his anger; would destroy all creation, but has acquiesced to give Jesus those for whom he assumed their sins and suffered the penalty given to Adam as punishment for disobedience. We can almost hear God telling Michael and the other Angels to destroy all creation, and then at the intervention of Jesus, allowing Jesus to redeem a part of his creation, and having the Angels put off their destruction until the end times.




Revelation 21:1 through 4 KJV  And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.




We are left to assume that God in his anger has decreed that all creation is to come to utter destruction, but has graciously allowed Jesus to reclaim a small portion of his creation; to move to a new creation where God will create a perfect atmosphere to go into Eternity. And the reason for the Angels not saving Jesus at the cross was their having been on a temporary hold by God in order for Jesus to reclaim those believers in not only Jesus divinity, but also his passion for having those which he created in the likeness of God. That likeness is also a trinity including body, Spirit and Soul.    






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    2 Answers
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    2 Answers
    2






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    20














    Jesus' main purpose in coming to earth was to die on the cross in order to redeem mankind from their sins.



    He attests to this in a number of places in the Bible, and other writers of scripture also say this.



    Therefore to have Michael or any other archangel rescue Jesus would be to go against the wishes of God the Father - which Jesus, in his obedience, did not want.



    When Jesus disciples try to defend him he tells them not to, and explicitly addresses this question (Matthew 26:52-54):




    “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?”




    He predicts the manner of his death here.



    You can see the theological necessity of it in Romans 5: 6-11




    You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.







    share|improve this answer




















    • 2





      This answer is correct, but I'd be inclined to add that Jesus, being divine, wouldn't even have needed those 12 legions of angels (or one archangel Michael). See John 18:9 --- "As soon then as he had said to them [i.e., to those who had come to arrest Him], I am he, they went backward and fell to the ground."

      – Andreas Blass
      Jul 8 at 18:16






    • 2





      @AndreasBlass But in manhood, he does not express the kind of Divine Power of which you speak, in order to preserve his human manifestation. Which is why Jesus himself speaks of the Father (not himself, as such) providing twelve legions of angels, Matthew 26:54.

      – Nigel J
      Jul 8 at 20:43







    • 3





      Let's not discuss this now please.

      – DJClayworth
      Jul 8 at 23:18











    • @NigelJ: "And he walked through the middle of the crowd"

      – Joshua
      Jul 9 at 15:57











    • Your initial assertion, "... to redeem mankind from their sins" sounds like an assertion of universal redemption. If so, what are the supporting verses to which you allude?, and how do you avoid the consequential connection to universal justification (Rom 3:24)? and universal salvation (Rom 5:9)?

      – AFL
      Jul 10 at 2:34















    20














    Jesus' main purpose in coming to earth was to die on the cross in order to redeem mankind from their sins.



    He attests to this in a number of places in the Bible, and other writers of scripture also say this.



    Therefore to have Michael or any other archangel rescue Jesus would be to go against the wishes of God the Father - which Jesus, in his obedience, did not want.



    When Jesus disciples try to defend him he tells them not to, and explicitly addresses this question (Matthew 26:52-54):




    “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?”




    He predicts the manner of his death here.



    You can see the theological necessity of it in Romans 5: 6-11




    You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.







    share|improve this answer




















    • 2





      This answer is correct, but I'd be inclined to add that Jesus, being divine, wouldn't even have needed those 12 legions of angels (or one archangel Michael). See John 18:9 --- "As soon then as he had said to them [i.e., to those who had come to arrest Him], I am he, they went backward and fell to the ground."

      – Andreas Blass
      Jul 8 at 18:16






    • 2





      @AndreasBlass But in manhood, he does not express the kind of Divine Power of which you speak, in order to preserve his human manifestation. Which is why Jesus himself speaks of the Father (not himself, as such) providing twelve legions of angels, Matthew 26:54.

      – Nigel J
      Jul 8 at 20:43







    • 3





      Let's not discuss this now please.

      – DJClayworth
      Jul 8 at 23:18











    • @NigelJ: "And he walked through the middle of the crowd"

      – Joshua
      Jul 9 at 15:57











    • Your initial assertion, "... to redeem mankind from their sins" sounds like an assertion of universal redemption. If so, what are the supporting verses to which you allude?, and how do you avoid the consequential connection to universal justification (Rom 3:24)? and universal salvation (Rom 5:9)?

      – AFL
      Jul 10 at 2:34













    20












    20








    20







    Jesus' main purpose in coming to earth was to die on the cross in order to redeem mankind from their sins.



    He attests to this in a number of places in the Bible, and other writers of scripture also say this.



    Therefore to have Michael or any other archangel rescue Jesus would be to go against the wishes of God the Father - which Jesus, in his obedience, did not want.



    When Jesus disciples try to defend him he tells them not to, and explicitly addresses this question (Matthew 26:52-54):




    “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?”




    He predicts the manner of his death here.



    You can see the theological necessity of it in Romans 5: 6-11




    You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.







    share|improve this answer















    Jesus' main purpose in coming to earth was to die on the cross in order to redeem mankind from their sins.



    He attests to this in a number of places in the Bible, and other writers of scripture also say this.



    Therefore to have Michael or any other archangel rescue Jesus would be to go against the wishes of God the Father - which Jesus, in his obedience, did not want.



    When Jesus disciples try to defend him he tells them not to, and explicitly addresses this question (Matthew 26:52-54):




    “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?”




    He predicts the manner of his death here.



    You can see the theological necessity of it in Romans 5: 6-11




    You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.








    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited Jul 8 at 18:40

























    answered Jul 8 at 17:21









    DJClayworthDJClayworth

    22.7k4 gold badges45 silver badges98 bronze badges




    22.7k4 gold badges45 silver badges98 bronze badges







    • 2





      This answer is correct, but I'd be inclined to add that Jesus, being divine, wouldn't even have needed those 12 legions of angels (or one archangel Michael). See John 18:9 --- "As soon then as he had said to them [i.e., to those who had come to arrest Him], I am he, they went backward and fell to the ground."

      – Andreas Blass
      Jul 8 at 18:16






    • 2





      @AndreasBlass But in manhood, he does not express the kind of Divine Power of which you speak, in order to preserve his human manifestation. Which is why Jesus himself speaks of the Father (not himself, as such) providing twelve legions of angels, Matthew 26:54.

      – Nigel J
      Jul 8 at 20:43







    • 3





      Let's not discuss this now please.

      – DJClayworth
      Jul 8 at 23:18











    • @NigelJ: "And he walked through the middle of the crowd"

      – Joshua
      Jul 9 at 15:57











    • Your initial assertion, "... to redeem mankind from their sins" sounds like an assertion of universal redemption. If so, what are the supporting verses to which you allude?, and how do you avoid the consequential connection to universal justification (Rom 3:24)? and universal salvation (Rom 5:9)?

      – AFL
      Jul 10 at 2:34












    • 2





      This answer is correct, but I'd be inclined to add that Jesus, being divine, wouldn't even have needed those 12 legions of angels (or one archangel Michael). See John 18:9 --- "As soon then as he had said to them [i.e., to those who had come to arrest Him], I am he, they went backward and fell to the ground."

      – Andreas Blass
      Jul 8 at 18:16






    • 2





      @AndreasBlass But in manhood, he does not express the kind of Divine Power of which you speak, in order to preserve his human manifestation. Which is why Jesus himself speaks of the Father (not himself, as such) providing twelve legions of angels, Matthew 26:54.

      – Nigel J
      Jul 8 at 20:43







    • 3





      Let's not discuss this now please.

      – DJClayworth
      Jul 8 at 23:18











    • @NigelJ: "And he walked through the middle of the crowd"

      – Joshua
      Jul 9 at 15:57











    • Your initial assertion, "... to redeem mankind from their sins" sounds like an assertion of universal redemption. If so, what are the supporting verses to which you allude?, and how do you avoid the consequential connection to universal justification (Rom 3:24)? and universal salvation (Rom 5:9)?

      – AFL
      Jul 10 at 2:34







    2




    2





    This answer is correct, but I'd be inclined to add that Jesus, being divine, wouldn't even have needed those 12 legions of angels (or one archangel Michael). See John 18:9 --- "As soon then as he had said to them [i.e., to those who had come to arrest Him], I am he, they went backward and fell to the ground."

    – Andreas Blass
    Jul 8 at 18:16





    This answer is correct, but I'd be inclined to add that Jesus, being divine, wouldn't even have needed those 12 legions of angels (or one archangel Michael). See John 18:9 --- "As soon then as he had said to them [i.e., to those who had come to arrest Him], I am he, they went backward and fell to the ground."

    – Andreas Blass
    Jul 8 at 18:16




    2




    2





    @AndreasBlass But in manhood, he does not express the kind of Divine Power of which you speak, in order to preserve his human manifestation. Which is why Jesus himself speaks of the Father (not himself, as such) providing twelve legions of angels, Matthew 26:54.

    – Nigel J
    Jul 8 at 20:43






    @AndreasBlass But in manhood, he does not express the kind of Divine Power of which you speak, in order to preserve his human manifestation. Which is why Jesus himself speaks of the Father (not himself, as such) providing twelve legions of angels, Matthew 26:54.

    – Nigel J
    Jul 8 at 20:43





    3




    3





    Let's not discuss this now please.

    – DJClayworth
    Jul 8 at 23:18





    Let's not discuss this now please.

    – DJClayworth
    Jul 8 at 23:18













    @NigelJ: "And he walked through the middle of the crowd"

    – Joshua
    Jul 9 at 15:57





    @NigelJ: "And he walked through the middle of the crowd"

    – Joshua
    Jul 9 at 15:57













    Your initial assertion, "... to redeem mankind from their sins" sounds like an assertion of universal redemption. If so, what are the supporting verses to which you allude?, and how do you avoid the consequential connection to universal justification (Rom 3:24)? and universal salvation (Rom 5:9)?

    – AFL
    Jul 10 at 2:34





    Your initial assertion, "... to redeem mankind from their sins" sounds like an assertion of universal redemption. If so, what are the supporting verses to which you allude?, and how do you avoid the consequential connection to universal justification (Rom 3:24)? and universal salvation (Rom 5:9)?

    – AFL
    Jul 10 at 2:34













    1














    There are some things about Jesus divinity which need be understood in consideration of your question. We must first understand that when we subscribe to the concept of the Trinity; we are accepting that Jesus is a third part of God. The other two parts of God being the Father and the Holy Ghost.
    Angels are not creatures with free will as are Mankind. Angels are only capable of doing the will of God; since they are incapable of weighing the options.
    Jesus as a third part of God therefore has the power to direct the actions of Angels; and as shown by DJClayworth Jesus did not want any interference with his execution of the will of the Father.




    John 5:30 KJV  I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. 




    Jesus came into this World for only one purpose; and that was to reclaim the lost to the Father. Since Jesus purpose for coming to earth, in the first place, was to bring back God's creation to him, anything less would have been to waste his coming.




    John 6:39 and 40 KJV  And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.




    Here Jesus is making reference to the Great White throne judgment.




     Revelation 7:9 through 15 KJV  After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.




    This is the reasoning behind Salvation, Who those are; who Jesus referred to as those which the Father has given me. or as John described in John Chapter 0ne.




     John 1:1 through 5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. 
    All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 
    And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.




    From verse 3 we learn that Jesus Created all things. This explains what Jesus meant by his statement:




    John 6:39 and 40  And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.




    And those who the other two parts of the Trinity have given him are:




    John 3:16 through 18 KJV  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 
    He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.




    So what we learn from this is that God in his anger; would destroy all creation, but has acquiesced to give Jesus those for whom he assumed their sins and suffered the penalty given to Adam as punishment for disobedience. We can almost hear God telling Michael and the other Angels to destroy all creation, and then at the intervention of Jesus, allowing Jesus to redeem a part of his creation, and having the Angels put off their destruction until the end times.




    Revelation 21:1 through 4 KJV  And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.




    We are left to assume that God in his anger has decreed that all creation is to come to utter destruction, but has graciously allowed Jesus to reclaim a small portion of his creation; to move to a new creation where God will create a perfect atmosphere to go into Eternity. And the reason for the Angels not saving Jesus at the cross was their having been on a temporary hold by God in order for Jesus to reclaim those believers in not only Jesus divinity, but also his passion for having those which he created in the likeness of God. That likeness is also a trinity including body, Spirit and Soul.    






    share|improve this answer



























      1














      There are some things about Jesus divinity which need be understood in consideration of your question. We must first understand that when we subscribe to the concept of the Trinity; we are accepting that Jesus is a third part of God. The other two parts of God being the Father and the Holy Ghost.
      Angels are not creatures with free will as are Mankind. Angels are only capable of doing the will of God; since they are incapable of weighing the options.
      Jesus as a third part of God therefore has the power to direct the actions of Angels; and as shown by DJClayworth Jesus did not want any interference with his execution of the will of the Father.




      John 5:30 KJV  I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. 




      Jesus came into this World for only one purpose; and that was to reclaim the lost to the Father. Since Jesus purpose for coming to earth, in the first place, was to bring back God's creation to him, anything less would have been to waste his coming.




      John 6:39 and 40 KJV  And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.




      Here Jesus is making reference to the Great White throne judgment.




       Revelation 7:9 through 15 KJV  After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.




      This is the reasoning behind Salvation, Who those are; who Jesus referred to as those which the Father has given me. or as John described in John Chapter 0ne.




       John 1:1 through 5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. 
      All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 
      And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.




      From verse 3 we learn that Jesus Created all things. This explains what Jesus meant by his statement:




      John 6:39 and 40  And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.




      And those who the other two parts of the Trinity have given him are:




      John 3:16 through 18 KJV  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 
      He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.




      So what we learn from this is that God in his anger; would destroy all creation, but has acquiesced to give Jesus those for whom he assumed their sins and suffered the penalty given to Adam as punishment for disobedience. We can almost hear God telling Michael and the other Angels to destroy all creation, and then at the intervention of Jesus, allowing Jesus to redeem a part of his creation, and having the Angels put off their destruction until the end times.




      Revelation 21:1 through 4 KJV  And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.




      We are left to assume that God in his anger has decreed that all creation is to come to utter destruction, but has graciously allowed Jesus to reclaim a small portion of his creation; to move to a new creation where God will create a perfect atmosphere to go into Eternity. And the reason for the Angels not saving Jesus at the cross was their having been on a temporary hold by God in order for Jesus to reclaim those believers in not only Jesus divinity, but also his passion for having those which he created in the likeness of God. That likeness is also a trinity including body, Spirit and Soul.    






      share|improve this answer

























        1












        1








        1







        There are some things about Jesus divinity which need be understood in consideration of your question. We must first understand that when we subscribe to the concept of the Trinity; we are accepting that Jesus is a third part of God. The other two parts of God being the Father and the Holy Ghost.
        Angels are not creatures with free will as are Mankind. Angels are only capable of doing the will of God; since they are incapable of weighing the options.
        Jesus as a third part of God therefore has the power to direct the actions of Angels; and as shown by DJClayworth Jesus did not want any interference with his execution of the will of the Father.




        John 5:30 KJV  I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. 




        Jesus came into this World for only one purpose; and that was to reclaim the lost to the Father. Since Jesus purpose for coming to earth, in the first place, was to bring back God's creation to him, anything less would have been to waste his coming.




        John 6:39 and 40 KJV  And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.




        Here Jesus is making reference to the Great White throne judgment.




         Revelation 7:9 through 15 KJV  After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.




        This is the reasoning behind Salvation, Who those are; who Jesus referred to as those which the Father has given me. or as John described in John Chapter 0ne.




         John 1:1 through 5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. 
        All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 
        And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.




        From verse 3 we learn that Jesus Created all things. This explains what Jesus meant by his statement:




        John 6:39 and 40  And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.




        And those who the other two parts of the Trinity have given him are:




        John 3:16 through 18 KJV  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 
        He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.




        So what we learn from this is that God in his anger; would destroy all creation, but has acquiesced to give Jesus those for whom he assumed their sins and suffered the penalty given to Adam as punishment for disobedience. We can almost hear God telling Michael and the other Angels to destroy all creation, and then at the intervention of Jesus, allowing Jesus to redeem a part of his creation, and having the Angels put off their destruction until the end times.




        Revelation 21:1 through 4 KJV  And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.




        We are left to assume that God in his anger has decreed that all creation is to come to utter destruction, but has graciously allowed Jesus to reclaim a small portion of his creation; to move to a new creation where God will create a perfect atmosphere to go into Eternity. And the reason for the Angels not saving Jesus at the cross was their having been on a temporary hold by God in order for Jesus to reclaim those believers in not only Jesus divinity, but also his passion for having those which he created in the likeness of God. That likeness is also a trinity including body, Spirit and Soul.    






        share|improve this answer













        There are some things about Jesus divinity which need be understood in consideration of your question. We must first understand that when we subscribe to the concept of the Trinity; we are accepting that Jesus is a third part of God. The other two parts of God being the Father and the Holy Ghost.
        Angels are not creatures with free will as are Mankind. Angels are only capable of doing the will of God; since they are incapable of weighing the options.
        Jesus as a third part of God therefore has the power to direct the actions of Angels; and as shown by DJClayworth Jesus did not want any interference with his execution of the will of the Father.




        John 5:30 KJV  I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. 




        Jesus came into this World for only one purpose; and that was to reclaim the lost to the Father. Since Jesus purpose for coming to earth, in the first place, was to bring back God's creation to him, anything less would have been to waste his coming.




        John 6:39 and 40 KJV  And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.




        Here Jesus is making reference to the Great White throne judgment.




         Revelation 7:9 through 15 KJV  After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.




        This is the reasoning behind Salvation, Who those are; who Jesus referred to as those which the Father has given me. or as John described in John Chapter 0ne.




         John 1:1 through 5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. 
        All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 
        And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.




        From verse 3 we learn that Jesus Created all things. This explains what Jesus meant by his statement:




        John 6:39 and 40  And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.




        And those who the other two parts of the Trinity have given him are:




        John 3:16 through 18 KJV  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 
        He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.




        So what we learn from this is that God in his anger; would destroy all creation, but has acquiesced to give Jesus those for whom he assumed their sins and suffered the penalty given to Adam as punishment for disobedience. We can almost hear God telling Michael and the other Angels to destroy all creation, and then at the intervention of Jesus, allowing Jesus to redeem a part of his creation, and having the Angels put off their destruction until the end times.




        Revelation 21:1 through 4 KJV  And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.




        We are left to assume that God in his anger has decreed that all creation is to come to utter destruction, but has graciously allowed Jesus to reclaim a small portion of his creation; to move to a new creation where God will create a perfect atmosphere to go into Eternity. And the reason for the Angels not saving Jesus at the cross was their having been on a temporary hold by God in order for Jesus to reclaim those believers in not only Jesus divinity, but also his passion for having those which he created in the likeness of God. That likeness is also a trinity including body, Spirit and Soul.    







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered Jul 10 at 19:21









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