Usage of the preposition “от”What are the different operators like =,<,>,% etc. called (named) in RussianWhat word was used in Russian for line before the borrowing of “линия”?How does counting change the suffix of a word?Usage of verb взять

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Usage of the preposition “от”


What are the different operators like =,<,>,% etc. called (named) in RussianWhat word was used in Russian for line before the borrowing of “линия”?How does counting change the suffix of a word?Usage of verb взять






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








4















A text I was reading used производная от полинома a few times. What extra detail does от add that is not present in производная полинома? Are производная от функции or сумма от чисел also acceptable, and if so how do those differ from производная функции or сумма чисел? Does this usage of от (where its presence or absence are both meaningful) also appear in non-technical speech?










share|improve this question





















  • 1





    did you try a Google search on different combinations with and without the preposition? i personally am not versed in mathematical lingo but производная от функции sounds natural to me, and it occurs over 20K times in Google which is nevertheless some 10 times less than without the preposition, but they might mean different things, and i know for a fact that частное от деления is a standard phraseology... as far as outside of math, some examples might help, usually от will stress the fact that something is a result or a derivative of something else and does not simply belong to it

    – Баян Купи-ка
    Aug 1 at 7:13







  • 1





    a Wikipedia article is titled производная функции, without the preposition, but again thеy might mean different things

    – Баян Купи-ка
    Aug 1 at 7:17


















4















A text I was reading used производная от полинома a few times. What extra detail does от add that is not present in производная полинома? Are производная от функции or сумма от чисел also acceptable, and if so how do those differ from производная функции or сумма чисел? Does this usage of от (where its presence or absence are both meaningful) also appear in non-technical speech?










share|improve this question





















  • 1





    did you try a Google search on different combinations with and without the preposition? i personally am not versed in mathematical lingo but производная от функции sounds natural to me, and it occurs over 20K times in Google which is nevertheless some 10 times less than without the preposition, but they might mean different things, and i know for a fact that частное от деления is a standard phraseology... as far as outside of math, some examples might help, usually от will stress the fact that something is a result or a derivative of something else and does not simply belong to it

    – Баян Купи-ка
    Aug 1 at 7:13







  • 1





    a Wikipedia article is titled производная функции, without the preposition, but again thеy might mean different things

    – Баян Купи-ка
    Aug 1 at 7:17














4












4








4








A text I was reading used производная от полинома a few times. What extra detail does от add that is not present in производная полинома? Are производная от функции or сумма от чисел also acceptable, and if so how do those differ from производная функции or сумма чисел? Does this usage of от (where its presence or absence are both meaningful) also appear in non-technical speech?










share|improve this question
















A text I was reading used производная от полинома a few times. What extra detail does от add that is not present in производная полинома? Are производная от функции or сумма от чисел also acceptable, and if so how do those differ from производная функции or сумма чисел? Does this usage of от (where its presence or absence are both meaningful) also appear in non-technical speech?







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edited Aug 1 at 8:48









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  • 1





    did you try a Google search on different combinations with and without the preposition? i personally am not versed in mathematical lingo but производная от функции sounds natural to me, and it occurs over 20K times in Google which is nevertheless some 10 times less than without the preposition, but they might mean different things, and i know for a fact that частное от деления is a standard phraseology... as far as outside of math, some examples might help, usually от will stress the fact that something is a result or a derivative of something else and does not simply belong to it

    – Баян Купи-ка
    Aug 1 at 7:13







  • 1





    a Wikipedia article is titled производная функции, without the preposition, but again thеy might mean different things

    – Баян Купи-ка
    Aug 1 at 7:17













  • 1





    did you try a Google search on different combinations with and without the preposition? i personally am not versed in mathematical lingo but производная от функции sounds natural to me, and it occurs over 20K times in Google which is nevertheless some 10 times less than without the preposition, but they might mean different things, and i know for a fact that частное от деления is a standard phraseology... as far as outside of math, some examples might help, usually от will stress the fact that something is a result or a derivative of something else and does not simply belong to it

    – Баян Купи-ка
    Aug 1 at 7:13







  • 1





    a Wikipedia article is titled производная функции, without the preposition, but again thеy might mean different things

    – Баян Купи-ка
    Aug 1 at 7:17








1




1





did you try a Google search on different combinations with and without the preposition? i personally am not versed in mathematical lingo but производная от функции sounds natural to me, and it occurs over 20K times in Google which is nevertheless some 10 times less than without the preposition, but they might mean different things, and i know for a fact that частное от деления is a standard phraseology... as far as outside of math, some examples might help, usually от will stress the fact that something is a result or a derivative of something else and does not simply belong to it

– Баян Купи-ка
Aug 1 at 7:13






did you try a Google search on different combinations with and without the preposition? i personally am not versed in mathematical lingo but производная от функции sounds natural to me, and it occurs over 20K times in Google which is nevertheless some 10 times less than without the preposition, but they might mean different things, and i know for a fact that частное от деления is a standard phraseology... as far as outside of math, some examples might help, usually от will stress the fact that something is a result or a derivative of something else and does not simply belong to it

– Баян Купи-ка
Aug 1 at 7:13





1




1





a Wikipedia article is titled производная функции, without the preposition, but again thеy might mean different things

– Баян Купи-ка
Aug 1 at 7:17






a Wikipedia article is titled производная функции, without the preposition, but again thеy might mean different things

– Баян Купи-ка
Aug 1 at 7:17











5 Answers
5






active

oldest

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3














In a mathematical context, there is no practical difference. Where "от" is explicitly used, it just (in my view) reinforces the genetive case. In some phrases it is customary; in some not ("сумма от чисел" is never used, it would have a different (non-sensical) meaning, see below).



You can more often see "от" when there is a dependent word, such as "производная от функции sin(x)" [hey, no MathJax here?!] (vs "производная функции" as an independent term), but this is not a specific rule.



In general usage, direct use without a preposition is roughly equivalent to english "of" (posession/belonging), whereas "от" is equivalent to "from" (origin/source). It math, this is often the same, but in many cases it is not.



Pelmeni






share|improve this answer
































    3














    First thing - "от" is not a verb, but preposition.



    As for usage with derevatives - mathimatical text in Russian is very hard to read due to lots of grammatics dependences between close and distant phrases and terms. While in simple text there is no difference between using and not using "от" (it's a matter of taste), in complex text this preposition helps to avoid ambiguity.



    Consider this simple example:




    "не следует производить интегрирование по Жордану производной сложного полинома тригонометрических функций"




    While it is still uderstandable, I (who think up this phrase!) need to read it twice. Prepositions will make it clearer for sure. In Russian such a "chain of nouns" is s stylistic error (unlike in English).



    As for "сумма от чисел" - it is unacceptable, becase of plural form and dual nature of sum operation. "Сумма от числа" would be acceptable if it had sense.



    Also acceptable "квадратный корень от числа" (but not used much), "интеграл от функции"






    share|improve this answer




















    • 1





      "квадратный корень из числа" я бы сказал скорее

      – RiaD
      Aug 1 at 13:28


















    1














    No extra details.



    Some people use 'от' when they talk about algebraic or trigonometric functions (but not arithmetic though).



    So 'Производная от функции', 'Интеграл от функции' are acceptable as well as 'Синус от нуля' or 'Экспонента от функции'. However, if you see it in a written text it probably means that author has poor grammar.



    'Сумма от чисел', 'Произведение от чисел' aren't acceptable at all.






    share|improve this answer
































      0














      If you think about it semantically, производная comes from производить, to produce. So the word indicates origin or ingredients, so we use от with it, like it's "made from".



      A sum though is like a collection of or a container of things. Мешок камней, сумма чисел. A sum of things.



      Or for example, in Russian when we talk about square root, we say извлекать корень, to "extract a root", because извлекать (а) ИЗ (б), we tend to say квадратный корень из числа.



      They're not hard and fast rules and alternative prepositions are accepted, but these are just some examples of semantic logic for those prepositions in math.






      share|improve this answer
































        0














        It appears in non-technical contexts. "Колесо машины" and "колесо от машины" will have the same meaning when you see a wheel lying dismantled near a car as well as on its own with no car in view. But when a wheel is mounted where it should be, you'd better say "колесо машины". The same usage is applied to almost all similar constructions. But in colloquial speech you can both use "от" or not use it without any change of meaning notwithstanding the whole and the part being together or having been laid separately.



        One note to be heeded is that insofar as a kind of instrument and not the whole and its part is concerned the preposition "от" is rather used (ключ от квартиры, средство от комаров).






        share|improve this answer





























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          5 Answers
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          5 Answers
          5






          active

          oldest

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          active

          oldest

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          active

          oldest

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          3














          In a mathematical context, there is no practical difference. Where "от" is explicitly used, it just (in my view) reinforces the genetive case. In some phrases it is customary; in some not ("сумма от чисел" is never used, it would have a different (non-sensical) meaning, see below).



          You can more often see "от" when there is a dependent word, such as "производная от функции sin(x)" [hey, no MathJax here?!] (vs "производная функции" as an independent term), but this is not a specific rule.



          In general usage, direct use without a preposition is roughly equivalent to english "of" (posession/belonging), whereas "от" is equivalent to "from" (origin/source). It math, this is often the same, but in many cases it is not.



          Pelmeni






          share|improve this answer





























            3














            In a mathematical context, there is no practical difference. Where "от" is explicitly used, it just (in my view) reinforces the genetive case. In some phrases it is customary; in some not ("сумма от чисел" is never used, it would have a different (non-sensical) meaning, see below).



            You can more often see "от" when there is a dependent word, such as "производная от функции sin(x)" [hey, no MathJax here?!] (vs "производная функции" as an independent term), but this is not a specific rule.



            In general usage, direct use without a preposition is roughly equivalent to english "of" (posession/belonging), whereas "от" is equivalent to "from" (origin/source). It math, this is often the same, but in many cases it is not.



            Pelmeni






            share|improve this answer



























              3












              3








              3







              In a mathematical context, there is no practical difference. Where "от" is explicitly used, it just (in my view) reinforces the genetive case. In some phrases it is customary; in some not ("сумма от чисел" is never used, it would have a different (non-sensical) meaning, see below).



              You can more often see "от" when there is a dependent word, such as "производная от функции sin(x)" [hey, no MathJax here?!] (vs "производная функции" as an independent term), but this is not a specific rule.



              In general usage, direct use without a preposition is roughly equivalent to english "of" (posession/belonging), whereas "от" is equivalent to "from" (origin/source). It math, this is often the same, but in many cases it is not.



              Pelmeni






              share|improve this answer













              In a mathematical context, there is no practical difference. Where "от" is explicitly used, it just (in my view) reinforces the genetive case. In some phrases it is customary; in some not ("сумма от чисел" is never used, it would have a different (non-sensical) meaning, see below).



              You can more often see "от" when there is a dependent word, such as "производная от функции sin(x)" [hey, no MathJax here?!] (vs "производная функции" as an independent term), but this is not a specific rule.



              In general usage, direct use without a preposition is roughly equivalent to english "of" (posession/belonging), whereas "от" is equivalent to "from" (origin/source). It math, this is often the same, but in many cases it is not.



              Pelmeni







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered Aug 1 at 7:28









              ZeusZeus

              1,4484 silver badges8 bronze badges




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                  3














                  First thing - "от" is not a verb, but preposition.



                  As for usage with derevatives - mathimatical text in Russian is very hard to read due to lots of grammatics dependences between close and distant phrases and terms. While in simple text there is no difference between using and not using "от" (it's a matter of taste), in complex text this preposition helps to avoid ambiguity.



                  Consider this simple example:




                  "не следует производить интегрирование по Жордану производной сложного полинома тригонометрических функций"




                  While it is still uderstandable, I (who think up this phrase!) need to read it twice. Prepositions will make it clearer for sure. In Russian such a "chain of nouns" is s stylistic error (unlike in English).



                  As for "сумма от чисел" - it is unacceptable, becase of plural form and dual nature of sum operation. "Сумма от числа" would be acceptable if it had sense.



                  Also acceptable "квадратный корень от числа" (but not used much), "интеграл от функции"






                  share|improve this answer




















                  • 1





                    "квадратный корень из числа" я бы сказал скорее

                    – RiaD
                    Aug 1 at 13:28















                  3














                  First thing - "от" is not a verb, but preposition.



                  As for usage with derevatives - mathimatical text in Russian is very hard to read due to lots of grammatics dependences between close and distant phrases and terms. While in simple text there is no difference between using and not using "от" (it's a matter of taste), in complex text this preposition helps to avoid ambiguity.



                  Consider this simple example:




                  "не следует производить интегрирование по Жордану производной сложного полинома тригонометрических функций"




                  While it is still uderstandable, I (who think up this phrase!) need to read it twice. Prepositions will make it clearer for sure. In Russian such a "chain of nouns" is s stylistic error (unlike in English).



                  As for "сумма от чисел" - it is unacceptable, becase of plural form and dual nature of sum operation. "Сумма от числа" would be acceptable if it had sense.



                  Also acceptable "квадратный корень от числа" (but not used much), "интеграл от функции"






                  share|improve this answer




















                  • 1





                    "квадратный корень из числа" я бы сказал скорее

                    – RiaD
                    Aug 1 at 13:28













                  3












                  3








                  3







                  First thing - "от" is not a verb, but preposition.



                  As for usage with derevatives - mathimatical text in Russian is very hard to read due to lots of grammatics dependences between close and distant phrases and terms. While in simple text there is no difference between using and not using "от" (it's a matter of taste), in complex text this preposition helps to avoid ambiguity.



                  Consider this simple example:




                  "не следует производить интегрирование по Жордану производной сложного полинома тригонометрических функций"




                  While it is still uderstandable, I (who think up this phrase!) need to read it twice. Prepositions will make it clearer for sure. In Russian such a "chain of nouns" is s stylistic error (unlike in English).



                  As for "сумма от чисел" - it is unacceptable, becase of plural form and dual nature of sum operation. "Сумма от числа" would be acceptable if it had sense.



                  Also acceptable "квадратный корень от числа" (but not used much), "интеграл от функции"






                  share|improve this answer













                  First thing - "от" is not a verb, but preposition.



                  As for usage with derevatives - mathimatical text in Russian is very hard to read due to lots of grammatics dependences between close and distant phrases and terms. While in simple text there is no difference between using and not using "от" (it's a matter of taste), in complex text this preposition helps to avoid ambiguity.



                  Consider this simple example:




                  "не следует производить интегрирование по Жордану производной сложного полинома тригонометрических функций"




                  While it is still uderstandable, I (who think up this phrase!) need to read it twice. Prepositions will make it clearer for sure. In Russian such a "chain of nouns" is s stylistic error (unlike in English).



                  As for "сумма от чисел" - it is unacceptable, becase of plural form and dual nature of sum operation. "Сумма от числа" would be acceptable if it had sense.



                  Also acceptable "квадратный корень от числа" (but not used much), "интеграл от функции"







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered Aug 1 at 7:34









                  ksbesksbes

                  3874 bronze badges




                  3874 bronze badges










                  • 1





                    "квадратный корень из числа" я бы сказал скорее

                    – RiaD
                    Aug 1 at 13:28












                  • 1





                    "квадратный корень из числа" я бы сказал скорее

                    – RiaD
                    Aug 1 at 13:28







                  1




                  1





                  "квадратный корень из числа" я бы сказал скорее

                  – RiaD
                  Aug 1 at 13:28





                  "квадратный корень из числа" я бы сказал скорее

                  – RiaD
                  Aug 1 at 13:28











                  1














                  No extra details.



                  Some people use 'от' when they talk about algebraic or trigonometric functions (but not arithmetic though).



                  So 'Производная от функции', 'Интеграл от функции' are acceptable as well as 'Синус от нуля' or 'Экспонента от функции'. However, if you see it in a written text it probably means that author has poor grammar.



                  'Сумма от чисел', 'Произведение от чисел' aren't acceptable at all.






                  share|improve this answer





























                    1














                    No extra details.



                    Some people use 'от' when they talk about algebraic or trigonometric functions (but not arithmetic though).



                    So 'Производная от функции', 'Интеграл от функции' are acceptable as well as 'Синус от нуля' or 'Экспонента от функции'. However, if you see it in a written text it probably means that author has poor grammar.



                    'Сумма от чисел', 'Произведение от чисел' aren't acceptable at all.






                    share|improve this answer



























                      1












                      1








                      1







                      No extra details.



                      Some people use 'от' when they talk about algebraic or trigonometric functions (but not arithmetic though).



                      So 'Производная от функции', 'Интеграл от функции' are acceptable as well as 'Синус от нуля' or 'Экспонента от функции'. However, if you see it in a written text it probably means that author has poor grammar.



                      'Сумма от чисел', 'Произведение от чисел' aren't acceptable at all.






                      share|improve this answer













                      No extra details.



                      Some people use 'от' when they talk about algebraic or trigonometric functions (but not arithmetic though).



                      So 'Производная от функции', 'Интеграл от функции' are acceptable as well as 'Синус от нуля' or 'Экспонента от функции'. However, if you see it in a written text it probably means that author has poor grammar.



                      'Сумма от чисел', 'Произведение от чисел' aren't acceptable at all.







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered Aug 1 at 7:26









                      VaNdalVaNdal

                      3443 bronze badges




                      3443 bronze badges
























                          0














                          If you think about it semantically, производная comes from производить, to produce. So the word indicates origin or ingredients, so we use от with it, like it's "made from".



                          A sum though is like a collection of or a container of things. Мешок камней, сумма чисел. A sum of things.



                          Or for example, in Russian when we talk about square root, we say извлекать корень, to "extract a root", because извлекать (а) ИЗ (б), we tend to say квадратный корень из числа.



                          They're not hard and fast rules and alternative prepositions are accepted, but these are just some examples of semantic logic for those prepositions in math.






                          share|improve this answer





























                            0














                            If you think about it semantically, производная comes from производить, to produce. So the word indicates origin or ingredients, so we use от with it, like it's "made from".



                            A sum though is like a collection of or a container of things. Мешок камней, сумма чисел. A sum of things.



                            Or for example, in Russian when we talk about square root, we say извлекать корень, to "extract a root", because извлекать (а) ИЗ (б), we tend to say квадратный корень из числа.



                            They're not hard and fast rules and alternative prepositions are accepted, but these are just some examples of semantic logic for those prepositions in math.






                            share|improve this answer



























                              0












                              0








                              0







                              If you think about it semantically, производная comes from производить, to produce. So the word indicates origin or ingredients, so we use от with it, like it's "made from".



                              A sum though is like a collection of or a container of things. Мешок камней, сумма чисел. A sum of things.



                              Or for example, in Russian when we talk about square root, we say извлекать корень, to "extract a root", because извлекать (а) ИЗ (б), we tend to say квадратный корень из числа.



                              They're not hard and fast rules and alternative prepositions are accepted, but these are just some examples of semantic logic for those prepositions in math.






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                              If you think about it semantically, производная comes from производить, to produce. So the word indicates origin or ingredients, so we use от with it, like it's "made from".



                              A sum though is like a collection of or a container of things. Мешок камней, сумма чисел. A sum of things.



                              Or for example, in Russian when we talk about square root, we say извлекать корень, to "extract a root", because извлекать (а) ИЗ (б), we tend to say квадратный корень из числа.



                              They're not hard and fast rules and alternative prepositions are accepted, but these are just some examples of semantic logic for those prepositions in math.







                              share|improve this answer












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                              answered Aug 3 at 7:34









                              CuriosityCuriosity

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                                  It appears in non-technical contexts. "Колесо машины" and "колесо от машины" will have the same meaning when you see a wheel lying dismantled near a car as well as on its own with no car in view. But when a wheel is mounted where it should be, you'd better say "колесо машины". The same usage is applied to almost all similar constructions. But in colloquial speech you can both use "от" or not use it without any change of meaning notwithstanding the whole and the part being together or having been laid separately.



                                  One note to be heeded is that insofar as a kind of instrument and not the whole and its part is concerned the preposition "от" is rather used (ключ от квартиры, средство от комаров).






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                                    It appears in non-technical contexts. "Колесо машины" and "колесо от машины" will have the same meaning when you see a wheel lying dismantled near a car as well as on its own with no car in view. But when a wheel is mounted where it should be, you'd better say "колесо машины". The same usage is applied to almost all similar constructions. But in colloquial speech you can both use "от" or not use it without any change of meaning notwithstanding the whole and the part being together or having been laid separately.



                                    One note to be heeded is that insofar as a kind of instrument and not the whole and its part is concerned the preposition "от" is rather used (ключ от квартиры, средство от комаров).






                                    share|improve this answer





























                                      0












                                      0








                                      0







                                      It appears in non-technical contexts. "Колесо машины" and "колесо от машины" will have the same meaning when you see a wheel lying dismantled near a car as well as on its own with no car in view. But when a wheel is mounted where it should be, you'd better say "колесо машины". The same usage is applied to almost all similar constructions. But in colloquial speech you can both use "от" or not use it without any change of meaning notwithstanding the whole and the part being together or having been laid separately.



                                      One note to be heeded is that insofar as a kind of instrument and not the whole and its part is concerned the preposition "от" is rather used (ключ от квартиры, средство от комаров).






                                      share|improve this answer















                                      It appears in non-technical contexts. "Колесо машины" and "колесо от машины" will have the same meaning when you see a wheel lying dismantled near a car as well as on its own with no car in view. But when a wheel is mounted where it should be, you'd better say "колесо машины". The same usage is applied to almost all similar constructions. But in colloquial speech you can both use "от" or not use it without any change of meaning notwithstanding the whole and the part being together or having been laid separately.



                                      One note to be heeded is that insofar as a kind of instrument and not the whole and its part is concerned the preposition "от" is rather used (ключ от квартиры, средство от комаров).







                                      share|improve this answer














                                      share|improve this answer



                                      share|improve this answer








                                      edited Aug 3 at 21:04

























                                      answered Aug 3 at 19:18









                                      EugeneEugene

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