Usage of verb взятьUsage of the preposition “от”

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Usage of verb взять


Usage of the preposition “от”






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








4















Recently I found out from reading a text that "взять производную" (literally the same as "take the derivative" in English) is an acceptable synonym for продифференцировать, which surprised me since I'd heard that the literal translation взять экзамен from English is incorrect (makes the person sound like a thief).



Does взять work generally as a synonym for вычислить or применить операцию:



прологарифмировать числo = взять логарифм числа?



возвести число в квадрат = взять квадрат числа?



возвести обе стороны уравнения в степень = взять степень обеих сторон уравнения?



извлечь квадратный корень числа = взять квадратный корень числа?



проинтегрировать функцию = взять интеграл функции?



вычислить когомологии короткой точной последовательности = взять когомологии короткой точной последовательности?










share|improve this question


























  • Technically, you've asked multiple questions in a single post. Mods might not like this.

    – tum_
    Aug 1 at 3:25












  • Okay, I split off the second theme of the post (about usage of от) into a separate question now.

    – KCd
    Aug 1 at 3:40


















4















Recently I found out from reading a text that "взять производную" (literally the same as "take the derivative" in English) is an acceptable synonym for продифференцировать, which surprised me since I'd heard that the literal translation взять экзамен from English is incorrect (makes the person sound like a thief).



Does взять work generally as a synonym for вычислить or применить операцию:



прологарифмировать числo = взять логарифм числа?



возвести число в квадрат = взять квадрат числа?



возвести обе стороны уравнения в степень = взять степень обеих сторон уравнения?



извлечь квадратный корень числа = взять квадратный корень числа?



проинтегрировать функцию = взять интеграл функции?



вычислить когомологии короткой точной последовательности = взять когомологии короткой точной последовательности?










share|improve this question


























  • Technically, you've asked multiple questions in a single post. Mods might not like this.

    – tum_
    Aug 1 at 3:25












  • Okay, I split off the second theme of the post (about usage of от) into a separate question now.

    – KCd
    Aug 1 at 3:40














4












4








4


1






Recently I found out from reading a text that "взять производную" (literally the same as "take the derivative" in English) is an acceptable synonym for продифференцировать, which surprised me since I'd heard that the literal translation взять экзамен from English is incorrect (makes the person sound like a thief).



Does взять work generally as a synonym for вычислить or применить операцию:



прологарифмировать числo = взять логарифм числа?



возвести число в квадрат = взять квадрат числа?



возвести обе стороны уравнения в степень = взять степень обеих сторон уравнения?



извлечь квадратный корень числа = взять квадратный корень числа?



проинтегрировать функцию = взять интеграл функции?



вычислить когомологии короткой точной последовательности = взять когомологии короткой точной последовательности?










share|improve this question
















Recently I found out from reading a text that "взять производную" (literally the same as "take the derivative" in English) is an acceptable synonym for продифференцировать, which surprised me since I'd heard that the literal translation взять экзамен from English is incorrect (makes the person sound like a thief).



Does взять work generally as a synonym for вычислить or применить операцию:



прологарифмировать числo = взять логарифм числа?



возвести число в квадрат = взять квадрат числа?



возвести обе стороны уравнения в степень = взять степень обеих сторон уравнения?



извлечь квадратный корень числа = взять квадратный корень числа?



проинтегрировать функцию = взять интеграл функции?



вычислить когомологии короткой точной последовательности = взять когомологии короткой точной последовательности?







математика






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edited yesterday







KCd

















asked Aug 1 at 2:24









KCdKCd

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  • Technically, you've asked multiple questions in a single post. Mods might not like this.

    – tum_
    Aug 1 at 3:25












  • Okay, I split off the second theme of the post (about usage of от) into a separate question now.

    – KCd
    Aug 1 at 3:40


















  • Technically, you've asked multiple questions in a single post. Mods might not like this.

    – tum_
    Aug 1 at 3:25












  • Okay, I split off the second theme of the post (about usage of от) into a separate question now.

    – KCd
    Aug 1 at 3:40

















Technically, you've asked multiple questions in a single post. Mods might not like this.

– tum_
Aug 1 at 3:25






Technically, you've asked multiple questions in a single post. Mods might not like this.

– tum_
Aug 1 at 3:25














Okay, I split off the second theme of the post (about usage of от) into a separate question now.

– KCd
Aug 1 at 3:40






Okay, I split off the second theme of the post (about usage of от) into a separate question now.

– KCd
Aug 1 at 3:40











2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















7














Here's my attempt of an answer (I might have to post it unfinished and come back to it later). I assume that your native language is English.



Take as well as Russian взять / брать are the examples of highly polisemous verbs.



From here:




This paper attempts to show what the definition of a word should look
like, in order to be of use to AI programs such as analyzers and
generators. We concentrate on take, a highly polysemous word which
poses many vexing questions. Why is it that we can say take a
look
 or take a whiff, but not take a stare or take a smell? Why can a
photographer take a picture, while an artist cannot take a painting?
It is clear that there must be several distinct senses of take,
because the implications are different for different usages. For
example, when I take a book (or when I am given a book) it is
felicitous to say I got a book or I have a book. However, if I take it
in stride, it is not the case that I got it in stride or I have it in
stride. Faced with these facts about language, our goal is to come up
with definitions for the various senses of a word...




And the sets of their meanings/senses in English and Russian overlap only partially.



Basically, this is the reason why взять производную is ok while взять экзамен is not.
Even more interestingly - взять такси is perfectly fine while взять автобус/поезд is something you can mostly hear from emigrants (and non-native speakers, of course) who sometimes use calques of the corresponding English/French expressions.



Now to your list of examples. These days one can use Google as a very convenient tool to look up the frequency of occurrences of a particular expression. This normally gives a good indication of whether a phrase is well-established or not.



You could easily do this yourself, so I'll be brief:




Does взять work generally as a synonym for вычислить or применить операцию:




No.




прологарифмировать числo = взять логарифм числа?




Yes (or rather sounds good enough to me, professional mathematicians may disagree).




возвести число в квадрат = взять квадрат числа?




No. взять sounds weird.




возвести обе стороны уравнения в степень = взять степень обеих сторон уравнения?




No. взять sounds weird.




извлечь квадратный корень числа = взять квадратный корень числа?




Hmm... Sounds a bit odd but I'm not sure I'd notice this oddity if I didn't focus on this specifically (as I'm doing now)...




проинтегрировать функцию = взять интеграл функции?




Yes.




вычислить когомологии короткой точной последовательности = взять когомологии короткой точной последовательности?




You've lost me here :) But intuitively, w/out googling - No. найти / определить maybe but not взять.






share|improve this answer



























  • Взять поезд is perfectly OK if you ride the train alone except the driver and your entourage.

    – Anixx
    Aug 2 at 11:35






  • 1





    @Anixx: As Kim Jong Un? :) No, I wouldn't say "он взял поезд до Пекина" even in this case...

    – tum_
    Aug 2 at 13:25


















1














In a casual or semi-casual conversation about math взять can work as a synonym for вычислить. I can easily imagine a math lecture containing phases like




Теперь давайте возьмем от этого выражения логарифм.



Берите от функции квадрат, чтобы в задаче на оптимизацию был подходящий градиент.




Same for взять квадрат, интеграл, сумму, корень, когомологию. Note however that this is not the most formal way to talk, I wouldn't do it in a publication.






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    2 Answers
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    2 Answers
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    active

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    active

    oldest

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    active

    oldest

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    7














    Here's my attempt of an answer (I might have to post it unfinished and come back to it later). I assume that your native language is English.



    Take as well as Russian взять / брать are the examples of highly polisemous verbs.



    From here:




    This paper attempts to show what the definition of a word should look
    like, in order to be of use to AI programs such as analyzers and
    generators. We concentrate on take, a highly polysemous word which
    poses many vexing questions. Why is it that we can say take a
    look
     or take a whiff, but not take a stare or take a smell? Why can a
    photographer take a picture, while an artist cannot take a painting?
    It is clear that there must be several distinct senses of take,
    because the implications are different for different usages. For
    example, when I take a book (or when I am given a book) it is
    felicitous to say I got a book or I have a book. However, if I take it
    in stride, it is not the case that I got it in stride or I have it in
    stride. Faced with these facts about language, our goal is to come up
    with definitions for the various senses of a word...




    And the sets of their meanings/senses in English and Russian overlap only partially.



    Basically, this is the reason why взять производную is ok while взять экзамен is not.
    Even more interestingly - взять такси is perfectly fine while взять автобус/поезд is something you can mostly hear from emigrants (and non-native speakers, of course) who sometimes use calques of the corresponding English/French expressions.



    Now to your list of examples. These days one can use Google as a very convenient tool to look up the frequency of occurrences of a particular expression. This normally gives a good indication of whether a phrase is well-established or not.



    You could easily do this yourself, so I'll be brief:




    Does взять work generally as a synonym for вычислить or применить операцию:




    No.




    прологарифмировать числo = взять логарифм числа?




    Yes (or rather sounds good enough to me, professional mathematicians may disagree).




    возвести число в квадрат = взять квадрат числа?




    No. взять sounds weird.




    возвести обе стороны уравнения в степень = взять степень обеих сторон уравнения?




    No. взять sounds weird.




    извлечь квадратный корень числа = взять квадратный корень числа?




    Hmm... Sounds a bit odd but I'm not sure I'd notice this oddity if I didn't focus on this specifically (as I'm doing now)...




    проинтегрировать функцию = взять интеграл функции?




    Yes.




    вычислить когомологии короткой точной последовательности = взять когомологии короткой точной последовательности?




    You've lost me here :) But intuitively, w/out googling - No. найти / определить maybe but not взять.






    share|improve this answer



























    • Взять поезд is perfectly OK if you ride the train alone except the driver and your entourage.

      – Anixx
      Aug 2 at 11:35






    • 1





      @Anixx: As Kim Jong Un? :) No, I wouldn't say "он взял поезд до Пекина" even in this case...

      – tum_
      Aug 2 at 13:25















    7














    Here's my attempt of an answer (I might have to post it unfinished and come back to it later). I assume that your native language is English.



    Take as well as Russian взять / брать are the examples of highly polisemous verbs.



    From here:




    This paper attempts to show what the definition of a word should look
    like, in order to be of use to AI programs such as analyzers and
    generators. We concentrate on take, a highly polysemous word which
    poses many vexing questions. Why is it that we can say take a
    look
     or take a whiff, but not take a stare or take a smell? Why can a
    photographer take a picture, while an artist cannot take a painting?
    It is clear that there must be several distinct senses of take,
    because the implications are different for different usages. For
    example, when I take a book (or when I am given a book) it is
    felicitous to say I got a book or I have a book. However, if I take it
    in stride, it is not the case that I got it in stride or I have it in
    stride. Faced with these facts about language, our goal is to come up
    with definitions for the various senses of a word...




    And the sets of their meanings/senses in English and Russian overlap only partially.



    Basically, this is the reason why взять производную is ok while взять экзамен is not.
    Even more interestingly - взять такси is perfectly fine while взять автобус/поезд is something you can mostly hear from emigrants (and non-native speakers, of course) who sometimes use calques of the corresponding English/French expressions.



    Now to your list of examples. These days one can use Google as a very convenient tool to look up the frequency of occurrences of a particular expression. This normally gives a good indication of whether a phrase is well-established or not.



    You could easily do this yourself, so I'll be brief:




    Does взять work generally as a synonym for вычислить or применить операцию:




    No.




    прологарифмировать числo = взять логарифм числа?




    Yes (or rather sounds good enough to me, professional mathematicians may disagree).




    возвести число в квадрат = взять квадрат числа?




    No. взять sounds weird.




    возвести обе стороны уравнения в степень = взять степень обеих сторон уравнения?




    No. взять sounds weird.




    извлечь квадратный корень числа = взять квадратный корень числа?




    Hmm... Sounds a bit odd but I'm not sure I'd notice this oddity if I didn't focus on this specifically (as I'm doing now)...




    проинтегрировать функцию = взять интеграл функции?




    Yes.




    вычислить когомологии короткой точной последовательности = взять когомологии короткой точной последовательности?




    You've lost me here :) But intuitively, w/out googling - No. найти / определить maybe but not взять.






    share|improve this answer



























    • Взять поезд is perfectly OK if you ride the train alone except the driver and your entourage.

      – Anixx
      Aug 2 at 11:35






    • 1





      @Anixx: As Kim Jong Un? :) No, I wouldn't say "он взял поезд до Пекина" even in this case...

      – tum_
      Aug 2 at 13:25













    7












    7








    7







    Here's my attempt of an answer (I might have to post it unfinished and come back to it later). I assume that your native language is English.



    Take as well as Russian взять / брать are the examples of highly polisemous verbs.



    From here:




    This paper attempts to show what the definition of a word should look
    like, in order to be of use to AI programs such as analyzers and
    generators. We concentrate on take, a highly polysemous word which
    poses many vexing questions. Why is it that we can say take a
    look
     or take a whiff, but not take a stare or take a smell? Why can a
    photographer take a picture, while an artist cannot take a painting?
    It is clear that there must be several distinct senses of take,
    because the implications are different for different usages. For
    example, when I take a book (or when I am given a book) it is
    felicitous to say I got a book or I have a book. However, if I take it
    in stride, it is not the case that I got it in stride or I have it in
    stride. Faced with these facts about language, our goal is to come up
    with definitions for the various senses of a word...




    And the sets of their meanings/senses in English and Russian overlap only partially.



    Basically, this is the reason why взять производную is ok while взять экзамен is not.
    Even more interestingly - взять такси is perfectly fine while взять автобус/поезд is something you can mostly hear from emigrants (and non-native speakers, of course) who sometimes use calques of the corresponding English/French expressions.



    Now to your list of examples. These days one can use Google as a very convenient tool to look up the frequency of occurrences of a particular expression. This normally gives a good indication of whether a phrase is well-established or not.



    You could easily do this yourself, so I'll be brief:




    Does взять work generally as a synonym for вычислить or применить операцию:




    No.




    прологарифмировать числo = взять логарифм числа?




    Yes (or rather sounds good enough to me, professional mathematicians may disagree).




    возвести число в квадрат = взять квадрат числа?




    No. взять sounds weird.




    возвести обе стороны уравнения в степень = взять степень обеих сторон уравнения?




    No. взять sounds weird.




    извлечь квадратный корень числа = взять квадратный корень числа?




    Hmm... Sounds a bit odd but I'm not sure I'd notice this oddity if I didn't focus on this specifically (as I'm doing now)...




    проинтегрировать функцию = взять интеграл функции?




    Yes.




    вычислить когомологии короткой точной последовательности = взять когомологии короткой точной последовательности?




    You've lost me here :) But intuitively, w/out googling - No. найти / определить maybe but not взять.






    share|improve this answer















    Here's my attempt of an answer (I might have to post it unfinished and come back to it later). I assume that your native language is English.



    Take as well as Russian взять / брать are the examples of highly polisemous verbs.



    From here:




    This paper attempts to show what the definition of a word should look
    like, in order to be of use to AI programs such as analyzers and
    generators. We concentrate on take, a highly polysemous word which
    poses many vexing questions. Why is it that we can say take a
    look
     or take a whiff, but not take a stare or take a smell? Why can a
    photographer take a picture, while an artist cannot take a painting?
    It is clear that there must be several distinct senses of take,
    because the implications are different for different usages. For
    example, when I take a book (or when I am given a book) it is
    felicitous to say I got a book or I have a book. However, if I take it
    in stride, it is not the case that I got it in stride or I have it in
    stride. Faced with these facts about language, our goal is to come up
    with definitions for the various senses of a word...




    And the sets of their meanings/senses in English and Russian overlap only partially.



    Basically, this is the reason why взять производную is ok while взять экзамен is not.
    Even more interestingly - взять такси is perfectly fine while взять автобус/поезд is something you can mostly hear from emigrants (and non-native speakers, of course) who sometimes use calques of the corresponding English/French expressions.



    Now to your list of examples. These days one can use Google as a very convenient tool to look up the frequency of occurrences of a particular expression. This normally gives a good indication of whether a phrase is well-established or not.



    You could easily do this yourself, so I'll be brief:




    Does взять work generally as a synonym for вычислить or применить операцию:




    No.




    прологарифмировать числo = взять логарифм числа?




    Yes (or rather sounds good enough to me, professional mathematicians may disagree).




    возвести число в квадрат = взять квадрат числа?




    No. взять sounds weird.




    возвести обе стороны уравнения в степень = взять степень обеих сторон уравнения?




    No. взять sounds weird.




    извлечь квадратный корень числа = взять квадратный корень числа?




    Hmm... Sounds a bit odd but I'm not sure I'd notice this oddity if I didn't focus on this specifically (as I'm doing now)...




    проинтегрировать функцию = взять интеграл функции?




    Yes.




    вычислить когомологии короткой точной последовательности = взять когомологии короткой точной последовательности?




    You've lost me here :) But intuitively, w/out googling - No. найти / определить maybe but not взять.







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    edited yesterday









    KCd

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    answered Aug 1 at 5:49









    tum_tum_

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    • Взять поезд is perfectly OK if you ride the train alone except the driver and your entourage.

      – Anixx
      Aug 2 at 11:35






    • 1





      @Anixx: As Kim Jong Un? :) No, I wouldn't say "он взял поезд до Пекина" even in this case...

      – tum_
      Aug 2 at 13:25

















    • Взять поезд is perfectly OK if you ride the train alone except the driver and your entourage.

      – Anixx
      Aug 2 at 11:35






    • 1





      @Anixx: As Kim Jong Un? :) No, I wouldn't say "он взял поезд до Пекина" even in this case...

      – tum_
      Aug 2 at 13:25
















    Взять поезд is perfectly OK if you ride the train alone except the driver and your entourage.

    – Anixx
    Aug 2 at 11:35





    Взять поезд is perfectly OK if you ride the train alone except the driver and your entourage.

    – Anixx
    Aug 2 at 11:35




    1




    1





    @Anixx: As Kim Jong Un? :) No, I wouldn't say "он взял поезд до Пекина" even in this case...

    – tum_
    Aug 2 at 13:25





    @Anixx: As Kim Jong Un? :) No, I wouldn't say "он взял поезд до Пекина" even in this case...

    – tum_
    Aug 2 at 13:25













    1














    In a casual or semi-casual conversation about math взять can work as a synonym for вычислить. I can easily imagine a math lecture containing phases like




    Теперь давайте возьмем от этого выражения логарифм.



    Берите от функции квадрат, чтобы в задаче на оптимизацию был подходящий градиент.




    Same for взять квадрат, интеграл, сумму, корень, когомологию. Note however that this is not the most formal way to talk, I wouldn't do it in a publication.






    share|improve this answer





























      1














      In a casual or semi-casual conversation about math взять can work as a synonym for вычислить. I can easily imagine a math lecture containing phases like




      Теперь давайте возьмем от этого выражения логарифм.



      Берите от функции квадрат, чтобы в задаче на оптимизацию был подходящий градиент.




      Same for взять квадрат, интеграл, сумму, корень, когомологию. Note however that this is not the most formal way to talk, I wouldn't do it in a publication.






      share|improve this answer



























        1












        1








        1







        In a casual or semi-casual conversation about math взять can work as a synonym for вычислить. I can easily imagine a math lecture containing phases like




        Теперь давайте возьмем от этого выражения логарифм.



        Берите от функции квадрат, чтобы в задаче на оптимизацию был подходящий градиент.




        Same for взять квадрат, интеграл, сумму, корень, когомологию. Note however that this is not the most formal way to talk, I wouldn't do it in a publication.






        share|improve this answer













        In a casual or semi-casual conversation about math взять can work as a synonym for вычислить. I can easily imagine a math lecture containing phases like




        Теперь давайте возьмем от этого выражения логарифм.



        Берите от функции квадрат, чтобы в задаче на оптимизацию был подходящий градиент.




        Same for взять квадрат, интеграл, сумму, корень, когомологию. Note however that this is not the most formal way to talk, I wouldn't do it in a publication.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered Aug 1 at 8:34









        Mikhail IvanushkoMikhail Ivanushko

        712 bronze badges




        712 bronze badges






























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