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How can I get a refund from a seller who only accepts Zelle?


Comparison of cash concessions vs lower home purchase price?Can I get a rebate after using my HSA?How to cancel an online order and get a refund back from a U.S. service provider?How can I buy a MasterCard/Visa gift card in the US using European MasterCard/Visa?How to get money transferred from the United States to India?Get money from USA to IndiaUS Citizen sending money overseasHow can banks pay interest on money they borrow from the FED?How to shop for mortgage rates ?Buying a home - brokerage fee






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








22















I am wanting to purchase an item and the seller only accepts Zelle. If I send a payment and do not get my item, is there a way to get my money back?










share|improve this question



















  • 6





    How did you find the seller? The marketplace will often carry its own guarantee of a complete order.

    – JoeTaxpayer
    May 18 at 17:11






  • 1





    Have the seller send the item upfront...

    – Stian Yttervik
    May 18 at 22:00






  • 6





    @JoeTaxpayer: In my experience, the marketplaces that provide buyer protection are the same ones that perform payment processing. A payment made via Zelle is certainly outside any marketplace, and there won't be any guarantees for orders placed circumventing the marketplace, even if the seller has a listing in the marketplace and even if that's the method of initial contact.

    – Ben Voigt
    May 18 at 22:57






  • 2





    @StianYttervik Unlikely that any seller would accept that. Transactions aren't symmetric: the seller can develop a reputation for reliability but there's much less scope for a buyer to do that. Sellers have to deal with total strangers, but it's expected that buyers will have to do some research.

    – David Richerby
    May 19 at 15:11






  • 4





    Zelle is not a payment method, it's a money-sending method, good for sending money to your relatives and friends.

    – barbecue
    May 20 at 20:00


















22















I am wanting to purchase an item and the seller only accepts Zelle. If I send a payment and do not get my item, is there a way to get my money back?










share|improve this question



















  • 6





    How did you find the seller? The marketplace will often carry its own guarantee of a complete order.

    – JoeTaxpayer
    May 18 at 17:11






  • 1





    Have the seller send the item upfront...

    – Stian Yttervik
    May 18 at 22:00






  • 6





    @JoeTaxpayer: In my experience, the marketplaces that provide buyer protection are the same ones that perform payment processing. A payment made via Zelle is certainly outside any marketplace, and there won't be any guarantees for orders placed circumventing the marketplace, even if the seller has a listing in the marketplace and even if that's the method of initial contact.

    – Ben Voigt
    May 18 at 22:57






  • 2





    @StianYttervik Unlikely that any seller would accept that. Transactions aren't symmetric: the seller can develop a reputation for reliability but there's much less scope for a buyer to do that. Sellers have to deal with total strangers, but it's expected that buyers will have to do some research.

    – David Richerby
    May 19 at 15:11






  • 4





    Zelle is not a payment method, it's a money-sending method, good for sending money to your relatives and friends.

    – barbecue
    May 20 at 20:00














22












22








22


1






I am wanting to purchase an item and the seller only accepts Zelle. If I send a payment and do not get my item, is there a way to get my money back?










share|improve this question
















I am wanting to purchase an item and the seller only accepts Zelle. If I send a payment and do not get my item, is there a way to get my money back?







united-states payment






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited May 20 at 17:04









Freiheit

4,51711935




4,51711935










asked May 18 at 15:38









JoyJoy

11413




11413







  • 6





    How did you find the seller? The marketplace will often carry its own guarantee of a complete order.

    – JoeTaxpayer
    May 18 at 17:11






  • 1





    Have the seller send the item upfront...

    – Stian Yttervik
    May 18 at 22:00






  • 6





    @JoeTaxpayer: In my experience, the marketplaces that provide buyer protection are the same ones that perform payment processing. A payment made via Zelle is certainly outside any marketplace, and there won't be any guarantees for orders placed circumventing the marketplace, even if the seller has a listing in the marketplace and even if that's the method of initial contact.

    – Ben Voigt
    May 18 at 22:57






  • 2





    @StianYttervik Unlikely that any seller would accept that. Transactions aren't symmetric: the seller can develop a reputation for reliability but there's much less scope for a buyer to do that. Sellers have to deal with total strangers, but it's expected that buyers will have to do some research.

    – David Richerby
    May 19 at 15:11






  • 4





    Zelle is not a payment method, it's a money-sending method, good for sending money to your relatives and friends.

    – barbecue
    May 20 at 20:00













  • 6





    How did you find the seller? The marketplace will often carry its own guarantee of a complete order.

    – JoeTaxpayer
    May 18 at 17:11






  • 1





    Have the seller send the item upfront...

    – Stian Yttervik
    May 18 at 22:00






  • 6





    @JoeTaxpayer: In my experience, the marketplaces that provide buyer protection are the same ones that perform payment processing. A payment made via Zelle is certainly outside any marketplace, and there won't be any guarantees for orders placed circumventing the marketplace, even if the seller has a listing in the marketplace and even if that's the method of initial contact.

    – Ben Voigt
    May 18 at 22:57






  • 2





    @StianYttervik Unlikely that any seller would accept that. Transactions aren't symmetric: the seller can develop a reputation for reliability but there's much less scope for a buyer to do that. Sellers have to deal with total strangers, but it's expected that buyers will have to do some research.

    – David Richerby
    May 19 at 15:11






  • 4





    Zelle is not a payment method, it's a money-sending method, good for sending money to your relatives and friends.

    – barbecue
    May 20 at 20:00








6




6





How did you find the seller? The marketplace will often carry its own guarantee of a complete order.

– JoeTaxpayer
May 18 at 17:11





How did you find the seller? The marketplace will often carry its own guarantee of a complete order.

– JoeTaxpayer
May 18 at 17:11




1




1





Have the seller send the item upfront...

– Stian Yttervik
May 18 at 22:00





Have the seller send the item upfront...

– Stian Yttervik
May 18 at 22:00




6




6





@JoeTaxpayer: In my experience, the marketplaces that provide buyer protection are the same ones that perform payment processing. A payment made via Zelle is certainly outside any marketplace, and there won't be any guarantees for orders placed circumventing the marketplace, even if the seller has a listing in the marketplace and even if that's the method of initial contact.

– Ben Voigt
May 18 at 22:57





@JoeTaxpayer: In my experience, the marketplaces that provide buyer protection are the same ones that perform payment processing. A payment made via Zelle is certainly outside any marketplace, and there won't be any guarantees for orders placed circumventing the marketplace, even if the seller has a listing in the marketplace and even if that's the method of initial contact.

– Ben Voigt
May 18 at 22:57




2




2





@StianYttervik Unlikely that any seller would accept that. Transactions aren't symmetric: the seller can develop a reputation for reliability but there's much less scope for a buyer to do that. Sellers have to deal with total strangers, but it's expected that buyers will have to do some research.

– David Richerby
May 19 at 15:11





@StianYttervik Unlikely that any seller would accept that. Transactions aren't symmetric: the seller can develop a reputation for reliability but there's much less scope for a buyer to do that. Sellers have to deal with total strangers, but it's expected that buyers will have to do some research.

– David Richerby
May 19 at 15:11




4




4





Zelle is not a payment method, it's a money-sending method, good for sending money to your relatives and friends.

– barbecue
May 20 at 20:00






Zelle is not a payment method, it's a money-sending method, good for sending money to your relatives and friends.

– barbecue
May 20 at 20:00











5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes


















71














If the seller only accepts a payment method that doesn't allow you to get your money back, then there is a reason for that. There is a much higher likelihood that something happens where you'd want a refund, and you won't get one. So I would stay well away from this.






share|improve this answer






























    57














    The Zelle FAQ article "I’m unsure about using Zelle® to pay someone I don’t know. What should I do?" can be sumarized in three words: "Use something else".




    Zelle is a great way to send money to friends, family or others you trust such as your personal trainer, babysitter, or a neighbor. If you don’t know the person, or aren’t sure you will get what you paid for (for example, items bought from an on-line bidding or sales site), we recommend you do not use Zelle for these types of transactions, which are potentially high risk.



    Zelle does not offer a protection program for any authorized payments made with Zelle - for example, if you make a purchase using Zelle, but you do not receive the item or the item is not as described or as you expected.




    If you get scammed, they won't help you in any way to get a refund. Reclaiming the money would be your own responsibility.






    share|improve this answer




















    • 1





      I think the key take away is that you should treat Zelle as cash. If you are not comfortable handling a transaction using cash, then you should not consider Zelle either.

      – Rich
      May 21 at 13:13


















    19














    Zelle/Venmo do not protect you in this situation, so you'd likely have to resort to the courts to compel re-payment from the seller. Small-claims court can be fairly reasonable, but is not always an option if the seller is in a different state. Costs can quickly add up to more than it's worth, though if successful you might also recoup legal costs from the seller.



    If you don't trust the seller stick with payment methods that offer protection, if they are hesitant due to the extra fees associated with other methods then perhaps you would offer to pay a little extra.






    share|improve this answer






























      14














      Small claims court. Which will probably cost you more than the cost of the item, and definitely will take long enough for the fraudster to disappear with your money.



      You would have no basis to request a reversal of a Zelle transfer, because when you make a Zelle transfer you have to agree to treat the payment as a gift not as a payment for goods. Failure to deliver the goods is not any concern of Zelle or the banks participating in using Zelle for transfers.






      share|improve this answer






























        3














        "Gifts" as a payment method is typically used in case of dubious transactions. Either the seller tries to avoid paying duties and taxes, or they are trying to avoid providing you with something they are obliged to provide (like mandatory warranty), or perhaps they are selling you an item which cannot be sold legally. That is, assuming that they don't plan to simply disappear as soon as they get your money.



        A wise piece of advice would be to stay away.






        share|improve this answer




















        • 1





          Zelle does not imply a gift. One term used for these services is quasi-cash transaction.

          – user71659
          May 20 at 22:19












        • @user71659 Technically true, but it may actually be that the OP are thinking they are buying something, when in fact they are making a gift and expect a gift in return. In many cases claiming that the transaction was an actual gift is the main defence the other party will use if you try to sue them. And yet another reason the OP should stay away is because disguising a purchase as a gift is a kind of fraud. AFAIK, Zelle doesn't allow any kind of business transactions for customers with debit cards other than gifts.

          – Dmitry Grigoryev
          May 21 at 8:31











        Your Answer








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        5 Answers
        5






        active

        oldest

        votes








        5 Answers
        5






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        71














        If the seller only accepts a payment method that doesn't allow you to get your money back, then there is a reason for that. There is a much higher likelihood that something happens where you'd want a refund, and you won't get one. So I would stay well away from this.






        share|improve this answer



























          71














          If the seller only accepts a payment method that doesn't allow you to get your money back, then there is a reason for that. There is a much higher likelihood that something happens where you'd want a refund, and you won't get one. So I would stay well away from this.






          share|improve this answer

























            71












            71








            71







            If the seller only accepts a payment method that doesn't allow you to get your money back, then there is a reason for that. There is a much higher likelihood that something happens where you'd want a refund, and you won't get one. So I would stay well away from this.






            share|improve this answer













            If the seller only accepts a payment method that doesn't allow you to get your money back, then there is a reason for that. There is a much higher likelihood that something happens where you'd want a refund, and you won't get one. So I would stay well away from this.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered May 18 at 16:01









            gnasher729gnasher729

            11k31732




            11k31732























                57














                The Zelle FAQ article "I’m unsure about using Zelle® to pay someone I don’t know. What should I do?" can be sumarized in three words: "Use something else".




                Zelle is a great way to send money to friends, family or others you trust such as your personal trainer, babysitter, or a neighbor. If you don’t know the person, or aren’t sure you will get what you paid for (for example, items bought from an on-line bidding or sales site), we recommend you do not use Zelle for these types of transactions, which are potentially high risk.



                Zelle does not offer a protection program for any authorized payments made with Zelle - for example, if you make a purchase using Zelle, but you do not receive the item or the item is not as described or as you expected.




                If you get scammed, they won't help you in any way to get a refund. Reclaiming the money would be your own responsibility.






                share|improve this answer




















                • 1





                  I think the key take away is that you should treat Zelle as cash. If you are not comfortable handling a transaction using cash, then you should not consider Zelle either.

                  – Rich
                  May 21 at 13:13















                57














                The Zelle FAQ article "I’m unsure about using Zelle® to pay someone I don’t know. What should I do?" can be sumarized in three words: "Use something else".




                Zelle is a great way to send money to friends, family or others you trust such as your personal trainer, babysitter, or a neighbor. If you don’t know the person, or aren’t sure you will get what you paid for (for example, items bought from an on-line bidding or sales site), we recommend you do not use Zelle for these types of transactions, which are potentially high risk.



                Zelle does not offer a protection program for any authorized payments made with Zelle - for example, if you make a purchase using Zelle, but you do not receive the item or the item is not as described or as you expected.




                If you get scammed, they won't help you in any way to get a refund. Reclaiming the money would be your own responsibility.






                share|improve this answer




















                • 1





                  I think the key take away is that you should treat Zelle as cash. If you are not comfortable handling a transaction using cash, then you should not consider Zelle either.

                  – Rich
                  May 21 at 13:13













                57












                57








                57







                The Zelle FAQ article "I’m unsure about using Zelle® to pay someone I don’t know. What should I do?" can be sumarized in three words: "Use something else".




                Zelle is a great way to send money to friends, family or others you trust such as your personal trainer, babysitter, or a neighbor. If you don’t know the person, or aren’t sure you will get what you paid for (for example, items bought from an on-line bidding or sales site), we recommend you do not use Zelle for these types of transactions, which are potentially high risk.



                Zelle does not offer a protection program for any authorized payments made with Zelle - for example, if you make a purchase using Zelle, but you do not receive the item or the item is not as described or as you expected.




                If you get scammed, they won't help you in any way to get a refund. Reclaiming the money would be your own responsibility.






                share|improve this answer















                The Zelle FAQ article "I’m unsure about using Zelle® to pay someone I don’t know. What should I do?" can be sumarized in three words: "Use something else".




                Zelle is a great way to send money to friends, family or others you trust such as your personal trainer, babysitter, or a neighbor. If you don’t know the person, or aren’t sure you will get what you paid for (for example, items bought from an on-line bidding or sales site), we recommend you do not use Zelle for these types of transactions, which are potentially high risk.



                Zelle does not offer a protection program for any authorized payments made with Zelle - for example, if you make a purchase using Zelle, but you do not receive the item or the item is not as described or as you expected.




                If you get scammed, they won't help you in any way to get a refund. Reclaiming the money would be your own responsibility.







                share|improve this answer














                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited May 20 at 14:26

























                answered May 20 at 13:36









                PhilippPhilipp

                8,77022031




                8,77022031







                • 1





                  I think the key take away is that you should treat Zelle as cash. If you are not comfortable handling a transaction using cash, then you should not consider Zelle either.

                  – Rich
                  May 21 at 13:13












                • 1





                  I think the key take away is that you should treat Zelle as cash. If you are not comfortable handling a transaction using cash, then you should not consider Zelle either.

                  – Rich
                  May 21 at 13:13







                1




                1





                I think the key take away is that you should treat Zelle as cash. If you are not comfortable handling a transaction using cash, then you should not consider Zelle either.

                – Rich
                May 21 at 13:13





                I think the key take away is that you should treat Zelle as cash. If you are not comfortable handling a transaction using cash, then you should not consider Zelle either.

                – Rich
                May 21 at 13:13











                19














                Zelle/Venmo do not protect you in this situation, so you'd likely have to resort to the courts to compel re-payment from the seller. Small-claims court can be fairly reasonable, but is not always an option if the seller is in a different state. Costs can quickly add up to more than it's worth, though if successful you might also recoup legal costs from the seller.



                If you don't trust the seller stick with payment methods that offer protection, if they are hesitant due to the extra fees associated with other methods then perhaps you would offer to pay a little extra.






                share|improve this answer



























                  19














                  Zelle/Venmo do not protect you in this situation, so you'd likely have to resort to the courts to compel re-payment from the seller. Small-claims court can be fairly reasonable, but is not always an option if the seller is in a different state. Costs can quickly add up to more than it's worth, though if successful you might also recoup legal costs from the seller.



                  If you don't trust the seller stick with payment methods that offer protection, if they are hesitant due to the extra fees associated with other methods then perhaps you would offer to pay a little extra.






                  share|improve this answer

























                    19












                    19








                    19







                    Zelle/Venmo do not protect you in this situation, so you'd likely have to resort to the courts to compel re-payment from the seller. Small-claims court can be fairly reasonable, but is not always an option if the seller is in a different state. Costs can quickly add up to more than it's worth, though if successful you might also recoup legal costs from the seller.



                    If you don't trust the seller stick with payment methods that offer protection, if they are hesitant due to the extra fees associated with other methods then perhaps you would offer to pay a little extra.






                    share|improve this answer













                    Zelle/Venmo do not protect you in this situation, so you'd likely have to resort to the courts to compel re-payment from the seller. Small-claims court can be fairly reasonable, but is not always an option if the seller is in a different state. Costs can quickly add up to more than it's worth, though if successful you might also recoup legal costs from the seller.



                    If you don't trust the seller stick with payment methods that offer protection, if they are hesitant due to the extra fees associated with other methods then perhaps you would offer to pay a little extra.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered May 18 at 15:53









                    Hart COHart CO

                    37.7k691106




                    37.7k691106





















                        14














                        Small claims court. Which will probably cost you more than the cost of the item, and definitely will take long enough for the fraudster to disappear with your money.



                        You would have no basis to request a reversal of a Zelle transfer, because when you make a Zelle transfer you have to agree to treat the payment as a gift not as a payment for goods. Failure to deliver the goods is not any concern of Zelle or the banks participating in using Zelle for transfers.






                        share|improve this answer



























                          14














                          Small claims court. Which will probably cost you more than the cost of the item, and definitely will take long enough for the fraudster to disappear with your money.



                          You would have no basis to request a reversal of a Zelle transfer, because when you make a Zelle transfer you have to agree to treat the payment as a gift not as a payment for goods. Failure to deliver the goods is not any concern of Zelle or the banks participating in using Zelle for transfers.






                          share|improve this answer

























                            14












                            14








                            14







                            Small claims court. Which will probably cost you more than the cost of the item, and definitely will take long enough for the fraudster to disappear with your money.



                            You would have no basis to request a reversal of a Zelle transfer, because when you make a Zelle transfer you have to agree to treat the payment as a gift not as a payment for goods. Failure to deliver the goods is not any concern of Zelle or the banks participating in using Zelle for transfers.






                            share|improve this answer













                            Small claims court. Which will probably cost you more than the cost of the item, and definitely will take long enough for the fraudster to disappear with your money.



                            You would have no basis to request a reversal of a Zelle transfer, because when you make a Zelle transfer you have to agree to treat the payment as a gift not as a payment for goods. Failure to deliver the goods is not any concern of Zelle or the banks participating in using Zelle for transfers.







                            share|improve this answer












                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer










                            answered May 18 at 15:50









                            Ben VoigtBen Voigt

                            4,25421723




                            4,25421723





















                                3














                                "Gifts" as a payment method is typically used in case of dubious transactions. Either the seller tries to avoid paying duties and taxes, or they are trying to avoid providing you with something they are obliged to provide (like mandatory warranty), or perhaps they are selling you an item which cannot be sold legally. That is, assuming that they don't plan to simply disappear as soon as they get your money.



                                A wise piece of advice would be to stay away.






                                share|improve this answer




















                                • 1





                                  Zelle does not imply a gift. One term used for these services is quasi-cash transaction.

                                  – user71659
                                  May 20 at 22:19












                                • @user71659 Technically true, but it may actually be that the OP are thinking they are buying something, when in fact they are making a gift and expect a gift in return. In many cases claiming that the transaction was an actual gift is the main defence the other party will use if you try to sue them. And yet another reason the OP should stay away is because disguising a purchase as a gift is a kind of fraud. AFAIK, Zelle doesn't allow any kind of business transactions for customers with debit cards other than gifts.

                                  – Dmitry Grigoryev
                                  May 21 at 8:31















                                3














                                "Gifts" as a payment method is typically used in case of dubious transactions. Either the seller tries to avoid paying duties and taxes, or they are trying to avoid providing you with something they are obliged to provide (like mandatory warranty), or perhaps they are selling you an item which cannot be sold legally. That is, assuming that they don't plan to simply disappear as soon as they get your money.



                                A wise piece of advice would be to stay away.






                                share|improve this answer




















                                • 1





                                  Zelle does not imply a gift. One term used for these services is quasi-cash transaction.

                                  – user71659
                                  May 20 at 22:19












                                • @user71659 Technically true, but it may actually be that the OP are thinking they are buying something, when in fact they are making a gift and expect a gift in return. In many cases claiming that the transaction was an actual gift is the main defence the other party will use if you try to sue them. And yet another reason the OP should stay away is because disguising a purchase as a gift is a kind of fraud. AFAIK, Zelle doesn't allow any kind of business transactions for customers with debit cards other than gifts.

                                  – Dmitry Grigoryev
                                  May 21 at 8:31













                                3












                                3








                                3







                                "Gifts" as a payment method is typically used in case of dubious transactions. Either the seller tries to avoid paying duties and taxes, or they are trying to avoid providing you with something they are obliged to provide (like mandatory warranty), or perhaps they are selling you an item which cannot be sold legally. That is, assuming that they don't plan to simply disappear as soon as they get your money.



                                A wise piece of advice would be to stay away.






                                share|improve this answer















                                "Gifts" as a payment method is typically used in case of dubious transactions. Either the seller tries to avoid paying duties and taxes, or they are trying to avoid providing you with something they are obliged to provide (like mandatory warranty), or perhaps they are selling you an item which cannot be sold legally. That is, assuming that they don't plan to simply disappear as soon as they get your money.



                                A wise piece of advice would be to stay away.







                                share|improve this answer














                                share|improve this answer



                                share|improve this answer








                                edited May 21 at 8:18

























                                answered May 20 at 13:22









                                Dmitry GrigoryevDmitry Grigoryev

                                980314




                                980314







                                • 1





                                  Zelle does not imply a gift. One term used for these services is quasi-cash transaction.

                                  – user71659
                                  May 20 at 22:19












                                • @user71659 Technically true, but it may actually be that the OP are thinking they are buying something, when in fact they are making a gift and expect a gift in return. In many cases claiming that the transaction was an actual gift is the main defence the other party will use if you try to sue them. And yet another reason the OP should stay away is because disguising a purchase as a gift is a kind of fraud. AFAIK, Zelle doesn't allow any kind of business transactions for customers with debit cards other than gifts.

                                  – Dmitry Grigoryev
                                  May 21 at 8:31












                                • 1





                                  Zelle does not imply a gift. One term used for these services is quasi-cash transaction.

                                  – user71659
                                  May 20 at 22:19












                                • @user71659 Technically true, but it may actually be that the OP are thinking they are buying something, when in fact they are making a gift and expect a gift in return. In many cases claiming that the transaction was an actual gift is the main defence the other party will use if you try to sue them. And yet another reason the OP should stay away is because disguising a purchase as a gift is a kind of fraud. AFAIK, Zelle doesn't allow any kind of business transactions for customers with debit cards other than gifts.

                                  – Dmitry Grigoryev
                                  May 21 at 8:31







                                1




                                1





                                Zelle does not imply a gift. One term used for these services is quasi-cash transaction.

                                – user71659
                                May 20 at 22:19






                                Zelle does not imply a gift. One term used for these services is quasi-cash transaction.

                                – user71659
                                May 20 at 22:19














                                @user71659 Technically true, but it may actually be that the OP are thinking they are buying something, when in fact they are making a gift and expect a gift in return. In many cases claiming that the transaction was an actual gift is the main defence the other party will use if you try to sue them. And yet another reason the OP should stay away is because disguising a purchase as a gift is a kind of fraud. AFAIK, Zelle doesn't allow any kind of business transactions for customers with debit cards other than gifts.

                                – Dmitry Grigoryev
                                May 21 at 8:31





                                @user71659 Technically true, but it may actually be that the OP are thinking they are buying something, when in fact they are making a gift and expect a gift in return. In many cases claiming that the transaction was an actual gift is the main defence the other party will use if you try to sue them. And yet another reason the OP should stay away is because disguising a purchase as a gift is a kind of fraud. AFAIK, Zelle doesn't allow any kind of business transactions for customers with debit cards other than gifts.

                                – Dmitry Grigoryev
                                May 21 at 8:31

















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