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Should the Torah be covered or uncovered during the Aliyah blessings?


The, um, Seder of the SederResponding “Amen” to fanciful blessings and wishesStrike chest in “S'lach lanu” on Shabas?use the bathroom as a changing roomShould one make a bracha on food if only a child is eating?What is the source for reciting blessings on the haftarah?Are the passages following the blessings over the Torah always mandatory before prayer?What happens with the blessings if a mute is called for a Torah aliyah?Is it better to say a blessing quietly or loudly?Should one relight the Havdalah candle that went out in the middle of Havdalah?













6















Some feel that if the Torah is not being read, then it should be covered, while some feel that since the blessing is on this Torah, it should be uncovered during the blessings (but not for the call to aliyah or mi sh'berach).



Leaving the Torah uncovered during the first blessing also has the potential of reducing the time between the blessing and the reader's "amen" (hefsek) since the Torah does not have to be uncovered or the place found again.



We are curious to hear the understanding and practices around this aspect of the blessings over the Torah.










share|improve this question


























    6















    Some feel that if the Torah is not being read, then it should be covered, while some feel that since the blessing is on this Torah, it should be uncovered during the blessings (but not for the call to aliyah or mi sh'berach).



    Leaving the Torah uncovered during the first blessing also has the potential of reducing the time between the blessing and the reader's "amen" (hefsek) since the Torah does not have to be uncovered or the place found again.



    We are curious to hear the understanding and practices around this aspect of the blessings over the Torah.










    share|improve this question
























      6












      6








      6


      1






      Some feel that if the Torah is not being read, then it should be covered, while some feel that since the blessing is on this Torah, it should be uncovered during the blessings (but not for the call to aliyah or mi sh'berach).



      Leaving the Torah uncovered during the first blessing also has the potential of reducing the time between the blessing and the reader's "amen" (hefsek) since the Torah does not have to be uncovered or the place found again.



      We are curious to hear the understanding and practices around this aspect of the blessings over the Torah.










      share|improve this question














      Some feel that if the Torah is not being read, then it should be covered, while some feel that since the blessing is on this Torah, it should be uncovered during the blessings (but not for the call to aliyah or mi sh'berach).



      Leaving the Torah uncovered during the first blessing also has the potential of reducing the time between the blessing and the reader's "amen" (hefsek) since the Torah does not have to be uncovered or the place found again.



      We are curious to hear the understanding and practices around this aspect of the blessings over the Torah.







      halacha minhag blessing






      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question











      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question










      asked Jun 24 at 3:42









      Dave KDave K

      461 bronze badge




      461 bronze badge




















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          4














          To be clear you are asking about covering the Torah while saying the blessings (and not at any other time).



          SA O Ch 139 (4) says:




          Everybody who reads (should) bless before it and after it. They should
          open the Torah scroll before they bless and see the verse they need to
          start with and then they bless and then read the Torah and then roll
          it up and bless (the second blessing). Gloss: and at the time that
          they bless the first blessing they should turn their heads to the side
          so that it does not appear that they are reading the blessing from the
          Torah (The Kol Bo) and it seems to me that they should turn to the
          left.




          On the words “and then they bless” Mishna Berura says:




          ר"ל שאין צריך לגלול הס"ת בשעת ברכתו וליכא למיחש שמא יאמרו ברכות כתובות
          בתורה



          That means that there is no need to roll the sefer closed at the time
          of his blessing and one does not need to suspect that people will say
          that the blessings are written in the Torah




          but for the blessing after the reading the Mishna Berura says that the sefer should be closed up.



          The Biur Halocho says:




          ודע שיש פוסקים שסוברים דאם רוצה לגלול ואח"כ לברך עדיף טפי אלא דהלכה
          כר' יהודה שאינו מחוייב לעשות כן ועפ"ז נוהגין איזה מקומות שרואין
          וגוללין ואח"כ מברכין ונהרא נהרא ופשטיה [אחרונים]:



          and you should know that there are poskim who hold that it is better
          if one closes the sefer and then makes the first blessings. But the
          halocho is like Rebbi Yehudah that one is not obliged to do this. Thus
          some places have the custom to close the sefer before making the
          blessings and every place should follow its own custom.




          It is thus clear that there is no requirement to cover the sefer during the blessings before the reading and the main law is that the sefer does not even need to be rolled closed during the first blessings.



          I have no source for whether or not to cover the sefer for the concluding blessing.






          share|improve this answer























          • I have heard from my rav as well as another that covering during the final blessing becomes a "battle" between tircha detzibur and kavod hatorah. Thus, during weekdays, when one aliyah immediately follows the next, the torah is not covered b/c of tircha. On Shabbat & Yom Tov, when we make mi sheberach for the olim, it is covered, as this is considered a longer span to leave the Torah uncovered. Of course, it does put to question why not wait until after the blessing is finished to put on the cover? I have no answer for that.

            – DanF
            Jun 24 at 14:44












          • excellent thank you.

            – Avrohom Yitzchok
            Jun 24 at 15:32


















          3














          The Shulchan Aruch (149:5) presents two opinions regarding general covering of the Torah when not being read. To cover with a cloth, or to roll closed.




          נהגו לכסות הכתב בסודר בין גברא לגברא (ובמדינות אלו נהגו שהיא מגוללת בין גברא לגברא וכן עיקר):




          Rama (149:4) writes that one should turn aside his face while making the blessing. Other commentaries discuss the old concern (Talmud, Megillah 32a) that others may perceive that the blessings are written in the scroll itself.




          הגה ובשעה שמברך ברכה ראשונה יהפוך פניו אל הצד שלא יהא נראה כמברך מן התורה [כל בו] ונראה לי שיהפוך פניו לצד שמאלו:







          share|improve this answer























          • The first part of your answer deals with the situation בין גברא לגברא i.e. between aliyos and is not relevant to the question. The second part of your answer does not explicitly address whether the scroll is covered although it does imply that it is not covered because it says יהפוך פניו אל הצד שלא יהא נראה כמברך מן התורה he should turn his face to the side so that it does not look like he is reading the blessings form the scroll.

            – Avrohom Yitzchok
            Jun 24 at 10:58











          • The question is rather unclear @AvrohomYitzchok

            – Dr. Shmuel
            Jun 24 at 10:59




















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes








          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          4














          To be clear you are asking about covering the Torah while saying the blessings (and not at any other time).



          SA O Ch 139 (4) says:




          Everybody who reads (should) bless before it and after it. They should
          open the Torah scroll before they bless and see the verse they need to
          start with and then they bless and then read the Torah and then roll
          it up and bless (the second blessing). Gloss: and at the time that
          they bless the first blessing they should turn their heads to the side
          so that it does not appear that they are reading the blessing from the
          Torah (The Kol Bo) and it seems to me that they should turn to the
          left.




          On the words “and then they bless” Mishna Berura says:




          ר"ל שאין צריך לגלול הס"ת בשעת ברכתו וליכא למיחש שמא יאמרו ברכות כתובות
          בתורה



          That means that there is no need to roll the sefer closed at the time
          of his blessing and one does not need to suspect that people will say
          that the blessings are written in the Torah




          but for the blessing after the reading the Mishna Berura says that the sefer should be closed up.



          The Biur Halocho says:




          ודע שיש פוסקים שסוברים דאם רוצה לגלול ואח"כ לברך עדיף טפי אלא דהלכה
          כר' יהודה שאינו מחוייב לעשות כן ועפ"ז נוהגין איזה מקומות שרואין
          וגוללין ואח"כ מברכין ונהרא נהרא ופשטיה [אחרונים]:



          and you should know that there are poskim who hold that it is better
          if one closes the sefer and then makes the first blessings. But the
          halocho is like Rebbi Yehudah that one is not obliged to do this. Thus
          some places have the custom to close the sefer before making the
          blessings and every place should follow its own custom.




          It is thus clear that there is no requirement to cover the sefer during the blessings before the reading and the main law is that the sefer does not even need to be rolled closed during the first blessings.



          I have no source for whether or not to cover the sefer for the concluding blessing.






          share|improve this answer























          • I have heard from my rav as well as another that covering during the final blessing becomes a "battle" between tircha detzibur and kavod hatorah. Thus, during weekdays, when one aliyah immediately follows the next, the torah is not covered b/c of tircha. On Shabbat & Yom Tov, when we make mi sheberach for the olim, it is covered, as this is considered a longer span to leave the Torah uncovered. Of course, it does put to question why not wait until after the blessing is finished to put on the cover? I have no answer for that.

            – DanF
            Jun 24 at 14:44












          • excellent thank you.

            – Avrohom Yitzchok
            Jun 24 at 15:32















          4














          To be clear you are asking about covering the Torah while saying the blessings (and not at any other time).



          SA O Ch 139 (4) says:




          Everybody who reads (should) bless before it and after it. They should
          open the Torah scroll before they bless and see the verse they need to
          start with and then they bless and then read the Torah and then roll
          it up and bless (the second blessing). Gloss: and at the time that
          they bless the first blessing they should turn their heads to the side
          so that it does not appear that they are reading the blessing from the
          Torah (The Kol Bo) and it seems to me that they should turn to the
          left.




          On the words “and then they bless” Mishna Berura says:




          ר"ל שאין צריך לגלול הס"ת בשעת ברכתו וליכא למיחש שמא יאמרו ברכות כתובות
          בתורה



          That means that there is no need to roll the sefer closed at the time
          of his blessing and one does not need to suspect that people will say
          that the blessings are written in the Torah




          but for the blessing after the reading the Mishna Berura says that the sefer should be closed up.



          The Biur Halocho says:




          ודע שיש פוסקים שסוברים דאם רוצה לגלול ואח"כ לברך עדיף טפי אלא דהלכה
          כר' יהודה שאינו מחוייב לעשות כן ועפ"ז נוהגין איזה מקומות שרואין
          וגוללין ואח"כ מברכין ונהרא נהרא ופשטיה [אחרונים]:



          and you should know that there are poskim who hold that it is better
          if one closes the sefer and then makes the first blessings. But the
          halocho is like Rebbi Yehudah that one is not obliged to do this. Thus
          some places have the custom to close the sefer before making the
          blessings and every place should follow its own custom.




          It is thus clear that there is no requirement to cover the sefer during the blessings before the reading and the main law is that the sefer does not even need to be rolled closed during the first blessings.



          I have no source for whether or not to cover the sefer for the concluding blessing.






          share|improve this answer























          • I have heard from my rav as well as another that covering during the final blessing becomes a "battle" between tircha detzibur and kavod hatorah. Thus, during weekdays, when one aliyah immediately follows the next, the torah is not covered b/c of tircha. On Shabbat & Yom Tov, when we make mi sheberach for the olim, it is covered, as this is considered a longer span to leave the Torah uncovered. Of course, it does put to question why not wait until after the blessing is finished to put on the cover? I have no answer for that.

            – DanF
            Jun 24 at 14:44












          • excellent thank you.

            – Avrohom Yitzchok
            Jun 24 at 15:32













          4












          4








          4







          To be clear you are asking about covering the Torah while saying the blessings (and not at any other time).



          SA O Ch 139 (4) says:




          Everybody who reads (should) bless before it and after it. They should
          open the Torah scroll before they bless and see the verse they need to
          start with and then they bless and then read the Torah and then roll
          it up and bless (the second blessing). Gloss: and at the time that
          they bless the first blessing they should turn their heads to the side
          so that it does not appear that they are reading the blessing from the
          Torah (The Kol Bo) and it seems to me that they should turn to the
          left.




          On the words “and then they bless” Mishna Berura says:




          ר"ל שאין צריך לגלול הס"ת בשעת ברכתו וליכא למיחש שמא יאמרו ברכות כתובות
          בתורה



          That means that there is no need to roll the sefer closed at the time
          of his blessing and one does not need to suspect that people will say
          that the blessings are written in the Torah




          but for the blessing after the reading the Mishna Berura says that the sefer should be closed up.



          The Biur Halocho says:




          ודע שיש פוסקים שסוברים דאם רוצה לגלול ואח"כ לברך עדיף טפי אלא דהלכה
          כר' יהודה שאינו מחוייב לעשות כן ועפ"ז נוהגין איזה מקומות שרואין
          וגוללין ואח"כ מברכין ונהרא נהרא ופשטיה [אחרונים]:



          and you should know that there are poskim who hold that it is better
          if one closes the sefer and then makes the first blessings. But the
          halocho is like Rebbi Yehudah that one is not obliged to do this. Thus
          some places have the custom to close the sefer before making the
          blessings and every place should follow its own custom.




          It is thus clear that there is no requirement to cover the sefer during the blessings before the reading and the main law is that the sefer does not even need to be rolled closed during the first blessings.



          I have no source for whether or not to cover the sefer for the concluding blessing.






          share|improve this answer













          To be clear you are asking about covering the Torah while saying the blessings (and not at any other time).



          SA O Ch 139 (4) says:




          Everybody who reads (should) bless before it and after it. They should
          open the Torah scroll before they bless and see the verse they need to
          start with and then they bless and then read the Torah and then roll
          it up and bless (the second blessing). Gloss: and at the time that
          they bless the first blessing they should turn their heads to the side
          so that it does not appear that they are reading the blessing from the
          Torah (The Kol Bo) and it seems to me that they should turn to the
          left.




          On the words “and then they bless” Mishna Berura says:




          ר"ל שאין צריך לגלול הס"ת בשעת ברכתו וליכא למיחש שמא יאמרו ברכות כתובות
          בתורה



          That means that there is no need to roll the sefer closed at the time
          of his blessing and one does not need to suspect that people will say
          that the blessings are written in the Torah




          but for the blessing after the reading the Mishna Berura says that the sefer should be closed up.



          The Biur Halocho says:




          ודע שיש פוסקים שסוברים דאם רוצה לגלול ואח"כ לברך עדיף טפי אלא דהלכה
          כר' יהודה שאינו מחוייב לעשות כן ועפ"ז נוהגין איזה מקומות שרואין
          וגוללין ואח"כ מברכין ונהרא נהרא ופשטיה [אחרונים]:



          and you should know that there are poskim who hold that it is better
          if one closes the sefer and then makes the first blessings. But the
          halocho is like Rebbi Yehudah that one is not obliged to do this. Thus
          some places have the custom to close the sefer before making the
          blessings and every place should follow its own custom.




          It is thus clear that there is no requirement to cover the sefer during the blessings before the reading and the main law is that the sefer does not even need to be rolled closed during the first blessings.



          I have no source for whether or not to cover the sefer for the concluding blessing.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered Jun 24 at 10:53









          Avrohom YitzchokAvrohom Yitzchok

          31.9k6 gold badges33 silver badges103 bronze badges




          31.9k6 gold badges33 silver badges103 bronze badges












          • I have heard from my rav as well as another that covering during the final blessing becomes a "battle" between tircha detzibur and kavod hatorah. Thus, during weekdays, when one aliyah immediately follows the next, the torah is not covered b/c of tircha. On Shabbat & Yom Tov, when we make mi sheberach for the olim, it is covered, as this is considered a longer span to leave the Torah uncovered. Of course, it does put to question why not wait until after the blessing is finished to put on the cover? I have no answer for that.

            – DanF
            Jun 24 at 14:44












          • excellent thank you.

            – Avrohom Yitzchok
            Jun 24 at 15:32

















          • I have heard from my rav as well as another that covering during the final blessing becomes a "battle" between tircha detzibur and kavod hatorah. Thus, during weekdays, when one aliyah immediately follows the next, the torah is not covered b/c of tircha. On Shabbat & Yom Tov, when we make mi sheberach for the olim, it is covered, as this is considered a longer span to leave the Torah uncovered. Of course, it does put to question why not wait until after the blessing is finished to put on the cover? I have no answer for that.

            – DanF
            Jun 24 at 14:44












          • excellent thank you.

            – Avrohom Yitzchok
            Jun 24 at 15:32
















          I have heard from my rav as well as another that covering during the final blessing becomes a "battle" between tircha detzibur and kavod hatorah. Thus, during weekdays, when one aliyah immediately follows the next, the torah is not covered b/c of tircha. On Shabbat & Yom Tov, when we make mi sheberach for the olim, it is covered, as this is considered a longer span to leave the Torah uncovered. Of course, it does put to question why not wait until after the blessing is finished to put on the cover? I have no answer for that.

          – DanF
          Jun 24 at 14:44






          I have heard from my rav as well as another that covering during the final blessing becomes a "battle" between tircha detzibur and kavod hatorah. Thus, during weekdays, when one aliyah immediately follows the next, the torah is not covered b/c of tircha. On Shabbat & Yom Tov, when we make mi sheberach for the olim, it is covered, as this is considered a longer span to leave the Torah uncovered. Of course, it does put to question why not wait until after the blessing is finished to put on the cover? I have no answer for that.

          – DanF
          Jun 24 at 14:44














          excellent thank you.

          – Avrohom Yitzchok
          Jun 24 at 15:32





          excellent thank you.

          – Avrohom Yitzchok
          Jun 24 at 15:32











          3














          The Shulchan Aruch (149:5) presents two opinions regarding general covering of the Torah when not being read. To cover with a cloth, or to roll closed.




          נהגו לכסות הכתב בסודר בין גברא לגברא (ובמדינות אלו נהגו שהיא מגוללת בין גברא לגברא וכן עיקר):




          Rama (149:4) writes that one should turn aside his face while making the blessing. Other commentaries discuss the old concern (Talmud, Megillah 32a) that others may perceive that the blessings are written in the scroll itself.




          הגה ובשעה שמברך ברכה ראשונה יהפוך פניו אל הצד שלא יהא נראה כמברך מן התורה [כל בו] ונראה לי שיהפוך פניו לצד שמאלו:







          share|improve this answer























          • The first part of your answer deals with the situation בין גברא לגברא i.e. between aliyos and is not relevant to the question. The second part of your answer does not explicitly address whether the scroll is covered although it does imply that it is not covered because it says יהפוך פניו אל הצד שלא יהא נראה כמברך מן התורה he should turn his face to the side so that it does not look like he is reading the blessings form the scroll.

            – Avrohom Yitzchok
            Jun 24 at 10:58











          • The question is rather unclear @AvrohomYitzchok

            – Dr. Shmuel
            Jun 24 at 10:59















          3














          The Shulchan Aruch (149:5) presents two opinions regarding general covering of the Torah when not being read. To cover with a cloth, or to roll closed.




          נהגו לכסות הכתב בסודר בין גברא לגברא (ובמדינות אלו נהגו שהיא מגוללת בין גברא לגברא וכן עיקר):




          Rama (149:4) writes that one should turn aside his face while making the blessing. Other commentaries discuss the old concern (Talmud, Megillah 32a) that others may perceive that the blessings are written in the scroll itself.




          הגה ובשעה שמברך ברכה ראשונה יהפוך פניו אל הצד שלא יהא נראה כמברך מן התורה [כל בו] ונראה לי שיהפוך פניו לצד שמאלו:







          share|improve this answer























          • The first part of your answer deals with the situation בין גברא לגברא i.e. between aliyos and is not relevant to the question. The second part of your answer does not explicitly address whether the scroll is covered although it does imply that it is not covered because it says יהפוך פניו אל הצד שלא יהא נראה כמברך מן התורה he should turn his face to the side so that it does not look like he is reading the blessings form the scroll.

            – Avrohom Yitzchok
            Jun 24 at 10:58











          • The question is rather unclear @AvrohomYitzchok

            – Dr. Shmuel
            Jun 24 at 10:59













          3












          3








          3







          The Shulchan Aruch (149:5) presents two opinions regarding general covering of the Torah when not being read. To cover with a cloth, or to roll closed.




          נהגו לכסות הכתב בסודר בין גברא לגברא (ובמדינות אלו נהגו שהיא מגוללת בין גברא לגברא וכן עיקר):




          Rama (149:4) writes that one should turn aside his face while making the blessing. Other commentaries discuss the old concern (Talmud, Megillah 32a) that others may perceive that the blessings are written in the scroll itself.




          הגה ובשעה שמברך ברכה ראשונה יהפוך פניו אל הצד שלא יהא נראה כמברך מן התורה [כל בו] ונראה לי שיהפוך פניו לצד שמאלו:







          share|improve this answer













          The Shulchan Aruch (149:5) presents two opinions regarding general covering of the Torah when not being read. To cover with a cloth, or to roll closed.




          נהגו לכסות הכתב בסודר בין גברא לגברא (ובמדינות אלו נהגו שהיא מגוללת בין גברא לגברא וכן עיקר):




          Rama (149:4) writes that one should turn aside his face while making the blessing. Other commentaries discuss the old concern (Talmud, Megillah 32a) that others may perceive that the blessings are written in the scroll itself.




          הגה ובשעה שמברך ברכה ראשונה יהפוך פניו אל הצד שלא יהא נראה כמברך מן התורה [כל בו] ונראה לי שיהפוך פניו לצד שמאלו:








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          answered Jun 24 at 3:56









          Dr. ShmuelDr. Shmuel

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          • The first part of your answer deals with the situation בין גברא לגברא i.e. between aliyos and is not relevant to the question. The second part of your answer does not explicitly address whether the scroll is covered although it does imply that it is not covered because it says יהפוך פניו אל הצד שלא יהא נראה כמברך מן התורה he should turn his face to the side so that it does not look like he is reading the blessings form the scroll.

            – Avrohom Yitzchok
            Jun 24 at 10:58











          • The question is rather unclear @AvrohomYitzchok

            – Dr. Shmuel
            Jun 24 at 10:59

















          • The first part of your answer deals with the situation בין גברא לגברא i.e. between aliyos and is not relevant to the question. The second part of your answer does not explicitly address whether the scroll is covered although it does imply that it is not covered because it says יהפוך פניו אל הצד שלא יהא נראה כמברך מן התורה he should turn his face to the side so that it does not look like he is reading the blessings form the scroll.

            – Avrohom Yitzchok
            Jun 24 at 10:58











          • The question is rather unclear @AvrohomYitzchok

            – Dr. Shmuel
            Jun 24 at 10:59
















          The first part of your answer deals with the situation בין גברא לגברא i.e. between aliyos and is not relevant to the question. The second part of your answer does not explicitly address whether the scroll is covered although it does imply that it is not covered because it says יהפוך פניו אל הצד שלא יהא נראה כמברך מן התורה he should turn his face to the side so that it does not look like he is reading the blessings form the scroll.

          – Avrohom Yitzchok
          Jun 24 at 10:58





          The first part of your answer deals with the situation בין גברא לגברא i.e. between aliyos and is not relevant to the question. The second part of your answer does not explicitly address whether the scroll is covered although it does imply that it is not covered because it says יהפוך פניו אל הצד שלא יהא נראה כמברך מן התורה he should turn his face to the side so that it does not look like he is reading the blessings form the scroll.

          – Avrohom Yitzchok
          Jun 24 at 10:58













          The question is rather unclear @AvrohomYitzchok

          – Dr. Shmuel
          Jun 24 at 10:59





          The question is rather unclear @AvrohomYitzchok

          – Dr. Shmuel
          Jun 24 at 10:59



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