How to supply water to a coastal desert town with no rain and no freshwater aquifers?What methods might an ancient civilization use to desalinate sea water?What and how main technological breakthrough we have today could be replaced with magic?How would a town powered mainly by water work?How to bring water and heat to an isolated and poor mountain village with extremely low costs?How do you know an invisible person is near to you and catch him with day-to-day items?City on a Cloud - how to build an effective water supply?What are the most efficient sources of water and electricity in a vast desert?New Hologram World with touch and feel, Possible? Land, Water, Fire, Air, Sky with touch and feel Hologram?How much water is needed to create a Katana capable of cutting flesh, bones and wood?
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How to supply water to a coastal desert town with no rain and no freshwater aquifers?
What methods might an ancient civilization use to desalinate sea water?What and how main technological breakthrough we have today could be replaced with magic?How would a town powered mainly by water work?How to bring water and heat to an isolated and poor mountain village with extremely low costs?How do you know an invisible person is near to you and catch him with day-to-day items?City on a Cloud - how to build an effective water supply?What are the most efficient sources of water and electricity in a vast desert?New Hologram World with touch and feel, Possible? Land, Water, Fire, Air, Sky with touch and feel Hologram?How much water is needed to create a Katana capable of cutting flesh, bones and wood?
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Think Tatooine in climate, but with oceans. Here are a few restrictions due to setting:
- There is modern technology, but not too much electricity ie no super high amperage machines.
- Population is small at first (only a couple hundred), but is growing since this town has a strong supply of water and other towns do not.
- There must be enough water for drinking, showering, and small amounts of farming. Fishing is the primary food source.
- The people are mostly very poor and shipping the water is not feasible except for the wealthiest members of the village (one of the themes here is the conflict this brings)
- The solution should be buildable by people without lots of money
Any suggestions re desalination, condensation, etc are welcome.
technology water
asked Jul 2 at 17:14
Joe BJoe B
1561 silver badge6 bronze badges
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show 9 more comments
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Think Tatooine in climate, but with oceans. Here are a few restrictions due to setting:
- There is modern technology, but not too much electricity ie no super high amperage machines.
- Population is small at first (only a couple hundred), but is growing since this town has a strong supply of water and other towns do not.
- There must be enough water for drinking, showering, and small amounts of farming. Fishing is the primary food source.
- The people are mostly very poor and shipping the water is not feasible except for the wealthiest members of the village (one of the themes here is the conflict this brings)
- The solution should be buildable by people without lots of money
Any suggestions re desalination, condensation, etc are welcome.
technology water
asked Jul 2 at 17:14
Joe BJoe B
1561 silver badge6 bronze badges
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4
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TBH this could have been a google search. That's what I did and found quite a few options. Something like this maybe: treehugger.com/clean-technology/…
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– Morris The Cat
Jul 2 at 17:23
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Looks to me like you answered your own question.
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– Carl Witthoft
Jul 2 at 17:29
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@MorrisTheCat if you do the math, you can see that product is a scam
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– Ferrybig
Jul 3 at 11:36
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Have you thought about Tatooine? Luke Skywalker was: a) a nerf herder b) a podracer c) moisture farmer.
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– SZCZERZO KŁY
Jul 3 at 12:13
1
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@Lupus: I'm sweating enough in Ohio right now to water an entire town on Arrakis! And if you include the dogs, who are panting like little maniacs, I think we can solve their water problem between the three of us!
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– Bob Jarvis
Jul 4 at 17:39
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show 9 more comments
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Think Tatooine in climate, but with oceans. Here are a few restrictions due to setting:
- There is modern technology, but not too much electricity ie no super high amperage machines.
- Population is small at first (only a couple hundred), but is growing since this town has a strong supply of water and other towns do not.
- There must be enough water for drinking, showering, and small amounts of farming. Fishing is the primary food source.
- The people are mostly very poor and shipping the water is not feasible except for the wealthiest members of the village (one of the themes here is the conflict this brings)
- The solution should be buildable by people without lots of money
Any suggestions re desalination, condensation, etc are welcome.
technology water
asked Jul 2 at 17:14
Joe BJoe B
1561 silver badge6 bronze badges
$endgroup$
Think Tatooine in climate, but with oceans. Here are a few restrictions due to setting:
- There is modern technology, but not too much electricity ie no super high amperage machines.
- Population is small at first (only a couple hundred), but is growing since this town has a strong supply of water and other towns do not.
- There must be enough water for drinking, showering, and small amounts of farming. Fishing is the primary food source.
- The people are mostly very poor and shipping the water is not feasible except for the wealthiest members of the village (one of the themes here is the conflict this brings)
- The solution should be buildable by people without lots of money
Any suggestions re desalination, condensation, etc are welcome.
technology water
technology water
asked Jul 2 at 17:14
Joe BJoe B
1561 silver badge6 bronze badges
asked Jul 2 at 17:14
Joe BJoe B
1561 silver badge6 bronze badges
edited Jul 2 at 17:30
Joe B
asked Jul 2 at 17:14
Joe BJoe B
1561 silver badge6 bronze badges
asked Jul 2 at 17:14
Joe BJoe B
1561 silver badge6 bronze badges
asked Jul 2 at 17:14
Joe BJoe B
1561 silver badge6 bronze badges
1561 silver badge6 bronze badges
4
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TBH this could have been a google search. That's what I did and found quite a few options. Something like this maybe: treehugger.com/clean-technology/…
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– Morris The Cat
Jul 2 at 17:23
5
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Looks to me like you answered your own question.
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– Carl Witthoft
Jul 2 at 17:29
1
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@MorrisTheCat if you do the math, you can see that product is a scam
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– Ferrybig
Jul 3 at 11:36
2
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Have you thought about Tatooine? Luke Skywalker was: a) a nerf herder b) a podracer c) moisture farmer.
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– SZCZERZO KŁY
Jul 3 at 12:13
1
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@Lupus: I'm sweating enough in Ohio right now to water an entire town on Arrakis! And if you include the dogs, who are panting like little maniacs, I think we can solve their water problem between the three of us!
$endgroup$
– Bob Jarvis
Jul 4 at 17:39
|
show 9 more comments
4
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TBH this could have been a google search. That's what I did and found quite a few options. Something like this maybe: treehugger.com/clean-technology/…
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– Morris The Cat
Jul 2 at 17:23
5
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Looks to me like you answered your own question.
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– Carl Witthoft
Jul 2 at 17:29
1
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@MorrisTheCat if you do the math, you can see that product is a scam
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– Ferrybig
Jul 3 at 11:36
2
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Have you thought about Tatooine? Luke Skywalker was: a) a nerf herder b) a podracer c) moisture farmer.
$endgroup$
– SZCZERZO KŁY
Jul 3 at 12:13
1
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@Lupus: I'm sweating enough in Ohio right now to water an entire town on Arrakis! And if you include the dogs, who are panting like little maniacs, I think we can solve their water problem between the three of us!
$endgroup$
– Bob Jarvis
Jul 4 at 17:39
4
4
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TBH this could have been a google search. That's what I did and found quite a few options. Something like this maybe: treehugger.com/clean-technology/…
$endgroup$
– Morris The Cat
Jul 2 at 17:23
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TBH this could have been a google search. That's what I did and found quite a few options. Something like this maybe: treehugger.com/clean-technology/…
$endgroup$
– Morris The Cat
Jul 2 at 17:23
5
5
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Looks to me like you answered your own question.
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– Carl Witthoft
Jul 2 at 17:29
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Looks to me like you answered your own question.
$endgroup$
– Carl Witthoft
Jul 2 at 17:29
1
1
$begingroup$
@MorrisTheCat if you do the math, you can see that product is a scam
$endgroup$
– Ferrybig
Jul 3 at 11:36
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@MorrisTheCat if you do the math, you can see that product is a scam
$endgroup$
– Ferrybig
Jul 3 at 11:36
2
2
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Have you thought about Tatooine? Luke Skywalker was: a) a nerf herder b) a podracer c) moisture farmer.
$endgroup$
– SZCZERZO KŁY
Jul 3 at 12:13
$begingroup$
Have you thought about Tatooine? Luke Skywalker was: a) a nerf herder b) a podracer c) moisture farmer.
$endgroup$
– SZCZERZO KŁY
Jul 3 at 12:13
1
1
$begingroup$
@Lupus: I'm sweating enough in Ohio right now to water an entire town on Arrakis! And if you include the dogs, who are panting like little maniacs, I think we can solve their water problem between the three of us!
$endgroup$
– Bob Jarvis
Jul 4 at 17:39
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@Lupus: I'm sweating enough in Ohio right now to water an entire town on Arrakis! And if you include the dogs, who are panting like little maniacs, I think we can solve their water problem between the three of us!
$endgroup$
– Bob Jarvis
Jul 4 at 17:39
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show 9 more comments
15 Answers
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It's a coastal city with lots of sunshine in a modern setting. You have everything you need and more. All you have to do is desalinate the water and it's done. Took less than a minute research.
OK, you have to scale it a little better than in the link.
Channel the seawater to shallow fields, coated with water resistant foil to prevent seeping it to the ground. It should be a few cm water in each field. Transparent vinyl (or what it's called) close above it. It lets through the sunlight, speeding up the water evaporation. The vinyl catches the evaporated water droplets and with a slight tilt, they will flow to a prepared storage (or the agricultural fields). The salt remains, which they have to collect, but they can sell it for good money.
The amount of water is only dependent on the size of the fields.
edited Jul 2 at 22:42
Brythan
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answered Jul 2 at 17:45
LupusLupus
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If you don’t have access to modern materials you can achieve much the same result with rows of appropriately shaped clay jugs. It’s less efficient but much easier to achieve.
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– Joe Bloggs
Jul 2 at 18:08
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The idea is good, but the method described above would require huge facilities to yield enough water for farming. I think this link provides more options: Solar desalination
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– Alexander
Jul 2 at 18:13
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@Alexander I didn't dig deeply into the topic, I just remembered it from reading it in a novel (Release that Witch). You are right about farming. I didn't calculate yield or required area, just thought this method was the easiest. Thanks for the extra link!
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– Lupus
Jul 2 at 18:30
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Add smart technology to the vinyl, you can; 1) Allow in or magnify the most efficient solar energy into the distiller and 2) add capillaries in the vinyl to prevent fresh water dripping back into briny water below, or use ventilation to pull off the water vapor before it collects. If this system was built on a hill, facing the sun, then you can trickle the water down constantly, ensuring its shallow enough to evaporate in a timely manor. Added benefit, you can then collect the brine and evaporate even further to extract the sea salt for trade.
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– Sonvar
Jul 2 at 23:22
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If you don't try to collect the salt, but just let the stronger brine flow out the other end, you can get more water per unit area. (It rather depends how valuable salt is in this environment.)
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– Martin Bonner
Jul 3 at 9:03
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Qanats.
https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1506
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qanat
A qanat or kariz is a gently sloping underground channel to transport
water from an aquifer or water well to surface for irrigation and
drinking, acting as an underground aqueduct. This is an old system of
water supply from a deep well with a series of vertical access shafts.
The qanats still create a reliable supply of water for human
settlements and irrigation in hot, arid, and semi-arid climates, but
the value of this system is directly related to the quality, volume,
and regularity of the water flow. Traditionally qanats are built by a
group of skilled laborers, muqannīs, with hand labor. The profession
historically paid well and was typically handed down from father to
son. According to most sources, the qanat technology was developed in
ancient Iran by the Persian people sometime in the early 1st
millennium BC...
Qanats are super duper cool. They are ancient engineering marvels which still do what they are supposed to do millennia later. These underground aqueducts move water from distant sources (often miles away!) to arid lands and offer a bunch of side benefits - in addition to clean water, qanats can provide cool air. Read on how having a qanat pass under your house offers cool air pulled up thru the house via a chimney.
answered Jul 2 at 18:27
WillkWillk
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OP said no aquifers.
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– Michael
Jul 3 at 5:55
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@Michael they said no aquifers, but didn't provide scope. We don't know if they meant "no aquifers below", meaning wells wont work, or "no aquifers on the whole planet". If its the former, this is an acceptable solution.
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– Trotski94
Jul 3 at 8:14
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This solves the spotty tech + impoverished region dynamic's requirements.
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– elemtilas
Jul 3 at 12:55
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An extreme possibility, which requires some suspension of belief: This town lives in a small plain surrounded by mountains. Local winds bring heavy fog 24/7 which is trapped in large collector/condensers.
answered Jul 2 at 17:31
Carl WitthoftCarl Witthoft
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Not that much suspension of disbelief. There are lizards and beetles that use exactly this tactic to survive in coastal areas where wind in the mornings draws (relatively) moist air over the dunes.
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– Joe Bloggs
Jul 2 at 18:05
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This is a real thing: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog_collection
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– pluckedkiwi
Jul 2 at 20:58
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Many forms of life rely on this very process. One place that comes to mind is the desert coast of Angola and Nambia )the desert names escape me right now) but it hardly ever rains there, and the life rely on morning fog to sustain them for the entire day.
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– Sonvar
Jul 2 at 23:26
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I understand @JoeBloggs , but my concern is that might not be enough water to meet the needs of human beings.
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– Carl Witthoft
Jul 3 at 15:35
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@CarlWitthoft: Said needs can be scaled down, compared to the modern Western World, and the relative scarcity could actually be a plot hook, with new arrivals being received poorly as their presence increase the pressure on the meager supply.
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– Matthieu M.
Jul 4 at 12:38
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Actual solutions used in the coast of the Atacama desert:
Fog collection. The wind from the sea does bring some water, which you can collect, but it's limited, not very scalable.
Update: limitations of fog collection include the maximum water content of fog (saturation) and fog collector efficiency (which depends on wind speed). Also, according to the OAS: Their water supply can still be contaminated by windborne dust, birds, and insects. The moisture collected can promote growth of mold and other possibly toxic microorganisms on the mesh.
As a rule-of-thumb reference, this paper states that in optimal conditions a fog collector can theoretically collect 75%-95% of the water content of air at wind speeds between 2 and 8 m/s. Unfortunately these conditions worsen with bigger size of the collector. Assuming the best throughput takes place at top speed AND with a decent content of water in air (usually ranging in the grams/cubic meter, say 10), you get a few dozen grams of water per sqare meter of collector per second ($8times10times.95=76,g$), but can optimal conditions be sustained all day, all days? Typical throughput in the Atacama desert (I assume desert=dry, Atacama being one of the driest, though) is around $5,lt$ per square meter of collector per day.
Desalination of seawater is still expensive, not very scalable. You can lower standards (taste, purity) to get a little more water, which could fuel your conflicts. Military sea vessels get water through desalination, using a combo of temperature, osmosis and pressure (thanks to their engines).
Other:
- Pipes from oases.
- Underground streams.
- Water trucks.
All in all, current technology will limit your settlement's population, unless you can bring water with pipes or something else.
FWIW, cities in the Atacama desert rely on external sources, and need to ration water.
answered Jul 2 at 19:29
RafaelRafael
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There's an important point to be made here that's a fundamental Frame Challenge. Oceans full of water on a desert (aka "hot") planet like Tatooine will evaporate something awful. That water vapor will go someplace. The idea of fog collection is excellent and deserving of attention. +1
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– JBH
Jul 3 at 4:33
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@JBH Agreed, but fog in Atacama gets very dense at times. Also upper bounds exist: air saturation (above which there would be rain, which would prevent desertification) and fog collector efficiency (not even close to perfect)
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– Rafael
Jul 3 at 13:13
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Well, I just found out that efficiency can theoretically get to 95%, but more typically ranges below 50%
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– Rafael
Jul 3 at 13:44
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@Lupus just reminded me that I should pay a LOT more attention to other answers! His answer is this answer and it was posted before mine. Please go upvote his answer! It's a good answer! Thanks!
Behold! A time-tested method for desalinating water
Wiki how shows us a modern method similar to that I used as a teen in the Scouts. (Image from Wiki How.)
The process is simple: evaporate the salt water and let it condense on plastic, then drain the plastic someplace useful.
Here is a video showing how to do it with some plastic bottles found on the beach.
Here is a video showing a larger operation.
This system can be easily scaled so long as you can support whatever material is being used to condense the water. Honestly, it's conceivable you could do this over whole acres, letting in seawater through a gate and draining into a cistern.
answered Jul 2 at 18:10
JBHJBH
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You linked the same thing I did, with embedded picture and extra videos. Great minds think alike! :P
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– Lupus
Jul 2 at 22:55
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@Lupus Aaah! I apologize! The two answers were within ~20 minutes of each other and I obviously wasn't paying attention. I'll edit my answer to direct everyone to you. Sorry about that!
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– JBH
Jul 3 at 3:46
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No problem, really. It was an obvious answer to me, so didn't put much effort into my answer. Since then I learned some nice stuff from the other answers, including yours.
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– Lupus
Jul 3 at 4:16
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Assuming your oceans are salt water, these are a few ideas that occurred to me:
Use wide-bandgap semiconductors to perform photo-electrolysis -- separating the hydrogen and oxygen using photons ( 2 photons + 2 H2O -> 2 H2 + O2 ). This is a technical possibility today, the development to make it engineering solution is still in progress. Then, ignite the gases and you have pure H2O again.
Evaporators:
The village has dug channels for water at high tide to fill wide shallow ponds enclosed in plastic tarping. The heat of the sun evaporates the water, leaving the salt behind, then water is condensed in shaded metal tubes that act as heat exchangers -- looks like large stills
Orthographic lifting + modified natural caves + passive heat exchangers:
The village sits on a wide peninsula surrounded by mountains that funnel the air higher and higher to a canyon or pass at the top. The mountains are honeycombed with natural caves, that people extended using explosives so they open on the other side of the mountains.
The moist winds are cooled as they rise -- a consequence of orthographic lifting -- and air going into the caves is cooled further. The water condenses in underground reservoirs. This all only works because of the strange and unique geography and limestone or sandstone mountains in this area.
answered Jul 2 at 18:05
EDLEDL
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It's gotta be said! "Luckily, in the history of humanity, nothing bad has ever happened from lighting hydrogen on fire....." :-)
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– JBH
Jul 3 at 4:30
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@JBH, as long as the H2 concentration stays below 8% there will be no reenactments of the Hindenburg.
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– EDL
Jul 3 at 5:08
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Make water from coal.
I proposed this to Innocentive as a way soldiers could make water for themselves in arid climates: condense it from vehicle exhaust. The cleaner your carbon source (natural gas would be ideal for this) the fewer contaminants will be in the water you will make.
Assumptions:
1: This is a planet with an oxygen environment.
2: There are hydrocarbons like coal available to be burned.
The formula for oxidation (burning) hydrocarbon is CH4 + O2 -> CO2 + H2O
https://energyeducation.ca/encyclopedia/Hydrocarbon_combustion
The big fluffy white plumes one sees coming from the smokestacks of coal plants are mostly water steam, produced as the product of combustion.
Some napkin numbers: considering a pure carbon hydrocarbon (more like coal than natural gas) you get 2 moles of water from every mole carbon burned. That means 1 ton of coal can be burned to produce 226 liters of water. A human needs to drink about 2 liters of water daily.
You would definitely want Israeli-style water conserving agriculture in a situation like this. You would need a readily available carbon source like coal or oil to burn. You would need a way to condense the steam and then possibly distill it again to remove contaminants from your hydrocarbon source. As regards distilling you fortunately have a heat source you are not using for anything else: all the burning coal.
answered Jul 3 at 15:48
WillkWillk
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Aqueducts
Aqueducts have been used for thousands of years to get water from one place to another. No modern tech needed nor materials but it would help speed up construction.
The Roman Aqueducts were up to 57 miles long and some are still in use today. They can be built of stone or timber.
The OP states this town has good water but other do not which means it has to have something others don't have. Desalination and/or condensation plants can be built at any town and in fact the other town would build their own
answered Jul 3 at 6:14
ThorneThorne
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If this is set in the near future, desalination plants should be an option.
The main requirement is lots of electricity. They have lots of sunlight. At present the capital cost of solar PV panels may be prohibitive for a poor community, but this is because of the nature of Silicon solar cells. We already have perovskite solar cells working in the labs. The goal is a solar panel that can be manufactured almost as easily as spraying paint onto glass. So set the story in a future where that goal is realized, and where solar panels are as cheap as glass windows. That in turn will drive the cost of the rest of the desalination technology way down.
As per other answers, you can do low-tech desalination with just plastic sheeting, and sell salt as a bonus. But agriculture is thirsty. I rather doubt you can desalinate enough water for subsistence agriculture that way. Perhaps they only need vegetables as dietary supplements, and get the majority of their calorific intake as fish/ seafood? (If you relax the "no aquifer" constraint, you can have deep-rooted crops such as grape vines, which can pull up water from very many feet underground. Perhaps a low-permeability aquifer, which is not useful if you dig a well into it, but which such plants can use).
answered Jul 3 at 8:38
nigel222nigel222
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Reverse Osmosis Desalination Plants (or RO Desalination) only require power to operate a pump. You can get a small manual version. Anything that can provide a pushing force could be used instead of the electrical supply. This could be a load of cattle working in a circle or it could be that local hand "pumps" that look like the old fassioned leave ones actually include an RO filter and if you want a drink you have to pump the water out the sea and through the filter by hand.
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– TafT
Jul 3 at 10:29
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Yes, but as I said, agriculture is thirsty. There's a huge difference between the amount of water needed to keep one person alive for a year, and the amount needed to irrigate the land on which enough crops grow to feed that person for a year.
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– nigel222
Jul 3 at 11:06
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True but we are talking only small amounts of agriculture. We can shower and clean ourselves in sea water. We can clean most things in sea water. There are probably crops tolerant to not very well filtered water. Once you setup an irrigation system the operations of it might not be that intensive. Guy spends an hour in a tredmill in the cool of a morning or something.
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– TafT
Jul 4 at 7:55
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@TafT Agreed, which is why I noted that maybe they eat only small amounts of terrestrial vegetables for vitamins, and mostly seafood for calories. (Elsewhere, I have read that it's possible to live off the sea indefinitely with no intake of terrestrial vegetation at all. I have my doubts, but it's certainly almost true).
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– nigel222
Jul 4 at 11:27
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As others have mentioned fog/moisture capture and transport from other regions, but perhaps something to compliment... how to maximize the impact of what water you do have.
The design of spaces and usage of plants to create micro-climate effects to maximize water impact. Consideration of succulent type plants for pioneering/climate modification.
So, regarding plants/micro-climate. If you've produced an enclosed space and have grown trees these are beneficial because you moderate the exposure to the sun. If you look at that image of the qanat, this is indicative, the trees shade the ground and water, minimizing the evaporation of what is there. The more shade you have, the more you conserve what water you do have.
https://forestsnews.cifor.org/10316/make-it-rain-planting-forests-to-help-drought-stricken-regions?fnl=en
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_greening
Furthermore, the trees will buffer wind, and can themselves capture a bit of moisture in the air, and of course slow down evaporation.
On a larger scale, trees actually help to produce rain, as they do breathe off water themselves.
Consider this, if there is moisture in the air, but not enough to rain... as this moisture passes over a forest, where trees are breathing off moisture, the combined effect of the ambient air moisture + tree breathed moisture, combines to produce enough total moisture to cause precipitation (enough water combined will fall as rain).
So downwind somewhere you'd probably want to consider capture and some sort of piping/aqueduct, like the qanats. And send that moisture back to your cultivated forests upwind. This could be an expanding system that, although fragile, could be something that would slowly scale.
More trees would shelter more land/water, and breathe more moisture, which would interact with the evaporated moisture from the sea, which could precipitate, leading to more water to pipe back to said trees, which could be expanded to shelter/breathe more moisture, interacting with more sea moisture, etc.etc.etc...
Anyhow, regarding succulents. There are various species of plants, like cactus, and these are of course species most adapted to low moisture levels.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succulent_plant
These could be interesting considering a systematic approach to the landscape/microclimate and if you used the tree/shade/moisture model, could be used as a notion of "pioneering" species. So before you plant trees, you have cacti and other succulents, helping to intercept moisture/attract animals and shade the ground.
Every bit of shade/water interception counts in this model.
On top of that, if you consider what "agriculture" means, there are succulents that are used in that regard. Consider agave:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agave
Agave can produce food, and of course is used in tequila production.
Furthermore, there are plant species that are highly salt tolerant. These could utilize some of the untreated water. They would again be able to provide shade/animal habitat, and would themselves contribute into the water feedback loop described above.
https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/special/seaside/gardening-salt-water-soil.htm
Considering the availability of salty water, these salt tolerant plants + succulents could help form the "outer boundary" and pioneer the land, helping prepare for a slow adaptation of regular trees/plants to enter the space as water is available to irrigate.
So, in total, this is a multi-dimensional approach to the usage/protection and increase in moisture, rain production, capture, and forming a slowly scaling feedback loop to promote more and more rain production/interception and water presence in desert greening type of way.
If you combine this sort of "perma-culture" approach with the technological captures/transport described by others, you could have a more holistic approach to water production/capture/conservation.
Hopefully that is inspiring, and not just in your fiction, but also for real life.
answered Jul 3 at 12:01
ANDREGEOUSANDREGEOUS
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(Edited)
Well, even if there is almost no rain, there still may exist some rain. People can dig large holes or build containers in which they store water from rainy periods and use it along the year. Some people make that in semi-desert areas in Brazil, however the water is not enough for luxuries such as baths and in your case would need some complement.
Also, it's possible for the desert to have underground water sources that can be accessed via wells. These sources are basically like "underground rivers" that are born in far away areas where the soil absorbs more water.
One other thing that I could think is the use of plants. Desert plants are good at retaining water, so maybe you could have a special plant that can get water from very lower levels in the soil and be used as a water source. I don't know, though, how much of these plants would be needed to supply a person and if it would be enough.
The other option is desalinization. People are saying it's viable and kinda easy, but as far as I know, it's usually costly and used when nothing else works; a last resource. However, if your society really depends on it, they may have worked a way to make it cheaper and easier.
Many of this options can change according to other aspects of your geography, of course, like mountain ranges and hidden underground water sources.
answered Jul 2 at 17:57
johannfowljohannfowl
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If the city is located close to the sea, the winds blowing from the sea inland will carry some humidity.
Overnight the falling temperatures can lead to the humidity condensing, therefore a series of drapes oriented parallel to the wind direction can act as condensing surface, letting then the water flow into channels to a reservoir.
answered Jul 2 at 18:51
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
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I’m going to challenge you on the shipping water. Oil costs $0.5-0.75 per barrel per 1000 miles via pipe, $4.25-5.50 per barrel per 1000 miles via train, and $1 per barrel per 1000 miles via boat to ship. An oil barrel is 42 gallons. This gives us a price of $0.01-0.13 a gallon of oil per 1000 miles. If water costs the same as oil because it is shipped from other countries, this would mean water would cost the same price to be shipped, plus an additional cost of basically nothing for water. Now, if you are willing for people to act like we do, people could be using 100 gallons of water a day. This would cost a citizen about $1-13 a day per 1000 miles, which is considerably high, but manageable for everyone. This leads to a question of how to weed out other towns. A simple method is to have your town have a good military or good strategy to protect the water shipments. Water shipments are much more valuable than oil and would of course be targeted by enemies. A big side effect of military control of the water is that important people have control of the water supply, so perhaps your wealthy individuals control this (or do whatever would happen to create planned conflict) and they continue to have good water.
answered Jul 3 at 4:46
Grant GarrisonGrant Garrison
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Presence of coastal cave systems
If your desert is set on a plateau and that the coast is very high compared to the water level, then the water could had eroded the rock and created the cave system. Such cave system would channel wind underground and condense the air moisture from the sea into underground pool.
The local population could have then carved the rock and created part of an underground city (think Mesolithic underground cities as seen in middle east). The speedy, moist winds would also provide cooling and air that would be less harsh compared to that of the desert. It would be very like Dune sietchs with their wind trap, except that it would be much more successful on the sea shore.
[EDIT typo]
answered Jul 3 at 17:13
werfuwerfu
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There could be springs of fresh water just off the shore. This would create pools of brackish water off the shore that would be pottable.
I am struggling to remember the details of something I read but somewhere in Polinesia or another series of islands it was discovered that there were such just off shore pools. They were identified as in use by anchent cultures as both inland catchment basins constructed by digging pits for rainwater or land springs and some beaches had similar carvings facing the pottable water. Until someone tested that salinity of the off shore water they could not explain what the carvings that marked drinkable water were facing the sea. Turns out the underground rivers were exiting at known locations and the fresh water was not well mixed with the sea water when it reached the surface. If you new where to go in your little boat you could get barrels full of slightly salts but healthy to drink water.
Your city could be on that lucky bit of the coast. Row a few meters off shore to the right spots and you can fill your boots so to speak. This could be the only location on the coast with such a resource which then explains how this city has a suffit but no others do (as anyone on any coast can desalinate and will pinch the idea and tech before long).
answered Jul 4 at 8:03
TafTTafT
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It's a coastal city with lots of sunshine in a modern setting. You have everything you need and more. All you have to do is desalinate the water and it's done. Took less than a minute research.
OK, you have to scale it a little better than in the link.
Channel the seawater to shallow fields, coated with water resistant foil to prevent seeping it to the ground. It should be a few cm water in each field. Transparent vinyl (or what it's called) close above it. It lets through the sunlight, speeding up the water evaporation. The vinyl catches the evaporated water droplets and with a slight tilt, they will flow to a prepared storage (or the agricultural fields). The salt remains, which they have to collect, but they can sell it for good money.
The amount of water is only dependent on the size of the fields.
edited Jul 2 at 22:42
Brythan
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answered Jul 2 at 17:45
LupusLupus
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If you don’t have access to modern materials you can achieve much the same result with rows of appropriately shaped clay jugs. It’s less efficient but much easier to achieve.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
Jul 2 at 18:08
8
$begingroup$
The idea is good, but the method described above would require huge facilities to yield enough water for farming. I think this link provides more options: Solar desalination
$endgroup$
– Alexander
Jul 2 at 18:13
$begingroup$
@Alexander I didn't dig deeply into the topic, I just remembered it from reading it in a novel (Release that Witch). You are right about farming. I didn't calculate yield or required area, just thought this method was the easiest. Thanks for the extra link!
$endgroup$
– Lupus
Jul 2 at 18:30
$begingroup$
Add smart technology to the vinyl, you can; 1) Allow in or magnify the most efficient solar energy into the distiller and 2) add capillaries in the vinyl to prevent fresh water dripping back into briny water below, or use ventilation to pull off the water vapor before it collects. If this system was built on a hill, facing the sun, then you can trickle the water down constantly, ensuring its shallow enough to evaporate in a timely manor. Added benefit, you can then collect the brine and evaporate even further to extract the sea salt for trade.
$endgroup$
– Sonvar
Jul 2 at 23:22
4
$begingroup$
If you don't try to collect the salt, but just let the stronger brine flow out the other end, you can get more water per unit area. (It rather depends how valuable salt is in this environment.)
$endgroup$
– Martin Bonner
Jul 3 at 9:03
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
It's a coastal city with lots of sunshine in a modern setting. You have everything you need and more. All you have to do is desalinate the water and it's done. Took less than a minute research.
OK, you have to scale it a little better than in the link.
Channel the seawater to shallow fields, coated with water resistant foil to prevent seeping it to the ground. It should be a few cm water in each field. Transparent vinyl (or what it's called) close above it. It lets through the sunlight, speeding up the water evaporation. The vinyl catches the evaporated water droplets and with a slight tilt, they will flow to a prepared storage (or the agricultural fields). The salt remains, which they have to collect, but they can sell it for good money.
The amount of water is only dependent on the size of the fields.
edited Jul 2 at 22:42
Brythan
22.7k9 gold badges45 silver badges89 bronze badges
answered Jul 2 at 17:45
LupusLupus
1,62120 bronze badges
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
If you don’t have access to modern materials you can achieve much the same result with rows of appropriately shaped clay jugs. It’s less efficient but much easier to achieve.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
Jul 2 at 18:08
8
$begingroup$
The idea is good, but the method described above would require huge facilities to yield enough water for farming. I think this link provides more options: Solar desalination
$endgroup$
– Alexander
Jul 2 at 18:13
$begingroup$
@Alexander I didn't dig deeply into the topic, I just remembered it from reading it in a novel (Release that Witch). You are right about farming. I didn't calculate yield or required area, just thought this method was the easiest. Thanks for the extra link!
$endgroup$
– Lupus
Jul 2 at 18:30
$begingroup$
Add smart technology to the vinyl, you can; 1) Allow in or magnify the most efficient solar energy into the distiller and 2) add capillaries in the vinyl to prevent fresh water dripping back into briny water below, or use ventilation to pull off the water vapor before it collects. If this system was built on a hill, facing the sun, then you can trickle the water down constantly, ensuring its shallow enough to evaporate in a timely manor. Added benefit, you can then collect the brine and evaporate even further to extract the sea salt for trade.
$endgroup$
– Sonvar
Jul 2 at 23:22
4
$begingroup$
If you don't try to collect the salt, but just let the stronger brine flow out the other end, you can get more water per unit area. (It rather depends how valuable salt is in this environment.)
$endgroup$
– Martin Bonner
Jul 3 at 9:03
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
It's a coastal city with lots of sunshine in a modern setting. You have everything you need and more. All you have to do is desalinate the water and it's done. Took less than a minute research.
OK, you have to scale it a little better than in the link.
Channel the seawater to shallow fields, coated with water resistant foil to prevent seeping it to the ground. It should be a few cm water in each field. Transparent vinyl (or what it's called) close above it. It lets through the sunlight, speeding up the water evaporation. The vinyl catches the evaporated water droplets and with a slight tilt, they will flow to a prepared storage (or the agricultural fields). The salt remains, which they have to collect, but they can sell it for good money.
The amount of water is only dependent on the size of the fields.
edited Jul 2 at 22:42
Brythan
22.7k9 gold badges45 silver badges89 bronze badges
answered Jul 2 at 17:45
LupusLupus
1,62120 bronze badges
$endgroup$
It's a coastal city with lots of sunshine in a modern setting. You have everything you need and more. All you have to do is desalinate the water and it's done. Took less than a minute research.
OK, you have to scale it a little better than in the link.
Channel the seawater to shallow fields, coated with water resistant foil to prevent seeping it to the ground. It should be a few cm water in each field. Transparent vinyl (or what it's called) close above it. It lets through the sunlight, speeding up the water evaporation. The vinyl catches the evaporated water droplets and with a slight tilt, they will flow to a prepared storage (or the agricultural fields). The salt remains, which they have to collect, but they can sell it for good money.
The amount of water is only dependent on the size of the fields.
edited Jul 2 at 22:42
Brythan
22.7k9 gold badges45 silver badges89 bronze badges
answered Jul 2 at 17:45
LupusLupus
1,62120 bronze badges
edited Jul 2 at 22:42
Brythan
22.7k9 gold badges45 silver badges89 bronze badges
edited Jul 2 at 22:42
Brythan
22.7k9 gold badges45 silver badges89 bronze badges
edited Jul 2 at 22:42
Brythan
22.7k9 gold badges45 silver badges89 bronze badges
22.7k9 gold badges45 silver badges89 bronze badges
answered Jul 2 at 17:45
LupusLupus
1,62120 bronze badges
answered Jul 2 at 17:45
LupusLupus
1,62120 bronze badges
answered Jul 2 at 17:45
LupusLupus
1,62120 bronze badges
1,62120 bronze badges
2
$begingroup$
If you don’t have access to modern materials you can achieve much the same result with rows of appropriately shaped clay jugs. It’s less efficient but much easier to achieve.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
Jul 2 at 18:08
8
$begingroup$
The idea is good, but the method described above would require huge facilities to yield enough water for farming. I think this link provides more options: Solar desalination
$endgroup$
– Alexander
Jul 2 at 18:13
$begingroup$
@Alexander I didn't dig deeply into the topic, I just remembered it from reading it in a novel (Release that Witch). You are right about farming. I didn't calculate yield or required area, just thought this method was the easiest. Thanks for the extra link!
$endgroup$
– Lupus
Jul 2 at 18:30
$begingroup$
Add smart technology to the vinyl, you can; 1) Allow in or magnify the most efficient solar energy into the distiller and 2) add capillaries in the vinyl to prevent fresh water dripping back into briny water below, or use ventilation to pull off the water vapor before it collects. If this system was built on a hill, facing the sun, then you can trickle the water down constantly, ensuring its shallow enough to evaporate in a timely manor. Added benefit, you can then collect the brine and evaporate even further to extract the sea salt for trade.
$endgroup$
– Sonvar
Jul 2 at 23:22
4
$begingroup$
If you don't try to collect the salt, but just let the stronger brine flow out the other end, you can get more water per unit area. (It rather depends how valuable salt is in this environment.)
$endgroup$
– Martin Bonner
Jul 3 at 9:03
|
show 2 more comments
2
$begingroup$
If you don’t have access to modern materials you can achieve much the same result with rows of appropriately shaped clay jugs. It’s less efficient but much easier to achieve.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
Jul 2 at 18:08
8
$begingroup$
The idea is good, but the method described above would require huge facilities to yield enough water for farming. I think this link provides more options: Solar desalination
$endgroup$
– Alexander
Jul 2 at 18:13
$begingroup$
@Alexander I didn't dig deeply into the topic, I just remembered it from reading it in a novel (Release that Witch). You are right about farming. I didn't calculate yield or required area, just thought this method was the easiest. Thanks for the extra link!
$endgroup$
– Lupus
Jul 2 at 18:30
$begingroup$
Add smart technology to the vinyl, you can; 1) Allow in or magnify the most efficient solar energy into the distiller and 2) add capillaries in the vinyl to prevent fresh water dripping back into briny water below, or use ventilation to pull off the water vapor before it collects. If this system was built on a hill, facing the sun, then you can trickle the water down constantly, ensuring its shallow enough to evaporate in a timely manor. Added benefit, you can then collect the brine and evaporate even further to extract the sea salt for trade.
$endgroup$
– Sonvar
Jul 2 at 23:22
4
$begingroup$
If you don't try to collect the salt, but just let the stronger brine flow out the other end, you can get more water per unit area. (It rather depends how valuable salt is in this environment.)
$endgroup$
– Martin Bonner
Jul 3 at 9:03
2
2
$begingroup$
If you don’t have access to modern materials you can achieve much the same result with rows of appropriately shaped clay jugs. It’s less efficient but much easier to achieve.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
Jul 2 at 18:08
$begingroup$
If you don’t have access to modern materials you can achieve much the same result with rows of appropriately shaped clay jugs. It’s less efficient but much easier to achieve.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
Jul 2 at 18:08
8
8
$begingroup$
The idea is good, but the method described above would require huge facilities to yield enough water for farming. I think this link provides more options: Solar desalination
$endgroup$
– Alexander
Jul 2 at 18:13
$begingroup$
The idea is good, but the method described above would require huge facilities to yield enough water for farming. I think this link provides more options: Solar desalination
$endgroup$
– Alexander
Jul 2 at 18:13
$begingroup$
@Alexander I didn't dig deeply into the topic, I just remembered it from reading it in a novel (Release that Witch). You are right about farming. I didn't calculate yield or required area, just thought this method was the easiest. Thanks for the extra link!
$endgroup$
– Lupus
Jul 2 at 18:30
$begingroup$
@Alexander I didn't dig deeply into the topic, I just remembered it from reading it in a novel (Release that Witch). You are right about farming. I didn't calculate yield or required area, just thought this method was the easiest. Thanks for the extra link!
$endgroup$
– Lupus
Jul 2 at 18:30
$begingroup$
Add smart technology to the vinyl, you can; 1) Allow in or magnify the most efficient solar energy into the distiller and 2) add capillaries in the vinyl to prevent fresh water dripping back into briny water below, or use ventilation to pull off the water vapor before it collects. If this system was built on a hill, facing the sun, then you can trickle the water down constantly, ensuring its shallow enough to evaporate in a timely manor. Added benefit, you can then collect the brine and evaporate even further to extract the sea salt for trade.
$endgroup$
– Sonvar
Jul 2 at 23:22
$begingroup$
Add smart technology to the vinyl, you can; 1) Allow in or magnify the most efficient solar energy into the distiller and 2) add capillaries in the vinyl to prevent fresh water dripping back into briny water below, or use ventilation to pull off the water vapor before it collects. If this system was built on a hill, facing the sun, then you can trickle the water down constantly, ensuring its shallow enough to evaporate in a timely manor. Added benefit, you can then collect the brine and evaporate even further to extract the sea salt for trade.
$endgroup$
– Sonvar
Jul 2 at 23:22
4
4
$begingroup$
If you don't try to collect the salt, but just let the stronger brine flow out the other end, you can get more water per unit area. (It rather depends how valuable salt is in this environment.)
$endgroup$
– Martin Bonner
Jul 3 at 9:03
$begingroup$
If you don't try to collect the salt, but just let the stronger brine flow out the other end, you can get more water per unit area. (It rather depends how valuable salt is in this environment.)
$endgroup$
– Martin Bonner
Jul 3 at 9:03
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Qanats.
https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1506
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qanat
A qanat or kariz is a gently sloping underground channel to transport
water from an aquifer or water well to surface for irrigation and
drinking, acting as an underground aqueduct. This is an old system of
water supply from a deep well with a series of vertical access shafts.
The qanats still create a reliable supply of water for human
settlements and irrigation in hot, arid, and semi-arid climates, but
the value of this system is directly related to the quality, volume,
and regularity of the water flow. Traditionally qanats are built by a
group of skilled laborers, muqannīs, with hand labor. The profession
historically paid well and was typically handed down from father to
son. According to most sources, the qanat technology was developed in
ancient Iran by the Persian people sometime in the early 1st
millennium BC...
Qanats are super duper cool. They are ancient engineering marvels which still do what they are supposed to do millennia later. These underground aqueducts move water from distant sources (often miles away!) to arid lands and offer a bunch of side benefits - in addition to clean water, qanats can provide cool air. Read on how having a qanat pass under your house offers cool air pulled up thru the house via a chimney.
answered Jul 2 at 18:27
WillkWillk
129k32 gold badges243 silver badges539 bronze badges
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
OP said no aquifers.
$endgroup$
– Michael
Jul 3 at 5:55
9
$begingroup$
@Michael they said no aquifers, but didn't provide scope. We don't know if they meant "no aquifers below", meaning wells wont work, or "no aquifers on the whole planet". If its the former, this is an acceptable solution.
$endgroup$
– Trotski94
Jul 3 at 8:14
1
$begingroup$
This solves the spotty tech + impoverished region dynamic's requirements.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
Jul 3 at 12:55
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Qanats.
https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1506
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qanat
A qanat or kariz is a gently sloping underground channel to transport
water from an aquifer or water well to surface for irrigation and
drinking, acting as an underground aqueduct. This is an old system of
water supply from a deep well with a series of vertical access shafts.
The qanats still create a reliable supply of water for human
settlements and irrigation in hot, arid, and semi-arid climates, but
the value of this system is directly related to the quality, volume,
and regularity of the water flow. Traditionally qanats are built by a
group of skilled laborers, muqannīs, with hand labor. The profession
historically paid well and was typically handed down from father to
son. According to most sources, the qanat technology was developed in
ancient Iran by the Persian people sometime in the early 1st
millennium BC...
Qanats are super duper cool. They are ancient engineering marvels which still do what they are supposed to do millennia later. These underground aqueducts move water from distant sources (often miles away!) to arid lands and offer a bunch of side benefits - in addition to clean water, qanats can provide cool air. Read on how having a qanat pass under your house offers cool air pulled up thru the house via a chimney.
answered Jul 2 at 18:27
WillkWillk
129k32 gold badges243 silver badges539 bronze badges
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
OP said no aquifers.
$endgroup$
– Michael
Jul 3 at 5:55
9
$begingroup$
@Michael they said no aquifers, but didn't provide scope. We don't know if they meant "no aquifers below", meaning wells wont work, or "no aquifers on the whole planet". If its the former, this is an acceptable solution.
$endgroup$
– Trotski94
Jul 3 at 8:14
1
$begingroup$
This solves the spotty tech + impoverished region dynamic's requirements.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
Jul 3 at 12:55
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Qanats.
https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1506
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qanat
A qanat or kariz is a gently sloping underground channel to transport
water from an aquifer or water well to surface for irrigation and
drinking, acting as an underground aqueduct. This is an old system of
water supply from a deep well with a series of vertical access shafts.
The qanats still create a reliable supply of water for human
settlements and irrigation in hot, arid, and semi-arid climates, but
the value of this system is directly related to the quality, volume,
and regularity of the water flow. Traditionally qanats are built by a
group of skilled laborers, muqannīs, with hand labor. The profession
historically paid well and was typically handed down from father to
son. According to most sources, the qanat technology was developed in
ancient Iran by the Persian people sometime in the early 1st
millennium BC...
Qanats are super duper cool. They are ancient engineering marvels which still do what they are supposed to do millennia later. These underground aqueducts move water from distant sources (often miles away!) to arid lands and offer a bunch of side benefits - in addition to clean water, qanats can provide cool air. Read on how having a qanat pass under your house offers cool air pulled up thru the house via a chimney.
answered Jul 2 at 18:27
WillkWillk
129k32 gold badges243 silver badges539 bronze badges
$endgroup$
Qanats.
https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1506
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qanat
A qanat or kariz is a gently sloping underground channel to transport
water from an aquifer or water well to surface for irrigation and
drinking, acting as an underground aqueduct. This is an old system of
water supply from a deep well with a series of vertical access shafts.
The qanats still create a reliable supply of water for human
settlements and irrigation in hot, arid, and semi-arid climates, but
the value of this system is directly related to the quality, volume,
and regularity of the water flow. Traditionally qanats are built by a
group of skilled laborers, muqannīs, with hand labor. The profession
historically paid well and was typically handed down from father to
son. According to most sources, the qanat technology was developed in
ancient Iran by the Persian people sometime in the early 1st
millennium BC...
Qanats are super duper cool. They are ancient engineering marvels which still do what they are supposed to do millennia later. These underground aqueducts move water from distant sources (often miles away!) to arid lands and offer a bunch of side benefits - in addition to clean water, qanats can provide cool air. Read on how having a qanat pass under your house offers cool air pulled up thru the house via a chimney.
answered Jul 2 at 18:27
WillkWillk
129k32 gold badges243 silver badges539 bronze badges
answered Jul 2 at 18:27
WillkWillk
129k32 gold badges243 silver badges539 bronze badges
answered Jul 2 at 18:27
WillkWillk
129k32 gold badges243 silver badges539 bronze badges
answered Jul 2 at 18:27
WillkWillk
129k32 gold badges243 silver badges539 bronze badges
129k32 gold badges243 silver badges539 bronze badges
2
$begingroup$
OP said no aquifers.
$endgroup$
– Michael
Jul 3 at 5:55
9
$begingroup$
@Michael they said no aquifers, but didn't provide scope. We don't know if they meant "no aquifers below", meaning wells wont work, or "no aquifers on the whole planet". If its the former, this is an acceptable solution.
$endgroup$
– Trotski94
Jul 3 at 8:14
1
$begingroup$
This solves the spotty tech + impoverished region dynamic's requirements.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
Jul 3 at 12:55
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
OP said no aquifers.
$endgroup$
– Michael
Jul 3 at 5:55
9
$begingroup$
@Michael they said no aquifers, but didn't provide scope. We don't know if they meant "no aquifers below", meaning wells wont work, or "no aquifers on the whole planet". If its the former, this is an acceptable solution.
$endgroup$
– Trotski94
Jul 3 at 8:14
1
$begingroup$
This solves the spotty tech + impoverished region dynamic's requirements.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
Jul 3 at 12:55
2
2
$begingroup$
OP said no aquifers.
$endgroup$
– Michael
Jul 3 at 5:55
$begingroup$
OP said no aquifers.
$endgroup$
– Michael
Jul 3 at 5:55
9
9
$begingroup$
@Michael they said no aquifers, but didn't provide scope. We don't know if they meant "no aquifers below", meaning wells wont work, or "no aquifers on the whole planet". If its the former, this is an acceptable solution.
$endgroup$
– Trotski94
Jul 3 at 8:14
$begingroup$
@Michael they said no aquifers, but didn't provide scope. We don't know if they meant "no aquifers below", meaning wells wont work, or "no aquifers on the whole planet". If its the former, this is an acceptable solution.
$endgroup$
– Trotski94
Jul 3 at 8:14
1
1
$begingroup$
This solves the spotty tech + impoverished region dynamic's requirements.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
Jul 3 at 12:55
$begingroup$
This solves the spotty tech + impoverished region dynamic's requirements.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
Jul 3 at 12:55
add a comment |
$begingroup$
An extreme possibility, which requires some suspension of belief: This town lives in a small plain surrounded by mountains. Local winds bring heavy fog 24/7 which is trapped in large collector/condensers.
answered Jul 2 at 17:31
Carl WitthoftCarl Witthoft
6625 silver badges7 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Not that much suspension of disbelief. There are lizards and beetles that use exactly this tactic to survive in coastal areas where wind in the mornings draws (relatively) moist air over the dunes.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
Jul 2 at 18:05
4
$begingroup$
This is a real thing: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog_collection
$endgroup$
– pluckedkiwi
Jul 2 at 20:58
1
$begingroup$
Many forms of life rely on this very process. One place that comes to mind is the desert coast of Angola and Nambia )the desert names escape me right now) but it hardly ever rains there, and the life rely on morning fog to sustain them for the entire day.
$endgroup$
– Sonvar
Jul 2 at 23:26
$begingroup$
I understand @JoeBloggs , but my concern is that might not be enough water to meet the needs of human beings.
$endgroup$
– Carl Witthoft
Jul 3 at 15:35
$begingroup$
@CarlWitthoft: Said needs can be scaled down, compared to the modern Western World, and the relative scarcity could actually be a plot hook, with new arrivals being received poorly as their presence increase the pressure on the meager supply.
$endgroup$
– Matthieu M.
Jul 4 at 12:38
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
An extreme possibility, which requires some suspension of belief: This town lives in a small plain surrounded by mountains. Local winds bring heavy fog 24/7 which is trapped in large collector/condensers.
answered Jul 2 at 17:31
Carl WitthoftCarl Witthoft
6625 silver badges7 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Not that much suspension of disbelief. There are lizards and beetles that use exactly this tactic to survive in coastal areas where wind in the mornings draws (relatively) moist air over the dunes.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
Jul 2 at 18:05
4
$begingroup$
This is a real thing: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog_collection
$endgroup$
– pluckedkiwi
Jul 2 at 20:58
1
$begingroup$
Many forms of life rely on this very process. One place that comes to mind is the desert coast of Angola and Nambia )the desert names escape me right now) but it hardly ever rains there, and the life rely on morning fog to sustain them for the entire day.
$endgroup$
– Sonvar
Jul 2 at 23:26
$begingroup$
I understand @JoeBloggs , but my concern is that might not be enough water to meet the needs of human beings.
$endgroup$
– Carl Witthoft
Jul 3 at 15:35
$begingroup$
@CarlWitthoft: Said needs can be scaled down, compared to the modern Western World, and the relative scarcity could actually be a plot hook, with new arrivals being received poorly as their presence increase the pressure on the meager supply.
$endgroup$
– Matthieu M.
Jul 4 at 12:38
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
An extreme possibility, which requires some suspension of belief: This town lives in a small plain surrounded by mountains. Local winds bring heavy fog 24/7 which is trapped in large collector/condensers.
answered Jul 2 at 17:31
Carl WitthoftCarl Witthoft
6625 silver badges7 bronze badges
$endgroup$
An extreme possibility, which requires some suspension of belief: This town lives in a small plain surrounded by mountains. Local winds bring heavy fog 24/7 which is trapped in large collector/condensers.
answered Jul 2 at 17:31
Carl WitthoftCarl Witthoft
6625 silver badges7 bronze badges
answered Jul 2 at 17:31
Carl WitthoftCarl Witthoft
6625 silver badges7 bronze badges
answered Jul 2 at 17:31
Carl WitthoftCarl Witthoft
6625 silver badges7 bronze badges
answered Jul 2 at 17:31
Carl WitthoftCarl Witthoft
6625 silver badges7 bronze badges
6625 silver badges7 bronze badges
$begingroup$
Not that much suspension of disbelief. There are lizards and beetles that use exactly this tactic to survive in coastal areas where wind in the mornings draws (relatively) moist air over the dunes.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
Jul 2 at 18:05
4
$begingroup$
This is a real thing: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog_collection
$endgroup$
– pluckedkiwi
Jul 2 at 20:58
1
$begingroup$
Many forms of life rely on this very process. One place that comes to mind is the desert coast of Angola and Nambia )the desert names escape me right now) but it hardly ever rains there, and the life rely on morning fog to sustain them for the entire day.
$endgroup$
– Sonvar
Jul 2 at 23:26
$begingroup$
I understand @JoeBloggs , but my concern is that might not be enough water to meet the needs of human beings.
$endgroup$
– Carl Witthoft
Jul 3 at 15:35
$begingroup$
@CarlWitthoft: Said needs can be scaled down, compared to the modern Western World, and the relative scarcity could actually be a plot hook, with new arrivals being received poorly as their presence increase the pressure on the meager supply.
$endgroup$
– Matthieu M.
Jul 4 at 12:38
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Not that much suspension of disbelief. There are lizards and beetles that use exactly this tactic to survive in coastal areas where wind in the mornings draws (relatively) moist air over the dunes.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
Jul 2 at 18:05
4
$begingroup$
This is a real thing: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog_collection
$endgroup$
– pluckedkiwi
Jul 2 at 20:58
1
$begingroup$
Many forms of life rely on this very process. One place that comes to mind is the desert coast of Angola and Nambia )the desert names escape me right now) but it hardly ever rains there, and the life rely on morning fog to sustain them for the entire day.
$endgroup$
– Sonvar
Jul 2 at 23:26
$begingroup$
I understand @JoeBloggs , but my concern is that might not be enough water to meet the needs of human beings.
$endgroup$
– Carl Witthoft
Jul 3 at 15:35
$begingroup$
@CarlWitthoft: Said needs can be scaled down, compared to the modern Western World, and the relative scarcity could actually be a plot hook, with new arrivals being received poorly as their presence increase the pressure on the meager supply.
$endgroup$
– Matthieu M.
Jul 4 at 12:38
$begingroup$
Not that much suspension of disbelief. There are lizards and beetles that use exactly this tactic to survive in coastal areas where wind in the mornings draws (relatively) moist air over the dunes.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
Jul 2 at 18:05
$begingroup$
Not that much suspension of disbelief. There are lizards and beetles that use exactly this tactic to survive in coastal areas where wind in the mornings draws (relatively) moist air over the dunes.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
Jul 2 at 18:05
4
4
$begingroup$
This is a real thing: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog_collection
$endgroup$
– pluckedkiwi
Jul 2 at 20:58
$begingroup$
This is a real thing: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog_collection
$endgroup$
– pluckedkiwi
Jul 2 at 20:58
1
1
$begingroup$
Many forms of life rely on this very process. One place that comes to mind is the desert coast of Angola and Nambia )the desert names escape me right now) but it hardly ever rains there, and the life rely on morning fog to sustain them for the entire day.
$endgroup$
– Sonvar
Jul 2 at 23:26
$begingroup$
Many forms of life rely on this very process. One place that comes to mind is the desert coast of Angola and Nambia )the desert names escape me right now) but it hardly ever rains there, and the life rely on morning fog to sustain them for the entire day.
$endgroup$
– Sonvar
Jul 2 at 23:26
$begingroup$
I understand @JoeBloggs , but my concern is that might not be enough water to meet the needs of human beings.
$endgroup$
– Carl Witthoft
Jul 3 at 15:35
$begingroup$
I understand @JoeBloggs , but my concern is that might not be enough water to meet the needs of human beings.
$endgroup$
– Carl Witthoft
Jul 3 at 15:35
$begingroup$
@CarlWitthoft: Said needs can be scaled down, compared to the modern Western World, and the relative scarcity could actually be a plot hook, with new arrivals being received poorly as their presence increase the pressure on the meager supply.
$endgroup$
– Matthieu M.
Jul 4 at 12:38
$begingroup$
@CarlWitthoft: Said needs can be scaled down, compared to the modern Western World, and the relative scarcity could actually be a plot hook, with new arrivals being received poorly as their presence increase the pressure on the meager supply.
$endgroup$
– Matthieu M.
Jul 4 at 12:38
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Actual solutions used in the coast of the Atacama desert:
Fog collection. The wind from the sea does bring some water, which you can collect, but it's limited, not very scalable.
Update: limitations of fog collection include the maximum water content of fog (saturation) and fog collector efficiency (which depends on wind speed). Also, according to the OAS: Their water supply can still be contaminated by windborne dust, birds, and insects. The moisture collected can promote growth of mold and other possibly toxic microorganisms on the mesh.
As a rule-of-thumb reference, this paper states that in optimal conditions a fog collector can theoretically collect 75%-95% of the water content of air at wind speeds between 2 and 8 m/s. Unfortunately these conditions worsen with bigger size of the collector. Assuming the best throughput takes place at top speed AND with a decent content of water in air (usually ranging in the grams/cubic meter, say 10), you get a few dozen grams of water per sqare meter of collector per second ($8times10times.95=76,g$), but can optimal conditions be sustained all day, all days? Typical throughput in the Atacama desert (I assume desert=dry, Atacama being one of the driest, though) is around $5,lt$ per square meter of collector per day.
Desalination of seawater is still expensive, not very scalable. You can lower standards (taste, purity) to get a little more water, which could fuel your conflicts. Military sea vessels get water through desalination, using a combo of temperature, osmosis and pressure (thanks to their engines).
Other:
- Pipes from oases.
- Underground streams.
- Water trucks.
All in all, current technology will limit your settlement's population, unless you can bring water with pipes or something else.
FWIW, cities in the Atacama desert rely on external sources, and need to ration water.
answered Jul 2 at 19:29
RafaelRafael
1,9108 silver badges15 bronze badges
$endgroup$
7
$begingroup$
There's an important point to be made here that's a fundamental Frame Challenge. Oceans full of water on a desert (aka "hot") planet like Tatooine will evaporate something awful. That water vapor will go someplace. The idea of fog collection is excellent and deserving of attention. +1
$endgroup$
– JBH
Jul 3 at 4:33
$begingroup$
@JBH Agreed, but fog in Atacama gets very dense at times. Also upper bounds exist: air saturation (above which there would be rain, which would prevent desertification) and fog collector efficiency (not even close to perfect)
$endgroup$
– Rafael
Jul 3 at 13:13
1
$begingroup$
Well, I just found out that efficiency can theoretically get to 95%, but more typically ranges below 50%
$endgroup$
– Rafael
Jul 3 at 13:44
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Actual solutions used in the coast of the Atacama desert:
Fog collection. The wind from the sea does bring some water, which you can collect, but it's limited, not very scalable.
Update: limitations of fog collection include the maximum water content of fog (saturation) and fog collector efficiency (which depends on wind speed). Also, according to the OAS: Their water supply can still be contaminated by windborne dust, birds, and insects. The moisture collected can promote growth of mold and other possibly toxic microorganisms on the mesh.
As a rule-of-thumb reference, this paper states that in optimal conditions a fog collector can theoretically collect 75%-95% of the water content of air at wind speeds between 2 and 8 m/s. Unfortunately these conditions worsen with bigger size of the collector. Assuming the best throughput takes place at top speed AND with a decent content of water in air (usually ranging in the grams/cubic meter, say 10), you get a few dozen grams of water per sqare meter of collector per second ($8times10times.95=76,g$), but can optimal conditions be sustained all day, all days? Typical throughput in the Atacama desert (I assume desert=dry, Atacama being one of the driest, though) is around $5,lt$ per square meter of collector per day.
Desalination of seawater is still expensive, not very scalable. You can lower standards (taste, purity) to get a little more water, which could fuel your conflicts. Military sea vessels get water through desalination, using a combo of temperature, osmosis and pressure (thanks to their engines).
Other:
- Pipes from oases.
- Underground streams.
- Water trucks.
All in all, current technology will limit your settlement's population, unless you can bring water with pipes or something else.
FWIW, cities in the Atacama desert rely on external sources, and need to ration water.
answered Jul 2 at 19:29
RafaelRafael
1,9108 silver badges15 bronze badges
$endgroup$
7
$begingroup$
There's an important point to be made here that's a fundamental Frame Challenge. Oceans full of water on a desert (aka "hot") planet like Tatooine will evaporate something awful. That water vapor will go someplace. The idea of fog collection is excellent and deserving of attention. +1
$endgroup$
– JBH
Jul 3 at 4:33
$begingroup$
@JBH Agreed, but fog in Atacama gets very dense at times. Also upper bounds exist: air saturation (above which there would be rain, which would prevent desertification) and fog collector efficiency (not even close to perfect)
$endgroup$
– Rafael
Jul 3 at 13:13
1
$begingroup$
Well, I just found out that efficiency can theoretically get to 95%, but more typically ranges below 50%
$endgroup$
– Rafael
Jul 3 at 13:44
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Actual solutions used in the coast of the Atacama desert:
Fog collection. The wind from the sea does bring some water, which you can collect, but it's limited, not very scalable.
Update: limitations of fog collection include the maximum water content of fog (saturation) and fog collector efficiency (which depends on wind speed). Also, according to the OAS: Their water supply can still be contaminated by windborne dust, birds, and insects. The moisture collected can promote growth of mold and other possibly toxic microorganisms on the mesh.
As a rule-of-thumb reference, this paper states that in optimal conditions a fog collector can theoretically collect 75%-95% of the water content of air at wind speeds between 2 and 8 m/s. Unfortunately these conditions worsen with bigger size of the collector. Assuming the best throughput takes place at top speed AND with a decent content of water in air (usually ranging in the grams/cubic meter, say 10), you get a few dozen grams of water per sqare meter of collector per second ($8times10times.95=76,g$), but can optimal conditions be sustained all day, all days? Typical throughput in the Atacama desert (I assume desert=dry, Atacama being one of the driest, though) is around $5,lt$ per square meter of collector per day.
Desalination of seawater is still expensive, not very scalable. You can lower standards (taste, purity) to get a little more water, which could fuel your conflicts. Military sea vessels get water through desalination, using a combo of temperature, osmosis and pressure (thanks to their engines).
Other:
- Pipes from oases.
- Underground streams.
- Water trucks.
All in all, current technology will limit your settlement's population, unless you can bring water with pipes or something else.
FWIW, cities in the Atacama desert rely on external sources, and need to ration water.
answered Jul 2 at 19:29
RafaelRafael
1,9108 silver badges15 bronze badges
$endgroup$
Actual solutions used in the coast of the Atacama desert:
Fog collection. The wind from the sea does bring some water, which you can collect, but it's limited, not very scalable.
Update: limitations of fog collection include the maximum water content of fog (saturation) and fog collector efficiency (which depends on wind speed). Also, according to the OAS: Their water supply can still be contaminated by windborne dust, birds, and insects. The moisture collected can promote growth of mold and other possibly toxic microorganisms on the mesh.
As a rule-of-thumb reference, this paper states that in optimal conditions a fog collector can theoretically collect 75%-95% of the water content of air at wind speeds between 2 and 8 m/s. Unfortunately these conditions worsen with bigger size of the collector. Assuming the best throughput takes place at top speed AND with a decent content of water in air (usually ranging in the grams/cubic meter, say 10), you get a few dozen grams of water per sqare meter of collector per second ($8times10times.95=76,g$), but can optimal conditions be sustained all day, all days? Typical throughput in the Atacama desert (I assume desert=dry, Atacama being one of the driest, though) is around $5,lt$ per square meter of collector per day.
Desalination of seawater is still expensive, not very scalable. You can lower standards (taste, purity) to get a little more water, which could fuel your conflicts. Military sea vessels get water through desalination, using a combo of temperature, osmosis and pressure (thanks to their engines).
Other:
- Pipes from oases.
- Underground streams.
- Water trucks.
All in all, current technology will limit your settlement's population, unless you can bring water with pipes or something else.
FWIW, cities in the Atacama desert rely on external sources, and need to ration water.
answered Jul 2 at 19:29
RafaelRafael
1,9108 silver badges15 bronze badges
edited Jul 3 at 13:42
answered Jul 2 at 19:29
RafaelRafael
1,9108 silver badges15 bronze badges
answered Jul 2 at 19:29
RafaelRafael
1,9108 silver badges15 bronze badges
answered Jul 2 at 19:29
RafaelRafael
1,9108 silver badges15 bronze badges
1,9108 silver badges15 bronze badges
7
$begingroup$
There's an important point to be made here that's a fundamental Frame Challenge. Oceans full of water on a desert (aka "hot") planet like Tatooine will evaporate something awful. That water vapor will go someplace. The idea of fog collection is excellent and deserving of attention. +1
$endgroup$
– JBH
Jul 3 at 4:33
$begingroup$
@JBH Agreed, but fog in Atacama gets very dense at times. Also upper bounds exist: air saturation (above which there would be rain, which would prevent desertification) and fog collector efficiency (not even close to perfect)
$endgroup$
– Rafael
Jul 3 at 13:13
1
$begingroup$
Well, I just found out that efficiency can theoretically get to 95%, but more typically ranges below 50%
$endgroup$
– Rafael
Jul 3 at 13:44
add a comment |
7
$begingroup$
There's an important point to be made here that's a fundamental Frame Challenge. Oceans full of water on a desert (aka "hot") planet like Tatooine will evaporate something awful. That water vapor will go someplace. The idea of fog collection is excellent and deserving of attention. +1
$endgroup$
– JBH
Jul 3 at 4:33
$begingroup$
@JBH Agreed, but fog in Atacama gets very dense at times. Also upper bounds exist: air saturation (above which there would be rain, which would prevent desertification) and fog collector efficiency (not even close to perfect)
$endgroup$
– Rafael
Jul 3 at 13:13
1
$begingroup$
Well, I just found out that efficiency can theoretically get to 95%, but more typically ranges below 50%
$endgroup$
– Rafael
Jul 3 at 13:44
7
7
$begingroup$
There's an important point to be made here that's a fundamental Frame Challenge. Oceans full of water on a desert (aka "hot") planet like Tatooine will evaporate something awful. That water vapor will go someplace. The idea of fog collection is excellent and deserving of attention. +1
$endgroup$
– JBH
Jul 3 at 4:33
$begingroup$
There's an important point to be made here that's a fundamental Frame Challenge. Oceans full of water on a desert (aka "hot") planet like Tatooine will evaporate something awful. That water vapor will go someplace. The idea of fog collection is excellent and deserving of attention. +1
$endgroup$
– JBH
Jul 3 at 4:33
$begingroup$
@JBH Agreed, but fog in Atacama gets very dense at times. Also upper bounds exist: air saturation (above which there would be rain, which would prevent desertification) and fog collector efficiency (not even close to perfect)
$endgroup$
– Rafael
Jul 3 at 13:13
$begingroup$
@JBH Agreed, but fog in Atacama gets very dense at times. Also upper bounds exist: air saturation (above which there would be rain, which would prevent desertification) and fog collector efficiency (not even close to perfect)
$endgroup$
– Rafael
Jul 3 at 13:13
1
1
$begingroup$
Well, I just found out that efficiency can theoretically get to 95%, but more typically ranges below 50%
$endgroup$
– Rafael
Jul 3 at 13:44
$begingroup$
Well, I just found out that efficiency can theoretically get to 95%, but more typically ranges below 50%
$endgroup$
– Rafael
Jul 3 at 13:44
add a comment |
$begingroup$
@Lupus just reminded me that I should pay a LOT more attention to other answers! His answer is this answer and it was posted before mine. Please go upvote his answer! It's a good answer! Thanks!
Behold! A time-tested method for desalinating water
Wiki how shows us a modern method similar to that I used as a teen in the Scouts. (Image from Wiki How.)
The process is simple: evaporate the salt water and let it condense on plastic, then drain the plastic someplace useful.
Here is a video showing how to do it with some plastic bottles found on the beach.
Here is a video showing a larger operation.
This system can be easily scaled so long as you can support whatever material is being used to condense the water. Honestly, it's conceivable you could do this over whole acres, letting in seawater through a gate and draining into a cistern.
answered Jul 2 at 18:10
JBHJBH
56.9k9 gold badges130 silver badges273 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
You linked the same thing I did, with embedded picture and extra videos. Great minds think alike! :P
$endgroup$
– Lupus
Jul 2 at 22:55
$begingroup$
@Lupus Aaah! I apologize! The two answers were within ~20 minutes of each other and I obviously wasn't paying attention. I'll edit my answer to direct everyone to you. Sorry about that!
$endgroup$
– JBH
Jul 3 at 3:46
$begingroup$
No problem, really. It was an obvious answer to me, so didn't put much effort into my answer. Since then I learned some nice stuff from the other answers, including yours.
$endgroup$
– Lupus
Jul 3 at 4:16
add a comment |
$begingroup$
@Lupus just reminded me that I should pay a LOT more attention to other answers! His answer is this answer and it was posted before mine. Please go upvote his answer! It's a good answer! Thanks!
Behold! A time-tested method for desalinating water
Wiki how shows us a modern method similar to that I used as a teen in the Scouts. (Image from Wiki How.)
The process is simple: evaporate the salt water and let it condense on plastic, then drain the plastic someplace useful.
Here is a video showing how to do it with some plastic bottles found on the beach.
Here is a video showing a larger operation.
This system can be easily scaled so long as you can support whatever material is being used to condense the water. Honestly, it's conceivable you could do this over whole acres, letting in seawater through a gate and draining into a cistern.
answered Jul 2 at 18:10
JBHJBH
56.9k9 gold badges130 silver badges273 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
You linked the same thing I did, with embedded picture and extra videos. Great minds think alike! :P
$endgroup$
– Lupus
Jul 2 at 22:55
$begingroup$
@Lupus Aaah! I apologize! The two answers were within ~20 minutes of each other and I obviously wasn't paying attention. I'll edit my answer to direct everyone to you. Sorry about that!
$endgroup$
– JBH
Jul 3 at 3:46
$begingroup$
No problem, really. It was an obvious answer to me, so didn't put much effort into my answer. Since then I learned some nice stuff from the other answers, including yours.
$endgroup$
– Lupus
Jul 3 at 4:16
add a comment |
$begingroup$
@Lupus just reminded me that I should pay a LOT more attention to other answers! His answer is this answer and it was posted before mine. Please go upvote his answer! It's a good answer! Thanks!
Behold! A time-tested method for desalinating water
Wiki how shows us a modern method similar to that I used as a teen in the Scouts. (Image from Wiki How.)
The process is simple: evaporate the salt water and let it condense on plastic, then drain the plastic someplace useful.
Here is a video showing how to do it with some plastic bottles found on the beach.
Here is a video showing a larger operation.
This system can be easily scaled so long as you can support whatever material is being used to condense the water. Honestly, it's conceivable you could do this over whole acres, letting in seawater through a gate and draining into a cistern.
answered Jul 2 at 18:10
JBHJBH
56.9k9 gold badges130 silver badges273 bronze badges
$endgroup$
@Lupus just reminded me that I should pay a LOT more attention to other answers! His answer is this answer and it was posted before mine. Please go upvote his answer! It's a good answer! Thanks!
Behold! A time-tested method for desalinating water
Wiki how shows us a modern method similar to that I used as a teen in the Scouts. (Image from Wiki How.)
The process is simple: evaporate the salt water and let it condense on plastic, then drain the plastic someplace useful.
Here is a video showing how to do it with some plastic bottles found on the beach.
Here is a video showing a larger operation.
This system can be easily scaled so long as you can support whatever material is being used to condense the water. Honestly, it's conceivable you could do this over whole acres, letting in seawater through a gate and draining into a cistern.
answered Jul 2 at 18:10
JBHJBH
56.9k9 gold badges130 silver badges273 bronze badges
edited Jul 3 at 3:47
answered Jul 2 at 18:10
JBHJBH
56.9k9 gold badges130 silver badges273 bronze badges
answered Jul 2 at 18:10
JBHJBH
56.9k9 gold badges130 silver badges273 bronze badges
answered Jul 2 at 18:10
JBHJBH
56.9k9 gold badges130 silver badges273 bronze badges
56.9k9 gold badges130 silver badges273 bronze badges
$begingroup$
You linked the same thing I did, with embedded picture and extra videos. Great minds think alike! :P
$endgroup$
– Lupus
Jul 2 at 22:55
$begingroup$
@Lupus Aaah! I apologize! The two answers were within ~20 minutes of each other and I obviously wasn't paying attention. I'll edit my answer to direct everyone to you. Sorry about that!
$endgroup$
– JBH
Jul 3 at 3:46
$begingroup$
No problem, really. It was an obvious answer to me, so didn't put much effort into my answer. Since then I learned some nice stuff from the other answers, including yours.
$endgroup$
– Lupus
Jul 3 at 4:16
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You linked the same thing I did, with embedded picture and extra videos. Great minds think alike! :P
$endgroup$
– Lupus
Jul 2 at 22:55
$begingroup$
@Lupus Aaah! I apologize! The two answers were within ~20 minutes of each other and I obviously wasn't paying attention. I'll edit my answer to direct everyone to you. Sorry about that!
$endgroup$
– JBH
Jul 3 at 3:46
$begingroup$
No problem, really. It was an obvious answer to me, so didn't put much effort into my answer. Since then I learned some nice stuff from the other answers, including yours.
$endgroup$
– Lupus
Jul 3 at 4:16
$begingroup$
You linked the same thing I did, with embedded picture and extra videos. Great minds think alike! :P
$endgroup$
– Lupus
Jul 2 at 22:55
$begingroup$
You linked the same thing I did, with embedded picture and extra videos. Great minds think alike! :P
$endgroup$
– Lupus
Jul 2 at 22:55
$begingroup$
@Lupus Aaah! I apologize! The two answers were within ~20 minutes of each other and I obviously wasn't paying attention. I'll edit my answer to direct everyone to you. Sorry about that!
$endgroup$
– JBH
Jul 3 at 3:46
$begingroup$
@Lupus Aaah! I apologize! The two answers were within ~20 minutes of each other and I obviously wasn't paying attention. I'll edit my answer to direct everyone to you. Sorry about that!
$endgroup$
– JBH
Jul 3 at 3:46
$begingroup$
No problem, really. It was an obvious answer to me, so didn't put much effort into my answer. Since then I learned some nice stuff from the other answers, including yours.
$endgroup$
– Lupus
Jul 3 at 4:16
$begingroup$
No problem, really. It was an obvious answer to me, so didn't put much effort into my answer. Since then I learned some nice stuff from the other answers, including yours.
$endgroup$
– Lupus
Jul 3 at 4:16
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Assuming your oceans are salt water, these are a few ideas that occurred to me:
Use wide-bandgap semiconductors to perform photo-electrolysis -- separating the hydrogen and oxygen using photons ( 2 photons + 2 H2O -> 2 H2 + O2 ). This is a technical possibility today, the development to make it engineering solution is still in progress. Then, ignite the gases and you have pure H2O again.
Evaporators:
The village has dug channels for water at high tide to fill wide shallow ponds enclosed in plastic tarping. The heat of the sun evaporates the water, leaving the salt behind, then water is condensed in shaded metal tubes that act as heat exchangers -- looks like large stills
Orthographic lifting + modified natural caves + passive heat exchangers:
The village sits on a wide peninsula surrounded by mountains that funnel the air higher and higher to a canyon or pass at the top. The mountains are honeycombed with natural caves, that people extended using explosives so they open on the other side of the mountains.
The moist winds are cooled as they rise -- a consequence of orthographic lifting -- and air going into the caves is cooled further. The water condenses in underground reservoirs. This all only works because of the strange and unique geography and limestone or sandstone mountains in this area.
answered Jul 2 at 18:05
EDLEDL
3,0303 silver badges19 bronze badges
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
It's gotta be said! "Luckily, in the history of humanity, nothing bad has ever happened from lighting hydrogen on fire....." :-)
$endgroup$
– JBH
Jul 3 at 4:30
1
$begingroup$
@JBH, as long as the H2 concentration stays below 8% there will be no reenactments of the Hindenburg.
$endgroup$
– EDL
Jul 3 at 5:08
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Assuming your oceans are salt water, these are a few ideas that occurred to me:
Use wide-bandgap semiconductors to perform photo-electrolysis -- separating the hydrogen and oxygen using photons ( 2 photons + 2 H2O -> 2 H2 + O2 ). This is a technical possibility today, the development to make it engineering solution is still in progress. Then, ignite the gases and you have pure H2O again.
Evaporators:
The village has dug channels for water at high tide to fill wide shallow ponds enclosed in plastic tarping. The heat of the sun evaporates the water, leaving the salt behind, then water is condensed in shaded metal tubes that act as heat exchangers -- looks like large stills
Orthographic lifting + modified natural caves + passive heat exchangers:
The village sits on a wide peninsula surrounded by mountains that funnel the air higher and higher to a canyon or pass at the top. The mountains are honeycombed with natural caves, that people extended using explosives so they open on the other side of the mountains.
The moist winds are cooled as they rise -- a consequence of orthographic lifting -- and air going into the caves is cooled further. The water condenses in underground reservoirs. This all only works because of the strange and unique geography and limestone or sandstone mountains in this area.
answered Jul 2 at 18:05
EDLEDL
3,0303 silver badges19 bronze badges
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
It's gotta be said! "Luckily, in the history of humanity, nothing bad has ever happened from lighting hydrogen on fire....." :-)
$endgroup$
– JBH
Jul 3 at 4:30
1
$begingroup$
@JBH, as long as the H2 concentration stays below 8% there will be no reenactments of the Hindenburg.
$endgroup$
– EDL
Jul 3 at 5:08
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Assuming your oceans are salt water, these are a few ideas that occurred to me:
Use wide-bandgap semiconductors to perform photo-electrolysis -- separating the hydrogen and oxygen using photons ( 2 photons + 2 H2O -> 2 H2 + O2 ). This is a technical possibility today, the development to make it engineering solution is still in progress. Then, ignite the gases and you have pure H2O again.
Evaporators:
The village has dug channels for water at high tide to fill wide shallow ponds enclosed in plastic tarping. The heat of the sun evaporates the water, leaving the salt behind, then water is condensed in shaded metal tubes that act as heat exchangers -- looks like large stills
Orthographic lifting + modified natural caves + passive heat exchangers:
The village sits on a wide peninsula surrounded by mountains that funnel the air higher and higher to a canyon or pass at the top. The mountains are honeycombed with natural caves, that people extended using explosives so they open on the other side of the mountains.
The moist winds are cooled as they rise -- a consequence of orthographic lifting -- and air going into the caves is cooled further. The water condenses in underground reservoirs. This all only works because of the strange and unique geography and limestone or sandstone mountains in this area.
answered Jul 2 at 18:05
EDLEDL
3,0303 silver badges19 bronze badges
$endgroup$
Assuming your oceans are salt water, these are a few ideas that occurred to me:
Use wide-bandgap semiconductors to perform photo-electrolysis -- separating the hydrogen and oxygen using photons ( 2 photons + 2 H2O -> 2 H2 + O2 ). This is a technical possibility today, the development to make it engineering solution is still in progress. Then, ignite the gases and you have pure H2O again.
Evaporators:
The village has dug channels for water at high tide to fill wide shallow ponds enclosed in plastic tarping. The heat of the sun evaporates the water, leaving the salt behind, then water is condensed in shaded metal tubes that act as heat exchangers -- looks like large stills
Orthographic lifting + modified natural caves + passive heat exchangers:
The village sits on a wide peninsula surrounded by mountains that funnel the air higher and higher to a canyon or pass at the top. The mountains are honeycombed with natural caves, that people extended using explosives so they open on the other side of the mountains.
The moist winds are cooled as they rise -- a consequence of orthographic lifting -- and air going into the caves is cooled further. The water condenses in underground reservoirs. This all only works because of the strange and unique geography and limestone or sandstone mountains in this area.
answered Jul 2 at 18:05
EDLEDL
3,0303 silver badges19 bronze badges
edited Jul 3 at 5:07
answered Jul 2 at 18:05
EDLEDL
3,0303 silver badges19 bronze badges
answered Jul 2 at 18:05
EDLEDL
3,0303 silver badges19 bronze badges
answered Jul 2 at 18:05
EDLEDL
3,0303 silver badges19 bronze badges
3,0303 silver badges19 bronze badges
3
$begingroup$
It's gotta be said! "Luckily, in the history of humanity, nothing bad has ever happened from lighting hydrogen on fire....." :-)
$endgroup$
– JBH
Jul 3 at 4:30
1
$begingroup$
@JBH, as long as the H2 concentration stays below 8% there will be no reenactments of the Hindenburg.
$endgroup$
– EDL
Jul 3 at 5:08
add a comment |
3
$begingroup$
It's gotta be said! "Luckily, in the history of humanity, nothing bad has ever happened from lighting hydrogen on fire....." :-)
$endgroup$
– JBH
Jul 3 at 4:30
1
$begingroup$
@JBH, as long as the H2 concentration stays below 8% there will be no reenactments of the Hindenburg.
$endgroup$
– EDL
Jul 3 at 5:08
3
3
$begingroup$
It's gotta be said! "Luckily, in the history of humanity, nothing bad has ever happened from lighting hydrogen on fire....." :-)
$endgroup$
– JBH
Jul 3 at 4:30
$begingroup$
It's gotta be said! "Luckily, in the history of humanity, nothing bad has ever happened from lighting hydrogen on fire....." :-)
$endgroup$
– JBH
Jul 3 at 4:30
1
1
$begingroup$
@JBH, as long as the H2 concentration stays below 8% there will be no reenactments of the Hindenburg.
$endgroup$
– EDL
Jul 3 at 5:08
$begingroup$
@JBH, as long as the H2 concentration stays below 8% there will be no reenactments of the Hindenburg.
$endgroup$
– EDL
Jul 3 at 5:08
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Make water from coal.
I proposed this to Innocentive as a way soldiers could make water for themselves in arid climates: condense it from vehicle exhaust. The cleaner your carbon source (natural gas would be ideal for this) the fewer contaminants will be in the water you will make.
Assumptions:
1: This is a planet with an oxygen environment.
2: There are hydrocarbons like coal available to be burned.
The formula for oxidation (burning) hydrocarbon is CH4 + O2 -> CO2 + H2O
https://energyeducation.ca/encyclopedia/Hydrocarbon_combustion
The big fluffy white plumes one sees coming from the smokestacks of coal plants are mostly water steam, produced as the product of combustion.
Some napkin numbers: considering a pure carbon hydrocarbon (more like coal than natural gas) you get 2 moles of water from every mole carbon burned. That means 1 ton of coal can be burned to produce 226 liters of water. A human needs to drink about 2 liters of water daily.
You would definitely want Israeli-style water conserving agriculture in a situation like this. You would need a readily available carbon source like coal or oil to burn. You would need a way to condense the steam and then possibly distill it again to remove contaminants from your hydrocarbon source. As regards distilling you fortunately have a heat source you are not using for anything else: all the burning coal.
answered Jul 3 at 15:48
WillkWillk
129k32 gold badges243 silver badges539 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Make water from coal.
I proposed this to Innocentive as a way soldiers could make water for themselves in arid climates: condense it from vehicle exhaust. The cleaner your carbon source (natural gas would be ideal for this) the fewer contaminants will be in the water you will make.
Assumptions:
1: This is a planet with an oxygen environment.
2: There are hydrocarbons like coal available to be burned.
The formula for oxidation (burning) hydrocarbon is CH4 + O2 -> CO2 + H2O
https://energyeducation.ca/encyclopedia/Hydrocarbon_combustion
The big fluffy white plumes one sees coming from the smokestacks of coal plants are mostly water steam, produced as the product of combustion.
Some napkin numbers: considering a pure carbon hydrocarbon (more like coal than natural gas) you get 2 moles of water from every mole carbon burned. That means 1 ton of coal can be burned to produce 226 liters of water. A human needs to drink about 2 liters of water daily.
You would definitely want Israeli-style water conserving agriculture in a situation like this. You would need a readily available carbon source like coal or oil to burn. You would need a way to condense the steam and then possibly distill it again to remove contaminants from your hydrocarbon source. As regards distilling you fortunately have a heat source you are not using for anything else: all the burning coal.
answered Jul 3 at 15:48
WillkWillk
129k32 gold badges243 silver badges539 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Make water from coal.
I proposed this to Innocentive as a way soldiers could make water for themselves in arid climates: condense it from vehicle exhaust. The cleaner your carbon source (natural gas would be ideal for this) the fewer contaminants will be in the water you will make.
Assumptions:
1: This is a planet with an oxygen environment.
2: There are hydrocarbons like coal available to be burned.
The formula for oxidation (burning) hydrocarbon is CH4 + O2 -> CO2 + H2O
https://energyeducation.ca/encyclopedia/Hydrocarbon_combustion
The big fluffy white plumes one sees coming from the smokestacks of coal plants are mostly water steam, produced as the product of combustion.
Some napkin numbers: considering a pure carbon hydrocarbon (more like coal than natural gas) you get 2 moles of water from every mole carbon burned. That means 1 ton of coal can be burned to produce 226 liters of water. A human needs to drink about 2 liters of water daily.
You would definitely want Israeli-style water conserving agriculture in a situation like this. You would need a readily available carbon source like coal or oil to burn. You would need a way to condense the steam and then possibly distill it again to remove contaminants from your hydrocarbon source. As regards distilling you fortunately have a heat source you are not using for anything else: all the burning coal.
answered Jul 3 at 15:48
WillkWillk
129k32 gold badges243 silver badges539 bronze badges
$endgroup$
Make water from coal.
I proposed this to Innocentive as a way soldiers could make water for themselves in arid climates: condense it from vehicle exhaust. The cleaner your carbon source (natural gas would be ideal for this) the fewer contaminants will be in the water you will make.
Assumptions:
1: This is a planet with an oxygen environment.
2: There are hydrocarbons like coal available to be burned.
The formula for oxidation (burning) hydrocarbon is CH4 + O2 -> CO2 + H2O
https://energyeducation.ca/encyclopedia/Hydrocarbon_combustion
The big fluffy white plumes one sees coming from the smokestacks of coal plants are mostly water steam, produced as the product of combustion.
Some napkin numbers: considering a pure carbon hydrocarbon (more like coal than natural gas) you get 2 moles of water from every mole carbon burned. That means 1 ton of coal can be burned to produce 226 liters of water. A human needs to drink about 2 liters of water daily.
You would definitely want Israeli-style water conserving agriculture in a situation like this. You would need a readily available carbon source like coal or oil to burn. You would need a way to condense the steam and then possibly distill it again to remove contaminants from your hydrocarbon source. As regards distilling you fortunately have a heat source you are not using for anything else: all the burning coal.
answered Jul 3 at 15:48
WillkWillk
129k32 gold badges243 silver badges539 bronze badges
edited Jul 3 at 17:52
answered Jul 3 at 15:48
WillkWillk
129k32 gold badges243 silver badges539 bronze badges
answered Jul 3 at 15:48
WillkWillk
129k32 gold badges243 silver badges539 bronze badges
answered Jul 3 at 15:48
WillkWillk
129k32 gold badges243 silver badges539 bronze badges
129k32 gold badges243 silver badges539 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Aqueducts
Aqueducts have been used for thousands of years to get water from one place to another. No modern tech needed nor materials but it would help speed up construction.
The Roman Aqueducts were up to 57 miles long and some are still in use today. They can be built of stone or timber.
The OP states this town has good water but other do not which means it has to have something others don't have. Desalination and/or condensation plants can be built at any town and in fact the other town would build their own
answered Jul 3 at 6:14
ThorneThorne
22k4 gold badges33 silver badges66 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Aqueducts
Aqueducts have been used for thousands of years to get water from one place to another. No modern tech needed nor materials but it would help speed up construction.
The Roman Aqueducts were up to 57 miles long and some are still in use today. They can be built of stone or timber.
The OP states this town has good water but other do not which means it has to have something others don't have. Desalination and/or condensation plants can be built at any town and in fact the other town would build their own
answered Jul 3 at 6:14
ThorneThorne
22k4 gold badges33 silver badges66 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Aqueducts
Aqueducts have been used for thousands of years to get water from one place to another. No modern tech needed nor materials but it would help speed up construction.
The Roman Aqueducts were up to 57 miles long and some are still in use today. They can be built of stone or timber.
The OP states this town has good water but other do not which means it has to have something others don't have. Desalination and/or condensation plants can be built at any town and in fact the other town would build their own
answered Jul 3 at 6:14
ThorneThorne
22k4 gold badges33 silver badges66 bronze badges
$endgroup$
Aqueducts
Aqueducts have been used for thousands of years to get water from one place to another. No modern tech needed nor materials but it would help speed up construction.
The Roman Aqueducts were up to 57 miles long and some are still in use today. They can be built of stone or timber.
The OP states this town has good water but other do not which means it has to have something others don't have. Desalination and/or condensation plants can be built at any town and in fact the other town would build their own
answered Jul 3 at 6:14
ThorneThorne
22k4 gold badges33 silver badges66 bronze badges
answered Jul 3 at 6:14
ThorneThorne
22k4 gold badges33 silver badges66 bronze badges
answered Jul 3 at 6:14
ThorneThorne
22k4 gold badges33 silver badges66 bronze badges
answered Jul 3 at 6:14
ThorneThorne
22k4 gold badges33 silver badges66 bronze badges
22k4 gold badges33 silver badges66 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If this is set in the near future, desalination plants should be an option.
The main requirement is lots of electricity. They have lots of sunlight. At present the capital cost of solar PV panels may be prohibitive for a poor community, but this is because of the nature of Silicon solar cells. We already have perovskite solar cells working in the labs. The goal is a solar panel that can be manufactured almost as easily as spraying paint onto glass. So set the story in a future where that goal is realized, and where solar panels are as cheap as glass windows. That in turn will drive the cost of the rest of the desalination technology way down.
As per other answers, you can do low-tech desalination with just plastic sheeting, and sell salt as a bonus. But agriculture is thirsty. I rather doubt you can desalinate enough water for subsistence agriculture that way. Perhaps they only need vegetables as dietary supplements, and get the majority of their calorific intake as fish/ seafood? (If you relax the "no aquifer" constraint, you can have deep-rooted crops such as grape vines, which can pull up water from very many feet underground. Perhaps a low-permeability aquifer, which is not useful if you dig a well into it, but which such plants can use).
answered Jul 3 at 8:38
nigel222nigel222
9,06212 silver badges26 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Reverse Osmosis Desalination Plants (or RO Desalination) only require power to operate a pump. You can get a small manual version. Anything that can provide a pushing force could be used instead of the electrical supply. This could be a load of cattle working in a circle or it could be that local hand "pumps" that look like the old fassioned leave ones actually include an RO filter and if you want a drink you have to pump the water out the sea and through the filter by hand.
$endgroup$
– TafT
Jul 3 at 10:29
$begingroup$
Yes, but as I said, agriculture is thirsty. There's a huge difference between the amount of water needed to keep one person alive for a year, and the amount needed to irrigate the land on which enough crops grow to feed that person for a year.
$endgroup$
– nigel222
Jul 3 at 11:06
$begingroup$
True but we are talking only small amounts of agriculture. We can shower and clean ourselves in sea water. We can clean most things in sea water. There are probably crops tolerant to not very well filtered water. Once you setup an irrigation system the operations of it might not be that intensive. Guy spends an hour in a tredmill in the cool of a morning or something.
$endgroup$
– TafT
Jul 4 at 7:55
$begingroup$
@TafT Agreed, which is why I noted that maybe they eat only small amounts of terrestrial vegetables for vitamins, and mostly seafood for calories. (Elsewhere, I have read that it's possible to live off the sea indefinitely with no intake of terrestrial vegetation at all. I have my doubts, but it's certainly almost true).
$endgroup$
– nigel222
Jul 4 at 11:27
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If this is set in the near future, desalination plants should be an option.
The main requirement is lots of electricity. They have lots of sunlight. At present the capital cost of solar PV panels may be prohibitive for a poor community, but this is because of the nature of Silicon solar cells. We already have perovskite solar cells working in the labs. The goal is a solar panel that can be manufactured almost as easily as spraying paint onto glass. So set the story in a future where that goal is realized, and where solar panels are as cheap as glass windows. That in turn will drive the cost of the rest of the desalination technology way down.
As per other answers, you can do low-tech desalination with just plastic sheeting, and sell salt as a bonus. But agriculture is thirsty. I rather doubt you can desalinate enough water for subsistence agriculture that way. Perhaps they only need vegetables as dietary supplements, and get the majority of their calorific intake as fish/ seafood? (If you relax the "no aquifer" constraint, you can have deep-rooted crops such as grape vines, which can pull up water from very many feet underground. Perhaps a low-permeability aquifer, which is not useful if you dig a well into it, but which such plants can use).
answered Jul 3 at 8:38
nigel222nigel222
9,06212 silver badges26 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Reverse Osmosis Desalination Plants (or RO Desalination) only require power to operate a pump. You can get a small manual version. Anything that can provide a pushing force could be used instead of the electrical supply. This could be a load of cattle working in a circle or it could be that local hand "pumps" that look like the old fassioned leave ones actually include an RO filter and if you want a drink you have to pump the water out the sea and through the filter by hand.
$endgroup$
– TafT
Jul 3 at 10:29
$begingroup$
Yes, but as I said, agriculture is thirsty. There's a huge difference between the amount of water needed to keep one person alive for a year, and the amount needed to irrigate the land on which enough crops grow to feed that person for a year.
$endgroup$
– nigel222
Jul 3 at 11:06
$begingroup$
True but we are talking only small amounts of agriculture. We can shower and clean ourselves in sea water. We can clean most things in sea water. There are probably crops tolerant to not very well filtered water. Once you setup an irrigation system the operations of it might not be that intensive. Guy spends an hour in a tredmill in the cool of a morning or something.
$endgroup$
– TafT
Jul 4 at 7:55
$begingroup$
@TafT Agreed, which is why I noted that maybe they eat only small amounts of terrestrial vegetables for vitamins, and mostly seafood for calories. (Elsewhere, I have read that it's possible to live off the sea indefinitely with no intake of terrestrial vegetation at all. I have my doubts, but it's certainly almost true).
$endgroup$
– nigel222
Jul 4 at 11:27
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If this is set in the near future, desalination plants should be an option.
The main requirement is lots of electricity. They have lots of sunlight. At present the capital cost of solar PV panels may be prohibitive for a poor community, but this is because of the nature of Silicon solar cells. We already have perovskite solar cells working in the labs. The goal is a solar panel that can be manufactured almost as easily as spraying paint onto glass. So set the story in a future where that goal is realized, and where solar panels are as cheap as glass windows. That in turn will drive the cost of the rest of the desalination technology way down.
As per other answers, you can do low-tech desalination with just plastic sheeting, and sell salt as a bonus. But agriculture is thirsty. I rather doubt you can desalinate enough water for subsistence agriculture that way. Perhaps they only need vegetables as dietary supplements, and get the majority of their calorific intake as fish/ seafood? (If you relax the "no aquifer" constraint, you can have deep-rooted crops such as grape vines, which can pull up water from very many feet underground. Perhaps a low-permeability aquifer, which is not useful if you dig a well into it, but which such plants can use).
answered Jul 3 at 8:38
nigel222nigel222
9,06212 silver badges26 bronze badges
$endgroup$
If this is set in the near future, desalination plants should be an option.
The main requirement is lots of electricity. They have lots of sunlight. At present the capital cost of solar PV panels may be prohibitive for a poor community, but this is because of the nature of Silicon solar cells. We already have perovskite solar cells working in the labs. The goal is a solar panel that can be manufactured almost as easily as spraying paint onto glass. So set the story in a future where that goal is realized, and where solar panels are as cheap as glass windows. That in turn will drive the cost of the rest of the desalination technology way down.
As per other answers, you can do low-tech desalination with just plastic sheeting, and sell salt as a bonus. But agriculture is thirsty. I rather doubt you can desalinate enough water for subsistence agriculture that way. Perhaps they only need vegetables as dietary supplements, and get the majority of their calorific intake as fish/ seafood? (If you relax the "no aquifer" constraint, you can have deep-rooted crops such as grape vines, which can pull up water from very many feet underground. Perhaps a low-permeability aquifer, which is not useful if you dig a well into it, but which such plants can use).
answered Jul 3 at 8:38
nigel222nigel222
9,06212 silver badges26 bronze badges
answered Jul 3 at 8:38
nigel222nigel222
9,06212 silver badges26 bronze badges
answered Jul 3 at 8:38
nigel222nigel222
9,06212 silver badges26 bronze badges
answered Jul 3 at 8:38
nigel222nigel222
9,06212 silver badges26 bronze badges
9,06212 silver badges26 bronze badges
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Reverse Osmosis Desalination Plants (or RO Desalination) only require power to operate a pump. You can get a small manual version. Anything that can provide a pushing force could be used instead of the electrical supply. This could be a load of cattle working in a circle or it could be that local hand "pumps" that look like the old fassioned leave ones actually include an RO filter and if you want a drink you have to pump the water out the sea and through the filter by hand.
$endgroup$
– TafT
Jul 3 at 10:29
$begingroup$
Yes, but as I said, agriculture is thirsty. There's a huge difference between the amount of water needed to keep one person alive for a year, and the amount needed to irrigate the land on which enough crops grow to feed that person for a year.
$endgroup$
– nigel222
Jul 3 at 11:06
$begingroup$
True but we are talking only small amounts of agriculture. We can shower and clean ourselves in sea water. We can clean most things in sea water. There are probably crops tolerant to not very well filtered water. Once you setup an irrigation system the operations of it might not be that intensive. Guy spends an hour in a tredmill in the cool of a morning or something.
$endgroup$
– TafT
Jul 4 at 7:55
$begingroup$
@TafT Agreed, which is why I noted that maybe they eat only small amounts of terrestrial vegetables for vitamins, and mostly seafood for calories. (Elsewhere, I have read that it's possible to live off the sea indefinitely with no intake of terrestrial vegetation at all. I have my doubts, but it's certainly almost true).
$endgroup$
– nigel222
Jul 4 at 11:27
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Reverse Osmosis Desalination Plants (or RO Desalination) only require power to operate a pump. You can get a small manual version. Anything that can provide a pushing force could be used instead of the electrical supply. This could be a load of cattle working in a circle or it could be that local hand "pumps" that look like the old fassioned leave ones actually include an RO filter and if you want a drink you have to pump the water out the sea and through the filter by hand.
$endgroup$
– TafT
Jul 3 at 10:29
$begingroup$
Yes, but as I said, agriculture is thirsty. There's a huge difference between the amount of water needed to keep one person alive for a year, and the amount needed to irrigate the land on which enough crops grow to feed that person for a year.
$endgroup$
– nigel222
Jul 3 at 11:06
$begingroup$
True but we are talking only small amounts of agriculture. We can shower and clean ourselves in sea water. We can clean most things in sea water. There are probably crops tolerant to not very well filtered water. Once you setup an irrigation system the operations of it might not be that intensive. Guy spends an hour in a tredmill in the cool of a morning or something.
$endgroup$
– TafT
Jul 4 at 7:55
$begingroup$
@TafT Agreed, which is why I noted that maybe they eat only small amounts of terrestrial vegetables for vitamins, and mostly seafood for calories. (Elsewhere, I have read that it's possible to live off the sea indefinitely with no intake of terrestrial vegetation at all. I have my doubts, but it's certainly almost true).
$endgroup$
– nigel222
Jul 4 at 11:27
$begingroup$
Reverse Osmosis Desalination Plants (or RO Desalination) only require power to operate a pump. You can get a small manual version. Anything that can provide a pushing force could be used instead of the electrical supply. This could be a load of cattle working in a circle or it could be that local hand "pumps" that look like the old fassioned leave ones actually include an RO filter and if you want a drink you have to pump the water out the sea and through the filter by hand.
$endgroup$
– TafT
Jul 3 at 10:29
$begingroup$
Reverse Osmosis Desalination Plants (or RO Desalination) only require power to operate a pump. You can get a small manual version. Anything that can provide a pushing force could be used instead of the electrical supply. This could be a load of cattle working in a circle or it could be that local hand "pumps" that look like the old fassioned leave ones actually include an RO filter and if you want a drink you have to pump the water out the sea and through the filter by hand.
$endgroup$
– TafT
Jul 3 at 10:29
$begingroup$
Yes, but as I said, agriculture is thirsty. There's a huge difference between the amount of water needed to keep one person alive for a year, and the amount needed to irrigate the land on which enough crops grow to feed that person for a year.
$endgroup$
– nigel222
Jul 3 at 11:06
$begingroup$
Yes, but as I said, agriculture is thirsty. There's a huge difference between the amount of water needed to keep one person alive for a year, and the amount needed to irrigate the land on which enough crops grow to feed that person for a year.
$endgroup$
– nigel222
Jul 3 at 11:06
$begingroup$
True but we are talking only small amounts of agriculture. We can shower and clean ourselves in sea water. We can clean most things in sea water. There are probably crops tolerant to not very well filtered water. Once you setup an irrigation system the operations of it might not be that intensive. Guy spends an hour in a tredmill in the cool of a morning or something.
$endgroup$
– TafT
Jul 4 at 7:55
$begingroup$
True but we are talking only small amounts of agriculture. We can shower and clean ourselves in sea water. We can clean most things in sea water. There are probably crops tolerant to not very well filtered water. Once you setup an irrigation system the operations of it might not be that intensive. Guy spends an hour in a tredmill in the cool of a morning or something.
$endgroup$
– TafT
Jul 4 at 7:55
$begingroup$
@TafT Agreed, which is why I noted that maybe they eat only small amounts of terrestrial vegetables for vitamins, and mostly seafood for calories. (Elsewhere, I have read that it's possible to live off the sea indefinitely with no intake of terrestrial vegetation at all. I have my doubts, but it's certainly almost true).
$endgroup$
– nigel222
Jul 4 at 11:27
$begingroup$
@TafT Agreed, which is why I noted that maybe they eat only small amounts of terrestrial vegetables for vitamins, and mostly seafood for calories. (Elsewhere, I have read that it's possible to live off the sea indefinitely with no intake of terrestrial vegetation at all. I have my doubts, but it's certainly almost true).
$endgroup$
– nigel222
Jul 4 at 11:27
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As others have mentioned fog/moisture capture and transport from other regions, but perhaps something to compliment... how to maximize the impact of what water you do have.
The design of spaces and usage of plants to create micro-climate effects to maximize water impact. Consideration of succulent type plants for pioneering/climate modification.
So, regarding plants/micro-climate. If you've produced an enclosed space and have grown trees these are beneficial because you moderate the exposure to the sun. If you look at that image of the qanat, this is indicative, the trees shade the ground and water, minimizing the evaporation of what is there. The more shade you have, the more you conserve what water you do have.
https://forestsnews.cifor.org/10316/make-it-rain-planting-forests-to-help-drought-stricken-regions?fnl=en
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_greening
Furthermore, the trees will buffer wind, and can themselves capture a bit of moisture in the air, and of course slow down evaporation.
On a larger scale, trees actually help to produce rain, as they do breathe off water themselves.
Consider this, if there is moisture in the air, but not enough to rain... as this moisture passes over a forest, where trees are breathing off moisture, the combined effect of the ambient air moisture + tree breathed moisture, combines to produce enough total moisture to cause precipitation (enough water combined will fall as rain).
So downwind somewhere you'd probably want to consider capture and some sort of piping/aqueduct, like the qanats. And send that moisture back to your cultivated forests upwind. This could be an expanding system that, although fragile, could be something that would slowly scale.
More trees would shelter more land/water, and breathe more moisture, which would interact with the evaporated moisture from the sea, which could precipitate, leading to more water to pipe back to said trees, which could be expanded to shelter/breathe more moisture, interacting with more sea moisture, etc.etc.etc...
Anyhow, regarding succulents. There are various species of plants, like cactus, and these are of course species most adapted to low moisture levels.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succulent_plant
These could be interesting considering a systematic approach to the landscape/microclimate and if you used the tree/shade/moisture model, could be used as a notion of "pioneering" species. So before you plant trees, you have cacti and other succulents, helping to intercept moisture/attract animals and shade the ground.
Every bit of shade/water interception counts in this model.
On top of that, if you consider what "agriculture" means, there are succulents that are used in that regard. Consider agave:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agave
Agave can produce food, and of course is used in tequila production.
Furthermore, there are plant species that are highly salt tolerant. These could utilize some of the untreated water. They would again be able to provide shade/animal habitat, and would themselves contribute into the water feedback loop described above.
https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/special/seaside/gardening-salt-water-soil.htm
Considering the availability of salty water, these salt tolerant plants + succulents could help form the "outer boundary" and pioneer the land, helping prepare for a slow adaptation of regular trees/plants to enter the space as water is available to irrigate.
So, in total, this is a multi-dimensional approach to the usage/protection and increase in moisture, rain production, capture, and forming a slowly scaling feedback loop to promote more and more rain production/interception and water presence in desert greening type of way.
If you combine this sort of "perma-culture" approach with the technological captures/transport described by others, you could have a more holistic approach to water production/capture/conservation.
Hopefully that is inspiring, and not just in your fiction, but also for real life.
answered Jul 3 at 12:01
ANDREGEOUSANDREGEOUS
862 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As others have mentioned fog/moisture capture and transport from other regions, but perhaps something to compliment... how to maximize the impact of what water you do have.
The design of spaces and usage of plants to create micro-climate effects to maximize water impact. Consideration of succulent type plants for pioneering/climate modification.
So, regarding plants/micro-climate. If you've produced an enclosed space and have grown trees these are beneficial because you moderate the exposure to the sun. If you look at that image of the qanat, this is indicative, the trees shade the ground and water, minimizing the evaporation of what is there. The more shade you have, the more you conserve what water you do have.
https://forestsnews.cifor.org/10316/make-it-rain-planting-forests-to-help-drought-stricken-regions?fnl=en
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_greening
Furthermore, the trees will buffer wind, and can themselves capture a bit of moisture in the air, and of course slow down evaporation.
On a larger scale, trees actually help to produce rain, as they do breathe off water themselves.
Consider this, if there is moisture in the air, but not enough to rain... as this moisture passes over a forest, where trees are breathing off moisture, the combined effect of the ambient air moisture + tree breathed moisture, combines to produce enough total moisture to cause precipitation (enough water combined will fall as rain).
So downwind somewhere you'd probably want to consider capture and some sort of piping/aqueduct, like the qanats. And send that moisture back to your cultivated forests upwind. This could be an expanding system that, although fragile, could be something that would slowly scale.
More trees would shelter more land/water, and breathe more moisture, which would interact with the evaporated moisture from the sea, which could precipitate, leading to more water to pipe back to said trees, which could be expanded to shelter/breathe more moisture, interacting with more sea moisture, etc.etc.etc...
Anyhow, regarding succulents. There are various species of plants, like cactus, and these are of course species most adapted to low moisture levels.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succulent_plant
These could be interesting considering a systematic approach to the landscape/microclimate and if you used the tree/shade/moisture model, could be used as a notion of "pioneering" species. So before you plant trees, you have cacti and other succulents, helping to intercept moisture/attract animals and shade the ground.
Every bit of shade/water interception counts in this model.
On top of that, if you consider what "agriculture" means, there are succulents that are used in that regard. Consider agave:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agave
Agave can produce food, and of course is used in tequila production.
Furthermore, there are plant species that are highly salt tolerant. These could utilize some of the untreated water. They would again be able to provide shade/animal habitat, and would themselves contribute into the water feedback loop described above.
https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/special/seaside/gardening-salt-water-soil.htm
Considering the availability of salty water, these salt tolerant plants + succulents could help form the "outer boundary" and pioneer the land, helping prepare for a slow adaptation of regular trees/plants to enter the space as water is available to irrigate.
So, in total, this is a multi-dimensional approach to the usage/protection and increase in moisture, rain production, capture, and forming a slowly scaling feedback loop to promote more and more rain production/interception and water presence in desert greening type of way.
If you combine this sort of "perma-culture" approach with the technological captures/transport described by others, you could have a more holistic approach to water production/capture/conservation.
Hopefully that is inspiring, and not just in your fiction, but also for real life.
answered Jul 3 at 12:01
ANDREGEOUSANDREGEOUS
862 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As others have mentioned fog/moisture capture and transport from other regions, but perhaps something to compliment... how to maximize the impact of what water you do have.
The design of spaces and usage of plants to create micro-climate effects to maximize water impact. Consideration of succulent type plants for pioneering/climate modification.
So, regarding plants/micro-climate. If you've produced an enclosed space and have grown trees these are beneficial because you moderate the exposure to the sun. If you look at that image of the qanat, this is indicative, the trees shade the ground and water, minimizing the evaporation of what is there. The more shade you have, the more you conserve what water you do have.
https://forestsnews.cifor.org/10316/make-it-rain-planting-forests-to-help-drought-stricken-regions?fnl=en
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_greening
Furthermore, the trees will buffer wind, and can themselves capture a bit of moisture in the air, and of course slow down evaporation.
On a larger scale, trees actually help to produce rain, as they do breathe off water themselves.
Consider this, if there is moisture in the air, but not enough to rain... as this moisture passes over a forest, where trees are breathing off moisture, the combined effect of the ambient air moisture + tree breathed moisture, combines to produce enough total moisture to cause precipitation (enough water combined will fall as rain).
So downwind somewhere you'd probably want to consider capture and some sort of piping/aqueduct, like the qanats. And send that moisture back to your cultivated forests upwind. This could be an expanding system that, although fragile, could be something that would slowly scale.
More trees would shelter more land/water, and breathe more moisture, which would interact with the evaporated moisture from the sea, which could precipitate, leading to more water to pipe back to said trees, which could be expanded to shelter/breathe more moisture, interacting with more sea moisture, etc.etc.etc...
Anyhow, regarding succulents. There are various species of plants, like cactus, and these are of course species most adapted to low moisture levels.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succulent_plant
These could be interesting considering a systematic approach to the landscape/microclimate and if you used the tree/shade/moisture model, could be used as a notion of "pioneering" species. So before you plant trees, you have cacti and other succulents, helping to intercept moisture/attract animals and shade the ground.
Every bit of shade/water interception counts in this model.
On top of that, if you consider what "agriculture" means, there are succulents that are used in that regard. Consider agave:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agave
Agave can produce food, and of course is used in tequila production.
Furthermore, there are plant species that are highly salt tolerant. These could utilize some of the untreated water. They would again be able to provide shade/animal habitat, and would themselves contribute into the water feedback loop described above.
https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/special/seaside/gardening-salt-water-soil.htm
Considering the availability of salty water, these salt tolerant plants + succulents could help form the "outer boundary" and pioneer the land, helping prepare for a slow adaptation of regular trees/plants to enter the space as water is available to irrigate.
So, in total, this is a multi-dimensional approach to the usage/protection and increase in moisture, rain production, capture, and forming a slowly scaling feedback loop to promote more and more rain production/interception and water presence in desert greening type of way.
If you combine this sort of "perma-culture" approach with the technological captures/transport described by others, you could have a more holistic approach to water production/capture/conservation.
Hopefully that is inspiring, and not just in your fiction, but also for real life.
answered Jul 3 at 12:01
ANDREGEOUSANDREGEOUS
862 bronze badges
$endgroup$
As others have mentioned fog/moisture capture and transport from other regions, but perhaps something to compliment... how to maximize the impact of what water you do have.
The design of spaces and usage of plants to create micro-climate effects to maximize water impact. Consideration of succulent type plants for pioneering/climate modification.
So, regarding plants/micro-climate. If you've produced an enclosed space and have grown trees these are beneficial because you moderate the exposure to the sun. If you look at that image of the qanat, this is indicative, the trees shade the ground and water, minimizing the evaporation of what is there. The more shade you have, the more you conserve what water you do have.
https://forestsnews.cifor.org/10316/make-it-rain-planting-forests-to-help-drought-stricken-regions?fnl=en
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_greening
Furthermore, the trees will buffer wind, and can themselves capture a bit of moisture in the air, and of course slow down evaporation.
On a larger scale, trees actually help to produce rain, as they do breathe off water themselves.
Consider this, if there is moisture in the air, but not enough to rain... as this moisture passes over a forest, where trees are breathing off moisture, the combined effect of the ambient air moisture + tree breathed moisture, combines to produce enough total moisture to cause precipitation (enough water combined will fall as rain).
So downwind somewhere you'd probably want to consider capture and some sort of piping/aqueduct, like the qanats. And send that moisture back to your cultivated forests upwind. This could be an expanding system that, although fragile, could be something that would slowly scale.
More trees would shelter more land/water, and breathe more moisture, which would interact with the evaporated moisture from the sea, which could precipitate, leading to more water to pipe back to said trees, which could be expanded to shelter/breathe more moisture, interacting with more sea moisture, etc.etc.etc...
Anyhow, regarding succulents. There are various species of plants, like cactus, and these are of course species most adapted to low moisture levels.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succulent_plant
These could be interesting considering a systematic approach to the landscape/microclimate and if you used the tree/shade/moisture model, could be used as a notion of "pioneering" species. So before you plant trees, you have cacti and other succulents, helping to intercept moisture/attract animals and shade the ground.
Every bit of shade/water interception counts in this model.
On top of that, if you consider what "agriculture" means, there are succulents that are used in that regard. Consider agave:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agave
Agave can produce food, and of course is used in tequila production.
Furthermore, there are plant species that are highly salt tolerant. These could utilize some of the untreated water. They would again be able to provide shade/animal habitat, and would themselves contribute into the water feedback loop described above.
https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/special/seaside/gardening-salt-water-soil.htm
Considering the availability of salty water, these salt tolerant plants + succulents could help form the "outer boundary" and pioneer the land, helping prepare for a slow adaptation of regular trees/plants to enter the space as water is available to irrigate.
So, in total, this is a multi-dimensional approach to the usage/protection and increase in moisture, rain production, capture, and forming a slowly scaling feedback loop to promote more and more rain production/interception and water presence in desert greening type of way.
If you combine this sort of "perma-culture" approach with the technological captures/transport described by others, you could have a more holistic approach to water production/capture/conservation.
Hopefully that is inspiring, and not just in your fiction, but also for real life.
answered Jul 3 at 12:01
ANDREGEOUSANDREGEOUS
862 bronze badges
edited Jul 3 at 12:21
answered Jul 3 at 12:01
ANDREGEOUSANDREGEOUS
862 bronze badges
answered Jul 3 at 12:01
ANDREGEOUSANDREGEOUS
862 bronze badges
answered Jul 3 at 12:01
ANDREGEOUSANDREGEOUS
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862 bronze badges
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(Edited)
Well, even if there is almost no rain, there still may exist some rain. People can dig large holes or build containers in which they store water from rainy periods and use it along the year. Some people make that in semi-desert areas in Brazil, however the water is not enough for luxuries such as baths and in your case would need some complement.
Also, it's possible for the desert to have underground water sources that can be accessed via wells. These sources are basically like "underground rivers" that are born in far away areas where the soil absorbs more water.
One other thing that I could think is the use of plants. Desert plants are good at retaining water, so maybe you could have a special plant that can get water from very lower levels in the soil and be used as a water source. I don't know, though, how much of these plants would be needed to supply a person and if it would be enough.
The other option is desalinization. People are saying it's viable and kinda easy, but as far as I know, it's usually costly and used when nothing else works; a last resource. However, if your society really depends on it, they may have worked a way to make it cheaper and easier.
Many of this options can change according to other aspects of your geography, of course, like mountain ranges and hidden underground water sources.
answered Jul 2 at 17:57
johannfowljohannfowl
3322 silver badges10 bronze badges
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add a comment |
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(Edited)
Well, even if there is almost no rain, there still may exist some rain. People can dig large holes or build containers in which they store water from rainy periods and use it along the year. Some people make that in semi-desert areas in Brazil, however the water is not enough for luxuries such as baths and in your case would need some complement.
Also, it's possible for the desert to have underground water sources that can be accessed via wells. These sources are basically like "underground rivers" that are born in far away areas where the soil absorbs more water.
One other thing that I could think is the use of plants. Desert plants are good at retaining water, so maybe you could have a special plant that can get water from very lower levels in the soil and be used as a water source. I don't know, though, how much of these plants would be needed to supply a person and if it would be enough.
The other option is desalinization. People are saying it's viable and kinda easy, but as far as I know, it's usually costly and used when nothing else works; a last resource. However, if your society really depends on it, they may have worked a way to make it cheaper and easier.
Many of this options can change according to other aspects of your geography, of course, like mountain ranges and hidden underground water sources.
answered Jul 2 at 17:57
johannfowljohannfowl
3322 silver badges10 bronze badges
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add a comment |
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(Edited)
Well, even if there is almost no rain, there still may exist some rain. People can dig large holes or build containers in which they store water from rainy periods and use it along the year. Some people make that in semi-desert areas in Brazil, however the water is not enough for luxuries such as baths and in your case would need some complement.
Also, it's possible for the desert to have underground water sources that can be accessed via wells. These sources are basically like "underground rivers" that are born in far away areas where the soil absorbs more water.
One other thing that I could think is the use of plants. Desert plants are good at retaining water, so maybe you could have a special plant that can get water from very lower levels in the soil and be used as a water source. I don't know, though, how much of these plants would be needed to supply a person and if it would be enough.
The other option is desalinization. People are saying it's viable and kinda easy, but as far as I know, it's usually costly and used when nothing else works; a last resource. However, if your society really depends on it, they may have worked a way to make it cheaper and easier.
Many of this options can change according to other aspects of your geography, of course, like mountain ranges and hidden underground water sources.
answered Jul 2 at 17:57
johannfowljohannfowl
3322 silver badges10 bronze badges
$endgroup$
(Edited)
Well, even if there is almost no rain, there still may exist some rain. People can dig large holes or build containers in which they store water from rainy periods and use it along the year. Some people make that in semi-desert areas in Brazil, however the water is not enough for luxuries such as baths and in your case would need some complement.
Also, it's possible for the desert to have underground water sources that can be accessed via wells. These sources are basically like "underground rivers" that are born in far away areas where the soil absorbs more water.
One other thing that I could think is the use of plants. Desert plants are good at retaining water, so maybe you could have a special plant that can get water from very lower levels in the soil and be used as a water source. I don't know, though, how much of these plants would be needed to supply a person and if it would be enough.
The other option is desalinization. People are saying it's viable and kinda easy, but as far as I know, it's usually costly and used when nothing else works; a last resource. However, if your society really depends on it, they may have worked a way to make it cheaper and easier.
Many of this options can change according to other aspects of your geography, of course, like mountain ranges and hidden underground water sources.
answered Jul 2 at 17:57
johannfowljohannfowl
3322 silver badges10 bronze badges
edited Jul 4 at 13:56
answered Jul 2 at 17:57
johannfowljohannfowl
3322 silver badges10 bronze badges
answered Jul 2 at 17:57
johannfowljohannfowl
3322 silver badges10 bronze badges
answered Jul 2 at 17:57
johannfowljohannfowl
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3322 silver badges10 bronze badges
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If the city is located close to the sea, the winds blowing from the sea inland will carry some humidity.
Overnight the falling temperatures can lead to the humidity condensing, therefore a series of drapes oriented parallel to the wind direction can act as condensing surface, letting then the water flow into channels to a reservoir.
answered Jul 2 at 18:51
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
103k32 gold badges248 silver badges501 bronze badges
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If the city is located close to the sea, the winds blowing from the sea inland will carry some humidity.
Overnight the falling temperatures can lead to the humidity condensing, therefore a series of drapes oriented parallel to the wind direction can act as condensing surface, letting then the water flow into channels to a reservoir.
answered Jul 2 at 18:51
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
103k32 gold badges248 silver badges501 bronze badges
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add a comment |
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If the city is located close to the sea, the winds blowing from the sea inland will carry some humidity.
Overnight the falling temperatures can lead to the humidity condensing, therefore a series of drapes oriented parallel to the wind direction can act as condensing surface, letting then the water flow into channels to a reservoir.
answered Jul 2 at 18:51
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
103k32 gold badges248 silver badges501 bronze badges
$endgroup$
If the city is located close to the sea, the winds blowing from the sea inland will carry some humidity.
Overnight the falling temperatures can lead to the humidity condensing, therefore a series of drapes oriented parallel to the wind direction can act as condensing surface, letting then the water flow into channels to a reservoir.
answered Jul 2 at 18:51
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
103k32 gold badges248 silver badges501 bronze badges
answered Jul 2 at 18:51
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
103k32 gold badges248 silver badges501 bronze badges
answered Jul 2 at 18:51
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
103k32 gold badges248 silver badges501 bronze badges
answered Jul 2 at 18:51
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
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103k32 gold badges248 silver badges501 bronze badges
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I’m going to challenge you on the shipping water. Oil costs $0.5-0.75 per barrel per 1000 miles via pipe, $4.25-5.50 per barrel per 1000 miles via train, and $1 per barrel per 1000 miles via boat to ship. An oil barrel is 42 gallons. This gives us a price of $0.01-0.13 a gallon of oil per 1000 miles. If water costs the same as oil because it is shipped from other countries, this would mean water would cost the same price to be shipped, plus an additional cost of basically nothing for water. Now, if you are willing for people to act like we do, people could be using 100 gallons of water a day. This would cost a citizen about $1-13 a day per 1000 miles, which is considerably high, but manageable for everyone. This leads to a question of how to weed out other towns. A simple method is to have your town have a good military or good strategy to protect the water shipments. Water shipments are much more valuable than oil and would of course be targeted by enemies. A big side effect of military control of the water is that important people have control of the water supply, so perhaps your wealthy individuals control this (or do whatever would happen to create planned conflict) and they continue to have good water.
answered Jul 3 at 4:46
Grant GarrisonGrant Garrison
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I’m going to challenge you on the shipping water. Oil costs $0.5-0.75 per barrel per 1000 miles via pipe, $4.25-5.50 per barrel per 1000 miles via train, and $1 per barrel per 1000 miles via boat to ship. An oil barrel is 42 gallons. This gives us a price of $0.01-0.13 a gallon of oil per 1000 miles. If water costs the same as oil because it is shipped from other countries, this would mean water would cost the same price to be shipped, plus an additional cost of basically nothing for water. Now, if you are willing for people to act like we do, people could be using 100 gallons of water a day. This would cost a citizen about $1-13 a day per 1000 miles, which is considerably high, but manageable for everyone. This leads to a question of how to weed out other towns. A simple method is to have your town have a good military or good strategy to protect the water shipments. Water shipments are much more valuable than oil and would of course be targeted by enemies. A big side effect of military control of the water is that important people have control of the water supply, so perhaps your wealthy individuals control this (or do whatever would happen to create planned conflict) and they continue to have good water.
answered Jul 3 at 4:46
Grant GarrisonGrant Garrison
2011 silver badge4 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I’m going to challenge you on the shipping water. Oil costs $0.5-0.75 per barrel per 1000 miles via pipe, $4.25-5.50 per barrel per 1000 miles via train, and $1 per barrel per 1000 miles via boat to ship. An oil barrel is 42 gallons. This gives us a price of $0.01-0.13 a gallon of oil per 1000 miles. If water costs the same as oil because it is shipped from other countries, this would mean water would cost the same price to be shipped, plus an additional cost of basically nothing for water. Now, if you are willing for people to act like we do, people could be using 100 gallons of water a day. This would cost a citizen about $1-13 a day per 1000 miles, which is considerably high, but manageable for everyone. This leads to a question of how to weed out other towns. A simple method is to have your town have a good military or good strategy to protect the water shipments. Water shipments are much more valuable than oil and would of course be targeted by enemies. A big side effect of military control of the water is that important people have control of the water supply, so perhaps your wealthy individuals control this (or do whatever would happen to create planned conflict) and they continue to have good water.
answered Jul 3 at 4:46
Grant GarrisonGrant Garrison
2011 silver badge4 bronze badges
$endgroup$
I’m going to challenge you on the shipping water. Oil costs $0.5-0.75 per barrel per 1000 miles via pipe, $4.25-5.50 per barrel per 1000 miles via train, and $1 per barrel per 1000 miles via boat to ship. An oil barrel is 42 gallons. This gives us a price of $0.01-0.13 a gallon of oil per 1000 miles. If water costs the same as oil because it is shipped from other countries, this would mean water would cost the same price to be shipped, plus an additional cost of basically nothing for water. Now, if you are willing for people to act like we do, people could be using 100 gallons of water a day. This would cost a citizen about $1-13 a day per 1000 miles, which is considerably high, but manageable for everyone. This leads to a question of how to weed out other towns. A simple method is to have your town have a good military or good strategy to protect the water shipments. Water shipments are much more valuable than oil and would of course be targeted by enemies. A big side effect of military control of the water is that important people have control of the water supply, so perhaps your wealthy individuals control this (or do whatever would happen to create planned conflict) and they continue to have good water.
answered Jul 3 at 4:46
Grant GarrisonGrant Garrison
2011 silver badge4 bronze badges
answered Jul 3 at 4:46
Grant GarrisonGrant Garrison
2011 silver badge4 bronze badges
answered Jul 3 at 4:46
Grant GarrisonGrant Garrison
2011 silver badge4 bronze badges
answered Jul 3 at 4:46
Grant GarrisonGrant Garrison
2011 silver badge4 bronze badges
2011 silver badge4 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Presence of coastal cave systems
If your desert is set on a plateau and that the coast is very high compared to the water level, then the water could had eroded the rock and created the cave system. Such cave system would channel wind underground and condense the air moisture from the sea into underground pool.
The local population could have then carved the rock and created part of an underground city (think Mesolithic underground cities as seen in middle east). The speedy, moist winds would also provide cooling and air that would be less harsh compared to that of the desert. It would be very like Dune sietchs with their wind trap, except that it would be much more successful on the sea shore.
[EDIT typo]
answered Jul 3 at 17:13
werfuwerfu
1411 bronze badge
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Presence of coastal cave systems
If your desert is set on a plateau and that the coast is very high compared to the water level, then the water could had eroded the rock and created the cave system. Such cave system would channel wind underground and condense the air moisture from the sea into underground pool.
The local population could have then carved the rock and created part of an underground city (think Mesolithic underground cities as seen in middle east). The speedy, moist winds would also provide cooling and air that would be less harsh compared to that of the desert. It would be very like Dune sietchs with their wind trap, except that it would be much more successful on the sea shore.
[EDIT typo]
answered Jul 3 at 17:13
werfuwerfu
1411 bronze badge
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Presence of coastal cave systems
If your desert is set on a plateau and that the coast is very high compared to the water level, then the water could had eroded the rock and created the cave system. Such cave system would channel wind underground and condense the air moisture from the sea into underground pool.
The local population could have then carved the rock and created part of an underground city (think Mesolithic underground cities as seen in middle east). The speedy, moist winds would also provide cooling and air that would be less harsh compared to that of the desert. It would be very like Dune sietchs with their wind trap, except that it would be much more successful on the sea shore.
[EDIT typo]
answered Jul 3 at 17:13
werfuwerfu
1411 bronze badge
$endgroup$
Presence of coastal cave systems
If your desert is set on a plateau and that the coast is very high compared to the water level, then the water could had eroded the rock and created the cave system. Such cave system would channel wind underground and condense the air moisture from the sea into underground pool.
The local population could have then carved the rock and created part of an underground city (think Mesolithic underground cities as seen in middle east). The speedy, moist winds would also provide cooling and air that would be less harsh compared to that of the desert. It would be very like Dune sietchs with their wind trap, except that it would be much more successful on the sea shore.
[EDIT typo]
answered Jul 3 at 17:13
werfuwerfu
1411 bronze badge
answered Jul 3 at 17:13
werfuwerfu
1411 bronze badge
answered Jul 3 at 17:13
werfuwerfu
1411 bronze badge
answered Jul 3 at 17:13
werfuwerfu
1411 bronze badge
1411 bronze badge
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There could be springs of fresh water just off the shore. This would create pools of brackish water off the shore that would be pottable.
I am struggling to remember the details of something I read but somewhere in Polinesia or another series of islands it was discovered that there were such just off shore pools. They were identified as in use by anchent cultures as both inland catchment basins constructed by digging pits for rainwater or land springs and some beaches had similar carvings facing the pottable water. Until someone tested that salinity of the off shore water they could not explain what the carvings that marked drinkable water were facing the sea. Turns out the underground rivers were exiting at known locations and the fresh water was not well mixed with the sea water when it reached the surface. If you new where to go in your little boat you could get barrels full of slightly salts but healthy to drink water.
Your city could be on that lucky bit of the coast. Row a few meters off shore to the right spots and you can fill your boots so to speak. This could be the only location on the coast with such a resource which then explains how this city has a suffit but no others do (as anyone on any coast can desalinate and will pinch the idea and tech before long).
answered Jul 4 at 8:03
TafTTafT
3991 silver badge5 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There could be springs of fresh water just off the shore. This would create pools of brackish water off the shore that would be pottable.
I am struggling to remember the details of something I read but somewhere in Polinesia or another series of islands it was discovered that there were such just off shore pools. They were identified as in use by anchent cultures as both inland catchment basins constructed by digging pits for rainwater or land springs and some beaches had similar carvings facing the pottable water. Until someone tested that salinity of the off shore water they could not explain what the carvings that marked drinkable water were facing the sea. Turns out the underground rivers were exiting at known locations and the fresh water was not well mixed with the sea water when it reached the surface. If you new where to go in your little boat you could get barrels full of slightly salts but healthy to drink water.
Your city could be on that lucky bit of the coast. Row a few meters off shore to the right spots and you can fill your boots so to speak. This could be the only location on the coast with such a resource which then explains how this city has a suffit but no others do (as anyone on any coast can desalinate and will pinch the idea and tech before long).
answered Jul 4 at 8:03
TafTTafT
3991 silver badge5 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There could be springs of fresh water just off the shore. This would create pools of brackish water off the shore that would be pottable.
I am struggling to remember the details of something I read but somewhere in Polinesia or another series of islands it was discovered that there were such just off shore pools. They were identified as in use by anchent cultures as both inland catchment basins constructed by digging pits for rainwater or land springs and some beaches had similar carvings facing the pottable water. Until someone tested that salinity of the off shore water they could not explain what the carvings that marked drinkable water were facing the sea. Turns out the underground rivers were exiting at known locations and the fresh water was not well mixed with the sea water when it reached the surface. If you new where to go in your little boat you could get barrels full of slightly salts but healthy to drink water.
Your city could be on that lucky bit of the coast. Row a few meters off shore to the right spots and you can fill your boots so to speak. This could be the only location on the coast with such a resource which then explains how this city has a suffit but no others do (as anyone on any coast can desalinate and will pinch the idea and tech before long).
answered Jul 4 at 8:03
TafTTafT
3991 silver badge5 bronze badges
$endgroup$
There could be springs of fresh water just off the shore. This would create pools of brackish water off the shore that would be pottable.
I am struggling to remember the details of something I read but somewhere in Polinesia or another series of islands it was discovered that there were such just off shore pools. They were identified as in use by anchent cultures as both inland catchment basins constructed by digging pits for rainwater or land springs and some beaches had similar carvings facing the pottable water. Until someone tested that salinity of the off shore water they could not explain what the carvings that marked drinkable water were facing the sea. Turns out the underground rivers were exiting at known locations and the fresh water was not well mixed with the sea water when it reached the surface. If you new where to go in your little boat you could get barrels full of slightly salts but healthy to drink water.
Your city could be on that lucky bit of the coast. Row a few meters off shore to the right spots and you can fill your boots so to speak. This could be the only location on the coast with such a resource which then explains how this city has a suffit but no others do (as anyone on any coast can desalinate and will pinch the idea and tech before long).
answered Jul 4 at 8:03
TafTTafT
3991 silver badge5 bronze badges
answered Jul 4 at 8:03
TafTTafT
3991 silver badge5 bronze badges
answered Jul 4 at 8:03
TafTTafT
3991 silver badge5 bronze badges
answered Jul 4 at 8:03
TafTTafT
3991 silver badge5 bronze badges
3991 silver badge5 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
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4
$begingroup$
TBH this could have been a google search. That's what I did and found quite a few options. Something like this maybe: treehugger.com/clean-technology/…
$endgroup$
– Morris The Cat
Jul 2 at 17:23
5
$begingroup$
Looks to me like you answered your own question.
$endgroup$
– Carl Witthoft
Jul 2 at 17:29
1
$begingroup$
@MorrisTheCat if you do the math, you can see that product is a scam
$endgroup$
– Ferrybig
Jul 3 at 11:36
2
$begingroup$
Have you thought about Tatooine? Luke Skywalker was: a) a nerf herder b) a podracer c) moisture farmer.
$endgroup$
– SZCZERZO KŁY
Jul 3 at 12:13
1
$begingroup$
@Lupus: I'm sweating enough in Ohio right now to water an entire town on Arrakis! And if you include the dogs, who are panting like little maniacs, I think we can solve their water problem between the three of us!
$endgroup$
– Bob Jarvis
Jul 4 at 17:39