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Why is the saxophone not common in classical repertoire?


How did the saxophone come to be considered romantic?The 25 Daily Exercises versus learning songs for beginner saxophoneWhich tone names should I learn on a transposing instrument like a saxophone?How to do vibrato on the saxophone?Why saxophone is so common in Jazz Music?Playing the saxophone in the rainHow do I practice overtones on the saxophone?What are the 14 different types of saxophone?What's the Standard pitch for a Saxophone and its frequency?Why does it sound so different between a 'C' and a 'D' on an Alto Saxophone?






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27















Other than the fact that its relatively new compared to other orchestral instruments (e.g. the violin), why is the saxophone (any of them from the family, alto, baritone, tenor etc) not more prevalent in classical repertoire? Are there historical reasons? Is the timbre incompatible (and if so why?). I would prefer objective reasons for the latter if its true (and not subjective statements like "it just does not sound orchestral").










share|improve this question

















  • 8





    Composers who included the saxophone in orchestral works include Debussy, Glazunov, Bizet, Delibes, Massenet, Strauss, Bartok, Ravel, Milhaud, Puccini, Hindemith, Berg, Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Rachmaninov... it's hardly a rarity.

    – Your Uncle Bob
    Jun 30 at 7:54






  • 6





    Whats the fraction of orchestral pieces (including chamber orchestras) post the date of the invention of saxophone to the total number of orchestral pieces that were composed during that time? Now run the exact same analysis with the clarinet. Moreover, whats the number of orchestras that have musicians whose primary instrument is some kind of a saxophone ? I honestly do not know the answer to either question.

    – Khalian
    Jun 30 at 7:59







  • 5





    The clarinet is 150 years older, and more crucially, it was around when the symphony form developed in the 18th century, and when Beethoven defined what would long be considered the standard orchestra instrumentation in the first half of the 19th century.

    – Your Uncle Bob
    Jun 30 at 8:07







  • 2





    So your answer is that its purely historical by nature? I wont be surprised if it actually is.

    – Khalian
    Jun 30 at 8:14






  • 3





    Consider the flügelhorn and the cornet, developed around the same time as the saxophone. They are also occasionally used in orchestral works, but for specific effects, and are not a standard part of orchestral instrumentation.

    – Your Uncle Bob
    Jun 30 at 8:19


















27















Other than the fact that its relatively new compared to other orchestral instruments (e.g. the violin), why is the saxophone (any of them from the family, alto, baritone, tenor etc) not more prevalent in classical repertoire? Are there historical reasons? Is the timbre incompatible (and if so why?). I would prefer objective reasons for the latter if its true (and not subjective statements like "it just does not sound orchestral").










share|improve this question

















  • 8





    Composers who included the saxophone in orchestral works include Debussy, Glazunov, Bizet, Delibes, Massenet, Strauss, Bartok, Ravel, Milhaud, Puccini, Hindemith, Berg, Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Rachmaninov... it's hardly a rarity.

    – Your Uncle Bob
    Jun 30 at 7:54






  • 6





    Whats the fraction of orchestral pieces (including chamber orchestras) post the date of the invention of saxophone to the total number of orchestral pieces that were composed during that time? Now run the exact same analysis with the clarinet. Moreover, whats the number of orchestras that have musicians whose primary instrument is some kind of a saxophone ? I honestly do not know the answer to either question.

    – Khalian
    Jun 30 at 7:59







  • 5





    The clarinet is 150 years older, and more crucially, it was around when the symphony form developed in the 18th century, and when Beethoven defined what would long be considered the standard orchestra instrumentation in the first half of the 19th century.

    – Your Uncle Bob
    Jun 30 at 8:07







  • 2





    So your answer is that its purely historical by nature? I wont be surprised if it actually is.

    – Khalian
    Jun 30 at 8:14






  • 3





    Consider the flügelhorn and the cornet, developed around the same time as the saxophone. They are also occasionally used in orchestral works, but for specific effects, and are not a standard part of orchestral instrumentation.

    – Your Uncle Bob
    Jun 30 at 8:19














27












27








27


3






Other than the fact that its relatively new compared to other orchestral instruments (e.g. the violin), why is the saxophone (any of them from the family, alto, baritone, tenor etc) not more prevalent in classical repertoire? Are there historical reasons? Is the timbre incompatible (and if so why?). I would prefer objective reasons for the latter if its true (and not subjective statements like "it just does not sound orchestral").










share|improve this question














Other than the fact that its relatively new compared to other orchestral instruments (e.g. the violin), why is the saxophone (any of them from the family, alto, baritone, tenor etc) not more prevalent in classical repertoire? Are there historical reasons? Is the timbre incompatible (and if so why?). I would prefer objective reasons for the latter if its true (and not subjective statements like "it just does not sound orchestral").







orchestra saxophone






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked Jun 30 at 7:34









KhalianKhalian

2923 silver badges9 bronze badges




2923 silver badges9 bronze badges







  • 8





    Composers who included the saxophone in orchestral works include Debussy, Glazunov, Bizet, Delibes, Massenet, Strauss, Bartok, Ravel, Milhaud, Puccini, Hindemith, Berg, Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Rachmaninov... it's hardly a rarity.

    – Your Uncle Bob
    Jun 30 at 7:54






  • 6





    Whats the fraction of orchestral pieces (including chamber orchestras) post the date of the invention of saxophone to the total number of orchestral pieces that were composed during that time? Now run the exact same analysis with the clarinet. Moreover, whats the number of orchestras that have musicians whose primary instrument is some kind of a saxophone ? I honestly do not know the answer to either question.

    – Khalian
    Jun 30 at 7:59







  • 5





    The clarinet is 150 years older, and more crucially, it was around when the symphony form developed in the 18th century, and when Beethoven defined what would long be considered the standard orchestra instrumentation in the first half of the 19th century.

    – Your Uncle Bob
    Jun 30 at 8:07







  • 2





    So your answer is that its purely historical by nature? I wont be surprised if it actually is.

    – Khalian
    Jun 30 at 8:14






  • 3





    Consider the flügelhorn and the cornet, developed around the same time as the saxophone. They are also occasionally used in orchestral works, but for specific effects, and are not a standard part of orchestral instrumentation.

    – Your Uncle Bob
    Jun 30 at 8:19













  • 8





    Composers who included the saxophone in orchestral works include Debussy, Glazunov, Bizet, Delibes, Massenet, Strauss, Bartok, Ravel, Milhaud, Puccini, Hindemith, Berg, Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Rachmaninov... it's hardly a rarity.

    – Your Uncle Bob
    Jun 30 at 7:54






  • 6





    Whats the fraction of orchestral pieces (including chamber orchestras) post the date of the invention of saxophone to the total number of orchestral pieces that were composed during that time? Now run the exact same analysis with the clarinet. Moreover, whats the number of orchestras that have musicians whose primary instrument is some kind of a saxophone ? I honestly do not know the answer to either question.

    – Khalian
    Jun 30 at 7:59







  • 5





    The clarinet is 150 years older, and more crucially, it was around when the symphony form developed in the 18th century, and when Beethoven defined what would long be considered the standard orchestra instrumentation in the first half of the 19th century.

    – Your Uncle Bob
    Jun 30 at 8:07







  • 2





    So your answer is that its purely historical by nature? I wont be surprised if it actually is.

    – Khalian
    Jun 30 at 8:14






  • 3





    Consider the flügelhorn and the cornet, developed around the same time as the saxophone. They are also occasionally used in orchestral works, but for specific effects, and are not a standard part of orchestral instrumentation.

    – Your Uncle Bob
    Jun 30 at 8:19








8




8





Composers who included the saxophone in orchestral works include Debussy, Glazunov, Bizet, Delibes, Massenet, Strauss, Bartok, Ravel, Milhaud, Puccini, Hindemith, Berg, Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Rachmaninov... it's hardly a rarity.

– Your Uncle Bob
Jun 30 at 7:54





Composers who included the saxophone in orchestral works include Debussy, Glazunov, Bizet, Delibes, Massenet, Strauss, Bartok, Ravel, Milhaud, Puccini, Hindemith, Berg, Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Rachmaninov... it's hardly a rarity.

– Your Uncle Bob
Jun 30 at 7:54




6




6





Whats the fraction of orchestral pieces (including chamber orchestras) post the date of the invention of saxophone to the total number of orchestral pieces that were composed during that time? Now run the exact same analysis with the clarinet. Moreover, whats the number of orchestras that have musicians whose primary instrument is some kind of a saxophone ? I honestly do not know the answer to either question.

– Khalian
Jun 30 at 7:59






Whats the fraction of orchestral pieces (including chamber orchestras) post the date of the invention of saxophone to the total number of orchestral pieces that were composed during that time? Now run the exact same analysis with the clarinet. Moreover, whats the number of orchestras that have musicians whose primary instrument is some kind of a saxophone ? I honestly do not know the answer to either question.

– Khalian
Jun 30 at 7:59





5




5





The clarinet is 150 years older, and more crucially, it was around when the symphony form developed in the 18th century, and when Beethoven defined what would long be considered the standard orchestra instrumentation in the first half of the 19th century.

– Your Uncle Bob
Jun 30 at 8:07






The clarinet is 150 years older, and more crucially, it was around when the symphony form developed in the 18th century, and when Beethoven defined what would long be considered the standard orchestra instrumentation in the first half of the 19th century.

– Your Uncle Bob
Jun 30 at 8:07





2




2





So your answer is that its purely historical by nature? I wont be surprised if it actually is.

– Khalian
Jun 30 at 8:14





So your answer is that its purely historical by nature? I wont be surprised if it actually is.

– Khalian
Jun 30 at 8:14




3




3





Consider the flügelhorn and the cornet, developed around the same time as the saxophone. They are also occasionally used in orchestral works, but for specific effects, and are not a standard part of orchestral instrumentation.

– Your Uncle Bob
Jun 30 at 8:19






Consider the flügelhorn and the cornet, developed around the same time as the saxophone. They are also occasionally used in orchestral works, but for specific effects, and are not a standard part of orchestral instrumentation.

– Your Uncle Bob
Jun 30 at 8:19











4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















43














This question has been asked many times and various reason have been proposed:




The saxophone is too loud or doesn't blend




There are numerous recordings proving that the saxophone in the hands of a good player can play extremely quietly and blend anywhere.




There was a cartel of French instrument makers who wanted to protect their market and hindered the introduction of the saxophone.




This might have been true in France during Adolphe Sax's lifetime, but it doesn't explain why the saxophone didn't make its way into the orchestra later, or in other countries. Plus this boycott didn't stop the instrument finding its way into wind orchestras.




The saxophone had a reputation as a 'comedy' instrument.




This reputation didn't develop until the early 20th century in North America with ensembles like the "Six Brown Brothers".



I think the main reason is much more simple. The saxophone was fifty years too late. The symphony orchestra in its present form was complete by 1800. The fact that this combination still exists today, almost unchanged, shows how perfect it had become. There was no musical or acoustical reason to introduce a new instrument.






share|improve this answer




















  • 5





    I agree. Specifically, the symphony orchestra seems to have been “frozen in” at its current instrument makeup sometime during the romantic period. It might be an interesting question why.

    – leftaroundabout
    Jun 30 at 16:54






  • 5





    Where are the quoted parts from?

    – JiK
    Jul 1 at 6:48






  • 1





    @leftaroundabout The "why" is simple: large quantities of music were written with this instrumentation, so many orchestras formed with this instrumentation, so more music was written with this instrumentation, so more orchestras formed, etc. It's an endless self-reinforcing feedback loop.

    – Darrel Hoffman
    Jul 2 at 13:31











  • @DarrelHoffman that doesn't explain why the orchestra kept developing from the renaissance to the romantic, then stopped.

    – leftaroundabout
    Jul 2 at 13:32


















15














This r/classical comment by u/trambolino links to a 68-page thesis that answers your question.




Short version: 1. Most seminal symphonies were written before the invention of the saxophone. 2. When it was introduced, there weren't many skilled players. 3. The inventor Adolphe Sax manufactured all the parts of the saxophone himself, so part-makers and instrument makers rallied against his product (telling musicians to walk out of the orchestra if a saxophone would be included). 4. For the reasons mentioned above, there isn't much saxophone music from the past to inspire modern composers to include a saxophone in their symphonies.



Long version: THE MISSING SAXOPHONE:
Why the Saxophone Is Not a Permanent Member of the Orchestra

by
Mathew C. Ferraro. [Submitted to
The Dana School of Music
in Partial Fulfillment of the Requirements
for the Degree of
Master of Music
in
History and Literature.
YOUNGSTOWN STATE UNIVERSITY
May 2012]




I'll quote Ferraro's conclusion on p 54




      From its earliest days, the saxophone was well received by the musical
community. Approving reviews from outstanding composers and musicians who
supported Adolphe Sax quickly followed his introduction of the saxophone. Many
believed the saxophone had all the qualities to enhance the orchestra’s sound and thus
predicted its success and rapid implementation in the orchestra. Some composers wrote
parts for the saxophone in an attempt to implement the instrument in the orchestra. and
many stated they believed the saxophone had many qualities that could enhance and
expand the orchestra’s sound. Composers predicted its success and rapid implementation
in the orchestra.

      Sax’s initial intent was to create a bass instrument that was an alternative to the
bassoon and ophicleide, neither of which Sax was particularly fond. A gifted and selfassured
instrument maker, Sax eventually produced an entire family of saxophones that
many felt could bridge the gap in timbre between the brass and string sections of the
orchestra. Hector Berlioz, especially, hailed the superiority of Sax’s designs and felt the
instrument would make a fine addition to the orchestra. Other prominent composers of
the time, including Rossini and Meyerbeer, were also proponents of the newly invented
saxophone. All facts considered, it becomes clear that there were other mitigating
circumstances that negatively influenced the perception of the saxophone.

      Because of his many achievements and fierce defense of his skills, Sax created an
immediate rivalry with the established instrument manufacturers in Paris. His competitors
purposely sabotaged the introduction of the saxophone and its use in the orchestra.
Feeling threatened by Sax and the growing popularity of his instruments, his rivals




and p 55.




formed a unified front against him and were able to influence musicians and composers
to reject the instrument.

      The saxophone’s omission from the orchestra was also due to the lack of
professionally trained players. Although Adolphe Sax himself was appointed as instructor
of saxophone at the Paris Conservatory in the 1860s, he was dismissed after only a few
years and lessons were not offered again until 1942. Consequently the saxophone, on the
limited occasions it was required, was played or doubled by musicians who considered it
a secondary instrument. This lack of competent teachers and players resulted in
unsatisfactory performances that gave composers an inaccurate representation of the
possible applications of the saxophone.

      The saxophone continued to be overlooked through the remainder of the
nineteenth century, well after Sax’s patents had run out and his rivals had accomplished
their objective. The orchestra continued to include new and improved instruments with
the exception of the saxophone, which was making its way into other genres. It was
rapidly assimilated into military bands and by the turn of the century could be found in
vaudeville acts and other similar genres as a novelty instrument. All of these factors
combined suggest why the saxophone never became part of the orchestra. Whether these
factors were intentional, as was the case during the instrument’s introduction, or
consequential due to its popularity in mainstream music, it has left the saxophone with a
limited repertoire that begins nearly ninety years after its invention.







share|improve this answer


















  • 2





    Three of those four arguments (1, 2 & 4) could equally well apply to the tuba which did make it into the orchestra late, because there was a very real need for a brass instrument in that range and the tuba was superior to the other candidates (serpent, ophicleide). Unfortunately there was no need for another woodwind instrument.

    – PiedPiper
    Jul 1 at 7:48











  • Argument 3 doesn't explain why the saxophone was not (or very rarely) used later, for example by American composers after 1900.

    – PiedPiper
    Jul 1 at 7:52











  • In contrast, at least 3 types of saxophone are staples in concert band music (alto, tenor, and baritone). Clearly, there are large music ensembles very willing to use saxophones.

    – Dekkadeci
    Jul 1 at 13:40


















6














I think the reasons are economic rather than musical.



I don't really buy the argument that it was "invented too late", because it's just 11 years younger than the tuba (1846 vs 1835). And composers did start using it pretty early on - there are pieces by Bizet, Delibes, and others who included the sax.



But composers didn't really start considering the sax a serious instrument until the 1930s, when Sigurd Rascher started performing Borck's concerto (which was written for him). Then you start seeing it used by Shostakovich, Rachmaninoff, Bernstein, Prokofiev, Britten, Vaughan Williams, etc.



So there's a pretty decent repertoire out there today. But having spent 5 years on an orchestra's board, I can tell you that two things factor heavily into programming: ticket sales and royalty expenses. Pieces written after 1924 are likely to be more expensive to perform, and lesser known composers are far less likely to fill the seats. Major orchestras have to keep their budgets under control, and smaller ensembles simply don't have the money to perform much of the available music.






share|improve this answer


















  • 11





    The tuba, in addition to its own merits, served as a drop-in replacement for the serpent and ophicleide, which were not completely satisfactory as the contrabass of a Romantic orchestra's brass section. Effectively, the tuba had an established role and repertoire from day one. The saxophone did not.

    – Thom Smith
    Jun 30 at 16:24






  • 1





    The 1924 mention is probably a reference to the current USA public domain limits.

    – Dekkadeci
    Jul 1 at 13:42


















1














You beat me to it! In a nutshell Adolphe Sax had a battle in Paris between his invention, the saxophone, and French instrument makers who wanted to protect their market for other comparable instruments. That and his brusque personlaity saw the saxophone sidelined for policial reasons rather thna its virtues.






share|improve this answer

























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    4 Answers
    4






    active

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    4 Answers
    4






    active

    oldest

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    active

    oldest

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    active

    oldest

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    43














    This question has been asked many times and various reason have been proposed:




    The saxophone is too loud or doesn't blend




    There are numerous recordings proving that the saxophone in the hands of a good player can play extremely quietly and blend anywhere.




    There was a cartel of French instrument makers who wanted to protect their market and hindered the introduction of the saxophone.




    This might have been true in France during Adolphe Sax's lifetime, but it doesn't explain why the saxophone didn't make its way into the orchestra later, or in other countries. Plus this boycott didn't stop the instrument finding its way into wind orchestras.




    The saxophone had a reputation as a 'comedy' instrument.




    This reputation didn't develop until the early 20th century in North America with ensembles like the "Six Brown Brothers".



    I think the main reason is much more simple. The saxophone was fifty years too late. The symphony orchestra in its present form was complete by 1800. The fact that this combination still exists today, almost unchanged, shows how perfect it had become. There was no musical or acoustical reason to introduce a new instrument.






    share|improve this answer




















    • 5





      I agree. Specifically, the symphony orchestra seems to have been “frozen in” at its current instrument makeup sometime during the romantic period. It might be an interesting question why.

      – leftaroundabout
      Jun 30 at 16:54






    • 5





      Where are the quoted parts from?

      – JiK
      Jul 1 at 6:48






    • 1





      @leftaroundabout The "why" is simple: large quantities of music were written with this instrumentation, so many orchestras formed with this instrumentation, so more music was written with this instrumentation, so more orchestras formed, etc. It's an endless self-reinforcing feedback loop.

      – Darrel Hoffman
      Jul 2 at 13:31











    • @DarrelHoffman that doesn't explain why the orchestra kept developing from the renaissance to the romantic, then stopped.

      – leftaroundabout
      Jul 2 at 13:32















    43














    This question has been asked many times and various reason have been proposed:




    The saxophone is too loud or doesn't blend




    There are numerous recordings proving that the saxophone in the hands of a good player can play extremely quietly and blend anywhere.




    There was a cartel of French instrument makers who wanted to protect their market and hindered the introduction of the saxophone.




    This might have been true in France during Adolphe Sax's lifetime, but it doesn't explain why the saxophone didn't make its way into the orchestra later, or in other countries. Plus this boycott didn't stop the instrument finding its way into wind orchestras.




    The saxophone had a reputation as a 'comedy' instrument.




    This reputation didn't develop until the early 20th century in North America with ensembles like the "Six Brown Brothers".



    I think the main reason is much more simple. The saxophone was fifty years too late. The symphony orchestra in its present form was complete by 1800. The fact that this combination still exists today, almost unchanged, shows how perfect it had become. There was no musical or acoustical reason to introduce a new instrument.






    share|improve this answer




















    • 5





      I agree. Specifically, the symphony orchestra seems to have been “frozen in” at its current instrument makeup sometime during the romantic period. It might be an interesting question why.

      – leftaroundabout
      Jun 30 at 16:54






    • 5





      Where are the quoted parts from?

      – JiK
      Jul 1 at 6:48






    • 1





      @leftaroundabout The "why" is simple: large quantities of music were written with this instrumentation, so many orchestras formed with this instrumentation, so more music was written with this instrumentation, so more orchestras formed, etc. It's an endless self-reinforcing feedback loop.

      – Darrel Hoffman
      Jul 2 at 13:31











    • @DarrelHoffman that doesn't explain why the orchestra kept developing from the renaissance to the romantic, then stopped.

      – leftaroundabout
      Jul 2 at 13:32













    43












    43








    43







    This question has been asked many times and various reason have been proposed:




    The saxophone is too loud or doesn't blend




    There are numerous recordings proving that the saxophone in the hands of a good player can play extremely quietly and blend anywhere.




    There was a cartel of French instrument makers who wanted to protect their market and hindered the introduction of the saxophone.




    This might have been true in France during Adolphe Sax's lifetime, but it doesn't explain why the saxophone didn't make its way into the orchestra later, or in other countries. Plus this boycott didn't stop the instrument finding its way into wind orchestras.




    The saxophone had a reputation as a 'comedy' instrument.




    This reputation didn't develop until the early 20th century in North America with ensembles like the "Six Brown Brothers".



    I think the main reason is much more simple. The saxophone was fifty years too late. The symphony orchestra in its present form was complete by 1800. The fact that this combination still exists today, almost unchanged, shows how perfect it had become. There was no musical or acoustical reason to introduce a new instrument.






    share|improve this answer















    This question has been asked many times and various reason have been proposed:




    The saxophone is too loud or doesn't blend




    There are numerous recordings proving that the saxophone in the hands of a good player can play extremely quietly and blend anywhere.




    There was a cartel of French instrument makers who wanted to protect their market and hindered the introduction of the saxophone.




    This might have been true in France during Adolphe Sax's lifetime, but it doesn't explain why the saxophone didn't make its way into the orchestra later, or in other countries. Plus this boycott didn't stop the instrument finding its way into wind orchestras.




    The saxophone had a reputation as a 'comedy' instrument.




    This reputation didn't develop until the early 20th century in North America with ensembles like the "Six Brown Brothers".



    I think the main reason is much more simple. The saxophone was fifty years too late. The symphony orchestra in its present form was complete by 1800. The fact that this combination still exists today, almost unchanged, shows how perfect it had become. There was no musical or acoustical reason to introduce a new instrument.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited Jul 2 at 7:10









    Len

    183 bronze badges




    183 bronze badges










    answered Jun 30 at 14:22









    PiedPiperPiedPiper

    1,2454 silver badges17 bronze badges




    1,2454 silver badges17 bronze badges







    • 5





      I agree. Specifically, the symphony orchestra seems to have been “frozen in” at its current instrument makeup sometime during the romantic period. It might be an interesting question why.

      – leftaroundabout
      Jun 30 at 16:54






    • 5





      Where are the quoted parts from?

      – JiK
      Jul 1 at 6:48






    • 1





      @leftaroundabout The "why" is simple: large quantities of music were written with this instrumentation, so many orchestras formed with this instrumentation, so more music was written with this instrumentation, so more orchestras formed, etc. It's an endless self-reinforcing feedback loop.

      – Darrel Hoffman
      Jul 2 at 13:31











    • @DarrelHoffman that doesn't explain why the orchestra kept developing from the renaissance to the romantic, then stopped.

      – leftaroundabout
      Jul 2 at 13:32












    • 5





      I agree. Specifically, the symphony orchestra seems to have been “frozen in” at its current instrument makeup sometime during the romantic period. It might be an interesting question why.

      – leftaroundabout
      Jun 30 at 16:54






    • 5





      Where are the quoted parts from?

      – JiK
      Jul 1 at 6:48






    • 1





      @leftaroundabout The "why" is simple: large quantities of music were written with this instrumentation, so many orchestras formed with this instrumentation, so more music was written with this instrumentation, so more orchestras formed, etc. It's an endless self-reinforcing feedback loop.

      – Darrel Hoffman
      Jul 2 at 13:31











    • @DarrelHoffman that doesn't explain why the orchestra kept developing from the renaissance to the romantic, then stopped.

      – leftaroundabout
      Jul 2 at 13:32







    5




    5





    I agree. Specifically, the symphony orchestra seems to have been “frozen in” at its current instrument makeup sometime during the romantic period. It might be an interesting question why.

    – leftaroundabout
    Jun 30 at 16:54





    I agree. Specifically, the symphony orchestra seems to have been “frozen in” at its current instrument makeup sometime during the romantic period. It might be an interesting question why.

    – leftaroundabout
    Jun 30 at 16:54




    5




    5





    Where are the quoted parts from?

    – JiK
    Jul 1 at 6:48





    Where are the quoted parts from?

    – JiK
    Jul 1 at 6:48




    1




    1





    @leftaroundabout The "why" is simple: large quantities of music were written with this instrumentation, so many orchestras formed with this instrumentation, so more music was written with this instrumentation, so more orchestras formed, etc. It's an endless self-reinforcing feedback loop.

    – Darrel Hoffman
    Jul 2 at 13:31





    @leftaroundabout The "why" is simple: large quantities of music were written with this instrumentation, so many orchestras formed with this instrumentation, so more music was written with this instrumentation, so more orchestras formed, etc. It's an endless self-reinforcing feedback loop.

    – Darrel Hoffman
    Jul 2 at 13:31













    @DarrelHoffman that doesn't explain why the orchestra kept developing from the renaissance to the romantic, then stopped.

    – leftaroundabout
    Jul 2 at 13:32





    @DarrelHoffman that doesn't explain why the orchestra kept developing from the renaissance to the romantic, then stopped.

    – leftaroundabout
    Jul 2 at 13:32













    15














    This r/classical comment by u/trambolino links to a 68-page thesis that answers your question.




    Short version: 1. Most seminal symphonies were written before the invention of the saxophone. 2. When it was introduced, there weren't many skilled players. 3. The inventor Adolphe Sax manufactured all the parts of the saxophone himself, so part-makers and instrument makers rallied against his product (telling musicians to walk out of the orchestra if a saxophone would be included). 4. For the reasons mentioned above, there isn't much saxophone music from the past to inspire modern composers to include a saxophone in their symphonies.



    Long version: THE MISSING SAXOPHONE:
    Why the Saxophone Is Not a Permanent Member of the Orchestra

    by
    Mathew C. Ferraro. [Submitted to
    The Dana School of Music
    in Partial Fulfillment of the Requirements
    for the Degree of
    Master of Music
    in
    History and Literature.
    YOUNGSTOWN STATE UNIVERSITY
    May 2012]




    I'll quote Ferraro's conclusion on p 54




          From its earliest days, the saxophone was well received by the musical
    community. Approving reviews from outstanding composers and musicians who
    supported Adolphe Sax quickly followed his introduction of the saxophone. Many
    believed the saxophone had all the qualities to enhance the orchestra’s sound and thus
    predicted its success and rapid implementation in the orchestra. Some composers wrote
    parts for the saxophone in an attempt to implement the instrument in the orchestra. and
    many stated they believed the saxophone had many qualities that could enhance and
    expand the orchestra’s sound. Composers predicted its success and rapid implementation
    in the orchestra.

          Sax’s initial intent was to create a bass instrument that was an alternative to the
    bassoon and ophicleide, neither of which Sax was particularly fond. A gifted and selfassured
    instrument maker, Sax eventually produced an entire family of saxophones that
    many felt could bridge the gap in timbre between the brass and string sections of the
    orchestra. Hector Berlioz, especially, hailed the superiority of Sax’s designs and felt the
    instrument would make a fine addition to the orchestra. Other prominent composers of
    the time, including Rossini and Meyerbeer, were also proponents of the newly invented
    saxophone. All facts considered, it becomes clear that there were other mitigating
    circumstances that negatively influenced the perception of the saxophone.

          Because of his many achievements and fierce defense of his skills, Sax created an
    immediate rivalry with the established instrument manufacturers in Paris. His competitors
    purposely sabotaged the introduction of the saxophone and its use in the orchestra.
    Feeling threatened by Sax and the growing popularity of his instruments, his rivals




    and p 55.




    formed a unified front against him and were able to influence musicians and composers
    to reject the instrument.

          The saxophone’s omission from the orchestra was also due to the lack of
    professionally trained players. Although Adolphe Sax himself was appointed as instructor
    of saxophone at the Paris Conservatory in the 1860s, he was dismissed after only a few
    years and lessons were not offered again until 1942. Consequently the saxophone, on the
    limited occasions it was required, was played or doubled by musicians who considered it
    a secondary instrument. This lack of competent teachers and players resulted in
    unsatisfactory performances that gave composers an inaccurate representation of the
    possible applications of the saxophone.

          The saxophone continued to be overlooked through the remainder of the
    nineteenth century, well after Sax’s patents had run out and his rivals had accomplished
    their objective. The orchestra continued to include new and improved instruments with
    the exception of the saxophone, which was making its way into other genres. It was
    rapidly assimilated into military bands and by the turn of the century could be found in
    vaudeville acts and other similar genres as a novelty instrument. All of these factors
    combined suggest why the saxophone never became part of the orchestra. Whether these
    factors were intentional, as was the case during the instrument’s introduction, or
    consequential due to its popularity in mainstream music, it has left the saxophone with a
    limited repertoire that begins nearly ninety years after its invention.







    share|improve this answer


















    • 2





      Three of those four arguments (1, 2 & 4) could equally well apply to the tuba which did make it into the orchestra late, because there was a very real need for a brass instrument in that range and the tuba was superior to the other candidates (serpent, ophicleide). Unfortunately there was no need for another woodwind instrument.

      – PiedPiper
      Jul 1 at 7:48











    • Argument 3 doesn't explain why the saxophone was not (or very rarely) used later, for example by American composers after 1900.

      – PiedPiper
      Jul 1 at 7:52











    • In contrast, at least 3 types of saxophone are staples in concert band music (alto, tenor, and baritone). Clearly, there are large music ensembles very willing to use saxophones.

      – Dekkadeci
      Jul 1 at 13:40















    15














    This r/classical comment by u/trambolino links to a 68-page thesis that answers your question.




    Short version: 1. Most seminal symphonies were written before the invention of the saxophone. 2. When it was introduced, there weren't many skilled players. 3. The inventor Adolphe Sax manufactured all the parts of the saxophone himself, so part-makers and instrument makers rallied against his product (telling musicians to walk out of the orchestra if a saxophone would be included). 4. For the reasons mentioned above, there isn't much saxophone music from the past to inspire modern composers to include a saxophone in their symphonies.



    Long version: THE MISSING SAXOPHONE:
    Why the Saxophone Is Not a Permanent Member of the Orchestra

    by
    Mathew C. Ferraro. [Submitted to
    The Dana School of Music
    in Partial Fulfillment of the Requirements
    for the Degree of
    Master of Music
    in
    History and Literature.
    YOUNGSTOWN STATE UNIVERSITY
    May 2012]




    I'll quote Ferraro's conclusion on p 54




          From its earliest days, the saxophone was well received by the musical
    community. Approving reviews from outstanding composers and musicians who
    supported Adolphe Sax quickly followed his introduction of the saxophone. Many
    believed the saxophone had all the qualities to enhance the orchestra’s sound and thus
    predicted its success and rapid implementation in the orchestra. Some composers wrote
    parts for the saxophone in an attempt to implement the instrument in the orchestra. and
    many stated they believed the saxophone had many qualities that could enhance and
    expand the orchestra’s sound. Composers predicted its success and rapid implementation
    in the orchestra.

          Sax’s initial intent was to create a bass instrument that was an alternative to the
    bassoon and ophicleide, neither of which Sax was particularly fond. A gifted and selfassured
    instrument maker, Sax eventually produced an entire family of saxophones that
    many felt could bridge the gap in timbre between the brass and string sections of the
    orchestra. Hector Berlioz, especially, hailed the superiority of Sax’s designs and felt the
    instrument would make a fine addition to the orchestra. Other prominent composers of
    the time, including Rossini and Meyerbeer, were also proponents of the newly invented
    saxophone. All facts considered, it becomes clear that there were other mitigating
    circumstances that negatively influenced the perception of the saxophone.

          Because of his many achievements and fierce defense of his skills, Sax created an
    immediate rivalry with the established instrument manufacturers in Paris. His competitors
    purposely sabotaged the introduction of the saxophone and its use in the orchestra.
    Feeling threatened by Sax and the growing popularity of his instruments, his rivals




    and p 55.




    formed a unified front against him and were able to influence musicians and composers
    to reject the instrument.

          The saxophone’s omission from the orchestra was also due to the lack of
    professionally trained players. Although Adolphe Sax himself was appointed as instructor
    of saxophone at the Paris Conservatory in the 1860s, he was dismissed after only a few
    years and lessons were not offered again until 1942. Consequently the saxophone, on the
    limited occasions it was required, was played or doubled by musicians who considered it
    a secondary instrument. This lack of competent teachers and players resulted in
    unsatisfactory performances that gave composers an inaccurate representation of the
    possible applications of the saxophone.

          The saxophone continued to be overlooked through the remainder of the
    nineteenth century, well after Sax’s patents had run out and his rivals had accomplished
    their objective. The orchestra continued to include new and improved instruments with
    the exception of the saxophone, which was making its way into other genres. It was
    rapidly assimilated into military bands and by the turn of the century could be found in
    vaudeville acts and other similar genres as a novelty instrument. All of these factors
    combined suggest why the saxophone never became part of the orchestra. Whether these
    factors were intentional, as was the case during the instrument’s introduction, or
    consequential due to its popularity in mainstream music, it has left the saxophone with a
    limited repertoire that begins nearly ninety years after its invention.







    share|improve this answer


















    • 2





      Three of those four arguments (1, 2 & 4) could equally well apply to the tuba which did make it into the orchestra late, because there was a very real need for a brass instrument in that range and the tuba was superior to the other candidates (serpent, ophicleide). Unfortunately there was no need for another woodwind instrument.

      – PiedPiper
      Jul 1 at 7:48











    • Argument 3 doesn't explain why the saxophone was not (or very rarely) used later, for example by American composers after 1900.

      – PiedPiper
      Jul 1 at 7:52











    • In contrast, at least 3 types of saxophone are staples in concert band music (alto, tenor, and baritone). Clearly, there are large music ensembles very willing to use saxophones.

      – Dekkadeci
      Jul 1 at 13:40













    15












    15








    15







    This r/classical comment by u/trambolino links to a 68-page thesis that answers your question.




    Short version: 1. Most seminal symphonies were written before the invention of the saxophone. 2. When it was introduced, there weren't many skilled players. 3. The inventor Adolphe Sax manufactured all the parts of the saxophone himself, so part-makers and instrument makers rallied against his product (telling musicians to walk out of the orchestra if a saxophone would be included). 4. For the reasons mentioned above, there isn't much saxophone music from the past to inspire modern composers to include a saxophone in their symphonies.



    Long version: THE MISSING SAXOPHONE:
    Why the Saxophone Is Not a Permanent Member of the Orchestra

    by
    Mathew C. Ferraro. [Submitted to
    The Dana School of Music
    in Partial Fulfillment of the Requirements
    for the Degree of
    Master of Music
    in
    History and Literature.
    YOUNGSTOWN STATE UNIVERSITY
    May 2012]




    I'll quote Ferraro's conclusion on p 54




          From its earliest days, the saxophone was well received by the musical
    community. Approving reviews from outstanding composers and musicians who
    supported Adolphe Sax quickly followed his introduction of the saxophone. Many
    believed the saxophone had all the qualities to enhance the orchestra’s sound and thus
    predicted its success and rapid implementation in the orchestra. Some composers wrote
    parts for the saxophone in an attempt to implement the instrument in the orchestra. and
    many stated they believed the saxophone had many qualities that could enhance and
    expand the orchestra’s sound. Composers predicted its success and rapid implementation
    in the orchestra.

          Sax’s initial intent was to create a bass instrument that was an alternative to the
    bassoon and ophicleide, neither of which Sax was particularly fond. A gifted and selfassured
    instrument maker, Sax eventually produced an entire family of saxophones that
    many felt could bridge the gap in timbre between the brass and string sections of the
    orchestra. Hector Berlioz, especially, hailed the superiority of Sax’s designs and felt the
    instrument would make a fine addition to the orchestra. Other prominent composers of
    the time, including Rossini and Meyerbeer, were also proponents of the newly invented
    saxophone. All facts considered, it becomes clear that there were other mitigating
    circumstances that negatively influenced the perception of the saxophone.

          Because of his many achievements and fierce defense of his skills, Sax created an
    immediate rivalry with the established instrument manufacturers in Paris. His competitors
    purposely sabotaged the introduction of the saxophone and its use in the orchestra.
    Feeling threatened by Sax and the growing popularity of his instruments, his rivals




    and p 55.




    formed a unified front against him and were able to influence musicians and composers
    to reject the instrument.

          The saxophone’s omission from the orchestra was also due to the lack of
    professionally trained players. Although Adolphe Sax himself was appointed as instructor
    of saxophone at the Paris Conservatory in the 1860s, he was dismissed after only a few
    years and lessons were not offered again until 1942. Consequently the saxophone, on the
    limited occasions it was required, was played or doubled by musicians who considered it
    a secondary instrument. This lack of competent teachers and players resulted in
    unsatisfactory performances that gave composers an inaccurate representation of the
    possible applications of the saxophone.

          The saxophone continued to be overlooked through the remainder of the
    nineteenth century, well after Sax’s patents had run out and his rivals had accomplished
    their objective. The orchestra continued to include new and improved instruments with
    the exception of the saxophone, which was making its way into other genres. It was
    rapidly assimilated into military bands and by the turn of the century could be found in
    vaudeville acts and other similar genres as a novelty instrument. All of these factors
    combined suggest why the saxophone never became part of the orchestra. Whether these
    factors were intentional, as was the case during the instrument’s introduction, or
    consequential due to its popularity in mainstream music, it has left the saxophone with a
    limited repertoire that begins nearly ninety years after its invention.







    share|improve this answer













    This r/classical comment by u/trambolino links to a 68-page thesis that answers your question.




    Short version: 1. Most seminal symphonies were written before the invention of the saxophone. 2. When it was introduced, there weren't many skilled players. 3. The inventor Adolphe Sax manufactured all the parts of the saxophone himself, so part-makers and instrument makers rallied against his product (telling musicians to walk out of the orchestra if a saxophone would be included). 4. For the reasons mentioned above, there isn't much saxophone music from the past to inspire modern composers to include a saxophone in their symphonies.



    Long version: THE MISSING SAXOPHONE:
    Why the Saxophone Is Not a Permanent Member of the Orchestra

    by
    Mathew C. Ferraro. [Submitted to
    The Dana School of Music
    in Partial Fulfillment of the Requirements
    for the Degree of
    Master of Music
    in
    History and Literature.
    YOUNGSTOWN STATE UNIVERSITY
    May 2012]




    I'll quote Ferraro's conclusion on p 54




          From its earliest days, the saxophone was well received by the musical
    community. Approving reviews from outstanding composers and musicians who
    supported Adolphe Sax quickly followed his introduction of the saxophone. Many
    believed the saxophone had all the qualities to enhance the orchestra’s sound and thus
    predicted its success and rapid implementation in the orchestra. Some composers wrote
    parts for the saxophone in an attempt to implement the instrument in the orchestra. and
    many stated they believed the saxophone had many qualities that could enhance and
    expand the orchestra’s sound. Composers predicted its success and rapid implementation
    in the orchestra.

          Sax’s initial intent was to create a bass instrument that was an alternative to the
    bassoon and ophicleide, neither of which Sax was particularly fond. A gifted and selfassured
    instrument maker, Sax eventually produced an entire family of saxophones that
    many felt could bridge the gap in timbre between the brass and string sections of the
    orchestra. Hector Berlioz, especially, hailed the superiority of Sax’s designs and felt the
    instrument would make a fine addition to the orchestra. Other prominent composers of
    the time, including Rossini and Meyerbeer, were also proponents of the newly invented
    saxophone. All facts considered, it becomes clear that there were other mitigating
    circumstances that negatively influenced the perception of the saxophone.

          Because of his many achievements and fierce defense of his skills, Sax created an
    immediate rivalry with the established instrument manufacturers in Paris. His competitors
    purposely sabotaged the introduction of the saxophone and its use in the orchestra.
    Feeling threatened by Sax and the growing popularity of his instruments, his rivals




    and p 55.




    formed a unified front against him and were able to influence musicians and composers
    to reject the instrument.

          The saxophone’s omission from the orchestra was also due to the lack of
    professionally trained players. Although Adolphe Sax himself was appointed as instructor
    of saxophone at the Paris Conservatory in the 1860s, he was dismissed after only a few
    years and lessons were not offered again until 1942. Consequently the saxophone, on the
    limited occasions it was required, was played or doubled by musicians who considered it
    a secondary instrument. This lack of competent teachers and players resulted in
    unsatisfactory performances that gave composers an inaccurate representation of the
    possible applications of the saxophone.

          The saxophone continued to be overlooked through the remainder of the
    nineteenth century, well after Sax’s patents had run out and his rivals had accomplished
    their objective. The orchestra continued to include new and improved instruments with
    the exception of the saxophone, which was making its way into other genres. It was
    rapidly assimilated into military bands and by the turn of the century could be found in
    vaudeville acts and other similar genres as a novelty instrument. All of these factors
    combined suggest why the saxophone never became part of the orchestra. Whether these
    factors were intentional, as was the case during the instrument’s introduction, or
    consequential due to its popularity in mainstream music, it has left the saxophone with a
    limited repertoire that begins nearly ninety years after its invention.








    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered Jul 1 at 0:40









    Greek - Area 51 ProposalGreek - Area 51 Proposal

    1




    1







    • 2





      Three of those four arguments (1, 2 & 4) could equally well apply to the tuba which did make it into the orchestra late, because there was a very real need for a brass instrument in that range and the tuba was superior to the other candidates (serpent, ophicleide). Unfortunately there was no need for another woodwind instrument.

      – PiedPiper
      Jul 1 at 7:48











    • Argument 3 doesn't explain why the saxophone was not (or very rarely) used later, for example by American composers after 1900.

      – PiedPiper
      Jul 1 at 7:52











    • In contrast, at least 3 types of saxophone are staples in concert band music (alto, tenor, and baritone). Clearly, there are large music ensembles very willing to use saxophones.

      – Dekkadeci
      Jul 1 at 13:40












    • 2





      Three of those four arguments (1, 2 & 4) could equally well apply to the tuba which did make it into the orchestra late, because there was a very real need for a brass instrument in that range and the tuba was superior to the other candidates (serpent, ophicleide). Unfortunately there was no need for another woodwind instrument.

      – PiedPiper
      Jul 1 at 7:48











    • Argument 3 doesn't explain why the saxophone was not (or very rarely) used later, for example by American composers after 1900.

      – PiedPiper
      Jul 1 at 7:52











    • In contrast, at least 3 types of saxophone are staples in concert band music (alto, tenor, and baritone). Clearly, there are large music ensembles very willing to use saxophones.

      – Dekkadeci
      Jul 1 at 13:40







    2




    2





    Three of those four arguments (1, 2 & 4) could equally well apply to the tuba which did make it into the orchestra late, because there was a very real need for a brass instrument in that range and the tuba was superior to the other candidates (serpent, ophicleide). Unfortunately there was no need for another woodwind instrument.

    – PiedPiper
    Jul 1 at 7:48





    Three of those four arguments (1, 2 & 4) could equally well apply to the tuba which did make it into the orchestra late, because there was a very real need for a brass instrument in that range and the tuba was superior to the other candidates (serpent, ophicleide). Unfortunately there was no need for another woodwind instrument.

    – PiedPiper
    Jul 1 at 7:48













    Argument 3 doesn't explain why the saxophone was not (or very rarely) used later, for example by American composers after 1900.

    – PiedPiper
    Jul 1 at 7:52





    Argument 3 doesn't explain why the saxophone was not (or very rarely) used later, for example by American composers after 1900.

    – PiedPiper
    Jul 1 at 7:52













    In contrast, at least 3 types of saxophone are staples in concert band music (alto, tenor, and baritone). Clearly, there are large music ensembles very willing to use saxophones.

    – Dekkadeci
    Jul 1 at 13:40





    In contrast, at least 3 types of saxophone are staples in concert band music (alto, tenor, and baritone). Clearly, there are large music ensembles very willing to use saxophones.

    – Dekkadeci
    Jul 1 at 13:40











    6














    I think the reasons are economic rather than musical.



    I don't really buy the argument that it was "invented too late", because it's just 11 years younger than the tuba (1846 vs 1835). And composers did start using it pretty early on - there are pieces by Bizet, Delibes, and others who included the sax.



    But composers didn't really start considering the sax a serious instrument until the 1930s, when Sigurd Rascher started performing Borck's concerto (which was written for him). Then you start seeing it used by Shostakovich, Rachmaninoff, Bernstein, Prokofiev, Britten, Vaughan Williams, etc.



    So there's a pretty decent repertoire out there today. But having spent 5 years on an orchestra's board, I can tell you that two things factor heavily into programming: ticket sales and royalty expenses. Pieces written after 1924 are likely to be more expensive to perform, and lesser known composers are far less likely to fill the seats. Major orchestras have to keep their budgets under control, and smaller ensembles simply don't have the money to perform much of the available music.






    share|improve this answer


















    • 11





      The tuba, in addition to its own merits, served as a drop-in replacement for the serpent and ophicleide, which were not completely satisfactory as the contrabass of a Romantic orchestra's brass section. Effectively, the tuba had an established role and repertoire from day one. The saxophone did not.

      – Thom Smith
      Jun 30 at 16:24






    • 1





      The 1924 mention is probably a reference to the current USA public domain limits.

      – Dekkadeci
      Jul 1 at 13:42















    6














    I think the reasons are economic rather than musical.



    I don't really buy the argument that it was "invented too late", because it's just 11 years younger than the tuba (1846 vs 1835). And composers did start using it pretty early on - there are pieces by Bizet, Delibes, and others who included the sax.



    But composers didn't really start considering the sax a serious instrument until the 1930s, when Sigurd Rascher started performing Borck's concerto (which was written for him). Then you start seeing it used by Shostakovich, Rachmaninoff, Bernstein, Prokofiev, Britten, Vaughan Williams, etc.



    So there's a pretty decent repertoire out there today. But having spent 5 years on an orchestra's board, I can tell you that two things factor heavily into programming: ticket sales and royalty expenses. Pieces written after 1924 are likely to be more expensive to perform, and lesser known composers are far less likely to fill the seats. Major orchestras have to keep their budgets under control, and smaller ensembles simply don't have the money to perform much of the available music.






    share|improve this answer


















    • 11





      The tuba, in addition to its own merits, served as a drop-in replacement for the serpent and ophicleide, which were not completely satisfactory as the contrabass of a Romantic orchestra's brass section. Effectively, the tuba had an established role and repertoire from day one. The saxophone did not.

      – Thom Smith
      Jun 30 at 16:24






    • 1





      The 1924 mention is probably a reference to the current USA public domain limits.

      – Dekkadeci
      Jul 1 at 13:42













    6












    6








    6







    I think the reasons are economic rather than musical.



    I don't really buy the argument that it was "invented too late", because it's just 11 years younger than the tuba (1846 vs 1835). And composers did start using it pretty early on - there are pieces by Bizet, Delibes, and others who included the sax.



    But composers didn't really start considering the sax a serious instrument until the 1930s, when Sigurd Rascher started performing Borck's concerto (which was written for him). Then you start seeing it used by Shostakovich, Rachmaninoff, Bernstein, Prokofiev, Britten, Vaughan Williams, etc.



    So there's a pretty decent repertoire out there today. But having spent 5 years on an orchestra's board, I can tell you that two things factor heavily into programming: ticket sales and royalty expenses. Pieces written after 1924 are likely to be more expensive to perform, and lesser known composers are far less likely to fill the seats. Major orchestras have to keep their budgets under control, and smaller ensembles simply don't have the money to perform much of the available music.






    share|improve this answer













    I think the reasons are economic rather than musical.



    I don't really buy the argument that it was "invented too late", because it's just 11 years younger than the tuba (1846 vs 1835). And composers did start using it pretty early on - there are pieces by Bizet, Delibes, and others who included the sax.



    But composers didn't really start considering the sax a serious instrument until the 1930s, when Sigurd Rascher started performing Borck's concerto (which was written for him). Then you start seeing it used by Shostakovich, Rachmaninoff, Bernstein, Prokofiev, Britten, Vaughan Williams, etc.



    So there's a pretty decent repertoire out there today. But having spent 5 years on an orchestra's board, I can tell you that two things factor heavily into programming: ticket sales and royalty expenses. Pieces written after 1924 are likely to be more expensive to perform, and lesser known composers are far less likely to fill the seats. Major orchestras have to keep their budgets under control, and smaller ensembles simply don't have the money to perform much of the available music.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered Jun 30 at 15:39









    Tom SerbTom Serb

    2,6802 silver badges15 bronze badges




    2,6802 silver badges15 bronze badges







    • 11





      The tuba, in addition to its own merits, served as a drop-in replacement for the serpent and ophicleide, which were not completely satisfactory as the contrabass of a Romantic orchestra's brass section. Effectively, the tuba had an established role and repertoire from day one. The saxophone did not.

      – Thom Smith
      Jun 30 at 16:24






    • 1





      The 1924 mention is probably a reference to the current USA public domain limits.

      – Dekkadeci
      Jul 1 at 13:42












    • 11





      The tuba, in addition to its own merits, served as a drop-in replacement for the serpent and ophicleide, which were not completely satisfactory as the contrabass of a Romantic orchestra's brass section. Effectively, the tuba had an established role and repertoire from day one. The saxophone did not.

      – Thom Smith
      Jun 30 at 16:24






    • 1





      The 1924 mention is probably a reference to the current USA public domain limits.

      – Dekkadeci
      Jul 1 at 13:42







    11




    11





    The tuba, in addition to its own merits, served as a drop-in replacement for the serpent and ophicleide, which were not completely satisfactory as the contrabass of a Romantic orchestra's brass section. Effectively, the tuba had an established role and repertoire from day one. The saxophone did not.

    – Thom Smith
    Jun 30 at 16:24





    The tuba, in addition to its own merits, served as a drop-in replacement for the serpent and ophicleide, which were not completely satisfactory as the contrabass of a Romantic orchestra's brass section. Effectively, the tuba had an established role and repertoire from day one. The saxophone did not.

    – Thom Smith
    Jun 30 at 16:24




    1




    1





    The 1924 mention is probably a reference to the current USA public domain limits.

    – Dekkadeci
    Jul 1 at 13:42





    The 1924 mention is probably a reference to the current USA public domain limits.

    – Dekkadeci
    Jul 1 at 13:42











    1














    You beat me to it! In a nutshell Adolphe Sax had a battle in Paris between his invention, the saxophone, and French instrument makers who wanted to protect their market for other comparable instruments. That and his brusque personlaity saw the saxophone sidelined for policial reasons rather thna its virtues.






    share|improve this answer



























      1














      You beat me to it! In a nutshell Adolphe Sax had a battle in Paris between his invention, the saxophone, and French instrument makers who wanted to protect their market for other comparable instruments. That and his brusque personlaity saw the saxophone sidelined for policial reasons rather thna its virtues.






      share|improve this answer

























        1












        1








        1







        You beat me to it! In a nutshell Adolphe Sax had a battle in Paris between his invention, the saxophone, and French instrument makers who wanted to protect their market for other comparable instruments. That and his brusque personlaity saw the saxophone sidelined for policial reasons rather thna its virtues.






        share|improve this answer













        You beat me to it! In a nutshell Adolphe Sax had a battle in Paris between his invention, the saxophone, and French instrument makers who wanted to protect their market for other comparable instruments. That and his brusque personlaity saw the saxophone sidelined for policial reasons rather thna its virtues.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered Jun 30 at 9:31









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