What gave NASA the confidence for a translunar injection in Apollo 8?Were there any unmanned expeditions to the moon that returned to Earth prior to Apollo?Why was the Saturn V considered to be human-rated after Apollo 6?What did Apollo need the crewed Command Module for?What coordinate system was used for the Apollo missions?Why does the Apollo-8 Trans-Lunar Injection burn appear to be pulsing in this photo?What exactly turned on the light indicating Apollo 8 was starting to fall towards the Moon?How many people spoke to Apollo 8 from outside the US?What athletic shoes have astronauts been given over the years for ground training (Apollo program etc..)?Did NASA have a term for the “sky” during the Apollo missionsWhat is that hissing and buzzing background noise on some of NASA Apollo audio recordings?Why was the Saturn V considered to be human-rated after Apollo 6?Why didn't NASA launch communications relay satellites for the Apollo missions?
Has the US government provided details on plans to deal with AIDS and childhood cancer?
Is the EU really banning "toxic propellants" in 2020? How is that going to work?
Gold Battle KoTH
Why do MS SQL Server SEQUENCEs not have an ORDER parameter like Oracle?
How do discovery writers hibernate?
Adding a (stair/baby) gate without facing walls
How to gracefully excuse yourself from a meeting due to emergencies such as a restroom break?
Guidelines for writing a chord progression
What are the groups that can legally challenge Trump's tariffs and can they have them reversed?
Password management for kids - what's a good way to start?
How to derive trigonometric Cartesian equation from parametric
Why have both: BJT and FET transistors on IC output?
Went to a big 4 but got fired for underperformance in a year recently - Now every one thinks I'm pro - How to balance expectations?
Best Ergonomic Design for a handheld ranged weapon
Please explain the difference in the order of naming Tzelafchad's daughters
Constant Scan spooling
Disease transmitted by postage stamps
Why are sugars in whole fruits not digested the same way sugars in juice are?
What is the name of this type of figure?
How can flights operated by the same company have such different prices when marketed by another?
Can I say "Gesundheit" if someone is coughing?
Why are prop blades not shaped like household fan blades?
Python π = 1 + (1/2) + (1/3) + (1/4) - (1/5) + (1/6) + (1/7) + (1/8) + (1/9) - (1/10) ...1748 Euler
How does Asimov's second law deal with contradictory orders from different people?
What gave NASA the confidence for a translunar injection in Apollo 8?
Were there any unmanned expeditions to the moon that returned to Earth prior to Apollo?Why was the Saturn V considered to be human-rated after Apollo 6?What did Apollo need the crewed Command Module for?What coordinate system was used for the Apollo missions?Why does the Apollo-8 Trans-Lunar Injection burn appear to be pulsing in this photo?What exactly turned on the light indicating Apollo 8 was starting to fall towards the Moon?How many people spoke to Apollo 8 from outside the US?What athletic shoes have astronauts been given over the years for ground training (Apollo program etc..)?Did NASA have a term for the “sky” during the Apollo missionsWhat is that hissing and buzzing background noise on some of NASA Apollo audio recordings?Why was the Saturn V considered to be human-rated after Apollo 6?Why didn't NASA launch communications relay satellites for the Apollo missions?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
$begingroup$
In Carrying the Fire, Michael Collins observes humorously that Apollo 8 was only the third time the Saturn V had flown. To a non-specialist, it does seem remarkable that NASA was confident to put humans on the mission, and to perform the first translunar injection at the same time. (I've grown up in an era where NASA seems more cautious.) Was there simply enough data from the unmanned runs to have confidence in the system? (Is translunar injection not as difficult as it seems?) Were people concerned about the pace of the program?
apollo-program apollo-8
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In Carrying the Fire, Michael Collins observes humorously that Apollo 8 was only the third time the Saturn V had flown. To a non-specialist, it does seem remarkable that NASA was confident to put humans on the mission, and to perform the first translunar injection at the same time. (I've grown up in an era where NASA seems more cautious.) Was there simply enough data from the unmanned runs to have confidence in the system? (Is translunar injection not as difficult as it seems?) Were people concerned about the pace of the program?
apollo-program apollo-8
$endgroup$
5
$begingroup$
Closely related: Why was the Saturn V considered to be human rated after Apollo 6
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
Jul 23 at 1:26
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In Carrying the Fire, Michael Collins observes humorously that Apollo 8 was only the third time the Saturn V had flown. To a non-specialist, it does seem remarkable that NASA was confident to put humans on the mission, and to perform the first translunar injection at the same time. (I've grown up in an era where NASA seems more cautious.) Was there simply enough data from the unmanned runs to have confidence in the system? (Is translunar injection not as difficult as it seems?) Were people concerned about the pace of the program?
apollo-program apollo-8
$endgroup$
In Carrying the Fire, Michael Collins observes humorously that Apollo 8 was only the third time the Saturn V had flown. To a non-specialist, it does seem remarkable that NASA was confident to put humans on the mission, and to perform the first translunar injection at the same time. (I've grown up in an era where NASA seems more cautious.) Was there simply enough data from the unmanned runs to have confidence in the system? (Is translunar injection not as difficult as it seems?) Were people concerned about the pace of the program?
apollo-program apollo-8
apollo-program apollo-8
asked Jul 22 at 23:56
adam.bakeradam.baker
3002 silver badges7 bronze badges
3002 silver badges7 bronze badges
5
$begingroup$
Closely related: Why was the Saturn V considered to be human rated after Apollo 6
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
Jul 23 at 1:26
add a comment |
5
$begingroup$
Closely related: Why was the Saturn V considered to be human rated after Apollo 6
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
Jul 23 at 1:26
5
5
$begingroup$
Closely related: Why was the Saturn V considered to be human rated after Apollo 6
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
Jul 23 at 1:26
$begingroup$
Closely related: Why was the Saturn V considered to be human rated after Apollo 6
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
Jul 23 at 1:26
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
As I answered to another question:
Both time and budget pressure forced the program to take risks that they might not have in an ideal situation. Flying live crews on Apollos 7 and 8 was part of that risk.
Initially the plan was to fly a CSM and LM together in Earth orbit for Apollo 8. The LM was behind schedule and not ready for a test flight at the end of 1968, so rather than repeat the CSM-only LEO flight of Apollo 7, George Low had the idea of making Apollo 8 a lunar orbit mission. Almost everyone who heard Low's proposal had more or less the same initial reaction you did, but on further consideration, everyone eventually decided that there was enough confidence in the system to take the risk.
It was, certainly, risky to fly the Saturn V crewed at that point; longitudinal ("pogo") oscillation in the second stage was still a not-completely-solved problem, and lots of things could go wrong with the booster, but at every step of the way, there were contingency options and backups.
If the booster failed before reaching orbit, the launch escape system could pull the crew to safety; the LES had been demonstrated on 4 test flights.
If the S-IVB stage failed during the translunar injection burn, or if the burn somehow went wildly off-target, the main engine on the service module could be used to abort and get into a proper orbit for Earth reentry -- the Apollo CSM had a tremendous amount of maneuvering capability.
The service module's engine had already been well demonstrated on Apollo 4, 6, and 7, with eight separate burns on that last mission. If the service module's engine failed to fire to get into lunar orbit, the small RCS thrusters on the spacecraft (themselves highly redundant) could be used to make the course corrections needed to return home.
The big no-backups risk was, of course, that the service module engine would fire to enter lunar orbit, and then not fire for the trans-Earth return. Note that the engine would normally fire for a mid-course correction or two on the way to the moon as well, so the crew could have good confidence in its behavior by the time they reached the moon.
So in the end it was a combination of your guesses: there was a fair amount of confidence and data; translunar injection wasn't exactly easy, but anything that went wrong was correctable; but mostly, the pace of the program required some calculated risks to be taken.
$endgroup$
7
$begingroup$
To add to your answer, additional pressure to assume the risk came from reports out of Russia of their most recent space achievements. While NASA was closing the gap, it wasn't until Apollo 8 that the US clearly assumed the lead in the space race.
$endgroup$
– Anthony X
Jul 23 at 2:52
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As a complete vehicle, it was only the third flight. But the individual components had many previous flights, or weren't involved in the TLI. Let's look at the components from top to bottom.
Launch escape tower. Prior to Apollo 8, this system had 2 launch pad abort tests, 4 flight abort tests on the Little Joe II rocket, and 2 abort tests on Saturn I flights. Suffice to say, confidence in the escape tower was high. By the time of the TLI, it would have been jettisoned.
Command module. There were 5 unmanned flights of the Block I version of the CM. Many of the modifications between Block I and Block II version weren't much of a risk. Regardless, they passed qualification testing and were used on Apollo 7 without issues. This included
- a new hatch to address the Apollo I fire. This was a considerable risk, but had also been thoroughly tested.
- a docking mechanism to dock with the lunar module. This wouldn't even be used until Apollo 9.
- the outer surface was aluminized Kapton, instead of painted white.
- the covers of the scimitar antennas were proven unnecessary and were deleted.
- more connections were added to the umbilical.
- there was a slight rearrangement of the RCS engines.
- the flight computer was hardwired rather than plug-in, which actually improved reliability.
Service module. If something happened during TLI, this had the engine that would get the astronauts home. Like the CM, there were 5 unmanned Block I flights and the manned Apollo 7 Block II flight. Major differences between Block I and Block II:
- some changes in tank geometries.
- relocation of some fuel cells and their tanks.
- radiator panels were moved to different sectors.
- different paint job.
However, this was the first flight with a high-gain (dish) antenna. The omnidirectional antenna had been used on previous flights and could be used as a backup.
Lunar module. A non-functional test article (LTA-B) was present on Apollo 8 to simulate its weight, center of mass, and structure. A full-fledged LM wouldn't be necessary until Apollo 9, and one had been tested in Earth orbit anyway on the unmanned Apollo 5 flight.
Saturn-Apollo adapter. This is conical part that covers the LM. Previously flown on Apollo 4 and 6, so Apollo 8 was its third mission. Not really an issue until Apollo 9 practiced docking and extraction.
Instrument unit. This controls the Saturn V stages. There were 13 launches before Apollo 8.
Saturn S-IVB third stage. This was the stage that actually did the TLI, but it had a successful history. Flew 4 unmanned missions as a Saturn IB second stage, 1 manned mission (Apollo 7) as a Saturn IB second stage, and 2 unmanned missions as a Saturn V third stage.
Saturn S-II second stage. Apollo 8 was the third flight. In an emergency, either the launch escape tower or the SM would be used for an abort. Discarded before TLI.
Saturn S-IC first stage. Apollo 8 was the third flight. Failure would result in an abort using the launch escape tower. Discarded before TLI.
So nearly everything (except the high-gain antenna) had at least one previous successful flight.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
@RussellBorogove: Correct, but there was a boilerplate (LTA-B) in its place to simulate its weight and structure. They didn't do any procedures with it, and it was discarded with the third stage. Is my answer unclear about that?
$endgroup$
– DrSheldon
Jul 23 at 13:25
1
$begingroup$
Thanks, I edited that part of the answer.
$endgroup$
– DrSheldon
Jul 23 at 13:59
1
$begingroup$
It would be more accurate to say that the LES had two pad abort tests, three flight abort tests, and an actual abort. A-003 was supposed to be a high-altitude abort test, but when the rocket started to break up in flight, the escape system successfully pulled the boilerplate CM away.
$endgroup$
– Mark
Jul 23 at 21:54
$begingroup$
Good point that the S-IVB had already flown several times on Saturn IBs.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
Jul 24 at 0:50
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "508"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fspace.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f37595%2fwhat-gave-nasa-the-confidence-for-a-translunar-injection-in-apollo-8%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
As I answered to another question:
Both time and budget pressure forced the program to take risks that they might not have in an ideal situation. Flying live crews on Apollos 7 and 8 was part of that risk.
Initially the plan was to fly a CSM and LM together in Earth orbit for Apollo 8. The LM was behind schedule and not ready for a test flight at the end of 1968, so rather than repeat the CSM-only LEO flight of Apollo 7, George Low had the idea of making Apollo 8 a lunar orbit mission. Almost everyone who heard Low's proposal had more or less the same initial reaction you did, but on further consideration, everyone eventually decided that there was enough confidence in the system to take the risk.
It was, certainly, risky to fly the Saturn V crewed at that point; longitudinal ("pogo") oscillation in the second stage was still a not-completely-solved problem, and lots of things could go wrong with the booster, but at every step of the way, there were contingency options and backups.
If the booster failed before reaching orbit, the launch escape system could pull the crew to safety; the LES had been demonstrated on 4 test flights.
If the S-IVB stage failed during the translunar injection burn, or if the burn somehow went wildly off-target, the main engine on the service module could be used to abort and get into a proper orbit for Earth reentry -- the Apollo CSM had a tremendous amount of maneuvering capability.
The service module's engine had already been well demonstrated on Apollo 4, 6, and 7, with eight separate burns on that last mission. If the service module's engine failed to fire to get into lunar orbit, the small RCS thrusters on the spacecraft (themselves highly redundant) could be used to make the course corrections needed to return home.
The big no-backups risk was, of course, that the service module engine would fire to enter lunar orbit, and then not fire for the trans-Earth return. Note that the engine would normally fire for a mid-course correction or two on the way to the moon as well, so the crew could have good confidence in its behavior by the time they reached the moon.
So in the end it was a combination of your guesses: there was a fair amount of confidence and data; translunar injection wasn't exactly easy, but anything that went wrong was correctable; but mostly, the pace of the program required some calculated risks to be taken.
$endgroup$
7
$begingroup$
To add to your answer, additional pressure to assume the risk came from reports out of Russia of their most recent space achievements. While NASA was closing the gap, it wasn't until Apollo 8 that the US clearly assumed the lead in the space race.
$endgroup$
– Anthony X
Jul 23 at 2:52
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As I answered to another question:
Both time and budget pressure forced the program to take risks that they might not have in an ideal situation. Flying live crews on Apollos 7 and 8 was part of that risk.
Initially the plan was to fly a CSM and LM together in Earth orbit for Apollo 8. The LM was behind schedule and not ready for a test flight at the end of 1968, so rather than repeat the CSM-only LEO flight of Apollo 7, George Low had the idea of making Apollo 8 a lunar orbit mission. Almost everyone who heard Low's proposal had more or less the same initial reaction you did, but on further consideration, everyone eventually decided that there was enough confidence in the system to take the risk.
It was, certainly, risky to fly the Saturn V crewed at that point; longitudinal ("pogo") oscillation in the second stage was still a not-completely-solved problem, and lots of things could go wrong with the booster, but at every step of the way, there were contingency options and backups.
If the booster failed before reaching orbit, the launch escape system could pull the crew to safety; the LES had been demonstrated on 4 test flights.
If the S-IVB stage failed during the translunar injection burn, or if the burn somehow went wildly off-target, the main engine on the service module could be used to abort and get into a proper orbit for Earth reentry -- the Apollo CSM had a tremendous amount of maneuvering capability.
The service module's engine had already been well demonstrated on Apollo 4, 6, and 7, with eight separate burns on that last mission. If the service module's engine failed to fire to get into lunar orbit, the small RCS thrusters on the spacecraft (themselves highly redundant) could be used to make the course corrections needed to return home.
The big no-backups risk was, of course, that the service module engine would fire to enter lunar orbit, and then not fire for the trans-Earth return. Note that the engine would normally fire for a mid-course correction or two on the way to the moon as well, so the crew could have good confidence in its behavior by the time they reached the moon.
So in the end it was a combination of your guesses: there was a fair amount of confidence and data; translunar injection wasn't exactly easy, but anything that went wrong was correctable; but mostly, the pace of the program required some calculated risks to be taken.
$endgroup$
7
$begingroup$
To add to your answer, additional pressure to assume the risk came from reports out of Russia of their most recent space achievements. While NASA was closing the gap, it wasn't until Apollo 8 that the US clearly assumed the lead in the space race.
$endgroup$
– Anthony X
Jul 23 at 2:52
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As I answered to another question:
Both time and budget pressure forced the program to take risks that they might not have in an ideal situation. Flying live crews on Apollos 7 and 8 was part of that risk.
Initially the plan was to fly a CSM and LM together in Earth orbit for Apollo 8. The LM was behind schedule and not ready for a test flight at the end of 1968, so rather than repeat the CSM-only LEO flight of Apollo 7, George Low had the idea of making Apollo 8 a lunar orbit mission. Almost everyone who heard Low's proposal had more or less the same initial reaction you did, but on further consideration, everyone eventually decided that there was enough confidence in the system to take the risk.
It was, certainly, risky to fly the Saturn V crewed at that point; longitudinal ("pogo") oscillation in the second stage was still a not-completely-solved problem, and lots of things could go wrong with the booster, but at every step of the way, there were contingency options and backups.
If the booster failed before reaching orbit, the launch escape system could pull the crew to safety; the LES had been demonstrated on 4 test flights.
If the S-IVB stage failed during the translunar injection burn, or if the burn somehow went wildly off-target, the main engine on the service module could be used to abort and get into a proper orbit for Earth reentry -- the Apollo CSM had a tremendous amount of maneuvering capability.
The service module's engine had already been well demonstrated on Apollo 4, 6, and 7, with eight separate burns on that last mission. If the service module's engine failed to fire to get into lunar orbit, the small RCS thrusters on the spacecraft (themselves highly redundant) could be used to make the course corrections needed to return home.
The big no-backups risk was, of course, that the service module engine would fire to enter lunar orbit, and then not fire for the trans-Earth return. Note that the engine would normally fire for a mid-course correction or two on the way to the moon as well, so the crew could have good confidence in its behavior by the time they reached the moon.
So in the end it was a combination of your guesses: there was a fair amount of confidence and data; translunar injection wasn't exactly easy, but anything that went wrong was correctable; but mostly, the pace of the program required some calculated risks to be taken.
$endgroup$
As I answered to another question:
Both time and budget pressure forced the program to take risks that they might not have in an ideal situation. Flying live crews on Apollos 7 and 8 was part of that risk.
Initially the plan was to fly a CSM and LM together in Earth orbit for Apollo 8. The LM was behind schedule and not ready for a test flight at the end of 1968, so rather than repeat the CSM-only LEO flight of Apollo 7, George Low had the idea of making Apollo 8 a lunar orbit mission. Almost everyone who heard Low's proposal had more or less the same initial reaction you did, but on further consideration, everyone eventually decided that there was enough confidence in the system to take the risk.
It was, certainly, risky to fly the Saturn V crewed at that point; longitudinal ("pogo") oscillation in the second stage was still a not-completely-solved problem, and lots of things could go wrong with the booster, but at every step of the way, there were contingency options and backups.
If the booster failed before reaching orbit, the launch escape system could pull the crew to safety; the LES had been demonstrated on 4 test flights.
If the S-IVB stage failed during the translunar injection burn, or if the burn somehow went wildly off-target, the main engine on the service module could be used to abort and get into a proper orbit for Earth reentry -- the Apollo CSM had a tremendous amount of maneuvering capability.
The service module's engine had already been well demonstrated on Apollo 4, 6, and 7, with eight separate burns on that last mission. If the service module's engine failed to fire to get into lunar orbit, the small RCS thrusters on the spacecraft (themselves highly redundant) could be used to make the course corrections needed to return home.
The big no-backups risk was, of course, that the service module engine would fire to enter lunar orbit, and then not fire for the trans-Earth return. Note that the engine would normally fire for a mid-course correction or two on the way to the moon as well, so the crew could have good confidence in its behavior by the time they reached the moon.
So in the end it was a combination of your guesses: there was a fair amount of confidence and data; translunar injection wasn't exactly easy, but anything that went wrong was correctable; but mostly, the pace of the program required some calculated risks to be taken.
edited Jul 24 at 7:19
Community♦
1
1
answered Jul 23 at 2:07
Russell BorogoveRussell Borogove
100k3 gold badges353 silver badges436 bronze badges
100k3 gold badges353 silver badges436 bronze badges
7
$begingroup$
To add to your answer, additional pressure to assume the risk came from reports out of Russia of their most recent space achievements. While NASA was closing the gap, it wasn't until Apollo 8 that the US clearly assumed the lead in the space race.
$endgroup$
– Anthony X
Jul 23 at 2:52
add a comment |
7
$begingroup$
To add to your answer, additional pressure to assume the risk came from reports out of Russia of their most recent space achievements. While NASA was closing the gap, it wasn't until Apollo 8 that the US clearly assumed the lead in the space race.
$endgroup$
– Anthony X
Jul 23 at 2:52
7
7
$begingroup$
To add to your answer, additional pressure to assume the risk came from reports out of Russia of their most recent space achievements. While NASA was closing the gap, it wasn't until Apollo 8 that the US clearly assumed the lead in the space race.
$endgroup$
– Anthony X
Jul 23 at 2:52
$begingroup$
To add to your answer, additional pressure to assume the risk came from reports out of Russia of their most recent space achievements. While NASA was closing the gap, it wasn't until Apollo 8 that the US clearly assumed the lead in the space race.
$endgroup$
– Anthony X
Jul 23 at 2:52
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As a complete vehicle, it was only the third flight. But the individual components had many previous flights, or weren't involved in the TLI. Let's look at the components from top to bottom.
Launch escape tower. Prior to Apollo 8, this system had 2 launch pad abort tests, 4 flight abort tests on the Little Joe II rocket, and 2 abort tests on Saturn I flights. Suffice to say, confidence in the escape tower was high. By the time of the TLI, it would have been jettisoned.
Command module. There were 5 unmanned flights of the Block I version of the CM. Many of the modifications between Block I and Block II version weren't much of a risk. Regardless, they passed qualification testing and were used on Apollo 7 without issues. This included
- a new hatch to address the Apollo I fire. This was a considerable risk, but had also been thoroughly tested.
- a docking mechanism to dock with the lunar module. This wouldn't even be used until Apollo 9.
- the outer surface was aluminized Kapton, instead of painted white.
- the covers of the scimitar antennas were proven unnecessary and were deleted.
- more connections were added to the umbilical.
- there was a slight rearrangement of the RCS engines.
- the flight computer was hardwired rather than plug-in, which actually improved reliability.
Service module. If something happened during TLI, this had the engine that would get the astronauts home. Like the CM, there were 5 unmanned Block I flights and the manned Apollo 7 Block II flight. Major differences between Block I and Block II:
- some changes in tank geometries.
- relocation of some fuel cells and their tanks.
- radiator panels were moved to different sectors.
- different paint job.
However, this was the first flight with a high-gain (dish) antenna. The omnidirectional antenna had been used on previous flights and could be used as a backup.
Lunar module. A non-functional test article (LTA-B) was present on Apollo 8 to simulate its weight, center of mass, and structure. A full-fledged LM wouldn't be necessary until Apollo 9, and one had been tested in Earth orbit anyway on the unmanned Apollo 5 flight.
Saturn-Apollo adapter. This is conical part that covers the LM. Previously flown on Apollo 4 and 6, so Apollo 8 was its third mission. Not really an issue until Apollo 9 practiced docking and extraction.
Instrument unit. This controls the Saturn V stages. There were 13 launches before Apollo 8.
Saturn S-IVB third stage. This was the stage that actually did the TLI, but it had a successful history. Flew 4 unmanned missions as a Saturn IB second stage, 1 manned mission (Apollo 7) as a Saturn IB second stage, and 2 unmanned missions as a Saturn V third stage.
Saturn S-II second stage. Apollo 8 was the third flight. In an emergency, either the launch escape tower or the SM would be used for an abort. Discarded before TLI.
Saturn S-IC first stage. Apollo 8 was the third flight. Failure would result in an abort using the launch escape tower. Discarded before TLI.
So nearly everything (except the high-gain antenna) had at least one previous successful flight.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
@RussellBorogove: Correct, but there was a boilerplate (LTA-B) in its place to simulate its weight and structure. They didn't do any procedures with it, and it was discarded with the third stage. Is my answer unclear about that?
$endgroup$
– DrSheldon
Jul 23 at 13:25
1
$begingroup$
Thanks, I edited that part of the answer.
$endgroup$
– DrSheldon
Jul 23 at 13:59
1
$begingroup$
It would be more accurate to say that the LES had two pad abort tests, three flight abort tests, and an actual abort. A-003 was supposed to be a high-altitude abort test, but when the rocket started to break up in flight, the escape system successfully pulled the boilerplate CM away.
$endgroup$
– Mark
Jul 23 at 21:54
$begingroup$
Good point that the S-IVB had already flown several times on Saturn IBs.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
Jul 24 at 0:50
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As a complete vehicle, it was only the third flight. But the individual components had many previous flights, or weren't involved in the TLI. Let's look at the components from top to bottom.
Launch escape tower. Prior to Apollo 8, this system had 2 launch pad abort tests, 4 flight abort tests on the Little Joe II rocket, and 2 abort tests on Saturn I flights. Suffice to say, confidence in the escape tower was high. By the time of the TLI, it would have been jettisoned.
Command module. There were 5 unmanned flights of the Block I version of the CM. Many of the modifications between Block I and Block II version weren't much of a risk. Regardless, they passed qualification testing and were used on Apollo 7 without issues. This included
- a new hatch to address the Apollo I fire. This was a considerable risk, but had also been thoroughly tested.
- a docking mechanism to dock with the lunar module. This wouldn't even be used until Apollo 9.
- the outer surface was aluminized Kapton, instead of painted white.
- the covers of the scimitar antennas were proven unnecessary and were deleted.
- more connections were added to the umbilical.
- there was a slight rearrangement of the RCS engines.
- the flight computer was hardwired rather than plug-in, which actually improved reliability.
Service module. If something happened during TLI, this had the engine that would get the astronauts home. Like the CM, there were 5 unmanned Block I flights and the manned Apollo 7 Block II flight. Major differences between Block I and Block II:
- some changes in tank geometries.
- relocation of some fuel cells and their tanks.
- radiator panels were moved to different sectors.
- different paint job.
However, this was the first flight with a high-gain (dish) antenna. The omnidirectional antenna had been used on previous flights and could be used as a backup.
Lunar module. A non-functional test article (LTA-B) was present on Apollo 8 to simulate its weight, center of mass, and structure. A full-fledged LM wouldn't be necessary until Apollo 9, and one had been tested in Earth orbit anyway on the unmanned Apollo 5 flight.
Saturn-Apollo adapter. This is conical part that covers the LM. Previously flown on Apollo 4 and 6, so Apollo 8 was its third mission. Not really an issue until Apollo 9 practiced docking and extraction.
Instrument unit. This controls the Saturn V stages. There were 13 launches before Apollo 8.
Saturn S-IVB third stage. This was the stage that actually did the TLI, but it had a successful history. Flew 4 unmanned missions as a Saturn IB second stage, 1 manned mission (Apollo 7) as a Saturn IB second stage, and 2 unmanned missions as a Saturn V third stage.
Saturn S-II second stage. Apollo 8 was the third flight. In an emergency, either the launch escape tower or the SM would be used for an abort. Discarded before TLI.
Saturn S-IC first stage. Apollo 8 was the third flight. Failure would result in an abort using the launch escape tower. Discarded before TLI.
So nearly everything (except the high-gain antenna) had at least one previous successful flight.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
@RussellBorogove: Correct, but there was a boilerplate (LTA-B) in its place to simulate its weight and structure. They didn't do any procedures with it, and it was discarded with the third stage. Is my answer unclear about that?
$endgroup$
– DrSheldon
Jul 23 at 13:25
1
$begingroup$
Thanks, I edited that part of the answer.
$endgroup$
– DrSheldon
Jul 23 at 13:59
1
$begingroup$
It would be more accurate to say that the LES had two pad abort tests, three flight abort tests, and an actual abort. A-003 was supposed to be a high-altitude abort test, but when the rocket started to break up in flight, the escape system successfully pulled the boilerplate CM away.
$endgroup$
– Mark
Jul 23 at 21:54
$begingroup$
Good point that the S-IVB had already flown several times on Saturn IBs.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
Jul 24 at 0:50
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As a complete vehicle, it was only the third flight. But the individual components had many previous flights, or weren't involved in the TLI. Let's look at the components from top to bottom.
Launch escape tower. Prior to Apollo 8, this system had 2 launch pad abort tests, 4 flight abort tests on the Little Joe II rocket, and 2 abort tests on Saturn I flights. Suffice to say, confidence in the escape tower was high. By the time of the TLI, it would have been jettisoned.
Command module. There were 5 unmanned flights of the Block I version of the CM. Many of the modifications between Block I and Block II version weren't much of a risk. Regardless, they passed qualification testing and were used on Apollo 7 without issues. This included
- a new hatch to address the Apollo I fire. This was a considerable risk, but had also been thoroughly tested.
- a docking mechanism to dock with the lunar module. This wouldn't even be used until Apollo 9.
- the outer surface was aluminized Kapton, instead of painted white.
- the covers of the scimitar antennas were proven unnecessary and were deleted.
- more connections were added to the umbilical.
- there was a slight rearrangement of the RCS engines.
- the flight computer was hardwired rather than plug-in, which actually improved reliability.
Service module. If something happened during TLI, this had the engine that would get the astronauts home. Like the CM, there were 5 unmanned Block I flights and the manned Apollo 7 Block II flight. Major differences between Block I and Block II:
- some changes in tank geometries.
- relocation of some fuel cells and their tanks.
- radiator panels were moved to different sectors.
- different paint job.
However, this was the first flight with a high-gain (dish) antenna. The omnidirectional antenna had been used on previous flights and could be used as a backup.
Lunar module. A non-functional test article (LTA-B) was present on Apollo 8 to simulate its weight, center of mass, and structure. A full-fledged LM wouldn't be necessary until Apollo 9, and one had been tested in Earth orbit anyway on the unmanned Apollo 5 flight.
Saturn-Apollo adapter. This is conical part that covers the LM. Previously flown on Apollo 4 and 6, so Apollo 8 was its third mission. Not really an issue until Apollo 9 practiced docking and extraction.
Instrument unit. This controls the Saturn V stages. There were 13 launches before Apollo 8.
Saturn S-IVB third stage. This was the stage that actually did the TLI, but it had a successful history. Flew 4 unmanned missions as a Saturn IB second stage, 1 manned mission (Apollo 7) as a Saturn IB second stage, and 2 unmanned missions as a Saturn V third stage.
Saturn S-II second stage. Apollo 8 was the third flight. In an emergency, either the launch escape tower or the SM would be used for an abort. Discarded before TLI.
Saturn S-IC first stage. Apollo 8 was the third flight. Failure would result in an abort using the launch escape tower. Discarded before TLI.
So nearly everything (except the high-gain antenna) had at least one previous successful flight.
$endgroup$
As a complete vehicle, it was only the third flight. But the individual components had many previous flights, or weren't involved in the TLI. Let's look at the components from top to bottom.
Launch escape tower. Prior to Apollo 8, this system had 2 launch pad abort tests, 4 flight abort tests on the Little Joe II rocket, and 2 abort tests on Saturn I flights. Suffice to say, confidence in the escape tower was high. By the time of the TLI, it would have been jettisoned.
Command module. There were 5 unmanned flights of the Block I version of the CM. Many of the modifications between Block I and Block II version weren't much of a risk. Regardless, they passed qualification testing and were used on Apollo 7 without issues. This included
- a new hatch to address the Apollo I fire. This was a considerable risk, but had also been thoroughly tested.
- a docking mechanism to dock with the lunar module. This wouldn't even be used until Apollo 9.
- the outer surface was aluminized Kapton, instead of painted white.
- the covers of the scimitar antennas were proven unnecessary and were deleted.
- more connections were added to the umbilical.
- there was a slight rearrangement of the RCS engines.
- the flight computer was hardwired rather than plug-in, which actually improved reliability.
Service module. If something happened during TLI, this had the engine that would get the astronauts home. Like the CM, there were 5 unmanned Block I flights and the manned Apollo 7 Block II flight. Major differences between Block I and Block II:
- some changes in tank geometries.
- relocation of some fuel cells and their tanks.
- radiator panels were moved to different sectors.
- different paint job.
However, this was the first flight with a high-gain (dish) antenna. The omnidirectional antenna had been used on previous flights and could be used as a backup.
Lunar module. A non-functional test article (LTA-B) was present on Apollo 8 to simulate its weight, center of mass, and structure. A full-fledged LM wouldn't be necessary until Apollo 9, and one had been tested in Earth orbit anyway on the unmanned Apollo 5 flight.
Saturn-Apollo adapter. This is conical part that covers the LM. Previously flown on Apollo 4 and 6, so Apollo 8 was its third mission. Not really an issue until Apollo 9 practiced docking and extraction.
Instrument unit. This controls the Saturn V stages. There were 13 launches before Apollo 8.
Saturn S-IVB third stage. This was the stage that actually did the TLI, but it had a successful history. Flew 4 unmanned missions as a Saturn IB second stage, 1 manned mission (Apollo 7) as a Saturn IB second stage, and 2 unmanned missions as a Saturn V third stage.
Saturn S-II second stage. Apollo 8 was the third flight. In an emergency, either the launch escape tower or the SM would be used for an abort. Discarded before TLI.
Saturn S-IC first stage. Apollo 8 was the third flight. Failure would result in an abort using the launch escape tower. Discarded before TLI.
So nearly everything (except the high-gain antenna) had at least one previous successful flight.
edited Jul 23 at 13:58
answered Jul 23 at 4:51
DrSheldonDrSheldon
12.7k4 gold badges48 silver badges113 bronze badges
12.7k4 gold badges48 silver badges113 bronze badges
$begingroup$
@RussellBorogove: Correct, but there was a boilerplate (LTA-B) in its place to simulate its weight and structure. They didn't do any procedures with it, and it was discarded with the third stage. Is my answer unclear about that?
$endgroup$
– DrSheldon
Jul 23 at 13:25
1
$begingroup$
Thanks, I edited that part of the answer.
$endgroup$
– DrSheldon
Jul 23 at 13:59
1
$begingroup$
It would be more accurate to say that the LES had two pad abort tests, three flight abort tests, and an actual abort. A-003 was supposed to be a high-altitude abort test, but when the rocket started to break up in flight, the escape system successfully pulled the boilerplate CM away.
$endgroup$
– Mark
Jul 23 at 21:54
$begingroup$
Good point that the S-IVB had already flown several times on Saturn IBs.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
Jul 24 at 0:50
add a comment |
$begingroup$
@RussellBorogove: Correct, but there was a boilerplate (LTA-B) in its place to simulate its weight and structure. They didn't do any procedures with it, and it was discarded with the third stage. Is my answer unclear about that?
$endgroup$
– DrSheldon
Jul 23 at 13:25
1
$begingroup$
Thanks, I edited that part of the answer.
$endgroup$
– DrSheldon
Jul 23 at 13:59
1
$begingroup$
It would be more accurate to say that the LES had two pad abort tests, three flight abort tests, and an actual abort. A-003 was supposed to be a high-altitude abort test, but when the rocket started to break up in flight, the escape system successfully pulled the boilerplate CM away.
$endgroup$
– Mark
Jul 23 at 21:54
$begingroup$
Good point that the S-IVB had already flown several times on Saturn IBs.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
Jul 24 at 0:50
$begingroup$
@RussellBorogove: Correct, but there was a boilerplate (LTA-B) in its place to simulate its weight and structure. They didn't do any procedures with it, and it was discarded with the third stage. Is my answer unclear about that?
$endgroup$
– DrSheldon
Jul 23 at 13:25
$begingroup$
@RussellBorogove: Correct, but there was a boilerplate (LTA-B) in its place to simulate its weight and structure. They didn't do any procedures with it, and it was discarded with the third stage. Is my answer unclear about that?
$endgroup$
– DrSheldon
Jul 23 at 13:25
1
1
$begingroup$
Thanks, I edited that part of the answer.
$endgroup$
– DrSheldon
Jul 23 at 13:59
$begingroup$
Thanks, I edited that part of the answer.
$endgroup$
– DrSheldon
Jul 23 at 13:59
1
1
$begingroup$
It would be more accurate to say that the LES had two pad abort tests, three flight abort tests, and an actual abort. A-003 was supposed to be a high-altitude abort test, but when the rocket started to break up in flight, the escape system successfully pulled the boilerplate CM away.
$endgroup$
– Mark
Jul 23 at 21:54
$begingroup$
It would be more accurate to say that the LES had two pad abort tests, three flight abort tests, and an actual abort. A-003 was supposed to be a high-altitude abort test, but when the rocket started to break up in flight, the escape system successfully pulled the boilerplate CM away.
$endgroup$
– Mark
Jul 23 at 21:54
$begingroup$
Good point that the S-IVB had already flown several times on Saturn IBs.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
Jul 24 at 0:50
$begingroup$
Good point that the S-IVB had already flown several times on Saturn IBs.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
Jul 24 at 0:50
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Space Exploration Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fspace.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f37595%2fwhat-gave-nasa-the-confidence-for-a-translunar-injection-in-apollo-8%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
5
$begingroup$
Closely related: Why was the Saturn V considered to be human rated after Apollo 6
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
Jul 23 at 1:26