Intern got a job offer for same salary than a long term team member [duplicate]How should I properly approach my boss if I'm feeling underpaid?Can a newer hire with less skills be paid higher than meWhats the appropriate time to wait after one has been rewarded/gifted to ask for a raise?Is it rude to ask a coworker about their starting salaryIs it unethical for my employer to ask for free copies of my companies software?I got a higher-salary job offer, but I'd like to stayNegotiating salary as undergraduateTips for salary negotiationGot lower offer than initially negotiated. Should I refuse?Reasons for a company to offer a lower salary than the standard, without improving their benefits?Should I be earning a new job title or a raise for training an intern?Large Company asking for personal information prior to salary offer

Was it really necessary for the Lunar Module to have 2 stages?

Does jamais mean always or never in this context?

Has any spacecraft ever had the ability to directly communicate with civilian air traffic control?

A question regarding using the definite article

How to creep the reader out with what seems like a normal person?

Find the coordinate of two line segments that are perpendicular

Phrase for the opposite of "foolproof"

Where did the extra Pym particles come from in Endgame?

Will tsunami waves travel forever if there was no land?

Multiple options for Pseudonyms

Did Henry V’s archers at Agincourt fight with no pants / breeches on because of dysentery?

Is it possible to measure lightning discharges as Nikola Tesla?

What's the metal clinking sound at the end of credits in Avengers: Endgame?

Why do computer-science majors learn calculus?

How can I get precisely a certain cubic cm by changing the following factors?

What is a Recurrent Neural Network?

Why is current rating for multicore cable lower than single core with the same cross section?

Are some sounds more pleasing to the ear, like ㄴ and ㅁ?

How can Republicans who favour free markets, consistently express anger when they don't like the outcome of that choice?

Binary Numbers Magic Trick

What does "rf" mean in "rfkill"?

Does a creature that is immune to a condition still make a saving throw?

Were there two appearances of Stan Lee?

Any examples of headwear for races with animal ears?



Intern got a job offer for same salary than a long term team member [duplicate]


How should I properly approach my boss if I'm feeling underpaid?Can a newer hire with less skills be paid higher than meWhats the appropriate time to wait after one has been rewarded/gifted to ask for a raise?Is it rude to ask a coworker about their starting salaryIs it unethical for my employer to ask for free copies of my companies software?I got a higher-salary job offer, but I'd like to stayNegotiating salary as undergraduateTips for salary negotiationGot lower offer than initially negotiated. Should I refuse?Reasons for a company to offer a lower salary than the standard, without improving their benefits?Should I be earning a new job title or a raise for training an intern?Large Company asking for personal information prior to salary offer






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








27
















This question already has an answer here:



  • How should I properly approach my boss if I'm feeling underpaid?

    8 answers



I work as a software dev at a small marketing company in the Netherlands. I have been working here for 5 years and really enjoy my job. We are going to hire a new software dev, an old intern that has been working here next to the school for the last 2 years. I will manage his projects and review his work.



This intern is also a friend of mine outside of work. When we were at a party together he was excited about the full-time job offer. And while we talked about it he mentioned what his pay was going to be. Which is exactly the same as mine.



This was some weeks ago. But it is bothering me a bit. Not that I want more salary per se. But that the interns 2 years of part-time experience are apparently worth the same as my 5 years of full-time experience.



While my manager did mention he put in a high offer for the intern to stay, because he does do a very good job, he did not call an actual amount. So I don't think I should know that the salary is the same.



Is there any way I could take this up with my manager? Can I mention anything about the interns pay?



Another issue is that about 4 months ago I got a significant raise (about 20%). But only after showing certain skills and achieving certain goals. But the new colleague is offered the same amount directly. So that makes me feel underappreciated for my achievements. Because the "reward" so to say is given freely to new people.










share|improve this question















marked as duplicate by gnat, Philipp, IDrinkandIKnowThings, BSMP, yoozer8 Apr 25 at 18:32


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.


















  • @gnat the question you linked is sort of similar. But there is now answer on how to handle the fact that I know the interns pay.

    – ShingalaDash
    Apr 25 at 8:20











  • I would have answered, but given that my last answer on the same premise is not liked by the community, I'd refrain. :)

    – Sourav Ghosh
    Apr 25 at 8:35






  • 1





    @gnasher729 I wasn't trying to be disrespectful. Just having a hard time to make clear who I'm talking about without giving names.

    – ShingalaDash
    Apr 25 at 8:59






  • 1





    @Fattie They're not an intern anymore. They're a full-time permanent employee that used to be an intern.

    – Carl Kevinson
    Apr 25 at 15:37






  • 1





    Could you provide some additional information about the types of raises you have received? You mentioned 20% four months ago - is that the only raise in the five years, or have you received multiple raises, the most recent of which was 20%?

    – Rob P.
    Apr 25 at 15:37

















27
















This question already has an answer here:



  • How should I properly approach my boss if I'm feeling underpaid?

    8 answers



I work as a software dev at a small marketing company in the Netherlands. I have been working here for 5 years and really enjoy my job. We are going to hire a new software dev, an old intern that has been working here next to the school for the last 2 years. I will manage his projects and review his work.



This intern is also a friend of mine outside of work. When we were at a party together he was excited about the full-time job offer. And while we talked about it he mentioned what his pay was going to be. Which is exactly the same as mine.



This was some weeks ago. But it is bothering me a bit. Not that I want more salary per se. But that the interns 2 years of part-time experience are apparently worth the same as my 5 years of full-time experience.



While my manager did mention he put in a high offer for the intern to stay, because he does do a very good job, he did not call an actual amount. So I don't think I should know that the salary is the same.



Is there any way I could take this up with my manager? Can I mention anything about the interns pay?



Another issue is that about 4 months ago I got a significant raise (about 20%). But only after showing certain skills and achieving certain goals. But the new colleague is offered the same amount directly. So that makes me feel underappreciated for my achievements. Because the "reward" so to say is given freely to new people.










share|improve this question















marked as duplicate by gnat, Philipp, IDrinkandIKnowThings, BSMP, yoozer8 Apr 25 at 18:32


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.


















  • @gnat the question you linked is sort of similar. But there is now answer on how to handle the fact that I know the interns pay.

    – ShingalaDash
    Apr 25 at 8:20











  • I would have answered, but given that my last answer on the same premise is not liked by the community, I'd refrain. :)

    – Sourav Ghosh
    Apr 25 at 8:35






  • 1





    @gnasher729 I wasn't trying to be disrespectful. Just having a hard time to make clear who I'm talking about without giving names.

    – ShingalaDash
    Apr 25 at 8:59






  • 1





    @Fattie They're not an intern anymore. They're a full-time permanent employee that used to be an intern.

    – Carl Kevinson
    Apr 25 at 15:37






  • 1





    Could you provide some additional information about the types of raises you have received? You mentioned 20% four months ago - is that the only raise in the five years, or have you received multiple raises, the most recent of which was 20%?

    – Rob P.
    Apr 25 at 15:37













27












27








27


3







This question already has an answer here:



  • How should I properly approach my boss if I'm feeling underpaid?

    8 answers



I work as a software dev at a small marketing company in the Netherlands. I have been working here for 5 years and really enjoy my job. We are going to hire a new software dev, an old intern that has been working here next to the school for the last 2 years. I will manage his projects and review his work.



This intern is also a friend of mine outside of work. When we were at a party together he was excited about the full-time job offer. And while we talked about it he mentioned what his pay was going to be. Which is exactly the same as mine.



This was some weeks ago. But it is bothering me a bit. Not that I want more salary per se. But that the interns 2 years of part-time experience are apparently worth the same as my 5 years of full-time experience.



While my manager did mention he put in a high offer for the intern to stay, because he does do a very good job, he did not call an actual amount. So I don't think I should know that the salary is the same.



Is there any way I could take this up with my manager? Can I mention anything about the interns pay?



Another issue is that about 4 months ago I got a significant raise (about 20%). But only after showing certain skills and achieving certain goals. But the new colleague is offered the same amount directly. So that makes me feel underappreciated for my achievements. Because the "reward" so to say is given freely to new people.










share|improve this question

















This question already has an answer here:



  • How should I properly approach my boss if I'm feeling underpaid?

    8 answers



I work as a software dev at a small marketing company in the Netherlands. I have been working here for 5 years and really enjoy my job. We are going to hire a new software dev, an old intern that has been working here next to the school for the last 2 years. I will manage his projects and review his work.



This intern is also a friend of mine outside of work. When we were at a party together he was excited about the full-time job offer. And while we talked about it he mentioned what his pay was going to be. Which is exactly the same as mine.



This was some weeks ago. But it is bothering me a bit. Not that I want more salary per se. But that the interns 2 years of part-time experience are apparently worth the same as my 5 years of full-time experience.



While my manager did mention he put in a high offer for the intern to stay, because he does do a very good job, he did not call an actual amount. So I don't think I should know that the salary is the same.



Is there any way I could take this up with my manager? Can I mention anything about the interns pay?



Another issue is that about 4 months ago I got a significant raise (about 20%). But only after showing certain skills and achieving certain goals. But the new colleague is offered the same amount directly. So that makes me feel underappreciated for my achievements. Because the "reward" so to say is given freely to new people.





This question already has an answer here:



  • How should I properly approach my boss if I'm feeling underpaid?

    8 answers







salary ethics raise






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Apr 25 at 14:52









Player One

2,0041816




2,0041816










asked Apr 25 at 8:08









ShingalaDashShingalaDash

15727




15727




marked as duplicate by gnat, Philipp, IDrinkandIKnowThings, BSMP, yoozer8 Apr 25 at 18:32


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.









marked as duplicate by gnat, Philipp, IDrinkandIKnowThings, BSMP, yoozer8 Apr 25 at 18:32


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.














  • @gnat the question you linked is sort of similar. But there is now answer on how to handle the fact that I know the interns pay.

    – ShingalaDash
    Apr 25 at 8:20











  • I would have answered, but given that my last answer on the same premise is not liked by the community, I'd refrain. :)

    – Sourav Ghosh
    Apr 25 at 8:35






  • 1





    @gnasher729 I wasn't trying to be disrespectful. Just having a hard time to make clear who I'm talking about without giving names.

    – ShingalaDash
    Apr 25 at 8:59






  • 1





    @Fattie They're not an intern anymore. They're a full-time permanent employee that used to be an intern.

    – Carl Kevinson
    Apr 25 at 15:37






  • 1





    Could you provide some additional information about the types of raises you have received? You mentioned 20% four months ago - is that the only raise in the five years, or have you received multiple raises, the most recent of which was 20%?

    – Rob P.
    Apr 25 at 15:37

















  • @gnat the question you linked is sort of similar. But there is now answer on how to handle the fact that I know the interns pay.

    – ShingalaDash
    Apr 25 at 8:20











  • I would have answered, but given that my last answer on the same premise is not liked by the community, I'd refrain. :)

    – Sourav Ghosh
    Apr 25 at 8:35






  • 1





    @gnasher729 I wasn't trying to be disrespectful. Just having a hard time to make clear who I'm talking about without giving names.

    – ShingalaDash
    Apr 25 at 8:59






  • 1





    @Fattie They're not an intern anymore. They're a full-time permanent employee that used to be an intern.

    – Carl Kevinson
    Apr 25 at 15:37






  • 1





    Could you provide some additional information about the types of raises you have received? You mentioned 20% four months ago - is that the only raise in the five years, or have you received multiple raises, the most recent of which was 20%?

    – Rob P.
    Apr 25 at 15:37
















@gnat the question you linked is sort of similar. But there is now answer on how to handle the fact that I know the interns pay.

– ShingalaDash
Apr 25 at 8:20





@gnat the question you linked is sort of similar. But there is now answer on how to handle the fact that I know the interns pay.

– ShingalaDash
Apr 25 at 8:20













I would have answered, but given that my last answer on the same premise is not liked by the community, I'd refrain. :)

– Sourav Ghosh
Apr 25 at 8:35





I would have answered, but given that my last answer on the same premise is not liked by the community, I'd refrain. :)

– Sourav Ghosh
Apr 25 at 8:35




1




1





@gnasher729 I wasn't trying to be disrespectful. Just having a hard time to make clear who I'm talking about without giving names.

– ShingalaDash
Apr 25 at 8:59





@gnasher729 I wasn't trying to be disrespectful. Just having a hard time to make clear who I'm talking about without giving names.

– ShingalaDash
Apr 25 at 8:59




1




1





@Fattie They're not an intern anymore. They're a full-time permanent employee that used to be an intern.

– Carl Kevinson
Apr 25 at 15:37





@Fattie They're not an intern anymore. They're a full-time permanent employee that used to be an intern.

– Carl Kevinson
Apr 25 at 15:37




1




1





Could you provide some additional information about the types of raises you have received? You mentioned 20% four months ago - is that the only raise in the five years, or have you received multiple raises, the most recent of which was 20%?

– Rob P.
Apr 25 at 15:37





Could you provide some additional information about the types of raises you have received? You mentioned 20% four months ago - is that the only raise in the five years, or have you received multiple raises, the most recent of which was 20%?

– Rob P.
Apr 25 at 15:37










6 Answers
6






active

oldest

votes


















53














Since you say you don't want more salary yourself I'll start by addressing the question at the end of your post.




Can I mention anything about the interns pay?




Treat your knowledge of your colleague's salary the same way you would treat any other confidential knowledge: don't disclose it and don't discuss that you know it. That information belongs to your colleague. It's not yours to share.




But it is bothering me a bit. Not that I want more salary per se. But that the interns 2 years of part time experience are apparently worth the same as my 5 years of full time experience.




It sounds like you feel that your five years of experience should be worth more than your new colleague's two years (which in my opinion is fair enough).



I'd suggest you challenge your thinking around this: instead of thinking they should earn less because you're satisfied with what you earn, start thinking that you deserve more: you're worth more than you were 5 years ago. You can manage projects and review other people's work now. There are other questions on the site about how to approach a situation where you feel underpaid.






share|improve this answer




















  • 34





    Please note that salary is personal and not confidential information. I could share my salary with whoever I want and it's illegal for the company to punish me for doing so.

    – Adrian Sicaru
    Apr 25 at 12:55






  • 5





    This is precisely correct. OP, you must - must - drastically increase your salary in the immediate term.

    – Fattie
    Apr 25 at 13:17






  • 6





    The thing with asking for a raise is that I just received a significant (20%) raise 4 months ago. Which felt like a lot of appreciation. But a new employee gets it when they start. Effectively canceling out the feeling of appreciation.

    – ShingalaDash
    Apr 25 at 13:43






  • 7





    @PatrickNijhuis that sounds really frustrating. Have you investigated the salaries for someone with your level of experience in the area you live?

    – Player One
    Apr 25 at 13:51






  • 9





    @PatrickNijhuis Consider sending CV and going to interviews. Not necessarily to get a new job, but to see what is your actual worth on the job market. And who knows, maybe you'll get an amazing offer you will want to take?

    – Mołot
    Apr 25 at 14:17


















20














Salary levels for new hires increase with time, while your existing salary does not, until you get a raise - but that is completely unrelated to the intern's salary offer. If you received an offer of 3000 five years ago, you might receive 3500 with the same CV and experience today.



It doesn't make sense, but that's how it is in reality. Which is why many people change jobs fairly regularly nowadays. It is purely to keep your own salary at market level. Even with regular average raises, you would likely fall behind market levels.






share|improve this answer


















  • 10





    Which is why it pays to regularly "test the market", polish up your cv and talk to a recruiter. Every 6-12 months. If nothing else to ensure you're getting what the market pays. If you're far below... get another job offer. Then at least you have a second offer or a bargaining chip to get another raise at present employer. Good luck OP!

    – vikingsteve
    Apr 25 at 12:59






  • 1





    @vikingsteve this - so much this, especially in software. I spent 4 years at the first place I worked, my salary went up by about 8%. Over the next 5 years I changed jobs three times, and I'm now paid twice what I had been making.

    – David Rice
    Apr 25 at 18:37






  • 1





    Not to boast, but I got a 30% payrise by changing jobs last year. This was after "fighting" for 2.5% payrise the year before. Even though they can be annoying, it's worth to talk to a recruiter every now and again.

    – vikingsteve
    Apr 25 at 22:02












  • @vikingsteve Sounds about the same for me. I've doubled my salary in 8 years - well, technically 3 years, since my salary was the same for the first 4 years. +8% after a promotion 4 years into my first job, then +36 % in my first job change, +7 % from the second (learning a new stack), +6 % from a raise, and finally +23 % from the latest job change. So the majority came in a timespan of 3 years.

    – Juha Untinen
    2 days ago



















11














This is normal. New hires wouldn't work if it wasn't. You're not paid based on experience. You're paid based on how much you'll stay at work for. If you want to earn more money, you'll have to job hop. That's pretty standard too.



Should you mention the interns salary? Yes. 100% bring it up. Glass door exists so it's not like you don't know how much people in your company are being paid. If your boss, or whoever is in charge of your salary, thinks that you won't leave or, if they think they can easily replace you, or if there isn't money they won't give you a raise. That's how salary works.



So here's what you do about it. You clearly communicate that it's going to take more money to get you to stay. What this does is let who ever is in charge of your salary know that you aren't complacent.



Whoever the person who is in charge of your salary is, your salaryman, will have essentially 3 decisions to make. The first decision is weather or not to believe you. Statistically speaking, in most fields you won't leave. It's likely that you're just putting up a front for more money. So this leads to two places. The first is just not to believe you and play chicken with your salary. If your salaryman is right, you'll stay put, keep making noise, eventually fizzle out, and choose to work for what is essentially your current price.



Your salaryman can also choose to believe you. This leads to the other two decisions. The first one of these decisions, the second decision overall, is weather you're worth more money. The fact is that if you didn't make your company more money than you cost, you wouldn't be hired. That's fairly difficult to actually measure, so most of the time that point just boils down to your company thinking you make them more than you cost. This guessing game is essentially why reputation matters. If companies think you make them a mountain's weight in money, they'll pay you a maybe 40 metric tons of cash. If the your salaryman doesn't think you're worth the extra money, then he'll play chicken with your salary again. Similarly, if the salaryman thinks he can replace you easily when you quit, he won't care if you walk. In this situation, the only way for you to get a raise is charity; you're probably not getting a raise.



If your salaryman does think you're worth the money, then there's one more decision to make. Can the company afford to pay this employee more? Sometimes the answer is no and the salaryman has no choice but to play chicken with your salary and just hope you won't move on. Often it's yes. This is one of the points at which you get a raise.



The other way you get a raise is by winning the game of chicken; convince your company you're going to leave in such a way that they believe you and are motivated to make sure you stay, without actually leaving.



Kind of a rip off if you ask me.






share|improve this answer

























  • The first part of this answer is incongruous with the second. You are correct that you're paid whatever you'll stay at work for, but that has nothing to do with what other people will stay at work for. The intern's salary might be a signal that the OP is being underpaid, but it's not a compelling reason for management to give the OP a raise.

    – Nuclear Wang
    Apr 25 at 17:08






  • 1





    @NuclearWang I'll edit and add more detail. The short of it is, that if OP wants more money, then OP will have to effectively communicate that their current salary is not enough for them to stay at their current company.

    – Steve
    Apr 25 at 17:30











  • @NuclearWang I added those edits. Hopefully this sheds some light on the matter

    – Steve
    Apr 25 at 21:32


















2














Employers want employees with skills. Experience is a proxy for skills, not a something that's valuable in and of itself. Apparently, your employer is satisfied that the new hire has the skills to provide the same value that you do, and has had the opportunity to directly evaluate his skills, rather than use proxies such as experience. It's up to your employer, not you, to decide how much value each employee is bringing. If you're both in similar roles providing similar work, they may see little reason to pay you more simply because you have more experience, just as they may see little reason to pay someone more simply because they have a master's and the other employees only have a bachelor's.






share|improve this answer























  • It does sound like the OP is going to be in a senior position over the former intern.

    – aherocalledFrog
    Apr 25 at 18:57


















2














I agree with most of the answers here, since they all could be correct - depending on the exact context.



However, a slightly different perspective to consider is that this new hire may be atypical - s/he may be above average - and that you can't directly compare this person's salary to either your salary or the average new hire's.




  1. "Years of experience" may not be worth as much as you think. As another answer mentions, years of experience is often just a proxy for skill. In Code Complete, Steve McConnell explicitly addresses this in a section Characteristics That Don't Matter As Much As You Might Think :




    The bottom line on experience is this: if you work for 10 years, do
    you get 10 years of experience or do you get 1 year of experience 10
    times?




    The same experience repeated 10x may not be as valuable as 10x as much experience and the corresponding skills.



    Professional athletes, movie stars, et cetera are not paid based on their years of experience. Likewise, software development isn't really about years of experience, but skills and knowledge. And skills and knowledge don't necessarily correlate to years of experience - to quote McConnell again:




    You have to reflect on your activities to get true experience. If you
    make learning a continuous commitment, you'll get experience. If you
    don't, you won't, no matter how many years you have under your belt.




  2. You also state that you feel your achievements are underappreciated despite a recent raise "Because the "reward" so to say is given freely to new people." Was it freely given? Or does this new hire already possess significant skills and thus has earned the reward? It's unclear whether the new hire possesses the skills you were rewarded for, or perhaps has other skills. Also keep in mind that some skills are valued more highly than others - and this new hire may have them.


  3. Finally, is the salary a typical new hire rate (for intern with this experience) or is this person exceptional and thus the starting salary is also an exception? An above average starting programmer getting an above average starting salary wouldn't be unfair.


Just something to consider which may apply in this case, and would certainly apply in some other cases - basically, that this new hire may be an exceptional case and their salary may likewise be an exception.



As others have suggested, a bit of market research - including checking out some other opportunities - may help you find out what typical starting salaries are, and also what salary your skills and experience can command. Perhaps you'll learn you're undervalued, or you may find your salary is average or better than average.



Edit: I note that while typing this, @Accumulation has also addressed this general theme.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




Colin K is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




















  • hi and welcome to the Workplace. Could you articulate your point? Right now it looks more like several rhetorical questions, but OP might have trouble reading through them

    – aaaaaa
    Apr 25 at 18:23











  • Thanks. I reworked things to try to make the point more explicit that years of experience does not necessarily equate to practical experience. There is no way to avoid some rhetorical sounding questions, unfortunately, since we're discussing a new hire in the abstract because we don't actually know the individual new hire and his/her skills at all. Thus, there are several questions for the OP, or future "long term team members", to ask themselves when comparing their value to others.

    – Colin K
    2 days ago



















-3














Just say them you've got an offer twice your current salary. Eve if they raised yours recently, this makes you feel like you are seriously underpaid. They know they can pay it to you and they won't want to lose you over that. You'll get it.



UPD: The reasoning behind this advice is that if they are so eager to hire and overpay new employee without any actual experience on the job, with months ahead to fill, with no actual achievements, they have to be crazy to not try to at least bargain. What they doing with OP is a very regular thing actually. They negging him because he falls for it and allows them to pay less - so they do save a lot of money, while actually having the resources to give him a decent pay.



For them it's not even about money, they just feel they will look weak if they give you a raise without a reason. So they making shit up, like you have to show and achieve, to milk you for the value. Some stuff they learn at the management classes. To them, we are units, you can rarely expect humane treatment until you yourself understand that you deserve it.



Some people say you can get fired over this bluff. I give it zero chance, but think of this. You are already unhappy. You are already being treated unfairly, and every day you work there you will feel it, think about it, until you either restore the balance or quit. Learning truth is often unsettling and has consequences. Decide how you want to handle the situation because otherwise it's you who being handled.



Even if you lose your job (which can only happen either if you quit or allow your temper to get the better of you), you can always find a better one, where you will be at better position with all the experience behind your back, and can actually get better offer.



If you are strongly against the bluff, just get an offer for real. Update your LinkedIn and go to the couple of the interviews. See what options you have for the worst case scenario. I'm sure you'll be surprised.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




Ashton Catchem is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.















  • 4





    This is a risky tactic if they call your bluff.

    – GrandMasterFlush
    Apr 25 at 15:09






  • 2





    hi Ashton and welcome to Workplace. In general, this community advise not to lie intentionally. Also "they won't want to lose you over that" is an assumption. Could you expand your answer to help OP hedge their bet? basically, give advice how no to get fired if they follow your suggestion

    – aaaaaa
    Apr 25 at 16:50











  • Terrible advice. The company is very likely to say 'great, enjoy your new job'.

    – 17 of 26
    Apr 25 at 17:05











  • If company easily says that to the lead they are going down pretty soon anyway.

    – Ashton Catchem
    Apr 25 at 20:18

















6 Answers
6






active

oldest

votes








6 Answers
6






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









53














Since you say you don't want more salary yourself I'll start by addressing the question at the end of your post.




Can I mention anything about the interns pay?




Treat your knowledge of your colleague's salary the same way you would treat any other confidential knowledge: don't disclose it and don't discuss that you know it. That information belongs to your colleague. It's not yours to share.




But it is bothering me a bit. Not that I want more salary per se. But that the interns 2 years of part time experience are apparently worth the same as my 5 years of full time experience.




It sounds like you feel that your five years of experience should be worth more than your new colleague's two years (which in my opinion is fair enough).



I'd suggest you challenge your thinking around this: instead of thinking they should earn less because you're satisfied with what you earn, start thinking that you deserve more: you're worth more than you were 5 years ago. You can manage projects and review other people's work now. There are other questions on the site about how to approach a situation where you feel underpaid.






share|improve this answer




















  • 34





    Please note that salary is personal and not confidential information. I could share my salary with whoever I want and it's illegal for the company to punish me for doing so.

    – Adrian Sicaru
    Apr 25 at 12:55






  • 5





    This is precisely correct. OP, you must - must - drastically increase your salary in the immediate term.

    – Fattie
    Apr 25 at 13:17






  • 6





    The thing with asking for a raise is that I just received a significant (20%) raise 4 months ago. Which felt like a lot of appreciation. But a new employee gets it when they start. Effectively canceling out the feeling of appreciation.

    – ShingalaDash
    Apr 25 at 13:43






  • 7





    @PatrickNijhuis that sounds really frustrating. Have you investigated the salaries for someone with your level of experience in the area you live?

    – Player One
    Apr 25 at 13:51






  • 9





    @PatrickNijhuis Consider sending CV and going to interviews. Not necessarily to get a new job, but to see what is your actual worth on the job market. And who knows, maybe you'll get an amazing offer you will want to take?

    – Mołot
    Apr 25 at 14:17















53














Since you say you don't want more salary yourself I'll start by addressing the question at the end of your post.




Can I mention anything about the interns pay?




Treat your knowledge of your colleague's salary the same way you would treat any other confidential knowledge: don't disclose it and don't discuss that you know it. That information belongs to your colleague. It's not yours to share.




But it is bothering me a bit. Not that I want more salary per se. But that the interns 2 years of part time experience are apparently worth the same as my 5 years of full time experience.




It sounds like you feel that your five years of experience should be worth more than your new colleague's two years (which in my opinion is fair enough).



I'd suggest you challenge your thinking around this: instead of thinking they should earn less because you're satisfied with what you earn, start thinking that you deserve more: you're worth more than you were 5 years ago. You can manage projects and review other people's work now. There are other questions on the site about how to approach a situation where you feel underpaid.






share|improve this answer




















  • 34





    Please note that salary is personal and not confidential information. I could share my salary with whoever I want and it's illegal for the company to punish me for doing so.

    – Adrian Sicaru
    Apr 25 at 12:55






  • 5





    This is precisely correct. OP, you must - must - drastically increase your salary in the immediate term.

    – Fattie
    Apr 25 at 13:17






  • 6





    The thing with asking for a raise is that I just received a significant (20%) raise 4 months ago. Which felt like a lot of appreciation. But a new employee gets it when they start. Effectively canceling out the feeling of appreciation.

    – ShingalaDash
    Apr 25 at 13:43






  • 7





    @PatrickNijhuis that sounds really frustrating. Have you investigated the salaries for someone with your level of experience in the area you live?

    – Player One
    Apr 25 at 13:51






  • 9





    @PatrickNijhuis Consider sending CV and going to interviews. Not necessarily to get a new job, but to see what is your actual worth on the job market. And who knows, maybe you'll get an amazing offer you will want to take?

    – Mołot
    Apr 25 at 14:17













53












53








53







Since you say you don't want more salary yourself I'll start by addressing the question at the end of your post.




Can I mention anything about the interns pay?




Treat your knowledge of your colleague's salary the same way you would treat any other confidential knowledge: don't disclose it and don't discuss that you know it. That information belongs to your colleague. It's not yours to share.




But it is bothering me a bit. Not that I want more salary per se. But that the interns 2 years of part time experience are apparently worth the same as my 5 years of full time experience.




It sounds like you feel that your five years of experience should be worth more than your new colleague's two years (which in my opinion is fair enough).



I'd suggest you challenge your thinking around this: instead of thinking they should earn less because you're satisfied with what you earn, start thinking that you deserve more: you're worth more than you were 5 years ago. You can manage projects and review other people's work now. There are other questions on the site about how to approach a situation where you feel underpaid.






share|improve this answer















Since you say you don't want more salary yourself I'll start by addressing the question at the end of your post.




Can I mention anything about the interns pay?




Treat your knowledge of your colleague's salary the same way you would treat any other confidential knowledge: don't disclose it and don't discuss that you know it. That information belongs to your colleague. It's not yours to share.




But it is bothering me a bit. Not that I want more salary per se. But that the interns 2 years of part time experience are apparently worth the same as my 5 years of full time experience.




It sounds like you feel that your five years of experience should be worth more than your new colleague's two years (which in my opinion is fair enough).



I'd suggest you challenge your thinking around this: instead of thinking they should earn less because you're satisfied with what you earn, start thinking that you deserve more: you're worth more than you were 5 years ago. You can manage projects and review other people's work now. There are other questions on the site about how to approach a situation where you feel underpaid.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited Apr 25 at 14:47

























answered Apr 25 at 8:39









Player OnePlayer One

2,0041816




2,0041816







  • 34





    Please note that salary is personal and not confidential information. I could share my salary with whoever I want and it's illegal for the company to punish me for doing so.

    – Adrian Sicaru
    Apr 25 at 12:55






  • 5





    This is precisely correct. OP, you must - must - drastically increase your salary in the immediate term.

    – Fattie
    Apr 25 at 13:17






  • 6





    The thing with asking for a raise is that I just received a significant (20%) raise 4 months ago. Which felt like a lot of appreciation. But a new employee gets it when they start. Effectively canceling out the feeling of appreciation.

    – ShingalaDash
    Apr 25 at 13:43






  • 7





    @PatrickNijhuis that sounds really frustrating. Have you investigated the salaries for someone with your level of experience in the area you live?

    – Player One
    Apr 25 at 13:51






  • 9





    @PatrickNijhuis Consider sending CV and going to interviews. Not necessarily to get a new job, but to see what is your actual worth on the job market. And who knows, maybe you'll get an amazing offer you will want to take?

    – Mołot
    Apr 25 at 14:17












  • 34





    Please note that salary is personal and not confidential information. I could share my salary with whoever I want and it's illegal for the company to punish me for doing so.

    – Adrian Sicaru
    Apr 25 at 12:55






  • 5





    This is precisely correct. OP, you must - must - drastically increase your salary in the immediate term.

    – Fattie
    Apr 25 at 13:17






  • 6





    The thing with asking for a raise is that I just received a significant (20%) raise 4 months ago. Which felt like a lot of appreciation. But a new employee gets it when they start. Effectively canceling out the feeling of appreciation.

    – ShingalaDash
    Apr 25 at 13:43






  • 7





    @PatrickNijhuis that sounds really frustrating. Have you investigated the salaries for someone with your level of experience in the area you live?

    – Player One
    Apr 25 at 13:51






  • 9





    @PatrickNijhuis Consider sending CV and going to interviews. Not necessarily to get a new job, but to see what is your actual worth on the job market. And who knows, maybe you'll get an amazing offer you will want to take?

    – Mołot
    Apr 25 at 14:17







34




34





Please note that salary is personal and not confidential information. I could share my salary with whoever I want and it's illegal for the company to punish me for doing so.

– Adrian Sicaru
Apr 25 at 12:55





Please note that salary is personal and not confidential information. I could share my salary with whoever I want and it's illegal for the company to punish me for doing so.

– Adrian Sicaru
Apr 25 at 12:55




5




5





This is precisely correct. OP, you must - must - drastically increase your salary in the immediate term.

– Fattie
Apr 25 at 13:17





This is precisely correct. OP, you must - must - drastically increase your salary in the immediate term.

– Fattie
Apr 25 at 13:17




6




6





The thing with asking for a raise is that I just received a significant (20%) raise 4 months ago. Which felt like a lot of appreciation. But a new employee gets it when they start. Effectively canceling out the feeling of appreciation.

– ShingalaDash
Apr 25 at 13:43





The thing with asking for a raise is that I just received a significant (20%) raise 4 months ago. Which felt like a lot of appreciation. But a new employee gets it when they start. Effectively canceling out the feeling of appreciation.

– ShingalaDash
Apr 25 at 13:43




7




7





@PatrickNijhuis that sounds really frustrating. Have you investigated the salaries for someone with your level of experience in the area you live?

– Player One
Apr 25 at 13:51





@PatrickNijhuis that sounds really frustrating. Have you investigated the salaries for someone with your level of experience in the area you live?

– Player One
Apr 25 at 13:51




9




9





@PatrickNijhuis Consider sending CV and going to interviews. Not necessarily to get a new job, but to see what is your actual worth on the job market. And who knows, maybe you'll get an amazing offer you will want to take?

– Mołot
Apr 25 at 14:17





@PatrickNijhuis Consider sending CV and going to interviews. Not necessarily to get a new job, but to see what is your actual worth on the job market. And who knows, maybe you'll get an amazing offer you will want to take?

– Mołot
Apr 25 at 14:17













20














Salary levels for new hires increase with time, while your existing salary does not, until you get a raise - but that is completely unrelated to the intern's salary offer. If you received an offer of 3000 five years ago, you might receive 3500 with the same CV and experience today.



It doesn't make sense, but that's how it is in reality. Which is why many people change jobs fairly regularly nowadays. It is purely to keep your own salary at market level. Even with regular average raises, you would likely fall behind market levels.






share|improve this answer


















  • 10





    Which is why it pays to regularly "test the market", polish up your cv and talk to a recruiter. Every 6-12 months. If nothing else to ensure you're getting what the market pays. If you're far below... get another job offer. Then at least you have a second offer or a bargaining chip to get another raise at present employer. Good luck OP!

    – vikingsteve
    Apr 25 at 12:59






  • 1





    @vikingsteve this - so much this, especially in software. I spent 4 years at the first place I worked, my salary went up by about 8%. Over the next 5 years I changed jobs three times, and I'm now paid twice what I had been making.

    – David Rice
    Apr 25 at 18:37






  • 1





    Not to boast, but I got a 30% payrise by changing jobs last year. This was after "fighting" for 2.5% payrise the year before. Even though they can be annoying, it's worth to talk to a recruiter every now and again.

    – vikingsteve
    Apr 25 at 22:02












  • @vikingsteve Sounds about the same for me. I've doubled my salary in 8 years - well, technically 3 years, since my salary was the same for the first 4 years. +8% after a promotion 4 years into my first job, then +36 % in my first job change, +7 % from the second (learning a new stack), +6 % from a raise, and finally +23 % from the latest job change. So the majority came in a timespan of 3 years.

    – Juha Untinen
    2 days ago
















20














Salary levels for new hires increase with time, while your existing salary does not, until you get a raise - but that is completely unrelated to the intern's salary offer. If you received an offer of 3000 five years ago, you might receive 3500 with the same CV and experience today.



It doesn't make sense, but that's how it is in reality. Which is why many people change jobs fairly regularly nowadays. It is purely to keep your own salary at market level. Even with regular average raises, you would likely fall behind market levels.






share|improve this answer


















  • 10





    Which is why it pays to regularly "test the market", polish up your cv and talk to a recruiter. Every 6-12 months. If nothing else to ensure you're getting what the market pays. If you're far below... get another job offer. Then at least you have a second offer or a bargaining chip to get another raise at present employer. Good luck OP!

    – vikingsteve
    Apr 25 at 12:59






  • 1





    @vikingsteve this - so much this, especially in software. I spent 4 years at the first place I worked, my salary went up by about 8%. Over the next 5 years I changed jobs three times, and I'm now paid twice what I had been making.

    – David Rice
    Apr 25 at 18:37






  • 1





    Not to boast, but I got a 30% payrise by changing jobs last year. This was after "fighting" for 2.5% payrise the year before. Even though they can be annoying, it's worth to talk to a recruiter every now and again.

    – vikingsteve
    Apr 25 at 22:02












  • @vikingsteve Sounds about the same for me. I've doubled my salary in 8 years - well, technically 3 years, since my salary was the same for the first 4 years. +8% after a promotion 4 years into my first job, then +36 % in my first job change, +7 % from the second (learning a new stack), +6 % from a raise, and finally +23 % from the latest job change. So the majority came in a timespan of 3 years.

    – Juha Untinen
    2 days ago














20












20








20







Salary levels for new hires increase with time, while your existing salary does not, until you get a raise - but that is completely unrelated to the intern's salary offer. If you received an offer of 3000 five years ago, you might receive 3500 with the same CV and experience today.



It doesn't make sense, but that's how it is in reality. Which is why many people change jobs fairly regularly nowadays. It is purely to keep your own salary at market level. Even with regular average raises, you would likely fall behind market levels.






share|improve this answer













Salary levels for new hires increase with time, while your existing salary does not, until you get a raise - but that is completely unrelated to the intern's salary offer. If you received an offer of 3000 five years ago, you might receive 3500 with the same CV and experience today.



It doesn't make sense, but that's how it is in reality. Which is why many people change jobs fairly regularly nowadays. It is purely to keep your own salary at market level. Even with regular average raises, you would likely fall behind market levels.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered Apr 25 at 11:51









Juha UntinenJuha Untinen

2,66611224




2,66611224







  • 10





    Which is why it pays to regularly "test the market", polish up your cv and talk to a recruiter. Every 6-12 months. If nothing else to ensure you're getting what the market pays. If you're far below... get another job offer. Then at least you have a second offer or a bargaining chip to get another raise at present employer. Good luck OP!

    – vikingsteve
    Apr 25 at 12:59






  • 1





    @vikingsteve this - so much this, especially in software. I spent 4 years at the first place I worked, my salary went up by about 8%. Over the next 5 years I changed jobs three times, and I'm now paid twice what I had been making.

    – David Rice
    Apr 25 at 18:37






  • 1





    Not to boast, but I got a 30% payrise by changing jobs last year. This was after "fighting" for 2.5% payrise the year before. Even though they can be annoying, it's worth to talk to a recruiter every now and again.

    – vikingsteve
    Apr 25 at 22:02












  • @vikingsteve Sounds about the same for me. I've doubled my salary in 8 years - well, technically 3 years, since my salary was the same for the first 4 years. +8% after a promotion 4 years into my first job, then +36 % in my first job change, +7 % from the second (learning a new stack), +6 % from a raise, and finally +23 % from the latest job change. So the majority came in a timespan of 3 years.

    – Juha Untinen
    2 days ago













  • 10





    Which is why it pays to regularly "test the market", polish up your cv and talk to a recruiter. Every 6-12 months. If nothing else to ensure you're getting what the market pays. If you're far below... get another job offer. Then at least you have a second offer or a bargaining chip to get another raise at present employer. Good luck OP!

    – vikingsteve
    Apr 25 at 12:59






  • 1





    @vikingsteve this - so much this, especially in software. I spent 4 years at the first place I worked, my salary went up by about 8%. Over the next 5 years I changed jobs three times, and I'm now paid twice what I had been making.

    – David Rice
    Apr 25 at 18:37






  • 1





    Not to boast, but I got a 30% payrise by changing jobs last year. This was after "fighting" for 2.5% payrise the year before. Even though they can be annoying, it's worth to talk to a recruiter every now and again.

    – vikingsteve
    Apr 25 at 22:02












  • @vikingsteve Sounds about the same for me. I've doubled my salary in 8 years - well, technically 3 years, since my salary was the same for the first 4 years. +8% after a promotion 4 years into my first job, then +36 % in my first job change, +7 % from the second (learning a new stack), +6 % from a raise, and finally +23 % from the latest job change. So the majority came in a timespan of 3 years.

    – Juha Untinen
    2 days ago








10




10





Which is why it pays to regularly "test the market", polish up your cv and talk to a recruiter. Every 6-12 months. If nothing else to ensure you're getting what the market pays. If you're far below... get another job offer. Then at least you have a second offer or a bargaining chip to get another raise at present employer. Good luck OP!

– vikingsteve
Apr 25 at 12:59





Which is why it pays to regularly "test the market", polish up your cv and talk to a recruiter. Every 6-12 months. If nothing else to ensure you're getting what the market pays. If you're far below... get another job offer. Then at least you have a second offer or a bargaining chip to get another raise at present employer. Good luck OP!

– vikingsteve
Apr 25 at 12:59




1




1





@vikingsteve this - so much this, especially in software. I spent 4 years at the first place I worked, my salary went up by about 8%. Over the next 5 years I changed jobs three times, and I'm now paid twice what I had been making.

– David Rice
Apr 25 at 18:37





@vikingsteve this - so much this, especially in software. I spent 4 years at the first place I worked, my salary went up by about 8%. Over the next 5 years I changed jobs three times, and I'm now paid twice what I had been making.

– David Rice
Apr 25 at 18:37




1




1





Not to boast, but I got a 30% payrise by changing jobs last year. This was after "fighting" for 2.5% payrise the year before. Even though they can be annoying, it's worth to talk to a recruiter every now and again.

– vikingsteve
Apr 25 at 22:02






Not to boast, but I got a 30% payrise by changing jobs last year. This was after "fighting" for 2.5% payrise the year before. Even though they can be annoying, it's worth to talk to a recruiter every now and again.

– vikingsteve
Apr 25 at 22:02














@vikingsteve Sounds about the same for me. I've doubled my salary in 8 years - well, technically 3 years, since my salary was the same for the first 4 years. +8% after a promotion 4 years into my first job, then +36 % in my first job change, +7 % from the second (learning a new stack), +6 % from a raise, and finally +23 % from the latest job change. So the majority came in a timespan of 3 years.

– Juha Untinen
2 days ago






@vikingsteve Sounds about the same for me. I've doubled my salary in 8 years - well, technically 3 years, since my salary was the same for the first 4 years. +8% after a promotion 4 years into my first job, then +36 % in my first job change, +7 % from the second (learning a new stack), +6 % from a raise, and finally +23 % from the latest job change. So the majority came in a timespan of 3 years.

– Juha Untinen
2 days ago












11














This is normal. New hires wouldn't work if it wasn't. You're not paid based on experience. You're paid based on how much you'll stay at work for. If you want to earn more money, you'll have to job hop. That's pretty standard too.



Should you mention the interns salary? Yes. 100% bring it up. Glass door exists so it's not like you don't know how much people in your company are being paid. If your boss, or whoever is in charge of your salary, thinks that you won't leave or, if they think they can easily replace you, or if there isn't money they won't give you a raise. That's how salary works.



So here's what you do about it. You clearly communicate that it's going to take more money to get you to stay. What this does is let who ever is in charge of your salary know that you aren't complacent.



Whoever the person who is in charge of your salary is, your salaryman, will have essentially 3 decisions to make. The first decision is weather or not to believe you. Statistically speaking, in most fields you won't leave. It's likely that you're just putting up a front for more money. So this leads to two places. The first is just not to believe you and play chicken with your salary. If your salaryman is right, you'll stay put, keep making noise, eventually fizzle out, and choose to work for what is essentially your current price.



Your salaryman can also choose to believe you. This leads to the other two decisions. The first one of these decisions, the second decision overall, is weather you're worth more money. The fact is that if you didn't make your company more money than you cost, you wouldn't be hired. That's fairly difficult to actually measure, so most of the time that point just boils down to your company thinking you make them more than you cost. This guessing game is essentially why reputation matters. If companies think you make them a mountain's weight in money, they'll pay you a maybe 40 metric tons of cash. If the your salaryman doesn't think you're worth the extra money, then he'll play chicken with your salary again. Similarly, if the salaryman thinks he can replace you easily when you quit, he won't care if you walk. In this situation, the only way for you to get a raise is charity; you're probably not getting a raise.



If your salaryman does think you're worth the money, then there's one more decision to make. Can the company afford to pay this employee more? Sometimes the answer is no and the salaryman has no choice but to play chicken with your salary and just hope you won't move on. Often it's yes. This is one of the points at which you get a raise.



The other way you get a raise is by winning the game of chicken; convince your company you're going to leave in such a way that they believe you and are motivated to make sure you stay, without actually leaving.



Kind of a rip off if you ask me.






share|improve this answer

























  • The first part of this answer is incongruous with the second. You are correct that you're paid whatever you'll stay at work for, but that has nothing to do with what other people will stay at work for. The intern's salary might be a signal that the OP is being underpaid, but it's not a compelling reason for management to give the OP a raise.

    – Nuclear Wang
    Apr 25 at 17:08






  • 1





    @NuclearWang I'll edit and add more detail. The short of it is, that if OP wants more money, then OP will have to effectively communicate that their current salary is not enough for them to stay at their current company.

    – Steve
    Apr 25 at 17:30











  • @NuclearWang I added those edits. Hopefully this sheds some light on the matter

    – Steve
    Apr 25 at 21:32















11














This is normal. New hires wouldn't work if it wasn't. You're not paid based on experience. You're paid based on how much you'll stay at work for. If you want to earn more money, you'll have to job hop. That's pretty standard too.



Should you mention the interns salary? Yes. 100% bring it up. Glass door exists so it's not like you don't know how much people in your company are being paid. If your boss, or whoever is in charge of your salary, thinks that you won't leave or, if they think they can easily replace you, or if there isn't money they won't give you a raise. That's how salary works.



So here's what you do about it. You clearly communicate that it's going to take more money to get you to stay. What this does is let who ever is in charge of your salary know that you aren't complacent.



Whoever the person who is in charge of your salary is, your salaryman, will have essentially 3 decisions to make. The first decision is weather or not to believe you. Statistically speaking, in most fields you won't leave. It's likely that you're just putting up a front for more money. So this leads to two places. The first is just not to believe you and play chicken with your salary. If your salaryman is right, you'll stay put, keep making noise, eventually fizzle out, and choose to work for what is essentially your current price.



Your salaryman can also choose to believe you. This leads to the other two decisions. The first one of these decisions, the second decision overall, is weather you're worth more money. The fact is that if you didn't make your company more money than you cost, you wouldn't be hired. That's fairly difficult to actually measure, so most of the time that point just boils down to your company thinking you make them more than you cost. This guessing game is essentially why reputation matters. If companies think you make them a mountain's weight in money, they'll pay you a maybe 40 metric tons of cash. If the your salaryman doesn't think you're worth the extra money, then he'll play chicken with your salary again. Similarly, if the salaryman thinks he can replace you easily when you quit, he won't care if you walk. In this situation, the only way for you to get a raise is charity; you're probably not getting a raise.



If your salaryman does think you're worth the money, then there's one more decision to make. Can the company afford to pay this employee more? Sometimes the answer is no and the salaryman has no choice but to play chicken with your salary and just hope you won't move on. Often it's yes. This is one of the points at which you get a raise.



The other way you get a raise is by winning the game of chicken; convince your company you're going to leave in such a way that they believe you and are motivated to make sure you stay, without actually leaving.



Kind of a rip off if you ask me.






share|improve this answer

























  • The first part of this answer is incongruous with the second. You are correct that you're paid whatever you'll stay at work for, but that has nothing to do with what other people will stay at work for. The intern's salary might be a signal that the OP is being underpaid, but it's not a compelling reason for management to give the OP a raise.

    – Nuclear Wang
    Apr 25 at 17:08






  • 1





    @NuclearWang I'll edit and add more detail. The short of it is, that if OP wants more money, then OP will have to effectively communicate that their current salary is not enough for them to stay at their current company.

    – Steve
    Apr 25 at 17:30











  • @NuclearWang I added those edits. Hopefully this sheds some light on the matter

    – Steve
    Apr 25 at 21:32













11












11








11







This is normal. New hires wouldn't work if it wasn't. You're not paid based on experience. You're paid based on how much you'll stay at work for. If you want to earn more money, you'll have to job hop. That's pretty standard too.



Should you mention the interns salary? Yes. 100% bring it up. Glass door exists so it's not like you don't know how much people in your company are being paid. If your boss, or whoever is in charge of your salary, thinks that you won't leave or, if they think they can easily replace you, or if there isn't money they won't give you a raise. That's how salary works.



So here's what you do about it. You clearly communicate that it's going to take more money to get you to stay. What this does is let who ever is in charge of your salary know that you aren't complacent.



Whoever the person who is in charge of your salary is, your salaryman, will have essentially 3 decisions to make. The first decision is weather or not to believe you. Statistically speaking, in most fields you won't leave. It's likely that you're just putting up a front for more money. So this leads to two places. The first is just not to believe you and play chicken with your salary. If your salaryman is right, you'll stay put, keep making noise, eventually fizzle out, and choose to work for what is essentially your current price.



Your salaryman can also choose to believe you. This leads to the other two decisions. The first one of these decisions, the second decision overall, is weather you're worth more money. The fact is that if you didn't make your company more money than you cost, you wouldn't be hired. That's fairly difficult to actually measure, so most of the time that point just boils down to your company thinking you make them more than you cost. This guessing game is essentially why reputation matters. If companies think you make them a mountain's weight in money, they'll pay you a maybe 40 metric tons of cash. If the your salaryman doesn't think you're worth the extra money, then he'll play chicken with your salary again. Similarly, if the salaryman thinks he can replace you easily when you quit, he won't care if you walk. In this situation, the only way for you to get a raise is charity; you're probably not getting a raise.



If your salaryman does think you're worth the money, then there's one more decision to make. Can the company afford to pay this employee more? Sometimes the answer is no and the salaryman has no choice but to play chicken with your salary and just hope you won't move on. Often it's yes. This is one of the points at which you get a raise.



The other way you get a raise is by winning the game of chicken; convince your company you're going to leave in such a way that they believe you and are motivated to make sure you stay, without actually leaving.



Kind of a rip off if you ask me.






share|improve this answer















This is normal. New hires wouldn't work if it wasn't. You're not paid based on experience. You're paid based on how much you'll stay at work for. If you want to earn more money, you'll have to job hop. That's pretty standard too.



Should you mention the interns salary? Yes. 100% bring it up. Glass door exists so it's not like you don't know how much people in your company are being paid. If your boss, or whoever is in charge of your salary, thinks that you won't leave or, if they think they can easily replace you, or if there isn't money they won't give you a raise. That's how salary works.



So here's what you do about it. You clearly communicate that it's going to take more money to get you to stay. What this does is let who ever is in charge of your salary know that you aren't complacent.



Whoever the person who is in charge of your salary is, your salaryman, will have essentially 3 decisions to make. The first decision is weather or not to believe you. Statistically speaking, in most fields you won't leave. It's likely that you're just putting up a front for more money. So this leads to two places. The first is just not to believe you and play chicken with your salary. If your salaryman is right, you'll stay put, keep making noise, eventually fizzle out, and choose to work for what is essentially your current price.



Your salaryman can also choose to believe you. This leads to the other two decisions. The first one of these decisions, the second decision overall, is weather you're worth more money. The fact is that if you didn't make your company more money than you cost, you wouldn't be hired. That's fairly difficult to actually measure, so most of the time that point just boils down to your company thinking you make them more than you cost. This guessing game is essentially why reputation matters. If companies think you make them a mountain's weight in money, they'll pay you a maybe 40 metric tons of cash. If the your salaryman doesn't think you're worth the extra money, then he'll play chicken with your salary again. Similarly, if the salaryman thinks he can replace you easily when you quit, he won't care if you walk. In this situation, the only way for you to get a raise is charity; you're probably not getting a raise.



If your salaryman does think you're worth the money, then there's one more decision to make. Can the company afford to pay this employee more? Sometimes the answer is no and the salaryman has no choice but to play chicken with your salary and just hope you won't move on. Often it's yes. This is one of the points at which you get a raise.



The other way you get a raise is by winning the game of chicken; convince your company you're going to leave in such a way that they believe you and are motivated to make sure you stay, without actually leaving.



Kind of a rip off if you ask me.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited Apr 25 at 21:32

























answered Apr 25 at 14:19









SteveSteve

3,664723




3,664723












  • The first part of this answer is incongruous with the second. You are correct that you're paid whatever you'll stay at work for, but that has nothing to do with what other people will stay at work for. The intern's salary might be a signal that the OP is being underpaid, but it's not a compelling reason for management to give the OP a raise.

    – Nuclear Wang
    Apr 25 at 17:08






  • 1





    @NuclearWang I'll edit and add more detail. The short of it is, that if OP wants more money, then OP will have to effectively communicate that their current salary is not enough for them to stay at their current company.

    – Steve
    Apr 25 at 17:30











  • @NuclearWang I added those edits. Hopefully this sheds some light on the matter

    – Steve
    Apr 25 at 21:32

















  • The first part of this answer is incongruous with the second. You are correct that you're paid whatever you'll stay at work for, but that has nothing to do with what other people will stay at work for. The intern's salary might be a signal that the OP is being underpaid, but it's not a compelling reason for management to give the OP a raise.

    – Nuclear Wang
    Apr 25 at 17:08






  • 1





    @NuclearWang I'll edit and add more detail. The short of it is, that if OP wants more money, then OP will have to effectively communicate that their current salary is not enough for them to stay at their current company.

    – Steve
    Apr 25 at 17:30











  • @NuclearWang I added those edits. Hopefully this sheds some light on the matter

    – Steve
    Apr 25 at 21:32
















The first part of this answer is incongruous with the second. You are correct that you're paid whatever you'll stay at work for, but that has nothing to do with what other people will stay at work for. The intern's salary might be a signal that the OP is being underpaid, but it's not a compelling reason for management to give the OP a raise.

– Nuclear Wang
Apr 25 at 17:08





The first part of this answer is incongruous with the second. You are correct that you're paid whatever you'll stay at work for, but that has nothing to do with what other people will stay at work for. The intern's salary might be a signal that the OP is being underpaid, but it's not a compelling reason for management to give the OP a raise.

– Nuclear Wang
Apr 25 at 17:08




1




1





@NuclearWang I'll edit and add more detail. The short of it is, that if OP wants more money, then OP will have to effectively communicate that their current salary is not enough for them to stay at their current company.

– Steve
Apr 25 at 17:30





@NuclearWang I'll edit and add more detail. The short of it is, that if OP wants more money, then OP will have to effectively communicate that their current salary is not enough for them to stay at their current company.

– Steve
Apr 25 at 17:30













@NuclearWang I added those edits. Hopefully this sheds some light on the matter

– Steve
Apr 25 at 21:32





@NuclearWang I added those edits. Hopefully this sheds some light on the matter

– Steve
Apr 25 at 21:32











2














Employers want employees with skills. Experience is a proxy for skills, not a something that's valuable in and of itself. Apparently, your employer is satisfied that the new hire has the skills to provide the same value that you do, and has had the opportunity to directly evaluate his skills, rather than use proxies such as experience. It's up to your employer, not you, to decide how much value each employee is bringing. If you're both in similar roles providing similar work, they may see little reason to pay you more simply because you have more experience, just as they may see little reason to pay someone more simply because they have a master's and the other employees only have a bachelor's.






share|improve this answer























  • It does sound like the OP is going to be in a senior position over the former intern.

    – aherocalledFrog
    Apr 25 at 18:57















2














Employers want employees with skills. Experience is a proxy for skills, not a something that's valuable in and of itself. Apparently, your employer is satisfied that the new hire has the skills to provide the same value that you do, and has had the opportunity to directly evaluate his skills, rather than use proxies such as experience. It's up to your employer, not you, to decide how much value each employee is bringing. If you're both in similar roles providing similar work, they may see little reason to pay you more simply because you have more experience, just as they may see little reason to pay someone more simply because they have a master's and the other employees only have a bachelor's.






share|improve this answer























  • It does sound like the OP is going to be in a senior position over the former intern.

    – aherocalledFrog
    Apr 25 at 18:57













2












2








2







Employers want employees with skills. Experience is a proxy for skills, not a something that's valuable in and of itself. Apparently, your employer is satisfied that the new hire has the skills to provide the same value that you do, and has had the opportunity to directly evaluate his skills, rather than use proxies such as experience. It's up to your employer, not you, to decide how much value each employee is bringing. If you're both in similar roles providing similar work, they may see little reason to pay you more simply because you have more experience, just as they may see little reason to pay someone more simply because they have a master's and the other employees only have a bachelor's.






share|improve this answer













Employers want employees with skills. Experience is a proxy for skills, not a something that's valuable in and of itself. Apparently, your employer is satisfied that the new hire has the skills to provide the same value that you do, and has had the opportunity to directly evaluate his skills, rather than use proxies such as experience. It's up to your employer, not you, to decide how much value each employee is bringing. If you're both in similar roles providing similar work, they may see little reason to pay you more simply because you have more experience, just as they may see little reason to pay someone more simply because they have a master's and the other employees only have a bachelor's.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered Apr 25 at 16:00









AcccumulationAcccumulation

3,3751613




3,3751613












  • It does sound like the OP is going to be in a senior position over the former intern.

    – aherocalledFrog
    Apr 25 at 18:57

















  • It does sound like the OP is going to be in a senior position over the former intern.

    – aherocalledFrog
    Apr 25 at 18:57
















It does sound like the OP is going to be in a senior position over the former intern.

– aherocalledFrog
Apr 25 at 18:57





It does sound like the OP is going to be in a senior position over the former intern.

– aherocalledFrog
Apr 25 at 18:57











2














I agree with most of the answers here, since they all could be correct - depending on the exact context.



However, a slightly different perspective to consider is that this new hire may be atypical - s/he may be above average - and that you can't directly compare this person's salary to either your salary or the average new hire's.




  1. "Years of experience" may not be worth as much as you think. As another answer mentions, years of experience is often just a proxy for skill. In Code Complete, Steve McConnell explicitly addresses this in a section Characteristics That Don't Matter As Much As You Might Think :




    The bottom line on experience is this: if you work for 10 years, do
    you get 10 years of experience or do you get 1 year of experience 10
    times?




    The same experience repeated 10x may not be as valuable as 10x as much experience and the corresponding skills.



    Professional athletes, movie stars, et cetera are not paid based on their years of experience. Likewise, software development isn't really about years of experience, but skills and knowledge. And skills and knowledge don't necessarily correlate to years of experience - to quote McConnell again:




    You have to reflect on your activities to get true experience. If you
    make learning a continuous commitment, you'll get experience. If you
    don't, you won't, no matter how many years you have under your belt.




  2. You also state that you feel your achievements are underappreciated despite a recent raise "Because the "reward" so to say is given freely to new people." Was it freely given? Or does this new hire already possess significant skills and thus has earned the reward? It's unclear whether the new hire possesses the skills you were rewarded for, or perhaps has other skills. Also keep in mind that some skills are valued more highly than others - and this new hire may have them.


  3. Finally, is the salary a typical new hire rate (for intern with this experience) or is this person exceptional and thus the starting salary is also an exception? An above average starting programmer getting an above average starting salary wouldn't be unfair.


Just something to consider which may apply in this case, and would certainly apply in some other cases - basically, that this new hire may be an exceptional case and their salary may likewise be an exception.



As others have suggested, a bit of market research - including checking out some other opportunities - may help you find out what typical starting salaries are, and also what salary your skills and experience can command. Perhaps you'll learn you're undervalued, or you may find your salary is average or better than average.



Edit: I note that while typing this, @Accumulation has also addressed this general theme.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




Colin K is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




















  • hi and welcome to the Workplace. Could you articulate your point? Right now it looks more like several rhetorical questions, but OP might have trouble reading through them

    – aaaaaa
    Apr 25 at 18:23











  • Thanks. I reworked things to try to make the point more explicit that years of experience does not necessarily equate to practical experience. There is no way to avoid some rhetorical sounding questions, unfortunately, since we're discussing a new hire in the abstract because we don't actually know the individual new hire and his/her skills at all. Thus, there are several questions for the OP, or future "long term team members", to ask themselves when comparing their value to others.

    – Colin K
    2 days ago
















2














I agree with most of the answers here, since they all could be correct - depending on the exact context.



However, a slightly different perspective to consider is that this new hire may be atypical - s/he may be above average - and that you can't directly compare this person's salary to either your salary or the average new hire's.




  1. "Years of experience" may not be worth as much as you think. As another answer mentions, years of experience is often just a proxy for skill. In Code Complete, Steve McConnell explicitly addresses this in a section Characteristics That Don't Matter As Much As You Might Think :




    The bottom line on experience is this: if you work for 10 years, do
    you get 10 years of experience or do you get 1 year of experience 10
    times?




    The same experience repeated 10x may not be as valuable as 10x as much experience and the corresponding skills.



    Professional athletes, movie stars, et cetera are not paid based on their years of experience. Likewise, software development isn't really about years of experience, but skills and knowledge. And skills and knowledge don't necessarily correlate to years of experience - to quote McConnell again:




    You have to reflect on your activities to get true experience. If you
    make learning a continuous commitment, you'll get experience. If you
    don't, you won't, no matter how many years you have under your belt.




  2. You also state that you feel your achievements are underappreciated despite a recent raise "Because the "reward" so to say is given freely to new people." Was it freely given? Or does this new hire already possess significant skills and thus has earned the reward? It's unclear whether the new hire possesses the skills you were rewarded for, or perhaps has other skills. Also keep in mind that some skills are valued more highly than others - and this new hire may have them.


  3. Finally, is the salary a typical new hire rate (for intern with this experience) or is this person exceptional and thus the starting salary is also an exception? An above average starting programmer getting an above average starting salary wouldn't be unfair.


Just something to consider which may apply in this case, and would certainly apply in some other cases - basically, that this new hire may be an exceptional case and their salary may likewise be an exception.



As others have suggested, a bit of market research - including checking out some other opportunities - may help you find out what typical starting salaries are, and also what salary your skills and experience can command. Perhaps you'll learn you're undervalued, or you may find your salary is average or better than average.



Edit: I note that while typing this, @Accumulation has also addressed this general theme.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




Colin K is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




















  • hi and welcome to the Workplace. Could you articulate your point? Right now it looks more like several rhetorical questions, but OP might have trouble reading through them

    – aaaaaa
    Apr 25 at 18:23











  • Thanks. I reworked things to try to make the point more explicit that years of experience does not necessarily equate to practical experience. There is no way to avoid some rhetorical sounding questions, unfortunately, since we're discussing a new hire in the abstract because we don't actually know the individual new hire and his/her skills at all. Thus, there are several questions for the OP, or future "long term team members", to ask themselves when comparing their value to others.

    – Colin K
    2 days ago














2












2








2







I agree with most of the answers here, since they all could be correct - depending on the exact context.



However, a slightly different perspective to consider is that this new hire may be atypical - s/he may be above average - and that you can't directly compare this person's salary to either your salary or the average new hire's.




  1. "Years of experience" may not be worth as much as you think. As another answer mentions, years of experience is often just a proxy for skill. In Code Complete, Steve McConnell explicitly addresses this in a section Characteristics That Don't Matter As Much As You Might Think :




    The bottom line on experience is this: if you work for 10 years, do
    you get 10 years of experience or do you get 1 year of experience 10
    times?




    The same experience repeated 10x may not be as valuable as 10x as much experience and the corresponding skills.



    Professional athletes, movie stars, et cetera are not paid based on their years of experience. Likewise, software development isn't really about years of experience, but skills and knowledge. And skills and knowledge don't necessarily correlate to years of experience - to quote McConnell again:




    You have to reflect on your activities to get true experience. If you
    make learning a continuous commitment, you'll get experience. If you
    don't, you won't, no matter how many years you have under your belt.




  2. You also state that you feel your achievements are underappreciated despite a recent raise "Because the "reward" so to say is given freely to new people." Was it freely given? Or does this new hire already possess significant skills and thus has earned the reward? It's unclear whether the new hire possesses the skills you were rewarded for, or perhaps has other skills. Also keep in mind that some skills are valued more highly than others - and this new hire may have them.


  3. Finally, is the salary a typical new hire rate (for intern with this experience) or is this person exceptional and thus the starting salary is also an exception? An above average starting programmer getting an above average starting salary wouldn't be unfair.


Just something to consider which may apply in this case, and would certainly apply in some other cases - basically, that this new hire may be an exceptional case and their salary may likewise be an exception.



As others have suggested, a bit of market research - including checking out some other opportunities - may help you find out what typical starting salaries are, and also what salary your skills and experience can command. Perhaps you'll learn you're undervalued, or you may find your salary is average or better than average.



Edit: I note that while typing this, @Accumulation has also addressed this general theme.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




Colin K is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.










I agree with most of the answers here, since they all could be correct - depending on the exact context.



However, a slightly different perspective to consider is that this new hire may be atypical - s/he may be above average - and that you can't directly compare this person's salary to either your salary or the average new hire's.




  1. "Years of experience" may not be worth as much as you think. As another answer mentions, years of experience is often just a proxy for skill. In Code Complete, Steve McConnell explicitly addresses this in a section Characteristics That Don't Matter As Much As You Might Think :




    The bottom line on experience is this: if you work for 10 years, do
    you get 10 years of experience or do you get 1 year of experience 10
    times?




    The same experience repeated 10x may not be as valuable as 10x as much experience and the corresponding skills.



    Professional athletes, movie stars, et cetera are not paid based on their years of experience. Likewise, software development isn't really about years of experience, but skills and knowledge. And skills and knowledge don't necessarily correlate to years of experience - to quote McConnell again:




    You have to reflect on your activities to get true experience. If you
    make learning a continuous commitment, you'll get experience. If you
    don't, you won't, no matter how many years you have under your belt.




  2. You also state that you feel your achievements are underappreciated despite a recent raise "Because the "reward" so to say is given freely to new people." Was it freely given? Or does this new hire already possess significant skills and thus has earned the reward? It's unclear whether the new hire possesses the skills you were rewarded for, or perhaps has other skills. Also keep in mind that some skills are valued more highly than others - and this new hire may have them.


  3. Finally, is the salary a typical new hire rate (for intern with this experience) or is this person exceptional and thus the starting salary is also an exception? An above average starting programmer getting an above average starting salary wouldn't be unfair.


Just something to consider which may apply in this case, and would certainly apply in some other cases - basically, that this new hire may be an exceptional case and their salary may likewise be an exception.



As others have suggested, a bit of market research - including checking out some other opportunities - may help you find out what typical starting salaries are, and also what salary your skills and experience can command. Perhaps you'll learn you're undervalued, or you may find your salary is average or better than average.



Edit: I note that while typing this, @Accumulation has also addressed this general theme.







share|improve this answer










New contributor




Colin K is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 2 days ago





















New contributor




Colin K is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









answered Apr 25 at 16:11









Colin KColin K

213




213




New contributor




Colin K is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





Colin K is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Colin K is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












  • hi and welcome to the Workplace. Could you articulate your point? Right now it looks more like several rhetorical questions, but OP might have trouble reading through them

    – aaaaaa
    Apr 25 at 18:23











  • Thanks. I reworked things to try to make the point more explicit that years of experience does not necessarily equate to practical experience. There is no way to avoid some rhetorical sounding questions, unfortunately, since we're discussing a new hire in the abstract because we don't actually know the individual new hire and his/her skills at all. Thus, there are several questions for the OP, or future "long term team members", to ask themselves when comparing their value to others.

    – Colin K
    2 days ago


















  • hi and welcome to the Workplace. Could you articulate your point? Right now it looks more like several rhetorical questions, but OP might have trouble reading through them

    – aaaaaa
    Apr 25 at 18:23











  • Thanks. I reworked things to try to make the point more explicit that years of experience does not necessarily equate to practical experience. There is no way to avoid some rhetorical sounding questions, unfortunately, since we're discussing a new hire in the abstract because we don't actually know the individual new hire and his/her skills at all. Thus, there are several questions for the OP, or future "long term team members", to ask themselves when comparing their value to others.

    – Colin K
    2 days ago

















hi and welcome to the Workplace. Could you articulate your point? Right now it looks more like several rhetorical questions, but OP might have trouble reading through them

– aaaaaa
Apr 25 at 18:23





hi and welcome to the Workplace. Could you articulate your point? Right now it looks more like several rhetorical questions, but OP might have trouble reading through them

– aaaaaa
Apr 25 at 18:23













Thanks. I reworked things to try to make the point more explicit that years of experience does not necessarily equate to practical experience. There is no way to avoid some rhetorical sounding questions, unfortunately, since we're discussing a new hire in the abstract because we don't actually know the individual new hire and his/her skills at all. Thus, there are several questions for the OP, or future "long term team members", to ask themselves when comparing their value to others.

– Colin K
2 days ago






Thanks. I reworked things to try to make the point more explicit that years of experience does not necessarily equate to practical experience. There is no way to avoid some rhetorical sounding questions, unfortunately, since we're discussing a new hire in the abstract because we don't actually know the individual new hire and his/her skills at all. Thus, there are several questions for the OP, or future "long term team members", to ask themselves when comparing their value to others.

– Colin K
2 days ago












-3














Just say them you've got an offer twice your current salary. Eve if they raised yours recently, this makes you feel like you are seriously underpaid. They know they can pay it to you and they won't want to lose you over that. You'll get it.



UPD: The reasoning behind this advice is that if they are so eager to hire and overpay new employee without any actual experience on the job, with months ahead to fill, with no actual achievements, they have to be crazy to not try to at least bargain. What they doing with OP is a very regular thing actually. They negging him because he falls for it and allows them to pay less - so they do save a lot of money, while actually having the resources to give him a decent pay.



For them it's not even about money, they just feel they will look weak if they give you a raise without a reason. So they making shit up, like you have to show and achieve, to milk you for the value. Some stuff they learn at the management classes. To them, we are units, you can rarely expect humane treatment until you yourself understand that you deserve it.



Some people say you can get fired over this bluff. I give it zero chance, but think of this. You are already unhappy. You are already being treated unfairly, and every day you work there you will feel it, think about it, until you either restore the balance or quit. Learning truth is often unsettling and has consequences. Decide how you want to handle the situation because otherwise it's you who being handled.



Even if you lose your job (which can only happen either if you quit or allow your temper to get the better of you), you can always find a better one, where you will be at better position with all the experience behind your back, and can actually get better offer.



If you are strongly against the bluff, just get an offer for real. Update your LinkedIn and go to the couple of the interviews. See what options you have for the worst case scenario. I'm sure you'll be surprised.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




Ashton Catchem is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.















  • 4





    This is a risky tactic if they call your bluff.

    – GrandMasterFlush
    Apr 25 at 15:09






  • 2





    hi Ashton and welcome to Workplace. In general, this community advise not to lie intentionally. Also "they won't want to lose you over that" is an assumption. Could you expand your answer to help OP hedge their bet? basically, give advice how no to get fired if they follow your suggestion

    – aaaaaa
    Apr 25 at 16:50











  • Terrible advice. The company is very likely to say 'great, enjoy your new job'.

    – 17 of 26
    Apr 25 at 17:05











  • If company easily says that to the lead they are going down pretty soon anyway.

    – Ashton Catchem
    Apr 25 at 20:18















-3














Just say them you've got an offer twice your current salary. Eve if they raised yours recently, this makes you feel like you are seriously underpaid. They know they can pay it to you and they won't want to lose you over that. You'll get it.



UPD: The reasoning behind this advice is that if they are so eager to hire and overpay new employee without any actual experience on the job, with months ahead to fill, with no actual achievements, they have to be crazy to not try to at least bargain. What they doing with OP is a very regular thing actually. They negging him because he falls for it and allows them to pay less - so they do save a lot of money, while actually having the resources to give him a decent pay.



For them it's not even about money, they just feel they will look weak if they give you a raise without a reason. So they making shit up, like you have to show and achieve, to milk you for the value. Some stuff they learn at the management classes. To them, we are units, you can rarely expect humane treatment until you yourself understand that you deserve it.



Some people say you can get fired over this bluff. I give it zero chance, but think of this. You are already unhappy. You are already being treated unfairly, and every day you work there you will feel it, think about it, until you either restore the balance or quit. Learning truth is often unsettling and has consequences. Decide how you want to handle the situation because otherwise it's you who being handled.



Even if you lose your job (which can only happen either if you quit or allow your temper to get the better of you), you can always find a better one, where you will be at better position with all the experience behind your back, and can actually get better offer.



If you are strongly against the bluff, just get an offer for real. Update your LinkedIn and go to the couple of the interviews. See what options you have for the worst case scenario. I'm sure you'll be surprised.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




Ashton Catchem is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.















  • 4





    This is a risky tactic if they call your bluff.

    – GrandMasterFlush
    Apr 25 at 15:09






  • 2





    hi Ashton and welcome to Workplace. In general, this community advise not to lie intentionally. Also "they won't want to lose you over that" is an assumption. Could you expand your answer to help OP hedge their bet? basically, give advice how no to get fired if they follow your suggestion

    – aaaaaa
    Apr 25 at 16:50











  • Terrible advice. The company is very likely to say 'great, enjoy your new job'.

    – 17 of 26
    Apr 25 at 17:05











  • If company easily says that to the lead they are going down pretty soon anyway.

    – Ashton Catchem
    Apr 25 at 20:18













-3












-3








-3







Just say them you've got an offer twice your current salary. Eve if they raised yours recently, this makes you feel like you are seriously underpaid. They know they can pay it to you and they won't want to lose you over that. You'll get it.



UPD: The reasoning behind this advice is that if they are so eager to hire and overpay new employee without any actual experience on the job, with months ahead to fill, with no actual achievements, they have to be crazy to not try to at least bargain. What they doing with OP is a very regular thing actually. They negging him because he falls for it and allows them to pay less - so they do save a lot of money, while actually having the resources to give him a decent pay.



For them it's not even about money, they just feel they will look weak if they give you a raise without a reason. So they making shit up, like you have to show and achieve, to milk you for the value. Some stuff they learn at the management classes. To them, we are units, you can rarely expect humane treatment until you yourself understand that you deserve it.



Some people say you can get fired over this bluff. I give it zero chance, but think of this. You are already unhappy. You are already being treated unfairly, and every day you work there you will feel it, think about it, until you either restore the balance or quit. Learning truth is often unsettling and has consequences. Decide how you want to handle the situation because otherwise it's you who being handled.



Even if you lose your job (which can only happen either if you quit or allow your temper to get the better of you), you can always find a better one, where you will be at better position with all the experience behind your back, and can actually get better offer.



If you are strongly against the bluff, just get an offer for real. Update your LinkedIn and go to the couple of the interviews. See what options you have for the worst case scenario. I'm sure you'll be surprised.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




Ashton Catchem is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.










Just say them you've got an offer twice your current salary. Eve if they raised yours recently, this makes you feel like you are seriously underpaid. They know they can pay it to you and they won't want to lose you over that. You'll get it.



UPD: The reasoning behind this advice is that if they are so eager to hire and overpay new employee without any actual experience on the job, with months ahead to fill, with no actual achievements, they have to be crazy to not try to at least bargain. What they doing with OP is a very regular thing actually. They negging him because he falls for it and allows them to pay less - so they do save a lot of money, while actually having the resources to give him a decent pay.



For them it's not even about money, they just feel they will look weak if they give you a raise without a reason. So they making shit up, like you have to show and achieve, to milk you for the value. Some stuff they learn at the management classes. To them, we are units, you can rarely expect humane treatment until you yourself understand that you deserve it.



Some people say you can get fired over this bluff. I give it zero chance, but think of this. You are already unhappy. You are already being treated unfairly, and every day you work there you will feel it, think about it, until you either restore the balance or quit. Learning truth is often unsettling and has consequences. Decide how you want to handle the situation because otherwise it's you who being handled.



Even if you lose your job (which can only happen either if you quit or allow your temper to get the better of you), you can always find a better one, where you will be at better position with all the experience behind your back, and can actually get better offer.



If you are strongly against the bluff, just get an offer for real. Update your LinkedIn and go to the couple of the interviews. See what options you have for the worst case scenario. I'm sure you'll be surprised.







share|improve this answer










New contributor




Ashton Catchem is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited Apr 25 at 20:13





















New contributor




Ashton Catchem is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









answered Apr 25 at 14:59









Ashton CatchemAshton Catchem

111




111




New contributor




Ashton Catchem is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





Ashton Catchem is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Ashton Catchem is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







  • 4





    This is a risky tactic if they call your bluff.

    – GrandMasterFlush
    Apr 25 at 15:09






  • 2





    hi Ashton and welcome to Workplace. In general, this community advise not to lie intentionally. Also "they won't want to lose you over that" is an assumption. Could you expand your answer to help OP hedge their bet? basically, give advice how no to get fired if they follow your suggestion

    – aaaaaa
    Apr 25 at 16:50











  • Terrible advice. The company is very likely to say 'great, enjoy your new job'.

    – 17 of 26
    Apr 25 at 17:05











  • If company easily says that to the lead they are going down pretty soon anyway.

    – Ashton Catchem
    Apr 25 at 20:18












  • 4





    This is a risky tactic if they call your bluff.

    – GrandMasterFlush
    Apr 25 at 15:09






  • 2





    hi Ashton and welcome to Workplace. In general, this community advise not to lie intentionally. Also "they won't want to lose you over that" is an assumption. Could you expand your answer to help OP hedge their bet? basically, give advice how no to get fired if they follow your suggestion

    – aaaaaa
    Apr 25 at 16:50











  • Terrible advice. The company is very likely to say 'great, enjoy your new job'.

    – 17 of 26
    Apr 25 at 17:05











  • If company easily says that to the lead they are going down pretty soon anyway.

    – Ashton Catchem
    Apr 25 at 20:18







4




4





This is a risky tactic if they call your bluff.

– GrandMasterFlush
Apr 25 at 15:09





This is a risky tactic if they call your bluff.

– GrandMasterFlush
Apr 25 at 15:09




2




2





hi Ashton and welcome to Workplace. In general, this community advise not to lie intentionally. Also "they won't want to lose you over that" is an assumption. Could you expand your answer to help OP hedge their bet? basically, give advice how no to get fired if they follow your suggestion

– aaaaaa
Apr 25 at 16:50





hi Ashton and welcome to Workplace. In general, this community advise not to lie intentionally. Also "they won't want to lose you over that" is an assumption. Could you expand your answer to help OP hedge their bet? basically, give advice how no to get fired if they follow your suggestion

– aaaaaa
Apr 25 at 16:50













Terrible advice. The company is very likely to say 'great, enjoy your new job'.

– 17 of 26
Apr 25 at 17:05





Terrible advice. The company is very likely to say 'great, enjoy your new job'.

– 17 of 26
Apr 25 at 17:05













If company easily says that to the lead they are going down pretty soon anyway.

– Ashton Catchem
Apr 25 at 20:18





If company easily says that to the lead they are going down pretty soon anyway.

– Ashton Catchem
Apr 25 at 20:18



Popular posts from this blog

Get product attribute by attribute group code in magento 2get product attribute by product attribute group in magento 2Magento 2 Log Bundle Product Data in List Page?How to get all product attribute of a attribute group of Default attribute set?Magento 2.1 Create a filter in the product grid by new attributeMagento 2 : Get Product Attribute values By GroupMagento 2 How to get all existing values for one attributeMagento 2 get custom attribute of a single product inside a pluginMagento 2.3 How to get all the Multi Source Inventory (MSI) locations collection in custom module?Magento2: how to develop rest API to get new productsGet product attribute by attribute group code ( [attribute_group_code] ) in magento 2

Category:9 (number) SubcategoriesMedia in category "9 (number)"Navigation menuUpload mediaGND ID: 4485639-8Library of Congress authority ID: sh85091979ReasonatorScholiaStatistics

Magento 2.3: How do i solve this, Not registered handle, on custom form?How can i rewrite TierPrice Block in Magento2magento 2 captcha not rendering if I override layout xmlmain.CRITICAL: Plugin class doesn't existMagento 2 : Problem while adding custom button order view page?Magento 2.2.5: Overriding Admin Controller sales/orderMagento 2.2.5: Add, Update and Delete existing products Custom OptionsMagento 2.3 : File Upload issue in UI Component FormMagento2 Not registered handleHow to configured Form Builder Js in my custom magento 2.3.0 module?Magento 2.3. How to create image upload field in an admin form