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What's the 2-minute timer on mobile Deutsche Bahn tickets?


PDF tickets on phone on Deutsche BahnDeutsche Bahn: Reliable wifi on train?Why is a single return ticket more expensive than separate tickets for the two sectors?Paying for Deutsche Bahn tickets with cashCan I travel Italian regional train tickets in the opposite direction of travel?Train from Brussels to DusseldorfAre Deutsche Bahn ticket details available when bought on the day of the trip?Free travel with S-Bahn with Deutsche Bahn Intercity TicketDeutsche Bahn (DB) Lounge BerlinDeutsche Bahn not responding?






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50















A few days ago I purchased a single ticket from Cologne (Köln) to Aachen via the DB Navigator app. The ticket was valid for 6 hours after the purchase, however a timer started from 00:00 and stopped at 02:00 as seen on the image below.



What is the purpose of this timer?



deutsche bahn ticket



P.S. I returned to Cologne with a different ticket, the same timer appeared again.










share|improve this question

















  • 2





    Makes me wonder if you have 2 minutes to stop the sale, after commiting?

    – Willeke
    May 4 at 20:05











  • @Willeke There was a button "Edit Order", it looked active both before and after the timer expired. I haven't tried, but your guess might be a case.

    – ahmedus
    May 4 at 20:16











  • @Willeke: AFAIK unfortunately, no.

    – cbeleites
    May 4 at 22:30






  • 1





    This timer is not specific to Deutsche Bahn app, you can see it in (almost) every app of local transport companies too.

    – Neusser
    May 4 at 22:48






  • 3





    Or cheap, sufficient enough solution when looking at what the attack vector is. If you use local transit, and you look at the people who would cheat and not buying tickets, honestly the majority of them will most likely not know how to hack a mobile app.

    – dunni
    2 days ago

















50















A few days ago I purchased a single ticket from Cologne (Köln) to Aachen via the DB Navigator app. The ticket was valid for 6 hours after the purchase, however a timer started from 00:00 and stopped at 02:00 as seen on the image below.



What is the purpose of this timer?



deutsche bahn ticket



P.S. I returned to Cologne with a different ticket, the same timer appeared again.










share|improve this question

















  • 2





    Makes me wonder if you have 2 minutes to stop the sale, after commiting?

    – Willeke
    May 4 at 20:05











  • @Willeke There was a button "Edit Order", it looked active both before and after the timer expired. I haven't tried, but your guess might be a case.

    – ahmedus
    May 4 at 20:16











  • @Willeke: AFAIK unfortunately, no.

    – cbeleites
    May 4 at 22:30






  • 1





    This timer is not specific to Deutsche Bahn app, you can see it in (almost) every app of local transport companies too.

    – Neusser
    May 4 at 22:48






  • 3





    Or cheap, sufficient enough solution when looking at what the attack vector is. If you use local transit, and you look at the people who would cheat and not buying tickets, honestly the majority of them will most likely not know how to hack a mobile app.

    – dunni
    2 days ago













50












50








50


5






A few days ago I purchased a single ticket from Cologne (Köln) to Aachen via the DB Navigator app. The ticket was valid for 6 hours after the purchase, however a timer started from 00:00 and stopped at 02:00 as seen on the image below.



What is the purpose of this timer?



deutsche bahn ticket



P.S. I returned to Cologne with a different ticket, the same timer appeared again.










share|improve this question














A few days ago I purchased a single ticket from Cologne (Köln) to Aachen via the DB Navigator app. The ticket was valid for 6 hours after the purchase, however a timer started from 00:00 and stopped at 02:00 as seen on the image below.



What is the purpose of this timer?



deutsche bahn ticket



P.S. I returned to Cologne with a different ticket, the same timer appeared again.







trains tickets germany deutsche-bahn






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked May 4 at 19:12









ahmedusahmedus

3,70172556




3,70172556







  • 2





    Makes me wonder if you have 2 minutes to stop the sale, after commiting?

    – Willeke
    May 4 at 20:05











  • @Willeke There was a button "Edit Order", it looked active both before and after the timer expired. I haven't tried, but your guess might be a case.

    – ahmedus
    May 4 at 20:16











  • @Willeke: AFAIK unfortunately, no.

    – cbeleites
    May 4 at 22:30






  • 1





    This timer is not specific to Deutsche Bahn app, you can see it in (almost) every app of local transport companies too.

    – Neusser
    May 4 at 22:48






  • 3





    Or cheap, sufficient enough solution when looking at what the attack vector is. If you use local transit, and you look at the people who would cheat and not buying tickets, honestly the majority of them will most likely not know how to hack a mobile app.

    – dunni
    2 days ago












  • 2





    Makes me wonder if you have 2 minutes to stop the sale, after commiting?

    – Willeke
    May 4 at 20:05











  • @Willeke There was a button "Edit Order", it looked active both before and after the timer expired. I haven't tried, but your guess might be a case.

    – ahmedus
    May 4 at 20:16











  • @Willeke: AFAIK unfortunately, no.

    – cbeleites
    May 4 at 22:30






  • 1





    This timer is not specific to Deutsche Bahn app, you can see it in (almost) every app of local transport companies too.

    – Neusser
    May 4 at 22:48






  • 3





    Or cheap, sufficient enough solution when looking at what the attack vector is. If you use local transit, and you look at the people who would cheat and not buying tickets, honestly the majority of them will most likely not know how to hack a mobile app.

    – dunni
    2 days ago







2




2





Makes me wonder if you have 2 minutes to stop the sale, after commiting?

– Willeke
May 4 at 20:05





Makes me wonder if you have 2 minutes to stop the sale, after commiting?

– Willeke
May 4 at 20:05













@Willeke There was a button "Edit Order", it looked active both before and after the timer expired. I haven't tried, but your guess might be a case.

– ahmedus
May 4 at 20:16





@Willeke There was a button "Edit Order", it looked active both before and after the timer expired. I haven't tried, but your guess might be a case.

– ahmedus
May 4 at 20:16













@Willeke: AFAIK unfortunately, no.

– cbeleites
May 4 at 22:30





@Willeke: AFAIK unfortunately, no.

– cbeleites
May 4 at 22:30




1




1





This timer is not specific to Deutsche Bahn app, you can see it in (almost) every app of local transport companies too.

– Neusser
May 4 at 22:48





This timer is not specific to Deutsche Bahn app, you can see it in (almost) every app of local transport companies too.

– Neusser
May 4 at 22:48




3




3





Or cheap, sufficient enough solution when looking at what the attack vector is. If you use local transit, and you look at the people who would cheat and not buying tickets, honestly the majority of them will most likely not know how to hack a mobile app.

– dunni
2 days ago





Or cheap, sufficient enough solution when looking at what the attack vector is. If you use local transit, and you look at the people who would cheat and not buying tickets, honestly the majority of them will most likely not know how to hack a mobile app.

– dunni
2 days ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















95














According to this link (only in German), it is to check if you have bought the ticket just right now or a sufficient amount of time before. The rules usually are, that you have to buy a ticket before you get on the train. Now, with mobile tickets, some "clever" people thought, they just need to buy a ticket when they see the conductor, and to ride free when they don't see one. In local transit (especially trams, and more and more regional trains) you don't have a regular conductor in every train anymore, but just ticket checking teams, which go around the city. Obviously they can only cover a small part of the available transit vehicles.

This is most likely the reason why the operators introduced this timer, so that it's visible for the conductor if you have bought the ticket just right now or more than 2 minutes ago.






share|improve this answer


















  • 2





    Don't you need to scan the QR code like any other paper tickets? That timer seems a pretty bad solution against fraud... It same as buying the ticket and waiting for the operator to punch it.

    – Alexis_FR_JP
    May 5 at 2:08






  • 19





    @Alexis_FR_JP a hacked version of the DB app forcing the timer to always show 02:00 is probably available somewhere already. Its a security theater.

    – JonathanReez
    May 5 at 2:12






  • 6





    @JonathanReez This is not at all security theatre; see my answer below for why.

    – Curt J. Sampson
    2 days ago






  • 5





    So do even more "clever" people try to see the ticket checker coming, quickly buy the ticket, and then stall for a little bit until the two minute timer runs out? If you spend a little bit of time arguing with the ticket checker, then a bit of time fumbling for your phone, you could probably waste two minutes.

    – Zach Lipton
    2 days ago






  • 7





    @xji: Also, if the timer show 45 seconds, and you only entered the tram 30 seconds ago, that is fine. You don't have to stand outside for two minutes before you are allowed to enter. You just need to have the ticket bought before you enter.

    – Jörg W Mittag
    2 days ago


















44














@dunni's answer describes the attack that this security measure attempts to mitgate. A comment on his answer claims that this is "security theatre"; I describe in this answer (because this explanation is too long to fit into a comment) why it is not.



Most security measures cannot completely prevent attacks. An effective security measure is one that increases the cost to the attacker significantly while not also increasing costs to the defender beyond reasonable economic return.



This is why spot checks for tickets work though they sometimes allow people to travel for free: though an attacker can simply not buy a ticket and stand a chance of gaining free travel, if the penalty when this is discovered is high enough most potential attackers will choose to buy a ticket rather than run the risk of paying the fine or suffering other punishment



In this case, there are two requirements for an attacker:
1. Write or obtain a version of the app in appears to be the official one and which displays the same result as if the user had purchased the ticket well before the conductor arrived to check it.
2. Side-load this app, since Deutsche Bahn can fairly easily ensure that one appearing in the official store is easily taken down.



Writing such an app is significantly difficult; it involves not only having the skill to duplicate the app itself, but also overcoming any security measures protecting the original app (such as being able to extract any necessary keys from it necessary to instruct the DB servers to purchase a ticket).



Of course, once even one person writes such an app, it could be shared with others incapable of doing so. But finding such an app once it's written is also not completely trivial; DB also may have the ability, even if it's not on the official store, to get it taken down through legal means. If they can't do that, they can also easily change how their app works (different security keys, different network protocols, different display) to require the app's author to update it.



Even should the app be easily available, the user still needs to be sophisticated enough to side-load the app (since it won't be available from the official app store) and must also be willing to run the personal security risk that the app author is malicious and actually wrote the app to attack the users who download it, rather than DB.



All of the above combine to make a fairly high cost to the attacker, whereas for DB to add the timer to their existing app is very little work. Spending a few days of developer and tester time to add this feature to the application thus probably pays itself off very easily even if it prevents only 50% of the potential attackers from executing the attack (though it probably prevents a far higher percentage).



The reason something like American TSA security checks qualify as security theatre is because they impose very large costs on the defenders for very little gain against attackers. These checks exist because the costs are mainly borne by people who can do little about it (airlines and their passengers) whereas the benefits (looking like you're doing something about a problem) accrue only to some government and elected officials who suffer little of the overall cost.






share|improve this answer










New contributor



Curt J. Sampson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.














  • 11





    Or perhaps there is already a timestamp and the timer is just for the convenience of the user?

    – JonathanReez
    2 days ago






  • 15





    Isn’t all you need a screenshot of the ticket from the legitimate application, and to draw a new timer box over it? I don’t see why the application would need to talk to the DB servers at all, from what’s presented here.

    – Michael Homer
    2 days ago






  • 14





    If the timer reached 2 minutes, it starts blinking. Forgot to mention this in my answer. So a screenshot will not work.

    – dunni
    2 days ago






  • 9





    Finally, the Barcode reveals if a ticket is just a minute old, and no further information is necessary. Having no valid paper ticket already leads to long discussions. Now, imagine the discussion when the passenger has a technically valid ticket, and the conductor insists it was bought just a minute ago. The timer ends this immediately. I also guess that most passengers would not use any fraud app - but would try to buy a ticket when they spot the conductor.

    – sweber
    2 days ago






  • 8





    It's admittedly tricky to re-write the whole app. It's not tricky to put a graphical element on the screen showing "2:00".

    – theonlygusti
    2 days ago



















29














There is already a good answer: It provides an additional quick visual indicator in case the passenger bought the ticket only after entering the vehicle and spotting the conductor.



But let's add some more context.



Ticket controls do not usually pay for themselves with fines. Ticket controls are paid for by getting more people to buy tickets. The goal of ticket controls is not to catch passengers who cheat, it's to encourage passengers to buy valid tickets.



There are plenty of ways to circumvent the timer, starting with "My phone just crashed, the reboot will be done in a minute", and ending with software that creates a forged ticket. But I speculate that the app creators speculated that the timer reminds potential cheaters that purchase time is relevant. That would encourage those people to buy valid tickets.




To address comments to the other answers, which raised the legitimate concern of forged tickets defeating the timer: Purchase time stays relevant even if one of multiple mechanisms that show purchase time is defeated. And being caught with a forged ticket can be way more inconvenient than being caught without a ticket.






share|improve this answer




















  • 1





    This more directly and clearly explains one of the key points I was trying to make in my answer. Excellent answer!

    – Curt J. Sampson
    2 days ago






  • 2





    "It keeps honest people honest" is most likely the best reason behind all these security features. Any software security developed by humans can be defeated by other humans, given enough time & incentive. Increasing the difficulty of defeating the system keeps more people honest.

    – FreeMan
    yesterday











  • Just like the old saying - locks don't stop thieves, they stop honest people

    – llama
    yesterday






  • 3





    @llama With the very important caveat that, absent locks and any credible threat of being caught, an unfortunate number of honest people would act in a dishonest way.

    – J...
    14 hours ago


















1














This is all about a ticketing system called Proof of Payment.



Historically, conductors walked every train and checked every passenger, selling them a ticket if needed. However, this was expensive to staff, so they looked at ways to automate this.



They came up with a modified "honor system" where people would buy tickets, and carry proof of this. Then, random checks would occur, with expensive fines for violators.



  • In the first cut of this, tickets were sold at machines at stations. The station would put a timestamp on the ticket, and it was only valid for a limited time (so you couldn't use the same ticket over and over and over).

  • You couldn't buy tickets on the train, or else people would simply linger at the ticket machine and buy a ticket if they saw a fare inspector.

  • Then they offered advance sales (e.g. 10-ride ticket books), but you had to "validate" (put a time-stamp on it) at time of use at the station.

  • When smartphones came along, that brought back the problem of people buying tickets only when they see the inspector coming. It's even worse; on the smart device you could go through all the steps to buy a ticket, and pause at the final "Complete sale" button; and click that as the inspector enters the car.

So the timer is an attempt to crack that problem. It shows the inspector that the purchaser bought the ticket seconds ago; but more importantly, it shows the purchaser that the the inspector knows that.



The inspector can already get that information off the barcode; so it's more of a deterrent to the purchaser.






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    4 Answers
    4






    active

    oldest

    votes








    4 Answers
    4






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    95














    According to this link (only in German), it is to check if you have bought the ticket just right now or a sufficient amount of time before. The rules usually are, that you have to buy a ticket before you get on the train. Now, with mobile tickets, some "clever" people thought, they just need to buy a ticket when they see the conductor, and to ride free when they don't see one. In local transit (especially trams, and more and more regional trains) you don't have a regular conductor in every train anymore, but just ticket checking teams, which go around the city. Obviously they can only cover a small part of the available transit vehicles.

    This is most likely the reason why the operators introduced this timer, so that it's visible for the conductor if you have bought the ticket just right now or more than 2 minutes ago.






    share|improve this answer


















    • 2





      Don't you need to scan the QR code like any other paper tickets? That timer seems a pretty bad solution against fraud... It same as buying the ticket and waiting for the operator to punch it.

      – Alexis_FR_JP
      May 5 at 2:08






    • 19





      @Alexis_FR_JP a hacked version of the DB app forcing the timer to always show 02:00 is probably available somewhere already. Its a security theater.

      – JonathanReez
      May 5 at 2:12






    • 6





      @JonathanReez This is not at all security theatre; see my answer below for why.

      – Curt J. Sampson
      2 days ago






    • 5





      So do even more "clever" people try to see the ticket checker coming, quickly buy the ticket, and then stall for a little bit until the two minute timer runs out? If you spend a little bit of time arguing with the ticket checker, then a bit of time fumbling for your phone, you could probably waste two minutes.

      – Zach Lipton
      2 days ago






    • 7





      @xji: Also, if the timer show 45 seconds, and you only entered the tram 30 seconds ago, that is fine. You don't have to stand outside for two minutes before you are allowed to enter. You just need to have the ticket bought before you enter.

      – Jörg W Mittag
      2 days ago















    95














    According to this link (only in German), it is to check if you have bought the ticket just right now or a sufficient amount of time before. The rules usually are, that you have to buy a ticket before you get on the train. Now, with mobile tickets, some "clever" people thought, they just need to buy a ticket when they see the conductor, and to ride free when they don't see one. In local transit (especially trams, and more and more regional trains) you don't have a regular conductor in every train anymore, but just ticket checking teams, which go around the city. Obviously they can only cover a small part of the available transit vehicles.

    This is most likely the reason why the operators introduced this timer, so that it's visible for the conductor if you have bought the ticket just right now or more than 2 minutes ago.






    share|improve this answer


















    • 2





      Don't you need to scan the QR code like any other paper tickets? That timer seems a pretty bad solution against fraud... It same as buying the ticket and waiting for the operator to punch it.

      – Alexis_FR_JP
      May 5 at 2:08






    • 19





      @Alexis_FR_JP a hacked version of the DB app forcing the timer to always show 02:00 is probably available somewhere already. Its a security theater.

      – JonathanReez
      May 5 at 2:12






    • 6





      @JonathanReez This is not at all security theatre; see my answer below for why.

      – Curt J. Sampson
      2 days ago






    • 5





      So do even more "clever" people try to see the ticket checker coming, quickly buy the ticket, and then stall for a little bit until the two minute timer runs out? If you spend a little bit of time arguing with the ticket checker, then a bit of time fumbling for your phone, you could probably waste two minutes.

      – Zach Lipton
      2 days ago






    • 7





      @xji: Also, if the timer show 45 seconds, and you only entered the tram 30 seconds ago, that is fine. You don't have to stand outside for two minutes before you are allowed to enter. You just need to have the ticket bought before you enter.

      – Jörg W Mittag
      2 days ago













    95












    95








    95







    According to this link (only in German), it is to check if you have bought the ticket just right now or a sufficient amount of time before. The rules usually are, that you have to buy a ticket before you get on the train. Now, with mobile tickets, some "clever" people thought, they just need to buy a ticket when they see the conductor, and to ride free when they don't see one. In local transit (especially trams, and more and more regional trains) you don't have a regular conductor in every train anymore, but just ticket checking teams, which go around the city. Obviously they can only cover a small part of the available transit vehicles.

    This is most likely the reason why the operators introduced this timer, so that it's visible for the conductor if you have bought the ticket just right now or more than 2 minutes ago.






    share|improve this answer













    According to this link (only in German), it is to check if you have bought the ticket just right now or a sufficient amount of time before. The rules usually are, that you have to buy a ticket before you get on the train. Now, with mobile tickets, some "clever" people thought, they just need to buy a ticket when they see the conductor, and to ride free when they don't see one. In local transit (especially trams, and more and more regional trains) you don't have a regular conductor in every train anymore, but just ticket checking teams, which go around the city. Obviously they can only cover a small part of the available transit vehicles.

    This is most likely the reason why the operators introduced this timer, so that it's visible for the conductor if you have bought the ticket just right now or more than 2 minutes ago.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered May 4 at 20:32









    dunnidunni

    4,35111522




    4,35111522







    • 2





      Don't you need to scan the QR code like any other paper tickets? That timer seems a pretty bad solution against fraud... It same as buying the ticket and waiting for the operator to punch it.

      – Alexis_FR_JP
      May 5 at 2:08






    • 19





      @Alexis_FR_JP a hacked version of the DB app forcing the timer to always show 02:00 is probably available somewhere already. Its a security theater.

      – JonathanReez
      May 5 at 2:12






    • 6





      @JonathanReez This is not at all security theatre; see my answer below for why.

      – Curt J. Sampson
      2 days ago






    • 5





      So do even more "clever" people try to see the ticket checker coming, quickly buy the ticket, and then stall for a little bit until the two minute timer runs out? If you spend a little bit of time arguing with the ticket checker, then a bit of time fumbling for your phone, you could probably waste two minutes.

      – Zach Lipton
      2 days ago






    • 7





      @xji: Also, if the timer show 45 seconds, and you only entered the tram 30 seconds ago, that is fine. You don't have to stand outside for two minutes before you are allowed to enter. You just need to have the ticket bought before you enter.

      – Jörg W Mittag
      2 days ago












    • 2





      Don't you need to scan the QR code like any other paper tickets? That timer seems a pretty bad solution against fraud... It same as buying the ticket and waiting for the operator to punch it.

      – Alexis_FR_JP
      May 5 at 2:08






    • 19





      @Alexis_FR_JP a hacked version of the DB app forcing the timer to always show 02:00 is probably available somewhere already. Its a security theater.

      – JonathanReez
      May 5 at 2:12






    • 6





      @JonathanReez This is not at all security theatre; see my answer below for why.

      – Curt J. Sampson
      2 days ago






    • 5





      So do even more "clever" people try to see the ticket checker coming, quickly buy the ticket, and then stall for a little bit until the two minute timer runs out? If you spend a little bit of time arguing with the ticket checker, then a bit of time fumbling for your phone, you could probably waste two minutes.

      – Zach Lipton
      2 days ago






    • 7





      @xji: Also, if the timer show 45 seconds, and you only entered the tram 30 seconds ago, that is fine. You don't have to stand outside for two minutes before you are allowed to enter. You just need to have the ticket bought before you enter.

      – Jörg W Mittag
      2 days ago







    2




    2





    Don't you need to scan the QR code like any other paper tickets? That timer seems a pretty bad solution against fraud... It same as buying the ticket and waiting for the operator to punch it.

    – Alexis_FR_JP
    May 5 at 2:08





    Don't you need to scan the QR code like any other paper tickets? That timer seems a pretty bad solution against fraud... It same as buying the ticket and waiting for the operator to punch it.

    – Alexis_FR_JP
    May 5 at 2:08




    19




    19





    @Alexis_FR_JP a hacked version of the DB app forcing the timer to always show 02:00 is probably available somewhere already. Its a security theater.

    – JonathanReez
    May 5 at 2:12





    @Alexis_FR_JP a hacked version of the DB app forcing the timer to always show 02:00 is probably available somewhere already. Its a security theater.

    – JonathanReez
    May 5 at 2:12




    6




    6





    @JonathanReez This is not at all security theatre; see my answer below for why.

    – Curt J. Sampson
    2 days ago





    @JonathanReez This is not at all security theatre; see my answer below for why.

    – Curt J. Sampson
    2 days ago




    5




    5





    So do even more "clever" people try to see the ticket checker coming, quickly buy the ticket, and then stall for a little bit until the two minute timer runs out? If you spend a little bit of time arguing with the ticket checker, then a bit of time fumbling for your phone, you could probably waste two minutes.

    – Zach Lipton
    2 days ago





    So do even more "clever" people try to see the ticket checker coming, quickly buy the ticket, and then stall for a little bit until the two minute timer runs out? If you spend a little bit of time arguing with the ticket checker, then a bit of time fumbling for your phone, you could probably waste two minutes.

    – Zach Lipton
    2 days ago




    7




    7





    @xji: Also, if the timer show 45 seconds, and you only entered the tram 30 seconds ago, that is fine. You don't have to stand outside for two minutes before you are allowed to enter. You just need to have the ticket bought before you enter.

    – Jörg W Mittag
    2 days ago





    @xji: Also, if the timer show 45 seconds, and you only entered the tram 30 seconds ago, that is fine. You don't have to stand outside for two minutes before you are allowed to enter. You just need to have the ticket bought before you enter.

    – Jörg W Mittag
    2 days ago













    44














    @dunni's answer describes the attack that this security measure attempts to mitgate. A comment on his answer claims that this is "security theatre"; I describe in this answer (because this explanation is too long to fit into a comment) why it is not.



    Most security measures cannot completely prevent attacks. An effective security measure is one that increases the cost to the attacker significantly while not also increasing costs to the defender beyond reasonable economic return.



    This is why spot checks for tickets work though they sometimes allow people to travel for free: though an attacker can simply not buy a ticket and stand a chance of gaining free travel, if the penalty when this is discovered is high enough most potential attackers will choose to buy a ticket rather than run the risk of paying the fine or suffering other punishment



    In this case, there are two requirements for an attacker:
    1. Write or obtain a version of the app in appears to be the official one and which displays the same result as if the user had purchased the ticket well before the conductor arrived to check it.
    2. Side-load this app, since Deutsche Bahn can fairly easily ensure that one appearing in the official store is easily taken down.



    Writing such an app is significantly difficult; it involves not only having the skill to duplicate the app itself, but also overcoming any security measures protecting the original app (such as being able to extract any necessary keys from it necessary to instruct the DB servers to purchase a ticket).



    Of course, once even one person writes such an app, it could be shared with others incapable of doing so. But finding such an app once it's written is also not completely trivial; DB also may have the ability, even if it's not on the official store, to get it taken down through legal means. If they can't do that, they can also easily change how their app works (different security keys, different network protocols, different display) to require the app's author to update it.



    Even should the app be easily available, the user still needs to be sophisticated enough to side-load the app (since it won't be available from the official app store) and must also be willing to run the personal security risk that the app author is malicious and actually wrote the app to attack the users who download it, rather than DB.



    All of the above combine to make a fairly high cost to the attacker, whereas for DB to add the timer to their existing app is very little work. Spending a few days of developer and tester time to add this feature to the application thus probably pays itself off very easily even if it prevents only 50% of the potential attackers from executing the attack (though it probably prevents a far higher percentage).



    The reason something like American TSA security checks qualify as security theatre is because they impose very large costs on the defenders for very little gain against attackers. These checks exist because the costs are mainly borne by people who can do little about it (airlines and their passengers) whereas the benefits (looking like you're doing something about a problem) accrue only to some government and elected officials who suffer little of the overall cost.






    share|improve this answer










    New contributor



    Curt J. Sampson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.














    • 11





      Or perhaps there is already a timestamp and the timer is just for the convenience of the user?

      – JonathanReez
      2 days ago






    • 15





      Isn’t all you need a screenshot of the ticket from the legitimate application, and to draw a new timer box over it? I don’t see why the application would need to talk to the DB servers at all, from what’s presented here.

      – Michael Homer
      2 days ago






    • 14





      If the timer reached 2 minutes, it starts blinking. Forgot to mention this in my answer. So a screenshot will not work.

      – dunni
      2 days ago






    • 9





      Finally, the Barcode reveals if a ticket is just a minute old, and no further information is necessary. Having no valid paper ticket already leads to long discussions. Now, imagine the discussion when the passenger has a technically valid ticket, and the conductor insists it was bought just a minute ago. The timer ends this immediately. I also guess that most passengers would not use any fraud app - but would try to buy a ticket when they spot the conductor.

      – sweber
      2 days ago






    • 8





      It's admittedly tricky to re-write the whole app. It's not tricky to put a graphical element on the screen showing "2:00".

      – theonlygusti
      2 days ago
















    44














    @dunni's answer describes the attack that this security measure attempts to mitgate. A comment on his answer claims that this is "security theatre"; I describe in this answer (because this explanation is too long to fit into a comment) why it is not.



    Most security measures cannot completely prevent attacks. An effective security measure is one that increases the cost to the attacker significantly while not also increasing costs to the defender beyond reasonable economic return.



    This is why spot checks for tickets work though they sometimes allow people to travel for free: though an attacker can simply not buy a ticket and stand a chance of gaining free travel, if the penalty when this is discovered is high enough most potential attackers will choose to buy a ticket rather than run the risk of paying the fine or suffering other punishment



    In this case, there are two requirements for an attacker:
    1. Write or obtain a version of the app in appears to be the official one and which displays the same result as if the user had purchased the ticket well before the conductor arrived to check it.
    2. Side-load this app, since Deutsche Bahn can fairly easily ensure that one appearing in the official store is easily taken down.



    Writing such an app is significantly difficult; it involves not only having the skill to duplicate the app itself, but also overcoming any security measures protecting the original app (such as being able to extract any necessary keys from it necessary to instruct the DB servers to purchase a ticket).



    Of course, once even one person writes such an app, it could be shared with others incapable of doing so. But finding such an app once it's written is also not completely trivial; DB also may have the ability, even if it's not on the official store, to get it taken down through legal means. If they can't do that, they can also easily change how their app works (different security keys, different network protocols, different display) to require the app's author to update it.



    Even should the app be easily available, the user still needs to be sophisticated enough to side-load the app (since it won't be available from the official app store) and must also be willing to run the personal security risk that the app author is malicious and actually wrote the app to attack the users who download it, rather than DB.



    All of the above combine to make a fairly high cost to the attacker, whereas for DB to add the timer to their existing app is very little work. Spending a few days of developer and tester time to add this feature to the application thus probably pays itself off very easily even if it prevents only 50% of the potential attackers from executing the attack (though it probably prevents a far higher percentage).



    The reason something like American TSA security checks qualify as security theatre is because they impose very large costs on the defenders for very little gain against attackers. These checks exist because the costs are mainly borne by people who can do little about it (airlines and their passengers) whereas the benefits (looking like you're doing something about a problem) accrue only to some government and elected officials who suffer little of the overall cost.






    share|improve this answer










    New contributor



    Curt J. Sampson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.














    • 11





      Or perhaps there is already a timestamp and the timer is just for the convenience of the user?

      – JonathanReez
      2 days ago






    • 15





      Isn’t all you need a screenshot of the ticket from the legitimate application, and to draw a new timer box over it? I don’t see why the application would need to talk to the DB servers at all, from what’s presented here.

      – Michael Homer
      2 days ago






    • 14





      If the timer reached 2 minutes, it starts blinking. Forgot to mention this in my answer. So a screenshot will not work.

      – dunni
      2 days ago






    • 9





      Finally, the Barcode reveals if a ticket is just a minute old, and no further information is necessary. Having no valid paper ticket already leads to long discussions. Now, imagine the discussion when the passenger has a technically valid ticket, and the conductor insists it was bought just a minute ago. The timer ends this immediately. I also guess that most passengers would not use any fraud app - but would try to buy a ticket when they spot the conductor.

      – sweber
      2 days ago






    • 8





      It's admittedly tricky to re-write the whole app. It's not tricky to put a graphical element on the screen showing "2:00".

      – theonlygusti
      2 days ago














    44












    44








    44







    @dunni's answer describes the attack that this security measure attempts to mitgate. A comment on his answer claims that this is "security theatre"; I describe in this answer (because this explanation is too long to fit into a comment) why it is not.



    Most security measures cannot completely prevent attacks. An effective security measure is one that increases the cost to the attacker significantly while not also increasing costs to the defender beyond reasonable economic return.



    This is why spot checks for tickets work though they sometimes allow people to travel for free: though an attacker can simply not buy a ticket and stand a chance of gaining free travel, if the penalty when this is discovered is high enough most potential attackers will choose to buy a ticket rather than run the risk of paying the fine or suffering other punishment



    In this case, there are two requirements for an attacker:
    1. Write or obtain a version of the app in appears to be the official one and which displays the same result as if the user had purchased the ticket well before the conductor arrived to check it.
    2. Side-load this app, since Deutsche Bahn can fairly easily ensure that one appearing in the official store is easily taken down.



    Writing such an app is significantly difficult; it involves not only having the skill to duplicate the app itself, but also overcoming any security measures protecting the original app (such as being able to extract any necessary keys from it necessary to instruct the DB servers to purchase a ticket).



    Of course, once even one person writes such an app, it could be shared with others incapable of doing so. But finding such an app once it's written is also not completely trivial; DB also may have the ability, even if it's not on the official store, to get it taken down through legal means. If they can't do that, they can also easily change how their app works (different security keys, different network protocols, different display) to require the app's author to update it.



    Even should the app be easily available, the user still needs to be sophisticated enough to side-load the app (since it won't be available from the official app store) and must also be willing to run the personal security risk that the app author is malicious and actually wrote the app to attack the users who download it, rather than DB.



    All of the above combine to make a fairly high cost to the attacker, whereas for DB to add the timer to their existing app is very little work. Spending a few days of developer and tester time to add this feature to the application thus probably pays itself off very easily even if it prevents only 50% of the potential attackers from executing the attack (though it probably prevents a far higher percentage).



    The reason something like American TSA security checks qualify as security theatre is because they impose very large costs on the defenders for very little gain against attackers. These checks exist because the costs are mainly borne by people who can do little about it (airlines and their passengers) whereas the benefits (looking like you're doing something about a problem) accrue only to some government and elected officials who suffer little of the overall cost.






    share|improve this answer










    New contributor



    Curt J. Sampson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.









    @dunni's answer describes the attack that this security measure attempts to mitgate. A comment on his answer claims that this is "security theatre"; I describe in this answer (because this explanation is too long to fit into a comment) why it is not.



    Most security measures cannot completely prevent attacks. An effective security measure is one that increases the cost to the attacker significantly while not also increasing costs to the defender beyond reasonable economic return.



    This is why spot checks for tickets work though they sometimes allow people to travel for free: though an attacker can simply not buy a ticket and stand a chance of gaining free travel, if the penalty when this is discovered is high enough most potential attackers will choose to buy a ticket rather than run the risk of paying the fine or suffering other punishment



    In this case, there are two requirements for an attacker:
    1. Write or obtain a version of the app in appears to be the official one and which displays the same result as if the user had purchased the ticket well before the conductor arrived to check it.
    2. Side-load this app, since Deutsche Bahn can fairly easily ensure that one appearing in the official store is easily taken down.



    Writing such an app is significantly difficult; it involves not only having the skill to duplicate the app itself, but also overcoming any security measures protecting the original app (such as being able to extract any necessary keys from it necessary to instruct the DB servers to purchase a ticket).



    Of course, once even one person writes such an app, it could be shared with others incapable of doing so. But finding such an app once it's written is also not completely trivial; DB also may have the ability, even if it's not on the official store, to get it taken down through legal means. If they can't do that, they can also easily change how their app works (different security keys, different network protocols, different display) to require the app's author to update it.



    Even should the app be easily available, the user still needs to be sophisticated enough to side-load the app (since it won't be available from the official app store) and must also be willing to run the personal security risk that the app author is malicious and actually wrote the app to attack the users who download it, rather than DB.



    All of the above combine to make a fairly high cost to the attacker, whereas for DB to add the timer to their existing app is very little work. Spending a few days of developer and tester time to add this feature to the application thus probably pays itself off very easily even if it prevents only 50% of the potential attackers from executing the attack (though it probably prevents a far higher percentage).



    The reason something like American TSA security checks qualify as security theatre is because they impose very large costs on the defenders for very little gain against attackers. These checks exist because the costs are mainly borne by people who can do little about it (airlines and their passengers) whereas the benefits (looking like you're doing something about a problem) accrue only to some government and elected officials who suffer little of the overall cost.







    share|improve this answer










    New contributor



    Curt J. Sampson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.








    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 2 days ago





















    New contributor



    Curt J. Sampson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.








    answered 2 days ago









    Curt J. SampsonCurt J. Sampson

    53116




    53116




    New contributor



    Curt J. Sampson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.




    New contributor




    Curt J. Sampson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.









    • 11





      Or perhaps there is already a timestamp and the timer is just for the convenience of the user?

      – JonathanReez
      2 days ago






    • 15





      Isn’t all you need a screenshot of the ticket from the legitimate application, and to draw a new timer box over it? I don’t see why the application would need to talk to the DB servers at all, from what’s presented here.

      – Michael Homer
      2 days ago






    • 14





      If the timer reached 2 minutes, it starts blinking. Forgot to mention this in my answer. So a screenshot will not work.

      – dunni
      2 days ago






    • 9





      Finally, the Barcode reveals if a ticket is just a minute old, and no further information is necessary. Having no valid paper ticket already leads to long discussions. Now, imagine the discussion when the passenger has a technically valid ticket, and the conductor insists it was bought just a minute ago. The timer ends this immediately. I also guess that most passengers would not use any fraud app - but would try to buy a ticket when they spot the conductor.

      – sweber
      2 days ago






    • 8





      It's admittedly tricky to re-write the whole app. It's not tricky to put a graphical element on the screen showing "2:00".

      – theonlygusti
      2 days ago













    • 11





      Or perhaps there is already a timestamp and the timer is just for the convenience of the user?

      – JonathanReez
      2 days ago






    • 15





      Isn’t all you need a screenshot of the ticket from the legitimate application, and to draw a new timer box over it? I don’t see why the application would need to talk to the DB servers at all, from what’s presented here.

      – Michael Homer
      2 days ago






    • 14





      If the timer reached 2 minutes, it starts blinking. Forgot to mention this in my answer. So a screenshot will not work.

      – dunni
      2 days ago






    • 9





      Finally, the Barcode reveals if a ticket is just a minute old, and no further information is necessary. Having no valid paper ticket already leads to long discussions. Now, imagine the discussion when the passenger has a technically valid ticket, and the conductor insists it was bought just a minute ago. The timer ends this immediately. I also guess that most passengers would not use any fraud app - but would try to buy a ticket when they spot the conductor.

      – sweber
      2 days ago






    • 8





      It's admittedly tricky to re-write the whole app. It's not tricky to put a graphical element on the screen showing "2:00".

      – theonlygusti
      2 days ago








    11




    11





    Or perhaps there is already a timestamp and the timer is just for the convenience of the user?

    – JonathanReez
    2 days ago





    Or perhaps there is already a timestamp and the timer is just for the convenience of the user?

    – JonathanReez
    2 days ago




    15




    15





    Isn’t all you need a screenshot of the ticket from the legitimate application, and to draw a new timer box over it? I don’t see why the application would need to talk to the DB servers at all, from what’s presented here.

    – Michael Homer
    2 days ago





    Isn’t all you need a screenshot of the ticket from the legitimate application, and to draw a new timer box over it? I don’t see why the application would need to talk to the DB servers at all, from what’s presented here.

    – Michael Homer
    2 days ago




    14




    14





    If the timer reached 2 minutes, it starts blinking. Forgot to mention this in my answer. So a screenshot will not work.

    – dunni
    2 days ago





    If the timer reached 2 minutes, it starts blinking. Forgot to mention this in my answer. So a screenshot will not work.

    – dunni
    2 days ago




    9




    9





    Finally, the Barcode reveals if a ticket is just a minute old, and no further information is necessary. Having no valid paper ticket already leads to long discussions. Now, imagine the discussion when the passenger has a technically valid ticket, and the conductor insists it was bought just a minute ago. The timer ends this immediately. I also guess that most passengers would not use any fraud app - but would try to buy a ticket when they spot the conductor.

    – sweber
    2 days ago





    Finally, the Barcode reveals if a ticket is just a minute old, and no further information is necessary. Having no valid paper ticket already leads to long discussions. Now, imagine the discussion when the passenger has a technically valid ticket, and the conductor insists it was bought just a minute ago. The timer ends this immediately. I also guess that most passengers would not use any fraud app - but would try to buy a ticket when they spot the conductor.

    – sweber
    2 days ago




    8




    8





    It's admittedly tricky to re-write the whole app. It's not tricky to put a graphical element on the screen showing "2:00".

    – theonlygusti
    2 days ago






    It's admittedly tricky to re-write the whole app. It's not tricky to put a graphical element on the screen showing "2:00".

    – theonlygusti
    2 days ago












    29














    There is already a good answer: It provides an additional quick visual indicator in case the passenger bought the ticket only after entering the vehicle and spotting the conductor.



    But let's add some more context.



    Ticket controls do not usually pay for themselves with fines. Ticket controls are paid for by getting more people to buy tickets. The goal of ticket controls is not to catch passengers who cheat, it's to encourage passengers to buy valid tickets.



    There are plenty of ways to circumvent the timer, starting with "My phone just crashed, the reboot will be done in a minute", and ending with software that creates a forged ticket. But I speculate that the app creators speculated that the timer reminds potential cheaters that purchase time is relevant. That would encourage those people to buy valid tickets.




    To address comments to the other answers, which raised the legitimate concern of forged tickets defeating the timer: Purchase time stays relevant even if one of multiple mechanisms that show purchase time is defeated. And being caught with a forged ticket can be way more inconvenient than being caught without a ticket.






    share|improve this answer




















    • 1





      This more directly and clearly explains one of the key points I was trying to make in my answer. Excellent answer!

      – Curt J. Sampson
      2 days ago






    • 2





      "It keeps honest people honest" is most likely the best reason behind all these security features. Any software security developed by humans can be defeated by other humans, given enough time & incentive. Increasing the difficulty of defeating the system keeps more people honest.

      – FreeMan
      yesterday











    • Just like the old saying - locks don't stop thieves, they stop honest people

      – llama
      yesterday






    • 3





      @llama With the very important caveat that, absent locks and any credible threat of being caught, an unfortunate number of honest people would act in a dishonest way.

      – J...
      14 hours ago















    29














    There is already a good answer: It provides an additional quick visual indicator in case the passenger bought the ticket only after entering the vehicle and spotting the conductor.



    But let's add some more context.



    Ticket controls do not usually pay for themselves with fines. Ticket controls are paid for by getting more people to buy tickets. The goal of ticket controls is not to catch passengers who cheat, it's to encourage passengers to buy valid tickets.



    There are plenty of ways to circumvent the timer, starting with "My phone just crashed, the reboot will be done in a minute", and ending with software that creates a forged ticket. But I speculate that the app creators speculated that the timer reminds potential cheaters that purchase time is relevant. That would encourage those people to buy valid tickets.




    To address comments to the other answers, which raised the legitimate concern of forged tickets defeating the timer: Purchase time stays relevant even if one of multiple mechanisms that show purchase time is defeated. And being caught with a forged ticket can be way more inconvenient than being caught without a ticket.






    share|improve this answer




















    • 1





      This more directly and clearly explains one of the key points I was trying to make in my answer. Excellent answer!

      – Curt J. Sampson
      2 days ago






    • 2





      "It keeps honest people honest" is most likely the best reason behind all these security features. Any software security developed by humans can be defeated by other humans, given enough time & incentive. Increasing the difficulty of defeating the system keeps more people honest.

      – FreeMan
      yesterday











    • Just like the old saying - locks don't stop thieves, they stop honest people

      – llama
      yesterday






    • 3





      @llama With the very important caveat that, absent locks and any credible threat of being caught, an unfortunate number of honest people would act in a dishonest way.

      – J...
      14 hours ago













    29












    29








    29







    There is already a good answer: It provides an additional quick visual indicator in case the passenger bought the ticket only after entering the vehicle and spotting the conductor.



    But let's add some more context.



    Ticket controls do not usually pay for themselves with fines. Ticket controls are paid for by getting more people to buy tickets. The goal of ticket controls is not to catch passengers who cheat, it's to encourage passengers to buy valid tickets.



    There are plenty of ways to circumvent the timer, starting with "My phone just crashed, the reboot will be done in a minute", and ending with software that creates a forged ticket. But I speculate that the app creators speculated that the timer reminds potential cheaters that purchase time is relevant. That would encourage those people to buy valid tickets.




    To address comments to the other answers, which raised the legitimate concern of forged tickets defeating the timer: Purchase time stays relevant even if one of multiple mechanisms that show purchase time is defeated. And being caught with a forged ticket can be way more inconvenient than being caught without a ticket.






    share|improve this answer















    There is already a good answer: It provides an additional quick visual indicator in case the passenger bought the ticket only after entering the vehicle and spotting the conductor.



    But let's add some more context.



    Ticket controls do not usually pay for themselves with fines. Ticket controls are paid for by getting more people to buy tickets. The goal of ticket controls is not to catch passengers who cheat, it's to encourage passengers to buy valid tickets.



    There are plenty of ways to circumvent the timer, starting with "My phone just crashed, the reboot will be done in a minute", and ending with software that creates a forged ticket. But I speculate that the app creators speculated that the timer reminds potential cheaters that purchase time is relevant. That would encourage those people to buy valid tickets.




    To address comments to the other answers, which raised the legitimate concern of forged tickets defeating the timer: Purchase time stays relevant even if one of multiple mechanisms that show purchase time is defeated. And being caught with a forged ticket can be way more inconvenient than being caught without a ticket.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 2 days ago

























    answered 2 days ago









    PeterPeter

    1,143512




    1,143512







    • 1





      This more directly and clearly explains one of the key points I was trying to make in my answer. Excellent answer!

      – Curt J. Sampson
      2 days ago






    • 2





      "It keeps honest people honest" is most likely the best reason behind all these security features. Any software security developed by humans can be defeated by other humans, given enough time & incentive. Increasing the difficulty of defeating the system keeps more people honest.

      – FreeMan
      yesterday











    • Just like the old saying - locks don't stop thieves, they stop honest people

      – llama
      yesterday






    • 3





      @llama With the very important caveat that, absent locks and any credible threat of being caught, an unfortunate number of honest people would act in a dishonest way.

      – J...
      14 hours ago












    • 1





      This more directly and clearly explains one of the key points I was trying to make in my answer. Excellent answer!

      – Curt J. Sampson
      2 days ago






    • 2





      "It keeps honest people honest" is most likely the best reason behind all these security features. Any software security developed by humans can be defeated by other humans, given enough time & incentive. Increasing the difficulty of defeating the system keeps more people honest.

      – FreeMan
      yesterday











    • Just like the old saying - locks don't stop thieves, they stop honest people

      – llama
      yesterday






    • 3





      @llama With the very important caveat that, absent locks and any credible threat of being caught, an unfortunate number of honest people would act in a dishonest way.

      – J...
      14 hours ago







    1




    1





    This more directly and clearly explains one of the key points I was trying to make in my answer. Excellent answer!

    – Curt J. Sampson
    2 days ago





    This more directly and clearly explains one of the key points I was trying to make in my answer. Excellent answer!

    – Curt J. Sampson
    2 days ago




    2




    2





    "It keeps honest people honest" is most likely the best reason behind all these security features. Any software security developed by humans can be defeated by other humans, given enough time & incentive. Increasing the difficulty of defeating the system keeps more people honest.

    – FreeMan
    yesterday





    "It keeps honest people honest" is most likely the best reason behind all these security features. Any software security developed by humans can be defeated by other humans, given enough time & incentive. Increasing the difficulty of defeating the system keeps more people honest.

    – FreeMan
    yesterday













    Just like the old saying - locks don't stop thieves, they stop honest people

    – llama
    yesterday





    Just like the old saying - locks don't stop thieves, they stop honest people

    – llama
    yesterday




    3




    3





    @llama With the very important caveat that, absent locks and any credible threat of being caught, an unfortunate number of honest people would act in a dishonest way.

    – J...
    14 hours ago





    @llama With the very important caveat that, absent locks and any credible threat of being caught, an unfortunate number of honest people would act in a dishonest way.

    – J...
    14 hours ago











    1














    This is all about a ticketing system called Proof of Payment.



    Historically, conductors walked every train and checked every passenger, selling them a ticket if needed. However, this was expensive to staff, so they looked at ways to automate this.



    They came up with a modified "honor system" where people would buy tickets, and carry proof of this. Then, random checks would occur, with expensive fines for violators.



    • In the first cut of this, tickets were sold at machines at stations. The station would put a timestamp on the ticket, and it was only valid for a limited time (so you couldn't use the same ticket over and over and over).

    • You couldn't buy tickets on the train, or else people would simply linger at the ticket machine and buy a ticket if they saw a fare inspector.

    • Then they offered advance sales (e.g. 10-ride ticket books), but you had to "validate" (put a time-stamp on it) at time of use at the station.

    • When smartphones came along, that brought back the problem of people buying tickets only when they see the inspector coming. It's even worse; on the smart device you could go through all the steps to buy a ticket, and pause at the final "Complete sale" button; and click that as the inspector enters the car.

    So the timer is an attempt to crack that problem. It shows the inspector that the purchaser bought the ticket seconds ago; but more importantly, it shows the purchaser that the the inspector knows that.



    The inspector can already get that information off the barcode; so it's more of a deterrent to the purchaser.






    share|improve this answer



























      1














      This is all about a ticketing system called Proof of Payment.



      Historically, conductors walked every train and checked every passenger, selling them a ticket if needed. However, this was expensive to staff, so they looked at ways to automate this.



      They came up with a modified "honor system" where people would buy tickets, and carry proof of this. Then, random checks would occur, with expensive fines for violators.



      • In the first cut of this, tickets were sold at machines at stations. The station would put a timestamp on the ticket, and it was only valid for a limited time (so you couldn't use the same ticket over and over and over).

      • You couldn't buy tickets on the train, or else people would simply linger at the ticket machine and buy a ticket if they saw a fare inspector.

      • Then they offered advance sales (e.g. 10-ride ticket books), but you had to "validate" (put a time-stamp on it) at time of use at the station.

      • When smartphones came along, that brought back the problem of people buying tickets only when they see the inspector coming. It's even worse; on the smart device you could go through all the steps to buy a ticket, and pause at the final "Complete sale" button; and click that as the inspector enters the car.

      So the timer is an attempt to crack that problem. It shows the inspector that the purchaser bought the ticket seconds ago; but more importantly, it shows the purchaser that the the inspector knows that.



      The inspector can already get that information off the barcode; so it's more of a deterrent to the purchaser.






      share|improve this answer

























        1












        1








        1







        This is all about a ticketing system called Proof of Payment.



        Historically, conductors walked every train and checked every passenger, selling them a ticket if needed. However, this was expensive to staff, so they looked at ways to automate this.



        They came up with a modified "honor system" where people would buy tickets, and carry proof of this. Then, random checks would occur, with expensive fines for violators.



        • In the first cut of this, tickets were sold at machines at stations. The station would put a timestamp on the ticket, and it was only valid for a limited time (so you couldn't use the same ticket over and over and over).

        • You couldn't buy tickets on the train, or else people would simply linger at the ticket machine and buy a ticket if they saw a fare inspector.

        • Then they offered advance sales (e.g. 10-ride ticket books), but you had to "validate" (put a time-stamp on it) at time of use at the station.

        • When smartphones came along, that brought back the problem of people buying tickets only when they see the inspector coming. It's even worse; on the smart device you could go through all the steps to buy a ticket, and pause at the final "Complete sale" button; and click that as the inspector enters the car.

        So the timer is an attempt to crack that problem. It shows the inspector that the purchaser bought the ticket seconds ago; but more importantly, it shows the purchaser that the the inspector knows that.



        The inspector can already get that information off the barcode; so it's more of a deterrent to the purchaser.






        share|improve this answer













        This is all about a ticketing system called Proof of Payment.



        Historically, conductors walked every train and checked every passenger, selling them a ticket if needed. However, this was expensive to staff, so they looked at ways to automate this.



        They came up with a modified "honor system" where people would buy tickets, and carry proof of this. Then, random checks would occur, with expensive fines for violators.



        • In the first cut of this, tickets were sold at machines at stations. The station would put a timestamp on the ticket, and it was only valid for a limited time (so you couldn't use the same ticket over and over and over).

        • You couldn't buy tickets on the train, or else people would simply linger at the ticket machine and buy a ticket if they saw a fare inspector.

        • Then they offered advance sales (e.g. 10-ride ticket books), but you had to "validate" (put a time-stamp on it) at time of use at the station.

        • When smartphones came along, that brought back the problem of people buying tickets only when they see the inspector coming. It's even worse; on the smart device you could go through all the steps to buy a ticket, and pause at the final "Complete sale" button; and click that as the inspector enters the car.

        So the timer is an attempt to crack that problem. It shows the inspector that the purchaser bought the ticket seconds ago; but more importantly, it shows the purchaser that the the inspector knows that.



        The inspector can already get that information off the barcode; so it's more of a deterrent to the purchaser.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 2 hours ago









        HarperHarper

        14k32665




        14k32665



























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