Glitch in AC sine wave interfering with phase cut dimmingMeasure AC Sine Wave amplitude with ADCSuperimposed sine waveeffective voltage of a sine waveWhy is sine wave preferred over other waveforms?TRIAC Dimming Modules - 60Hz Module on 50Hz SupplyModified sine wave inverterWhat's wrong with my sine wave generator?What is a sine wave?sine wave bandpass filter with 741Sine to square wave converter
How to pass a regex when finding a directory path in bash?
Incremental Ranges!
Finding x,y coordinates where y is largest
On the Twin Paradox Again
How can I instantiate a lambda closure type in C++11/14?
Did Darth Vader wear the same suit for 20+ years?
Why is the relationship between frequency and pitch exponential?
Is there any word or phrase for negative bearing?
Sharing one invocation list between multiple events on the same object in C#
Their answer is discrete, mine is continuous. They baited me into the wrong answer. I have a P Exam question
Adding two lambda-functions in C++
Java guess the number
Does the "6 seconds per round" rule apply to speaking/roleplaying during combat situations?
Why is c4 bad when playing the London against a King's Indian?
Whats the next step after commercial fusion reactors?
How is it possible that Gollum speaks Westron?
How can Iron Man's suit withstand this?
What is the purpose of building foundations?
How to make thick Asian sauces?
You've spoiled/damaged the card
Do manufacturers try make their components as close to ideal ones as possible?
How would you say “AKA/as in”?
Smooth switching between 12v batteries, with toggle switch
Why did Hela need Heimdal's sword?
Glitch in AC sine wave interfering with phase cut dimming
Measure AC Sine Wave amplitude with ADCSuperimposed sine waveeffective voltage of a sine waveWhy is sine wave preferred over other waveforms?TRIAC Dimming Modules - 60Hz Module on 50Hz SupplyModified sine wave inverterWhat's wrong with my sine wave generator?What is a sine wave?sine wave bandpass filter with 741Sine to square wave converter
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
$begingroup$
My company installs ZigBee-based phase cut dimmers for bulbs and LEDs (those which support phase cut dimming). Recently, we encountered a site where we faced a flicker issue. The light is slightly flickering. When the same set of LED driver + LED is being tested at our test lab, everything is working fine. This issue seems very site specific.
Site details - Some active construction is still happening at the site. Machinery like stone cutters, drill machines are being used on a continuous basis. It's also possible that the site is being powered by a generator set and not connected to grid at all (I am not sure of this part yet).
Here is the site waveform:
I noticed a repetitive glitch in the AC waveform which could be a reason behind the flicker issue.
AC waveform as seen at our test lab:
This one looks different from the site waveform.
What is causing this distortion at the site? Is there a way I can correct it so that dimmers don't cause any flicker?
ac sine dimming
edited May 27 at 20:52
Peter Mortensen
1,59031422
asked May 27 at 9:38
WhiskeyjackWhiskeyjack
4,57622265
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
My company installs ZigBee-based phase cut dimmers for bulbs and LEDs (those which support phase cut dimming). Recently, we encountered a site where we faced a flicker issue. The light is slightly flickering. When the same set of LED driver + LED is being tested at our test lab, everything is working fine. This issue seems very site specific.
Site details - Some active construction is still happening at the site. Machinery like stone cutters, drill machines are being used on a continuous basis. It's also possible that the site is being powered by a generator set and not connected to grid at all (I am not sure of this part yet).
Here is the site waveform:
I noticed a repetitive glitch in the AC waveform which could be a reason behind the flicker issue.
AC waveform as seen at our test lab:
This one looks different from the site waveform.
What is causing this distortion at the site? Is there a way I can correct it so that dimmers don't cause any flicker?
ac sine dimming
edited May 27 at 20:52
Peter Mortensen
1,59031422
asked May 27 at 9:38
WhiskeyjackWhiskeyjack
4,57622265
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Can you put an LDR or photodiode on channel 2 to see when the light triggers? I think you can use an LED as a photodiode if you're stuck. Check the web. (It's hard to be original these days.)
$endgroup$
– Transistor
May 27 at 22:08
$begingroup$
I'll try it out. Alternatively I can hook up the second channel to LED driver output and monitor the waveforms.
$endgroup$
– Whiskeyjack
May 28 at 3:13
3
$begingroup$
If you think those ripples are bad, check this guy who noticed that his utility company injects 9% 1 kHz ripple on purpose.
$endgroup$
– pipe
May 28 at 8:03
$begingroup$
I am hoping that different ICs in led drivers will have different response to this glitch. I am planning to test a different matching LED driver. I will post an update once I find something.
$endgroup$
– Whiskeyjack
May 28 at 10:07
add a comment |
$begingroup$
My company installs ZigBee-based phase cut dimmers for bulbs and LEDs (those which support phase cut dimming). Recently, we encountered a site where we faced a flicker issue. The light is slightly flickering. When the same set of LED driver + LED is being tested at our test lab, everything is working fine. This issue seems very site specific.
Site details - Some active construction is still happening at the site. Machinery like stone cutters, drill machines are being used on a continuous basis. It's also possible that the site is being powered by a generator set and not connected to grid at all (I am not sure of this part yet).
Here is the site waveform:
I noticed a repetitive glitch in the AC waveform which could be a reason behind the flicker issue.
AC waveform as seen at our test lab:
This one looks different from the site waveform.
What is causing this distortion at the site? Is there a way I can correct it so that dimmers don't cause any flicker?
ac sine dimming
edited May 27 at 20:52
Peter Mortensen
1,59031422
asked May 27 at 9:38
WhiskeyjackWhiskeyjack
4,57622265
$endgroup$
My company installs ZigBee-based phase cut dimmers for bulbs and LEDs (those which support phase cut dimming). Recently, we encountered a site where we faced a flicker issue. The light is slightly flickering. When the same set of LED driver + LED is being tested at our test lab, everything is working fine. This issue seems very site specific.
Site details - Some active construction is still happening at the site. Machinery like stone cutters, drill machines are being used on a continuous basis. It's also possible that the site is being powered by a generator set and not connected to grid at all (I am not sure of this part yet).
Here is the site waveform:
I noticed a repetitive glitch in the AC waveform which could be a reason behind the flicker issue.
AC waveform as seen at our test lab:
This one looks different from the site waveform.
What is causing this distortion at the site? Is there a way I can correct it so that dimmers don't cause any flicker?
ac sine dimming
ac sine dimming
edited May 27 at 20:52
Peter Mortensen
1,59031422
asked May 27 at 9:38
WhiskeyjackWhiskeyjack
4,57622265
edited May 27 at 20:52
Peter Mortensen
1,59031422
asked May 27 at 9:38
WhiskeyjackWhiskeyjack
4,57622265
edited May 27 at 20:52
Peter Mortensen
1,59031422
edited May 27 at 20:52
Peter Mortensen
1,59031422
edited May 27 at 20:52
Peter Mortensen
1,59031422
1,59031422
asked May 27 at 9:38
WhiskeyjackWhiskeyjack
4,57622265
asked May 27 at 9:38
WhiskeyjackWhiskeyjack
4,57622265
asked May 27 at 9:38
WhiskeyjackWhiskeyjack
4,57622265
4,57622265
2
$begingroup$
Can you put an LDR or photodiode on channel 2 to see when the light triggers? I think you can use an LED as a photodiode if you're stuck. Check the web. (It's hard to be original these days.)
$endgroup$
– Transistor
May 27 at 22:08
$begingroup$
I'll try it out. Alternatively I can hook up the second channel to LED driver output and monitor the waveforms.
$endgroup$
– Whiskeyjack
May 28 at 3:13
3
$begingroup$
If you think those ripples are bad, check this guy who noticed that his utility company injects 9% 1 kHz ripple on purpose.
$endgroup$
– pipe
May 28 at 8:03
$begingroup$
I am hoping that different ICs in led drivers will have different response to this glitch. I am planning to test a different matching LED driver. I will post an update once I find something.
$endgroup$
– Whiskeyjack
May 28 at 10:07
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
Can you put an LDR or photodiode on channel 2 to see when the light triggers? I think you can use an LED as a photodiode if you're stuck. Check the web. (It's hard to be original these days.)
$endgroup$
– Transistor
May 27 at 22:08
$begingroup$
I'll try it out. Alternatively I can hook up the second channel to LED driver output and monitor the waveforms.
$endgroup$
– Whiskeyjack
May 28 at 3:13
3
$begingroup$
If you think those ripples are bad, check this guy who noticed that his utility company injects 9% 1 kHz ripple on purpose.
$endgroup$
– pipe
May 28 at 8:03
$begingroup$
I am hoping that different ICs in led drivers will have different response to this glitch. I am planning to test a different matching LED driver. I will post an update once I find something.
$endgroup$
– Whiskeyjack
May 28 at 10:07
2
2
$begingroup$
Can you put an LDR or photodiode on channel 2 to see when the light triggers? I think you can use an LED as a photodiode if you're stuck. Check the web. (It's hard to be original these days.)
$endgroup$
– Transistor
May 27 at 22:08
$begingroup$
Can you put an LDR or photodiode on channel 2 to see when the light triggers? I think you can use an LED as a photodiode if you're stuck. Check the web. (It's hard to be original these days.)
$endgroup$
– Transistor
May 27 at 22:08
$begingroup$
I'll try it out. Alternatively I can hook up the second channel to LED driver output and monitor the waveforms.
$endgroup$
– Whiskeyjack
May 28 at 3:13
$begingroup$
I'll try it out. Alternatively I can hook up the second channel to LED driver output and monitor the waveforms.
$endgroup$
– Whiskeyjack
May 28 at 3:13
3
3
$begingroup$
If you think those ripples are bad, check this guy who noticed that his utility company injects 9% 1 kHz ripple on purpose.
$endgroup$
– pipe
May 28 at 8:03
$begingroup$
If you think those ripples are bad, check this guy who noticed that his utility company injects 9% 1 kHz ripple on purpose.
$endgroup$
– pipe
May 28 at 8:03
$begingroup$
I am hoping that different ICs in led drivers will have different response to this glitch. I am planning to test a different matching LED driver. I will post an update once I find something.
$endgroup$
– Whiskeyjack
May 28 at 10:07
$begingroup$
I am hoping that different ICs in led drivers will have different response to this glitch. I am planning to test a different matching LED driver. I will post an update once I find something.
$endgroup$
– Whiskeyjack
May 28 at 10:07
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
The first waveform looks fine for mains, it can get much worse.
I suggest you use a rent a power corruptor, or use a lab with an operator, to see how vulnerable your dimmer is.
And work with those results to improve the design of the phase angle dimmer.
answered May 27 at 9:49
Jeroen3Jeroen3
12.2k1950
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
TIL about "power corruptors". It's like integration testin, but for hardware. Neat!
$endgroup$
– Alexander
May 28 at 2:19
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The distortion is due to diode rectifiers, phase angle rectifiers. The distortion is not such big that should cause any malfunction. Possibly, the LED power supply misinterprets these false glitches with expected phase angle voltage from the dimmer.
answered May 27 at 9:48
Marko BuršičMarko Buršič
10.8k2812
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Will active PFC in the LED driver lead to the said misinterpretation?
$endgroup$
– Whiskeyjack
May 27 at 9:51
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Flicker: as dimmed, the LEDs have longer dark time than with full light. The light from the fluorescent material decays more. The human eye can well see the flicker, at least if the LED is a little aside from the center of the field of the vision. It has been the same with fluorescent lights and old CRT televisions.
Another thing: If you have another non-linear load which also distorts the voltage waveform and does it in somehow a complex and different way, the summed distortions can produce mixing results in nonlinear components. Some of them can be in the visible frequency range. Without proper spectral analysis this all is only speculation.
edited May 27 at 20:52
Peter Mortensen
1,59031422
answered May 27 at 12:14
user287001user287001
10.1k1618
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
return StackExchange.using("schematics", function ()
StackExchange.schematics.init();
);
, "cicuitlab");
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "135"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2felectronics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f440585%2fglitch-in-ac-sine-wave-interfering-with-phase-cut-dimming%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
The first waveform looks fine for mains, it can get much worse.
I suggest you use a rent a power corruptor, or use a lab with an operator, to see how vulnerable your dimmer is.
And work with those results to improve the design of the phase angle dimmer.
answered May 27 at 9:49
Jeroen3Jeroen3
12.2k1950
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
TIL about "power corruptors". It's like integration testin, but for hardware. Neat!
$endgroup$
– Alexander
May 28 at 2:19
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The first waveform looks fine for mains, it can get much worse.
I suggest you use a rent a power corruptor, or use a lab with an operator, to see how vulnerable your dimmer is.
And work with those results to improve the design of the phase angle dimmer.
answered May 27 at 9:49
Jeroen3Jeroen3
12.2k1950
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
TIL about "power corruptors". It's like integration testin, but for hardware. Neat!
$endgroup$
– Alexander
May 28 at 2:19
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The first waveform looks fine for mains, it can get much worse.
I suggest you use a rent a power corruptor, or use a lab with an operator, to see how vulnerable your dimmer is.
And work with those results to improve the design of the phase angle dimmer.
answered May 27 at 9:49
Jeroen3Jeroen3
12.2k1950
$endgroup$
The first waveform looks fine for mains, it can get much worse.
I suggest you use a rent a power corruptor, or use a lab with an operator, to see how vulnerable your dimmer is.
And work with those results to improve the design of the phase angle dimmer.
answered May 27 at 9:49
Jeroen3Jeroen3
12.2k1950
answered May 27 at 9:49
Jeroen3Jeroen3
12.2k1950
answered May 27 at 9:49
Jeroen3Jeroen3
12.2k1950
answered May 27 at 9:49
Jeroen3Jeroen3
12.2k1950
12.2k1950
1
$begingroup$
TIL about "power corruptors". It's like integration testin, but for hardware. Neat!
$endgroup$
– Alexander
May 28 at 2:19
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
TIL about "power corruptors". It's like integration testin, but for hardware. Neat!
$endgroup$
– Alexander
May 28 at 2:19
1
1
$begingroup$
TIL about "power corruptors". It's like integration testin, but for hardware. Neat!
$endgroup$
– Alexander
May 28 at 2:19
$begingroup$
TIL about "power corruptors". It's like integration testin, but for hardware. Neat!
$endgroup$
– Alexander
May 28 at 2:19
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The distortion is due to diode rectifiers, phase angle rectifiers. The distortion is not such big that should cause any malfunction. Possibly, the LED power supply misinterprets these false glitches with expected phase angle voltage from the dimmer.
answered May 27 at 9:48
Marko BuršičMarko Buršič
10.8k2812
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Will active PFC in the LED driver lead to the said misinterpretation?
$endgroup$
– Whiskeyjack
May 27 at 9:51
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The distortion is due to diode rectifiers, phase angle rectifiers. The distortion is not such big that should cause any malfunction. Possibly, the LED power supply misinterprets these false glitches with expected phase angle voltage from the dimmer.
answered May 27 at 9:48
Marko BuršičMarko Buršič
10.8k2812
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Will active PFC in the LED driver lead to the said misinterpretation?
$endgroup$
– Whiskeyjack
May 27 at 9:51
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The distortion is due to diode rectifiers, phase angle rectifiers. The distortion is not such big that should cause any malfunction. Possibly, the LED power supply misinterprets these false glitches with expected phase angle voltage from the dimmer.
answered May 27 at 9:48
Marko BuršičMarko Buršič
10.8k2812
$endgroup$
The distortion is due to diode rectifiers, phase angle rectifiers. The distortion is not such big that should cause any malfunction. Possibly, the LED power supply misinterprets these false glitches with expected phase angle voltage from the dimmer.
answered May 27 at 9:48
Marko BuršičMarko Buršič
10.8k2812
answered May 27 at 9:48
Marko BuršičMarko Buršič
10.8k2812
answered May 27 at 9:48
Marko BuršičMarko Buršič
10.8k2812
answered May 27 at 9:48
Marko BuršičMarko Buršič
10.8k2812
10.8k2812
$begingroup$
Will active PFC in the LED driver lead to the said misinterpretation?
$endgroup$
– Whiskeyjack
May 27 at 9:51
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Will active PFC in the LED driver lead to the said misinterpretation?
$endgroup$
– Whiskeyjack
May 27 at 9:51
$begingroup$
Will active PFC in the LED driver lead to the said misinterpretation?
$endgroup$
– Whiskeyjack
May 27 at 9:51
$begingroup$
Will active PFC in the LED driver lead to the said misinterpretation?
$endgroup$
– Whiskeyjack
May 27 at 9:51
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Flicker: as dimmed, the LEDs have longer dark time than with full light. The light from the fluorescent material decays more. The human eye can well see the flicker, at least if the LED is a little aside from the center of the field of the vision. It has been the same with fluorescent lights and old CRT televisions.
Another thing: If you have another non-linear load which also distorts the voltage waveform and does it in somehow a complex and different way, the summed distortions can produce mixing results in nonlinear components. Some of them can be in the visible frequency range. Without proper spectral analysis this all is only speculation.
edited May 27 at 20:52
Peter Mortensen
1,59031422
answered May 27 at 12:14
user287001user287001
10.1k1618
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Flicker: as dimmed, the LEDs have longer dark time than with full light. The light from the fluorescent material decays more. The human eye can well see the flicker, at least if the LED is a little aside from the center of the field of the vision. It has been the same with fluorescent lights and old CRT televisions.
Another thing: If you have another non-linear load which also distorts the voltage waveform and does it in somehow a complex and different way, the summed distortions can produce mixing results in nonlinear components. Some of them can be in the visible frequency range. Without proper spectral analysis this all is only speculation.
edited May 27 at 20:52
Peter Mortensen
1,59031422
answered May 27 at 12:14
user287001user287001
10.1k1618
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Flicker: as dimmed, the LEDs have longer dark time than with full light. The light from the fluorescent material decays more. The human eye can well see the flicker, at least if the LED is a little aside from the center of the field of the vision. It has been the same with fluorescent lights and old CRT televisions.
Another thing: If you have another non-linear load which also distorts the voltage waveform and does it in somehow a complex and different way, the summed distortions can produce mixing results in nonlinear components. Some of them can be in the visible frequency range. Without proper spectral analysis this all is only speculation.
edited May 27 at 20:52
Peter Mortensen
1,59031422
answered May 27 at 12:14
user287001user287001
10.1k1618
$endgroup$
Flicker: as dimmed, the LEDs have longer dark time than with full light. The light from the fluorescent material decays more. The human eye can well see the flicker, at least if the LED is a little aside from the center of the field of the vision. It has been the same with fluorescent lights and old CRT televisions.
Another thing: If you have another non-linear load which also distorts the voltage waveform and does it in somehow a complex and different way, the summed distortions can produce mixing results in nonlinear components. Some of them can be in the visible frequency range. Without proper spectral analysis this all is only speculation.
edited May 27 at 20:52
Peter Mortensen
1,59031422
answered May 27 at 12:14
user287001user287001
10.1k1618
edited May 27 at 20:52
Peter Mortensen
1,59031422
edited May 27 at 20:52
Peter Mortensen
1,59031422
edited May 27 at 20:52
Peter Mortensen
1,59031422
1,59031422
answered May 27 at 12:14
user287001user287001
10.1k1618
answered May 27 at 12:14
user287001user287001
10.1k1618
answered May 27 at 12:14
user287001user287001
10.1k1618
10.1k1618
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2felectronics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f440585%2fglitch-in-ac-sine-wave-interfering-with-phase-cut-dimming%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
2
$begingroup$
Can you put an LDR or photodiode on channel 2 to see when the light triggers? I think you can use an LED as a photodiode if you're stuck. Check the web. (It's hard to be original these days.)
$endgroup$
– Transistor
May 27 at 22:08
$begingroup$
I'll try it out. Alternatively I can hook up the second channel to LED driver output and monitor the waveforms.
$endgroup$
– Whiskeyjack
May 28 at 3:13
3
$begingroup$
If you think those ripples are bad, check this guy who noticed that his utility company injects 9% 1 kHz ripple on purpose.
$endgroup$
– pipe
May 28 at 8:03
$begingroup$
I am hoping that different ICs in led drivers will have different response to this glitch. I am planning to test a different matching LED driver. I will post an update once I find something.
$endgroup$
– Whiskeyjack
May 28 at 10:07