What is the problem here (all integers are irrational proof…I think so)?How do we prove $n^n mid m^m Rightarrow n mid m$?Catalan constant is irrational. What is wrong with this proof?The contradiction method used to prove that the square root of a prime is irrationalComplex Exponential False “Proof” That All Integers Are $0$Understanding the proof of “$sqrt2$ is irrational” by contradiction.Prime Factors of the Composit Terms of Arithmetic ProgressionsIs there a quicker proof to show that $2^10^k equiv 7 pmod9$ for all positive integers $k$?Prove the sqrt of 4 is irrational, where did I go wrong?A Proof of the Fundamental Theorem of ArithmeticInteger factors of rational and irrational numbersProof verification: Prove $sqrtn$ is irrational.
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What is the problem here (all integers are irrational proof…I think so)?
How do we prove $n^n mid m^m Rightarrow n mid m$?Catalan constant is irrational. What is wrong with this proof?The contradiction method used to prove that the square root of a prime is irrationalComplex Exponential False “Proof” That All Integers Are $0$Understanding the proof of “$sqrt2$ is irrational” by contradiction.Prime Factors of the Composit Terms of Arithmetic ProgressionsIs there a quicker proof to show that $2^10^k equiv 7 pmod9$ for all positive integers $k$?Prove the sqrt of 4 is irrational, where did I go wrong?A Proof of the Fundamental Theorem of ArithmeticInteger factors of rational and irrational numbersProof verification: Prove $sqrtn$ is irrational.
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
$begingroup$
Let us assume $a$ is an integer which is rational which implies $a=p/q$ (where $p$ and $q$ are integers and $q$ not equal to $0$). If $p$ and $q$ are not coprime, let us simplify the fraction so this it is (I don't know how to talk like mathematicians).
Which implies, $$a=b/c$$ (where $b$ and $c$ are coprime integers). Squaring on both sides,
beginalign
a^2&=b^2/c^2\
a^2c^2&=b^2
endalign
So $a^2$ is a factor of $b^2$, and also of $b$, due to the uniqueness of the fundamental theorem of arithmetic.
So,
beginalign
b &=a^2d tagwhere $d$ is an integer\
b^2 &= a^4d^2
endalign
But $b^2=a^2c^2$ So,
beginalign
a^2c^2 &= a^4d^2\
c^2 &= a^2d^2
endalign
So, $a^2$ is a factor of $c^2$ and $c$ due to the fundamental theorem of arithmetic. So $b$ and $c$ have $a^2$ as a common factor. But this contradicts the fact that $b$ and $c$ are coprime. This is because we have taken $a$ as a rational integer, so $a$ cannot be a rational integer.
What's wrong here (genuinely asking)?
elementary-number-theory fake-proofs
$endgroup$
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
Let us assume $a$ is an integer which is rational which implies $a=p/q$ (where $p$ and $q$ are integers and $q$ not equal to $0$). If $p$ and $q$ are not coprime, let us simplify the fraction so this it is (I don't know how to talk like mathematicians).
Which implies, $$a=b/c$$ (where $b$ and $c$ are coprime integers). Squaring on both sides,
beginalign
a^2&=b^2/c^2\
a^2c^2&=b^2
endalign
So $a^2$ is a factor of $b^2$, and also of $b$, due to the uniqueness of the fundamental theorem of arithmetic.
So,
beginalign
b &=a^2d tagwhere $d$ is an integer\
b^2 &= a^4d^2
endalign
But $b^2=a^2c^2$ So,
beginalign
a^2c^2 &= a^4d^2\
c^2 &= a^2d^2
endalign
So, $a^2$ is a factor of $c^2$ and $c$ due to the fundamental theorem of arithmetic. So $b$ and $c$ have $a^2$ as a common factor. But this contradicts the fact that $b$ and $c$ are coprime. This is because we have taken $a$ as a rational integer, so $a$ cannot be a rational integer.
What's wrong here (genuinely asking)?
elementary-number-theory fake-proofs
$endgroup$
11
$begingroup$
"a^2 is a factor b^2 and b" You are right $a^2$ divides $b^2$, but why would it divide $b$?
$endgroup$
– Wojowu
Jul 7 at 16:06
7
$begingroup$
First error I spotted is that $a^2$ need not be a factor of $b$ just because it is a factor of $b^2$. Indeed, if $a=2$ and $b=2$, then $a^2=4$ is a factor of $b^2=4$ but $a^2=4$ is not a factor of $b=2$.
$endgroup$
– Dave
Jul 7 at 16:06
3
$begingroup$
Also, it is clear that integers are rational because given any integer $a$ we can write $a=fraca1$.
$endgroup$
– Dave
Jul 7 at 16:08
4
$begingroup$
If b and c are coprime, and a=b/c, then what does c have to be?
$endgroup$
– pokep
Jul 7 at 17:33
3
$begingroup$
@Toolazytothinkofaname It is rather simple to spot the error. Substitute the variables by actual integers and find where the proof is wrong.
$endgroup$
– miracle173
Jul 8 at 14:18
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
Let us assume $a$ is an integer which is rational which implies $a=p/q$ (where $p$ and $q$ are integers and $q$ not equal to $0$). If $p$ and $q$ are not coprime, let us simplify the fraction so this it is (I don't know how to talk like mathematicians).
Which implies, $$a=b/c$$ (where $b$ and $c$ are coprime integers). Squaring on both sides,
beginalign
a^2&=b^2/c^2\
a^2c^2&=b^2
endalign
So $a^2$ is a factor of $b^2$, and also of $b$, due to the uniqueness of the fundamental theorem of arithmetic.
So,
beginalign
b &=a^2d tagwhere $d$ is an integer\
b^2 &= a^4d^2
endalign
But $b^2=a^2c^2$ So,
beginalign
a^2c^2 &= a^4d^2\
c^2 &= a^2d^2
endalign
So, $a^2$ is a factor of $c^2$ and $c$ due to the fundamental theorem of arithmetic. So $b$ and $c$ have $a^2$ as a common factor. But this contradicts the fact that $b$ and $c$ are coprime. This is because we have taken $a$ as a rational integer, so $a$ cannot be a rational integer.
What's wrong here (genuinely asking)?
elementary-number-theory fake-proofs
$endgroup$
Let us assume $a$ is an integer which is rational which implies $a=p/q$ (where $p$ and $q$ are integers and $q$ not equal to $0$). If $p$ and $q$ are not coprime, let us simplify the fraction so this it is (I don't know how to talk like mathematicians).
Which implies, $$a=b/c$$ (where $b$ and $c$ are coprime integers). Squaring on both sides,
beginalign
a^2&=b^2/c^2\
a^2c^2&=b^2
endalign
So $a^2$ is a factor of $b^2$, and also of $b$, due to the uniqueness of the fundamental theorem of arithmetic.
So,
beginalign
b &=a^2d tagwhere $d$ is an integer\
b^2 &= a^4d^2
endalign
But $b^2=a^2c^2$ So,
beginalign
a^2c^2 &= a^4d^2\
c^2 &= a^2d^2
endalign
So, $a^2$ is a factor of $c^2$ and $c$ due to the fundamental theorem of arithmetic. So $b$ and $c$ have $a^2$ as a common factor. But this contradicts the fact that $b$ and $c$ are coprime. This is because we have taken $a$ as a rational integer, so $a$ cannot be a rational integer.
What's wrong here (genuinely asking)?
elementary-number-theory fake-proofs
elementary-number-theory fake-proofs
edited Jul 8 at 14:00
Peter Mortensen
5783 silver badges10 bronze badges
5783 silver badges10 bronze badges
asked Jul 7 at 16:02
ToolazytothinkofanameToolazytothinkofaname
362 bronze badges
362 bronze badges
11
$begingroup$
"a^2 is a factor b^2 and b" You are right $a^2$ divides $b^2$, but why would it divide $b$?
$endgroup$
– Wojowu
Jul 7 at 16:06
7
$begingroup$
First error I spotted is that $a^2$ need not be a factor of $b$ just because it is a factor of $b^2$. Indeed, if $a=2$ and $b=2$, then $a^2=4$ is a factor of $b^2=4$ but $a^2=4$ is not a factor of $b=2$.
$endgroup$
– Dave
Jul 7 at 16:06
3
$begingroup$
Also, it is clear that integers are rational because given any integer $a$ we can write $a=fraca1$.
$endgroup$
– Dave
Jul 7 at 16:08
4
$begingroup$
If b and c are coprime, and a=b/c, then what does c have to be?
$endgroup$
– pokep
Jul 7 at 17:33
3
$begingroup$
@Toolazytothinkofaname It is rather simple to spot the error. Substitute the variables by actual integers and find where the proof is wrong.
$endgroup$
– miracle173
Jul 8 at 14:18
|
show 3 more comments
11
$begingroup$
"a^2 is a factor b^2 and b" You are right $a^2$ divides $b^2$, but why would it divide $b$?
$endgroup$
– Wojowu
Jul 7 at 16:06
7
$begingroup$
First error I spotted is that $a^2$ need not be a factor of $b$ just because it is a factor of $b^2$. Indeed, if $a=2$ and $b=2$, then $a^2=4$ is a factor of $b^2=4$ but $a^2=4$ is not a factor of $b=2$.
$endgroup$
– Dave
Jul 7 at 16:06
3
$begingroup$
Also, it is clear that integers are rational because given any integer $a$ we can write $a=fraca1$.
$endgroup$
– Dave
Jul 7 at 16:08
4
$begingroup$
If b and c are coprime, and a=b/c, then what does c have to be?
$endgroup$
– pokep
Jul 7 at 17:33
3
$begingroup$
@Toolazytothinkofaname It is rather simple to spot the error. Substitute the variables by actual integers and find where the proof is wrong.
$endgroup$
– miracle173
Jul 8 at 14:18
11
11
$begingroup$
"a^2 is a factor b^2 and b" You are right $a^2$ divides $b^2$, but why would it divide $b$?
$endgroup$
– Wojowu
Jul 7 at 16:06
$begingroup$
"a^2 is a factor b^2 and b" You are right $a^2$ divides $b^2$, but why would it divide $b$?
$endgroup$
– Wojowu
Jul 7 at 16:06
7
7
$begingroup$
First error I spotted is that $a^2$ need not be a factor of $b$ just because it is a factor of $b^2$. Indeed, if $a=2$ and $b=2$, then $a^2=4$ is a factor of $b^2=4$ but $a^2=4$ is not a factor of $b=2$.
$endgroup$
– Dave
Jul 7 at 16:06
$begingroup$
First error I spotted is that $a^2$ need not be a factor of $b$ just because it is a factor of $b^2$. Indeed, if $a=2$ and $b=2$, then $a^2=4$ is a factor of $b^2=4$ but $a^2=4$ is not a factor of $b=2$.
$endgroup$
– Dave
Jul 7 at 16:06
3
3
$begingroup$
Also, it is clear that integers are rational because given any integer $a$ we can write $a=fraca1$.
$endgroup$
– Dave
Jul 7 at 16:08
$begingroup$
Also, it is clear that integers are rational because given any integer $a$ we can write $a=fraca1$.
$endgroup$
– Dave
Jul 7 at 16:08
4
4
$begingroup$
If b and c are coprime, and a=b/c, then what does c have to be?
$endgroup$
– pokep
Jul 7 at 17:33
$begingroup$
If b and c are coprime, and a=b/c, then what does c have to be?
$endgroup$
– pokep
Jul 7 at 17:33
3
3
$begingroup$
@Toolazytothinkofaname It is rather simple to spot the error. Substitute the variables by actual integers and find where the proof is wrong.
$endgroup$
– miracle173
Jul 8 at 14:18
$begingroup$
@Toolazytothinkofaname It is rather simple to spot the error. Substitute the variables by actual integers and find where the proof is wrong.
$endgroup$
– miracle173
Jul 8 at 14:18
|
show 3 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
The problem in the proof is that $a^2|b^2nRightarrow a^2|b$. For instance, take $a=2$ and $b=6$. Clearly, $4|36$ but $4nmid 6$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think you are confusing that if $p$ is prime and $p$ divides $b^k$ then $p|b$. That is true if $p$ is prime.
Actually it's also true for a composite $a|b^k$ then $a|b$ if $a$ has no square factors. But if $a$ as any prime factors to a power greater than $1$ it need not be true.
And in fact its obviously not true as $a^2$ divides $a^2$ but $a^2$ doesn't divide $a$ (unless $a = 1$).
Read on....
It most certainly is not true if $a|b^k$ that $a|b$ It means that the prime factors of $a$ are prime factors of $b$. And it means that the powers of those prime factors of $a$ are at most equal to $k$ times the powers of the same prime factors of $b$ but because $k$ is larger than .....
Oh let me put it this way.
Suppose $a = prod p_i^m_i$ be the prime factorization of $a$. Suppose $a|b^k$. Then that means that $p_i$ are prime factors of $b$ and that $b = dprod p_i^j_i$. And it means that $b^k = d^k prod p_i^k*j_i$.
And as $a|b^k$ that means each $m_i le k*j_i$. But that does not mean $m_i le j_i$ which would mean $a|b$.
You statement $a|b^k$ means $a|b$ if $a$ has square free and all the prime factor powers were $1$ but not other wise.
Simple example if $a = 12 = 2^2*3$ and $b= 90 = 2*3^2*5$. Now $a|b^2 = 8100 = 2^2*3^4*5^2$.
This means the prime factors of $a$ ($2,3$) are also prime factors of $b$. And it means that the powers of the prime factors of $a$ ($2mapsto 2; 3mapsto 1$) are less or equal to $2$ times the powers in $b$ ($2mapsto 1$ and $2 le 2*1$ and $3mapsto 2$ and $1 le 2*2$) but it doesnt mean the are less than or equal to the powers of $b$. (In $a; 2mapsto 2$ but in $b; 2mapsto 1$ and $2 not le 1$).
So $12 not mid 90$.
It's certainly can't be the case that $a|b implies a^2| b^2 implies a^2|b$! That would mean every time you have $a|b$ you can just keep squaring and reducing to get $a^m|b$ for any power of $m$.
That would mean if $3|6$ then $3^2|6$ and $3^4|6$ and $3^2048|6$ and so on.
Or in this case as $a = b$ (and $c=1$.... because $a$ is an integer) you would have $a|a$ so $a^2|a$? And $a^4|a$. That's .... simply not true.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
No, $,pmid b^k,Rightarrow, pmid b,$ is true $iff p,$ is squarefree. Follow the link for a handful of characterizations of squarefree integers.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
Jul 7 at 17:44
$begingroup$
Why do you say "no"? That is exactly what I said.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Jul 7 at 17:52
$begingroup$
Because the first paragraph was incorrect. Now it is correct after your edit.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
Jul 7 at 17:54
1
$begingroup$
Okay. I used "only" colloquially. My bad. I'm pretty sure the OP was confusing the FTA with Euclid's lemma. So I said that only works if $p$ is prime. Colloquially that doesn't mean $p$ being prime is required and it is false otherwise. It means you can only cite that lemma if $p$ is prime. There are many other ways $a|b^k$ and $a|b$ can both be true but citing Euclid's lemma is usually reserved for $a$ prime. But in math I shouldn't have used the loaded word "only".
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Jul 7 at 18:56
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Basic facts missing $ac=b$ is a lot easier to use. $a^2$ does not need to divide $b$. A fraction sharing no common factor other than 1, between the number on top ( numerator), and the number on the bottom ( denominator), is said to be in lowest terms .
Anyways starting from $a=bover c$ we get $ac=b$ showing c divides b, sharing no factor other than 1, and therefore, $c=1$, implying $a=b$ so $a=aover 1$ it Also can be used to show :$a=-aover -1$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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3 Answers
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$begingroup$
The problem in the proof is that $a^2|b^2nRightarrow a^2|b$. For instance, take $a=2$ and $b=6$. Clearly, $4|36$ but $4nmid 6$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The problem in the proof is that $a^2|b^2nRightarrow a^2|b$. For instance, take $a=2$ and $b=6$. Clearly, $4|36$ but $4nmid 6$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The problem in the proof is that $a^2|b^2nRightarrow a^2|b$. For instance, take $a=2$ and $b=6$. Clearly, $4|36$ but $4nmid 6$.
$endgroup$
The problem in the proof is that $a^2|b^2nRightarrow a^2|b$. For instance, take $a=2$ and $b=6$. Clearly, $4|36$ but $4nmid 6$.
answered Jul 7 at 16:12
AnandAnand
5731 silver badge11 bronze badges
5731 silver badge11 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think you are confusing that if $p$ is prime and $p$ divides $b^k$ then $p|b$. That is true if $p$ is prime.
Actually it's also true for a composite $a|b^k$ then $a|b$ if $a$ has no square factors. But if $a$ as any prime factors to a power greater than $1$ it need not be true.
And in fact its obviously not true as $a^2$ divides $a^2$ but $a^2$ doesn't divide $a$ (unless $a = 1$).
Read on....
It most certainly is not true if $a|b^k$ that $a|b$ It means that the prime factors of $a$ are prime factors of $b$. And it means that the powers of those prime factors of $a$ are at most equal to $k$ times the powers of the same prime factors of $b$ but because $k$ is larger than .....
Oh let me put it this way.
Suppose $a = prod p_i^m_i$ be the prime factorization of $a$. Suppose $a|b^k$. Then that means that $p_i$ are prime factors of $b$ and that $b = dprod p_i^j_i$. And it means that $b^k = d^k prod p_i^k*j_i$.
And as $a|b^k$ that means each $m_i le k*j_i$. But that does not mean $m_i le j_i$ which would mean $a|b$.
You statement $a|b^k$ means $a|b$ if $a$ has square free and all the prime factor powers were $1$ but not other wise.
Simple example if $a = 12 = 2^2*3$ and $b= 90 = 2*3^2*5$. Now $a|b^2 = 8100 = 2^2*3^4*5^2$.
This means the prime factors of $a$ ($2,3$) are also prime factors of $b$. And it means that the powers of the prime factors of $a$ ($2mapsto 2; 3mapsto 1$) are less or equal to $2$ times the powers in $b$ ($2mapsto 1$ and $2 le 2*1$ and $3mapsto 2$ and $1 le 2*2$) but it doesnt mean the are less than or equal to the powers of $b$. (In $a; 2mapsto 2$ but in $b; 2mapsto 1$ and $2 not le 1$).
So $12 not mid 90$.
It's certainly can't be the case that $a|b implies a^2| b^2 implies a^2|b$! That would mean every time you have $a|b$ you can just keep squaring and reducing to get $a^m|b$ for any power of $m$.
That would mean if $3|6$ then $3^2|6$ and $3^4|6$ and $3^2048|6$ and so on.
Or in this case as $a = b$ (and $c=1$.... because $a$ is an integer) you would have $a|a$ so $a^2|a$? And $a^4|a$. That's .... simply not true.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
No, $,pmid b^k,Rightarrow, pmid b,$ is true $iff p,$ is squarefree. Follow the link for a handful of characterizations of squarefree integers.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
Jul 7 at 17:44
$begingroup$
Why do you say "no"? That is exactly what I said.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Jul 7 at 17:52
$begingroup$
Because the first paragraph was incorrect. Now it is correct after your edit.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
Jul 7 at 17:54
1
$begingroup$
Okay. I used "only" colloquially. My bad. I'm pretty sure the OP was confusing the FTA with Euclid's lemma. So I said that only works if $p$ is prime. Colloquially that doesn't mean $p$ being prime is required and it is false otherwise. It means you can only cite that lemma if $p$ is prime. There are many other ways $a|b^k$ and $a|b$ can both be true but citing Euclid's lemma is usually reserved for $a$ prime. But in math I shouldn't have used the loaded word "only".
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Jul 7 at 18:56
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think you are confusing that if $p$ is prime and $p$ divides $b^k$ then $p|b$. That is true if $p$ is prime.
Actually it's also true for a composite $a|b^k$ then $a|b$ if $a$ has no square factors. But if $a$ as any prime factors to a power greater than $1$ it need not be true.
And in fact its obviously not true as $a^2$ divides $a^2$ but $a^2$ doesn't divide $a$ (unless $a = 1$).
Read on....
It most certainly is not true if $a|b^k$ that $a|b$ It means that the prime factors of $a$ are prime factors of $b$. And it means that the powers of those prime factors of $a$ are at most equal to $k$ times the powers of the same prime factors of $b$ but because $k$ is larger than .....
Oh let me put it this way.
Suppose $a = prod p_i^m_i$ be the prime factorization of $a$. Suppose $a|b^k$. Then that means that $p_i$ are prime factors of $b$ and that $b = dprod p_i^j_i$. And it means that $b^k = d^k prod p_i^k*j_i$.
And as $a|b^k$ that means each $m_i le k*j_i$. But that does not mean $m_i le j_i$ which would mean $a|b$.
You statement $a|b^k$ means $a|b$ if $a$ has square free and all the prime factor powers were $1$ but not other wise.
Simple example if $a = 12 = 2^2*3$ and $b= 90 = 2*3^2*5$. Now $a|b^2 = 8100 = 2^2*3^4*5^2$.
This means the prime factors of $a$ ($2,3$) are also prime factors of $b$. And it means that the powers of the prime factors of $a$ ($2mapsto 2; 3mapsto 1$) are less or equal to $2$ times the powers in $b$ ($2mapsto 1$ and $2 le 2*1$ and $3mapsto 2$ and $1 le 2*2$) but it doesnt mean the are less than or equal to the powers of $b$. (In $a; 2mapsto 2$ but in $b; 2mapsto 1$ and $2 not le 1$).
So $12 not mid 90$.
It's certainly can't be the case that $a|b implies a^2| b^2 implies a^2|b$! That would mean every time you have $a|b$ you can just keep squaring and reducing to get $a^m|b$ for any power of $m$.
That would mean if $3|6$ then $3^2|6$ and $3^4|6$ and $3^2048|6$ and so on.
Or in this case as $a = b$ (and $c=1$.... because $a$ is an integer) you would have $a|a$ so $a^2|a$? And $a^4|a$. That's .... simply not true.
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$begingroup$
No, $,pmid b^k,Rightarrow, pmid b,$ is true $iff p,$ is squarefree. Follow the link for a handful of characterizations of squarefree integers.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
Jul 7 at 17:44
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Why do you say "no"? That is exactly what I said.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Jul 7 at 17:52
$begingroup$
Because the first paragraph was incorrect. Now it is correct after your edit.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
Jul 7 at 17:54
1
$begingroup$
Okay. I used "only" colloquially. My bad. I'm pretty sure the OP was confusing the FTA with Euclid's lemma. So I said that only works if $p$ is prime. Colloquially that doesn't mean $p$ being prime is required and it is false otherwise. It means you can only cite that lemma if $p$ is prime. There are many other ways $a|b^k$ and $a|b$ can both be true but citing Euclid's lemma is usually reserved for $a$ prime. But in math I shouldn't have used the loaded word "only".
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Jul 7 at 18:56
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think you are confusing that if $p$ is prime and $p$ divides $b^k$ then $p|b$. That is true if $p$ is prime.
Actually it's also true for a composite $a|b^k$ then $a|b$ if $a$ has no square factors. But if $a$ as any prime factors to a power greater than $1$ it need not be true.
And in fact its obviously not true as $a^2$ divides $a^2$ but $a^2$ doesn't divide $a$ (unless $a = 1$).
Read on....
It most certainly is not true if $a|b^k$ that $a|b$ It means that the prime factors of $a$ are prime factors of $b$. And it means that the powers of those prime factors of $a$ are at most equal to $k$ times the powers of the same prime factors of $b$ but because $k$ is larger than .....
Oh let me put it this way.
Suppose $a = prod p_i^m_i$ be the prime factorization of $a$. Suppose $a|b^k$. Then that means that $p_i$ are prime factors of $b$ and that $b = dprod p_i^j_i$. And it means that $b^k = d^k prod p_i^k*j_i$.
And as $a|b^k$ that means each $m_i le k*j_i$. But that does not mean $m_i le j_i$ which would mean $a|b$.
You statement $a|b^k$ means $a|b$ if $a$ has square free and all the prime factor powers were $1$ but not other wise.
Simple example if $a = 12 = 2^2*3$ and $b= 90 = 2*3^2*5$. Now $a|b^2 = 8100 = 2^2*3^4*5^2$.
This means the prime factors of $a$ ($2,3$) are also prime factors of $b$. And it means that the powers of the prime factors of $a$ ($2mapsto 2; 3mapsto 1$) are less or equal to $2$ times the powers in $b$ ($2mapsto 1$ and $2 le 2*1$ and $3mapsto 2$ and $1 le 2*2$) but it doesnt mean the are less than or equal to the powers of $b$. (In $a; 2mapsto 2$ but in $b; 2mapsto 1$ and $2 not le 1$).
So $12 not mid 90$.
It's certainly can't be the case that $a|b implies a^2| b^2 implies a^2|b$! That would mean every time you have $a|b$ you can just keep squaring and reducing to get $a^m|b$ for any power of $m$.
That would mean if $3|6$ then $3^2|6$ and $3^4|6$ and $3^2048|6$ and so on.
Or in this case as $a = b$ (and $c=1$.... because $a$ is an integer) you would have $a|a$ so $a^2|a$? And $a^4|a$. That's .... simply not true.
$endgroup$
I think you are confusing that if $p$ is prime and $p$ divides $b^k$ then $p|b$. That is true if $p$ is prime.
Actually it's also true for a composite $a|b^k$ then $a|b$ if $a$ has no square factors. But if $a$ as any prime factors to a power greater than $1$ it need not be true.
And in fact its obviously not true as $a^2$ divides $a^2$ but $a^2$ doesn't divide $a$ (unless $a = 1$).
Read on....
It most certainly is not true if $a|b^k$ that $a|b$ It means that the prime factors of $a$ are prime factors of $b$. And it means that the powers of those prime factors of $a$ are at most equal to $k$ times the powers of the same prime factors of $b$ but because $k$ is larger than .....
Oh let me put it this way.
Suppose $a = prod p_i^m_i$ be the prime factorization of $a$. Suppose $a|b^k$. Then that means that $p_i$ are prime factors of $b$ and that $b = dprod p_i^j_i$. And it means that $b^k = d^k prod p_i^k*j_i$.
And as $a|b^k$ that means each $m_i le k*j_i$. But that does not mean $m_i le j_i$ which would mean $a|b$.
You statement $a|b^k$ means $a|b$ if $a$ has square free and all the prime factor powers were $1$ but not other wise.
Simple example if $a = 12 = 2^2*3$ and $b= 90 = 2*3^2*5$. Now $a|b^2 = 8100 = 2^2*3^4*5^2$.
This means the prime factors of $a$ ($2,3$) are also prime factors of $b$. And it means that the powers of the prime factors of $a$ ($2mapsto 2; 3mapsto 1$) are less or equal to $2$ times the powers in $b$ ($2mapsto 1$ and $2 le 2*1$ and $3mapsto 2$ and $1 le 2*2$) but it doesnt mean the are less than or equal to the powers of $b$. (In $a; 2mapsto 2$ but in $b; 2mapsto 1$ and $2 not le 1$).
So $12 not mid 90$.
It's certainly can't be the case that $a|b implies a^2| b^2 implies a^2|b$! That would mean every time you have $a|b$ you can just keep squaring and reducing to get $a^m|b$ for any power of $m$.
That would mean if $3|6$ then $3^2|6$ and $3^4|6$ and $3^2048|6$ and so on.
Or in this case as $a = b$ (and $c=1$.... because $a$ is an integer) you would have $a|a$ so $a^2|a$? And $a^4|a$. That's .... simply not true.
edited Jul 7 at 17:52
answered Jul 7 at 17:23
fleabloodfleablood
76k2 gold badges28 silver badges95 bronze badges
76k2 gold badges28 silver badges95 bronze badges
$begingroup$
No, $,pmid b^k,Rightarrow, pmid b,$ is true $iff p,$ is squarefree. Follow the link for a handful of characterizations of squarefree integers.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
Jul 7 at 17:44
$begingroup$
Why do you say "no"? That is exactly what I said.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Jul 7 at 17:52
$begingroup$
Because the first paragraph was incorrect. Now it is correct after your edit.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
Jul 7 at 17:54
1
$begingroup$
Okay. I used "only" colloquially. My bad. I'm pretty sure the OP was confusing the FTA with Euclid's lemma. So I said that only works if $p$ is prime. Colloquially that doesn't mean $p$ being prime is required and it is false otherwise. It means you can only cite that lemma if $p$ is prime. There are many other ways $a|b^k$ and $a|b$ can both be true but citing Euclid's lemma is usually reserved for $a$ prime. But in math I shouldn't have used the loaded word "only".
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Jul 7 at 18:56
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No, $,pmid b^k,Rightarrow, pmid b,$ is true $iff p,$ is squarefree. Follow the link for a handful of characterizations of squarefree integers.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
Jul 7 at 17:44
$begingroup$
Why do you say "no"? That is exactly what I said.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Jul 7 at 17:52
$begingroup$
Because the first paragraph was incorrect. Now it is correct after your edit.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
Jul 7 at 17:54
1
$begingroup$
Okay. I used "only" colloquially. My bad. I'm pretty sure the OP was confusing the FTA with Euclid's lemma. So I said that only works if $p$ is prime. Colloquially that doesn't mean $p$ being prime is required and it is false otherwise. It means you can only cite that lemma if $p$ is prime. There are many other ways $a|b^k$ and $a|b$ can both be true but citing Euclid's lemma is usually reserved for $a$ prime. But in math I shouldn't have used the loaded word "only".
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Jul 7 at 18:56
$begingroup$
No, $,pmid b^k,Rightarrow, pmid b,$ is true $iff p,$ is squarefree. Follow the link for a handful of characterizations of squarefree integers.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
Jul 7 at 17:44
$begingroup$
No, $,pmid b^k,Rightarrow, pmid b,$ is true $iff p,$ is squarefree. Follow the link for a handful of characterizations of squarefree integers.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
Jul 7 at 17:44
$begingroup$
Why do you say "no"? That is exactly what I said.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Jul 7 at 17:52
$begingroup$
Why do you say "no"? That is exactly what I said.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Jul 7 at 17:52
$begingroup$
Because the first paragraph was incorrect. Now it is correct after your edit.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
Jul 7 at 17:54
$begingroup$
Because the first paragraph was incorrect. Now it is correct after your edit.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
Jul 7 at 17:54
1
1
$begingroup$
Okay. I used "only" colloquially. My bad. I'm pretty sure the OP was confusing the FTA with Euclid's lemma. So I said that only works if $p$ is prime. Colloquially that doesn't mean $p$ being prime is required and it is false otherwise. It means you can only cite that lemma if $p$ is prime. There are many other ways $a|b^k$ and $a|b$ can both be true but citing Euclid's lemma is usually reserved for $a$ prime. But in math I shouldn't have used the loaded word "only".
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Jul 7 at 18:56
$begingroup$
Okay. I used "only" colloquially. My bad. I'm pretty sure the OP was confusing the FTA with Euclid's lemma. So I said that only works if $p$ is prime. Colloquially that doesn't mean $p$ being prime is required and it is false otherwise. It means you can only cite that lemma if $p$ is prime. There are many other ways $a|b^k$ and $a|b$ can both be true but citing Euclid's lemma is usually reserved for $a$ prime. But in math I shouldn't have used the loaded word "only".
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Jul 7 at 18:56
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Basic facts missing $ac=b$ is a lot easier to use. $a^2$ does not need to divide $b$. A fraction sharing no common factor other than 1, between the number on top ( numerator), and the number on the bottom ( denominator), is said to be in lowest terms .
Anyways starting from $a=bover c$ we get $ac=b$ showing c divides b, sharing no factor other than 1, and therefore, $c=1$, implying $a=b$ so $a=aover 1$ it Also can be used to show :$a=-aover -1$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Basic facts missing $ac=b$ is a lot easier to use. $a^2$ does not need to divide $b$. A fraction sharing no common factor other than 1, between the number on top ( numerator), and the number on the bottom ( denominator), is said to be in lowest terms .
Anyways starting from $a=bover c$ we get $ac=b$ showing c divides b, sharing no factor other than 1, and therefore, $c=1$, implying $a=b$ so $a=aover 1$ it Also can be used to show :$a=-aover -1$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Basic facts missing $ac=b$ is a lot easier to use. $a^2$ does not need to divide $b$. A fraction sharing no common factor other than 1, between the number on top ( numerator), and the number on the bottom ( denominator), is said to be in lowest terms .
Anyways starting from $a=bover c$ we get $ac=b$ showing c divides b, sharing no factor other than 1, and therefore, $c=1$, implying $a=b$ so $a=aover 1$ it Also can be used to show :$a=-aover -1$
$endgroup$
Basic facts missing $ac=b$ is a lot easier to use. $a^2$ does not need to divide $b$. A fraction sharing no common factor other than 1, between the number on top ( numerator), and the number on the bottom ( denominator), is said to be in lowest terms .
Anyways starting from $a=bover c$ we get $ac=b$ showing c divides b, sharing no factor other than 1, and therefore, $c=1$, implying $a=b$ so $a=aover 1$ it Also can be used to show :$a=-aover -1$
answered Jul 8 at 0:41
Roddy MacPheeRoddy MacPhee
282 gold badges2 silver badges25 bronze badges
282 gold badges2 silver badges25 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
"a^2 is a factor b^2 and b" You are right $a^2$ divides $b^2$, but why would it divide $b$?
$endgroup$
– Wojowu
Jul 7 at 16:06
7
$begingroup$
First error I spotted is that $a^2$ need not be a factor of $b$ just because it is a factor of $b^2$. Indeed, if $a=2$ and $b=2$, then $a^2=4$ is a factor of $b^2=4$ but $a^2=4$ is not a factor of $b=2$.
$endgroup$
– Dave
Jul 7 at 16:06
3
$begingroup$
Also, it is clear that integers are rational because given any integer $a$ we can write $a=fraca1$.
$endgroup$
– Dave
Jul 7 at 16:08
4
$begingroup$
If b and c are coprime, and a=b/c, then what does c have to be?
$endgroup$
– pokep
Jul 7 at 17:33
3
$begingroup$
@Toolazytothinkofaname It is rather simple to spot the error. Substitute the variables by actual integers and find where the proof is wrong.
$endgroup$
– miracle173
Jul 8 at 14:18