Are children a reason to be rejected for a job?Is the advice “Don't state your target salary” for new jobs applicable for engineers on the German job market?Reapplying to a Job after 2 months?Should I reapply for a job after a rejection if the job posting gets announced again?How to approach to finding a remote full-time job in a different country?Is it professionally accepted to apply for jobs after accepting an offerApplying for different job after rejection at the same companyHuge interview test seems like real (free) work for the companyHow to cancel job interview without burning any bridges?When I receive my contract after handing in formal job offer(Update) If I tried and failed to start my own business, how do I apply for a job without job experience?
How could China have extradited people for political reason under the extradition law it wanted to pass in Hong Kong?
But though we be the children of technology
How do you call it when two celestial bodies come as close to each other as they will in their current orbits?
Metal that glows when near pieces of itself
Unsolved Problems (Not Independent of ZFC) due to Lack of Computational Power
How big would a Daddy Longlegs Spider need to be to kill an average Human?
Unbiased estimator of exponential of measure of a set?
Why didn’t Doctor Strange stay in the original winning timeline?
Why doesn't the Falcon-9 first stage use three legs to land?
Is there such a thing as too inconvenient?
Was Switzerland really impossible to invade during WW2?
Have only girls been born for a long time in this village?
Using は before 欲しい instead が
Chord with lyrics - What does it mean if there is an empty space instead of a Chord?
Are required indicators necessary for radio buttons?
Chess software to analyze games
Multicolumn in table not centered
Would it be illegal for Facebook to actively promote a political agenda?
What animal has fat with the highest energy density?
Writing/buying Seforim rather than Sefer Torah
Changing a TGV booking
Church Booleans
Best Practice: dependency on data model names
Convert HTML color to OLE
Are children a reason to be rejected for a job?
Is the advice “Don't state your target salary” for new jobs applicable for engineers on the German job market?Reapplying to a Job after 2 months?Should I reapply for a job after a rejection if the job posting gets announced again?How to approach to finding a remote full-time job in a different country?Is it professionally accepted to apply for jobs after accepting an offerApplying for different job after rejection at the same companyHuge interview test seems like real (free) work for the companyHow to cancel job interview without burning any bridges?When I receive my contract after handing in formal job offer(Update) If I tried and failed to start my own business, how do I apply for a job without job experience?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
After working for 5 years in an industrial environment I want to change to Academia. My CV matches the positions where I applied so far pretty well, but until now I have only received rejections.
I don't know how to handle these rejections, because I'm not used to that. When I wanted to change jobs in the past, I got an invitation for an interview and after that at least one week later I got a contract.
During a short interview by phone, the interviewer asked me if I carefully considered everything regarding such a position, since I have kids. Could it be possible that the reason for rejection is that I have two kids (which I mention in my CV)? Should I delete personal information like this from my CV?
Edit
For the ones that are interested in the answers from Academia, I just posted my question here
resume applications germany discrimination family
asked Aug 7 at 11:18
SMaSMa
1422 silver badges6 bronze badges
|
show 9 more comments
After working for 5 years in an industrial environment I want to change to Academia. My CV matches the positions where I applied so far pretty well, but until now I have only received rejections.
I don't know how to handle these rejections, because I'm not used to that. When I wanted to change jobs in the past, I got an invitation for an interview and after that at least one week later I got a contract.
During a short interview by phone, the interviewer asked me if I carefully considered everything regarding such a position, since I have kids. Could it be possible that the reason for rejection is that I have two kids (which I mention in my CV)? Should I delete personal information like this from my CV?
Edit
For the ones that are interested in the answers from Academia, I just posted my question here
resume applications germany discrimination family
asked Aug 7 at 11:18
SMaSMa
1422 silver badges6 bronze badges
133
Why do you mention you have kids on your CV?
– Gregory Currie
Aug 7 at 12:00
24
For those that are wanting an answer to my question, i took a look online and it doesn't appear to be uncommon to include such information in Germany. I'll add the German tag as maybe my answer is not suitable for working in Germany.
– Gregory Currie
Aug 7 at 12:39
3
I see in one of the answer comments you are working on getting a degree. Do the positions require this degree? Also - it's possible they thought that this job + degree study + kids would be too much (rightly or wrongly)
– Smock
Aug 7 at 12:48
8
In the current economy, competition for industry jobs is lower than for academic jobs. You should at least consider other reasons why getting a position is harder than you are used to.
– Roland
Aug 7 at 13:47
8
"During a short interview by phone, the interviewer asked me if I carefully considered everything regarding such a position, since I have kids." Did you consider everything required for the position? I doubt they would reject you for having kids but they might reject you if they aren't satisfied with how you answer this question.
– AffableAmbler
Aug 7 at 14:30
|
show 9 more comments
After working for 5 years in an industrial environment I want to change to Academia. My CV matches the positions where I applied so far pretty well, but until now I have only received rejections.
I don't know how to handle these rejections, because I'm not used to that. When I wanted to change jobs in the past, I got an invitation for an interview and after that at least one week later I got a contract.
During a short interview by phone, the interviewer asked me if I carefully considered everything regarding such a position, since I have kids. Could it be possible that the reason for rejection is that I have two kids (which I mention in my CV)? Should I delete personal information like this from my CV?
Edit
For the ones that are interested in the answers from Academia, I just posted my question here
resume applications germany discrimination family
asked Aug 7 at 11:18
SMaSMa
1422 silver badges6 bronze badges
After working for 5 years in an industrial environment I want to change to Academia. My CV matches the positions where I applied so far pretty well, but until now I have only received rejections.
I don't know how to handle these rejections, because I'm not used to that. When I wanted to change jobs in the past, I got an invitation for an interview and after that at least one week later I got a contract.
During a short interview by phone, the interviewer asked me if I carefully considered everything regarding such a position, since I have kids. Could it be possible that the reason for rejection is that I have two kids (which I mention in my CV)? Should I delete personal information like this from my CV?
Edit
For the ones that are interested in the answers from Academia, I just posted my question here
resume applications germany discrimination family
resume applications germany discrimination family
asked Aug 7 at 11:18
SMaSMa
1422 silver badges6 bronze badges
asked Aug 7 at 11:18
SMaSMa
1422 silver badges6 bronze badges
edited Aug 8 at 10:57
SMa
asked Aug 7 at 11:18
SMaSMa
1422 silver badges6 bronze badges
asked Aug 7 at 11:18
SMaSMa
1422 silver badges6 bronze badges
asked Aug 7 at 11:18
SMaSMa
1422 silver badges6 bronze badges
1422 silver badges6 bronze badges
133
Why do you mention you have kids on your CV?
– Gregory Currie
Aug 7 at 12:00
24
For those that are wanting an answer to my question, i took a look online and it doesn't appear to be uncommon to include such information in Germany. I'll add the German tag as maybe my answer is not suitable for working in Germany.
– Gregory Currie
Aug 7 at 12:39
3
I see in one of the answer comments you are working on getting a degree. Do the positions require this degree? Also - it's possible they thought that this job + degree study + kids would be too much (rightly or wrongly)
– Smock
Aug 7 at 12:48
8
In the current economy, competition for industry jobs is lower than for academic jobs. You should at least consider other reasons why getting a position is harder than you are used to.
– Roland
Aug 7 at 13:47
8
"During a short interview by phone, the interviewer asked me if I carefully considered everything regarding such a position, since I have kids." Did you consider everything required for the position? I doubt they would reject you for having kids but they might reject you if they aren't satisfied with how you answer this question.
– AffableAmbler
Aug 7 at 14:30
|
show 9 more comments
133
Why do you mention you have kids on your CV?
– Gregory Currie
Aug 7 at 12:00
24
For those that are wanting an answer to my question, i took a look online and it doesn't appear to be uncommon to include such information in Germany. I'll add the German tag as maybe my answer is not suitable for working in Germany.
– Gregory Currie
Aug 7 at 12:39
3
I see in one of the answer comments you are working on getting a degree. Do the positions require this degree? Also - it's possible they thought that this job + degree study + kids would be too much (rightly or wrongly)
– Smock
Aug 7 at 12:48
8
In the current economy, competition for industry jobs is lower than for academic jobs. You should at least consider other reasons why getting a position is harder than you are used to.
– Roland
Aug 7 at 13:47
8
"During a short interview by phone, the interviewer asked me if I carefully considered everything regarding such a position, since I have kids." Did you consider everything required for the position? I doubt they would reject you for having kids but they might reject you if they aren't satisfied with how you answer this question.
– AffableAmbler
Aug 7 at 14:30
133
133
Why do you mention you have kids on your CV?
– Gregory Currie
Aug 7 at 12:00
Why do you mention you have kids on your CV?
– Gregory Currie
Aug 7 at 12:00
24
24
For those that are wanting an answer to my question, i took a look online and it doesn't appear to be uncommon to include such information in Germany. I'll add the German tag as maybe my answer is not suitable for working in Germany.
– Gregory Currie
Aug 7 at 12:39
For those that are wanting an answer to my question, i took a look online and it doesn't appear to be uncommon to include such information in Germany. I'll add the German tag as maybe my answer is not suitable for working in Germany.
– Gregory Currie
Aug 7 at 12:39
3
3
I see in one of the answer comments you are working on getting a degree. Do the positions require this degree? Also - it's possible they thought that this job + degree study + kids would be too much (rightly or wrongly)
– Smock
Aug 7 at 12:48
I see in one of the answer comments you are working on getting a degree. Do the positions require this degree? Also - it's possible they thought that this job + degree study + kids would be too much (rightly or wrongly)
– Smock
Aug 7 at 12:48
8
8
In the current economy, competition for industry jobs is lower than for academic jobs. You should at least consider other reasons why getting a position is harder than you are used to.
– Roland
Aug 7 at 13:47
In the current economy, competition for industry jobs is lower than for academic jobs. You should at least consider other reasons why getting a position is harder than you are used to.
– Roland
Aug 7 at 13:47
8
8
"During a short interview by phone, the interviewer asked me if I carefully considered everything regarding such a position, since I have kids." Did you consider everything required for the position? I doubt they would reject you for having kids but they might reject you if they aren't satisfied with how you answer this question.
– AffableAmbler
Aug 7 at 14:30
"During a short interview by phone, the interviewer asked me if I carefully considered everything regarding such a position, since I have kids." Did you consider everything required for the position? I doubt they would reject you for having kids but they might reject you if they aren't satisfied with how you answer this question.
– AffableAmbler
Aug 7 at 14:30
|
show 9 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
(It is in dispute if this answer is suitable for Germany)
Are children a reason to be rejected for a job?
Yes.
Are children a VALID reason to be rejected for a job?
No.
How can I prove they rejected me for this invalid reason?
You cannot.
Remove the personal information from your CV.
You may want to take a close look at your CV to make sure there are no other "red flags" (legitimate or otherwise) that may decrease your chances. Given that somehow the fact you have children has ended up on your CV, and you're having trouble landing the position, your CV probably needs a bit of work.
answered Aug 7 at 12:02
Gregory CurrieGregory Currie
12.2k10 gold badges48 silver badges65 bronze badges
78
Remove the personal information from your CV -- this. People who are looking to fill a position look for a way to eliminate candidates first.
– Mister Positive♦
Aug 7 at 12:18
8
Remove the personal information from your CV: Bad advice for Germany. This is perfectly legal and expected to be there. Omitting it will raise a red flag and is likely do more harm than good.
– Hilmar
Aug 7 at 13:50
28
This is a perfect answer for Germany, please remove the warning. I do not know which Germany Hilmar is talking about but it cannot be the same as my country. I neither know anybody who would put information about his family life on a job application, not did I ever recieve an application containing it. People may include hobbies or similar for the personal touch, but never anything about children. Big companies even have processes to remove personal information to avoid legal trouble.
– Chris
Aug 7 at 17:29
3
@GregoryCurrie: I am not aware of any such industry, even in childcare it doesn't matter, because most employees are young women without own children. I did a quick Google research about "Kinder im Lebenslauf" (children in CV) and all websites agree that in most cases that's a risk and only in very specific cases you might want to mention it. But definitely is nowhere near expected.
– Chris
Aug 8 at 5:38
6
@Gregory Currie It might also be a generational difference. I know my parents were taught to include family status and the like on their CV, but that started to fade when I was in high school and nowadays almost nobody does it anymore and even hobbies are only a thing for students who don't have much else to get their CV up to one full page. I'd say your answer is right for Germany, too.
– Sumyrda
Aug 8 at 6:13
|
show 7 more comments
As you didnt put a location I will bring in my German perspective:
Here, it is common to get only yearly contracts when working in academia(even for doctoral degree roles) and thus having an unstable income. Another point is you will need to work long hours in order to finish your degree, which might be a problem when you have to take care of your children. I think those are the main reason why the questions regarding your children are coming up. From an employer perspective, it can be seen as a problem or an obstacle.
If you are okay with having to work long hours, having a lower income and an unstable job, then leave the information about your children out of your CV.
You can still talk about it during an interview and highlight your ability to handle family and working long hours.
answered Aug 7 at 12:10
LaughULaughU
1,4341 gold badge8 silver badges18 bronze badges
3
For Germany, do you know the legality of rejecting someone based on having children? I couldn't find a direct reference for protections for parents, but if the company would have accepted a father but not a mother, that would be considered sex discrimination.
– David K
Aug 7 at 12:31
3
@SMa I thought most academia job require PhD degree and you are working toward a degree. Why do you think you can get an academic job without PhD? Are you looking for TA/RA job? Most TA/RAs are offered to graduate students. If you are a PhD student, you should be already a TA/RA. If you are working toward a master degree, the chance of getting academic job is slim.
– scaaahu
Aug 7 at 13:40
8
@SMa "research assistant which also offer the possibility to obtain a PhD" is legalese for "paid PhD position". The focus of your application needs to be on the PhD and not on becoming a research assistant. I hope you know this.
– Roland
Aug 7 at 14:26
3
@SMa I suspect that they are worried whether you can sustain the commitment for the necessary three to five years while having dependents (and being used to a good payment in the industry). You should try to address this worry preemptively.
– Roland
Aug 7 at 14:42
4
@SMa I'm not so familiar with the academic environment in Germany, but are you applying directly to a job, which you think will be a good gateway to the PhD program, or are you applying/have you applied to the PhD program and are now looking for a research job as a part of that? My confusion is because in the U.S. applying for an RA type of job without already being in the PhD program is unusual and a difficult route to follow.
– Upper_Case
Aug 7 at 15:21
|
show 6 more comments
I can only speak from personal experience, but most likely your children are not the reason: in Germany, it can be incredibly difficult to get into academia.
Our university has a daycare for children and if you can’t get a spot there and no one from your family can take care of your children while you are at work, you are allowed to take the children to work or pay a babysitter (which will partly be paid by the university).
I‘ve heard many times that it is difficult to get a job in academia, especially if they don’t know you and/or you didn’t study there. When I considered dropping out of academia and taking another job, a lot of people (from other universities as well) told me to reconsider, because it would be very hard for me to get back into an academic position after working in the industry. Even if your CV looks good and your experience is valuable, it is very likely that the children are not the reason, they just preferred someone they knew, someone who studied there or was recommended to them.
answered Aug 8 at 8:48
SnailshellSnailshell
1891 bronze badge
4
"Even if your CV looks good and your experience is valuable, it is very likely that the children are not the reason, they just preferred someone they knew, someone who studied there or was recommended to them" You should ask in academia.stackexchange.com too, but imho @Snailshell is correct in his assumption.
– K. Gkinis
Aug 8 at 9:15
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "423"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: false,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworkplace.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f141743%2fare-children-a-reason-to-be-rejected-for-a-job%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(function ()
$("#show-editor-button input, #show-editor-button button").click(function ()
var showEditor = function()
$("#show-editor-button").addClass("d-none");
$("#post-form").removeClass("d-none");
StackExchange.editor.finallyInit();
;
var useFancy = $(this).data('confirm-use-fancy');
if(useFancy == 'True')
var popupTitle = $(this).data('confirm-fancy-title');
var popupBody = $(this).data('confirm-fancy-body');
var popupAccept = $(this).data('confirm-fancy-accept-button');
$(this).loadPopup(
url: '/post/self-answer-popup',
loaded: function(popup)
var pTitle = $(popup).find('h2');
var pBody = $(popup).find('.popup-body');
var pSubmit = $(popup).find('.popup-submit');
pTitle.text(popupTitle);
pBody.html(popupBody);
pSubmit.val(popupAccept).click(showEditor);
)
else
var confirmText = $(this).data('confirm-text');
if (confirmText ? confirm(confirmText) : true)
showEditor();
);
);
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
(It is in dispute if this answer is suitable for Germany)
Are children a reason to be rejected for a job?
Yes.
Are children a VALID reason to be rejected for a job?
No.
How can I prove they rejected me for this invalid reason?
You cannot.
Remove the personal information from your CV.
You may want to take a close look at your CV to make sure there are no other "red flags" (legitimate or otherwise) that may decrease your chances. Given that somehow the fact you have children has ended up on your CV, and you're having trouble landing the position, your CV probably needs a bit of work.
answered Aug 7 at 12:02
Gregory CurrieGregory Currie
12.2k10 gold badges48 silver badges65 bronze badges
78
Remove the personal information from your CV -- this. People who are looking to fill a position look for a way to eliminate candidates first.
– Mister Positive♦
Aug 7 at 12:18
8
Remove the personal information from your CV: Bad advice for Germany. This is perfectly legal and expected to be there. Omitting it will raise a red flag and is likely do more harm than good.
– Hilmar
Aug 7 at 13:50
28
This is a perfect answer for Germany, please remove the warning. I do not know which Germany Hilmar is talking about but it cannot be the same as my country. I neither know anybody who would put information about his family life on a job application, not did I ever recieve an application containing it. People may include hobbies or similar for the personal touch, but never anything about children. Big companies even have processes to remove personal information to avoid legal trouble.
– Chris
Aug 7 at 17:29
3
@GregoryCurrie: I am not aware of any such industry, even in childcare it doesn't matter, because most employees are young women without own children. I did a quick Google research about "Kinder im Lebenslauf" (children in CV) and all websites agree that in most cases that's a risk and only in very specific cases you might want to mention it. But definitely is nowhere near expected.
– Chris
Aug 8 at 5:38
6
@Gregory Currie It might also be a generational difference. I know my parents were taught to include family status and the like on their CV, but that started to fade when I was in high school and nowadays almost nobody does it anymore and even hobbies are only a thing for students who don't have much else to get their CV up to one full page. I'd say your answer is right for Germany, too.
– Sumyrda
Aug 8 at 6:13
|
show 7 more comments
(It is in dispute if this answer is suitable for Germany)
Are children a reason to be rejected for a job?
Yes.
Are children a VALID reason to be rejected for a job?
No.
How can I prove they rejected me for this invalid reason?
You cannot.
Remove the personal information from your CV.
You may want to take a close look at your CV to make sure there are no other "red flags" (legitimate or otherwise) that may decrease your chances. Given that somehow the fact you have children has ended up on your CV, and you're having trouble landing the position, your CV probably needs a bit of work.
answered Aug 7 at 12:02
Gregory CurrieGregory Currie
12.2k10 gold badges48 silver badges65 bronze badges
78
Remove the personal information from your CV -- this. People who are looking to fill a position look for a way to eliminate candidates first.
– Mister Positive♦
Aug 7 at 12:18
8
Remove the personal information from your CV: Bad advice for Germany. This is perfectly legal and expected to be there. Omitting it will raise a red flag and is likely do more harm than good.
– Hilmar
Aug 7 at 13:50
28
This is a perfect answer for Germany, please remove the warning. I do not know which Germany Hilmar is talking about but it cannot be the same as my country. I neither know anybody who would put information about his family life on a job application, not did I ever recieve an application containing it. People may include hobbies or similar for the personal touch, but never anything about children. Big companies even have processes to remove personal information to avoid legal trouble.
– Chris
Aug 7 at 17:29
3
@GregoryCurrie: I am not aware of any such industry, even in childcare it doesn't matter, because most employees are young women without own children. I did a quick Google research about "Kinder im Lebenslauf" (children in CV) and all websites agree that in most cases that's a risk and only in very specific cases you might want to mention it. But definitely is nowhere near expected.
– Chris
Aug 8 at 5:38
6
@Gregory Currie It might also be a generational difference. I know my parents were taught to include family status and the like on their CV, but that started to fade when I was in high school and nowadays almost nobody does it anymore and even hobbies are only a thing for students who don't have much else to get their CV up to one full page. I'd say your answer is right for Germany, too.
– Sumyrda
Aug 8 at 6:13
|
show 7 more comments
(It is in dispute if this answer is suitable for Germany)
Are children a reason to be rejected for a job?
Yes.
Are children a VALID reason to be rejected for a job?
No.
How can I prove they rejected me for this invalid reason?
You cannot.
Remove the personal information from your CV.
You may want to take a close look at your CV to make sure there are no other "red flags" (legitimate or otherwise) that may decrease your chances. Given that somehow the fact you have children has ended up on your CV, and you're having trouble landing the position, your CV probably needs a bit of work.
answered Aug 7 at 12:02
Gregory CurrieGregory Currie
12.2k10 gold badges48 silver badges65 bronze badges
(It is in dispute if this answer is suitable for Germany)
Are children a reason to be rejected for a job?
Yes.
Are children a VALID reason to be rejected for a job?
No.
How can I prove they rejected me for this invalid reason?
You cannot.
Remove the personal information from your CV.
You may want to take a close look at your CV to make sure there are no other "red flags" (legitimate or otherwise) that may decrease your chances. Given that somehow the fact you have children has ended up on your CV, and you're having trouble landing the position, your CV probably needs a bit of work.
answered Aug 7 at 12:02
Gregory CurrieGregory Currie
12.2k10 gold badges48 silver badges65 bronze badges
edited Aug 7 at 23:09
answered Aug 7 at 12:02
Gregory CurrieGregory Currie
12.2k10 gold badges48 silver badges65 bronze badges
answered Aug 7 at 12:02
Gregory CurrieGregory Currie
12.2k10 gold badges48 silver badges65 bronze badges
answered Aug 7 at 12:02
Gregory CurrieGregory Currie
12.2k10 gold badges48 silver badges65 bronze badges
12.2k10 gold badges48 silver badges65 bronze badges
78
Remove the personal information from your CV -- this. People who are looking to fill a position look for a way to eliminate candidates first.
– Mister Positive♦
Aug 7 at 12:18
8
Remove the personal information from your CV: Bad advice for Germany. This is perfectly legal and expected to be there. Omitting it will raise a red flag and is likely do more harm than good.
– Hilmar
Aug 7 at 13:50
28
This is a perfect answer for Germany, please remove the warning. I do not know which Germany Hilmar is talking about but it cannot be the same as my country. I neither know anybody who would put information about his family life on a job application, not did I ever recieve an application containing it. People may include hobbies or similar for the personal touch, but never anything about children. Big companies even have processes to remove personal information to avoid legal trouble.
– Chris
Aug 7 at 17:29
3
@GregoryCurrie: I am not aware of any such industry, even in childcare it doesn't matter, because most employees are young women without own children. I did a quick Google research about "Kinder im Lebenslauf" (children in CV) and all websites agree that in most cases that's a risk and only in very specific cases you might want to mention it. But definitely is nowhere near expected.
– Chris
Aug 8 at 5:38
6
@Gregory Currie It might also be a generational difference. I know my parents were taught to include family status and the like on their CV, but that started to fade when I was in high school and nowadays almost nobody does it anymore and even hobbies are only a thing for students who don't have much else to get their CV up to one full page. I'd say your answer is right for Germany, too.
– Sumyrda
Aug 8 at 6:13
|
show 7 more comments
78
Remove the personal information from your CV -- this. People who are looking to fill a position look for a way to eliminate candidates first.
– Mister Positive♦
Aug 7 at 12:18
8
Remove the personal information from your CV: Bad advice for Germany. This is perfectly legal and expected to be there. Omitting it will raise a red flag and is likely do more harm than good.
– Hilmar
Aug 7 at 13:50
28
This is a perfect answer for Germany, please remove the warning. I do not know which Germany Hilmar is talking about but it cannot be the same as my country. I neither know anybody who would put information about his family life on a job application, not did I ever recieve an application containing it. People may include hobbies or similar for the personal touch, but never anything about children. Big companies even have processes to remove personal information to avoid legal trouble.
– Chris
Aug 7 at 17:29
3
@GregoryCurrie: I am not aware of any such industry, even in childcare it doesn't matter, because most employees are young women without own children. I did a quick Google research about "Kinder im Lebenslauf" (children in CV) and all websites agree that in most cases that's a risk and only in very specific cases you might want to mention it. But definitely is nowhere near expected.
– Chris
Aug 8 at 5:38
6
@Gregory Currie It might also be a generational difference. I know my parents were taught to include family status and the like on their CV, but that started to fade when I was in high school and nowadays almost nobody does it anymore and even hobbies are only a thing for students who don't have much else to get their CV up to one full page. I'd say your answer is right for Germany, too.
– Sumyrda
Aug 8 at 6:13
78
78
Remove the personal information from your CV -- this. People who are looking to fill a position look for a way to eliminate candidates first.
– Mister Positive♦
Aug 7 at 12:18
Remove the personal information from your CV -- this. People who are looking to fill a position look for a way to eliminate candidates first.
– Mister Positive♦
Aug 7 at 12:18
8
8
Remove the personal information from your CV: Bad advice for Germany. This is perfectly legal and expected to be there. Omitting it will raise a red flag and is likely do more harm than good.
– Hilmar
Aug 7 at 13:50
Remove the personal information from your CV: Bad advice for Germany. This is perfectly legal and expected to be there. Omitting it will raise a red flag and is likely do more harm than good.
– Hilmar
Aug 7 at 13:50
28
28
This is a perfect answer for Germany, please remove the warning. I do not know which Germany Hilmar is talking about but it cannot be the same as my country. I neither know anybody who would put information about his family life on a job application, not did I ever recieve an application containing it. People may include hobbies or similar for the personal touch, but never anything about children. Big companies even have processes to remove personal information to avoid legal trouble.
– Chris
Aug 7 at 17:29
This is a perfect answer for Germany, please remove the warning. I do not know which Germany Hilmar is talking about but it cannot be the same as my country. I neither know anybody who would put information about his family life on a job application, not did I ever recieve an application containing it. People may include hobbies or similar for the personal touch, but never anything about children. Big companies even have processes to remove personal information to avoid legal trouble.
– Chris
Aug 7 at 17:29
3
3
@GregoryCurrie: I am not aware of any such industry, even in childcare it doesn't matter, because most employees are young women without own children. I did a quick Google research about "Kinder im Lebenslauf" (children in CV) and all websites agree that in most cases that's a risk and only in very specific cases you might want to mention it. But definitely is nowhere near expected.
– Chris
Aug 8 at 5:38
@GregoryCurrie: I am not aware of any such industry, even in childcare it doesn't matter, because most employees are young women without own children. I did a quick Google research about "Kinder im Lebenslauf" (children in CV) and all websites agree that in most cases that's a risk and only in very specific cases you might want to mention it. But definitely is nowhere near expected.
– Chris
Aug 8 at 5:38
6
6
@Gregory Currie It might also be a generational difference. I know my parents were taught to include family status and the like on their CV, but that started to fade when I was in high school and nowadays almost nobody does it anymore and even hobbies are only a thing for students who don't have much else to get their CV up to one full page. I'd say your answer is right for Germany, too.
– Sumyrda
Aug 8 at 6:13
@Gregory Currie It might also be a generational difference. I know my parents were taught to include family status and the like on their CV, but that started to fade when I was in high school and nowadays almost nobody does it anymore and even hobbies are only a thing for students who don't have much else to get their CV up to one full page. I'd say your answer is right for Germany, too.
– Sumyrda
Aug 8 at 6:13
|
show 7 more comments
As you didnt put a location I will bring in my German perspective:
Here, it is common to get only yearly contracts when working in academia(even for doctoral degree roles) and thus having an unstable income. Another point is you will need to work long hours in order to finish your degree, which might be a problem when you have to take care of your children. I think those are the main reason why the questions regarding your children are coming up. From an employer perspective, it can be seen as a problem or an obstacle.
If you are okay with having to work long hours, having a lower income and an unstable job, then leave the information about your children out of your CV.
You can still talk about it during an interview and highlight your ability to handle family and working long hours.
answered Aug 7 at 12:10
LaughULaughU
1,4341 gold badge8 silver badges18 bronze badges
3
For Germany, do you know the legality of rejecting someone based on having children? I couldn't find a direct reference for protections for parents, but if the company would have accepted a father but not a mother, that would be considered sex discrimination.
– David K
Aug 7 at 12:31
3
@SMa I thought most academia job require PhD degree and you are working toward a degree. Why do you think you can get an academic job without PhD? Are you looking for TA/RA job? Most TA/RAs are offered to graduate students. If you are a PhD student, you should be already a TA/RA. If you are working toward a master degree, the chance of getting academic job is slim.
– scaaahu
Aug 7 at 13:40
8
@SMa "research assistant which also offer the possibility to obtain a PhD" is legalese for "paid PhD position". The focus of your application needs to be on the PhD and not on becoming a research assistant. I hope you know this.
– Roland
Aug 7 at 14:26
3
@SMa I suspect that they are worried whether you can sustain the commitment for the necessary three to five years while having dependents (and being used to a good payment in the industry). You should try to address this worry preemptively.
– Roland
Aug 7 at 14:42
4
@SMa I'm not so familiar with the academic environment in Germany, but are you applying directly to a job, which you think will be a good gateway to the PhD program, or are you applying/have you applied to the PhD program and are now looking for a research job as a part of that? My confusion is because in the U.S. applying for an RA type of job without already being in the PhD program is unusual and a difficult route to follow.
– Upper_Case
Aug 7 at 15:21
|
show 6 more comments
As you didnt put a location I will bring in my German perspective:
Here, it is common to get only yearly contracts when working in academia(even for doctoral degree roles) and thus having an unstable income. Another point is you will need to work long hours in order to finish your degree, which might be a problem when you have to take care of your children. I think those are the main reason why the questions regarding your children are coming up. From an employer perspective, it can be seen as a problem or an obstacle.
If you are okay with having to work long hours, having a lower income and an unstable job, then leave the information about your children out of your CV.
You can still talk about it during an interview and highlight your ability to handle family and working long hours.
answered Aug 7 at 12:10
LaughULaughU
1,4341 gold badge8 silver badges18 bronze badges
3
For Germany, do you know the legality of rejecting someone based on having children? I couldn't find a direct reference for protections for parents, but if the company would have accepted a father but not a mother, that would be considered sex discrimination.
– David K
Aug 7 at 12:31
3
@SMa I thought most academia job require PhD degree and you are working toward a degree. Why do you think you can get an academic job without PhD? Are you looking for TA/RA job? Most TA/RAs are offered to graduate students. If you are a PhD student, you should be already a TA/RA. If you are working toward a master degree, the chance of getting academic job is slim.
– scaaahu
Aug 7 at 13:40
8
@SMa "research assistant which also offer the possibility to obtain a PhD" is legalese for "paid PhD position". The focus of your application needs to be on the PhD and not on becoming a research assistant. I hope you know this.
– Roland
Aug 7 at 14:26
3
@SMa I suspect that they are worried whether you can sustain the commitment for the necessary three to five years while having dependents (and being used to a good payment in the industry). You should try to address this worry preemptively.
– Roland
Aug 7 at 14:42
4
@SMa I'm not so familiar with the academic environment in Germany, but are you applying directly to a job, which you think will be a good gateway to the PhD program, or are you applying/have you applied to the PhD program and are now looking for a research job as a part of that? My confusion is because in the U.S. applying for an RA type of job without already being in the PhD program is unusual and a difficult route to follow.
– Upper_Case
Aug 7 at 15:21
|
show 6 more comments
As you didnt put a location I will bring in my German perspective:
Here, it is common to get only yearly contracts when working in academia(even for doctoral degree roles) and thus having an unstable income. Another point is you will need to work long hours in order to finish your degree, which might be a problem when you have to take care of your children. I think those are the main reason why the questions regarding your children are coming up. From an employer perspective, it can be seen as a problem or an obstacle.
If you are okay with having to work long hours, having a lower income and an unstable job, then leave the information about your children out of your CV.
You can still talk about it during an interview and highlight your ability to handle family and working long hours.
answered Aug 7 at 12:10
LaughULaughU
1,4341 gold badge8 silver badges18 bronze badges
As you didnt put a location I will bring in my German perspective:
Here, it is common to get only yearly contracts when working in academia(even for doctoral degree roles) and thus having an unstable income. Another point is you will need to work long hours in order to finish your degree, which might be a problem when you have to take care of your children. I think those are the main reason why the questions regarding your children are coming up. From an employer perspective, it can be seen as a problem or an obstacle.
If you are okay with having to work long hours, having a lower income and an unstable job, then leave the information about your children out of your CV.
You can still talk about it during an interview and highlight your ability to handle family and working long hours.
answered Aug 7 at 12:10
LaughULaughU
1,4341 gold badge8 silver badges18 bronze badges
answered Aug 7 at 12:10
LaughULaughU
1,4341 gold badge8 silver badges18 bronze badges
answered Aug 7 at 12:10
LaughULaughU
1,4341 gold badge8 silver badges18 bronze badges
answered Aug 7 at 12:10
LaughULaughU
1,4341 gold badge8 silver badges18 bronze badges
1,4341 gold badge8 silver badges18 bronze badges
3
For Germany, do you know the legality of rejecting someone based on having children? I couldn't find a direct reference for protections for parents, but if the company would have accepted a father but not a mother, that would be considered sex discrimination.
– David K
Aug 7 at 12:31
3
@SMa I thought most academia job require PhD degree and you are working toward a degree. Why do you think you can get an academic job without PhD? Are you looking for TA/RA job? Most TA/RAs are offered to graduate students. If you are a PhD student, you should be already a TA/RA. If you are working toward a master degree, the chance of getting academic job is slim.
– scaaahu
Aug 7 at 13:40
8
@SMa "research assistant which also offer the possibility to obtain a PhD" is legalese for "paid PhD position". The focus of your application needs to be on the PhD and not on becoming a research assistant. I hope you know this.
– Roland
Aug 7 at 14:26
3
@SMa I suspect that they are worried whether you can sustain the commitment for the necessary three to five years while having dependents (and being used to a good payment in the industry). You should try to address this worry preemptively.
– Roland
Aug 7 at 14:42
4
@SMa I'm not so familiar with the academic environment in Germany, but are you applying directly to a job, which you think will be a good gateway to the PhD program, or are you applying/have you applied to the PhD program and are now looking for a research job as a part of that? My confusion is because in the U.S. applying for an RA type of job without already being in the PhD program is unusual and a difficult route to follow.
– Upper_Case
Aug 7 at 15:21
|
show 6 more comments
3
For Germany, do you know the legality of rejecting someone based on having children? I couldn't find a direct reference for protections for parents, but if the company would have accepted a father but not a mother, that would be considered sex discrimination.
– David K
Aug 7 at 12:31
3
@SMa I thought most academia job require PhD degree and you are working toward a degree. Why do you think you can get an academic job without PhD? Are you looking for TA/RA job? Most TA/RAs are offered to graduate students. If you are a PhD student, you should be already a TA/RA. If you are working toward a master degree, the chance of getting academic job is slim.
– scaaahu
Aug 7 at 13:40
8
@SMa "research assistant which also offer the possibility to obtain a PhD" is legalese for "paid PhD position". The focus of your application needs to be on the PhD and not on becoming a research assistant. I hope you know this.
– Roland
Aug 7 at 14:26
3
@SMa I suspect that they are worried whether you can sustain the commitment for the necessary three to five years while having dependents (and being used to a good payment in the industry). You should try to address this worry preemptively.
– Roland
Aug 7 at 14:42
4
@SMa I'm not so familiar with the academic environment in Germany, but are you applying directly to a job, which you think will be a good gateway to the PhD program, or are you applying/have you applied to the PhD program and are now looking for a research job as a part of that? My confusion is because in the U.S. applying for an RA type of job without already being in the PhD program is unusual and a difficult route to follow.
– Upper_Case
Aug 7 at 15:21
3
3
For Germany, do you know the legality of rejecting someone based on having children? I couldn't find a direct reference for protections for parents, but if the company would have accepted a father but not a mother, that would be considered sex discrimination.
– David K
Aug 7 at 12:31
For Germany, do you know the legality of rejecting someone based on having children? I couldn't find a direct reference for protections for parents, but if the company would have accepted a father but not a mother, that would be considered sex discrimination.
– David K
Aug 7 at 12:31
3
3
@SMa I thought most academia job require PhD degree and you are working toward a degree. Why do you think you can get an academic job without PhD? Are you looking for TA/RA job? Most TA/RAs are offered to graduate students. If you are a PhD student, you should be already a TA/RA. If you are working toward a master degree, the chance of getting academic job is slim.
– scaaahu
Aug 7 at 13:40
@SMa I thought most academia job require PhD degree and you are working toward a degree. Why do you think you can get an academic job without PhD? Are you looking for TA/RA job? Most TA/RAs are offered to graduate students. If you are a PhD student, you should be already a TA/RA. If you are working toward a master degree, the chance of getting academic job is slim.
– scaaahu
Aug 7 at 13:40
8
8
@SMa "research assistant which also offer the possibility to obtain a PhD" is legalese for "paid PhD position". The focus of your application needs to be on the PhD and not on becoming a research assistant. I hope you know this.
– Roland
Aug 7 at 14:26
@SMa "research assistant which also offer the possibility to obtain a PhD" is legalese for "paid PhD position". The focus of your application needs to be on the PhD and not on becoming a research assistant. I hope you know this.
– Roland
Aug 7 at 14:26
3
3
@SMa I suspect that they are worried whether you can sustain the commitment for the necessary three to five years while having dependents (and being used to a good payment in the industry). You should try to address this worry preemptively.
– Roland
Aug 7 at 14:42
@SMa I suspect that they are worried whether you can sustain the commitment for the necessary three to five years while having dependents (and being used to a good payment in the industry). You should try to address this worry preemptively.
– Roland
Aug 7 at 14:42
4
4
@SMa I'm not so familiar with the academic environment in Germany, but are you applying directly to a job, which you think will be a good gateway to the PhD program, or are you applying/have you applied to the PhD program and are now looking for a research job as a part of that? My confusion is because in the U.S. applying for an RA type of job without already being in the PhD program is unusual and a difficult route to follow.
– Upper_Case
Aug 7 at 15:21
@SMa I'm not so familiar with the academic environment in Germany, but are you applying directly to a job, which you think will be a good gateway to the PhD program, or are you applying/have you applied to the PhD program and are now looking for a research job as a part of that? My confusion is because in the U.S. applying for an RA type of job without already being in the PhD program is unusual and a difficult route to follow.
– Upper_Case
Aug 7 at 15:21
|
show 6 more comments
I can only speak from personal experience, but most likely your children are not the reason: in Germany, it can be incredibly difficult to get into academia.
Our university has a daycare for children and if you can’t get a spot there and no one from your family can take care of your children while you are at work, you are allowed to take the children to work or pay a babysitter (which will partly be paid by the university).
I‘ve heard many times that it is difficult to get a job in academia, especially if they don’t know you and/or you didn’t study there. When I considered dropping out of academia and taking another job, a lot of people (from other universities as well) told me to reconsider, because it would be very hard for me to get back into an academic position after working in the industry. Even if your CV looks good and your experience is valuable, it is very likely that the children are not the reason, they just preferred someone they knew, someone who studied there or was recommended to them.
answered Aug 8 at 8:48
SnailshellSnailshell
1891 bronze badge
4
"Even if your CV looks good and your experience is valuable, it is very likely that the children are not the reason, they just preferred someone they knew, someone who studied there or was recommended to them" You should ask in academia.stackexchange.com too, but imho @Snailshell is correct in his assumption.
– K. Gkinis
Aug 8 at 9:15
add a comment |
I can only speak from personal experience, but most likely your children are not the reason: in Germany, it can be incredibly difficult to get into academia.
Our university has a daycare for children and if you can’t get a spot there and no one from your family can take care of your children while you are at work, you are allowed to take the children to work or pay a babysitter (which will partly be paid by the university).
I‘ve heard many times that it is difficult to get a job in academia, especially if they don’t know you and/or you didn’t study there. When I considered dropping out of academia and taking another job, a lot of people (from other universities as well) told me to reconsider, because it would be very hard for me to get back into an academic position after working in the industry. Even if your CV looks good and your experience is valuable, it is very likely that the children are not the reason, they just preferred someone they knew, someone who studied there or was recommended to them.
answered Aug 8 at 8:48
SnailshellSnailshell
1891 bronze badge
4
"Even if your CV looks good and your experience is valuable, it is very likely that the children are not the reason, they just preferred someone they knew, someone who studied there or was recommended to them" You should ask in academia.stackexchange.com too, but imho @Snailshell is correct in his assumption.
– K. Gkinis
Aug 8 at 9:15
add a comment |
I can only speak from personal experience, but most likely your children are not the reason: in Germany, it can be incredibly difficult to get into academia.
Our university has a daycare for children and if you can’t get a spot there and no one from your family can take care of your children while you are at work, you are allowed to take the children to work or pay a babysitter (which will partly be paid by the university).
I‘ve heard many times that it is difficult to get a job in academia, especially if they don’t know you and/or you didn’t study there. When I considered dropping out of academia and taking another job, a lot of people (from other universities as well) told me to reconsider, because it would be very hard for me to get back into an academic position after working in the industry. Even if your CV looks good and your experience is valuable, it is very likely that the children are not the reason, they just preferred someone they knew, someone who studied there or was recommended to them.
answered Aug 8 at 8:48
SnailshellSnailshell
1891 bronze badge
I can only speak from personal experience, but most likely your children are not the reason: in Germany, it can be incredibly difficult to get into academia.
Our university has a daycare for children and if you can’t get a spot there and no one from your family can take care of your children while you are at work, you are allowed to take the children to work or pay a babysitter (which will partly be paid by the university).
I‘ve heard many times that it is difficult to get a job in academia, especially if they don’t know you and/or you didn’t study there. When I considered dropping out of academia and taking another job, a lot of people (from other universities as well) told me to reconsider, because it would be very hard for me to get back into an academic position after working in the industry. Even if your CV looks good and your experience is valuable, it is very likely that the children are not the reason, they just preferred someone they knew, someone who studied there or was recommended to them.
answered Aug 8 at 8:48
SnailshellSnailshell
1891 bronze badge
answered Aug 8 at 8:48
SnailshellSnailshell
1891 bronze badge
answered Aug 8 at 8:48
SnailshellSnailshell
1891 bronze badge
answered Aug 8 at 8:48
SnailshellSnailshell
1891 bronze badge
1891 bronze badge
4
"Even if your CV looks good and your experience is valuable, it is very likely that the children are not the reason, they just preferred someone they knew, someone who studied there or was recommended to them" You should ask in academia.stackexchange.com too, but imho @Snailshell is correct in his assumption.
– K. Gkinis
Aug 8 at 9:15
add a comment |
4
"Even if your CV looks good and your experience is valuable, it is very likely that the children are not the reason, they just preferred someone they knew, someone who studied there or was recommended to them" You should ask in academia.stackexchange.com too, but imho @Snailshell is correct in his assumption.
– K. Gkinis
Aug 8 at 9:15
4
4
"Even if your CV looks good and your experience is valuable, it is very likely that the children are not the reason, they just preferred someone they knew, someone who studied there or was recommended to them" You should ask in academia.stackexchange.com too, but imho @Snailshell is correct in his assumption.
– K. Gkinis
Aug 8 at 9:15
"Even if your CV looks good and your experience is valuable, it is very likely that the children are not the reason, they just preferred someone they knew, someone who studied there or was recommended to them" You should ask in academia.stackexchange.com too, but imho @Snailshell is correct in his assumption.
– K. Gkinis
Aug 8 at 9:15
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to The Workplace Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworkplace.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f141743%2fare-children-a-reason-to-be-rejected-for-a-job%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
133
Why do you mention you have kids on your CV?
– Gregory Currie
Aug 7 at 12:00
24
For those that are wanting an answer to my question, i took a look online and it doesn't appear to be uncommon to include such information in Germany. I'll add the German tag as maybe my answer is not suitable for working in Germany.
– Gregory Currie
Aug 7 at 12:39
3
I see in one of the answer comments you are working on getting a degree. Do the positions require this degree? Also - it's possible they thought that this job + degree study + kids would be too much (rightly or wrongly)
– Smock
Aug 7 at 12:48
8
In the current economy, competition for industry jobs is lower than for academic jobs. You should at least consider other reasons why getting a position is harder than you are used to.
– Roland
Aug 7 at 13:47
8
"During a short interview by phone, the interviewer asked me if I carefully considered everything regarding such a position, since I have kids." Did you consider everything required for the position? I doubt they would reject you for having kids but they might reject you if they aren't satisfied with how you answer this question.
– AffableAmbler
Aug 7 at 14:30