The size of sheafificationThe single-plus construction is not the left adjoint of the inclusion of separated presheaves?Is Sheafification Functor Exact?Sheafification via hypercoversSheafification - Why does twice suffice?Sheafification of a presheaf through the etale spacefpqc sheafification and localisationI'll admit it: I don't understand the definition of the Easton product.Sheafification map is surjectiveOn computability of sheafificationOn a weak notion of sheaves on topological spaces
The size of sheafification
The single-plus construction is not the left adjoint of the inclusion of separated presheaves?Is Sheafification Functor Exact?Sheafification via hypercoversSheafification - Why does twice suffice?Sheafification of a presheaf through the etale spacefpqc sheafification and localisationI'll admit it: I don't understand the definition of the Easton product.Sheafification map is surjectiveOn computability of sheafificationOn a weak notion of sheaves on topological spaces
$begingroup$
Let $X$ be a small site. Let $aleph$ be an infinite cardinal, such that $|Ob(X)|leq aleph$ and $|Mor(X)|leq aleph$, where $Mor(X)$ is the set of all morphisms.
We define the size of a presheaf $F$ of sets (or abelian groups, or modules, or ...) as
$$
|F|=left|bigsqcup_Uin X F(U)right|
$$
In Flat Covers and Cotorsion Envelopes of Sheaves by Enochs and Oyonarte the authors mention in passing (on the last page) that if $|F|leq aleph$, then $|F^sh|leq aleph^aleph$. I was not able to find a reference, but I seem to have an argument for a much stronger bound. I am curious if and where I made a mistake.
For simplicity let us take presheaves of abelian groups for now.
It is well known that the sheafification can be constructed in two steps via the $(-)^nmid$ funtor defined as
$$
(F^nmid)(U)=textcolim_lbrace U_ito Urbracekerleft(prod F(U_i)to prod F(U_itimes_U U_j)right)
$$
Then for any presheaf $F^nmid$ is separated, and for a separated presheaf $F^nmid$ is a sheaf. In particular $(F^nmid)^nmid$ is always a sheaf.
Now if $|F|leq beth$ we can estimate $|F^nmid|$ as follows. Each kernel can have at most $alephtimes beth$ many elements. The colimit is constructed from the direct sum, which can be estimated from the product, and there are at most $2^alephtimesaleph=2^aleph$ many coverings. So we see
$$
|F^nmid(U)|leq 2^alephtimes beth
$$
and since there are at most $aleph$ objects we conclude $|F^nmid|leq 2^alephtimes beth$. In particular if $aleph=beth$ we find $|F^nmid|leq 2^aleph$ and $|F^sh|leq 2^aleph times2^aleph=2^aleph$, which is stronger than what Enochs and Oyonarte claimed.
set-theory sheaf-theory
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $X$ be a small site. Let $aleph$ be an infinite cardinal, such that $|Ob(X)|leq aleph$ and $|Mor(X)|leq aleph$, where $Mor(X)$ is the set of all morphisms.
We define the size of a presheaf $F$ of sets (or abelian groups, or modules, or ...) as
$$
|F|=left|bigsqcup_Uin X F(U)right|
$$
In Flat Covers and Cotorsion Envelopes of Sheaves by Enochs and Oyonarte the authors mention in passing (on the last page) that if $|F|leq aleph$, then $|F^sh|leq aleph^aleph$. I was not able to find a reference, but I seem to have an argument for a much stronger bound. I am curious if and where I made a mistake.
For simplicity let us take presheaves of abelian groups for now.
It is well known that the sheafification can be constructed in two steps via the $(-)^nmid$ funtor defined as
$$
(F^nmid)(U)=textcolim_lbrace U_ito Urbracekerleft(prod F(U_i)to prod F(U_itimes_U U_j)right)
$$
Then for any presheaf $F^nmid$ is separated, and for a separated presheaf $F^nmid$ is a sheaf. In particular $(F^nmid)^nmid$ is always a sheaf.
Now if $|F|leq beth$ we can estimate $|F^nmid|$ as follows. Each kernel can have at most $alephtimes beth$ many elements. The colimit is constructed from the direct sum, which can be estimated from the product, and there are at most $2^alephtimesaleph=2^aleph$ many coverings. So we see
$$
|F^nmid(U)|leq 2^alephtimes beth
$$
and since there are at most $aleph$ objects we conclude $|F^nmid|leq 2^alephtimes beth$. In particular if $aleph=beth$ we find $|F^nmid|leq 2^aleph$ and $|F^sh|leq 2^aleph times2^aleph=2^aleph$, which is stronger than what Enochs and Oyonarte claimed.
set-theory sheaf-theory
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
If I am not wrong, you are using that the cardinal is infinite. Using monotonicity in the base, in this case you have $2^aleph <= (aleph)^aleph <= (2^aleph)^aleph = 2^aleph times aleph = 2^aleph$ so that the bound is the same (I haven't checked the proof yet).
$endgroup$
– Andrea Marino
Aug 7 at 12:15
$begingroup$
Yes you are right, I forgot to add that.
$endgroup$
– Rene Recktenwald
Aug 7 at 12:36
1
$begingroup$
@Andrea: Weird that you know $aleph$ and $times$ but not $leq$.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila
Aug 7 at 12:47
$begingroup$
@asaf: ahaha lol. Its been a while that I don't tex-write down (I am on holiday)!
$endgroup$
– Andrea Marino
Aug 7 at 13:04
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $X$ be a small site. Let $aleph$ be an infinite cardinal, such that $|Ob(X)|leq aleph$ and $|Mor(X)|leq aleph$, where $Mor(X)$ is the set of all morphisms.
We define the size of a presheaf $F$ of sets (or abelian groups, or modules, or ...) as
$$
|F|=left|bigsqcup_Uin X F(U)right|
$$
In Flat Covers and Cotorsion Envelopes of Sheaves by Enochs and Oyonarte the authors mention in passing (on the last page) that if $|F|leq aleph$, then $|F^sh|leq aleph^aleph$. I was not able to find a reference, but I seem to have an argument for a much stronger bound. I am curious if and where I made a mistake.
For simplicity let us take presheaves of abelian groups for now.
It is well known that the sheafification can be constructed in two steps via the $(-)^nmid$ funtor defined as
$$
(F^nmid)(U)=textcolim_lbrace U_ito Urbracekerleft(prod F(U_i)to prod F(U_itimes_U U_j)right)
$$
Then for any presheaf $F^nmid$ is separated, and for a separated presheaf $F^nmid$ is a sheaf. In particular $(F^nmid)^nmid$ is always a sheaf.
Now if $|F|leq beth$ we can estimate $|F^nmid|$ as follows. Each kernel can have at most $alephtimes beth$ many elements. The colimit is constructed from the direct sum, which can be estimated from the product, and there are at most $2^alephtimesaleph=2^aleph$ many coverings. So we see
$$
|F^nmid(U)|leq 2^alephtimes beth
$$
and since there are at most $aleph$ objects we conclude $|F^nmid|leq 2^alephtimes beth$. In particular if $aleph=beth$ we find $|F^nmid|leq 2^aleph$ and $|F^sh|leq 2^aleph times2^aleph=2^aleph$, which is stronger than what Enochs and Oyonarte claimed.
set-theory sheaf-theory
$endgroup$
Let $X$ be a small site. Let $aleph$ be an infinite cardinal, such that $|Ob(X)|leq aleph$ and $|Mor(X)|leq aleph$, where $Mor(X)$ is the set of all morphisms.
We define the size of a presheaf $F$ of sets (or abelian groups, or modules, or ...) as
$$
|F|=left|bigsqcup_Uin X F(U)right|
$$
In Flat Covers and Cotorsion Envelopes of Sheaves by Enochs and Oyonarte the authors mention in passing (on the last page) that if $|F|leq aleph$, then $|F^sh|leq aleph^aleph$. I was not able to find a reference, but I seem to have an argument for a much stronger bound. I am curious if and where I made a mistake.
For simplicity let us take presheaves of abelian groups for now.
It is well known that the sheafification can be constructed in two steps via the $(-)^nmid$ funtor defined as
$$
(F^nmid)(U)=textcolim_lbrace U_ito Urbracekerleft(prod F(U_i)to prod F(U_itimes_U U_j)right)
$$
Then for any presheaf $F^nmid$ is separated, and for a separated presheaf $F^nmid$ is a sheaf. In particular $(F^nmid)^nmid$ is always a sheaf.
Now if $|F|leq beth$ we can estimate $|F^nmid|$ as follows. Each kernel can have at most $alephtimes beth$ many elements. The colimit is constructed from the direct sum, which can be estimated from the product, and there are at most $2^alephtimesaleph=2^aleph$ many coverings. So we see
$$
|F^nmid(U)|leq 2^alephtimes beth
$$
and since there are at most $aleph$ objects we conclude $|F^nmid|leq 2^alephtimes beth$. In particular if $aleph=beth$ we find $|F^nmid|leq 2^aleph$ and $|F^sh|leq 2^aleph times2^aleph=2^aleph$, which is stronger than what Enochs and Oyonarte claimed.
set-theory sheaf-theory
set-theory sheaf-theory
edited Aug 7 at 12:36
Rene Recktenwald
asked Aug 7 at 12:07
Rene RecktenwaldRene Recktenwald
2781 silver badge8 bronze badges
2781 silver badge8 bronze badges
3
$begingroup$
If I am not wrong, you are using that the cardinal is infinite. Using monotonicity in the base, in this case you have $2^aleph <= (aleph)^aleph <= (2^aleph)^aleph = 2^aleph times aleph = 2^aleph$ so that the bound is the same (I haven't checked the proof yet).
$endgroup$
– Andrea Marino
Aug 7 at 12:15
$begingroup$
Yes you are right, I forgot to add that.
$endgroup$
– Rene Recktenwald
Aug 7 at 12:36
1
$begingroup$
@Andrea: Weird that you know $aleph$ and $times$ but not $leq$.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila
Aug 7 at 12:47
$begingroup$
@asaf: ahaha lol. Its been a while that I don't tex-write down (I am on holiday)!
$endgroup$
– Andrea Marino
Aug 7 at 13:04
add a comment |
3
$begingroup$
If I am not wrong, you are using that the cardinal is infinite. Using monotonicity in the base, in this case you have $2^aleph <= (aleph)^aleph <= (2^aleph)^aleph = 2^aleph times aleph = 2^aleph$ so that the bound is the same (I haven't checked the proof yet).
$endgroup$
– Andrea Marino
Aug 7 at 12:15
$begingroup$
Yes you are right, I forgot to add that.
$endgroup$
– Rene Recktenwald
Aug 7 at 12:36
1
$begingroup$
@Andrea: Weird that you know $aleph$ and $times$ but not $leq$.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila
Aug 7 at 12:47
$begingroup$
@asaf: ahaha lol. Its been a while that I don't tex-write down (I am on holiday)!
$endgroup$
– Andrea Marino
Aug 7 at 13:04
3
3
$begingroup$
If I am not wrong, you are using that the cardinal is infinite. Using monotonicity in the base, in this case you have $2^aleph <= (aleph)^aleph <= (2^aleph)^aleph = 2^aleph times aleph = 2^aleph$ so that the bound is the same (I haven't checked the proof yet).
$endgroup$
– Andrea Marino
Aug 7 at 12:15
$begingroup$
If I am not wrong, you are using that the cardinal is infinite. Using monotonicity in the base, in this case you have $2^aleph <= (aleph)^aleph <= (2^aleph)^aleph = 2^aleph times aleph = 2^aleph$ so that the bound is the same (I haven't checked the proof yet).
$endgroup$
– Andrea Marino
Aug 7 at 12:15
$begingroup$
Yes you are right, I forgot to add that.
$endgroup$
– Rene Recktenwald
Aug 7 at 12:36
$begingroup$
Yes you are right, I forgot to add that.
$endgroup$
– Rene Recktenwald
Aug 7 at 12:36
1
1
$begingroup$
@Andrea: Weird that you know $aleph$ and $times$ but not $leq$.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila
Aug 7 at 12:47
$begingroup$
@Andrea: Weird that you know $aleph$ and $times$ but not $leq$.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila
Aug 7 at 12:47
$begingroup$
@asaf: ahaha lol. Its been a while that I don't tex-write down (I am on holiday)!
$endgroup$
– Andrea Marino
Aug 7 at 13:04
$begingroup$
@asaf: ahaha lol. Its been a while that I don't tex-write down (I am on holiday)!
$endgroup$
– Andrea Marino
Aug 7 at 13:04
add a comment |
1 Answer
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$begingroup$
I'm going to write "$kappa$" for your "$aleph$," to more consistently match set-theoretic usage.
While $2^kappa$ appears a sharper bound than $kappa^kappa$, they are in fact the same (for infinite $kappa$ at least, and I don't think finite $kappa$ are important here). $2^kappalekappa^kappa$ is clear. For the other direction, we have $kappale 2^kappa$, so $$kappa^kappale(2^kappa)^kappa=2^kappatimeskappa=2^kappa.$$ More generally, whenever $kappa$ is infinite and $2<lambda<kappa$ we have $2^kappa=lambda^kappa=kappa^kappa$.
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add a comment |
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$begingroup$
I'm going to write "$kappa$" for your "$aleph$," to more consistently match set-theoretic usage.
While $2^kappa$ appears a sharper bound than $kappa^kappa$, they are in fact the same (for infinite $kappa$ at least, and I don't think finite $kappa$ are important here). $2^kappalekappa^kappa$ is clear. For the other direction, we have $kappale 2^kappa$, so $$kappa^kappale(2^kappa)^kappa=2^kappatimeskappa=2^kappa.$$ More generally, whenever $kappa$ is infinite and $2<lambda<kappa$ we have $2^kappa=lambda^kappa=kappa^kappa$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I'm going to write "$kappa$" for your "$aleph$," to more consistently match set-theoretic usage.
While $2^kappa$ appears a sharper bound than $kappa^kappa$, they are in fact the same (for infinite $kappa$ at least, and I don't think finite $kappa$ are important here). $2^kappalekappa^kappa$ is clear. For the other direction, we have $kappale 2^kappa$, so $$kappa^kappale(2^kappa)^kappa=2^kappatimeskappa=2^kappa.$$ More generally, whenever $kappa$ is infinite and $2<lambda<kappa$ we have $2^kappa=lambda^kappa=kappa^kappa$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I'm going to write "$kappa$" for your "$aleph$," to more consistently match set-theoretic usage.
While $2^kappa$ appears a sharper bound than $kappa^kappa$, they are in fact the same (for infinite $kappa$ at least, and I don't think finite $kappa$ are important here). $2^kappalekappa^kappa$ is clear. For the other direction, we have $kappale 2^kappa$, so $$kappa^kappale(2^kappa)^kappa=2^kappatimeskappa=2^kappa.$$ More generally, whenever $kappa$ is infinite and $2<lambda<kappa$ we have $2^kappa=lambda^kappa=kappa^kappa$.
$endgroup$
I'm going to write "$kappa$" for your "$aleph$," to more consistently match set-theoretic usage.
While $2^kappa$ appears a sharper bound than $kappa^kappa$, they are in fact the same (for infinite $kappa$ at least, and I don't think finite $kappa$ are important here). $2^kappalekappa^kappa$ is clear. For the other direction, we have $kappale 2^kappa$, so $$kappa^kappale(2^kappa)^kappa=2^kappatimeskappa=2^kappa.$$ More generally, whenever $kappa$ is infinite and $2<lambda<kappa$ we have $2^kappa=lambda^kappa=kappa^kappa$.
answered Aug 7 at 12:26
Noah SchweberNoah Schweber
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$begingroup$
If I am not wrong, you are using that the cardinal is infinite. Using monotonicity in the base, in this case you have $2^aleph <= (aleph)^aleph <= (2^aleph)^aleph = 2^aleph times aleph = 2^aleph$ so that the bound is the same (I haven't checked the proof yet).
$endgroup$
– Andrea Marino
Aug 7 at 12:15
$begingroup$
Yes you are right, I forgot to add that.
$endgroup$
– Rene Recktenwald
Aug 7 at 12:36
1
$begingroup$
@Andrea: Weird that you know $aleph$ and $times$ but not $leq$.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila
Aug 7 at 12:47
$begingroup$
@asaf: ahaha lol. Its been a while that I don't tex-write down (I am on holiday)!
$endgroup$
– Andrea Marino
Aug 7 at 13:04