Why are vacuum tubes still used in amateur radios? Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern) Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?How to detect common-mode currents or “RF in the shack”?Would a switched RF attenuator be (a)symmetric?Are there famous radio frequencies?What were the reasons why ATIS identification was introduced?Is there a practical way for hams to participate in cellular-related technology advances?Multi-band Crystal Receiver?Pentode vs. Triode in Tuned RF Reflex ReceiverWhat additional information do I get from an RF ammeter, as compared to a regular SWR/wattmeter?Toroid Coupling Issue in Common-base AmplifierWill I get cleaner keying by keying the oscillator, or interrupting the amplifier B+?

Why can't fire hurt Daenerys but it did to Jon Snow in season 1?

How does the body cool itself in a stillsuit?

One-one communication

Where did Ptolemy compare the Earth to the distance of fixed stars?

.bashrc alias for a command with fixed second parameter

Is the Mordenkainen's Sword spell underpowered?

Is there a spell that can create a permanent fire?

Can gravitational waves pass through a black hole?

Did John Wesley plagiarize Matthew Henry...?

Besides transaction validation, are there any other uses of the Script language in Bitcoin

Where and when has Thucydides been studied?

My mentor says to set image to Fine instead of RAW — how is this different from JPG?

Short story about astronauts fertilizing soil with their own bodies

Calculation of line of sight system gain

Why complex landing gears are used instead of simple, reliable and light weight muscle wire or shape memory alloys?

Table formatting with tabularx?

calculator's angle answer for trig ratios that can work in more than 1 quadrant on the unit circle

Is this Half-dragon Quaggoth boss monster balanced?

First paper to introduce the "principal-agent problem"

Can two people see the same photon?

3D Masyu - A Die

How do I find my Spellcasting Ability for my D&D character?

Weaponising the Grasp-at-a-Distance spell

How to make an animal which can only breed for a certain number of generations?



Why are vacuum tubes still used in amateur radios?



Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?How to detect common-mode currents or “RF in the shack”?Would a switched RF attenuator be (a)symmetric?Are there famous radio frequencies?What were the reasons why ATIS identification was introduced?Is there a practical way for hams to participate in cellular-related technology advances?Multi-band Crystal Receiver?Pentode vs. Triode in Tuned RF Reflex ReceiverWhat additional information do I get from an RF ammeter, as compared to a regular SWR/wattmeter?Toroid Coupling Issue in Common-base AmplifierWill I get cleaner keying by keying the oscillator, or interrupting the amplifier B+?










13












$begingroup$


I wonder, even in this modern generation why the outdated vacuum tubes are used. In other electronic circuits they have been replaced by more efficient (and small) transistors years ago. Why they are still used?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Sumithran is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    While vacuum tubes are still used in linear amplifiers, I can't think of any transceiver made in the last 20+ years that used any vacuum tubes Do you know of any?
    $endgroup$
    – Mike Waters
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    Back of brain whispers that intermodulation behaviour in the presence of a strong interfering signal was long ago better with the best vacuum tubes than the best semiconductors. Back of brain is quite old and those days may well have gone. Someone will know.
    $endgroup$
    – Russell McMahon
    yesterday















13












$begingroup$


I wonder, even in this modern generation why the outdated vacuum tubes are used. In other electronic circuits they have been replaced by more efficient (and small) transistors years ago. Why they are still used?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Sumithran is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    While vacuum tubes are still used in linear amplifiers, I can't think of any transceiver made in the last 20+ years that used any vacuum tubes Do you know of any?
    $endgroup$
    – Mike Waters
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    Back of brain whispers that intermodulation behaviour in the presence of a strong interfering signal was long ago better with the best vacuum tubes than the best semiconductors. Back of brain is quite old and those days may well have gone. Someone will know.
    $endgroup$
    – Russell McMahon
    yesterday













13












13








13


1



$begingroup$


I wonder, even in this modern generation why the outdated vacuum tubes are used. In other electronic circuits they have been replaced by more efficient (and small) transistors years ago. Why they are still used?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Sumithran is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




I wonder, even in this modern generation why the outdated vacuum tubes are used. In other electronic circuits they have been replaced by more efficient (and small) transistors years ago. Why they are still used?







equipment-design history vacuum-tubes






share|improve this question









New contributor




Sumithran is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




Sumithran is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Apr 19 at 2:03









Kevin Reid AG6YO

16.8k33272




16.8k33272






New contributor




Sumithran is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked Apr 19 at 1:45









SumithranSumithran

197113




197113




New contributor




Sumithran is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





Sumithran is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Sumithran is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











  • $begingroup$
    While vacuum tubes are still used in linear amplifiers, I can't think of any transceiver made in the last 20+ years that used any vacuum tubes Do you know of any?
    $endgroup$
    – Mike Waters
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    Back of brain whispers that intermodulation behaviour in the presence of a strong interfering signal was long ago better with the best vacuum tubes than the best semiconductors. Back of brain is quite old and those days may well have gone. Someone will know.
    $endgroup$
    – Russell McMahon
    yesterday
















  • $begingroup$
    While vacuum tubes are still used in linear amplifiers, I can't think of any transceiver made in the last 20+ years that used any vacuum tubes Do you know of any?
    $endgroup$
    – Mike Waters
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    Back of brain whispers that intermodulation behaviour in the presence of a strong interfering signal was long ago better with the best vacuum tubes than the best semiconductors. Back of brain is quite old and those days may well have gone. Someone will know.
    $endgroup$
    – Russell McMahon
    yesterday















$begingroup$
While vacuum tubes are still used in linear amplifiers, I can't think of any transceiver made in the last 20+ years that used any vacuum tubes Do you know of any?
$endgroup$
– Mike Waters
yesterday




$begingroup$
While vacuum tubes are still used in linear amplifiers, I can't think of any transceiver made in the last 20+ years that used any vacuum tubes Do you know of any?
$endgroup$
– Mike Waters
yesterday












$begingroup$
Back of brain whispers that intermodulation behaviour in the presence of a strong interfering signal was long ago better with the best vacuum tubes than the best semiconductors. Back of brain is quite old and those days may well have gone. Someone will know.
$endgroup$
– Russell McMahon
yesterday




$begingroup$
Back of brain whispers that intermodulation behaviour in the presence of a strong interfering signal was long ago better with the best vacuum tubes than the best semiconductors. Back of brain is quite old and those days may well have gone. Someone will know.
$endgroup$
– Russell McMahon
yesterday










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















13












$begingroup$

The last mass-produced vacuum tube was the Cathode Ray Tube, Thankfully those are now going the way of the dodo, replaced with much more practical LCD or OLED displays.



(Edit: it turns out the magnetron is still mass-produced, for microwave ovens. Although apparently semiconductor replacements already exist, and soon the magnetron will go the way of the CRT.)



However, for some applications a vacuum tube is still more practical.



Vacuum tubes are (by their nature) high voltage, low current devices; semiconductors are by contrast lower voltage, higher current devices.



The failure mode for vacuum tubes in case of over-voltage is mostly arcing. This does damage the tube, but if it's caught in time it need not be catastrophic. Since the tube's components are made of metal, they tend to go up in resistance (thus limiting the current passing through them) as their temperature rises.



The failure mode for semiconductors tends to be self-destruction. Semiconductors have an awkward property that as they get hotter the resistance goes down, and this leads to thermal runaway, where the device gets hotter still, which lowers the resistance even more, until the device is destroyed.



So in a high-temperature environment, vacuum tubes can be more robust. And this especially applies in high-power applications.



Where high-power amplifiers are made of semiconductors, they tend to run at around 50v and tens of amps. Where vacuum tubes are used, they tend to run in the hundreds of milliamps (which is a lot for a vacuum tube), but in the thousands of volts. The final result is the same because volts x amps makes watts.



For this reason, you will still find transmitters around the world that use vacuum tubes (valves, as they are known in the UK), an example of which is highlighted in this article about the BBC's long wave transmitters from 2011.



Power semiconductors can be very expensive, especially ones that can work at high radio frequencies. It can still be cheaper to have an amplifier with one or two tubes as the 'final', with all the high voltage inside it, than it is to have a much lower voltage, safer semiconductor amplifier for amateur use. The tube amplifier will tend to be more robust, too.



Wikipedia says something very similar about how tubes are more robust at higher powers, on their page on radio transmitter design






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Aren't some vacuum tubes still being mass produced, such as ceramic-and-metal RF power amplifier tubes? Their numbers often start with 3CX or 4CX. They contain no glass, which is what I think you meant.
    $endgroup$
    – Mike Waters
    2 days ago











  • $begingroup$
    They are still produced, but not what I would call mass produced - nowhere near the volume in which cathode ray tubes were produced after televisions became popular, until LCD panels became economically viable
    $endgroup$
    – Scott Earle
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    Hmmm, turns out that there is still one vacuum tube being mass-produced: the magnetron used in microwave ovens ...
    $endgroup$
    – Scott Earle
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    Is the Magnetron the only one that is being mass-produced?
    $endgroup$
    – Mike Waters
    yesterday











  • $begingroup$
    It’s the only one I was able to turn up as being mass-produced still. Sure, radar klystrons and the like are still being made, as are audio and RF tubes. But they really are only for a niche market
    $endgroup$
    – Scott Earle
    yesterday


















8












$begingroup$

As far as I know, vacuum tubes are used in newly-manufactured radio equipment (as opposed to still-in-use old equipment) for one purpose: high-power amplifiers. The advantages of vacuum tubes in this application are essentially from the fact that the tube can be built as a large and sturdy device.



  • Semiconductor devices may fail due to overheating which changes the properties of the semiconductor material in ways which lead to further heating and destruction; vacuum tubes can run hot and be made of large metal structures which are more robust against heat and can conduct it away to external heat sinks more readily.


  • Semiconductor devices may fail due to excessive voltage across them, and improving voltage rating is a difficult engineering problem — vacuum tubes can have physically large elements which the high voltage would have to arc between (through vacuum) to cause failure. In RF applications, high voltages may arise at the output of an amplifier due to poor impedance matching — which can happen while in operation due to changing frequency or damage to the antenna or feed line.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$




















    7












    $begingroup$

    Vacuum tubes are neither outdated nor less efficient. See https://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/devices/the-quest-for-the-ultimate-vacuum-tube



    The above IEEE Spectrum article talks about a vacuum tube amplifier that is more efficient than any solid state amplifier.



    This is just one example of active research on vacuum tubes.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$








    • 2




      $begingroup$
      Fully agreed! Every microwave oven uses a magnetron (a type of vacuum type). AFAIK, semiconductors haven't caught up yet
      $endgroup$
      – DaveBoltman
      yesterday


















    3












    $begingroup$

    There's one more reason vacuum tubes are still used in amateur radios: personal preference of the amateur building the radio.



    Speaking for myself, I understand what's going on inside a vacuum tube much more clearly and deeply than I do the internal physics of a transistor. Further, it's much more comfortable (for me) to think in terms of increasing voltage to increase power output, than it is to find a way to increase current without burning something out.



    Put those factors together, and anything I build from scratch is almost certain to include tubes/valves, because that's where my comfort zone lies. There's the possibility it will also include transistors, possibly even integrated circuits (because op amps and IC audio amps are so convenient and easy to use) -- but it will revolve around those triodes, tetrodes, and pentodes.



    Oh, one other reason for my preference for tubes: if a tube fails, you just wiggle it out of its socket and plug in a "new" one. With transistors, it's hard to tell which one is bad, and you have to (at least) desolder the old one to replace it. A new tube costs more than a new transistor, but to me, the ease of troubleshooting and replacement wins.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













      Your Answer






      StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
      return StackExchange.using("schematics", function ()
      StackExchange.schematics.init();
      );
      , "cicuitlab");

      StackExchange.ready(function()
      var channelOptions =
      tags: "".split(" "),
      id: "520"
      ;
      initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

      StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
      // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
      if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
      StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
      createEditor();
      );

      else
      createEditor();

      );

      function createEditor()
      StackExchange.prepareEditor(
      heartbeatType: 'answer',
      autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
      convertImagesToLinks: false,
      noModals: true,
      showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
      reputationToPostImages: null,
      bindNavPrevention: true,
      postfix: "",
      imageUploader:
      brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
      contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
      allowUrls: true
      ,
      noCode: true, onDemand: true,
      discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
      ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
      );



      );






      Sumithran is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









      draft saved

      draft discarded


















      StackExchange.ready(
      function ()
      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fham.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f13344%2fwhy-are-vacuum-tubes-still-used-in-amateur-radios%23new-answer', 'question_page');

      );

      Post as a guest















      Required, but never shown

























      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes








      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      13












      $begingroup$

      The last mass-produced vacuum tube was the Cathode Ray Tube, Thankfully those are now going the way of the dodo, replaced with much more practical LCD or OLED displays.



      (Edit: it turns out the magnetron is still mass-produced, for microwave ovens. Although apparently semiconductor replacements already exist, and soon the magnetron will go the way of the CRT.)



      However, for some applications a vacuum tube is still more practical.



      Vacuum tubes are (by their nature) high voltage, low current devices; semiconductors are by contrast lower voltage, higher current devices.



      The failure mode for vacuum tubes in case of over-voltage is mostly arcing. This does damage the tube, but if it's caught in time it need not be catastrophic. Since the tube's components are made of metal, they tend to go up in resistance (thus limiting the current passing through them) as their temperature rises.



      The failure mode for semiconductors tends to be self-destruction. Semiconductors have an awkward property that as they get hotter the resistance goes down, and this leads to thermal runaway, where the device gets hotter still, which lowers the resistance even more, until the device is destroyed.



      So in a high-temperature environment, vacuum tubes can be more robust. And this especially applies in high-power applications.



      Where high-power amplifiers are made of semiconductors, they tend to run at around 50v and tens of amps. Where vacuum tubes are used, they tend to run in the hundreds of milliamps (which is a lot for a vacuum tube), but in the thousands of volts. The final result is the same because volts x amps makes watts.



      For this reason, you will still find transmitters around the world that use vacuum tubes (valves, as they are known in the UK), an example of which is highlighted in this article about the BBC's long wave transmitters from 2011.



      Power semiconductors can be very expensive, especially ones that can work at high radio frequencies. It can still be cheaper to have an amplifier with one or two tubes as the 'final', with all the high voltage inside it, than it is to have a much lower voltage, safer semiconductor amplifier for amateur use. The tube amplifier will tend to be more robust, too.



      Wikipedia says something very similar about how tubes are more robust at higher powers, on their page on radio transmitter design






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$








      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Aren't some vacuum tubes still being mass produced, such as ceramic-and-metal RF power amplifier tubes? Their numbers often start with 3CX or 4CX. They contain no glass, which is what I think you meant.
        $endgroup$
        – Mike Waters
        2 days ago











      • $begingroup$
        They are still produced, but not what I would call mass produced - nowhere near the volume in which cathode ray tubes were produced after televisions became popular, until LCD panels became economically viable
        $endgroup$
        – Scott Earle
        yesterday










      • $begingroup$
        Hmmm, turns out that there is still one vacuum tube being mass-produced: the magnetron used in microwave ovens ...
        $endgroup$
        – Scott Earle
        yesterday










      • $begingroup$
        Is the Magnetron the only one that is being mass-produced?
        $endgroup$
        – Mike Waters
        yesterday











      • $begingroup$
        It’s the only one I was able to turn up as being mass-produced still. Sure, radar klystrons and the like are still being made, as are audio and RF tubes. But they really are only for a niche market
        $endgroup$
        – Scott Earle
        yesterday















      13












      $begingroup$

      The last mass-produced vacuum tube was the Cathode Ray Tube, Thankfully those are now going the way of the dodo, replaced with much more practical LCD or OLED displays.



      (Edit: it turns out the magnetron is still mass-produced, for microwave ovens. Although apparently semiconductor replacements already exist, and soon the magnetron will go the way of the CRT.)



      However, for some applications a vacuum tube is still more practical.



      Vacuum tubes are (by their nature) high voltage, low current devices; semiconductors are by contrast lower voltage, higher current devices.



      The failure mode for vacuum tubes in case of over-voltage is mostly arcing. This does damage the tube, but if it's caught in time it need not be catastrophic. Since the tube's components are made of metal, they tend to go up in resistance (thus limiting the current passing through them) as their temperature rises.



      The failure mode for semiconductors tends to be self-destruction. Semiconductors have an awkward property that as they get hotter the resistance goes down, and this leads to thermal runaway, where the device gets hotter still, which lowers the resistance even more, until the device is destroyed.



      So in a high-temperature environment, vacuum tubes can be more robust. And this especially applies in high-power applications.



      Where high-power amplifiers are made of semiconductors, they tend to run at around 50v and tens of amps. Where vacuum tubes are used, they tend to run in the hundreds of milliamps (which is a lot for a vacuum tube), but in the thousands of volts. The final result is the same because volts x amps makes watts.



      For this reason, you will still find transmitters around the world that use vacuum tubes (valves, as they are known in the UK), an example of which is highlighted in this article about the BBC's long wave transmitters from 2011.



      Power semiconductors can be very expensive, especially ones that can work at high radio frequencies. It can still be cheaper to have an amplifier with one or two tubes as the 'final', with all the high voltage inside it, than it is to have a much lower voltage, safer semiconductor amplifier for amateur use. The tube amplifier will tend to be more robust, too.



      Wikipedia says something very similar about how tubes are more robust at higher powers, on their page on radio transmitter design






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$








      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Aren't some vacuum tubes still being mass produced, such as ceramic-and-metal RF power amplifier tubes? Their numbers often start with 3CX or 4CX. They contain no glass, which is what I think you meant.
        $endgroup$
        – Mike Waters
        2 days ago











      • $begingroup$
        They are still produced, but not what I would call mass produced - nowhere near the volume in which cathode ray tubes were produced after televisions became popular, until LCD panels became economically viable
        $endgroup$
        – Scott Earle
        yesterday










      • $begingroup$
        Hmmm, turns out that there is still one vacuum tube being mass-produced: the magnetron used in microwave ovens ...
        $endgroup$
        – Scott Earle
        yesterday










      • $begingroup$
        Is the Magnetron the only one that is being mass-produced?
        $endgroup$
        – Mike Waters
        yesterday











      • $begingroup$
        It’s the only one I was able to turn up as being mass-produced still. Sure, radar klystrons and the like are still being made, as are audio and RF tubes. But they really are only for a niche market
        $endgroup$
        – Scott Earle
        yesterday













      13












      13








      13





      $begingroup$

      The last mass-produced vacuum tube was the Cathode Ray Tube, Thankfully those are now going the way of the dodo, replaced with much more practical LCD or OLED displays.



      (Edit: it turns out the magnetron is still mass-produced, for microwave ovens. Although apparently semiconductor replacements already exist, and soon the magnetron will go the way of the CRT.)



      However, for some applications a vacuum tube is still more practical.



      Vacuum tubes are (by their nature) high voltage, low current devices; semiconductors are by contrast lower voltage, higher current devices.



      The failure mode for vacuum tubes in case of over-voltage is mostly arcing. This does damage the tube, but if it's caught in time it need not be catastrophic. Since the tube's components are made of metal, they tend to go up in resistance (thus limiting the current passing through them) as their temperature rises.



      The failure mode for semiconductors tends to be self-destruction. Semiconductors have an awkward property that as they get hotter the resistance goes down, and this leads to thermal runaway, where the device gets hotter still, which lowers the resistance even more, until the device is destroyed.



      So in a high-temperature environment, vacuum tubes can be more robust. And this especially applies in high-power applications.



      Where high-power amplifiers are made of semiconductors, they tend to run at around 50v and tens of amps. Where vacuum tubes are used, they tend to run in the hundreds of milliamps (which is a lot for a vacuum tube), but in the thousands of volts. The final result is the same because volts x amps makes watts.



      For this reason, you will still find transmitters around the world that use vacuum tubes (valves, as they are known in the UK), an example of which is highlighted in this article about the BBC's long wave transmitters from 2011.



      Power semiconductors can be very expensive, especially ones that can work at high radio frequencies. It can still be cheaper to have an amplifier with one or two tubes as the 'final', with all the high voltage inside it, than it is to have a much lower voltage, safer semiconductor amplifier for amateur use. The tube amplifier will tend to be more robust, too.



      Wikipedia says something very similar about how tubes are more robust at higher powers, on their page on radio transmitter design






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$



      The last mass-produced vacuum tube was the Cathode Ray Tube, Thankfully those are now going the way of the dodo, replaced with much more practical LCD or OLED displays.



      (Edit: it turns out the magnetron is still mass-produced, for microwave ovens. Although apparently semiconductor replacements already exist, and soon the magnetron will go the way of the CRT.)



      However, for some applications a vacuum tube is still more practical.



      Vacuum tubes are (by their nature) high voltage, low current devices; semiconductors are by contrast lower voltage, higher current devices.



      The failure mode for vacuum tubes in case of over-voltage is mostly arcing. This does damage the tube, but if it's caught in time it need not be catastrophic. Since the tube's components are made of metal, they tend to go up in resistance (thus limiting the current passing through them) as their temperature rises.



      The failure mode for semiconductors tends to be self-destruction. Semiconductors have an awkward property that as they get hotter the resistance goes down, and this leads to thermal runaway, where the device gets hotter still, which lowers the resistance even more, until the device is destroyed.



      So in a high-temperature environment, vacuum tubes can be more robust. And this especially applies in high-power applications.



      Where high-power amplifiers are made of semiconductors, they tend to run at around 50v and tens of amps. Where vacuum tubes are used, they tend to run in the hundreds of milliamps (which is a lot for a vacuum tube), but in the thousands of volts. The final result is the same because volts x amps makes watts.



      For this reason, you will still find transmitters around the world that use vacuum tubes (valves, as they are known in the UK), an example of which is highlighted in this article about the BBC's long wave transmitters from 2011.



      Power semiconductors can be very expensive, especially ones that can work at high radio frequencies. It can still be cheaper to have an amplifier with one or two tubes as the 'final', with all the high voltage inside it, than it is to have a much lower voltage, safer semiconductor amplifier for amateur use. The tube amplifier will tend to be more robust, too.



      Wikipedia says something very similar about how tubes are more robust at higher powers, on their page on radio transmitter design







      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited yesterday

























      answered 2 days ago









      Scott EarleScott Earle

      2,5991922




      2,5991922







      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Aren't some vacuum tubes still being mass produced, such as ceramic-and-metal RF power amplifier tubes? Their numbers often start with 3CX or 4CX. They contain no glass, which is what I think you meant.
        $endgroup$
        – Mike Waters
        2 days ago











      • $begingroup$
        They are still produced, but not what I would call mass produced - nowhere near the volume in which cathode ray tubes were produced after televisions became popular, until LCD panels became economically viable
        $endgroup$
        – Scott Earle
        yesterday










      • $begingroup$
        Hmmm, turns out that there is still one vacuum tube being mass-produced: the magnetron used in microwave ovens ...
        $endgroup$
        – Scott Earle
        yesterday










      • $begingroup$
        Is the Magnetron the only one that is being mass-produced?
        $endgroup$
        – Mike Waters
        yesterday











      • $begingroup$
        It’s the only one I was able to turn up as being mass-produced still. Sure, radar klystrons and the like are still being made, as are audio and RF tubes. But they really are only for a niche market
        $endgroup$
        – Scott Earle
        yesterday












      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Aren't some vacuum tubes still being mass produced, such as ceramic-and-metal RF power amplifier tubes? Their numbers often start with 3CX or 4CX. They contain no glass, which is what I think you meant.
        $endgroup$
        – Mike Waters
        2 days ago











      • $begingroup$
        They are still produced, but not what I would call mass produced - nowhere near the volume in which cathode ray tubes were produced after televisions became popular, until LCD panels became economically viable
        $endgroup$
        – Scott Earle
        yesterday










      • $begingroup$
        Hmmm, turns out that there is still one vacuum tube being mass-produced: the magnetron used in microwave ovens ...
        $endgroup$
        – Scott Earle
        yesterday










      • $begingroup$
        Is the Magnetron the only one that is being mass-produced?
        $endgroup$
        – Mike Waters
        yesterday











      • $begingroup$
        It’s the only one I was able to turn up as being mass-produced still. Sure, radar klystrons and the like are still being made, as are audio and RF tubes. But they really are only for a niche market
        $endgroup$
        – Scott Earle
        yesterday







      1




      1




      $begingroup$
      Aren't some vacuum tubes still being mass produced, such as ceramic-and-metal RF power amplifier tubes? Their numbers often start with 3CX or 4CX. They contain no glass, which is what I think you meant.
      $endgroup$
      – Mike Waters
      2 days ago





      $begingroup$
      Aren't some vacuum tubes still being mass produced, such as ceramic-and-metal RF power amplifier tubes? Their numbers often start with 3CX or 4CX. They contain no glass, which is what I think you meant.
      $endgroup$
      – Mike Waters
      2 days ago













      $begingroup$
      They are still produced, but not what I would call mass produced - nowhere near the volume in which cathode ray tubes were produced after televisions became popular, until LCD panels became economically viable
      $endgroup$
      – Scott Earle
      yesterday




      $begingroup$
      They are still produced, but not what I would call mass produced - nowhere near the volume in which cathode ray tubes were produced after televisions became popular, until LCD panels became economically viable
      $endgroup$
      – Scott Earle
      yesterday












      $begingroup$
      Hmmm, turns out that there is still one vacuum tube being mass-produced: the magnetron used in microwave ovens ...
      $endgroup$
      – Scott Earle
      yesterday




      $begingroup$
      Hmmm, turns out that there is still one vacuum tube being mass-produced: the magnetron used in microwave ovens ...
      $endgroup$
      – Scott Earle
      yesterday












      $begingroup$
      Is the Magnetron the only one that is being mass-produced?
      $endgroup$
      – Mike Waters
      yesterday





      $begingroup$
      Is the Magnetron the only one that is being mass-produced?
      $endgroup$
      – Mike Waters
      yesterday













      $begingroup$
      It’s the only one I was able to turn up as being mass-produced still. Sure, radar klystrons and the like are still being made, as are audio and RF tubes. But they really are only for a niche market
      $endgroup$
      – Scott Earle
      yesterday




      $begingroup$
      It’s the only one I was able to turn up as being mass-produced still. Sure, radar klystrons and the like are still being made, as are audio and RF tubes. But they really are only for a niche market
      $endgroup$
      – Scott Earle
      yesterday











      8












      $begingroup$

      As far as I know, vacuum tubes are used in newly-manufactured radio equipment (as opposed to still-in-use old equipment) for one purpose: high-power amplifiers. The advantages of vacuum tubes in this application are essentially from the fact that the tube can be built as a large and sturdy device.



      • Semiconductor devices may fail due to overheating which changes the properties of the semiconductor material in ways which lead to further heating and destruction; vacuum tubes can run hot and be made of large metal structures which are more robust against heat and can conduct it away to external heat sinks more readily.


      • Semiconductor devices may fail due to excessive voltage across them, and improving voltage rating is a difficult engineering problem — vacuum tubes can have physically large elements which the high voltage would have to arc between (through vacuum) to cause failure. In RF applications, high voltages may arise at the output of an amplifier due to poor impedance matching — which can happen while in operation due to changing frequency or damage to the antenna or feed line.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$

















        8












        $begingroup$

        As far as I know, vacuum tubes are used in newly-manufactured radio equipment (as opposed to still-in-use old equipment) for one purpose: high-power amplifiers. The advantages of vacuum tubes in this application are essentially from the fact that the tube can be built as a large and sturdy device.



        • Semiconductor devices may fail due to overheating which changes the properties of the semiconductor material in ways which lead to further heating and destruction; vacuum tubes can run hot and be made of large metal structures which are more robust against heat and can conduct it away to external heat sinks more readily.


        • Semiconductor devices may fail due to excessive voltage across them, and improving voltage rating is a difficult engineering problem — vacuum tubes can have physically large elements which the high voltage would have to arc between (through vacuum) to cause failure. In RF applications, high voltages may arise at the output of an amplifier due to poor impedance matching — which can happen while in operation due to changing frequency or damage to the antenna or feed line.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$















          8












          8








          8





          $begingroup$

          As far as I know, vacuum tubes are used in newly-manufactured radio equipment (as opposed to still-in-use old equipment) for one purpose: high-power amplifiers. The advantages of vacuum tubes in this application are essentially from the fact that the tube can be built as a large and sturdy device.



          • Semiconductor devices may fail due to overheating which changes the properties of the semiconductor material in ways which lead to further heating and destruction; vacuum tubes can run hot and be made of large metal structures which are more robust against heat and can conduct it away to external heat sinks more readily.


          • Semiconductor devices may fail due to excessive voltage across them, and improving voltage rating is a difficult engineering problem — vacuum tubes can have physically large elements which the high voltage would have to arc between (through vacuum) to cause failure. In RF applications, high voltages may arise at the output of an amplifier due to poor impedance matching — which can happen while in operation due to changing frequency or damage to the antenna or feed line.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          As far as I know, vacuum tubes are used in newly-manufactured radio equipment (as opposed to still-in-use old equipment) for one purpose: high-power amplifiers. The advantages of vacuum tubes in this application are essentially from the fact that the tube can be built as a large and sturdy device.



          • Semiconductor devices may fail due to overheating which changes the properties of the semiconductor material in ways which lead to further heating and destruction; vacuum tubes can run hot and be made of large metal structures which are more robust against heat and can conduct it away to external heat sinks more readily.


          • Semiconductor devices may fail due to excessive voltage across them, and improving voltage rating is a difficult engineering problem — vacuum tubes can have physically large elements which the high voltage would have to arc between (through vacuum) to cause failure. In RF applications, high voltages may arise at the output of an amplifier due to poor impedance matching — which can happen while in operation due to changing frequency or damage to the antenna or feed line.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered Apr 19 at 2:15









          Kevin Reid AG6YOKevin Reid AG6YO

          16.8k33272




          16.8k33272





















              7












              $begingroup$

              Vacuum tubes are neither outdated nor less efficient. See https://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/devices/the-quest-for-the-ultimate-vacuum-tube



              The above IEEE Spectrum article talks about a vacuum tube amplifier that is more efficient than any solid state amplifier.



              This is just one example of active research on vacuum tubes.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$








              • 2




                $begingroup$
                Fully agreed! Every microwave oven uses a magnetron (a type of vacuum type). AFAIK, semiconductors haven't caught up yet
                $endgroup$
                – DaveBoltman
                yesterday















              7












              $begingroup$

              Vacuum tubes are neither outdated nor less efficient. See https://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/devices/the-quest-for-the-ultimate-vacuum-tube



              The above IEEE Spectrum article talks about a vacuum tube amplifier that is more efficient than any solid state amplifier.



              This is just one example of active research on vacuum tubes.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$








              • 2




                $begingroup$
                Fully agreed! Every microwave oven uses a magnetron (a type of vacuum type). AFAIK, semiconductors haven't caught up yet
                $endgroup$
                – DaveBoltman
                yesterday













              7












              7








              7





              $begingroup$

              Vacuum tubes are neither outdated nor less efficient. See https://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/devices/the-quest-for-the-ultimate-vacuum-tube



              The above IEEE Spectrum article talks about a vacuum tube amplifier that is more efficient than any solid state amplifier.



              This is just one example of active research on vacuum tubes.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$



              Vacuum tubes are neither outdated nor less efficient. See https://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/devices/the-quest-for-the-ultimate-vacuum-tube



              The above IEEE Spectrum article talks about a vacuum tube amplifier that is more efficient than any solid state amplifier.



              This is just one example of active research on vacuum tubes.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered 2 days ago









              user10489user10489

              70316




              70316







              • 2




                $begingroup$
                Fully agreed! Every microwave oven uses a magnetron (a type of vacuum type). AFAIK, semiconductors haven't caught up yet
                $endgroup$
                – DaveBoltman
                yesterday












              • 2




                $begingroup$
                Fully agreed! Every microwave oven uses a magnetron (a type of vacuum type). AFAIK, semiconductors haven't caught up yet
                $endgroup$
                – DaveBoltman
                yesterday







              2




              2




              $begingroup$
              Fully agreed! Every microwave oven uses a magnetron (a type of vacuum type). AFAIK, semiconductors haven't caught up yet
              $endgroup$
              – DaveBoltman
              yesterday




              $begingroup$
              Fully agreed! Every microwave oven uses a magnetron (a type of vacuum type). AFAIK, semiconductors haven't caught up yet
              $endgroup$
              – DaveBoltman
              yesterday











              3












              $begingroup$

              There's one more reason vacuum tubes are still used in amateur radios: personal preference of the amateur building the radio.



              Speaking for myself, I understand what's going on inside a vacuum tube much more clearly and deeply than I do the internal physics of a transistor. Further, it's much more comfortable (for me) to think in terms of increasing voltage to increase power output, than it is to find a way to increase current without burning something out.



              Put those factors together, and anything I build from scratch is almost certain to include tubes/valves, because that's where my comfort zone lies. There's the possibility it will also include transistors, possibly even integrated circuits (because op amps and IC audio amps are so convenient and easy to use) -- but it will revolve around those triodes, tetrodes, and pentodes.



              Oh, one other reason for my preference for tubes: if a tube fails, you just wiggle it out of its socket and plug in a "new" one. With transistors, it's hard to tell which one is bad, and you have to (at least) desolder the old one to replace it. A new tube costs more than a new transistor, but to me, the ease of troubleshooting and replacement wins.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$

















                3












                $begingroup$

                There's one more reason vacuum tubes are still used in amateur radios: personal preference of the amateur building the radio.



                Speaking for myself, I understand what's going on inside a vacuum tube much more clearly and deeply than I do the internal physics of a transistor. Further, it's much more comfortable (for me) to think in terms of increasing voltage to increase power output, than it is to find a way to increase current without burning something out.



                Put those factors together, and anything I build from scratch is almost certain to include tubes/valves, because that's where my comfort zone lies. There's the possibility it will also include transistors, possibly even integrated circuits (because op amps and IC audio amps are so convenient and easy to use) -- but it will revolve around those triodes, tetrodes, and pentodes.



                Oh, one other reason for my preference for tubes: if a tube fails, you just wiggle it out of its socket and plug in a "new" one. With transistors, it's hard to tell which one is bad, and you have to (at least) desolder the old one to replace it. A new tube costs more than a new transistor, but to me, the ease of troubleshooting and replacement wins.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$















                  3












                  3








                  3





                  $begingroup$

                  There's one more reason vacuum tubes are still used in amateur radios: personal preference of the amateur building the radio.



                  Speaking for myself, I understand what's going on inside a vacuum tube much more clearly and deeply than I do the internal physics of a transistor. Further, it's much more comfortable (for me) to think in terms of increasing voltage to increase power output, than it is to find a way to increase current without burning something out.



                  Put those factors together, and anything I build from scratch is almost certain to include tubes/valves, because that's where my comfort zone lies. There's the possibility it will also include transistors, possibly even integrated circuits (because op amps and IC audio amps are so convenient and easy to use) -- but it will revolve around those triodes, tetrodes, and pentodes.



                  Oh, one other reason for my preference for tubes: if a tube fails, you just wiggle it out of its socket and plug in a "new" one. With transistors, it's hard to tell which one is bad, and you have to (at least) desolder the old one to replace it. A new tube costs more than a new transistor, but to me, the ease of troubleshooting and replacement wins.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  There's one more reason vacuum tubes are still used in amateur radios: personal preference of the amateur building the radio.



                  Speaking for myself, I understand what's going on inside a vacuum tube much more clearly and deeply than I do the internal physics of a transistor. Further, it's much more comfortable (for me) to think in terms of increasing voltage to increase power output, than it is to find a way to increase current without burning something out.



                  Put those factors together, and anything I build from scratch is almost certain to include tubes/valves, because that's where my comfort zone lies. There's the possibility it will also include transistors, possibly even integrated circuits (because op amps and IC audio amps are so convenient and easy to use) -- but it will revolve around those triodes, tetrodes, and pentodes.



                  Oh, one other reason for my preference for tubes: if a tube fails, you just wiggle it out of its socket and plug in a "new" one. With transistors, it's hard to tell which one is bad, and you have to (at least) desolder the old one to replace it. A new tube costs more than a new transistor, but to me, the ease of troubleshooting and replacement wins.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 2 days ago









                  Zeiss IkonZeiss Ikon

                  933113




                  933113




















                      Sumithran is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









                      draft saved

                      draft discarded


















                      Sumithran is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












                      Sumithran is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.











                      Sumithran is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.














                      Thanks for contributing an answer to Amateur Radio Stack Exchange!


                      • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                      But avoid


                      • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                      • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                      Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                      To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                      draft saved


                      draft discarded














                      StackExchange.ready(
                      function ()
                      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fham.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f13344%2fwhy-are-vacuum-tubes-still-used-in-amateur-radios%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                      );

                      Post as a guest















                      Required, but never shown





















































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown

































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown







                      Popular posts from this blog

                      Category:9 (number) SubcategoriesMedia in category "9 (number)"Navigation menuUpload mediaGND ID: 4485639-8Library of Congress authority ID: sh85091979ReasonatorScholiaStatistics

                      Circuit construction for execution of conditional statements using least significant bitHow are two different registers being used as “control”?How exactly is the stated composite state of the two registers being produced using the $R_zz$ controlled rotations?Efficiently performing controlled rotations in HHLWould this quantum algorithm implementation work?How to prepare a superposed states of odd integers from $1$ to $sqrtN$?Why is this implementation of the order finding algorithm not working?Circuit construction for Hamiltonian simulationHow can I invert the least significant bit of a certain term of a superposed state?Implementing an oracleImplementing a controlled sum operation

                      Magento 2 “No Payment Methods” in Admin New OrderHow to integrate Paypal Express Checkout with the Magento APIMagento 1.5 - Sales > Order > edit order and shipping methods disappearAuto Invoice Check/Money Order Payment methodAdd more simple payment methods?Shipping methods not showingWhat should I do to change payment methods if changing the configuration has no effects?1.9 - No Payment Methods showing upMy Payment Methods not Showing for downloadable/virtual product when checkout?Magento2 API to access internal payment methodHow to call an existing payment methods in the registration form?