Enchiridion, 16: Does a stoic moan, or not?Clarification of this stoic quote by Marcus Aurelius in Meditations, “Art thou angry with him whose armpits stink?”Translation of a greek word in Stoic thoughtTruth is an opinion and not fact - StoicismSource for (Stoic?) quote on death/(im)mortalityStoic Aphorisms?Stoic thoughts on sharing achievementsWhat is the stoic response to something like the events in Las Vegas?Can you apply Stoic Philosophy to a Business Goal?How does Stoicism deal with human interdependence?On the universal and preconception in stoic logic: the word “natural” (naturale) from Diog. L., VII, 54
Old time bike. Can I put a rear derailleur?
Convergent Licencing
How to modify a string without altering its text properties
Run 2 runs, run 2 (can "runs" be dropped in colloquial language) [cricket]
What does this Swiss black on yellow rectangular traffic sign with a symbol looking like a dart mean?
How is linear momentum conserved in circular motion?
I found a password with hashcat but it doesn't work
What preparations would Hubble have needed to return in a Shuttle?
How did Frodo know where the Bree village was?
What could be the physiological mechanism for a biological Geiger counter?
I calculated that we should be able to see the sun well beyond the observable universe. Where did I go wrong?
Do details of my undergraduate title matter?
In the US, can a former president run again?
Are intrusions within a foreign embassy considered an act of war?
What is this plant I saw for sale at a Romanian farmer's market?
How can I ping multiple IP addresses at the same time?
What is the name of the person who reconciled a line from Rudram to dakshinamurthy and Adi Shankaracharya?
Definition of 'vrit'
Is declining an undergraduate award which causes me discomfort appropriate?
What is that ceiling compartment of a Boeing 737?
How can I improve my violin intonation for enharmonic notes?
In Street Fighter, what does the M stand for in M Bison?
How can I take pictures like these examples with a yellowish tone and point & shoot film camera look?
How much steel armor can you wear and still be able to swim?
Enchiridion, 16: Does a stoic moan, or not?
Clarification of this stoic quote by Marcus Aurelius in Meditations, “Art thou angry with him whose armpits stink?”Translation of a greek word in Stoic thoughtTruth is an opinion and not fact - StoicismSource for (Stoic?) quote on death/(im)mortalityStoic Aphorisms?Stoic thoughts on sharing achievementsWhat is the stoic response to something like the events in Las Vegas?Can you apply Stoic Philosophy to a Business Goal?How does Stoicism deal with human interdependence?On the universal and preconception in stoic logic: the word “natural” (naturale) from Diog. L., VII, 54
The translation of Epictetus' Enchiridion, part 16 by Elizabeth Carter (http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html) seems to contradict that of Thomas Wentworth Higginson's (https://www.gutenberg.org/files/45109/45109-h/45109-h.htm).
E. Carter writes:
As far as words go, however, don't reduce yourself to his level, and certainly do not moan with him. Do not moan inwardly either.
But T. W. Higginson writes:
As far as conversation goes, however, do not disdain to accommodate yourself to him and, if need be, to groan with him. Take heed, however, not to groan inwardly, too.
Both translations seem to suggest that the Stoic should not "moan inwardly" (roughly, not to feel bad about the event). However, one suggests that the Stoic should offer sympathy and comfort if need be and the other suggests that he should not.
I have a translation by George Long which agrees with Higginson. Which is the more Stoic position? To groan outwardly, or not?
ethics stoicism translation
New contributor
Bim Sherwood is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
The translation of Epictetus' Enchiridion, part 16 by Elizabeth Carter (http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html) seems to contradict that of Thomas Wentworth Higginson's (https://www.gutenberg.org/files/45109/45109-h/45109-h.htm).
E. Carter writes:
As far as words go, however, don't reduce yourself to his level, and certainly do not moan with him. Do not moan inwardly either.
But T. W. Higginson writes:
As far as conversation goes, however, do not disdain to accommodate yourself to him and, if need be, to groan with him. Take heed, however, not to groan inwardly, too.
Both translations seem to suggest that the Stoic should not "moan inwardly" (roughly, not to feel bad about the event). However, one suggests that the Stoic should offer sympathy and comfort if need be and the other suggests that he should not.
I have a translation by George Long which agrees with Higginson. Which is the more Stoic position? To groan outwardly, or not?
ethics stoicism translation
New contributor
Bim Sherwood is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
The relative accuracy of the translations sounds like a potential question for Latin Language Stack Exchange (which, despite its name, also covers classical Greek).
– Ilmari Karonen
Jun 10 at 20:59
add a comment |
The translation of Epictetus' Enchiridion, part 16 by Elizabeth Carter (http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html) seems to contradict that of Thomas Wentworth Higginson's (https://www.gutenberg.org/files/45109/45109-h/45109-h.htm).
E. Carter writes:
As far as words go, however, don't reduce yourself to his level, and certainly do not moan with him. Do not moan inwardly either.
But T. W. Higginson writes:
As far as conversation goes, however, do not disdain to accommodate yourself to him and, if need be, to groan with him. Take heed, however, not to groan inwardly, too.
Both translations seem to suggest that the Stoic should not "moan inwardly" (roughly, not to feel bad about the event). However, one suggests that the Stoic should offer sympathy and comfort if need be and the other suggests that he should not.
I have a translation by George Long which agrees with Higginson. Which is the more Stoic position? To groan outwardly, or not?
ethics stoicism translation
New contributor
Bim Sherwood is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
The translation of Epictetus' Enchiridion, part 16 by Elizabeth Carter (http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html) seems to contradict that of Thomas Wentworth Higginson's (https://www.gutenberg.org/files/45109/45109-h/45109-h.htm).
E. Carter writes:
As far as words go, however, don't reduce yourself to his level, and certainly do not moan with him. Do not moan inwardly either.
But T. W. Higginson writes:
As far as conversation goes, however, do not disdain to accommodate yourself to him and, if need be, to groan with him. Take heed, however, not to groan inwardly, too.
Both translations seem to suggest that the Stoic should not "moan inwardly" (roughly, not to feel bad about the event). However, one suggests that the Stoic should offer sympathy and comfort if need be and the other suggests that he should not.
I have a translation by George Long which agrees with Higginson. Which is the more Stoic position? To groan outwardly, or not?
ethics stoicism translation
ethics stoicism translation
New contributor
Bim Sherwood is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Bim Sherwood is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited Jun 10 at 11:47
Philip Klöcking♦
7,67822754
7,67822754
New contributor
Bim Sherwood is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked Jun 10 at 10:39
Bim SherwoodBim Sherwood
484
484
New contributor
Bim Sherwood is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Bim Sherwood is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
The relative accuracy of the translations sounds like a potential question for Latin Language Stack Exchange (which, despite its name, also covers classical Greek).
– Ilmari Karonen
Jun 10 at 20:59
add a comment |
1
The relative accuracy of the translations sounds like a potential question for Latin Language Stack Exchange (which, despite its name, also covers classical Greek).
– Ilmari Karonen
Jun 10 at 20:59
1
1
The relative accuracy of the translations sounds like a potential question for Latin Language Stack Exchange (which, despite its name, also covers classical Greek).
– Ilmari Karonen
Jun 10 at 20:59
The relative accuracy of the translations sounds like a potential question for Latin Language Stack Exchange (which, despite its name, also covers classical Greek).
– Ilmari Karonen
Jun 10 at 20:59
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
TL;DR
The Stoic way includes empathetic reactions, i.e. groaning/moaning outwardly, in moments of shock. Both because it is a natural reaction even the perfect sage cannot help against and because he should help others to overcome their feelings.
Long answer
A.A. Long has something to say on this in his book Epictetus: A Stoic and Socratic Guide to Life (OUP: 2002).
First, let me give you his translation (p. 230):
Do not hesitate to sympathize verbally with a [distraught] person, and even, if the
occasion arises, share in the person's groans. But take care not to groan also within
yourself.
(Ench. 16)
He explains the text afterwards (pp.253-54):
Epictetus would not be a Stoic if he thought that the proper way to help a distraught
person is to 'feel' that person's pain. The task of a Stoic comforter is not to become
upset oneself but to try to assuage the afflicted person. But, as we see in the
passage printed at the head of this chapter, Epictetus does recommend 'showing'
sympathy in words and even 'sharing in another's groans', provided that one does not
'groan within oneself' (Ench. 16).
What are we to make of this controlled empathy? There are two sides to Epictetus'
recommendation. First, an outward acknowledgement of the distraught person's
distress, putting oneself in the other's position; and, secondly, an inward refusal 'to
be carried away by the impression' that the other's situation is objectively 'bad'.
Inwardly, comforters should say to themselves: 'It is not what has happened that is
crushing this person but the person's judgement about what has happened.'
Epictetus admits that no one, including the ideal sage, can fail to react emotionally to
quite unexpected shocks, such as a thunderclap or sudden news of some
catastrophe (fragment 9). Such things can happen too rapidly for any reflection or
judgement to intervene. But he does not take such uncontrollable reactions to count
against the difficult Stoic doctrine that dread and other debilitating passions fall within
the scope of our volition. Even a wise man will blench under a sudden shock, but
blenching is not an instance of dread, as the Stoics define that passion: 'judging that
something terrible is looming.' Having experienced a terrifying shock, the wise man
'does not assent to such impressions or add that judgement to them, but rejects them and finds nothing to dread in them'.
Stoic comforters, then, will allow for shocks, but they will take prolonged distress and other passions to be self-inflicted, deriving not from events directly but from people's
misjudgements about the harm or benefit they are experiencing or expect to
experience. (bolded mine)
In short: While a good stoic should always be able to offer help and empathy to people who are in distraught, they should never be carried away by the experience of either the emotional distress of others or their own. Stoics know that the pain is not objective, but only arises because of the personal judgement of the situation, so judging the situation as not necessarily and persistingly affecting oneself - even if it does in a moment of shock - is the Stoic way. This includes helping others to do so. It prevents the persistent manifestation of negative emotions and enables us to be happy.
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "265"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Bim Sherwood is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fphilosophy.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f63918%2fenchiridion-16-does-a-stoic-moan-or-not%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
TL;DR
The Stoic way includes empathetic reactions, i.e. groaning/moaning outwardly, in moments of shock. Both because it is a natural reaction even the perfect sage cannot help against and because he should help others to overcome their feelings.
Long answer
A.A. Long has something to say on this in his book Epictetus: A Stoic and Socratic Guide to Life (OUP: 2002).
First, let me give you his translation (p. 230):
Do not hesitate to sympathize verbally with a [distraught] person, and even, if the
occasion arises, share in the person's groans. But take care not to groan also within
yourself.
(Ench. 16)
He explains the text afterwards (pp.253-54):
Epictetus would not be a Stoic if he thought that the proper way to help a distraught
person is to 'feel' that person's pain. The task of a Stoic comforter is not to become
upset oneself but to try to assuage the afflicted person. But, as we see in the
passage printed at the head of this chapter, Epictetus does recommend 'showing'
sympathy in words and even 'sharing in another's groans', provided that one does not
'groan within oneself' (Ench. 16).
What are we to make of this controlled empathy? There are two sides to Epictetus'
recommendation. First, an outward acknowledgement of the distraught person's
distress, putting oneself in the other's position; and, secondly, an inward refusal 'to
be carried away by the impression' that the other's situation is objectively 'bad'.
Inwardly, comforters should say to themselves: 'It is not what has happened that is
crushing this person but the person's judgement about what has happened.'
Epictetus admits that no one, including the ideal sage, can fail to react emotionally to
quite unexpected shocks, such as a thunderclap or sudden news of some
catastrophe (fragment 9). Such things can happen too rapidly for any reflection or
judgement to intervene. But he does not take such uncontrollable reactions to count
against the difficult Stoic doctrine that dread and other debilitating passions fall within
the scope of our volition. Even a wise man will blench under a sudden shock, but
blenching is not an instance of dread, as the Stoics define that passion: 'judging that
something terrible is looming.' Having experienced a terrifying shock, the wise man
'does not assent to such impressions or add that judgement to them, but rejects them and finds nothing to dread in them'.
Stoic comforters, then, will allow for shocks, but they will take prolonged distress and other passions to be self-inflicted, deriving not from events directly but from people's
misjudgements about the harm or benefit they are experiencing or expect to
experience. (bolded mine)
In short: While a good stoic should always be able to offer help and empathy to people who are in distraught, they should never be carried away by the experience of either the emotional distress of others or their own. Stoics know that the pain is not objective, but only arises because of the personal judgement of the situation, so judging the situation as not necessarily and persistingly affecting oneself - even if it does in a moment of shock - is the Stoic way. This includes helping others to do so. It prevents the persistent manifestation of negative emotions and enables us to be happy.
add a comment |
TL;DR
The Stoic way includes empathetic reactions, i.e. groaning/moaning outwardly, in moments of shock. Both because it is a natural reaction even the perfect sage cannot help against and because he should help others to overcome their feelings.
Long answer
A.A. Long has something to say on this in his book Epictetus: A Stoic and Socratic Guide to Life (OUP: 2002).
First, let me give you his translation (p. 230):
Do not hesitate to sympathize verbally with a [distraught] person, and even, if the
occasion arises, share in the person's groans. But take care not to groan also within
yourself.
(Ench. 16)
He explains the text afterwards (pp.253-54):
Epictetus would not be a Stoic if he thought that the proper way to help a distraught
person is to 'feel' that person's pain. The task of a Stoic comforter is not to become
upset oneself but to try to assuage the afflicted person. But, as we see in the
passage printed at the head of this chapter, Epictetus does recommend 'showing'
sympathy in words and even 'sharing in another's groans', provided that one does not
'groan within oneself' (Ench. 16).
What are we to make of this controlled empathy? There are two sides to Epictetus'
recommendation. First, an outward acknowledgement of the distraught person's
distress, putting oneself in the other's position; and, secondly, an inward refusal 'to
be carried away by the impression' that the other's situation is objectively 'bad'.
Inwardly, comforters should say to themselves: 'It is not what has happened that is
crushing this person but the person's judgement about what has happened.'
Epictetus admits that no one, including the ideal sage, can fail to react emotionally to
quite unexpected shocks, such as a thunderclap or sudden news of some
catastrophe (fragment 9). Such things can happen too rapidly for any reflection or
judgement to intervene. But he does not take such uncontrollable reactions to count
against the difficult Stoic doctrine that dread and other debilitating passions fall within
the scope of our volition. Even a wise man will blench under a sudden shock, but
blenching is not an instance of dread, as the Stoics define that passion: 'judging that
something terrible is looming.' Having experienced a terrifying shock, the wise man
'does not assent to such impressions or add that judgement to them, but rejects them and finds nothing to dread in them'.
Stoic comforters, then, will allow for shocks, but they will take prolonged distress and other passions to be self-inflicted, deriving not from events directly but from people's
misjudgements about the harm or benefit they are experiencing or expect to
experience. (bolded mine)
In short: While a good stoic should always be able to offer help and empathy to people who are in distraught, they should never be carried away by the experience of either the emotional distress of others or their own. Stoics know that the pain is not objective, but only arises because of the personal judgement of the situation, so judging the situation as not necessarily and persistingly affecting oneself - even if it does in a moment of shock - is the Stoic way. This includes helping others to do so. It prevents the persistent manifestation of negative emotions and enables us to be happy.
add a comment |
TL;DR
The Stoic way includes empathetic reactions, i.e. groaning/moaning outwardly, in moments of shock. Both because it is a natural reaction even the perfect sage cannot help against and because he should help others to overcome their feelings.
Long answer
A.A. Long has something to say on this in his book Epictetus: A Stoic and Socratic Guide to Life (OUP: 2002).
First, let me give you his translation (p. 230):
Do not hesitate to sympathize verbally with a [distraught] person, and even, if the
occasion arises, share in the person's groans. But take care not to groan also within
yourself.
(Ench. 16)
He explains the text afterwards (pp.253-54):
Epictetus would not be a Stoic if he thought that the proper way to help a distraught
person is to 'feel' that person's pain. The task of a Stoic comforter is not to become
upset oneself but to try to assuage the afflicted person. But, as we see in the
passage printed at the head of this chapter, Epictetus does recommend 'showing'
sympathy in words and even 'sharing in another's groans', provided that one does not
'groan within oneself' (Ench. 16).
What are we to make of this controlled empathy? There are two sides to Epictetus'
recommendation. First, an outward acknowledgement of the distraught person's
distress, putting oneself in the other's position; and, secondly, an inward refusal 'to
be carried away by the impression' that the other's situation is objectively 'bad'.
Inwardly, comforters should say to themselves: 'It is not what has happened that is
crushing this person but the person's judgement about what has happened.'
Epictetus admits that no one, including the ideal sage, can fail to react emotionally to
quite unexpected shocks, such as a thunderclap or sudden news of some
catastrophe (fragment 9). Such things can happen too rapidly for any reflection or
judgement to intervene. But he does not take such uncontrollable reactions to count
against the difficult Stoic doctrine that dread and other debilitating passions fall within
the scope of our volition. Even a wise man will blench under a sudden shock, but
blenching is not an instance of dread, as the Stoics define that passion: 'judging that
something terrible is looming.' Having experienced a terrifying shock, the wise man
'does not assent to such impressions or add that judgement to them, but rejects them and finds nothing to dread in them'.
Stoic comforters, then, will allow for shocks, but they will take prolonged distress and other passions to be self-inflicted, deriving not from events directly but from people's
misjudgements about the harm or benefit they are experiencing or expect to
experience. (bolded mine)
In short: While a good stoic should always be able to offer help and empathy to people who are in distraught, they should never be carried away by the experience of either the emotional distress of others or their own. Stoics know that the pain is not objective, but only arises because of the personal judgement of the situation, so judging the situation as not necessarily and persistingly affecting oneself - even if it does in a moment of shock - is the Stoic way. This includes helping others to do so. It prevents the persistent manifestation of negative emotions and enables us to be happy.
TL;DR
The Stoic way includes empathetic reactions, i.e. groaning/moaning outwardly, in moments of shock. Both because it is a natural reaction even the perfect sage cannot help against and because he should help others to overcome their feelings.
Long answer
A.A. Long has something to say on this in his book Epictetus: A Stoic and Socratic Guide to Life (OUP: 2002).
First, let me give you his translation (p. 230):
Do not hesitate to sympathize verbally with a [distraught] person, and even, if the
occasion arises, share in the person's groans. But take care not to groan also within
yourself.
(Ench. 16)
He explains the text afterwards (pp.253-54):
Epictetus would not be a Stoic if he thought that the proper way to help a distraught
person is to 'feel' that person's pain. The task of a Stoic comforter is not to become
upset oneself but to try to assuage the afflicted person. But, as we see in the
passage printed at the head of this chapter, Epictetus does recommend 'showing'
sympathy in words and even 'sharing in another's groans', provided that one does not
'groan within oneself' (Ench. 16).
What are we to make of this controlled empathy? There are two sides to Epictetus'
recommendation. First, an outward acknowledgement of the distraught person's
distress, putting oneself in the other's position; and, secondly, an inward refusal 'to
be carried away by the impression' that the other's situation is objectively 'bad'.
Inwardly, comforters should say to themselves: 'It is not what has happened that is
crushing this person but the person's judgement about what has happened.'
Epictetus admits that no one, including the ideal sage, can fail to react emotionally to
quite unexpected shocks, such as a thunderclap or sudden news of some
catastrophe (fragment 9). Such things can happen too rapidly for any reflection or
judgement to intervene. But he does not take such uncontrollable reactions to count
against the difficult Stoic doctrine that dread and other debilitating passions fall within
the scope of our volition. Even a wise man will blench under a sudden shock, but
blenching is not an instance of dread, as the Stoics define that passion: 'judging that
something terrible is looming.' Having experienced a terrifying shock, the wise man
'does not assent to such impressions or add that judgement to them, but rejects them and finds nothing to dread in them'.
Stoic comforters, then, will allow for shocks, but they will take prolonged distress and other passions to be self-inflicted, deriving not from events directly but from people's
misjudgements about the harm or benefit they are experiencing or expect to
experience. (bolded mine)
In short: While a good stoic should always be able to offer help and empathy to people who are in distraught, they should never be carried away by the experience of either the emotional distress of others or their own. Stoics know that the pain is not objective, but only arises because of the personal judgement of the situation, so judging the situation as not necessarily and persistingly affecting oneself - even if it does in a moment of shock - is the Stoic way. This includes helping others to do so. It prevents the persistent manifestation of negative emotions and enables us to be happy.
edited Jun 10 at 11:37
answered Jun 10 at 11:21
Philip Klöcking♦Philip Klöcking
7,67822754
7,67822754
add a comment |
add a comment |
Bim Sherwood is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Bim Sherwood is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Bim Sherwood is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Bim Sherwood is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Thanks for contributing an answer to Philosophy Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fphilosophy.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f63918%2fenchiridion-16-does-a-stoic-moan-or-not%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
1
The relative accuracy of the translations sounds like a potential question for Latin Language Stack Exchange (which, despite its name, also covers classical Greek).
– Ilmari Karonen
Jun 10 at 20:59