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Golden Guardian removed before death related trigger


What is the reason for cards stating “Until end of turn, you don't lose this mana as steps and phases end”?How does a Loyal Cathar react to Undying Evil?Is Loyal Cathar's ability a “delayed triggered ability”?What happens when a creature with Persist AND Undying dies? ('return to battlefield' issues…)Will using Nephalia Smuggler save a creature targeted by a destruction spell?Artisan of Forms and Gift of ImmortalityInstantaneous creature death and checking conditionsWhat does the game consider being the same instance of a card?Journey to Eternity and Thrashing Brontodonwhich has precedence when they conflictWill Journey to Eternity come back if the enchanted creature comes back as a land?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








4















Golden Guardian says:




(2): Golden Guardian fights another target creature you control. When
Golden Guardian dies this turn, return it to the Battlefield
transformed under your control




If an opponent targets Guardian with a kill spell, and you activate it's ability in response; it will return transformed. That's great.



But if you activate it's ability to fight another creature, THEN in response your opponent kill-spells it. Does the ability fizzle or will it still revolse returning the Gaudrian to the battlefield transformed?










share|improve this question
























  • What do you mean by a "kill" spell?

    – Joe W
    Jul 29 at 18:30






  • 6





    I think that's a common enough slang for a spell that destroys (or possibly exiles) a creature.

    – murgatroid99
    Jul 29 at 18:34






  • 1





    @murgatroid99 Maybe but it still would be nice to know as I assume that the difference between destroy and exile could matter in some cases.

    – Joe W
    Jul 29 at 18:37






  • 3





    Golden Guardian doesn't return to the battlefield, but you can activate the ability again in response to the kill spell to have it transform when it dies.

    – Aulis Ronkainen
    Jul 29 at 18:37

















4















Golden Guardian says:




(2): Golden Guardian fights another target creature you control. When
Golden Guardian dies this turn, return it to the Battlefield
transformed under your control




If an opponent targets Guardian with a kill spell, and you activate it's ability in response; it will return transformed. That's great.



But if you activate it's ability to fight another creature, THEN in response your opponent kill-spells it. Does the ability fizzle or will it still revolse returning the Gaudrian to the battlefield transformed?










share|improve this question
























  • What do you mean by a "kill" spell?

    – Joe W
    Jul 29 at 18:30






  • 6





    I think that's a common enough slang for a spell that destroys (or possibly exiles) a creature.

    – murgatroid99
    Jul 29 at 18:34






  • 1





    @murgatroid99 Maybe but it still would be nice to know as I assume that the difference between destroy and exile could matter in some cases.

    – Joe W
    Jul 29 at 18:37






  • 3





    Golden Guardian doesn't return to the battlefield, but you can activate the ability again in response to the kill spell to have it transform when it dies.

    – Aulis Ronkainen
    Jul 29 at 18:37













4












4








4








Golden Guardian says:




(2): Golden Guardian fights another target creature you control. When
Golden Guardian dies this turn, return it to the Battlefield
transformed under your control




If an opponent targets Guardian with a kill spell, and you activate it's ability in response; it will return transformed. That's great.



But if you activate it's ability to fight another creature, THEN in response your opponent kill-spells it. Does the ability fizzle or will it still revolse returning the Gaudrian to the battlefield transformed?










share|improve this question














Golden Guardian says:




(2): Golden Guardian fights another target creature you control. When
Golden Guardian dies this turn, return it to the Battlefield
transformed under your control




If an opponent targets Guardian with a kill spell, and you activate it's ability in response; it will return transformed. That's great.



But if you activate it's ability to fight another creature, THEN in response your opponent kill-spells it. Does the ability fizzle or will it still revolse returning the Gaudrian to the battlefield transformed?







magic-the-gathering






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked Jul 29 at 18:19









L.P.L.P.

27710 bronze badges




27710 bronze badges















  • What do you mean by a "kill" spell?

    – Joe W
    Jul 29 at 18:30






  • 6





    I think that's a common enough slang for a spell that destroys (or possibly exiles) a creature.

    – murgatroid99
    Jul 29 at 18:34






  • 1





    @murgatroid99 Maybe but it still would be nice to know as I assume that the difference between destroy and exile could matter in some cases.

    – Joe W
    Jul 29 at 18:37






  • 3





    Golden Guardian doesn't return to the battlefield, but you can activate the ability again in response to the kill spell to have it transform when it dies.

    – Aulis Ronkainen
    Jul 29 at 18:37

















  • What do you mean by a "kill" spell?

    – Joe W
    Jul 29 at 18:30






  • 6





    I think that's a common enough slang for a spell that destroys (or possibly exiles) a creature.

    – murgatroid99
    Jul 29 at 18:34






  • 1





    @murgatroid99 Maybe but it still would be nice to know as I assume that the difference between destroy and exile could matter in some cases.

    – Joe W
    Jul 29 at 18:37






  • 3





    Golden Guardian doesn't return to the battlefield, but you can activate the ability again in response to the kill spell to have it transform when it dies.

    – Aulis Ronkainen
    Jul 29 at 18:37
















What do you mean by a "kill" spell?

– Joe W
Jul 29 at 18:30





What do you mean by a "kill" spell?

– Joe W
Jul 29 at 18:30




6




6





I think that's a common enough slang for a spell that destroys (or possibly exiles) a creature.

– murgatroid99
Jul 29 at 18:34





I think that's a common enough slang for a spell that destroys (or possibly exiles) a creature.

– murgatroid99
Jul 29 at 18:34




1




1





@murgatroid99 Maybe but it still would be nice to know as I assume that the difference between destroy and exile could matter in some cases.

– Joe W
Jul 29 at 18:37





@murgatroid99 Maybe but it still would be nice to know as I assume that the difference between destroy and exile could matter in some cases.

– Joe W
Jul 29 at 18:37




3




3





Golden Guardian doesn't return to the battlefield, but you can activate the ability again in response to the kill spell to have it transform when it dies.

– Aulis Ronkainen
Jul 29 at 18:37





Golden Guardian doesn't return to the battlefield, but you can activate the ability again in response to the kill spell to have it transform when it dies.

– Aulis Ronkainen
Jul 29 at 18:37










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















6














Golden Guardian will stay dead.




That part of Golden Guardian's ability is a delayed triggered ability. It won't trigger because it's only created during the resolution of the activated ability.




603.7a Delayed triggered abilities are created during the resolution of spells or abilities, as the result of a replacement effect being applied, or as a result of a static ability that allows a player to take an action. A delayed triggered ability won’t trigger until it has actually been created, even if its trigger event occurred just beforehand. Other events that happen earlier may make the trigger event impossible.



Example: Part of an effect reads “When this creature leaves the battlefield,” but the creature in question leaves the battlefield before the spell or ability creating the effect resolves. In this case, the delayed ability never triggers.



Example: If an effect reads “When this creature becomes untapped” and the named creature becomes untapped before the effect resolves, the ability waits for the next time that creature untaps.




(Empahsis mine)



A ruling on Golden Guardian confirms this.




If Golden Guardian leaves the battlefield before its activated ability has resolved, it won’t be returned to the battlefield when the ability resolves.




When Golden Guardian's activated ability resolves,



  1. You are instructed to have the Golden Guardian fights another target creature. Nothing happens because the Golden Guardian no longer exists.[CR 701.12b]


  2. You are instructed to create a delayed triggered ability. It will never trigger because the creature it references in its trigger condition no longer exists.[CR 201.4, 400.7]



PS - It doesn't fizzle, which means removed from the stack as it would resolve for complete lack of legal targets. It simply doesn't get placed on the stack because it doesn't even trigger.






share|improve this answer



























  • So does that mean it can still trigger later if you revive+kill the guardian in the second main phase?

    – Tezra
    Jul 30 at 20:14











  • @Tezra No. That would be a different Golden Gardian (even if it's represented by the same physical card). When a card refers to itself by name, it means "this object". [CR 201.4] And that object ceased to exist the moment it left the battlefield. [CR 400.7]

    – ikegami
    Jul 31 at 3:02


















8














Golden Guardian will stay dead.



Since the ability doesn't resolve until after Golden Guardian dies, it won't "see" the Guardian die, and therefore won't trigger.



There is a Gatherer ruling that states this specifically:




If Golden Guardian leaves the battlefield before its activated ability has resolved, it won’t be returned to the battlefield when the ability resolves.







share|improve this answer


































    7














    If the Golden Guardian dies before its ability resolves, then the ability will effectively do nothing and the Guardian will stay dead.



    The ability does two things: it has Golden Guardian fight the target creature, then it creates a delayed triggered ability that brings the Guardian back from the graveyard transformed when it dies. If the Guardian is already dead, the fight instruction will do nothing because both creatures need to be alive to fight, and the triggered ability will be created but it will never trigger because the Guardian is already dead.






    share|improve this answer



























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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      6














      Golden Guardian will stay dead.




      That part of Golden Guardian's ability is a delayed triggered ability. It won't trigger because it's only created during the resolution of the activated ability.




      603.7a Delayed triggered abilities are created during the resolution of spells or abilities, as the result of a replacement effect being applied, or as a result of a static ability that allows a player to take an action. A delayed triggered ability won’t trigger until it has actually been created, even if its trigger event occurred just beforehand. Other events that happen earlier may make the trigger event impossible.



      Example: Part of an effect reads “When this creature leaves the battlefield,” but the creature in question leaves the battlefield before the spell or ability creating the effect resolves. In this case, the delayed ability never triggers.



      Example: If an effect reads “When this creature becomes untapped” and the named creature becomes untapped before the effect resolves, the ability waits for the next time that creature untaps.




      (Empahsis mine)



      A ruling on Golden Guardian confirms this.




      If Golden Guardian leaves the battlefield before its activated ability has resolved, it won’t be returned to the battlefield when the ability resolves.




      When Golden Guardian's activated ability resolves,



      1. You are instructed to have the Golden Guardian fights another target creature. Nothing happens because the Golden Guardian no longer exists.[CR 701.12b]


      2. You are instructed to create a delayed triggered ability. It will never trigger because the creature it references in its trigger condition no longer exists.[CR 201.4, 400.7]



      PS - It doesn't fizzle, which means removed from the stack as it would resolve for complete lack of legal targets. It simply doesn't get placed on the stack because it doesn't even trigger.






      share|improve this answer



























      • So does that mean it can still trigger later if you revive+kill the guardian in the second main phase?

        – Tezra
        Jul 30 at 20:14











      • @Tezra No. That would be a different Golden Gardian (even if it's represented by the same physical card). When a card refers to itself by name, it means "this object". [CR 201.4] And that object ceased to exist the moment it left the battlefield. [CR 400.7]

        – ikegami
        Jul 31 at 3:02















      6














      Golden Guardian will stay dead.




      That part of Golden Guardian's ability is a delayed triggered ability. It won't trigger because it's only created during the resolution of the activated ability.




      603.7a Delayed triggered abilities are created during the resolution of spells or abilities, as the result of a replacement effect being applied, or as a result of a static ability that allows a player to take an action. A delayed triggered ability won’t trigger until it has actually been created, even if its trigger event occurred just beforehand. Other events that happen earlier may make the trigger event impossible.



      Example: Part of an effect reads “When this creature leaves the battlefield,” but the creature in question leaves the battlefield before the spell or ability creating the effect resolves. In this case, the delayed ability never triggers.



      Example: If an effect reads “When this creature becomes untapped” and the named creature becomes untapped before the effect resolves, the ability waits for the next time that creature untaps.




      (Empahsis mine)



      A ruling on Golden Guardian confirms this.




      If Golden Guardian leaves the battlefield before its activated ability has resolved, it won’t be returned to the battlefield when the ability resolves.




      When Golden Guardian's activated ability resolves,



      1. You are instructed to have the Golden Guardian fights another target creature. Nothing happens because the Golden Guardian no longer exists.[CR 701.12b]


      2. You are instructed to create a delayed triggered ability. It will never trigger because the creature it references in its trigger condition no longer exists.[CR 201.4, 400.7]



      PS - It doesn't fizzle, which means removed from the stack as it would resolve for complete lack of legal targets. It simply doesn't get placed on the stack because it doesn't even trigger.






      share|improve this answer



























      • So does that mean it can still trigger later if you revive+kill the guardian in the second main phase?

        – Tezra
        Jul 30 at 20:14











      • @Tezra No. That would be a different Golden Gardian (even if it's represented by the same physical card). When a card refers to itself by name, it means "this object". [CR 201.4] And that object ceased to exist the moment it left the battlefield. [CR 400.7]

        – ikegami
        Jul 31 at 3:02













      6












      6








      6







      Golden Guardian will stay dead.




      That part of Golden Guardian's ability is a delayed triggered ability. It won't trigger because it's only created during the resolution of the activated ability.




      603.7a Delayed triggered abilities are created during the resolution of spells or abilities, as the result of a replacement effect being applied, or as a result of a static ability that allows a player to take an action. A delayed triggered ability won’t trigger until it has actually been created, even if its trigger event occurred just beforehand. Other events that happen earlier may make the trigger event impossible.



      Example: Part of an effect reads “When this creature leaves the battlefield,” but the creature in question leaves the battlefield before the spell or ability creating the effect resolves. In this case, the delayed ability never triggers.



      Example: If an effect reads “When this creature becomes untapped” and the named creature becomes untapped before the effect resolves, the ability waits for the next time that creature untaps.




      (Empahsis mine)



      A ruling on Golden Guardian confirms this.




      If Golden Guardian leaves the battlefield before its activated ability has resolved, it won’t be returned to the battlefield when the ability resolves.




      When Golden Guardian's activated ability resolves,



      1. You are instructed to have the Golden Guardian fights another target creature. Nothing happens because the Golden Guardian no longer exists.[CR 701.12b]


      2. You are instructed to create a delayed triggered ability. It will never trigger because the creature it references in its trigger condition no longer exists.[CR 201.4, 400.7]



      PS - It doesn't fizzle, which means removed from the stack as it would resolve for complete lack of legal targets. It simply doesn't get placed on the stack because it doesn't even trigger.






      share|improve this answer















      Golden Guardian will stay dead.




      That part of Golden Guardian's ability is a delayed triggered ability. It won't trigger because it's only created during the resolution of the activated ability.




      603.7a Delayed triggered abilities are created during the resolution of spells or abilities, as the result of a replacement effect being applied, or as a result of a static ability that allows a player to take an action. A delayed triggered ability won’t trigger until it has actually been created, even if its trigger event occurred just beforehand. Other events that happen earlier may make the trigger event impossible.



      Example: Part of an effect reads “When this creature leaves the battlefield,” but the creature in question leaves the battlefield before the spell or ability creating the effect resolves. In this case, the delayed ability never triggers.



      Example: If an effect reads “When this creature becomes untapped” and the named creature becomes untapped before the effect resolves, the ability waits for the next time that creature untaps.




      (Empahsis mine)



      A ruling on Golden Guardian confirms this.




      If Golden Guardian leaves the battlefield before its activated ability has resolved, it won’t be returned to the battlefield when the ability resolves.




      When Golden Guardian's activated ability resolves,



      1. You are instructed to have the Golden Guardian fights another target creature. Nothing happens because the Golden Guardian no longer exists.[CR 701.12b]


      2. You are instructed to create a delayed triggered ability. It will never trigger because the creature it references in its trigger condition no longer exists.[CR 201.4, 400.7]



      PS - It doesn't fizzle, which means removed from the stack as it would resolve for complete lack of legal targets. It simply doesn't get placed on the stack because it doesn't even trigger.







      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited Aug 1 at 3:48

























      answered Jul 30 at 1:33









      ikegamiikegami

      42k3 gold badges68 silver badges141 bronze badges




      42k3 gold badges68 silver badges141 bronze badges















      • So does that mean it can still trigger later if you revive+kill the guardian in the second main phase?

        – Tezra
        Jul 30 at 20:14











      • @Tezra No. That would be a different Golden Gardian (even if it's represented by the same physical card). When a card refers to itself by name, it means "this object". [CR 201.4] And that object ceased to exist the moment it left the battlefield. [CR 400.7]

        – ikegami
        Jul 31 at 3:02

















      • So does that mean it can still trigger later if you revive+kill the guardian in the second main phase?

        – Tezra
        Jul 30 at 20:14











      • @Tezra No. That would be a different Golden Gardian (even if it's represented by the same physical card). When a card refers to itself by name, it means "this object". [CR 201.4] And that object ceased to exist the moment it left the battlefield. [CR 400.7]

        – ikegami
        Jul 31 at 3:02
















      So does that mean it can still trigger later if you revive+kill the guardian in the second main phase?

      – Tezra
      Jul 30 at 20:14





      So does that mean it can still trigger later if you revive+kill the guardian in the second main phase?

      – Tezra
      Jul 30 at 20:14













      @Tezra No. That would be a different Golden Gardian (even if it's represented by the same physical card). When a card refers to itself by name, it means "this object". [CR 201.4] And that object ceased to exist the moment it left the battlefield. [CR 400.7]

      – ikegami
      Jul 31 at 3:02





      @Tezra No. That would be a different Golden Gardian (even if it's represented by the same physical card). When a card refers to itself by name, it means "this object". [CR 201.4] And that object ceased to exist the moment it left the battlefield. [CR 400.7]

      – ikegami
      Jul 31 at 3:02













      8














      Golden Guardian will stay dead.



      Since the ability doesn't resolve until after Golden Guardian dies, it won't "see" the Guardian die, and therefore won't trigger.



      There is a Gatherer ruling that states this specifically:




      If Golden Guardian leaves the battlefield before its activated ability has resolved, it won’t be returned to the battlefield when the ability resolves.







      share|improve this answer































        8














        Golden Guardian will stay dead.



        Since the ability doesn't resolve until after Golden Guardian dies, it won't "see" the Guardian die, and therefore won't trigger.



        There is a Gatherer ruling that states this specifically:




        If Golden Guardian leaves the battlefield before its activated ability has resolved, it won’t be returned to the battlefield when the ability resolves.







        share|improve this answer





























          8












          8








          8







          Golden Guardian will stay dead.



          Since the ability doesn't resolve until after Golden Guardian dies, it won't "see" the Guardian die, and therefore won't trigger.



          There is a Gatherer ruling that states this specifically:




          If Golden Guardian leaves the battlefield before its activated ability has resolved, it won’t be returned to the battlefield when the ability resolves.







          share|improve this answer















          Golden Guardian will stay dead.



          Since the ability doesn't resolve until after Golden Guardian dies, it won't "see" the Guardian die, and therefore won't trigger.



          There is a Gatherer ruling that states this specifically:




          If Golden Guardian leaves the battlefield before its activated ability has resolved, it won’t be returned to the battlefield when the ability resolves.








          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited Jul 29 at 18:38

























          answered Jul 29 at 18:33









          BJ MyersBJ Myers

          4,3311 gold badge9 silver badges32 bronze badges




          4,3311 gold badge9 silver badges32 bronze badges
























              7














              If the Golden Guardian dies before its ability resolves, then the ability will effectively do nothing and the Guardian will stay dead.



              The ability does two things: it has Golden Guardian fight the target creature, then it creates a delayed triggered ability that brings the Guardian back from the graveyard transformed when it dies. If the Guardian is already dead, the fight instruction will do nothing because both creatures need to be alive to fight, and the triggered ability will be created but it will never trigger because the Guardian is already dead.






              share|improve this answer





























                7














                If the Golden Guardian dies before its ability resolves, then the ability will effectively do nothing and the Guardian will stay dead.



                The ability does two things: it has Golden Guardian fight the target creature, then it creates a delayed triggered ability that brings the Guardian back from the graveyard transformed when it dies. If the Guardian is already dead, the fight instruction will do nothing because both creatures need to be alive to fight, and the triggered ability will be created but it will never trigger because the Guardian is already dead.






                share|improve this answer



























                  7












                  7








                  7







                  If the Golden Guardian dies before its ability resolves, then the ability will effectively do nothing and the Guardian will stay dead.



                  The ability does two things: it has Golden Guardian fight the target creature, then it creates a delayed triggered ability that brings the Guardian back from the graveyard transformed when it dies. If the Guardian is already dead, the fight instruction will do nothing because both creatures need to be alive to fight, and the triggered ability will be created but it will never trigger because the Guardian is already dead.






                  share|improve this answer













                  If the Golden Guardian dies before its ability resolves, then the ability will effectively do nothing and the Guardian will stay dead.



                  The ability does two things: it has Golden Guardian fight the target creature, then it creates a delayed triggered ability that brings the Guardian back from the graveyard transformed when it dies. If the Guardian is already dead, the fight instruction will do nothing because both creatures need to be alive to fight, and the triggered ability will be created but it will never trigger because the Guardian is already dead.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered Jul 29 at 18:32









                  murgatroid99murgatroid99

                  50.8k8 gold badges131 silver badges216 bronze badges




                  50.8k8 gold badges131 silver badges216 bronze badges






























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