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Must a song using the A minor scale begin or end with an Am chord? If not, how can I tell what the scale is?


How to know if it's a mode or scale?If I am playing lead in G scale, does it mean that I must start with a G note and end with a G note?How to know if it's a mode or scale?Naming pitch and interval collectionsChord progression if the chords are not part of the scale?If I am playing lead in G scale, does it mean that I must start with a G note and end with a G note?Did the modes change when they came to be “expressed as permutations of the major-minor scale system”?Chord construction using the minor scaleWhat is the a way to borrow a minor #3 chord into a minor scale?How to know which key a song is written in with the same key signature?How can a scale sound sadder/darker than the scale with the same key signature?How do you think of the natural minor scale (or any non-major scale), when you play it?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








7















Is it a must for a song using the A minor scale to begin or end with an Am chord?



If not, how can I tell what the scale is?



For example, how can I differentiate between the C major scale, A minor scale, C Ionian scale, and E Phrygian scale? All of them are on the white keys on the piano!










share|improve this question


























  • related: music.stackexchange.com/questions/12131/…

    – Dom
    Jul 29 at 19:38











  • also related: music.stackexchange.com/questions/29512/…

    – Dom
    Jul 29 at 19:39











  • "Ionian scale" is just another name for natural major scale, like "Aeolian scale" is another name for natural minor.

    – trolley813
    Jul 30 at 8:28






  • 1





    In music, very little is a must.

    – Mast
    Jul 30 at 11:17

















7















Is it a must for a song using the A minor scale to begin or end with an Am chord?



If not, how can I tell what the scale is?



For example, how can I differentiate between the C major scale, A minor scale, C Ionian scale, and E Phrygian scale? All of them are on the white keys on the piano!










share|improve this question


























  • related: music.stackexchange.com/questions/12131/…

    – Dom
    Jul 29 at 19:38











  • also related: music.stackexchange.com/questions/29512/…

    – Dom
    Jul 29 at 19:39











  • "Ionian scale" is just another name for natural major scale, like "Aeolian scale" is another name for natural minor.

    – trolley813
    Jul 30 at 8:28






  • 1





    In music, very little is a must.

    – Mast
    Jul 30 at 11:17













7












7








7








Is it a must for a song using the A minor scale to begin or end with an Am chord?



If not, how can I tell what the scale is?



For example, how can I differentiate between the C major scale, A minor scale, C Ionian scale, and E Phrygian scale? All of them are on the white keys on the piano!










share|improve this question
















Is it a must for a song using the A minor scale to begin or end with an Am chord?



If not, how can I tell what the scale is?



For example, how can I differentiate between the C major scale, A minor scale, C Ionian scale, and E Phrygian scale? All of them are on the white keys on the piano!







piano chords scales modes






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Jul 29 at 19:13









topo morto

33.1k2 gold badges53 silver badges126 bronze badges




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asked Jul 29 at 10:17









ShadiShadi

362 bronze badges




362 bronze badges















  • related: music.stackexchange.com/questions/12131/…

    – Dom
    Jul 29 at 19:38











  • also related: music.stackexchange.com/questions/29512/…

    – Dom
    Jul 29 at 19:39











  • "Ionian scale" is just another name for natural major scale, like "Aeolian scale" is another name for natural minor.

    – trolley813
    Jul 30 at 8:28






  • 1





    In music, very little is a must.

    – Mast
    Jul 30 at 11:17

















  • related: music.stackexchange.com/questions/12131/…

    – Dom
    Jul 29 at 19:38











  • also related: music.stackexchange.com/questions/29512/…

    – Dom
    Jul 29 at 19:39











  • "Ionian scale" is just another name for natural major scale, like "Aeolian scale" is another name for natural minor.

    – trolley813
    Jul 30 at 8:28






  • 1





    In music, very little is a must.

    – Mast
    Jul 30 at 11:17
















related: music.stackexchange.com/questions/12131/…

– Dom
Jul 29 at 19:38





related: music.stackexchange.com/questions/12131/…

– Dom
Jul 29 at 19:38













also related: music.stackexchange.com/questions/29512/…

– Dom
Jul 29 at 19:39





also related: music.stackexchange.com/questions/29512/…

– Dom
Jul 29 at 19:39













"Ionian scale" is just another name for natural major scale, like "Aeolian scale" is another name for natural minor.

– trolley813
Jul 30 at 8:28





"Ionian scale" is just another name for natural major scale, like "Aeolian scale" is another name for natural minor.

– trolley813
Jul 30 at 8:28




1




1





In music, very little is a must.

– Mast
Jul 30 at 11:17





In music, very little is a must.

– Mast
Jul 30 at 11:17










7 Answers
7






active

oldest

votes


















8















how can i know the scale ? For example, how to differentiate between C major scale, A minor scale, C ionian scale, E phrygian scale?? All of them are on white keys on piano.!!




You need to learn to feel what note is the tonic or 'home note' - the note that the piece of music "pulls towards" or comes "home" to. This sense of coming home can come from various reasons - e.g. the melody may seem to move towards hitting the "home" note on important beats, or a bassline riff might be focused around that note. Another aspect is the use of notes closely-related to the root, such as the perfect 4th and 5th - 5 of the 7 modes contain both of these (the exceptions being Lydian and Locrian).



Once this sense of root note is established, the reason that C major, A minor, and E phrygian sound so different is because the white notes form different interval patterns relative to the root notes C, A, and E. For example, in terms of whole tones and half tones,



  • C ionian has a whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half pattern

  • A Aeolian has a whole, half, whole, whole, half, whole, whole pattern

  • E phrygian hs a half, whole, whole, whole, half, whole, whole pattern

These different patterns relative to the root makes the mood of the different modes different. Recognising these moods might be another way to get a feel for what mode a piece is in.




Is it a must for a song on Am scale to begin or end with Am chord




No, but starting the song with the Am chord, or playing the Am chord on important points in the song, is another of the ways of establishing A as the home note.






share|improve this answer



























  • Not so sure that the patterns of tones/semitones are the definitive factors. Yes, of course they exist, but melodies are not usually made up using runs from these patterns.

    – Tim
    Jul 29 at 11:21











  • @Tim Well sure - I'm not saying that those patterns represent the order in which notes are played in real tunes, just that they define the specific notes in the scale given any specific root. Isn't that always the way with scales? Or am I misunderstanding you?

    – topo morto
    Jul 29 at 12:15











  • @Tim -- a Phrygian phrase is likely to emphasize the b2, or a Dorian phrase is likely to emphasize the 6, i.e., the notes that distinguish the modes are often emphasized to help establish their sounds. I take it that this is what topo is getting at with interval patterns relative to root notes.

    – David Bowling
    Jul 29 at 12:34











  • @DavidBowling - what I'm saying is that given a phrase played on white keys may, or may not give clues as to whether it comes from C Ionian, D Dorian, E Phrygian, A Aeolian (especially!) et al, necessarily.

    – Tim
    Jul 29 at 14:15












  • @Tim a phrase may not give clues as to the root, but a whole song typically does. If it doesn't, i guess that would be the exception that proves the rule insofar as it wouldn't definitively be in any particular mode..?

    – topo morto
    Jul 29 at 19:58


















4














A lot of music is similar to a journey. It starts at home, and eventually ends up back there. it might visit other placess on the way, but they won't always feel like home, back where the journey started.



So, to establish a key, most music will start with the root chord. here are of course anacruces, which are the short starts before the main chord, which then establishes where 'one' is. So, a piece in key C major will probably start with that chord, or harmony. In key A minor, that piece will start with that chord, or harmony.



The same principle counts for minor keys - except that the leading note - one semitone below the root - the one that pulls most towards the root, is missing in the natural minor scale notes. So, it gets to a sharpened version of that 7th note. Then it sounds like it needs to end up on the tonic, when that's played.



The same doesn't happen with the other modes, as strongly. So here, we have to re-visit 'home' more often, to try to establish where it is. listen to modal stuff, and you'll hear all of this happening.






share|improve this answer
































    2














    You seem to be asking more than one thing here.



    I can cite an example right off the bat that is in A min, starts on A min and ends on B maj chord. Luis Millan 6 pavanas and a fantasia (pavan #1). Of course the very next pavan starts on B maj so...



    CORRECTION: pavan #1 starts on A min and ends on A maj (not B maj). Sorry.



    You absolutely do not have to start and/or end on the chord that represents the first degree of the key you are in but that generally sounds best. As an art form there are no "rules" but in fact music is very mathematical and in Western music we have come to appreciate certain chord movements more than others. There is a definite feeling of completeness when a song starts and ends on the chord of the key (more so for ending, many songs start on the V or other chord but end on I). However, ending on another degree can be useful for expressing another feeling.



    The basic chords that exist within a key make a natural cycle called the circle progression, that moves in 4ths through the key starting and ending on I.



    I - maj



    IV - maj



    vii - dim



    iii - min



    vi - min



    ii - min



    V - maj (add 7 for resolution to I)



    I - maj



    Of course 7th may be added. With more knowledge of chord substitutions one can see that this is really a cover (or extension) of the basic I - IV - V progression. Once you get the circle progression in your ear you almost can't stop hearing it. It's present implicitly in a lot of music even if the players are not literally playing the exact sequence of chords. As for learning more about modes, I think it's a great idea but not sure that will shed light on your question. All seven diatonic modes are related to the major scale starting on different degrees on the scale.



    Ionian (Major) starts on 1 (or Do)



    Dorian starts on 2 (Re)



    Phygian on 3 (Mi)



    Lydian on 4 (Fa)



    Mixolydian on 5 (Sol)



    Aeolian (Natural Minor) on 6 (La)



    Locrean on 7 (Ti)



    There is another set of altered modes based on the melodic minor scale. But the point is, they are all related so once you understand the structure of western music you don't really need to have all the hole tone - half tone patterns memorized.



    In my opinion one of the more important aspects of Western music is the relation between chords in the scale and the scale tones or degrees that act as a root. A traditional approach to harmony theory would point out that all notes in the major scale can be harmonized or covered with just 3 chords, the I, IV and V. Also, the concept of a resolution or cadence is a corner stone of the western musical tradition. This is the sound of V7 --> I. This is such a "strong" sound that give one the feeling of completeness that it is very common for songs to end this way. But again I must stress that this is a component of classical harmony theory and is based on cultural tastes. Not a law of physics which cannot be broken.



    As far and identifying all the modes on the "white keys" of a piano. Using the formula I gave above you are in the key of C. Play D to D and that is Dorian, E to E = Phygian, etc.






    share|improve this answer


































      1














      In my opinion, you can get rather bogged down in Greek names for modes.



      For example: if you are using E phrygian or aeolian, you are still in E minor. In either case you are in E minor, and that's the most important thing.



      E Phrygian: E F G A B C D E
      E Aeolian : E F# G A B C D E



      They are almost identical, except that in one case, the 2nd is flatted.



      If you think of them both as E minor, and train your ear to hear how other tones outside of the 3rd and 5th have been altered, you dramatically reduce the number of patterns to learn and Greek names to memorise.



      If you get your major, harmonic and melodic minor scales thoroughly down, you will find that starting them from different degrees is rather easy. Simplify the problem.






      share|improve this answer




















      • 1





        Likewise, Dorian can be thought of as a minor tonality.

        – topo morto
        Jul 29 at 15:30











      • There are only seven names to learn. Hardly taxing for the average memory!

        – Tim
        Jul 29 at 17:20











      • it's more a question about what is useful to know and what is not. If you are hearing a certain pattern of tones in a real time musical situation, knowing the Greek name doesn't help much.

        – dmb
        Jul 30 at 7:16


















      1














      The tonic note is singular in its ability to indicate finality. No other note in the scale can end passages as effectively. Yes you can end on a V - vi progression or a IV - V, but unless the passage has a leading tone resolving to a tonic you are most assuredly going to have the passage end on a 'hanging' or in other words it is going to have an ending that sounds unresolved.



      Now, this does not mean an unresolved ending is bad. Most TV shows that end on some sort of cliffhangers use an unresolved ending to great effect. So it is not as if such an ending does not have its place, the question is just would you want this as a rule.



      Most music, like most books want a beginning, a middle and an end. You want an introduction to some sort of melodic or harmonic device, you want a middle that takes the introduction and builds on it in some sort of creative way and then a meaningful end.



      To be quite frank, the easiest way to have a meaningful ending to a piece is just simply having a V - I resolution.






      share|improve this answer


































        0














        There is a history behind the modes that you listed. But in terms of theory, the modes you listed are based on their relationship to the C major tonality (which is based on playing all the white keys. A seven note diatonic scale.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatonic_scale)



        The pattern used for the seven notes of the scale denote (no pun intented) the mode (tonality) that you are in. Starting and stopping on the Am scale is only necessary if you want to give the feeling of resolve based on what is called a cadence. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadence).



        A good example of not ending on the tonic of a scale are those scary movie soundtracks where you feel uncomfortable because the music doesn't seem to give you a feeling of rest.






        share|improve this answer
































          0















          Is it a must for a song using the A minor scale to begin or end with an Am chord?




          I think your question can be generalize to: must a song begin or end with a tonic chord?



          A lot of music starts and ends with the tonic chord. Sometimes the beginning is not the tonic, but the ending is.



          But some music is flexible regarding what scale is being used and what chords start and end the piece. Below is an example I played recently. It may not be the style of music you have in mind, but it illustrates the point about scales and chords.



          Binchois, De Plus en Plus se Renouvelle








          The music is from the late Medieval and works with something called musica ficta which isn't the same as the major/minor system. for simplicity I'll refer to major and minor.



          It starts on a G major chord then moves through E minor to a C major chord. Scale-wise I think it sounds like C major. Then is clearly moves to a G chord and uses a F# in the scale which moves the scale into G major.



          enter image description here



          The ending is on a D minor chord. Scale wise a C# is used and both B flat and B natural are used which puts it in D minor.



          enter image description here



          So, we can see in this example that a song doesn't have to start and end on the same chord or scale.



          A copy of the score is at IMSLP.




          ...how can I tell what the scale is?




          That's a separate and more complicated question that depends a lot on harmonic style. But, in the case of proper major/minor scales - and in the case of musica ficta - you can look for the leading tone. The leading tone is a half step below the tonic. So, while C major and A minor have the same key signature of no sharps/flats, A minor will use a G# for the leading tone.






          share|improve this answer



























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            7 Answers
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            7 Answers
            7






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            8















            how can i know the scale ? For example, how to differentiate between C major scale, A minor scale, C ionian scale, E phrygian scale?? All of them are on white keys on piano.!!




            You need to learn to feel what note is the tonic or 'home note' - the note that the piece of music "pulls towards" or comes "home" to. This sense of coming home can come from various reasons - e.g. the melody may seem to move towards hitting the "home" note on important beats, or a bassline riff might be focused around that note. Another aspect is the use of notes closely-related to the root, such as the perfect 4th and 5th - 5 of the 7 modes contain both of these (the exceptions being Lydian and Locrian).



            Once this sense of root note is established, the reason that C major, A minor, and E phrygian sound so different is because the white notes form different interval patterns relative to the root notes C, A, and E. For example, in terms of whole tones and half tones,



            • C ionian has a whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half pattern

            • A Aeolian has a whole, half, whole, whole, half, whole, whole pattern

            • E phrygian hs a half, whole, whole, whole, half, whole, whole pattern

            These different patterns relative to the root makes the mood of the different modes different. Recognising these moods might be another way to get a feel for what mode a piece is in.




            Is it a must for a song on Am scale to begin or end with Am chord




            No, but starting the song with the Am chord, or playing the Am chord on important points in the song, is another of the ways of establishing A as the home note.






            share|improve this answer



























            • Not so sure that the patterns of tones/semitones are the definitive factors. Yes, of course they exist, but melodies are not usually made up using runs from these patterns.

              – Tim
              Jul 29 at 11:21











            • @Tim Well sure - I'm not saying that those patterns represent the order in which notes are played in real tunes, just that they define the specific notes in the scale given any specific root. Isn't that always the way with scales? Or am I misunderstanding you?

              – topo morto
              Jul 29 at 12:15











            • @Tim -- a Phrygian phrase is likely to emphasize the b2, or a Dorian phrase is likely to emphasize the 6, i.e., the notes that distinguish the modes are often emphasized to help establish their sounds. I take it that this is what topo is getting at with interval patterns relative to root notes.

              – David Bowling
              Jul 29 at 12:34











            • @DavidBowling - what I'm saying is that given a phrase played on white keys may, or may not give clues as to whether it comes from C Ionian, D Dorian, E Phrygian, A Aeolian (especially!) et al, necessarily.

              – Tim
              Jul 29 at 14:15












            • @Tim a phrase may not give clues as to the root, but a whole song typically does. If it doesn't, i guess that would be the exception that proves the rule insofar as it wouldn't definitively be in any particular mode..?

              – topo morto
              Jul 29 at 19:58















            8















            how can i know the scale ? For example, how to differentiate between C major scale, A minor scale, C ionian scale, E phrygian scale?? All of them are on white keys on piano.!!




            You need to learn to feel what note is the tonic or 'home note' - the note that the piece of music "pulls towards" or comes "home" to. This sense of coming home can come from various reasons - e.g. the melody may seem to move towards hitting the "home" note on important beats, or a bassline riff might be focused around that note. Another aspect is the use of notes closely-related to the root, such as the perfect 4th and 5th - 5 of the 7 modes contain both of these (the exceptions being Lydian and Locrian).



            Once this sense of root note is established, the reason that C major, A minor, and E phrygian sound so different is because the white notes form different interval patterns relative to the root notes C, A, and E. For example, in terms of whole tones and half tones,



            • C ionian has a whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half pattern

            • A Aeolian has a whole, half, whole, whole, half, whole, whole pattern

            • E phrygian hs a half, whole, whole, whole, half, whole, whole pattern

            These different patterns relative to the root makes the mood of the different modes different. Recognising these moods might be another way to get a feel for what mode a piece is in.




            Is it a must for a song on Am scale to begin or end with Am chord




            No, but starting the song with the Am chord, or playing the Am chord on important points in the song, is another of the ways of establishing A as the home note.






            share|improve this answer



























            • Not so sure that the patterns of tones/semitones are the definitive factors. Yes, of course they exist, but melodies are not usually made up using runs from these patterns.

              – Tim
              Jul 29 at 11:21











            • @Tim Well sure - I'm not saying that those patterns represent the order in which notes are played in real tunes, just that they define the specific notes in the scale given any specific root. Isn't that always the way with scales? Or am I misunderstanding you?

              – topo morto
              Jul 29 at 12:15











            • @Tim -- a Phrygian phrase is likely to emphasize the b2, or a Dorian phrase is likely to emphasize the 6, i.e., the notes that distinguish the modes are often emphasized to help establish their sounds. I take it that this is what topo is getting at with interval patterns relative to root notes.

              – David Bowling
              Jul 29 at 12:34











            • @DavidBowling - what I'm saying is that given a phrase played on white keys may, or may not give clues as to whether it comes from C Ionian, D Dorian, E Phrygian, A Aeolian (especially!) et al, necessarily.

              – Tim
              Jul 29 at 14:15












            • @Tim a phrase may not give clues as to the root, but a whole song typically does. If it doesn't, i guess that would be the exception that proves the rule insofar as it wouldn't definitively be in any particular mode..?

              – topo morto
              Jul 29 at 19:58













            8












            8








            8








            how can i know the scale ? For example, how to differentiate between C major scale, A minor scale, C ionian scale, E phrygian scale?? All of them are on white keys on piano.!!




            You need to learn to feel what note is the tonic or 'home note' - the note that the piece of music "pulls towards" or comes "home" to. This sense of coming home can come from various reasons - e.g. the melody may seem to move towards hitting the "home" note on important beats, or a bassline riff might be focused around that note. Another aspect is the use of notes closely-related to the root, such as the perfect 4th and 5th - 5 of the 7 modes contain both of these (the exceptions being Lydian and Locrian).



            Once this sense of root note is established, the reason that C major, A minor, and E phrygian sound so different is because the white notes form different interval patterns relative to the root notes C, A, and E. For example, in terms of whole tones and half tones,



            • C ionian has a whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half pattern

            • A Aeolian has a whole, half, whole, whole, half, whole, whole pattern

            • E phrygian hs a half, whole, whole, whole, half, whole, whole pattern

            These different patterns relative to the root makes the mood of the different modes different. Recognising these moods might be another way to get a feel for what mode a piece is in.




            Is it a must for a song on Am scale to begin or end with Am chord




            No, but starting the song with the Am chord, or playing the Am chord on important points in the song, is another of the ways of establishing A as the home note.






            share|improve this answer
















            how can i know the scale ? For example, how to differentiate between C major scale, A minor scale, C ionian scale, E phrygian scale?? All of them are on white keys on piano.!!




            You need to learn to feel what note is the tonic or 'home note' - the note that the piece of music "pulls towards" or comes "home" to. This sense of coming home can come from various reasons - e.g. the melody may seem to move towards hitting the "home" note on important beats, or a bassline riff might be focused around that note. Another aspect is the use of notes closely-related to the root, such as the perfect 4th and 5th - 5 of the 7 modes contain both of these (the exceptions being Lydian and Locrian).



            Once this sense of root note is established, the reason that C major, A minor, and E phrygian sound so different is because the white notes form different interval patterns relative to the root notes C, A, and E. For example, in terms of whole tones and half tones,



            • C ionian has a whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half pattern

            • A Aeolian has a whole, half, whole, whole, half, whole, whole pattern

            • E phrygian hs a half, whole, whole, whole, half, whole, whole pattern

            These different patterns relative to the root makes the mood of the different modes different. Recognising these moods might be another way to get a feel for what mode a piece is in.




            Is it a must for a song on Am scale to begin or end with Am chord




            No, but starting the song with the Am chord, or playing the Am chord on important points in the song, is another of the ways of establishing A as the home note.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited Jul 29 at 22:37

























            answered Jul 29 at 10:53









            topo mortotopo morto

            33.1k2 gold badges53 silver badges126 bronze badges




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            • Not so sure that the patterns of tones/semitones are the definitive factors. Yes, of course they exist, but melodies are not usually made up using runs from these patterns.

              – Tim
              Jul 29 at 11:21











            • @Tim Well sure - I'm not saying that those patterns represent the order in which notes are played in real tunes, just that they define the specific notes in the scale given any specific root. Isn't that always the way with scales? Or am I misunderstanding you?

              – topo morto
              Jul 29 at 12:15











            • @Tim -- a Phrygian phrase is likely to emphasize the b2, or a Dorian phrase is likely to emphasize the 6, i.e., the notes that distinguish the modes are often emphasized to help establish their sounds. I take it that this is what topo is getting at with interval patterns relative to root notes.

              – David Bowling
              Jul 29 at 12:34











            • @DavidBowling - what I'm saying is that given a phrase played on white keys may, or may not give clues as to whether it comes from C Ionian, D Dorian, E Phrygian, A Aeolian (especially!) et al, necessarily.

              – Tim
              Jul 29 at 14:15












            • @Tim a phrase may not give clues as to the root, but a whole song typically does. If it doesn't, i guess that would be the exception that proves the rule insofar as it wouldn't definitively be in any particular mode..?

              – topo morto
              Jul 29 at 19:58

















            • Not so sure that the patterns of tones/semitones are the definitive factors. Yes, of course they exist, but melodies are not usually made up using runs from these patterns.

              – Tim
              Jul 29 at 11:21











            • @Tim Well sure - I'm not saying that those patterns represent the order in which notes are played in real tunes, just that they define the specific notes in the scale given any specific root. Isn't that always the way with scales? Or am I misunderstanding you?

              – topo morto
              Jul 29 at 12:15











            • @Tim -- a Phrygian phrase is likely to emphasize the b2, or a Dorian phrase is likely to emphasize the 6, i.e., the notes that distinguish the modes are often emphasized to help establish their sounds. I take it that this is what topo is getting at with interval patterns relative to root notes.

              – David Bowling
              Jul 29 at 12:34











            • @DavidBowling - what I'm saying is that given a phrase played on white keys may, or may not give clues as to whether it comes from C Ionian, D Dorian, E Phrygian, A Aeolian (especially!) et al, necessarily.

              – Tim
              Jul 29 at 14:15












            • @Tim a phrase may not give clues as to the root, but a whole song typically does. If it doesn't, i guess that would be the exception that proves the rule insofar as it wouldn't definitively be in any particular mode..?

              – topo morto
              Jul 29 at 19:58
















            Not so sure that the patterns of tones/semitones are the definitive factors. Yes, of course they exist, but melodies are not usually made up using runs from these patterns.

            – Tim
            Jul 29 at 11:21





            Not so sure that the patterns of tones/semitones are the definitive factors. Yes, of course they exist, but melodies are not usually made up using runs from these patterns.

            – Tim
            Jul 29 at 11:21













            @Tim Well sure - I'm not saying that those patterns represent the order in which notes are played in real tunes, just that they define the specific notes in the scale given any specific root. Isn't that always the way with scales? Or am I misunderstanding you?

            – topo morto
            Jul 29 at 12:15





            @Tim Well sure - I'm not saying that those patterns represent the order in which notes are played in real tunes, just that they define the specific notes in the scale given any specific root. Isn't that always the way with scales? Or am I misunderstanding you?

            – topo morto
            Jul 29 at 12:15













            @Tim -- a Phrygian phrase is likely to emphasize the b2, or a Dorian phrase is likely to emphasize the 6, i.e., the notes that distinguish the modes are often emphasized to help establish their sounds. I take it that this is what topo is getting at with interval patterns relative to root notes.

            – David Bowling
            Jul 29 at 12:34





            @Tim -- a Phrygian phrase is likely to emphasize the b2, or a Dorian phrase is likely to emphasize the 6, i.e., the notes that distinguish the modes are often emphasized to help establish their sounds. I take it that this is what topo is getting at with interval patterns relative to root notes.

            – David Bowling
            Jul 29 at 12:34













            @DavidBowling - what I'm saying is that given a phrase played on white keys may, or may not give clues as to whether it comes from C Ionian, D Dorian, E Phrygian, A Aeolian (especially!) et al, necessarily.

            – Tim
            Jul 29 at 14:15






            @DavidBowling - what I'm saying is that given a phrase played on white keys may, or may not give clues as to whether it comes from C Ionian, D Dorian, E Phrygian, A Aeolian (especially!) et al, necessarily.

            – Tim
            Jul 29 at 14:15














            @Tim a phrase may not give clues as to the root, but a whole song typically does. If it doesn't, i guess that would be the exception that proves the rule insofar as it wouldn't definitively be in any particular mode..?

            – topo morto
            Jul 29 at 19:58





            @Tim a phrase may not give clues as to the root, but a whole song typically does. If it doesn't, i guess that would be the exception that proves the rule insofar as it wouldn't definitively be in any particular mode..?

            – topo morto
            Jul 29 at 19:58













            4














            A lot of music is similar to a journey. It starts at home, and eventually ends up back there. it might visit other placess on the way, but they won't always feel like home, back where the journey started.



            So, to establish a key, most music will start with the root chord. here are of course anacruces, which are the short starts before the main chord, which then establishes where 'one' is. So, a piece in key C major will probably start with that chord, or harmony. In key A minor, that piece will start with that chord, or harmony.



            The same principle counts for minor keys - except that the leading note - one semitone below the root - the one that pulls most towards the root, is missing in the natural minor scale notes. So, it gets to a sharpened version of that 7th note. Then it sounds like it needs to end up on the tonic, when that's played.



            The same doesn't happen with the other modes, as strongly. So here, we have to re-visit 'home' more often, to try to establish where it is. listen to modal stuff, and you'll hear all of this happening.






            share|improve this answer





























              4














              A lot of music is similar to a journey. It starts at home, and eventually ends up back there. it might visit other placess on the way, but they won't always feel like home, back where the journey started.



              So, to establish a key, most music will start with the root chord. here are of course anacruces, which are the short starts before the main chord, which then establishes where 'one' is. So, a piece in key C major will probably start with that chord, or harmony. In key A minor, that piece will start with that chord, or harmony.



              The same principle counts for minor keys - except that the leading note - one semitone below the root - the one that pulls most towards the root, is missing in the natural minor scale notes. So, it gets to a sharpened version of that 7th note. Then it sounds like it needs to end up on the tonic, when that's played.



              The same doesn't happen with the other modes, as strongly. So here, we have to re-visit 'home' more often, to try to establish where it is. listen to modal stuff, and you'll hear all of this happening.






              share|improve this answer



























                4












                4








                4







                A lot of music is similar to a journey. It starts at home, and eventually ends up back there. it might visit other placess on the way, but they won't always feel like home, back where the journey started.



                So, to establish a key, most music will start with the root chord. here are of course anacruces, which are the short starts before the main chord, which then establishes where 'one' is. So, a piece in key C major will probably start with that chord, or harmony. In key A minor, that piece will start with that chord, or harmony.



                The same principle counts for minor keys - except that the leading note - one semitone below the root - the one that pulls most towards the root, is missing in the natural minor scale notes. So, it gets to a sharpened version of that 7th note. Then it sounds like it needs to end up on the tonic, when that's played.



                The same doesn't happen with the other modes, as strongly. So here, we have to re-visit 'home' more often, to try to establish where it is. listen to modal stuff, and you'll hear all of this happening.






                share|improve this answer













                A lot of music is similar to a journey. It starts at home, and eventually ends up back there. it might visit other placess on the way, but they won't always feel like home, back where the journey started.



                So, to establish a key, most music will start with the root chord. here are of course anacruces, which are the short starts before the main chord, which then establishes where 'one' is. So, a piece in key C major will probably start with that chord, or harmony. In key A minor, that piece will start with that chord, or harmony.



                The same principle counts for minor keys - except that the leading note - one semitone below the root - the one that pulls most towards the root, is missing in the natural minor scale notes. So, it gets to a sharpened version of that 7th note. Then it sounds like it needs to end up on the tonic, when that's played.



                The same doesn't happen with the other modes, as strongly. So here, we have to re-visit 'home' more often, to try to establish where it is. listen to modal stuff, and you'll hear all of this happening.







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered Jul 29 at 10:43









                TimTim

                111k11 gold badges109 silver badges281 bronze badges




                111k11 gold badges109 silver badges281 bronze badges
























                    2














                    You seem to be asking more than one thing here.



                    I can cite an example right off the bat that is in A min, starts on A min and ends on B maj chord. Luis Millan 6 pavanas and a fantasia (pavan #1). Of course the very next pavan starts on B maj so...



                    CORRECTION: pavan #1 starts on A min and ends on A maj (not B maj). Sorry.



                    You absolutely do not have to start and/or end on the chord that represents the first degree of the key you are in but that generally sounds best. As an art form there are no "rules" but in fact music is very mathematical and in Western music we have come to appreciate certain chord movements more than others. There is a definite feeling of completeness when a song starts and ends on the chord of the key (more so for ending, many songs start on the V or other chord but end on I). However, ending on another degree can be useful for expressing another feeling.



                    The basic chords that exist within a key make a natural cycle called the circle progression, that moves in 4ths through the key starting and ending on I.



                    I - maj



                    IV - maj



                    vii - dim



                    iii - min



                    vi - min



                    ii - min



                    V - maj (add 7 for resolution to I)



                    I - maj



                    Of course 7th may be added. With more knowledge of chord substitutions one can see that this is really a cover (or extension) of the basic I - IV - V progression. Once you get the circle progression in your ear you almost can't stop hearing it. It's present implicitly in a lot of music even if the players are not literally playing the exact sequence of chords. As for learning more about modes, I think it's a great idea but not sure that will shed light on your question. All seven diatonic modes are related to the major scale starting on different degrees on the scale.



                    Ionian (Major) starts on 1 (or Do)



                    Dorian starts on 2 (Re)



                    Phygian on 3 (Mi)



                    Lydian on 4 (Fa)



                    Mixolydian on 5 (Sol)



                    Aeolian (Natural Minor) on 6 (La)



                    Locrean on 7 (Ti)



                    There is another set of altered modes based on the melodic minor scale. But the point is, they are all related so once you understand the structure of western music you don't really need to have all the hole tone - half tone patterns memorized.



                    In my opinion one of the more important aspects of Western music is the relation between chords in the scale and the scale tones or degrees that act as a root. A traditional approach to harmony theory would point out that all notes in the major scale can be harmonized or covered with just 3 chords, the I, IV and V. Also, the concept of a resolution or cadence is a corner stone of the western musical tradition. This is the sound of V7 --> I. This is such a "strong" sound that give one the feeling of completeness that it is very common for songs to end this way. But again I must stress that this is a component of classical harmony theory and is based on cultural tastes. Not a law of physics which cannot be broken.



                    As far and identifying all the modes on the "white keys" of a piano. Using the formula I gave above you are in the key of C. Play D to D and that is Dorian, E to E = Phygian, etc.






                    share|improve this answer































                      2














                      You seem to be asking more than one thing here.



                      I can cite an example right off the bat that is in A min, starts on A min and ends on B maj chord. Luis Millan 6 pavanas and a fantasia (pavan #1). Of course the very next pavan starts on B maj so...



                      CORRECTION: pavan #1 starts on A min and ends on A maj (not B maj). Sorry.



                      You absolutely do not have to start and/or end on the chord that represents the first degree of the key you are in but that generally sounds best. As an art form there are no "rules" but in fact music is very mathematical and in Western music we have come to appreciate certain chord movements more than others. There is a definite feeling of completeness when a song starts and ends on the chord of the key (more so for ending, many songs start on the V or other chord but end on I). However, ending on another degree can be useful for expressing another feeling.



                      The basic chords that exist within a key make a natural cycle called the circle progression, that moves in 4ths through the key starting and ending on I.



                      I - maj



                      IV - maj



                      vii - dim



                      iii - min



                      vi - min



                      ii - min



                      V - maj (add 7 for resolution to I)



                      I - maj



                      Of course 7th may be added. With more knowledge of chord substitutions one can see that this is really a cover (or extension) of the basic I - IV - V progression. Once you get the circle progression in your ear you almost can't stop hearing it. It's present implicitly in a lot of music even if the players are not literally playing the exact sequence of chords. As for learning more about modes, I think it's a great idea but not sure that will shed light on your question. All seven diatonic modes are related to the major scale starting on different degrees on the scale.



                      Ionian (Major) starts on 1 (or Do)



                      Dorian starts on 2 (Re)



                      Phygian on 3 (Mi)



                      Lydian on 4 (Fa)



                      Mixolydian on 5 (Sol)



                      Aeolian (Natural Minor) on 6 (La)



                      Locrean on 7 (Ti)



                      There is another set of altered modes based on the melodic minor scale. But the point is, they are all related so once you understand the structure of western music you don't really need to have all the hole tone - half tone patterns memorized.



                      In my opinion one of the more important aspects of Western music is the relation between chords in the scale and the scale tones or degrees that act as a root. A traditional approach to harmony theory would point out that all notes in the major scale can be harmonized or covered with just 3 chords, the I, IV and V. Also, the concept of a resolution or cadence is a corner stone of the western musical tradition. This is the sound of V7 --> I. This is such a "strong" sound that give one the feeling of completeness that it is very common for songs to end this way. But again I must stress that this is a component of classical harmony theory and is based on cultural tastes. Not a law of physics which cannot be broken.



                      As far and identifying all the modes on the "white keys" of a piano. Using the formula I gave above you are in the key of C. Play D to D and that is Dorian, E to E = Phygian, etc.






                      share|improve this answer





























                        2












                        2








                        2







                        You seem to be asking more than one thing here.



                        I can cite an example right off the bat that is in A min, starts on A min and ends on B maj chord. Luis Millan 6 pavanas and a fantasia (pavan #1). Of course the very next pavan starts on B maj so...



                        CORRECTION: pavan #1 starts on A min and ends on A maj (not B maj). Sorry.



                        You absolutely do not have to start and/or end on the chord that represents the first degree of the key you are in but that generally sounds best. As an art form there are no "rules" but in fact music is very mathematical and in Western music we have come to appreciate certain chord movements more than others. There is a definite feeling of completeness when a song starts and ends on the chord of the key (more so for ending, many songs start on the V or other chord but end on I). However, ending on another degree can be useful for expressing another feeling.



                        The basic chords that exist within a key make a natural cycle called the circle progression, that moves in 4ths through the key starting and ending on I.



                        I - maj



                        IV - maj



                        vii - dim



                        iii - min



                        vi - min



                        ii - min



                        V - maj (add 7 for resolution to I)



                        I - maj



                        Of course 7th may be added. With more knowledge of chord substitutions one can see that this is really a cover (or extension) of the basic I - IV - V progression. Once you get the circle progression in your ear you almost can't stop hearing it. It's present implicitly in a lot of music even if the players are not literally playing the exact sequence of chords. As for learning more about modes, I think it's a great idea but not sure that will shed light on your question. All seven diatonic modes are related to the major scale starting on different degrees on the scale.



                        Ionian (Major) starts on 1 (or Do)



                        Dorian starts on 2 (Re)



                        Phygian on 3 (Mi)



                        Lydian on 4 (Fa)



                        Mixolydian on 5 (Sol)



                        Aeolian (Natural Minor) on 6 (La)



                        Locrean on 7 (Ti)



                        There is another set of altered modes based on the melodic minor scale. But the point is, they are all related so once you understand the structure of western music you don't really need to have all the hole tone - half tone patterns memorized.



                        In my opinion one of the more important aspects of Western music is the relation between chords in the scale and the scale tones or degrees that act as a root. A traditional approach to harmony theory would point out that all notes in the major scale can be harmonized or covered with just 3 chords, the I, IV and V. Also, the concept of a resolution or cadence is a corner stone of the western musical tradition. This is the sound of V7 --> I. This is such a "strong" sound that give one the feeling of completeness that it is very common for songs to end this way. But again I must stress that this is a component of classical harmony theory and is based on cultural tastes. Not a law of physics which cannot be broken.



                        As far and identifying all the modes on the "white keys" of a piano. Using the formula I gave above you are in the key of C. Play D to D and that is Dorian, E to E = Phygian, etc.






                        share|improve this answer















                        You seem to be asking more than one thing here.



                        I can cite an example right off the bat that is in A min, starts on A min and ends on B maj chord. Luis Millan 6 pavanas and a fantasia (pavan #1). Of course the very next pavan starts on B maj so...



                        CORRECTION: pavan #1 starts on A min and ends on A maj (not B maj). Sorry.



                        You absolutely do not have to start and/or end on the chord that represents the first degree of the key you are in but that generally sounds best. As an art form there are no "rules" but in fact music is very mathematical and in Western music we have come to appreciate certain chord movements more than others. There is a definite feeling of completeness when a song starts and ends on the chord of the key (more so for ending, many songs start on the V or other chord but end on I). However, ending on another degree can be useful for expressing another feeling.



                        The basic chords that exist within a key make a natural cycle called the circle progression, that moves in 4ths through the key starting and ending on I.



                        I - maj



                        IV - maj



                        vii - dim



                        iii - min



                        vi - min



                        ii - min



                        V - maj (add 7 for resolution to I)



                        I - maj



                        Of course 7th may be added. With more knowledge of chord substitutions one can see that this is really a cover (or extension) of the basic I - IV - V progression. Once you get the circle progression in your ear you almost can't stop hearing it. It's present implicitly in a lot of music even if the players are not literally playing the exact sequence of chords. As for learning more about modes, I think it's a great idea but not sure that will shed light on your question. All seven diatonic modes are related to the major scale starting on different degrees on the scale.



                        Ionian (Major) starts on 1 (or Do)



                        Dorian starts on 2 (Re)



                        Phygian on 3 (Mi)



                        Lydian on 4 (Fa)



                        Mixolydian on 5 (Sol)



                        Aeolian (Natural Minor) on 6 (La)



                        Locrean on 7 (Ti)



                        There is another set of altered modes based on the melodic minor scale. But the point is, they are all related so once you understand the structure of western music you don't really need to have all the hole tone - half tone patterns memorized.



                        In my opinion one of the more important aspects of Western music is the relation between chords in the scale and the scale tones or degrees that act as a root. A traditional approach to harmony theory would point out that all notes in the major scale can be harmonized or covered with just 3 chords, the I, IV and V. Also, the concept of a resolution or cadence is a corner stone of the western musical tradition. This is the sound of V7 --> I. This is such a "strong" sound that give one the feeling of completeness that it is very common for songs to end this way. But again I must stress that this is a component of classical harmony theory and is based on cultural tastes. Not a law of physics which cannot be broken.



                        As far and identifying all the modes on the "white keys" of a piano. Using the formula I gave above you are in the key of C. Play D to D and that is Dorian, E to E = Phygian, etc.







                        share|improve this answer














                        share|improve this answer



                        share|improve this answer








                        edited Jul 30 at 21:19

























                        answered Jul 29 at 15:27









                        ggcgggcg

                        6,5026 silver badges26 bronze badges




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                            1














                            In my opinion, you can get rather bogged down in Greek names for modes.



                            For example: if you are using E phrygian or aeolian, you are still in E minor. In either case you are in E minor, and that's the most important thing.



                            E Phrygian: E F G A B C D E
                            E Aeolian : E F# G A B C D E



                            They are almost identical, except that in one case, the 2nd is flatted.



                            If you think of them both as E minor, and train your ear to hear how other tones outside of the 3rd and 5th have been altered, you dramatically reduce the number of patterns to learn and Greek names to memorise.



                            If you get your major, harmonic and melodic minor scales thoroughly down, you will find that starting them from different degrees is rather easy. Simplify the problem.






                            share|improve this answer




















                            • 1





                              Likewise, Dorian can be thought of as a minor tonality.

                              – topo morto
                              Jul 29 at 15:30











                            • There are only seven names to learn. Hardly taxing for the average memory!

                              – Tim
                              Jul 29 at 17:20











                            • it's more a question about what is useful to know and what is not. If you are hearing a certain pattern of tones in a real time musical situation, knowing the Greek name doesn't help much.

                              – dmb
                              Jul 30 at 7:16















                            1














                            In my opinion, you can get rather bogged down in Greek names for modes.



                            For example: if you are using E phrygian or aeolian, you are still in E minor. In either case you are in E minor, and that's the most important thing.



                            E Phrygian: E F G A B C D E
                            E Aeolian : E F# G A B C D E



                            They are almost identical, except that in one case, the 2nd is flatted.



                            If you think of them both as E minor, and train your ear to hear how other tones outside of the 3rd and 5th have been altered, you dramatically reduce the number of patterns to learn and Greek names to memorise.



                            If you get your major, harmonic and melodic minor scales thoroughly down, you will find that starting them from different degrees is rather easy. Simplify the problem.






                            share|improve this answer




















                            • 1





                              Likewise, Dorian can be thought of as a minor tonality.

                              – topo morto
                              Jul 29 at 15:30











                            • There are only seven names to learn. Hardly taxing for the average memory!

                              – Tim
                              Jul 29 at 17:20











                            • it's more a question about what is useful to know and what is not. If you are hearing a certain pattern of tones in a real time musical situation, knowing the Greek name doesn't help much.

                              – dmb
                              Jul 30 at 7:16













                            1












                            1








                            1







                            In my opinion, you can get rather bogged down in Greek names for modes.



                            For example: if you are using E phrygian or aeolian, you are still in E minor. In either case you are in E minor, and that's the most important thing.



                            E Phrygian: E F G A B C D E
                            E Aeolian : E F# G A B C D E



                            They are almost identical, except that in one case, the 2nd is flatted.



                            If you think of them both as E minor, and train your ear to hear how other tones outside of the 3rd and 5th have been altered, you dramatically reduce the number of patterns to learn and Greek names to memorise.



                            If you get your major, harmonic and melodic minor scales thoroughly down, you will find that starting them from different degrees is rather easy. Simplify the problem.






                            share|improve this answer













                            In my opinion, you can get rather bogged down in Greek names for modes.



                            For example: if you are using E phrygian or aeolian, you are still in E minor. In either case you are in E minor, and that's the most important thing.



                            E Phrygian: E F G A B C D E
                            E Aeolian : E F# G A B C D E



                            They are almost identical, except that in one case, the 2nd is flatted.



                            If you think of them both as E minor, and train your ear to hear how other tones outside of the 3rd and 5th have been altered, you dramatically reduce the number of patterns to learn and Greek names to memorise.



                            If you get your major, harmonic and melodic minor scales thoroughly down, you will find that starting them from different degrees is rather easy. Simplify the problem.







                            share|improve this answer












                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer










                            answered Jul 29 at 13:45









                            dmbdmb

                            1192 bronze badges




                            1192 bronze badges










                            • 1





                              Likewise, Dorian can be thought of as a minor tonality.

                              – topo morto
                              Jul 29 at 15:30











                            • There are only seven names to learn. Hardly taxing for the average memory!

                              – Tim
                              Jul 29 at 17:20











                            • it's more a question about what is useful to know and what is not. If you are hearing a certain pattern of tones in a real time musical situation, knowing the Greek name doesn't help much.

                              – dmb
                              Jul 30 at 7:16












                            • 1





                              Likewise, Dorian can be thought of as a minor tonality.

                              – topo morto
                              Jul 29 at 15:30











                            • There are only seven names to learn. Hardly taxing for the average memory!

                              – Tim
                              Jul 29 at 17:20











                            • it's more a question about what is useful to know and what is not. If you are hearing a certain pattern of tones in a real time musical situation, knowing the Greek name doesn't help much.

                              – dmb
                              Jul 30 at 7:16







                            1




                            1





                            Likewise, Dorian can be thought of as a minor tonality.

                            – topo morto
                            Jul 29 at 15:30





                            Likewise, Dorian can be thought of as a minor tonality.

                            – topo morto
                            Jul 29 at 15:30













                            There are only seven names to learn. Hardly taxing for the average memory!

                            – Tim
                            Jul 29 at 17:20





                            There are only seven names to learn. Hardly taxing for the average memory!

                            – Tim
                            Jul 29 at 17:20













                            it's more a question about what is useful to know and what is not. If you are hearing a certain pattern of tones in a real time musical situation, knowing the Greek name doesn't help much.

                            – dmb
                            Jul 30 at 7:16





                            it's more a question about what is useful to know and what is not. If you are hearing a certain pattern of tones in a real time musical situation, knowing the Greek name doesn't help much.

                            – dmb
                            Jul 30 at 7:16











                            1














                            The tonic note is singular in its ability to indicate finality. No other note in the scale can end passages as effectively. Yes you can end on a V - vi progression or a IV - V, but unless the passage has a leading tone resolving to a tonic you are most assuredly going to have the passage end on a 'hanging' or in other words it is going to have an ending that sounds unresolved.



                            Now, this does not mean an unresolved ending is bad. Most TV shows that end on some sort of cliffhangers use an unresolved ending to great effect. So it is not as if such an ending does not have its place, the question is just would you want this as a rule.



                            Most music, like most books want a beginning, a middle and an end. You want an introduction to some sort of melodic or harmonic device, you want a middle that takes the introduction and builds on it in some sort of creative way and then a meaningful end.



                            To be quite frank, the easiest way to have a meaningful ending to a piece is just simply having a V - I resolution.






                            share|improve this answer































                              1














                              The tonic note is singular in its ability to indicate finality. No other note in the scale can end passages as effectively. Yes you can end on a V - vi progression or a IV - V, but unless the passage has a leading tone resolving to a tonic you are most assuredly going to have the passage end on a 'hanging' or in other words it is going to have an ending that sounds unresolved.



                              Now, this does not mean an unresolved ending is bad. Most TV shows that end on some sort of cliffhangers use an unresolved ending to great effect. So it is not as if such an ending does not have its place, the question is just would you want this as a rule.



                              Most music, like most books want a beginning, a middle and an end. You want an introduction to some sort of melodic or harmonic device, you want a middle that takes the introduction and builds on it in some sort of creative way and then a meaningful end.



                              To be quite frank, the easiest way to have a meaningful ending to a piece is just simply having a V - I resolution.






                              share|improve this answer





























                                1












                                1








                                1







                                The tonic note is singular in its ability to indicate finality. No other note in the scale can end passages as effectively. Yes you can end on a V - vi progression or a IV - V, but unless the passage has a leading tone resolving to a tonic you are most assuredly going to have the passage end on a 'hanging' or in other words it is going to have an ending that sounds unresolved.



                                Now, this does not mean an unresolved ending is bad. Most TV shows that end on some sort of cliffhangers use an unresolved ending to great effect. So it is not as if such an ending does not have its place, the question is just would you want this as a rule.



                                Most music, like most books want a beginning, a middle and an end. You want an introduction to some sort of melodic or harmonic device, you want a middle that takes the introduction and builds on it in some sort of creative way and then a meaningful end.



                                To be quite frank, the easiest way to have a meaningful ending to a piece is just simply having a V - I resolution.






                                share|improve this answer















                                The tonic note is singular in its ability to indicate finality. No other note in the scale can end passages as effectively. Yes you can end on a V - vi progression or a IV - V, but unless the passage has a leading tone resolving to a tonic you are most assuredly going to have the passage end on a 'hanging' or in other words it is going to have an ending that sounds unresolved.



                                Now, this does not mean an unresolved ending is bad. Most TV shows that end on some sort of cliffhangers use an unresolved ending to great effect. So it is not as if such an ending does not have its place, the question is just would you want this as a rule.



                                Most music, like most books want a beginning, a middle and an end. You want an introduction to some sort of melodic or harmonic device, you want a middle that takes the introduction and builds on it in some sort of creative way and then a meaningful end.



                                To be quite frank, the easiest way to have a meaningful ending to a piece is just simply having a V - I resolution.







                                share|improve this answer














                                share|improve this answer



                                share|improve this answer








                                edited Jul 29 at 17:53









                                Tim

                                111k11 gold badges109 silver badges281 bronze badges




                                111k11 gold badges109 silver badges281 bronze badges










                                answered Jul 29 at 15:06









                                Neil MeyerNeil Meyer

                                10.4k3 gold badges28 silver badges63 bronze badges




                                10.4k3 gold badges28 silver badges63 bronze badges
























                                    0














                                    There is a history behind the modes that you listed. But in terms of theory, the modes you listed are based on their relationship to the C major tonality (which is based on playing all the white keys. A seven note diatonic scale.
                                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatonic_scale)



                                    The pattern used for the seven notes of the scale denote (no pun intented) the mode (tonality) that you are in. Starting and stopping on the Am scale is only necessary if you want to give the feeling of resolve based on what is called a cadence. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadence).



                                    A good example of not ending on the tonic of a scale are those scary movie soundtracks where you feel uncomfortable because the music doesn't seem to give you a feeling of rest.






                                    share|improve this answer





























                                      0














                                      There is a history behind the modes that you listed. But in terms of theory, the modes you listed are based on their relationship to the C major tonality (which is based on playing all the white keys. A seven note diatonic scale.
                                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatonic_scale)



                                      The pattern used for the seven notes of the scale denote (no pun intented) the mode (tonality) that you are in. Starting and stopping on the Am scale is only necessary if you want to give the feeling of resolve based on what is called a cadence. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadence).



                                      A good example of not ending on the tonic of a scale are those scary movie soundtracks where you feel uncomfortable because the music doesn't seem to give you a feeling of rest.






                                      share|improve this answer



























                                        0












                                        0








                                        0







                                        There is a history behind the modes that you listed. But in terms of theory, the modes you listed are based on their relationship to the C major tonality (which is based on playing all the white keys. A seven note diatonic scale.
                                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatonic_scale)



                                        The pattern used for the seven notes of the scale denote (no pun intented) the mode (tonality) that you are in. Starting and stopping on the Am scale is only necessary if you want to give the feeling of resolve based on what is called a cadence. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadence).



                                        A good example of not ending on the tonic of a scale are those scary movie soundtracks where you feel uncomfortable because the music doesn't seem to give you a feeling of rest.






                                        share|improve this answer













                                        There is a history behind the modes that you listed. But in terms of theory, the modes you listed are based on their relationship to the C major tonality (which is based on playing all the white keys. A seven note diatonic scale.
                                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatonic_scale)



                                        The pattern used for the seven notes of the scale denote (no pun intented) the mode (tonality) that you are in. Starting and stopping on the Am scale is only necessary if you want to give the feeling of resolve based on what is called a cadence. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadence).



                                        A good example of not ending on the tonic of a scale are those scary movie soundtracks where you feel uncomfortable because the music doesn't seem to give you a feeling of rest.







                                        share|improve this answer












                                        share|improve this answer



                                        share|improve this answer










                                        answered Jul 29 at 17:18









                                        NormanNorman

                                        1




                                        1
























                                            0















                                            Is it a must for a song using the A minor scale to begin or end with an Am chord?




                                            I think your question can be generalize to: must a song begin or end with a tonic chord?



                                            A lot of music starts and ends with the tonic chord. Sometimes the beginning is not the tonic, but the ending is.



                                            But some music is flexible regarding what scale is being used and what chords start and end the piece. Below is an example I played recently. It may not be the style of music you have in mind, but it illustrates the point about scales and chords.



                                            Binchois, De Plus en Plus se Renouvelle








                                            The music is from the late Medieval and works with something called musica ficta which isn't the same as the major/minor system. for simplicity I'll refer to major and minor.



                                            It starts on a G major chord then moves through E minor to a C major chord. Scale-wise I think it sounds like C major. Then is clearly moves to a G chord and uses a F# in the scale which moves the scale into G major.



                                            enter image description here



                                            The ending is on a D minor chord. Scale wise a C# is used and both B flat and B natural are used which puts it in D minor.



                                            enter image description here



                                            So, we can see in this example that a song doesn't have to start and end on the same chord or scale.



                                            A copy of the score is at IMSLP.




                                            ...how can I tell what the scale is?




                                            That's a separate and more complicated question that depends a lot on harmonic style. But, in the case of proper major/minor scales - and in the case of musica ficta - you can look for the leading tone. The leading tone is a half step below the tonic. So, while C major and A minor have the same key signature of no sharps/flats, A minor will use a G# for the leading tone.






                                            share|improve this answer





























                                              0















                                              Is it a must for a song using the A minor scale to begin or end with an Am chord?




                                              I think your question can be generalize to: must a song begin or end with a tonic chord?



                                              A lot of music starts and ends with the tonic chord. Sometimes the beginning is not the tonic, but the ending is.



                                              But some music is flexible regarding what scale is being used and what chords start and end the piece. Below is an example I played recently. It may not be the style of music you have in mind, but it illustrates the point about scales and chords.



                                              Binchois, De Plus en Plus se Renouvelle








                                              The music is from the late Medieval and works with something called musica ficta which isn't the same as the major/minor system. for simplicity I'll refer to major and minor.



                                              It starts on a G major chord then moves through E minor to a C major chord. Scale-wise I think it sounds like C major. Then is clearly moves to a G chord and uses a F# in the scale which moves the scale into G major.



                                              enter image description here



                                              The ending is on a D minor chord. Scale wise a C# is used and both B flat and B natural are used which puts it in D minor.



                                              enter image description here



                                              So, we can see in this example that a song doesn't have to start and end on the same chord or scale.



                                              A copy of the score is at IMSLP.




                                              ...how can I tell what the scale is?




                                              That's a separate and more complicated question that depends a lot on harmonic style. But, in the case of proper major/minor scales - and in the case of musica ficta - you can look for the leading tone. The leading tone is a half step below the tonic. So, while C major and A minor have the same key signature of no sharps/flats, A minor will use a G# for the leading tone.






                                              share|improve this answer



























                                                0












                                                0








                                                0








                                                Is it a must for a song using the A minor scale to begin or end with an Am chord?




                                                I think your question can be generalize to: must a song begin or end with a tonic chord?



                                                A lot of music starts and ends with the tonic chord. Sometimes the beginning is not the tonic, but the ending is.



                                                But some music is flexible regarding what scale is being used and what chords start and end the piece. Below is an example I played recently. It may not be the style of music you have in mind, but it illustrates the point about scales and chords.



                                                Binchois, De Plus en Plus se Renouvelle








                                                The music is from the late Medieval and works with something called musica ficta which isn't the same as the major/minor system. for simplicity I'll refer to major and minor.



                                                It starts on a G major chord then moves through E minor to a C major chord. Scale-wise I think it sounds like C major. Then is clearly moves to a G chord and uses a F# in the scale which moves the scale into G major.



                                                enter image description here



                                                The ending is on a D minor chord. Scale wise a C# is used and both B flat and B natural are used which puts it in D minor.



                                                enter image description here



                                                So, we can see in this example that a song doesn't have to start and end on the same chord or scale.



                                                A copy of the score is at IMSLP.




                                                ...how can I tell what the scale is?




                                                That's a separate and more complicated question that depends a lot on harmonic style. But, in the case of proper major/minor scales - and in the case of musica ficta - you can look for the leading tone. The leading tone is a half step below the tonic. So, while C major and A minor have the same key signature of no sharps/flats, A minor will use a G# for the leading tone.






                                                share|improve this answer














                                                Is it a must for a song using the A minor scale to begin or end with an Am chord?




                                                I think your question can be generalize to: must a song begin or end with a tonic chord?



                                                A lot of music starts and ends with the tonic chord. Sometimes the beginning is not the tonic, but the ending is.



                                                But some music is flexible regarding what scale is being used and what chords start and end the piece. Below is an example I played recently. It may not be the style of music you have in mind, but it illustrates the point about scales and chords.



                                                Binchois, De Plus en Plus se Renouvelle








                                                The music is from the late Medieval and works with something called musica ficta which isn't the same as the major/minor system. for simplicity I'll refer to major and minor.



                                                It starts on a G major chord then moves through E minor to a C major chord. Scale-wise I think it sounds like C major. Then is clearly moves to a G chord and uses a F# in the scale which moves the scale into G major.



                                                enter image description here



                                                The ending is on a D minor chord. Scale wise a C# is used and both B flat and B natural are used which puts it in D minor.



                                                enter image description here



                                                So, we can see in this example that a song doesn't have to start and end on the same chord or scale.



                                                A copy of the score is at IMSLP.




                                                ...how can I tell what the scale is?




                                                That's a separate and more complicated question that depends a lot on harmonic style. But, in the case of proper major/minor scales - and in the case of musica ficta - you can look for the leading tone. The leading tone is a half step below the tonic. So, while C major and A minor have the same key signature of no sharps/flats, A minor will use a G# for the leading tone.















                                                share|improve this answer












                                                share|improve this answer



                                                share|improve this answer










                                                answered Aug 1 at 15:24









                                                Michael CurtisMichael Curtis

                                                17.3k12 silver badges58 bronze badges




                                                17.3k12 silver badges58 bronze badges






























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