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Can I choose the value for X for spells cast with Bolas's Citadel?



Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30 pm US/Eastern)
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?What is the converted mana cost of a spell with X when cast with the Miracle mechanic?Can extort be triggered for countered spells?Does Thrumming Stone ripple after rippleChandra, Pyromaster's ability and spells with x casting costIf I exile Rout with Narset's ability, when can it be cast?Does Brain in a Jar let you cast a Sorcery at Instant speed?What happens if multiple people can cast the same card?Can I cast both parts of Commit//Memory from the graveyard with Torrential Gearhulk?Can a Djinn Illuminatus make me draw my whole deck with Ancestral Visions?What cards can I cast from exile with Dream Pillager?










6















There is a new card called Bolas's Citadel which says:




You may play the top card of your library. If you cast a spell this way, pay life equal to its converted mana cost rather than pay its mana cost.




Can use my life to pay for any X spell?










share|improve this question



















  • 1





    Huh. I'm actually not sure. The relevant rule is 107.3b "If a player is casting a spell that has an X in its mana cost, the value of X isn’t defined by the text of that spell, and an effect lets that player cast that spell while paying neither its mana cost nor an alternative cost that includes X, then the only legal choice for X is 0." The question is, does "Pay life equal to its converted mana cost" count as an "alternative cost that includes X"? I could see it ruled either way, and I couldn't find any other cards that worked similarly.

    – Arcanist Lupus
    2 days ago















6















There is a new card called Bolas's Citadel which says:




You may play the top card of your library. If you cast a spell this way, pay life equal to its converted mana cost rather than pay its mana cost.




Can use my life to pay for any X spell?










share|improve this question



















  • 1





    Huh. I'm actually not sure. The relevant rule is 107.3b "If a player is casting a spell that has an X in its mana cost, the value of X isn’t defined by the text of that spell, and an effect lets that player cast that spell while paying neither its mana cost nor an alternative cost that includes X, then the only legal choice for X is 0." The question is, does "Pay life equal to its converted mana cost" count as an "alternative cost that includes X"? I could see it ruled either way, and I couldn't find any other cards that worked similarly.

    – Arcanist Lupus
    2 days ago













6












6








6








There is a new card called Bolas's Citadel which says:




You may play the top card of your library. If you cast a spell this way, pay life equal to its converted mana cost rather than pay its mana cost.




Can use my life to pay for any X spell?










share|improve this question
















There is a new card called Bolas's Citadel which says:




You may play the top card of your library. If you cast a spell this way, pay life equal to its converted mana cost rather than pay its mana cost.




Can use my life to pay for any X spell?







magic-the-gathering






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 2 days ago









TheThirdMan

6,64811243




6,64811243










asked 2 days ago









Shara SharaShara Shara

947




947







  • 1





    Huh. I'm actually not sure. The relevant rule is 107.3b "If a player is casting a spell that has an X in its mana cost, the value of X isn’t defined by the text of that spell, and an effect lets that player cast that spell while paying neither its mana cost nor an alternative cost that includes X, then the only legal choice for X is 0." The question is, does "Pay life equal to its converted mana cost" count as an "alternative cost that includes X"? I could see it ruled either way, and I couldn't find any other cards that worked similarly.

    – Arcanist Lupus
    2 days ago












  • 1





    Huh. I'm actually not sure. The relevant rule is 107.3b "If a player is casting a spell that has an X in its mana cost, the value of X isn’t defined by the text of that spell, and an effect lets that player cast that spell while paying neither its mana cost nor an alternative cost that includes X, then the only legal choice for X is 0." The question is, does "Pay life equal to its converted mana cost" count as an "alternative cost that includes X"? I could see it ruled either way, and I couldn't find any other cards that worked similarly.

    – Arcanist Lupus
    2 days ago







1




1





Huh. I'm actually not sure. The relevant rule is 107.3b "If a player is casting a spell that has an X in its mana cost, the value of X isn’t defined by the text of that spell, and an effect lets that player cast that spell while paying neither its mana cost nor an alternative cost that includes X, then the only legal choice for X is 0." The question is, does "Pay life equal to its converted mana cost" count as an "alternative cost that includes X"? I could see it ruled either way, and I couldn't find any other cards that worked similarly.

– Arcanist Lupus
2 days ago





Huh. I'm actually not sure. The relevant rule is 107.3b "If a player is casting a spell that has an X in its mana cost, the value of X isn’t defined by the text of that spell, and an effect lets that player cast that spell while paying neither its mana cost nor an alternative cost that includes X, then the only legal choice for X is 0." The question is, does "Pay life equal to its converted mana cost" count as an "alternative cost that includes X"? I could see it ruled either way, and I couldn't find any other cards that worked similarly.

– Arcanist Lupus
2 days ago










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















7














No, you cannot choose any value for X other than 0 when casting cards using Bolas's Citadel.



The phrase "rather than pay its mana cost" or "rather than pay [card name]'s mana cost" is a standard phrase in Magic indicating that the cost specified is an alternative cost. This is stated explicitly in rule 117.9:




Some spells have alternative costs. An alternative cost is a cost listed in a spell's text, or applied to it from another effect, that its controller may pay rather than paying the spell's mana cost. Alternative costs are usually phrased, "You may [action] rather than pay [this object's] mana cost," or "You may cast [this object] without paying its mana cost." Note that some alternative costs are listed in keywords; see rule 702.




So if you cast spells using Bolas's Citadel's second ability, you are required to pay an alternative cost of life equal to the spell's converted mana cost. Then rule 107.3b applies:




If a player is casting a spell that has an X in its mana cost, the value of X isn't defined by the text of that spell, and an effect lets that player cast that spell while paying neither its mana cost nor an alternative cost that includes X, then the only legal choice for X is 0. This doesn't apply to effects that only reduce a cost, even if they reduce it to zero. See rule 601, "Casting Spells."




So, you are required to choose 0 for X when casting spells with X in the mana cost.






share|improve this answer


















  • 2





    You may like to cite rulings on existing cards until we have the WAR rulings article, e.g. the Expertise cycle all include the ruling "If the card has X in its mana cost, you must choose 0 as the value of X when casting it without paying its mana cost."

    – doppelgreener
    2 days ago






  • 3





    The rules here seem to contain all of the relevant information. I don't see what an existing ruling would add.

    – murgatroid99
    2 days ago






  • 1





    Ok, no problem. 👍 I think once the WAR rulings arrive it will at least state it plainly and unquestionably that yes those rules apply like this to this card, but another card's rulings aren't relevant like that.

    – doppelgreener
    2 days ago












  • "...nor an alternative cost that includes X" seems relevant here. Wouldn't the life paid include x and therefore satisfy the condition to allow x to be non-0?

    – km6zla
    11 hours ago











  • I believe that phrase is very literal. The cost specified on Bolas's Citadel does not contain the word "X", so it doesn't satisfy that condition. For an example that goes the other way, Bonfire of the Damned has a Miracle alternative cost that explicitly includes X.

    – murgatroid99
    10 hours ago











Your Answer








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1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









7














No, you cannot choose any value for X other than 0 when casting cards using Bolas's Citadel.



The phrase "rather than pay its mana cost" or "rather than pay [card name]'s mana cost" is a standard phrase in Magic indicating that the cost specified is an alternative cost. This is stated explicitly in rule 117.9:




Some spells have alternative costs. An alternative cost is a cost listed in a spell's text, or applied to it from another effect, that its controller may pay rather than paying the spell's mana cost. Alternative costs are usually phrased, "You may [action] rather than pay [this object's] mana cost," or "You may cast [this object] without paying its mana cost." Note that some alternative costs are listed in keywords; see rule 702.




So if you cast spells using Bolas's Citadel's second ability, you are required to pay an alternative cost of life equal to the spell's converted mana cost. Then rule 107.3b applies:




If a player is casting a spell that has an X in its mana cost, the value of X isn't defined by the text of that spell, and an effect lets that player cast that spell while paying neither its mana cost nor an alternative cost that includes X, then the only legal choice for X is 0. This doesn't apply to effects that only reduce a cost, even if they reduce it to zero. See rule 601, "Casting Spells."




So, you are required to choose 0 for X when casting spells with X in the mana cost.






share|improve this answer


















  • 2





    You may like to cite rulings on existing cards until we have the WAR rulings article, e.g. the Expertise cycle all include the ruling "If the card has X in its mana cost, you must choose 0 as the value of X when casting it without paying its mana cost."

    – doppelgreener
    2 days ago






  • 3





    The rules here seem to contain all of the relevant information. I don't see what an existing ruling would add.

    – murgatroid99
    2 days ago






  • 1





    Ok, no problem. 👍 I think once the WAR rulings arrive it will at least state it plainly and unquestionably that yes those rules apply like this to this card, but another card's rulings aren't relevant like that.

    – doppelgreener
    2 days ago












  • "...nor an alternative cost that includes X" seems relevant here. Wouldn't the life paid include x and therefore satisfy the condition to allow x to be non-0?

    – km6zla
    11 hours ago











  • I believe that phrase is very literal. The cost specified on Bolas's Citadel does not contain the word "X", so it doesn't satisfy that condition. For an example that goes the other way, Bonfire of the Damned has a Miracle alternative cost that explicitly includes X.

    – murgatroid99
    10 hours ago















7














No, you cannot choose any value for X other than 0 when casting cards using Bolas's Citadel.



The phrase "rather than pay its mana cost" or "rather than pay [card name]'s mana cost" is a standard phrase in Magic indicating that the cost specified is an alternative cost. This is stated explicitly in rule 117.9:




Some spells have alternative costs. An alternative cost is a cost listed in a spell's text, or applied to it from another effect, that its controller may pay rather than paying the spell's mana cost. Alternative costs are usually phrased, "You may [action] rather than pay [this object's] mana cost," or "You may cast [this object] without paying its mana cost." Note that some alternative costs are listed in keywords; see rule 702.




So if you cast spells using Bolas's Citadel's second ability, you are required to pay an alternative cost of life equal to the spell's converted mana cost. Then rule 107.3b applies:




If a player is casting a spell that has an X in its mana cost, the value of X isn't defined by the text of that spell, and an effect lets that player cast that spell while paying neither its mana cost nor an alternative cost that includes X, then the only legal choice for X is 0. This doesn't apply to effects that only reduce a cost, even if they reduce it to zero. See rule 601, "Casting Spells."




So, you are required to choose 0 for X when casting spells with X in the mana cost.






share|improve this answer


















  • 2





    You may like to cite rulings on existing cards until we have the WAR rulings article, e.g. the Expertise cycle all include the ruling "If the card has X in its mana cost, you must choose 0 as the value of X when casting it without paying its mana cost."

    – doppelgreener
    2 days ago






  • 3





    The rules here seem to contain all of the relevant information. I don't see what an existing ruling would add.

    – murgatroid99
    2 days ago






  • 1





    Ok, no problem. 👍 I think once the WAR rulings arrive it will at least state it plainly and unquestionably that yes those rules apply like this to this card, but another card's rulings aren't relevant like that.

    – doppelgreener
    2 days ago












  • "...nor an alternative cost that includes X" seems relevant here. Wouldn't the life paid include x and therefore satisfy the condition to allow x to be non-0?

    – km6zla
    11 hours ago











  • I believe that phrase is very literal. The cost specified on Bolas's Citadel does not contain the word "X", so it doesn't satisfy that condition. For an example that goes the other way, Bonfire of the Damned has a Miracle alternative cost that explicitly includes X.

    – murgatroid99
    10 hours ago













7












7








7







No, you cannot choose any value for X other than 0 when casting cards using Bolas's Citadel.



The phrase "rather than pay its mana cost" or "rather than pay [card name]'s mana cost" is a standard phrase in Magic indicating that the cost specified is an alternative cost. This is stated explicitly in rule 117.9:




Some spells have alternative costs. An alternative cost is a cost listed in a spell's text, or applied to it from another effect, that its controller may pay rather than paying the spell's mana cost. Alternative costs are usually phrased, "You may [action] rather than pay [this object's] mana cost," or "You may cast [this object] without paying its mana cost." Note that some alternative costs are listed in keywords; see rule 702.




So if you cast spells using Bolas's Citadel's second ability, you are required to pay an alternative cost of life equal to the spell's converted mana cost. Then rule 107.3b applies:




If a player is casting a spell that has an X in its mana cost, the value of X isn't defined by the text of that spell, and an effect lets that player cast that spell while paying neither its mana cost nor an alternative cost that includes X, then the only legal choice for X is 0. This doesn't apply to effects that only reduce a cost, even if they reduce it to zero. See rule 601, "Casting Spells."




So, you are required to choose 0 for X when casting spells with X in the mana cost.






share|improve this answer













No, you cannot choose any value for X other than 0 when casting cards using Bolas's Citadel.



The phrase "rather than pay its mana cost" or "rather than pay [card name]'s mana cost" is a standard phrase in Magic indicating that the cost specified is an alternative cost. This is stated explicitly in rule 117.9:




Some spells have alternative costs. An alternative cost is a cost listed in a spell's text, or applied to it from another effect, that its controller may pay rather than paying the spell's mana cost. Alternative costs are usually phrased, "You may [action] rather than pay [this object's] mana cost," or "You may cast [this object] without paying its mana cost." Note that some alternative costs are listed in keywords; see rule 702.




So if you cast spells using Bolas's Citadel's second ability, you are required to pay an alternative cost of life equal to the spell's converted mana cost. Then rule 107.3b applies:




If a player is casting a spell that has an X in its mana cost, the value of X isn't defined by the text of that spell, and an effect lets that player cast that spell while paying neither its mana cost nor an alternative cost that includes X, then the only legal choice for X is 0. This doesn't apply to effects that only reduce a cost, even if they reduce it to zero. See rule 601, "Casting Spells."




So, you are required to choose 0 for X when casting spells with X in the mana cost.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 2 days ago









murgatroid99murgatroid99

48.5k7122205




48.5k7122205







  • 2





    You may like to cite rulings on existing cards until we have the WAR rulings article, e.g. the Expertise cycle all include the ruling "If the card has X in its mana cost, you must choose 0 as the value of X when casting it without paying its mana cost."

    – doppelgreener
    2 days ago






  • 3





    The rules here seem to contain all of the relevant information. I don't see what an existing ruling would add.

    – murgatroid99
    2 days ago






  • 1





    Ok, no problem. 👍 I think once the WAR rulings arrive it will at least state it plainly and unquestionably that yes those rules apply like this to this card, but another card's rulings aren't relevant like that.

    – doppelgreener
    2 days ago












  • "...nor an alternative cost that includes X" seems relevant here. Wouldn't the life paid include x and therefore satisfy the condition to allow x to be non-0?

    – km6zla
    11 hours ago











  • I believe that phrase is very literal. The cost specified on Bolas's Citadel does not contain the word "X", so it doesn't satisfy that condition. For an example that goes the other way, Bonfire of the Damned has a Miracle alternative cost that explicitly includes X.

    – murgatroid99
    10 hours ago












  • 2





    You may like to cite rulings on existing cards until we have the WAR rulings article, e.g. the Expertise cycle all include the ruling "If the card has X in its mana cost, you must choose 0 as the value of X when casting it without paying its mana cost."

    – doppelgreener
    2 days ago






  • 3





    The rules here seem to contain all of the relevant information. I don't see what an existing ruling would add.

    – murgatroid99
    2 days ago






  • 1





    Ok, no problem. 👍 I think once the WAR rulings arrive it will at least state it plainly and unquestionably that yes those rules apply like this to this card, but another card's rulings aren't relevant like that.

    – doppelgreener
    2 days ago












  • "...nor an alternative cost that includes X" seems relevant here. Wouldn't the life paid include x and therefore satisfy the condition to allow x to be non-0?

    – km6zla
    11 hours ago











  • I believe that phrase is very literal. The cost specified on Bolas's Citadel does not contain the word "X", so it doesn't satisfy that condition. For an example that goes the other way, Bonfire of the Damned has a Miracle alternative cost that explicitly includes X.

    – murgatroid99
    10 hours ago







2




2





You may like to cite rulings on existing cards until we have the WAR rulings article, e.g. the Expertise cycle all include the ruling "If the card has X in its mana cost, you must choose 0 as the value of X when casting it without paying its mana cost."

– doppelgreener
2 days ago





You may like to cite rulings on existing cards until we have the WAR rulings article, e.g. the Expertise cycle all include the ruling "If the card has X in its mana cost, you must choose 0 as the value of X when casting it without paying its mana cost."

– doppelgreener
2 days ago




3




3





The rules here seem to contain all of the relevant information. I don't see what an existing ruling would add.

– murgatroid99
2 days ago





The rules here seem to contain all of the relevant information. I don't see what an existing ruling would add.

– murgatroid99
2 days ago




1




1





Ok, no problem. 👍 I think once the WAR rulings arrive it will at least state it plainly and unquestionably that yes those rules apply like this to this card, but another card's rulings aren't relevant like that.

– doppelgreener
2 days ago






Ok, no problem. 👍 I think once the WAR rulings arrive it will at least state it plainly and unquestionably that yes those rules apply like this to this card, but another card's rulings aren't relevant like that.

– doppelgreener
2 days ago














"...nor an alternative cost that includes X" seems relevant here. Wouldn't the life paid include x and therefore satisfy the condition to allow x to be non-0?

– km6zla
11 hours ago





"...nor an alternative cost that includes X" seems relevant here. Wouldn't the life paid include x and therefore satisfy the condition to allow x to be non-0?

– km6zla
11 hours ago













I believe that phrase is very literal. The cost specified on Bolas's Citadel does not contain the word "X", so it doesn't satisfy that condition. For an example that goes the other way, Bonfire of the Damned has a Miracle alternative cost that explicitly includes X.

– murgatroid99
10 hours ago





I believe that phrase is very literal. The cost specified on Bolas's Citadel does not contain the word "X", so it doesn't satisfy that condition. For an example that goes the other way, Bonfire of the Damned has a Miracle alternative cost that explicitly includes X.

– murgatroid99
10 hours ago

















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