What is the difference between NTP and validity in Smith's “Logic: The Laws of Truth”?What were the historical interpretations of Aristotle's definition of validity/logical consequence?What is the logical form of the definition of validity?Invalid arguments with true premises and true conclusionAn argument is valid if the premises CANNOT all be true without the conclusion being true as wellThe validity of the definition of a valid argumentLogic and Reasoning questionWithout computers, how can you conjecture the (in)validity of a long convoluted argument in Predicate Logic?Why is this argument logically valid?Concerning the definition of “valid”What is the relationship between “truth” and logic?Modus Ponens as Substitute for Syllogism
Is it "common practice in Fourier transform spectroscopy to multiply the measured interferogram by an apodizing function"? If so, why?
Why was Sir Cadogan fired?
What exactly is ineptocracy?
Are British MPs missing the point, with these 'Indicative Votes'?
What is an equivalently powerful replacement spell for the Yuan-Ti's Suggestion spell?
Processor speed limited at 0.4 Ghz
Finding the reason behind the value of the integral.
What do you call someone who asks many questions?
How to enclose theorems and definition in rectangles?
Car headlights in a world without electricity
Unlock My Phone! February 2018
What is the fastest integer factorization to break RSA?
Calculate the Mean mean of two numbers
How can a day be of 24 hours?
Bullying boss launched a smear campaign and made me unemployable
files created then deleted at every second in tmp directory
Do creatures with a listed speed of "0 ft., fly 30 ft. (hover)" ever touch the ground?
What reasons are there for a Capitalist to oppose a 100% inheritance tax?
Is it a bad idea to plug the other end of ESD strap to wall ground?
Could neural networks be considered metaheuristics?
Why are UK visa biometrics appointments suspended at USCIS Application Support Centers?
How obscure is the use of 令 in 令和?
How to coordinate airplane tickets?
Was the Stack Exchange "Happy April Fools" page fitting with the '90's code?
What is the difference between NTP and validity in Smith's “Logic: The Laws of Truth”?
What were the historical interpretations of Aristotle's definition of validity/logical consequence?What is the logical form of the definition of validity?Invalid arguments with true premises and true conclusionAn argument is valid if the premises CANNOT all be true without the conclusion being true as wellThe validity of the definition of a valid argumentLogic and Reasoning questionWithout computers, how can you conjecture the (in)validity of a long convoluted argument in Predicate Logic?Why is this argument logically valid?Concerning the definition of “valid”What is the relationship between “truth” and logic?Modus Ponens as Substitute for Syllogism
The book I got this question from is "logic, the laws of truth" by Nicholas j.j
smith.
"Necessary truth preserving" (NTP in the book) is defined as the property that an argument has when it is impossible for the premises to be true and the conclusion false.
Now an argument is valid if and only if
- The premises cannot be true while the conclusion false (it is NTP).
- The form or structure of the argument guarantees that it is NTP.
the 2nd criterion for judging ( whether and argument is valid or not) does not make sense to me.
and the answers of the exercises ( on determining validity), imply that an argument being NTP is enough for being valid and I don't really see 2nd criterion for judging ( whether and argument is valid or not) being needed to get the correct answers.
the exercise:
1)All dogs are mammals.
All mammals are animals.
All dogs are animals.
2)All dogs are mammals
All dogs are animals.
All mammals are animals.
the first one is valid and second one isn't, but we can find the answers without knowing what validity is/ equating validity with NTP.
I hope I'm clear enough, I just read this from the book, so i couldn't articulate my thoughts very clearly.
logic
New contributor
add a comment |
The book I got this question from is "logic, the laws of truth" by Nicholas j.j
smith.
"Necessary truth preserving" (NTP in the book) is defined as the property that an argument has when it is impossible for the premises to be true and the conclusion false.
Now an argument is valid if and only if
- The premises cannot be true while the conclusion false (it is NTP).
- The form or structure of the argument guarantees that it is NTP.
the 2nd criterion for judging ( whether and argument is valid or not) does not make sense to me.
and the answers of the exercises ( on determining validity), imply that an argument being NTP is enough for being valid and I don't really see 2nd criterion for judging ( whether and argument is valid or not) being needed to get the correct answers.
the exercise:
1)All dogs are mammals.
All mammals are animals.
All dogs are animals.
2)All dogs are mammals
All dogs are animals.
All mammals are animals.
the first one is valid and second one isn't, but we can find the answers without knowing what validity is/ equating validity with NTP.
I hope I'm clear enough, I just read this from the book, so i couldn't articulate my thoughts very clearly.
logic
New contributor
The subtlety is in the nature of "necessity". It may be impossible for something to be red all over when it is green all over, but this necessity does not result from the form of the argument. On the other hand, it is impossible for something to be red and round without being red in particular, just in virtue of logical form. See three main conceptions of validity.
– Conifold
5 hours ago
add a comment |
The book I got this question from is "logic, the laws of truth" by Nicholas j.j
smith.
"Necessary truth preserving" (NTP in the book) is defined as the property that an argument has when it is impossible for the premises to be true and the conclusion false.
Now an argument is valid if and only if
- The premises cannot be true while the conclusion false (it is NTP).
- The form or structure of the argument guarantees that it is NTP.
the 2nd criterion for judging ( whether and argument is valid or not) does not make sense to me.
and the answers of the exercises ( on determining validity), imply that an argument being NTP is enough for being valid and I don't really see 2nd criterion for judging ( whether and argument is valid or not) being needed to get the correct answers.
the exercise:
1)All dogs are mammals.
All mammals are animals.
All dogs are animals.
2)All dogs are mammals
All dogs are animals.
All mammals are animals.
the first one is valid and second one isn't, but we can find the answers without knowing what validity is/ equating validity with NTP.
I hope I'm clear enough, I just read this from the book, so i couldn't articulate my thoughts very clearly.
logic
New contributor
The book I got this question from is "logic, the laws of truth" by Nicholas j.j
smith.
"Necessary truth preserving" (NTP in the book) is defined as the property that an argument has when it is impossible for the premises to be true and the conclusion false.
Now an argument is valid if and only if
- The premises cannot be true while the conclusion false (it is NTP).
- The form or structure of the argument guarantees that it is NTP.
the 2nd criterion for judging ( whether and argument is valid or not) does not make sense to me.
and the answers of the exercises ( on determining validity), imply that an argument being NTP is enough for being valid and I don't really see 2nd criterion for judging ( whether and argument is valid or not) being needed to get the correct answers.
the exercise:
1)All dogs are mammals.
All mammals are animals.
All dogs are animals.
2)All dogs are mammals
All dogs are animals.
All mammals are animals.
the first one is valid and second one isn't, but we can find the answers without knowing what validity is/ equating validity with NTP.
I hope I'm clear enough, I just read this from the book, so i couldn't articulate my thoughts very clearly.
logic
logic
New contributor
New contributor
edited 17 hours ago
virmaior
25.2k33996
25.2k33996
New contributor
asked 19 hours ago
MinigameZ moreMinigameZ more
261
261
New contributor
New contributor
The subtlety is in the nature of "necessity". It may be impossible for something to be red all over when it is green all over, but this necessity does not result from the form of the argument. On the other hand, it is impossible for something to be red and round without being red in particular, just in virtue of logical form. See three main conceptions of validity.
– Conifold
5 hours ago
add a comment |
The subtlety is in the nature of "necessity". It may be impossible for something to be red all over when it is green all over, but this necessity does not result from the form of the argument. On the other hand, it is impossible for something to be red and round without being red in particular, just in virtue of logical form. See three main conceptions of validity.
– Conifold
5 hours ago
The subtlety is in the nature of "necessity". It may be impossible for something to be red all over when it is green all over, but this necessity does not result from the form of the argument. On the other hand, it is impossible for something to be red and round without being red in particular, just in virtue of logical form. See three main conceptions of validity.
– Conifold
5 hours ago
The subtlety is in the nature of "necessity". It may be impossible for something to be red all over when it is green all over, but this necessity does not result from the form of the argument. On the other hand, it is impossible for something to be red and round without being red in particular, just in virtue of logical form. See three main conceptions of validity.
– Conifold
5 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
The author gives an example (page 15) of an argument that is NTP but not valid:
The glass on the table contains water.
∴ The glass on the table contains H2O.
He then says (page 17):
In the case of (7), to see that the premise cannot be true while the conclusion
is false, we need specific scientific knowledge: we need to know that the chemical composition of water is H2O.
So, the argument is NTP: there is no way for the premise to be true and the conclusion false because water is necessarily H2O. But the argument is not NTP in virtue of its form. The form of the argument is just: 'A contains X. Therefore, A contains Y', which is not valid.
He says on the same page:
So, some arguments that are NTP are so by virtue of their form or structure [...] Other arguments that are NTP are not so by virtue of their form or structure: the way in which the argument is constructed does not guarantee that there is no way for the premises to be true and the conclusion false. Rather, the fact that there is no such way is underwritten by specific facts either about the meanings of the particular terms in the argument [...] or about the particular things in the world that these terms pick out (e.g., water—its chemical composition is H2O), or both.
Other examples can be constructed using mathematical statements. For instance: 1 + 1 = 3; therefore, 2 + 2 = 4. There is no possibility in which the premise is true and the conclusion false because the premise is never true. So, the argument is NTP. Nevertheless, this is not because of the form of the argument, but only because of the nature of mathematical statements. So, the argument is not valid in the sense defined here.
add a comment |
I've just tried skimming over the book and I can see how it's confusing.
In many accounts being truth-preserving means that if the premises are true, then the conclusion must be true.
On such accounts, it is often a synonym for validity -- because validity means that if the premises are true, then the conclusion must be true.
Smith is trying to be more precise and spends quite a few pages working on a distinction between his NTP and validity. I think the easiest way to get it is this: NTP includes ways of being truth preserving that are non-formal.
By formal, I mean things that follow based on rules ( a AND b is TRUE when a is TRUE and b is TRUE and never otherwise).
But there are other things that are truth preserving:
Clark Kent is in Boston. Therefore, Superman is in Boston.
This is also 'truth-preserving' since we know Clark Kent = Superman, but it's not formally valid because we have not supplied this within any formal rule by adding a biconditional or something to that effect.
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "265"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
MinigameZ more is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fphilosophy.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f61555%2fwhat-is-the-difference-between-ntp-and-validity-in-smiths-logic-the-laws-of-t%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
The author gives an example (page 15) of an argument that is NTP but not valid:
The glass on the table contains water.
∴ The glass on the table contains H2O.
He then says (page 17):
In the case of (7), to see that the premise cannot be true while the conclusion
is false, we need specific scientific knowledge: we need to know that the chemical composition of water is H2O.
So, the argument is NTP: there is no way for the premise to be true and the conclusion false because water is necessarily H2O. But the argument is not NTP in virtue of its form. The form of the argument is just: 'A contains X. Therefore, A contains Y', which is not valid.
He says on the same page:
So, some arguments that are NTP are so by virtue of their form or structure [...] Other arguments that are NTP are not so by virtue of their form or structure: the way in which the argument is constructed does not guarantee that there is no way for the premises to be true and the conclusion false. Rather, the fact that there is no such way is underwritten by specific facts either about the meanings of the particular terms in the argument [...] or about the particular things in the world that these terms pick out (e.g., water—its chemical composition is H2O), or both.
Other examples can be constructed using mathematical statements. For instance: 1 + 1 = 3; therefore, 2 + 2 = 4. There is no possibility in which the premise is true and the conclusion false because the premise is never true. So, the argument is NTP. Nevertheless, this is not because of the form of the argument, but only because of the nature of mathematical statements. So, the argument is not valid in the sense defined here.
add a comment |
The author gives an example (page 15) of an argument that is NTP but not valid:
The glass on the table contains water.
∴ The glass on the table contains H2O.
He then says (page 17):
In the case of (7), to see that the premise cannot be true while the conclusion
is false, we need specific scientific knowledge: we need to know that the chemical composition of water is H2O.
So, the argument is NTP: there is no way for the premise to be true and the conclusion false because water is necessarily H2O. But the argument is not NTP in virtue of its form. The form of the argument is just: 'A contains X. Therefore, A contains Y', which is not valid.
He says on the same page:
So, some arguments that are NTP are so by virtue of their form or structure [...] Other arguments that are NTP are not so by virtue of their form or structure: the way in which the argument is constructed does not guarantee that there is no way for the premises to be true and the conclusion false. Rather, the fact that there is no such way is underwritten by specific facts either about the meanings of the particular terms in the argument [...] or about the particular things in the world that these terms pick out (e.g., water—its chemical composition is H2O), or both.
Other examples can be constructed using mathematical statements. For instance: 1 + 1 = 3; therefore, 2 + 2 = 4. There is no possibility in which the premise is true and the conclusion false because the premise is never true. So, the argument is NTP. Nevertheless, this is not because of the form of the argument, but only because of the nature of mathematical statements. So, the argument is not valid in the sense defined here.
add a comment |
The author gives an example (page 15) of an argument that is NTP but not valid:
The glass on the table contains water.
∴ The glass on the table contains H2O.
He then says (page 17):
In the case of (7), to see that the premise cannot be true while the conclusion
is false, we need specific scientific knowledge: we need to know that the chemical composition of water is H2O.
So, the argument is NTP: there is no way for the premise to be true and the conclusion false because water is necessarily H2O. But the argument is not NTP in virtue of its form. The form of the argument is just: 'A contains X. Therefore, A contains Y', which is not valid.
He says on the same page:
So, some arguments that are NTP are so by virtue of their form or structure [...] Other arguments that are NTP are not so by virtue of their form or structure: the way in which the argument is constructed does not guarantee that there is no way for the premises to be true and the conclusion false. Rather, the fact that there is no such way is underwritten by specific facts either about the meanings of the particular terms in the argument [...] or about the particular things in the world that these terms pick out (e.g., water—its chemical composition is H2O), or both.
Other examples can be constructed using mathematical statements. For instance: 1 + 1 = 3; therefore, 2 + 2 = 4. There is no possibility in which the premise is true and the conclusion false because the premise is never true. So, the argument is NTP. Nevertheless, this is not because of the form of the argument, but only because of the nature of mathematical statements. So, the argument is not valid in the sense defined here.
The author gives an example (page 15) of an argument that is NTP but not valid:
The glass on the table contains water.
∴ The glass on the table contains H2O.
He then says (page 17):
In the case of (7), to see that the premise cannot be true while the conclusion
is false, we need specific scientific knowledge: we need to know that the chemical composition of water is H2O.
So, the argument is NTP: there is no way for the premise to be true and the conclusion false because water is necessarily H2O. But the argument is not NTP in virtue of its form. The form of the argument is just: 'A contains X. Therefore, A contains Y', which is not valid.
He says on the same page:
So, some arguments that are NTP are so by virtue of their form or structure [...] Other arguments that are NTP are not so by virtue of their form or structure: the way in which the argument is constructed does not guarantee that there is no way for the premises to be true and the conclusion false. Rather, the fact that there is no such way is underwritten by specific facts either about the meanings of the particular terms in the argument [...] or about the particular things in the world that these terms pick out (e.g., water—its chemical composition is H2O), or both.
Other examples can be constructed using mathematical statements. For instance: 1 + 1 = 3; therefore, 2 + 2 = 4. There is no possibility in which the premise is true and the conclusion false because the premise is never true. So, the argument is NTP. Nevertheless, this is not because of the form of the argument, but only because of the nature of mathematical statements. So, the argument is not valid in the sense defined here.
edited 19 hours ago
answered 19 hours ago
EliranEliran
4,87831433
4,87831433
add a comment |
add a comment |
I've just tried skimming over the book and I can see how it's confusing.
In many accounts being truth-preserving means that if the premises are true, then the conclusion must be true.
On such accounts, it is often a synonym for validity -- because validity means that if the premises are true, then the conclusion must be true.
Smith is trying to be more precise and spends quite a few pages working on a distinction between his NTP and validity. I think the easiest way to get it is this: NTP includes ways of being truth preserving that are non-formal.
By formal, I mean things that follow based on rules ( a AND b is TRUE when a is TRUE and b is TRUE and never otherwise).
But there are other things that are truth preserving:
Clark Kent is in Boston. Therefore, Superman is in Boston.
This is also 'truth-preserving' since we know Clark Kent = Superman, but it's not formally valid because we have not supplied this within any formal rule by adding a biconditional or something to that effect.
add a comment |
I've just tried skimming over the book and I can see how it's confusing.
In many accounts being truth-preserving means that if the premises are true, then the conclusion must be true.
On such accounts, it is often a synonym for validity -- because validity means that if the premises are true, then the conclusion must be true.
Smith is trying to be more precise and spends quite a few pages working on a distinction between his NTP and validity. I think the easiest way to get it is this: NTP includes ways of being truth preserving that are non-formal.
By formal, I mean things that follow based on rules ( a AND b is TRUE when a is TRUE and b is TRUE and never otherwise).
But there are other things that are truth preserving:
Clark Kent is in Boston. Therefore, Superman is in Boston.
This is also 'truth-preserving' since we know Clark Kent = Superman, but it's not formally valid because we have not supplied this within any formal rule by adding a biconditional or something to that effect.
add a comment |
I've just tried skimming over the book and I can see how it's confusing.
In many accounts being truth-preserving means that if the premises are true, then the conclusion must be true.
On such accounts, it is often a synonym for validity -- because validity means that if the premises are true, then the conclusion must be true.
Smith is trying to be more precise and spends quite a few pages working on a distinction between his NTP and validity. I think the easiest way to get it is this: NTP includes ways of being truth preserving that are non-formal.
By formal, I mean things that follow based on rules ( a AND b is TRUE when a is TRUE and b is TRUE and never otherwise).
But there are other things that are truth preserving:
Clark Kent is in Boston. Therefore, Superman is in Boston.
This is also 'truth-preserving' since we know Clark Kent = Superman, but it's not formally valid because we have not supplied this within any formal rule by adding a biconditional or something to that effect.
I've just tried skimming over the book and I can see how it's confusing.
In many accounts being truth-preserving means that if the premises are true, then the conclusion must be true.
On such accounts, it is often a synonym for validity -- because validity means that if the premises are true, then the conclusion must be true.
Smith is trying to be more precise and spends quite a few pages working on a distinction between his NTP and validity. I think the easiest way to get it is this: NTP includes ways of being truth preserving that are non-formal.
By formal, I mean things that follow based on rules ( a AND b is TRUE when a is TRUE and b is TRUE and never otherwise).
But there are other things that are truth preserving:
Clark Kent is in Boston. Therefore, Superman is in Boston.
This is also 'truth-preserving' since we know Clark Kent = Superman, but it's not formally valid because we have not supplied this within any formal rule by adding a biconditional or something to that effect.
answered 18 hours ago
virmaiorvirmaior
25.2k33996
25.2k33996
add a comment |
add a comment |
MinigameZ more is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
MinigameZ more is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
MinigameZ more is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
MinigameZ more is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Thanks for contributing an answer to Philosophy Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fphilosophy.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f61555%2fwhat-is-the-difference-between-ntp-and-validity-in-smiths-logic-the-laws-of-t%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
The subtlety is in the nature of "necessity". It may be impossible for something to be red all over when it is green all over, but this necessity does not result from the form of the argument. On the other hand, it is impossible for something to be red and round without being red in particular, just in virtue of logical form. See three main conceptions of validity.
– Conifold
5 hours ago