Can a creature tell when it has been affected by a Divination wizard's Portent?Does a creature that is immune to all outcomes (conditions, damage, etc.) of an effect still make a saving throw?Will my party function without a healer?There appears to be significant overlap between Divination and other schools. What truly defines a divination spell?How does nondetection interact with School of Divination's Portent?How can I minimize the risk of mind control with magic items?Can you use Lucky (feat) followed by Portent to replace a roll that's already been made?When can a Wild Magic sorcerer use Bend Luck if he can't see the die?How does a Divination Wizard's Portent work when they are not sure if/what roll the target may be making?For the Divination wizard's Portent feature, how do “glimpses of the future” manifest?Can a creature with a Mind Blank spell active on itself target itself with Encode Thoughts?Is a shield guardian affected by demonic madness in the Out of the Abyss adventure?
Multi-channel audio upsampling interpolation
What is the name of this hexagon/pentagon polyhedron?
Can there be a single technologically advanced nation, in a continent full of non-technologically advanced nations?
Why do people keep telling me that I am a bad photographer?
How do I make a function that generates nth natural number that isn't a perfect square?
How to model the curly cable part of the phone
Is latino sine flexione dead?
How can I close a gap between my fence and my neighbor's that's on his side of the property line?
Randomness of Python's random
Why was the battle set up *outside* Winterfell?
Why is Arya visibly scared in the library in S8E3?
Position of past participle and extent of the Verbklammer
Understanding trademark infringements in a world where many dictionary words are trademarks?
Expressing 'our' for objects belonging to our apartment
What does a spell range of "25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels" mean?
Did we get closer to another plane than we were supposed to, or was the pilot just protecting our delicate sensibilities?
Would Hubble Space Telescope improve black hole image observed by EHT if it joined array of telesopes?
Verb "geeitet" in an old scientific text
Can an isometry leave entropy invariant?
Using a microphone from the 1930s
Why isn't nylon as strong as kevlar?
Can hackers enable the camera after the user disabled it?
Using column size much larger than necessary
What happens if you dump antimatter into a black hole?
Can a creature tell when it has been affected by a Divination wizard's Portent?
Does a creature that is immune to all outcomes (conditions, damage, etc.) of an effect still make a saving throw?Will my party function without a healer?There appears to be significant overlap between Divination and other schools. What truly defines a divination spell?How does nondetection interact with School of Divination's Portent?How can I minimize the risk of mind control with magic items?Can you use Lucky (feat) followed by Portent to replace a roll that's already been made?When can a Wild Magic sorcerer use Bend Luck if he can't see the die?How does a Divination Wizard's Portent work when they are not sure if/what roll the target may be making?For the Divination wizard's Portent feature, how do “glimpses of the future” manifest?Can a creature with a Mind Blank spell active on itself target itself with Encode Thoughts?Is a shield guardian affected by demonic madness in the Out of the Abyss adventure?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
$begingroup$
Consider the following situation (from my perspective as the DM):
One of my PCs casts a spell on an NPC (or monster etc.) which forces the target to make, say, a Wisdom save, or else be frightened.
Before the NPC rolls for his save, the divination wizard PC announces that she will use a low Portent die to give him a very low score on the save.
Unknown to either the PCs or the players, this NPC has a magical item that prevents him from being frightened, so regardless of the roll of the die, he will be unaffected by the spell.
If I announce that the NPC is not frightened, the players (and PCs) will know that the NPC either has a very high Wisdom modifier, or has some item or ability that prevents him from being frightened.
I would rather the players and PCs did not know this. Also, the NPC would rather the PCs did not know this.
Can the NPC tell that he has been "Portented"?
If so, he could choose to pretend that he had failed the save i.e. pretend to be frightened. Depending on the circumstances, this might be preferable for the NPC to giving away the existence of his magical item. It might also be preferable for me as the DM, given that I want to keep this item a secret...
dnd-5e class-feature wizard divination
New contributor
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Consider the following situation (from my perspective as the DM):
One of my PCs casts a spell on an NPC (or monster etc.) which forces the target to make, say, a Wisdom save, or else be frightened.
Before the NPC rolls for his save, the divination wizard PC announces that she will use a low Portent die to give him a very low score on the save.
Unknown to either the PCs or the players, this NPC has a magical item that prevents him from being frightened, so regardless of the roll of the die, he will be unaffected by the spell.
If I announce that the NPC is not frightened, the players (and PCs) will know that the NPC either has a very high Wisdom modifier, or has some item or ability that prevents him from being frightened.
I would rather the players and PCs did not know this. Also, the NPC would rather the PCs did not know this.
Can the NPC tell that he has been "Portented"?
If so, he could choose to pretend that he had failed the save i.e. pretend to be frightened. Depending on the circumstances, this might be preferable for the NPC to giving away the existence of his magical item. It might also be preferable for me as the DM, given that I want to keep this item a secret...
dnd-5e class-feature wizard divination
New contributor
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already and see the help center if you need more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
$endgroup$
– Someone_Evil
Apr 28 at 21:01
1
$begingroup$
A question apparently prompted by the third bullet point: Does a creature that is immune to a condition still make a saving throw?
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
Apr 28 at 23:06
$begingroup$
@Phil Please see this meta for why your comment was removed. Thanks!
$endgroup$
– doppelgreener♦
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Does the NPC know that the spell is being cast and that it would have caused them to become Frightened?
$endgroup$
– Ifusaso
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Consider the following situation (from my perspective as the DM):
One of my PCs casts a spell on an NPC (or monster etc.) which forces the target to make, say, a Wisdom save, or else be frightened.
Before the NPC rolls for his save, the divination wizard PC announces that she will use a low Portent die to give him a very low score on the save.
Unknown to either the PCs or the players, this NPC has a magical item that prevents him from being frightened, so regardless of the roll of the die, he will be unaffected by the spell.
If I announce that the NPC is not frightened, the players (and PCs) will know that the NPC either has a very high Wisdom modifier, or has some item or ability that prevents him from being frightened.
I would rather the players and PCs did not know this. Also, the NPC would rather the PCs did not know this.
Can the NPC tell that he has been "Portented"?
If so, he could choose to pretend that he had failed the save i.e. pretend to be frightened. Depending on the circumstances, this might be preferable for the NPC to giving away the existence of his magical item. It might also be preferable for me as the DM, given that I want to keep this item a secret...
dnd-5e class-feature wizard divination
New contributor
$endgroup$
Consider the following situation (from my perspective as the DM):
One of my PCs casts a spell on an NPC (or monster etc.) which forces the target to make, say, a Wisdom save, or else be frightened.
Before the NPC rolls for his save, the divination wizard PC announces that she will use a low Portent die to give him a very low score on the save.
Unknown to either the PCs or the players, this NPC has a magical item that prevents him from being frightened, so regardless of the roll of the die, he will be unaffected by the spell.
If I announce that the NPC is not frightened, the players (and PCs) will know that the NPC either has a very high Wisdom modifier, or has some item or ability that prevents him from being frightened.
I would rather the players and PCs did not know this. Also, the NPC would rather the PCs did not know this.
Can the NPC tell that he has been "Portented"?
If so, he could choose to pretend that he had failed the save i.e. pretend to be frightened. Depending on the circumstances, this might be preferable for the NPC to giving away the existence of his magical item. It might also be preferable for me as the DM, given that I want to keep this item a secret...
dnd-5e class-feature wizard divination
dnd-5e class-feature wizard divination
New contributor
New contributor
edited Apr 28 at 22:09
V2Blast
28.6k5103173
28.6k5103173
New contributor
asked Apr 28 at 21:00
DM_with_secretsDM_with_secrets
734
734
New contributor
New contributor
1
$begingroup$
Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already and see the help center if you need more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
$endgroup$
– Someone_Evil
Apr 28 at 21:01
1
$begingroup$
A question apparently prompted by the third bullet point: Does a creature that is immune to a condition still make a saving throw?
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
Apr 28 at 23:06
$begingroup$
@Phil Please see this meta for why your comment was removed. Thanks!
$endgroup$
– doppelgreener♦
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Does the NPC know that the spell is being cast and that it would have caused them to become Frightened?
$endgroup$
– Ifusaso
2 days ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already and see the help center if you need more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
$endgroup$
– Someone_Evil
Apr 28 at 21:01
1
$begingroup$
A question apparently prompted by the third bullet point: Does a creature that is immune to a condition still make a saving throw?
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
Apr 28 at 23:06
$begingroup$
@Phil Please see this meta for why your comment was removed. Thanks!
$endgroup$
– doppelgreener♦
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Does the NPC know that the spell is being cast and that it would have caused them to become Frightened?
$endgroup$
– Ifusaso
2 days ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already and see the help center if you need more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
$endgroup$
– Someone_Evil
Apr 28 at 21:01
$begingroup$
Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already and see the help center if you need more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
$endgroup$
– Someone_Evil
Apr 28 at 21:01
1
1
$begingroup$
A question apparently prompted by the third bullet point: Does a creature that is immune to a condition still make a saving throw?
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
Apr 28 at 23:06
$begingroup$
A question apparently prompted by the third bullet point: Does a creature that is immune to a condition still make a saving throw?
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
Apr 28 at 23:06
$begingroup$
@Phil Please see this meta for why your comment was removed. Thanks!
$endgroup$
– doppelgreener♦
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@Phil Please see this meta for why your comment was removed. Thanks!
$endgroup$
– doppelgreener♦
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Does the NPC know that the spell is being cast and that it would have caused them to become Frightened?
$endgroup$
– Ifusaso
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Does the NPC know that the spell is being cast and that it would have caused them to become Frightened?
$endgroup$
– Ifusaso
2 days ago
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
No, there is no way to know that Portent was "used"
Portent is an unusual feature in that it leverages the distinction between the player and their character. Obviously, it is the player's choice when to replace a roll with a foretelling roll, but within the fiction, this does not correspond to any action or even any thought or intent on the character's part. All the character does is witness the fact that the glimpse of the future they received earlier that day has indeed come to pass.
To put it another way, when a foretelling roll is used, nothing changes in the present. Instead, the player retroactively decides what vision of the future their character has already received in the past. Hence, there is no detectable effect to be noticed in the present to determine that the feature was used.
This interpretation is supported by the first sentence of the feature, which is the only part that describes how it works rather than the mechanics of using it:
Starting at 2nd level when you choose this school, glimpses of the future begin to press in on your awareness.
Also note that no action or reaction of any kind is required to use the feature. If Portent represented an active manipulation of probability or fate by the diviner, it would make more sense for it to require a reaction to do so. Contrast this with the Wild Magic sorceror's Bend Luck ability, which explicitly does actively manipulate fate, and requires the sorceror's reaction to do so (emphasis added):
Starting at 6th level, you have the ability to twist fate using your wild magic. When another creature you can see makes an attack roll, an ability check, or a saving throw, you can use your reaction and spend 2 sorcery points to roll 1d4 and apply the number rolled as a bonus or penalty (your choice) to the creature’s roll. [...]
In the case of the Bend Luck ability, the sorceror is using their force of will to change something rather than passively witnessing something they had seen in a vision. In this case, it might not be unreasonable for the DM to rule that the victim sensed some kind of probabilistic funny business going on, e.g. "I'm sure that rock I tripped over wasn't there a second ago!"
Immunity to frightening (or another condition) is not a dead giveaway for your secret magic item
To address your specific problem, immunity to fear is not a terribly rare effect, so that alone isn't necessarily going to tip off your players that a special magic item is in play. Furthermore, if your players do infer that a magic item is protecting NPC from fear, they will most likely assume that the item does that and nothing more. From your question, it seems like the item in question probably does a good deal more than simply protect from fear. But if you're really worried about your players figuring it out, I think the best advice is to make sure you can still tell an interesting story if they do so, even if it's different from the story you had planned.
It seems that the fear effect was just an example, but the same can be said of most other condition immunities. At worst, your players will probably suspect a magic item or spell that specifically protects from that one condition.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No character in the game knows that a portent was used.
The Portent feature doesn't have any visible or otherwise detectable in-world component. As written, not even the Diviner knows about the Portent in any way other than that the events are unfolding the same way they saw in a "glimpse of the future". The characters don't know whether their fate is being decided by dice, the DM, or by the players.
However, your NPC might be able to tell which spell is being cast.
An optional rule in Xanathar's Guide to Everything allows a creature to use a reaction to make an Arcana check to know which spell another creature is casting (DC is equal to 15 plus the spell's level). You could make this roll behind the screen to allow the NPC to know that the PC's spell would normally cause fear, an effect they're immune to, and then act as if they're frightened.
Your players will not necessarily assume the NPC is immune to fear.
Lots of creatures have legendary resistances, allowing them to choose to succeed on a saving throw when the dice (or portent) say they fail. If your NPC shows no signs of being frightened even after being portented to fail, the players might just assume the NPC used a legendary resistance.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Probably not.
To understand the workings of the feature, here is the description of the Divination wizard's Portent feature from p. 116 of the Player's Handbook:
Starting at 2nd level when you choose this school, glimpses of the future begin to press in on your awareness. When you finish a long rest, roll two d20s and record the numbers rolled. You can replace any attack roll, saving throw, or ability check made by you or a creature that you can see with one of these foretelling rolls. You must choose to do so before the roll, and you can replace a roll in this way only once per turn.
Each foretelling roll can be used only once. When you finish a long rest, you lose any unused foretelling rolls.
As seen from here, the Divination Wizard doesn't actually alter the future but instead sees glimpses of it. Since all rolls of a die are independent of each other and equally likely to land on any of the numbers 1 through 20, the act of you replacing a creature's roll with a Portent die isn't equivalent to, say, imposing disadvantage on a roll, since what has essentially happened is that the die roll for that particular moment was already rolled when the Divination Wizard took a long rest.
It's ultimately up to how you roleplay it as to how powerful this can become, however. An intelligent creature, like a goblin, might notice that a certain wizard is of the divination school by the nature of their spells, and would realise that diviners can see glimpses into the future. As a result, it may logically pretend to fail saving throws against conditions despite immunity to them to throw off the players.
New contributor
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No
In general, things in D&D that are "magical" have no noticable effect unless the rules text says they do. For example, spells are not noticed unless they have a visible effect:
Unless a spell has a perceptible effect, a creature might not know it was targeted by a spell at all. An effect like crackling lightning is obvious, but a more subtle effect, such as an attempt to read a creature’s thoughts, typically goes unnoticed, unless a spell says otherwise.
Things aren't noticable unless the game says they are in 5e.
Portent doesn't have any noticable action tied to it.
In fact, the NPC may not be aware that it had a spell cast on it at all. Many spells have visible effects, and with Arcana you can deduce what the spell is, especially after it is cast (a yellow cone is far easier to recognize than specific hand gestures).
Some Frightened spells, like Antipathy, have no visible effect. The NPC would just feel an urge to leave the area. They would be unaware they where at risk of being Fightened, or that they had a saving throw or not.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Portent is not a spell, though. Why do you think the spell rules apply to a class feature?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch Spells are not noticed because no rule says they are noticed. There is no rule that Portent is noticed. Spells are just an example; even if the target rolls a saving throw, unless the spell has something the target can notice, the saving throw isn't noticed by the target; having dice substituted seems even less vulgar. I clarified.
$endgroup$
– Yakk
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Casting spells is noticeable, though (that's what the components are doing and why Subtle spell is a thing.) I'm not totally disagreeing, but you're shifting your answer into something the others have already covered now.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 days ago
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "122"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
DM_with_secrets is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f147074%2fcan-a-creature-tell-when-it-has-been-affected-by-a-divination-wizards-portent%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
No, there is no way to know that Portent was "used"
Portent is an unusual feature in that it leverages the distinction between the player and their character. Obviously, it is the player's choice when to replace a roll with a foretelling roll, but within the fiction, this does not correspond to any action or even any thought or intent on the character's part. All the character does is witness the fact that the glimpse of the future they received earlier that day has indeed come to pass.
To put it another way, when a foretelling roll is used, nothing changes in the present. Instead, the player retroactively decides what vision of the future their character has already received in the past. Hence, there is no detectable effect to be noticed in the present to determine that the feature was used.
This interpretation is supported by the first sentence of the feature, which is the only part that describes how it works rather than the mechanics of using it:
Starting at 2nd level when you choose this school, glimpses of the future begin to press in on your awareness.
Also note that no action or reaction of any kind is required to use the feature. If Portent represented an active manipulation of probability or fate by the diviner, it would make more sense for it to require a reaction to do so. Contrast this with the Wild Magic sorceror's Bend Luck ability, which explicitly does actively manipulate fate, and requires the sorceror's reaction to do so (emphasis added):
Starting at 6th level, you have the ability to twist fate using your wild magic. When another creature you can see makes an attack roll, an ability check, or a saving throw, you can use your reaction and spend 2 sorcery points to roll 1d4 and apply the number rolled as a bonus or penalty (your choice) to the creature’s roll. [...]
In the case of the Bend Luck ability, the sorceror is using their force of will to change something rather than passively witnessing something they had seen in a vision. In this case, it might not be unreasonable for the DM to rule that the victim sensed some kind of probabilistic funny business going on, e.g. "I'm sure that rock I tripped over wasn't there a second ago!"
Immunity to frightening (or another condition) is not a dead giveaway for your secret magic item
To address your specific problem, immunity to fear is not a terribly rare effect, so that alone isn't necessarily going to tip off your players that a special magic item is in play. Furthermore, if your players do infer that a magic item is protecting NPC from fear, they will most likely assume that the item does that and nothing more. From your question, it seems like the item in question probably does a good deal more than simply protect from fear. But if you're really worried about your players figuring it out, I think the best advice is to make sure you can still tell an interesting story if they do so, even if it's different from the story you had planned.
It seems that the fear effect was just an example, but the same can be said of most other condition immunities. At worst, your players will probably suspect a magic item or spell that specifically protects from that one condition.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No, there is no way to know that Portent was "used"
Portent is an unusual feature in that it leverages the distinction between the player and their character. Obviously, it is the player's choice when to replace a roll with a foretelling roll, but within the fiction, this does not correspond to any action or even any thought or intent on the character's part. All the character does is witness the fact that the glimpse of the future they received earlier that day has indeed come to pass.
To put it another way, when a foretelling roll is used, nothing changes in the present. Instead, the player retroactively decides what vision of the future their character has already received in the past. Hence, there is no detectable effect to be noticed in the present to determine that the feature was used.
This interpretation is supported by the first sentence of the feature, which is the only part that describes how it works rather than the mechanics of using it:
Starting at 2nd level when you choose this school, glimpses of the future begin to press in on your awareness.
Also note that no action or reaction of any kind is required to use the feature. If Portent represented an active manipulation of probability or fate by the diviner, it would make more sense for it to require a reaction to do so. Contrast this with the Wild Magic sorceror's Bend Luck ability, which explicitly does actively manipulate fate, and requires the sorceror's reaction to do so (emphasis added):
Starting at 6th level, you have the ability to twist fate using your wild magic. When another creature you can see makes an attack roll, an ability check, or a saving throw, you can use your reaction and spend 2 sorcery points to roll 1d4 and apply the number rolled as a bonus or penalty (your choice) to the creature’s roll. [...]
In the case of the Bend Luck ability, the sorceror is using their force of will to change something rather than passively witnessing something they had seen in a vision. In this case, it might not be unreasonable for the DM to rule that the victim sensed some kind of probabilistic funny business going on, e.g. "I'm sure that rock I tripped over wasn't there a second ago!"
Immunity to frightening (or another condition) is not a dead giveaway for your secret magic item
To address your specific problem, immunity to fear is not a terribly rare effect, so that alone isn't necessarily going to tip off your players that a special magic item is in play. Furthermore, if your players do infer that a magic item is protecting NPC from fear, they will most likely assume that the item does that and nothing more. From your question, it seems like the item in question probably does a good deal more than simply protect from fear. But if you're really worried about your players figuring it out, I think the best advice is to make sure you can still tell an interesting story if they do so, even if it's different from the story you had planned.
It seems that the fear effect was just an example, but the same can be said of most other condition immunities. At worst, your players will probably suspect a magic item or spell that specifically protects from that one condition.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No, there is no way to know that Portent was "used"
Portent is an unusual feature in that it leverages the distinction between the player and their character. Obviously, it is the player's choice when to replace a roll with a foretelling roll, but within the fiction, this does not correspond to any action or even any thought or intent on the character's part. All the character does is witness the fact that the glimpse of the future they received earlier that day has indeed come to pass.
To put it another way, when a foretelling roll is used, nothing changes in the present. Instead, the player retroactively decides what vision of the future their character has already received in the past. Hence, there is no detectable effect to be noticed in the present to determine that the feature was used.
This interpretation is supported by the first sentence of the feature, which is the only part that describes how it works rather than the mechanics of using it:
Starting at 2nd level when you choose this school, glimpses of the future begin to press in on your awareness.
Also note that no action or reaction of any kind is required to use the feature. If Portent represented an active manipulation of probability or fate by the diviner, it would make more sense for it to require a reaction to do so. Contrast this with the Wild Magic sorceror's Bend Luck ability, which explicitly does actively manipulate fate, and requires the sorceror's reaction to do so (emphasis added):
Starting at 6th level, you have the ability to twist fate using your wild magic. When another creature you can see makes an attack roll, an ability check, or a saving throw, you can use your reaction and spend 2 sorcery points to roll 1d4 and apply the number rolled as a bonus or penalty (your choice) to the creature’s roll. [...]
In the case of the Bend Luck ability, the sorceror is using their force of will to change something rather than passively witnessing something they had seen in a vision. In this case, it might not be unreasonable for the DM to rule that the victim sensed some kind of probabilistic funny business going on, e.g. "I'm sure that rock I tripped over wasn't there a second ago!"
Immunity to frightening (or another condition) is not a dead giveaway for your secret magic item
To address your specific problem, immunity to fear is not a terribly rare effect, so that alone isn't necessarily going to tip off your players that a special magic item is in play. Furthermore, if your players do infer that a magic item is protecting NPC from fear, they will most likely assume that the item does that and nothing more. From your question, it seems like the item in question probably does a good deal more than simply protect from fear. But if you're really worried about your players figuring it out, I think the best advice is to make sure you can still tell an interesting story if they do so, even if it's different from the story you had planned.
It seems that the fear effect was just an example, but the same can be said of most other condition immunities. At worst, your players will probably suspect a magic item or spell that specifically protects from that one condition.
$endgroup$
No, there is no way to know that Portent was "used"
Portent is an unusual feature in that it leverages the distinction between the player and their character. Obviously, it is the player's choice when to replace a roll with a foretelling roll, but within the fiction, this does not correspond to any action or even any thought or intent on the character's part. All the character does is witness the fact that the glimpse of the future they received earlier that day has indeed come to pass.
To put it another way, when a foretelling roll is used, nothing changes in the present. Instead, the player retroactively decides what vision of the future their character has already received in the past. Hence, there is no detectable effect to be noticed in the present to determine that the feature was used.
This interpretation is supported by the first sentence of the feature, which is the only part that describes how it works rather than the mechanics of using it:
Starting at 2nd level when you choose this school, glimpses of the future begin to press in on your awareness.
Also note that no action or reaction of any kind is required to use the feature. If Portent represented an active manipulation of probability or fate by the diviner, it would make more sense for it to require a reaction to do so. Contrast this with the Wild Magic sorceror's Bend Luck ability, which explicitly does actively manipulate fate, and requires the sorceror's reaction to do so (emphasis added):
Starting at 6th level, you have the ability to twist fate using your wild magic. When another creature you can see makes an attack roll, an ability check, or a saving throw, you can use your reaction and spend 2 sorcery points to roll 1d4 and apply the number rolled as a bonus or penalty (your choice) to the creature’s roll. [...]
In the case of the Bend Luck ability, the sorceror is using their force of will to change something rather than passively witnessing something they had seen in a vision. In this case, it might not be unreasonable for the DM to rule that the victim sensed some kind of probabilistic funny business going on, e.g. "I'm sure that rock I tripped over wasn't there a second ago!"
Immunity to frightening (or another condition) is not a dead giveaway for your secret magic item
To address your specific problem, immunity to fear is not a terribly rare effect, so that alone isn't necessarily going to tip off your players that a special magic item is in play. Furthermore, if your players do infer that a magic item is protecting NPC from fear, they will most likely assume that the item does that and nothing more. From your question, it seems like the item in question probably does a good deal more than simply protect from fear. But if you're really worried about your players figuring it out, I think the best advice is to make sure you can still tell an interesting story if they do so, even if it's different from the story you had planned.
It seems that the fear effect was just an example, but the same can be said of most other condition immunities. At worst, your players will probably suspect a magic item or spell that specifically protects from that one condition.
edited 2 days ago
answered Apr 28 at 21:16
Ryan ThompsonRyan Thompson
13.2k24598
13.2k24598
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No character in the game knows that a portent was used.
The Portent feature doesn't have any visible or otherwise detectable in-world component. As written, not even the Diviner knows about the Portent in any way other than that the events are unfolding the same way they saw in a "glimpse of the future". The characters don't know whether their fate is being decided by dice, the DM, or by the players.
However, your NPC might be able to tell which spell is being cast.
An optional rule in Xanathar's Guide to Everything allows a creature to use a reaction to make an Arcana check to know which spell another creature is casting (DC is equal to 15 plus the spell's level). You could make this roll behind the screen to allow the NPC to know that the PC's spell would normally cause fear, an effect they're immune to, and then act as if they're frightened.
Your players will not necessarily assume the NPC is immune to fear.
Lots of creatures have legendary resistances, allowing them to choose to succeed on a saving throw when the dice (or portent) say they fail. If your NPC shows no signs of being frightened even after being portented to fail, the players might just assume the NPC used a legendary resistance.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No character in the game knows that a portent was used.
The Portent feature doesn't have any visible or otherwise detectable in-world component. As written, not even the Diviner knows about the Portent in any way other than that the events are unfolding the same way they saw in a "glimpse of the future". The characters don't know whether their fate is being decided by dice, the DM, or by the players.
However, your NPC might be able to tell which spell is being cast.
An optional rule in Xanathar's Guide to Everything allows a creature to use a reaction to make an Arcana check to know which spell another creature is casting (DC is equal to 15 plus the spell's level). You could make this roll behind the screen to allow the NPC to know that the PC's spell would normally cause fear, an effect they're immune to, and then act as if they're frightened.
Your players will not necessarily assume the NPC is immune to fear.
Lots of creatures have legendary resistances, allowing them to choose to succeed on a saving throw when the dice (or portent) say they fail. If your NPC shows no signs of being frightened even after being portented to fail, the players might just assume the NPC used a legendary resistance.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No character in the game knows that a portent was used.
The Portent feature doesn't have any visible or otherwise detectable in-world component. As written, not even the Diviner knows about the Portent in any way other than that the events are unfolding the same way they saw in a "glimpse of the future". The characters don't know whether their fate is being decided by dice, the DM, or by the players.
However, your NPC might be able to tell which spell is being cast.
An optional rule in Xanathar's Guide to Everything allows a creature to use a reaction to make an Arcana check to know which spell another creature is casting (DC is equal to 15 plus the spell's level). You could make this roll behind the screen to allow the NPC to know that the PC's spell would normally cause fear, an effect they're immune to, and then act as if they're frightened.
Your players will not necessarily assume the NPC is immune to fear.
Lots of creatures have legendary resistances, allowing them to choose to succeed on a saving throw when the dice (or portent) say they fail. If your NPC shows no signs of being frightened even after being portented to fail, the players might just assume the NPC used a legendary resistance.
$endgroup$
No character in the game knows that a portent was used.
The Portent feature doesn't have any visible or otherwise detectable in-world component. As written, not even the Diviner knows about the Portent in any way other than that the events are unfolding the same way they saw in a "glimpse of the future". The characters don't know whether their fate is being decided by dice, the DM, or by the players.
However, your NPC might be able to tell which spell is being cast.
An optional rule in Xanathar's Guide to Everything allows a creature to use a reaction to make an Arcana check to know which spell another creature is casting (DC is equal to 15 plus the spell's level). You could make this roll behind the screen to allow the NPC to know that the PC's spell would normally cause fear, an effect they're immune to, and then act as if they're frightened.
Your players will not necessarily assume the NPC is immune to fear.
Lots of creatures have legendary resistances, allowing them to choose to succeed on a saving throw when the dice (or portent) say they fail. If your NPC shows no signs of being frightened even after being portented to fail, the players might just assume the NPC used a legendary resistance.
edited 2 days ago
answered Apr 28 at 21:10
ApocalispApocalisp
3,4931242
3,4931242
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Probably not.
To understand the workings of the feature, here is the description of the Divination wizard's Portent feature from p. 116 of the Player's Handbook:
Starting at 2nd level when you choose this school, glimpses of the future begin to press in on your awareness. When you finish a long rest, roll two d20s and record the numbers rolled. You can replace any attack roll, saving throw, or ability check made by you or a creature that you can see with one of these foretelling rolls. You must choose to do so before the roll, and you can replace a roll in this way only once per turn.
Each foretelling roll can be used only once. When you finish a long rest, you lose any unused foretelling rolls.
As seen from here, the Divination Wizard doesn't actually alter the future but instead sees glimpses of it. Since all rolls of a die are independent of each other and equally likely to land on any of the numbers 1 through 20, the act of you replacing a creature's roll with a Portent die isn't equivalent to, say, imposing disadvantage on a roll, since what has essentially happened is that the die roll for that particular moment was already rolled when the Divination Wizard took a long rest.
It's ultimately up to how you roleplay it as to how powerful this can become, however. An intelligent creature, like a goblin, might notice that a certain wizard is of the divination school by the nature of their spells, and would realise that diviners can see glimpses into the future. As a result, it may logically pretend to fail saving throws against conditions despite immunity to them to throw off the players.
New contributor
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Probably not.
To understand the workings of the feature, here is the description of the Divination wizard's Portent feature from p. 116 of the Player's Handbook:
Starting at 2nd level when you choose this school, glimpses of the future begin to press in on your awareness. When you finish a long rest, roll two d20s and record the numbers rolled. You can replace any attack roll, saving throw, or ability check made by you or a creature that you can see with one of these foretelling rolls. You must choose to do so before the roll, and you can replace a roll in this way only once per turn.
Each foretelling roll can be used only once. When you finish a long rest, you lose any unused foretelling rolls.
As seen from here, the Divination Wizard doesn't actually alter the future but instead sees glimpses of it. Since all rolls of a die are independent of each other and equally likely to land on any of the numbers 1 through 20, the act of you replacing a creature's roll with a Portent die isn't equivalent to, say, imposing disadvantage on a roll, since what has essentially happened is that the die roll for that particular moment was already rolled when the Divination Wizard took a long rest.
It's ultimately up to how you roleplay it as to how powerful this can become, however. An intelligent creature, like a goblin, might notice that a certain wizard is of the divination school by the nature of their spells, and would realise that diviners can see glimpses into the future. As a result, it may logically pretend to fail saving throws against conditions despite immunity to them to throw off the players.
New contributor
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Probably not.
To understand the workings of the feature, here is the description of the Divination wizard's Portent feature from p. 116 of the Player's Handbook:
Starting at 2nd level when you choose this school, glimpses of the future begin to press in on your awareness. When you finish a long rest, roll two d20s and record the numbers rolled. You can replace any attack roll, saving throw, or ability check made by you or a creature that you can see with one of these foretelling rolls. You must choose to do so before the roll, and you can replace a roll in this way only once per turn.
Each foretelling roll can be used only once. When you finish a long rest, you lose any unused foretelling rolls.
As seen from here, the Divination Wizard doesn't actually alter the future but instead sees glimpses of it. Since all rolls of a die are independent of each other and equally likely to land on any of the numbers 1 through 20, the act of you replacing a creature's roll with a Portent die isn't equivalent to, say, imposing disadvantage on a roll, since what has essentially happened is that the die roll for that particular moment was already rolled when the Divination Wizard took a long rest.
It's ultimately up to how you roleplay it as to how powerful this can become, however. An intelligent creature, like a goblin, might notice that a certain wizard is of the divination school by the nature of their spells, and would realise that diviners can see glimpses into the future. As a result, it may logically pretend to fail saving throws against conditions despite immunity to them to throw off the players.
New contributor
$endgroup$
Probably not.
To understand the workings of the feature, here is the description of the Divination wizard's Portent feature from p. 116 of the Player's Handbook:
Starting at 2nd level when you choose this school, glimpses of the future begin to press in on your awareness. When you finish a long rest, roll two d20s and record the numbers rolled. You can replace any attack roll, saving throw, or ability check made by you or a creature that you can see with one of these foretelling rolls. You must choose to do so before the roll, and you can replace a roll in this way only once per turn.
Each foretelling roll can be used only once. When you finish a long rest, you lose any unused foretelling rolls.
As seen from here, the Divination Wizard doesn't actually alter the future but instead sees glimpses of it. Since all rolls of a die are independent of each other and equally likely to land on any of the numbers 1 through 20, the act of you replacing a creature's roll with a Portent die isn't equivalent to, say, imposing disadvantage on a roll, since what has essentially happened is that the die roll for that particular moment was already rolled when the Divination Wizard took a long rest.
It's ultimately up to how you roleplay it as to how powerful this can become, however. An intelligent creature, like a goblin, might notice that a certain wizard is of the divination school by the nature of their spells, and would realise that diviners can see glimpses into the future. As a result, it may logically pretend to fail saving throws against conditions despite immunity to them to throw off the players.
New contributor
edited Apr 28 at 22:10
V2Blast
28.6k5103173
28.6k5103173
New contributor
answered Apr 28 at 21:27
KycetiKyceti
2314
2314
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No
In general, things in D&D that are "magical" have no noticable effect unless the rules text says they do. For example, spells are not noticed unless they have a visible effect:
Unless a spell has a perceptible effect, a creature might not know it was targeted by a spell at all. An effect like crackling lightning is obvious, but a more subtle effect, such as an attempt to read a creature’s thoughts, typically goes unnoticed, unless a spell says otherwise.
Things aren't noticable unless the game says they are in 5e.
Portent doesn't have any noticable action tied to it.
In fact, the NPC may not be aware that it had a spell cast on it at all. Many spells have visible effects, and with Arcana you can deduce what the spell is, especially after it is cast (a yellow cone is far easier to recognize than specific hand gestures).
Some Frightened spells, like Antipathy, have no visible effect. The NPC would just feel an urge to leave the area. They would be unaware they where at risk of being Fightened, or that they had a saving throw or not.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Portent is not a spell, though. Why do you think the spell rules apply to a class feature?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch Spells are not noticed because no rule says they are noticed. There is no rule that Portent is noticed. Spells are just an example; even if the target rolls a saving throw, unless the spell has something the target can notice, the saving throw isn't noticed by the target; having dice substituted seems even less vulgar. I clarified.
$endgroup$
– Yakk
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Casting spells is noticeable, though (that's what the components are doing and why Subtle spell is a thing.) I'm not totally disagreeing, but you're shifting your answer into something the others have already covered now.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No
In general, things in D&D that are "magical" have no noticable effect unless the rules text says they do. For example, spells are not noticed unless they have a visible effect:
Unless a spell has a perceptible effect, a creature might not know it was targeted by a spell at all. An effect like crackling lightning is obvious, but a more subtle effect, such as an attempt to read a creature’s thoughts, typically goes unnoticed, unless a spell says otherwise.
Things aren't noticable unless the game says they are in 5e.
Portent doesn't have any noticable action tied to it.
In fact, the NPC may not be aware that it had a spell cast on it at all. Many spells have visible effects, and with Arcana you can deduce what the spell is, especially after it is cast (a yellow cone is far easier to recognize than specific hand gestures).
Some Frightened spells, like Antipathy, have no visible effect. The NPC would just feel an urge to leave the area. They would be unaware they where at risk of being Fightened, or that they had a saving throw or not.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Portent is not a spell, though. Why do you think the spell rules apply to a class feature?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch Spells are not noticed because no rule says they are noticed. There is no rule that Portent is noticed. Spells are just an example; even if the target rolls a saving throw, unless the spell has something the target can notice, the saving throw isn't noticed by the target; having dice substituted seems even less vulgar. I clarified.
$endgroup$
– Yakk
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Casting spells is noticeable, though (that's what the components are doing and why Subtle spell is a thing.) I'm not totally disagreeing, but you're shifting your answer into something the others have already covered now.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No
In general, things in D&D that are "magical" have no noticable effect unless the rules text says they do. For example, spells are not noticed unless they have a visible effect:
Unless a spell has a perceptible effect, a creature might not know it was targeted by a spell at all. An effect like crackling lightning is obvious, but a more subtle effect, such as an attempt to read a creature’s thoughts, typically goes unnoticed, unless a spell says otherwise.
Things aren't noticable unless the game says they are in 5e.
Portent doesn't have any noticable action tied to it.
In fact, the NPC may not be aware that it had a spell cast on it at all. Many spells have visible effects, and with Arcana you can deduce what the spell is, especially after it is cast (a yellow cone is far easier to recognize than specific hand gestures).
Some Frightened spells, like Antipathy, have no visible effect. The NPC would just feel an urge to leave the area. They would be unaware they where at risk of being Fightened, or that they had a saving throw or not.
$endgroup$
No
In general, things in D&D that are "magical" have no noticable effect unless the rules text says they do. For example, spells are not noticed unless they have a visible effect:
Unless a spell has a perceptible effect, a creature might not know it was targeted by a spell at all. An effect like crackling lightning is obvious, but a more subtle effect, such as an attempt to read a creature’s thoughts, typically goes unnoticed, unless a spell says otherwise.
Things aren't noticable unless the game says they are in 5e.
Portent doesn't have any noticable action tied to it.
In fact, the NPC may not be aware that it had a spell cast on it at all. Many spells have visible effects, and with Arcana you can deduce what the spell is, especially after it is cast (a yellow cone is far easier to recognize than specific hand gestures).
Some Frightened spells, like Antipathy, have no visible effect. The NPC would just feel an urge to leave the area. They would be unaware they where at risk of being Fightened, or that they had a saving throw or not.
edited 2 days ago
V2Blast
28.6k5103173
28.6k5103173
answered 2 days ago
YakkYakk
8,0261143
8,0261143
$begingroup$
Portent is not a spell, though. Why do you think the spell rules apply to a class feature?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch Spells are not noticed because no rule says they are noticed. There is no rule that Portent is noticed. Spells are just an example; even if the target rolls a saving throw, unless the spell has something the target can notice, the saving throw isn't noticed by the target; having dice substituted seems even less vulgar. I clarified.
$endgroup$
– Yakk
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Casting spells is noticeable, though (that's what the components are doing and why Subtle spell is a thing.) I'm not totally disagreeing, but you're shifting your answer into something the others have already covered now.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Portent is not a spell, though. Why do you think the spell rules apply to a class feature?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch Spells are not noticed because no rule says they are noticed. There is no rule that Portent is noticed. Spells are just an example; even if the target rolls a saving throw, unless the spell has something the target can notice, the saving throw isn't noticed by the target; having dice substituted seems even less vulgar. I clarified.
$endgroup$
– Yakk
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Casting spells is noticeable, though (that's what the components are doing and why Subtle spell is a thing.) I'm not totally disagreeing, but you're shifting your answer into something the others have already covered now.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Portent is not a spell, though. Why do you think the spell rules apply to a class feature?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Portent is not a spell, though. Why do you think the spell rules apply to a class feature?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch Spells are not noticed because no rule says they are noticed. There is no rule that Portent is noticed. Spells are just an example; even if the target rolls a saving throw, unless the spell has something the target can notice, the saving throw isn't noticed by the target; having dice substituted seems even less vulgar. I clarified.
$endgroup$
– Yakk
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch Spells are not noticed because no rule says they are noticed. There is no rule that Portent is noticed. Spells are just an example; even if the target rolls a saving throw, unless the spell has something the target can notice, the saving throw isn't noticed by the target; having dice substituted seems even less vulgar. I clarified.
$endgroup$
– Yakk
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Casting spells is noticeable, though (that's what the components are doing and why Subtle spell is a thing.) I'm not totally disagreeing, but you're shifting your answer into something the others have already covered now.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Casting spells is noticeable, though (that's what the components are doing and why Subtle spell is a thing.) I'm not totally disagreeing, but you're shifting your answer into something the others have already covered now.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 days ago
add a comment |
DM_with_secrets is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
DM_with_secrets is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
DM_with_secrets is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
DM_with_secrets is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Thanks for contributing an answer to Role-playing Games Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f147074%2fcan-a-creature-tell-when-it-has-been-affected-by-a-divination-wizards-portent%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
1
$begingroup$
Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already and see the help center if you need more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
$endgroup$
– Someone_Evil
Apr 28 at 21:01
1
$begingroup$
A question apparently prompted by the third bullet point: Does a creature that is immune to a condition still make a saving throw?
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
Apr 28 at 23:06
$begingroup$
@Phil Please see this meta for why your comment was removed. Thanks!
$endgroup$
– doppelgreener♦
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Does the NPC know that the spell is being cast and that it would have caused them to become Frightened?
$endgroup$
– Ifusaso
2 days ago