When is one 'Ready' to make Original Contributions to Mathematics?How to escape the inclination to be a universalist or: How to learn to stop worrying and do some research.On starting graduate school and common pitfalls…Examples of great mathematical writingToo old for advanced mathematics?Is Galois theory necessary (in a basic graduate algebra course)?How Do You Go About Learning Mathematics?How to write popular mathematics well?Problems with Journal Submissions due to arXiv Submission?Essays and thoughts on mathematicsGiven alphabetical ordering of authors, how to establish level of contribution?Classification of $p$-groups, what after it?Examples of (Git) open math (texts) projects

When is one 'Ready' to make Original Contributions to Mathematics?


How to escape the inclination to be a universalist or: How to learn to stop worrying and do some research.On starting graduate school and common pitfalls…Examples of great mathematical writingToo old for advanced mathematics?Is Galois theory necessary (in a basic graduate algebra course)?How Do You Go About Learning Mathematics?How to write popular mathematics well?Problems with Journal Submissions due to arXiv Submission?Essays and thoughts on mathematicsGiven alphabetical ordering of authors, how to establish level of contribution?Classification of $p$-groups, what after it?Examples of (Git) open math (texts) projects













33












$begingroup$


This is quite a philosophical, soft question which can be moved if necessary.



So, basically I started my PhD 9 months ago and have thrown myself into learning more mathematics and found this an enjoyable and rewarding experience. However, I have come to realise how much further I still have to go to reach a point where I could even think about publishing original contributions in the literature given how intensively everything has already been studied and the discoveries already made.



For example, I have just finished a 600 page textbook on graduate level mathematics. Although it took me a while to understand everything in it, I learned from this and enjoyed doing the exercises, but realised by the end that I still basically know nothing and that it is really intended as a springboard to slightly more advanced texts. I picked up another book which starts to delve more into one of the specific aspects in the book and again, it is 500 pages long.



Do I have to read another 500 page book to get a sense of something more specific which I can contribute? At this rate, it will be years and years before I am ever able to publish anything. I only ask as I was a few years older than normal when I started studying mathematics so I feel like I am already playing catch-up slightly and that at this rate I will be an old man by the time I know enough to actually contribute anything.



Edit: Many thanks for the comments and I have taken them on board. I don't regret reading the entire book which I have already read as it is a classic but for now on I will focus on reading papers and trying to solve problems, then work backwards and use books as references if necessary.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 19




    $begingroup$
    This varies from area to area, but ultimately it is your Ph.D. advisor's job to chart for you a narrowish path throw the literature to a point where you can make an original contribution. I have this model that in your undergraduate you are learning the basics in a ball around 0, but in your Ph.D. you have to start drilling a fairly narrow path through the vast body of mathematics to an accessible point on the frontier, before making that tunnel wider over time. Your Ph.D. advisor should have some idea of which points on the frontier are accessible to you and how to get there.
    $endgroup$
    – Alex B.
    Jul 3 at 12:28






  • 23




    $begingroup$
    You don't need to know everything before you can do anything. Also, the nature of Mathematics is such that even people who work at all their lives feel that they know nothing of what is there to be known, so the feeling you mention is not unique to you. It's good to keep learning, and there may well naturally (hopefully soon) come a point when you have an insight which no-one else seems to have had, or you can answer a question that was previously unanswered, or ask an interesting question previously unasked.
    $endgroup$
    – Geoff Robinson
    Jul 3 at 12:29







  • 7




    $begingroup$
    I think it is good if you start with an actual problem, and start working backwards. Read related papers, and then read the definitions needed to make sense of the papers. You do not need to understand papers in detail, but make notes of the main ideas, so that you can return and study the techniques in detail once you believe you need them.
    $endgroup$
    – Per Alexandersson
    Jul 3 at 12:36







  • 19




    $begingroup$
    My experience is that reading entire textbooks is a very bad way to start doing research. Read papers instead
    $endgroup$
    – Stanley Yao Xiao
    Jul 3 at 14:16






  • 14




    $begingroup$
    @AlexB. your model (which I agree with) is nearly identical to this one: matt.might.net/articles/phd-school-in-pictures
    $endgroup$
    – Terry Tao
    Jul 3 at 23:08















33












$begingroup$


This is quite a philosophical, soft question which can be moved if necessary.



So, basically I started my PhD 9 months ago and have thrown myself into learning more mathematics and found this an enjoyable and rewarding experience. However, I have come to realise how much further I still have to go to reach a point where I could even think about publishing original contributions in the literature given how intensively everything has already been studied and the discoveries already made.



For example, I have just finished a 600 page textbook on graduate level mathematics. Although it took me a while to understand everything in it, I learned from this and enjoyed doing the exercises, but realised by the end that I still basically know nothing and that it is really intended as a springboard to slightly more advanced texts. I picked up another book which starts to delve more into one of the specific aspects in the book and again, it is 500 pages long.



Do I have to read another 500 page book to get a sense of something more specific which I can contribute? At this rate, it will be years and years before I am ever able to publish anything. I only ask as I was a few years older than normal when I started studying mathematics so I feel like I am already playing catch-up slightly and that at this rate I will be an old man by the time I know enough to actually contribute anything.



Edit: Many thanks for the comments and I have taken them on board. I don't regret reading the entire book which I have already read as it is a classic but for now on I will focus on reading papers and trying to solve problems, then work backwards and use books as references if necessary.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 19




    $begingroup$
    This varies from area to area, but ultimately it is your Ph.D. advisor's job to chart for you a narrowish path throw the literature to a point where you can make an original contribution. I have this model that in your undergraduate you are learning the basics in a ball around 0, but in your Ph.D. you have to start drilling a fairly narrow path through the vast body of mathematics to an accessible point on the frontier, before making that tunnel wider over time. Your Ph.D. advisor should have some idea of which points on the frontier are accessible to you and how to get there.
    $endgroup$
    – Alex B.
    Jul 3 at 12:28






  • 23




    $begingroup$
    You don't need to know everything before you can do anything. Also, the nature of Mathematics is such that even people who work at all their lives feel that they know nothing of what is there to be known, so the feeling you mention is not unique to you. It's good to keep learning, and there may well naturally (hopefully soon) come a point when you have an insight which no-one else seems to have had, or you can answer a question that was previously unanswered, or ask an interesting question previously unasked.
    $endgroup$
    – Geoff Robinson
    Jul 3 at 12:29







  • 7




    $begingroup$
    I think it is good if you start with an actual problem, and start working backwards. Read related papers, and then read the definitions needed to make sense of the papers. You do not need to understand papers in detail, but make notes of the main ideas, so that you can return and study the techniques in detail once you believe you need them.
    $endgroup$
    – Per Alexandersson
    Jul 3 at 12:36







  • 19




    $begingroup$
    My experience is that reading entire textbooks is a very bad way to start doing research. Read papers instead
    $endgroup$
    – Stanley Yao Xiao
    Jul 3 at 14:16






  • 14




    $begingroup$
    @AlexB. your model (which I agree with) is nearly identical to this one: matt.might.net/articles/phd-school-in-pictures
    $endgroup$
    – Terry Tao
    Jul 3 at 23:08













33












33








33


15



$begingroup$


This is quite a philosophical, soft question which can be moved if necessary.



So, basically I started my PhD 9 months ago and have thrown myself into learning more mathematics and found this an enjoyable and rewarding experience. However, I have come to realise how much further I still have to go to reach a point where I could even think about publishing original contributions in the literature given how intensively everything has already been studied and the discoveries already made.



For example, I have just finished a 600 page textbook on graduate level mathematics. Although it took me a while to understand everything in it, I learned from this and enjoyed doing the exercises, but realised by the end that I still basically know nothing and that it is really intended as a springboard to slightly more advanced texts. I picked up another book which starts to delve more into one of the specific aspects in the book and again, it is 500 pages long.



Do I have to read another 500 page book to get a sense of something more specific which I can contribute? At this rate, it will be years and years before I am ever able to publish anything. I only ask as I was a few years older than normal when I started studying mathematics so I feel like I am already playing catch-up slightly and that at this rate I will be an old man by the time I know enough to actually contribute anything.



Edit: Many thanks for the comments and I have taken them on board. I don't regret reading the entire book which I have already read as it is a classic but for now on I will focus on reading papers and trying to solve problems, then work backwards and use books as references if necessary.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




This is quite a philosophical, soft question which can be moved if necessary.



So, basically I started my PhD 9 months ago and have thrown myself into learning more mathematics and found this an enjoyable and rewarding experience. However, I have come to realise how much further I still have to go to reach a point where I could even think about publishing original contributions in the literature given how intensively everything has already been studied and the discoveries already made.



For example, I have just finished a 600 page textbook on graduate level mathematics. Although it took me a while to understand everything in it, I learned from this and enjoyed doing the exercises, but realised by the end that I still basically know nothing and that it is really intended as a springboard to slightly more advanced texts. I picked up another book which starts to delve more into one of the specific aspects in the book and again, it is 500 pages long.



Do I have to read another 500 page book to get a sense of something more specific which I can contribute? At this rate, it will be years and years before I am ever able to publish anything. I only ask as I was a few years older than normal when I started studying mathematics so I feel like I am already playing catch-up slightly and that at this rate I will be an old man by the time I know enough to actually contribute anything.



Edit: Many thanks for the comments and I have taken them on board. I don't regret reading the entire book which I have already read as it is a classic but for now on I will focus on reading papers and trying to solve problems, then work backwards and use books as references if necessary.







soft-question






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Jul 3 at 20:46







Tom

















asked Jul 3 at 12:14









TomTom

6747 silver badges17 bronze badges




6747 silver badges17 bronze badges







  • 19




    $begingroup$
    This varies from area to area, but ultimately it is your Ph.D. advisor's job to chart for you a narrowish path throw the literature to a point where you can make an original contribution. I have this model that in your undergraduate you are learning the basics in a ball around 0, but in your Ph.D. you have to start drilling a fairly narrow path through the vast body of mathematics to an accessible point on the frontier, before making that tunnel wider over time. Your Ph.D. advisor should have some idea of which points on the frontier are accessible to you and how to get there.
    $endgroup$
    – Alex B.
    Jul 3 at 12:28






  • 23




    $begingroup$
    You don't need to know everything before you can do anything. Also, the nature of Mathematics is such that even people who work at all their lives feel that they know nothing of what is there to be known, so the feeling you mention is not unique to you. It's good to keep learning, and there may well naturally (hopefully soon) come a point when you have an insight which no-one else seems to have had, or you can answer a question that was previously unanswered, or ask an interesting question previously unasked.
    $endgroup$
    – Geoff Robinson
    Jul 3 at 12:29







  • 7




    $begingroup$
    I think it is good if you start with an actual problem, and start working backwards. Read related papers, and then read the definitions needed to make sense of the papers. You do not need to understand papers in detail, but make notes of the main ideas, so that you can return and study the techniques in detail once you believe you need them.
    $endgroup$
    – Per Alexandersson
    Jul 3 at 12:36







  • 19




    $begingroup$
    My experience is that reading entire textbooks is a very bad way to start doing research. Read papers instead
    $endgroup$
    – Stanley Yao Xiao
    Jul 3 at 14:16






  • 14




    $begingroup$
    @AlexB. your model (which I agree with) is nearly identical to this one: matt.might.net/articles/phd-school-in-pictures
    $endgroup$
    – Terry Tao
    Jul 3 at 23:08












  • 19




    $begingroup$
    This varies from area to area, but ultimately it is your Ph.D. advisor's job to chart for you a narrowish path throw the literature to a point where you can make an original contribution. I have this model that in your undergraduate you are learning the basics in a ball around 0, but in your Ph.D. you have to start drilling a fairly narrow path through the vast body of mathematics to an accessible point on the frontier, before making that tunnel wider over time. Your Ph.D. advisor should have some idea of which points on the frontier are accessible to you and how to get there.
    $endgroup$
    – Alex B.
    Jul 3 at 12:28






  • 23




    $begingroup$
    You don't need to know everything before you can do anything. Also, the nature of Mathematics is such that even people who work at all their lives feel that they know nothing of what is there to be known, so the feeling you mention is not unique to you. It's good to keep learning, and there may well naturally (hopefully soon) come a point when you have an insight which no-one else seems to have had, or you can answer a question that was previously unanswered, or ask an interesting question previously unasked.
    $endgroup$
    – Geoff Robinson
    Jul 3 at 12:29







  • 7




    $begingroup$
    I think it is good if you start with an actual problem, and start working backwards. Read related papers, and then read the definitions needed to make sense of the papers. You do not need to understand papers in detail, but make notes of the main ideas, so that you can return and study the techniques in detail once you believe you need them.
    $endgroup$
    – Per Alexandersson
    Jul 3 at 12:36







  • 19




    $begingroup$
    My experience is that reading entire textbooks is a very bad way to start doing research. Read papers instead
    $endgroup$
    – Stanley Yao Xiao
    Jul 3 at 14:16






  • 14




    $begingroup$
    @AlexB. your model (which I agree with) is nearly identical to this one: matt.might.net/articles/phd-school-in-pictures
    $endgroup$
    – Terry Tao
    Jul 3 at 23:08







19




19




$begingroup$
This varies from area to area, but ultimately it is your Ph.D. advisor's job to chart for you a narrowish path throw the literature to a point where you can make an original contribution. I have this model that in your undergraduate you are learning the basics in a ball around 0, but in your Ph.D. you have to start drilling a fairly narrow path through the vast body of mathematics to an accessible point on the frontier, before making that tunnel wider over time. Your Ph.D. advisor should have some idea of which points on the frontier are accessible to you and how to get there.
$endgroup$
– Alex B.
Jul 3 at 12:28




$begingroup$
This varies from area to area, but ultimately it is your Ph.D. advisor's job to chart for you a narrowish path throw the literature to a point where you can make an original contribution. I have this model that in your undergraduate you are learning the basics in a ball around 0, but in your Ph.D. you have to start drilling a fairly narrow path through the vast body of mathematics to an accessible point on the frontier, before making that tunnel wider over time. Your Ph.D. advisor should have some idea of which points on the frontier are accessible to you and how to get there.
$endgroup$
– Alex B.
Jul 3 at 12:28




23




23




$begingroup$
You don't need to know everything before you can do anything. Also, the nature of Mathematics is such that even people who work at all their lives feel that they know nothing of what is there to be known, so the feeling you mention is not unique to you. It's good to keep learning, and there may well naturally (hopefully soon) come a point when you have an insight which no-one else seems to have had, or you can answer a question that was previously unanswered, or ask an interesting question previously unasked.
$endgroup$
– Geoff Robinson
Jul 3 at 12:29





$begingroup$
You don't need to know everything before you can do anything. Also, the nature of Mathematics is such that even people who work at all their lives feel that they know nothing of what is there to be known, so the feeling you mention is not unique to you. It's good to keep learning, and there may well naturally (hopefully soon) come a point when you have an insight which no-one else seems to have had, or you can answer a question that was previously unanswered, or ask an interesting question previously unasked.
$endgroup$
– Geoff Robinson
Jul 3 at 12:29





7




7




$begingroup$
I think it is good if you start with an actual problem, and start working backwards. Read related papers, and then read the definitions needed to make sense of the papers. You do not need to understand papers in detail, but make notes of the main ideas, so that you can return and study the techniques in detail once you believe you need them.
$endgroup$
– Per Alexandersson
Jul 3 at 12:36





$begingroup$
I think it is good if you start with an actual problem, and start working backwards. Read related papers, and then read the definitions needed to make sense of the papers. You do not need to understand papers in detail, but make notes of the main ideas, so that you can return and study the techniques in detail once you believe you need them.
$endgroup$
– Per Alexandersson
Jul 3 at 12:36





19




19




$begingroup$
My experience is that reading entire textbooks is a very bad way to start doing research. Read papers instead
$endgroup$
– Stanley Yao Xiao
Jul 3 at 14:16




$begingroup$
My experience is that reading entire textbooks is a very bad way to start doing research. Read papers instead
$endgroup$
– Stanley Yao Xiao
Jul 3 at 14:16




14




14




$begingroup$
@AlexB. your model (which I agree with) is nearly identical to this one: matt.might.net/articles/phd-school-in-pictures
$endgroup$
– Terry Tao
Jul 3 at 23:08




$begingroup$
@AlexB. your model (which I agree with) is nearly identical to this one: matt.might.net/articles/phd-school-in-pictures
$endgroup$
– Terry Tao
Jul 3 at 23:08










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















35












$begingroup$

It is something of a myth that everything has already been studied and that you have to master thousands of pages of prior work before you can contribute something new.



To be sure, there are some subfields of mathematics that are highly technical, and you're unlikely to be able to contribute something new to them unless you've studied a lot of background material. However, there are also areas of mathematics that don't require that much background knowledge. For example, Aubrey de Grey recently made spectacular progress on a longstanding open problem in combinatorics, and almost no background knowledge was needed for that problem. Even in supposedly highly technical areas of mathematics, people sometimes come up with breakthroughs that employ very little advanced machinery.



As others have mentioned, more crucial than "knowing everything" are (1) finding a good problem to work on, and (2) having problem-solving ability. If you have both of these, then you can typically learn what you need as you go along. When you're at an early stage in your career, finding a good problem generally requires an advisor, unless you have the rare ability to smell out good problems yourself just by reading the literature and listening to talks. Problem-solving ability is probably innate to some extent, but a lot of it comes down to experience and persistence. Of course you will be a more powerful problem solver if you have a lot of tools in your toolbox, but generally speaking, you get better at solving problems by spending your time directly attempting to solve problems, and only reading the 500-page books when it becomes clear that they are needed to solve the problem you have in mind.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$








  • 4




    $begingroup$
    I recently wrote a paper on quantum mechanics essentially just by realising that something I had written in my notebook from reading papers on QM was a good problem to study, then when I realised that I required certain pieces of mathematics during the writing of the paper, I learned what I needed listening to talks and reading a few more papers, so I suppose I could just carry on like that.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 3 at 21:38






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Wow, did Aubrey de Grey really make such progress on that problem? I knew him for something completely different, that's very impressive.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 3 at 21:40






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Indeed, most people know Aubrey de Grey for something completely different, and his work on that problem was very impressive!
    $endgroup$
    – Timothy Chow
    Jul 4 at 1:57


















28












$begingroup$

Mathematics is not learned by reading books. One becomes a research mathematician by solving problems. Most people need an adviser to recommend a good problem. Then you start thinking and reading what is relevant to your specific problem. General education by reading books with hundreds of pages can be done as a parallel process, but the main emphasis should be on a specific problem. It is a duty of
the adviser to find a problem which does not require too much reading.



There are many examples that demonstrate these principles. Many good mathematicians obtained their first original results before the age of 18 or even much earlier,
at the time when
they learned very little.



Myself, I published my first paper at the age of 18, when I was a second year undergraduate student. I did not know much of mathematics at that time. I do not say that this paper is among my best, and at present I would not publish such a result, but this is irrelevant. The main point I am trying to make is that one has to solve problems, not to read books. It is not necessary that problems you solve in the beginning are new/publishable. But eventually you will obtain new results.
Finding a good adviser is a crucial matter, for most people.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$








  • 4




    $begingroup$
    I read the book to get an idea and then solve the problems in the book. I disagree with you in part: mathematics is partly solving problems but it's also about the ideas to a certain extent. Thanks for your advice, I will maybe start focussing on trying to solve problems as I feel like my knowledge is sufficient to tackle some problems I have in mind which are quite basic.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 3 at 14:29






  • 6




    $begingroup$
    @Tom: My main recommendation is to find a good adviser. In my case, the adviser proposed a research problem (unsolved) and pointed 3 or 4 relevant papers to read.
    $endgroup$
    – Alexandre Eremenko
    Jul 3 at 14:36






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    OK, that's a good idea. I know a research mathematician who has corresponded with me before on a problem they are trying to solve, so I am probably going to email them now with my thoughts on it and asking how we could progress or if they have more recommendations for papers to read.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 3 at 14:39






  • 20




    $begingroup$
    “Mathematics is not learned by reading books.” Well, mathematics as a body of knowledge can be learned with reasonable effectiveness by reading books, and that’s done all the time. Perhaps you meant that the skill of doing research in mathematics can not be learned by reading books? I would happily agree with that statement, but I feel that it’s important to draw a distinction (which may seem artificial to you as an accomplished research mathematician) between “mathematics” and “research in mathematics”, since for most users of mathematics those are two very different things.
    $endgroup$
    – Dan Romik
    Jul 3 at 19:32






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    Also when I took analysis courses in uni, I found that I often automatically knew the answers to many of the questions the instructor was asking because I had read Hardy's book on analysis, I don't think it's as simple as 'never read mathematics'.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 3 at 21:14


















6












$begingroup$

As a partial answer, learn to trust peer review. When you are starting out in graduate-level mathematics you focus on proofs and seldom go beyond statements which can be exhaustively reduced to basic axioms. In some ways that is the ideal of mathematics. But, when you get to the research frontier, you might discover that you need to use a statement which is contained in paper A, which at a crucial step in its proof invokes a result from paper B, which in turn invokes papers C, D and E, ... It could perhaps take months of work to see how that single statement ultimately follows from what you currently know. If you plunged down every such rabbit hole you encountered, it is unlikely that you would ever make progress. Exhaustive background knowledge is not a prerequisite for the creation of new knowledge. You can explore what follows from what is currently known, without first reducing what is currently known to first principles.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Thanks for your advice.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 5 at 15:59













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3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes








3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









35












$begingroup$

It is something of a myth that everything has already been studied and that you have to master thousands of pages of prior work before you can contribute something new.



To be sure, there are some subfields of mathematics that are highly technical, and you're unlikely to be able to contribute something new to them unless you've studied a lot of background material. However, there are also areas of mathematics that don't require that much background knowledge. For example, Aubrey de Grey recently made spectacular progress on a longstanding open problem in combinatorics, and almost no background knowledge was needed for that problem. Even in supposedly highly technical areas of mathematics, people sometimes come up with breakthroughs that employ very little advanced machinery.



As others have mentioned, more crucial than "knowing everything" are (1) finding a good problem to work on, and (2) having problem-solving ability. If you have both of these, then you can typically learn what you need as you go along. When you're at an early stage in your career, finding a good problem generally requires an advisor, unless you have the rare ability to smell out good problems yourself just by reading the literature and listening to talks. Problem-solving ability is probably innate to some extent, but a lot of it comes down to experience and persistence. Of course you will be a more powerful problem solver if you have a lot of tools in your toolbox, but generally speaking, you get better at solving problems by spending your time directly attempting to solve problems, and only reading the 500-page books when it becomes clear that they are needed to solve the problem you have in mind.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$








  • 4




    $begingroup$
    I recently wrote a paper on quantum mechanics essentially just by realising that something I had written in my notebook from reading papers on QM was a good problem to study, then when I realised that I required certain pieces of mathematics during the writing of the paper, I learned what I needed listening to talks and reading a few more papers, so I suppose I could just carry on like that.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 3 at 21:38






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Wow, did Aubrey de Grey really make such progress on that problem? I knew him for something completely different, that's very impressive.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 3 at 21:40






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Indeed, most people know Aubrey de Grey for something completely different, and his work on that problem was very impressive!
    $endgroup$
    – Timothy Chow
    Jul 4 at 1:57















35












$begingroup$

It is something of a myth that everything has already been studied and that you have to master thousands of pages of prior work before you can contribute something new.



To be sure, there are some subfields of mathematics that are highly technical, and you're unlikely to be able to contribute something new to them unless you've studied a lot of background material. However, there are also areas of mathematics that don't require that much background knowledge. For example, Aubrey de Grey recently made spectacular progress on a longstanding open problem in combinatorics, and almost no background knowledge was needed for that problem. Even in supposedly highly technical areas of mathematics, people sometimes come up with breakthroughs that employ very little advanced machinery.



As others have mentioned, more crucial than "knowing everything" are (1) finding a good problem to work on, and (2) having problem-solving ability. If you have both of these, then you can typically learn what you need as you go along. When you're at an early stage in your career, finding a good problem generally requires an advisor, unless you have the rare ability to smell out good problems yourself just by reading the literature and listening to talks. Problem-solving ability is probably innate to some extent, but a lot of it comes down to experience and persistence. Of course you will be a more powerful problem solver if you have a lot of tools in your toolbox, but generally speaking, you get better at solving problems by spending your time directly attempting to solve problems, and only reading the 500-page books when it becomes clear that they are needed to solve the problem you have in mind.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$








  • 4




    $begingroup$
    I recently wrote a paper on quantum mechanics essentially just by realising that something I had written in my notebook from reading papers on QM was a good problem to study, then when I realised that I required certain pieces of mathematics during the writing of the paper, I learned what I needed listening to talks and reading a few more papers, so I suppose I could just carry on like that.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 3 at 21:38






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Wow, did Aubrey de Grey really make such progress on that problem? I knew him for something completely different, that's very impressive.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 3 at 21:40






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Indeed, most people know Aubrey de Grey for something completely different, and his work on that problem was very impressive!
    $endgroup$
    – Timothy Chow
    Jul 4 at 1:57













35












35








35





$begingroup$

It is something of a myth that everything has already been studied and that you have to master thousands of pages of prior work before you can contribute something new.



To be sure, there are some subfields of mathematics that are highly technical, and you're unlikely to be able to contribute something new to them unless you've studied a lot of background material. However, there are also areas of mathematics that don't require that much background knowledge. For example, Aubrey de Grey recently made spectacular progress on a longstanding open problem in combinatorics, and almost no background knowledge was needed for that problem. Even in supposedly highly technical areas of mathematics, people sometimes come up with breakthroughs that employ very little advanced machinery.



As others have mentioned, more crucial than "knowing everything" are (1) finding a good problem to work on, and (2) having problem-solving ability. If you have both of these, then you can typically learn what you need as you go along. When you're at an early stage in your career, finding a good problem generally requires an advisor, unless you have the rare ability to smell out good problems yourself just by reading the literature and listening to talks. Problem-solving ability is probably innate to some extent, but a lot of it comes down to experience and persistence. Of course you will be a more powerful problem solver if you have a lot of tools in your toolbox, but generally speaking, you get better at solving problems by spending your time directly attempting to solve problems, and only reading the 500-page books when it becomes clear that they are needed to solve the problem you have in mind.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$



It is something of a myth that everything has already been studied and that you have to master thousands of pages of prior work before you can contribute something new.



To be sure, there are some subfields of mathematics that are highly technical, and you're unlikely to be able to contribute something new to them unless you've studied a lot of background material. However, there are also areas of mathematics that don't require that much background knowledge. For example, Aubrey de Grey recently made spectacular progress on a longstanding open problem in combinatorics, and almost no background knowledge was needed for that problem. Even in supposedly highly technical areas of mathematics, people sometimes come up with breakthroughs that employ very little advanced machinery.



As others have mentioned, more crucial than "knowing everything" are (1) finding a good problem to work on, and (2) having problem-solving ability. If you have both of these, then you can typically learn what you need as you go along. When you're at an early stage in your career, finding a good problem generally requires an advisor, unless you have the rare ability to smell out good problems yourself just by reading the literature and listening to talks. Problem-solving ability is probably innate to some extent, but a lot of it comes down to experience and persistence. Of course you will be a more powerful problem solver if you have a lot of tools in your toolbox, but generally speaking, you get better at solving problems by spending your time directly attempting to solve problems, and only reading the 500-page books when it becomes clear that they are needed to solve the problem you have in mind.







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered Jul 3 at 21:19









Timothy ChowTimothy Chow

36.4k14 gold badges186 silver badges328 bronze badges




36.4k14 gold badges186 silver badges328 bronze badges







  • 4




    $begingroup$
    I recently wrote a paper on quantum mechanics essentially just by realising that something I had written in my notebook from reading papers on QM was a good problem to study, then when I realised that I required certain pieces of mathematics during the writing of the paper, I learned what I needed listening to talks and reading a few more papers, so I suppose I could just carry on like that.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 3 at 21:38






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Wow, did Aubrey de Grey really make such progress on that problem? I knew him for something completely different, that's very impressive.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 3 at 21:40






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Indeed, most people know Aubrey de Grey for something completely different, and his work on that problem was very impressive!
    $endgroup$
    – Timothy Chow
    Jul 4 at 1:57












  • 4




    $begingroup$
    I recently wrote a paper on quantum mechanics essentially just by realising that something I had written in my notebook from reading papers on QM was a good problem to study, then when I realised that I required certain pieces of mathematics during the writing of the paper, I learned what I needed listening to talks and reading a few more papers, so I suppose I could just carry on like that.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 3 at 21:38






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Wow, did Aubrey de Grey really make such progress on that problem? I knew him for something completely different, that's very impressive.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 3 at 21:40






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Indeed, most people know Aubrey de Grey for something completely different, and his work on that problem was very impressive!
    $endgroup$
    – Timothy Chow
    Jul 4 at 1:57







4




4




$begingroup$
I recently wrote a paper on quantum mechanics essentially just by realising that something I had written in my notebook from reading papers on QM was a good problem to study, then when I realised that I required certain pieces of mathematics during the writing of the paper, I learned what I needed listening to talks and reading a few more papers, so I suppose I could just carry on like that.
$endgroup$
– Tom
Jul 3 at 21:38




$begingroup$
I recently wrote a paper on quantum mechanics essentially just by realising that something I had written in my notebook from reading papers on QM was a good problem to study, then when I realised that I required certain pieces of mathematics during the writing of the paper, I learned what I needed listening to talks and reading a few more papers, so I suppose I could just carry on like that.
$endgroup$
– Tom
Jul 3 at 21:38




1




1




$begingroup$
Wow, did Aubrey de Grey really make such progress on that problem? I knew him for something completely different, that's very impressive.
$endgroup$
– Tom
Jul 3 at 21:40




$begingroup$
Wow, did Aubrey de Grey really make such progress on that problem? I knew him for something completely different, that's very impressive.
$endgroup$
– Tom
Jul 3 at 21:40




2




2




$begingroup$
Indeed, most people know Aubrey de Grey for something completely different, and his work on that problem was very impressive!
$endgroup$
– Timothy Chow
Jul 4 at 1:57




$begingroup$
Indeed, most people know Aubrey de Grey for something completely different, and his work on that problem was very impressive!
$endgroup$
– Timothy Chow
Jul 4 at 1:57











28












$begingroup$

Mathematics is not learned by reading books. One becomes a research mathematician by solving problems. Most people need an adviser to recommend a good problem. Then you start thinking and reading what is relevant to your specific problem. General education by reading books with hundreds of pages can be done as a parallel process, but the main emphasis should be on a specific problem. It is a duty of
the adviser to find a problem which does not require too much reading.



There are many examples that demonstrate these principles. Many good mathematicians obtained their first original results before the age of 18 or even much earlier,
at the time when
they learned very little.



Myself, I published my first paper at the age of 18, when I was a second year undergraduate student. I did not know much of mathematics at that time. I do not say that this paper is among my best, and at present I would not publish such a result, but this is irrelevant. The main point I am trying to make is that one has to solve problems, not to read books. It is not necessary that problems you solve in the beginning are new/publishable. But eventually you will obtain new results.
Finding a good adviser is a crucial matter, for most people.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$








  • 4




    $begingroup$
    I read the book to get an idea and then solve the problems in the book. I disagree with you in part: mathematics is partly solving problems but it's also about the ideas to a certain extent. Thanks for your advice, I will maybe start focussing on trying to solve problems as I feel like my knowledge is sufficient to tackle some problems I have in mind which are quite basic.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 3 at 14:29






  • 6




    $begingroup$
    @Tom: My main recommendation is to find a good adviser. In my case, the adviser proposed a research problem (unsolved) and pointed 3 or 4 relevant papers to read.
    $endgroup$
    – Alexandre Eremenko
    Jul 3 at 14:36






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    OK, that's a good idea. I know a research mathematician who has corresponded with me before on a problem they are trying to solve, so I am probably going to email them now with my thoughts on it and asking how we could progress or if they have more recommendations for papers to read.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 3 at 14:39






  • 20




    $begingroup$
    “Mathematics is not learned by reading books.” Well, mathematics as a body of knowledge can be learned with reasonable effectiveness by reading books, and that’s done all the time. Perhaps you meant that the skill of doing research in mathematics can not be learned by reading books? I would happily agree with that statement, but I feel that it’s important to draw a distinction (which may seem artificial to you as an accomplished research mathematician) between “mathematics” and “research in mathematics”, since for most users of mathematics those are two very different things.
    $endgroup$
    – Dan Romik
    Jul 3 at 19:32






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    Also when I took analysis courses in uni, I found that I often automatically knew the answers to many of the questions the instructor was asking because I had read Hardy's book on analysis, I don't think it's as simple as 'never read mathematics'.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 3 at 21:14















28












$begingroup$

Mathematics is not learned by reading books. One becomes a research mathematician by solving problems. Most people need an adviser to recommend a good problem. Then you start thinking and reading what is relevant to your specific problem. General education by reading books with hundreds of pages can be done as a parallel process, but the main emphasis should be on a specific problem. It is a duty of
the adviser to find a problem which does not require too much reading.



There are many examples that demonstrate these principles. Many good mathematicians obtained their first original results before the age of 18 or even much earlier,
at the time when
they learned very little.



Myself, I published my first paper at the age of 18, when I was a second year undergraduate student. I did not know much of mathematics at that time. I do not say that this paper is among my best, and at present I would not publish such a result, but this is irrelevant. The main point I am trying to make is that one has to solve problems, not to read books. It is not necessary that problems you solve in the beginning are new/publishable. But eventually you will obtain new results.
Finding a good adviser is a crucial matter, for most people.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$








  • 4




    $begingroup$
    I read the book to get an idea and then solve the problems in the book. I disagree with you in part: mathematics is partly solving problems but it's also about the ideas to a certain extent. Thanks for your advice, I will maybe start focussing on trying to solve problems as I feel like my knowledge is sufficient to tackle some problems I have in mind which are quite basic.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 3 at 14:29






  • 6




    $begingroup$
    @Tom: My main recommendation is to find a good adviser. In my case, the adviser proposed a research problem (unsolved) and pointed 3 or 4 relevant papers to read.
    $endgroup$
    – Alexandre Eremenko
    Jul 3 at 14:36






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    OK, that's a good idea. I know a research mathematician who has corresponded with me before on a problem they are trying to solve, so I am probably going to email them now with my thoughts on it and asking how we could progress or if they have more recommendations for papers to read.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 3 at 14:39






  • 20




    $begingroup$
    “Mathematics is not learned by reading books.” Well, mathematics as a body of knowledge can be learned with reasonable effectiveness by reading books, and that’s done all the time. Perhaps you meant that the skill of doing research in mathematics can not be learned by reading books? I would happily agree with that statement, but I feel that it’s important to draw a distinction (which may seem artificial to you as an accomplished research mathematician) between “mathematics” and “research in mathematics”, since for most users of mathematics those are two very different things.
    $endgroup$
    – Dan Romik
    Jul 3 at 19:32






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    Also when I took analysis courses in uni, I found that I often automatically knew the answers to many of the questions the instructor was asking because I had read Hardy's book on analysis, I don't think it's as simple as 'never read mathematics'.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 3 at 21:14













28












28








28





$begingroup$

Mathematics is not learned by reading books. One becomes a research mathematician by solving problems. Most people need an adviser to recommend a good problem. Then you start thinking and reading what is relevant to your specific problem. General education by reading books with hundreds of pages can be done as a parallel process, but the main emphasis should be on a specific problem. It is a duty of
the adviser to find a problem which does not require too much reading.



There are many examples that demonstrate these principles. Many good mathematicians obtained their first original results before the age of 18 or even much earlier,
at the time when
they learned very little.



Myself, I published my first paper at the age of 18, when I was a second year undergraduate student. I did not know much of mathematics at that time. I do not say that this paper is among my best, and at present I would not publish such a result, but this is irrelevant. The main point I am trying to make is that one has to solve problems, not to read books. It is not necessary that problems you solve in the beginning are new/publishable. But eventually you will obtain new results.
Finding a good adviser is a crucial matter, for most people.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$



Mathematics is not learned by reading books. One becomes a research mathematician by solving problems. Most people need an adviser to recommend a good problem. Then you start thinking and reading what is relevant to your specific problem. General education by reading books with hundreds of pages can be done as a parallel process, but the main emphasis should be on a specific problem. It is a duty of
the adviser to find a problem which does not require too much reading.



There are many examples that demonstrate these principles. Many good mathematicians obtained their first original results before the age of 18 or even much earlier,
at the time when
they learned very little.



Myself, I published my first paper at the age of 18, when I was a second year undergraduate student. I did not know much of mathematics at that time. I do not say that this paper is among my best, and at present I would not publish such a result, but this is irrelevant. The main point I am trying to make is that one has to solve problems, not to read books. It is not necessary that problems you solve in the beginning are new/publishable. But eventually you will obtain new results.
Finding a good adviser is a crucial matter, for most people.







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered Jul 3 at 14:23









Alexandre EremenkoAlexandre Eremenko

53.3k6 gold badges151 silver badges272 bronze badges




53.3k6 gold badges151 silver badges272 bronze badges







  • 4




    $begingroup$
    I read the book to get an idea and then solve the problems in the book. I disagree with you in part: mathematics is partly solving problems but it's also about the ideas to a certain extent. Thanks for your advice, I will maybe start focussing on trying to solve problems as I feel like my knowledge is sufficient to tackle some problems I have in mind which are quite basic.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 3 at 14:29






  • 6




    $begingroup$
    @Tom: My main recommendation is to find a good adviser. In my case, the adviser proposed a research problem (unsolved) and pointed 3 or 4 relevant papers to read.
    $endgroup$
    – Alexandre Eremenko
    Jul 3 at 14:36






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    OK, that's a good idea. I know a research mathematician who has corresponded with me before on a problem they are trying to solve, so I am probably going to email them now with my thoughts on it and asking how we could progress or if they have more recommendations for papers to read.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 3 at 14:39






  • 20




    $begingroup$
    “Mathematics is not learned by reading books.” Well, mathematics as a body of knowledge can be learned with reasonable effectiveness by reading books, and that’s done all the time. Perhaps you meant that the skill of doing research in mathematics can not be learned by reading books? I would happily agree with that statement, but I feel that it’s important to draw a distinction (which may seem artificial to you as an accomplished research mathematician) between “mathematics” and “research in mathematics”, since for most users of mathematics those are two very different things.
    $endgroup$
    – Dan Romik
    Jul 3 at 19:32






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    Also when I took analysis courses in uni, I found that I often automatically knew the answers to many of the questions the instructor was asking because I had read Hardy's book on analysis, I don't think it's as simple as 'never read mathematics'.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 3 at 21:14












  • 4




    $begingroup$
    I read the book to get an idea and then solve the problems in the book. I disagree with you in part: mathematics is partly solving problems but it's also about the ideas to a certain extent. Thanks for your advice, I will maybe start focussing on trying to solve problems as I feel like my knowledge is sufficient to tackle some problems I have in mind which are quite basic.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 3 at 14:29






  • 6




    $begingroup$
    @Tom: My main recommendation is to find a good adviser. In my case, the adviser proposed a research problem (unsolved) and pointed 3 or 4 relevant papers to read.
    $endgroup$
    – Alexandre Eremenko
    Jul 3 at 14:36






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    OK, that's a good idea. I know a research mathematician who has corresponded with me before on a problem they are trying to solve, so I am probably going to email them now with my thoughts on it and asking how we could progress or if they have more recommendations for papers to read.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 3 at 14:39






  • 20




    $begingroup$
    “Mathematics is not learned by reading books.” Well, mathematics as a body of knowledge can be learned with reasonable effectiveness by reading books, and that’s done all the time. Perhaps you meant that the skill of doing research in mathematics can not be learned by reading books? I would happily agree with that statement, but I feel that it’s important to draw a distinction (which may seem artificial to you as an accomplished research mathematician) between “mathematics” and “research in mathematics”, since for most users of mathematics those are two very different things.
    $endgroup$
    – Dan Romik
    Jul 3 at 19:32






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    Also when I took analysis courses in uni, I found that I often automatically knew the answers to many of the questions the instructor was asking because I had read Hardy's book on analysis, I don't think it's as simple as 'never read mathematics'.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 3 at 21:14







4




4




$begingroup$
I read the book to get an idea and then solve the problems in the book. I disagree with you in part: mathematics is partly solving problems but it's also about the ideas to a certain extent. Thanks for your advice, I will maybe start focussing on trying to solve problems as I feel like my knowledge is sufficient to tackle some problems I have in mind which are quite basic.
$endgroup$
– Tom
Jul 3 at 14:29




$begingroup$
I read the book to get an idea and then solve the problems in the book. I disagree with you in part: mathematics is partly solving problems but it's also about the ideas to a certain extent. Thanks for your advice, I will maybe start focussing on trying to solve problems as I feel like my knowledge is sufficient to tackle some problems I have in mind which are quite basic.
$endgroup$
– Tom
Jul 3 at 14:29




6




6




$begingroup$
@Tom: My main recommendation is to find a good adviser. In my case, the adviser proposed a research problem (unsolved) and pointed 3 or 4 relevant papers to read.
$endgroup$
– Alexandre Eremenko
Jul 3 at 14:36




$begingroup$
@Tom: My main recommendation is to find a good adviser. In my case, the adviser proposed a research problem (unsolved) and pointed 3 or 4 relevant papers to read.
$endgroup$
– Alexandre Eremenko
Jul 3 at 14:36




2




2




$begingroup$
OK, that's a good idea. I know a research mathematician who has corresponded with me before on a problem they are trying to solve, so I am probably going to email them now with my thoughts on it and asking how we could progress or if they have more recommendations for papers to read.
$endgroup$
– Tom
Jul 3 at 14:39




$begingroup$
OK, that's a good idea. I know a research mathematician who has corresponded with me before on a problem they are trying to solve, so I am probably going to email them now with my thoughts on it and asking how we could progress or if they have more recommendations for papers to read.
$endgroup$
– Tom
Jul 3 at 14:39




20




20




$begingroup$
“Mathematics is not learned by reading books.” Well, mathematics as a body of knowledge can be learned with reasonable effectiveness by reading books, and that’s done all the time. Perhaps you meant that the skill of doing research in mathematics can not be learned by reading books? I would happily agree with that statement, but I feel that it’s important to draw a distinction (which may seem artificial to you as an accomplished research mathematician) between “mathematics” and “research in mathematics”, since for most users of mathematics those are two very different things.
$endgroup$
– Dan Romik
Jul 3 at 19:32




$begingroup$
“Mathematics is not learned by reading books.” Well, mathematics as a body of knowledge can be learned with reasonable effectiveness by reading books, and that’s done all the time. Perhaps you meant that the skill of doing research in mathematics can not be learned by reading books? I would happily agree with that statement, but I feel that it’s important to draw a distinction (which may seem artificial to you as an accomplished research mathematician) between “mathematics” and “research in mathematics”, since for most users of mathematics those are two very different things.
$endgroup$
– Dan Romik
Jul 3 at 19:32




5




5




$begingroup$
Also when I took analysis courses in uni, I found that I often automatically knew the answers to many of the questions the instructor was asking because I had read Hardy's book on analysis, I don't think it's as simple as 'never read mathematics'.
$endgroup$
– Tom
Jul 3 at 21:14




$begingroup$
Also when I took analysis courses in uni, I found that I often automatically knew the answers to many of the questions the instructor was asking because I had read Hardy's book on analysis, I don't think it's as simple as 'never read mathematics'.
$endgroup$
– Tom
Jul 3 at 21:14











6












$begingroup$

As a partial answer, learn to trust peer review. When you are starting out in graduate-level mathematics you focus on proofs and seldom go beyond statements which can be exhaustively reduced to basic axioms. In some ways that is the ideal of mathematics. But, when you get to the research frontier, you might discover that you need to use a statement which is contained in paper A, which at a crucial step in its proof invokes a result from paper B, which in turn invokes papers C, D and E, ... It could perhaps take months of work to see how that single statement ultimately follows from what you currently know. If you plunged down every such rabbit hole you encountered, it is unlikely that you would ever make progress. Exhaustive background knowledge is not a prerequisite for the creation of new knowledge. You can explore what follows from what is currently known, without first reducing what is currently known to first principles.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Thanks for your advice.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 5 at 15:59















6












$begingroup$

As a partial answer, learn to trust peer review. When you are starting out in graduate-level mathematics you focus on proofs and seldom go beyond statements which can be exhaustively reduced to basic axioms. In some ways that is the ideal of mathematics. But, when you get to the research frontier, you might discover that you need to use a statement which is contained in paper A, which at a crucial step in its proof invokes a result from paper B, which in turn invokes papers C, D and E, ... It could perhaps take months of work to see how that single statement ultimately follows from what you currently know. If you plunged down every such rabbit hole you encountered, it is unlikely that you would ever make progress. Exhaustive background knowledge is not a prerequisite for the creation of new knowledge. You can explore what follows from what is currently known, without first reducing what is currently known to first principles.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Thanks for your advice.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 5 at 15:59













6












6








6





$begingroup$

As a partial answer, learn to trust peer review. When you are starting out in graduate-level mathematics you focus on proofs and seldom go beyond statements which can be exhaustively reduced to basic axioms. In some ways that is the ideal of mathematics. But, when you get to the research frontier, you might discover that you need to use a statement which is contained in paper A, which at a crucial step in its proof invokes a result from paper B, which in turn invokes papers C, D and E, ... It could perhaps take months of work to see how that single statement ultimately follows from what you currently know. If you plunged down every such rabbit hole you encountered, it is unlikely that you would ever make progress. Exhaustive background knowledge is not a prerequisite for the creation of new knowledge. You can explore what follows from what is currently known, without first reducing what is currently known to first principles.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



As a partial answer, learn to trust peer review. When you are starting out in graduate-level mathematics you focus on proofs and seldom go beyond statements which can be exhaustively reduced to basic axioms. In some ways that is the ideal of mathematics. But, when you get to the research frontier, you might discover that you need to use a statement which is contained in paper A, which at a crucial step in its proof invokes a result from paper B, which in turn invokes papers C, D and E, ... It could perhaps take months of work to see how that single statement ultimately follows from what you currently know. If you plunged down every such rabbit hole you encountered, it is unlikely that you would ever make progress. Exhaustive background knowledge is not a prerequisite for the creation of new knowledge. You can explore what follows from what is currently known, without first reducing what is currently known to first principles.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Jul 5 at 16:00

























answered Jul 5 at 11:57









John ColemanJohn Coleman

1614 bronze badges




1614 bronze badges











  • $begingroup$
    Thanks for your advice.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 5 at 15:59
















  • $begingroup$
    Thanks for your advice.
    $endgroup$
    – Tom
    Jul 5 at 15:59















$begingroup$
Thanks for your advice.
$endgroup$
– Tom
Jul 5 at 15:59




$begingroup$
Thanks for your advice.
$endgroup$
– Tom
Jul 5 at 15:59

















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