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Who goes first? Person disembarking bus or the bicycle?
At Brisbane King George Square bus station, how do you find out where your bus goes from?Is riding a bicycle in the parks of Glasgow allowed?What happens if my luggage goes over the weight limit?Can I cross the US border by bus the first time with a newly-issued visa?Is it allowed in Amsterdam to give a ride on bicycle to another personIs there a bus or train that goes from Bangkok to Ho Chi Minh City?Priority on the bicycle path in the NetherlandsCycling tour in Japan: Buying a bicycle for a tall personRent a racing bicycle in the Eifel, GermanyWho has right-of-way at this stop sign; left-turner who arrived first, or non-turner who arrived later?
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In Greece, where I am from, we don't have bicycles as a means of going to work, like for example in Germany (what a paradox given the weather!), the country I visit now.
So, there are bicycle lanes on the pavement, to the side of the street. When the bus stops, you disembark right in a bicycle land. Is there a rule to who has priority? The passenger or the rider?
I would expect the riders to be aware that a passenger is about to disembark, and thus slow down or slide, regardless of any rule. However, currently I find myself looking across both directions before disembarking, since I am mostly afraid of the high speed e-bicycles, something that if I have priority, may frustrate the others behind me.
germany buses regulations bicycles bavaria
edited Jul 4 at 17:01
Willeke♦
32.6k12 gold badges90 silver badges168 bronze badges
asked Jul 4 at 13:21
gsamarasgsamaras
2,9312 gold badges23 silver badges53 bronze badges
|
show 3 more comments
In Greece, where I am from, we don't have bicycles as a means of going to work, like for example in Germany (what a paradox given the weather!), the country I visit now.
So, there are bicycle lanes on the pavement, to the side of the street. When the bus stops, you disembark right in a bicycle land. Is there a rule to who has priority? The passenger or the rider?
I would expect the riders to be aware that a passenger is about to disembark, and thus slow down or slide, regardless of any rule. However, currently I find myself looking across both directions before disembarking, since I am mostly afraid of the high speed e-bicycles, something that if I have priority, may frustrate the others behind me.
germany buses regulations bicycles bavaria
edited Jul 4 at 17:01
Willeke♦
32.6k12 gold badges90 silver badges168 bronze badges
asked Jul 4 at 13:21
gsamarasgsamaras
2,9312 gold badges23 silver badges53 bronze badges
7
Where you're not aware of the law, a good rule of thumb is that faster traffic should yield to slower traffic, since faster traffic has more potential to cause injury. Even if a pedestrian is illegally crossing in the middle of a busy street, it doesn't give drivers the right to hit him.
– Kyralessa
Jul 5 at 6:30
@Kyralessa thanks, I will keep that in mind!
– gsamaras
Jul 5 at 8:06
3
why a paradox? Greek weather is terrible to cycle in. Nobody wants to cycle on 35 degrees, get sunburned and sweat like a pig.
– Travel guy
Jul 6 at 10:21
1
"I would expect the riders to be aware..." -- you should not. Bicyclists are notorious for violating traffic rules. You should not assume they'll stop on a red traffic light, you should not assume they'll not ride on the pedestrian walk (children up to 11 years have to, but otherwise it's forbidden). And no, you shouldn't assume they won't run into you getting off the bus, and then swear at you for "not being careful". There's no license plate on a bike, so the risk of being caught is low. The irony is that if as car driver, you kill one of them ignoring a red light, it's your fault.
– Damon
Jul 7 at 15:22
1
@Damon, well, I live down in the corner of Germany near Basel. Perhaps down here cyclists are more polite. Maybe it's the Swiss influence. :D
– Kyralessa
2 days ago
|
show 3 more comments
In Greece, where I am from, we don't have bicycles as a means of going to work, like for example in Germany (what a paradox given the weather!), the country I visit now.
So, there are bicycle lanes on the pavement, to the side of the street. When the bus stops, you disembark right in a bicycle land. Is there a rule to who has priority? The passenger or the rider?
I would expect the riders to be aware that a passenger is about to disembark, and thus slow down or slide, regardless of any rule. However, currently I find myself looking across both directions before disembarking, since I am mostly afraid of the high speed e-bicycles, something that if I have priority, may frustrate the others behind me.
germany buses regulations bicycles bavaria
edited Jul 4 at 17:01
Willeke♦
32.6k12 gold badges90 silver badges168 bronze badges
asked Jul 4 at 13:21
gsamarasgsamaras
2,9312 gold badges23 silver badges53 bronze badges
In Greece, where I am from, we don't have bicycles as a means of going to work, like for example in Germany (what a paradox given the weather!), the country I visit now.
So, there are bicycle lanes on the pavement, to the side of the street. When the bus stops, you disembark right in a bicycle land. Is there a rule to who has priority? The passenger or the rider?
I would expect the riders to be aware that a passenger is about to disembark, and thus slow down or slide, regardless of any rule. However, currently I find myself looking across both directions before disembarking, since I am mostly afraid of the high speed e-bicycles, something that if I have priority, may frustrate the others behind me.
germany buses regulations bicycles bavaria
germany buses regulations bicycles bavaria
edited Jul 4 at 17:01
Willeke♦
32.6k12 gold badges90 silver badges168 bronze badges
asked Jul 4 at 13:21
gsamarasgsamaras
2,9312 gold badges23 silver badges53 bronze badges
edited Jul 4 at 17:01
Willeke♦
32.6k12 gold badges90 silver badges168 bronze badges
asked Jul 4 at 13:21
gsamarasgsamaras
2,9312 gold badges23 silver badges53 bronze badges
edited Jul 4 at 17:01
Willeke♦
32.6k12 gold badges90 silver badges168 bronze badges
edited Jul 4 at 17:01
Willeke♦
32.6k12 gold badges90 silver badges168 bronze badges
edited Jul 4 at 17:01
Willeke♦
32.6k12 gold badges90 silver badges168 bronze badges
32.6k12 gold badges90 silver badges168 bronze badges
asked Jul 4 at 13:21
gsamarasgsamaras
2,9312 gold badges23 silver badges53 bronze badges
asked Jul 4 at 13:21
gsamarasgsamaras
2,9312 gold badges23 silver badges53 bronze badges
asked Jul 4 at 13:21
gsamarasgsamaras
2,9312 gold badges23 silver badges53 bronze badges
2,9312 gold badges23 silver badges53 bronze badges
7
Where you're not aware of the law, a good rule of thumb is that faster traffic should yield to slower traffic, since faster traffic has more potential to cause injury. Even if a pedestrian is illegally crossing in the middle of a busy street, it doesn't give drivers the right to hit him.
– Kyralessa
Jul 5 at 6:30
@Kyralessa thanks, I will keep that in mind!
– gsamaras
Jul 5 at 8:06
3
why a paradox? Greek weather is terrible to cycle in. Nobody wants to cycle on 35 degrees, get sunburned and sweat like a pig.
– Travel guy
Jul 6 at 10:21
1
"I would expect the riders to be aware..." -- you should not. Bicyclists are notorious for violating traffic rules. You should not assume they'll stop on a red traffic light, you should not assume they'll not ride on the pedestrian walk (children up to 11 years have to, but otherwise it's forbidden). And no, you shouldn't assume they won't run into you getting off the bus, and then swear at you for "not being careful". There's no license plate on a bike, so the risk of being caught is low. The irony is that if as car driver, you kill one of them ignoring a red light, it's your fault.
– Damon
Jul 7 at 15:22
1
@Damon, well, I live down in the corner of Germany near Basel. Perhaps down here cyclists are more polite. Maybe it's the Swiss influence. :D
– Kyralessa
2 days ago
|
show 3 more comments
7
Where you're not aware of the law, a good rule of thumb is that faster traffic should yield to slower traffic, since faster traffic has more potential to cause injury. Even if a pedestrian is illegally crossing in the middle of a busy street, it doesn't give drivers the right to hit him.
– Kyralessa
Jul 5 at 6:30
@Kyralessa thanks, I will keep that in mind!
– gsamaras
Jul 5 at 8:06
3
why a paradox? Greek weather is terrible to cycle in. Nobody wants to cycle on 35 degrees, get sunburned and sweat like a pig.
– Travel guy
Jul 6 at 10:21
1
"I would expect the riders to be aware..." -- you should not. Bicyclists are notorious for violating traffic rules. You should not assume they'll stop on a red traffic light, you should not assume they'll not ride on the pedestrian walk (children up to 11 years have to, but otherwise it's forbidden). And no, you shouldn't assume they won't run into you getting off the bus, and then swear at you for "not being careful". There's no license plate on a bike, so the risk of being caught is low. The irony is that if as car driver, you kill one of them ignoring a red light, it's your fault.
– Damon
Jul 7 at 15:22
1
@Damon, well, I live down in the corner of Germany near Basel. Perhaps down here cyclists are more polite. Maybe it's the Swiss influence. :D
– Kyralessa
2 days ago
7
7
Where you're not aware of the law, a good rule of thumb is that faster traffic should yield to slower traffic, since faster traffic has more potential to cause injury. Even if a pedestrian is illegally crossing in the middle of a busy street, it doesn't give drivers the right to hit him.
– Kyralessa
Jul 5 at 6:30
Where you're not aware of the law, a good rule of thumb is that faster traffic should yield to slower traffic, since faster traffic has more potential to cause injury. Even if a pedestrian is illegally crossing in the middle of a busy street, it doesn't give drivers the right to hit him.
– Kyralessa
Jul 5 at 6:30
@Kyralessa thanks, I will keep that in mind!
– gsamaras
Jul 5 at 8:06
@Kyralessa thanks, I will keep that in mind!
– gsamaras
Jul 5 at 8:06
3
3
why a paradox? Greek weather is terrible to cycle in. Nobody wants to cycle on 35 degrees, get sunburned and sweat like a pig.
– Travel guy
Jul 6 at 10:21
why a paradox? Greek weather is terrible to cycle in. Nobody wants to cycle on 35 degrees, get sunburned and sweat like a pig.
– Travel guy
Jul 6 at 10:21
1
1
"I would expect the riders to be aware..." -- you should not. Bicyclists are notorious for violating traffic rules. You should not assume they'll stop on a red traffic light, you should not assume they'll not ride on the pedestrian walk (children up to 11 years have to, but otherwise it's forbidden). And no, you shouldn't assume they won't run into you getting off the bus, and then swear at you for "not being careful". There's no license plate on a bike, so the risk of being caught is low. The irony is that if as car driver, you kill one of them ignoring a red light, it's your fault.
– Damon
Jul 7 at 15:22
"I would expect the riders to be aware..." -- you should not. Bicyclists are notorious for violating traffic rules. You should not assume they'll stop on a red traffic light, you should not assume they'll not ride on the pedestrian walk (children up to 11 years have to, but otherwise it's forbidden). And no, you shouldn't assume they won't run into you getting off the bus, and then swear at you for "not being careful". There's no license plate on a bike, so the risk of being caught is low. The irony is that if as car driver, you kill one of them ignoring a red light, it's your fault.
– Damon
Jul 7 at 15:22
1
1
@Damon, well, I live down in the corner of Germany near Basel. Perhaps down here cyclists are more polite. Maybe it's the Swiss influence. :D
– Kyralessa
2 days ago
@Damon, well, I live down in the corner of Germany near Basel. Perhaps down here cyclists are more polite. Maybe it's the Swiss influence. :D
– Kyralessa
2 days ago
|
show 3 more comments
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
The bicycle riders have to be careful and wait if necessary.
Here is a German newspaper article on the subject. The basis for the rule is § 20 of the German traffic regulations (StVO), whose first two paragraphs translate roughly to:
(1) Busses, trams, and school busses, which stop at designated
stopping points (sign number 224), may only be passed with care.
(2) When bus riders embark or disembark, the bus can only be passed on the right at walking speed and at a distance that excludes the possibility of endangering passengers. It is also forbidden to obstruct them. If needed, one has to wait.
Note that walking speed is defined to be 3-6 km/h. Overtaking a bus on the left is a bit different - the rules then depend on whether the warning lights are flashing or not.
answered Jul 4 at 13:37
DCTLibDCTLib
8,82927 silver badges43 bronze badges
2
Is this different if there is a dedicated platform area between the bike lane and the bus?
– Henning Makholm
Jul 4 at 14:14
37
What the law says is right, and what good health and safety practice demands, are often two different things: In cases where riders are supposed to yield by law, it is still good practice to assume they might not, and to pay attention. Being 'in the right' does not help mend broken bones.
– TheLuckless
Jul 4 at 21:58
4
@gerrit What do you mean by "should not be flashing"? Busses with flashing warning lights have privilege, see §20 StVO (3) and (4). (Although I admit that especially oncoming traffic is notorious for ignoring this regulation.)
– Dubu
Jul 5 at 7:48
1
@gerrit: In addition to what Dubu explained: buses flashing warning lights is reserved for stops with particular dangers. And it's not up to the bus driver to decide this, this is a decision by the Land. This is somewhat rare outside school bus routes.
– cbeleites
Jul 5 at 16:02
1
@Dubu Ok, I have never seen this and was not aware it existed outside the USA (I've only ever seen buses indicating left or right; I've only seen them flashing when broken down)
– gerrit
Jul 5 at 18:52
|
show 1 more comment
German traffic code gives transit passengers special priority, all traffic including bicycles may only pass the vehicle on the right at a walking pace and need to yield to passengers alighting or embarking.
(From a detailed explanation this website [in German].)
answered Jul 4 at 13:41
CarlCarl
9,6103 gold badges28 silver badges62 bronze badges
add a comment |
Being a cyclist as well as a bus user, I always expect the user of the other mode of traffic to not be aware of what is going on at the street.
Where the bus stop is right at the bike lane, so the people step out of the bus in front of the cyclists, you have to slow down when there is a bus there and stop before the doors open, as the people will need to get out of the bus efficiently. (But as a bus passenger, still look for cyclist as there is always the 'nasty word here' that ignores the facts.)
If there is a little of a platform between the bus and the cycle path, it is less risky to step out of the bus and away from the door and not be hit by the cyclists.
But as a cyclist you should still give way to people getting out of the bus and walking toward the (stopped) bus. See the other answers for (the link to) the legal texts.
answered Jul 4 at 17:13
Willeke♦Willeke
32.6k12 gold badges90 silver badges168 bronze badges
add a comment |
Generally speaking, bicycles are classed as vehicles. And generally, vehicles must yield to pedestrians doing normal pedestrian things that they are entitled to do, like use a bus stop. So the pecking order is
Boats > Trains > Pedestrians > Bicycles > Motor Vehicles
- Drawbridges know large boats are coming, and have plenty of time to signal trains to get stopped
- Trains cannot stop, so peds and vehicles MUST wait
- Vehicles must yield to pedestrians anywhere pedestrians belong
- Bicycles are legitimate traffic and share roads with motor vehicles, except they have priority in bike lanes obviously. Laws favor bicycles because physics does not.
answered Jul 5 at 0:09
HarperHarper
16.3k3 gold badges28 silver badges75 bronze badges
5
Dangerous assumption that other traffic must yield to pedestrians. In most cases that is not true. And pedestrians are the weakest and most easily damaged in accidents.
– Willeke♦
Jul 5 at 4:21
3
@Willeke A car never has the right to hit a pedestrian, no matter how illegally the pedestrian is crossing. But the pedestrian can certainly be subject to a fine for crossing illegally. I hope that clears things up.
– Kyralessa
Jul 5 at 8:43
3
@Kyralessa Not necessarily. I am very familiar with a story of a particular pedestrian who was hit by a speeding car while crossing a street in the US, broke the car's windshield and was briefly on top of the car, and the driver left before police arrived. The pedestrian was permanently injured. Police refused to do any investigation because the car driver did in practice have the right to hit the pedestrian. The US has a very car-centric culture, giving drivers more rights than in other countries.
– WBT
Jul 5 at 12:59
3
@WBT [citation needed]. A car never has the "right" to hit a pedestrian. The police may decide (or a judge may) that hitting the pedestrian was unavoidable, but that doesn't mean hitting a pedestrian is somehow the right thing to do.
– Kyralessa
Jul 5 at 13:08
3
Lets agree to disagree.
– Willeke♦
Jul 5 at 14:40
|
show 8 more comments
I rode bicycles for 10 years earlier in my life as my primary mode of transportation a long while ago, and pedestrians always have the right of way over any other conveyance.
And, the purpose is that... any other kind of conveyance could cause more damage. A bike rider, a skate boarder, a car, a motorcycle.. all of those things are potentially moving faster and have more mass, and thus could cause more damage.. especially to someone who may not be physically capable of moving fast enough out of the way (eg: an elderly pedestrian).
That being said... I have also ridden motorcycles for 10 years, and here's the order of operation I mentally follow every time I ride in order to keep myself alive..
1) larger object (that has more mass and could do more damage to me) has the right of way.. every time, even if they're breaking the law
2) if I have to break the law to save my life, I will
3) obey laws if possible
So, if a truck is changing lanes into me illegally while not looking... I get out of their way. I would rather be alive while watching them break the law then be dead or in a hospital bed having my wife argue about how the other person broke the law and I had the right of way.
So, as a pedestrian.. you would have the right of way getting off the bus, but assume idiots all around you are not paying attention and / or don't know the law and can potentially kill you.
Ultimately, you are responsible for your own safety.
answered Jul 5 at 18:49
blahblahblahblah
111 bronze badge
Sure, defensive behavior is always recommended, thanks!
– gsamaras
Jul 5 at 19:05
add a comment |
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5 Answers
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The bicycle riders have to be careful and wait if necessary.
Here is a German newspaper article on the subject. The basis for the rule is § 20 of the German traffic regulations (StVO), whose first two paragraphs translate roughly to:
(1) Busses, trams, and school busses, which stop at designated
stopping points (sign number 224), may only be passed with care.
(2) When bus riders embark or disembark, the bus can only be passed on the right at walking speed and at a distance that excludes the possibility of endangering passengers. It is also forbidden to obstruct them. If needed, one has to wait.
Note that walking speed is defined to be 3-6 km/h. Overtaking a bus on the left is a bit different - the rules then depend on whether the warning lights are flashing or not.
answered Jul 4 at 13:37
DCTLibDCTLib
8,82927 silver badges43 bronze badges
2
Is this different if there is a dedicated platform area between the bike lane and the bus?
– Henning Makholm
Jul 4 at 14:14
37
What the law says is right, and what good health and safety practice demands, are often two different things: In cases where riders are supposed to yield by law, it is still good practice to assume they might not, and to pay attention. Being 'in the right' does not help mend broken bones.
– TheLuckless
Jul 4 at 21:58
4
@gerrit What do you mean by "should not be flashing"? Busses with flashing warning lights have privilege, see §20 StVO (3) and (4). (Although I admit that especially oncoming traffic is notorious for ignoring this regulation.)
– Dubu
Jul 5 at 7:48
1
@gerrit: In addition to what Dubu explained: buses flashing warning lights is reserved for stops with particular dangers. And it's not up to the bus driver to decide this, this is a decision by the Land. This is somewhat rare outside school bus routes.
– cbeleites
Jul 5 at 16:02
1
@Dubu Ok, I have never seen this and was not aware it existed outside the USA (I've only ever seen buses indicating left or right; I've only seen them flashing when broken down)
– gerrit
Jul 5 at 18:52
|
show 1 more comment
The bicycle riders have to be careful and wait if necessary.
Here is a German newspaper article on the subject. The basis for the rule is § 20 of the German traffic regulations (StVO), whose first two paragraphs translate roughly to:
(1) Busses, trams, and school busses, which stop at designated
stopping points (sign number 224), may only be passed with care.
(2) When bus riders embark or disembark, the bus can only be passed on the right at walking speed and at a distance that excludes the possibility of endangering passengers. It is also forbidden to obstruct them. If needed, one has to wait.
Note that walking speed is defined to be 3-6 km/h. Overtaking a bus on the left is a bit different - the rules then depend on whether the warning lights are flashing or not.
answered Jul 4 at 13:37
DCTLibDCTLib
8,82927 silver badges43 bronze badges
2
Is this different if there is a dedicated platform area between the bike lane and the bus?
– Henning Makholm
Jul 4 at 14:14
37
What the law says is right, and what good health and safety practice demands, are often two different things: In cases where riders are supposed to yield by law, it is still good practice to assume they might not, and to pay attention. Being 'in the right' does not help mend broken bones.
– TheLuckless
Jul 4 at 21:58
4
@gerrit What do you mean by "should not be flashing"? Busses with flashing warning lights have privilege, see §20 StVO (3) and (4). (Although I admit that especially oncoming traffic is notorious for ignoring this regulation.)
– Dubu
Jul 5 at 7:48
1
@gerrit: In addition to what Dubu explained: buses flashing warning lights is reserved for stops with particular dangers. And it's not up to the bus driver to decide this, this is a decision by the Land. This is somewhat rare outside school bus routes.
– cbeleites
Jul 5 at 16:02
1
@Dubu Ok, I have never seen this and was not aware it existed outside the USA (I've only ever seen buses indicating left or right; I've only seen them flashing when broken down)
– gerrit
Jul 5 at 18:52
|
show 1 more comment
The bicycle riders have to be careful and wait if necessary.
Here is a German newspaper article on the subject. The basis for the rule is § 20 of the German traffic regulations (StVO), whose first two paragraphs translate roughly to:
(1) Busses, trams, and school busses, which stop at designated
stopping points (sign number 224), may only be passed with care.
(2) When bus riders embark or disembark, the bus can only be passed on the right at walking speed and at a distance that excludes the possibility of endangering passengers. It is also forbidden to obstruct them. If needed, one has to wait.
Note that walking speed is defined to be 3-6 km/h. Overtaking a bus on the left is a bit different - the rules then depend on whether the warning lights are flashing or not.
answered Jul 4 at 13:37
DCTLibDCTLib
8,82927 silver badges43 bronze badges
The bicycle riders have to be careful and wait if necessary.
Here is a German newspaper article on the subject. The basis for the rule is § 20 of the German traffic regulations (StVO), whose first two paragraphs translate roughly to:
(1) Busses, trams, and school busses, which stop at designated
stopping points (sign number 224), may only be passed with care.
(2) When bus riders embark or disembark, the bus can only be passed on the right at walking speed and at a distance that excludes the possibility of endangering passengers. It is also forbidden to obstruct them. If needed, one has to wait.
Note that walking speed is defined to be 3-6 km/h. Overtaking a bus on the left is a bit different - the rules then depend on whether the warning lights are flashing or not.
answered Jul 4 at 13:37
DCTLibDCTLib
8,82927 silver badges43 bronze badges
edited Jul 4 at 13:47
answered Jul 4 at 13:37
DCTLibDCTLib
8,82927 silver badges43 bronze badges
answered Jul 4 at 13:37
DCTLibDCTLib
8,82927 silver badges43 bronze badges
answered Jul 4 at 13:37
DCTLibDCTLib
8,82927 silver badges43 bronze badges
8,82927 silver badges43 bronze badges
2
Is this different if there is a dedicated platform area between the bike lane and the bus?
– Henning Makholm
Jul 4 at 14:14
37
What the law says is right, and what good health and safety practice demands, are often two different things: In cases where riders are supposed to yield by law, it is still good practice to assume they might not, and to pay attention. Being 'in the right' does not help mend broken bones.
– TheLuckless
Jul 4 at 21:58
4
@gerrit What do you mean by "should not be flashing"? Busses with flashing warning lights have privilege, see §20 StVO (3) and (4). (Although I admit that especially oncoming traffic is notorious for ignoring this regulation.)
– Dubu
Jul 5 at 7:48
1
@gerrit: In addition to what Dubu explained: buses flashing warning lights is reserved for stops with particular dangers. And it's not up to the bus driver to decide this, this is a decision by the Land. This is somewhat rare outside school bus routes.
– cbeleites
Jul 5 at 16:02
1
@Dubu Ok, I have never seen this and was not aware it existed outside the USA (I've only ever seen buses indicating left or right; I've only seen them flashing when broken down)
– gerrit
Jul 5 at 18:52
|
show 1 more comment
2
Is this different if there is a dedicated platform area between the bike lane and the bus?
– Henning Makholm
Jul 4 at 14:14
37
What the law says is right, and what good health and safety practice demands, are often two different things: In cases where riders are supposed to yield by law, it is still good practice to assume they might not, and to pay attention. Being 'in the right' does not help mend broken bones.
– TheLuckless
Jul 4 at 21:58
4
@gerrit What do you mean by "should not be flashing"? Busses with flashing warning lights have privilege, see §20 StVO (3) and (4). (Although I admit that especially oncoming traffic is notorious for ignoring this regulation.)
– Dubu
Jul 5 at 7:48
1
@gerrit: In addition to what Dubu explained: buses flashing warning lights is reserved for stops with particular dangers. And it's not up to the bus driver to decide this, this is a decision by the Land. This is somewhat rare outside school bus routes.
– cbeleites
Jul 5 at 16:02
1
@Dubu Ok, I have never seen this and was not aware it existed outside the USA (I've only ever seen buses indicating left or right; I've only seen them flashing when broken down)
– gerrit
Jul 5 at 18:52
2
2
Is this different if there is a dedicated platform area between the bike lane and the bus?
– Henning Makholm
Jul 4 at 14:14
Is this different if there is a dedicated platform area between the bike lane and the bus?
– Henning Makholm
Jul 4 at 14:14
37
37
What the law says is right, and what good health and safety practice demands, are often two different things: In cases where riders are supposed to yield by law, it is still good practice to assume they might not, and to pay attention. Being 'in the right' does not help mend broken bones.
– TheLuckless
Jul 4 at 21:58
What the law says is right, and what good health and safety practice demands, are often two different things: In cases where riders are supposed to yield by law, it is still good practice to assume they might not, and to pay attention. Being 'in the right' does not help mend broken bones.
– TheLuckless
Jul 4 at 21:58
4
4
@gerrit What do you mean by "should not be flashing"? Busses with flashing warning lights have privilege, see §20 StVO (3) and (4). (Although I admit that especially oncoming traffic is notorious for ignoring this regulation.)
– Dubu
Jul 5 at 7:48
@gerrit What do you mean by "should not be flashing"? Busses with flashing warning lights have privilege, see §20 StVO (3) and (4). (Although I admit that especially oncoming traffic is notorious for ignoring this regulation.)
– Dubu
Jul 5 at 7:48
1
1
@gerrit: In addition to what Dubu explained: buses flashing warning lights is reserved for stops with particular dangers. And it's not up to the bus driver to decide this, this is a decision by the Land. This is somewhat rare outside school bus routes.
– cbeleites
Jul 5 at 16:02
@gerrit: In addition to what Dubu explained: buses flashing warning lights is reserved for stops with particular dangers. And it's not up to the bus driver to decide this, this is a decision by the Land. This is somewhat rare outside school bus routes.
– cbeleites
Jul 5 at 16:02
1
1
@Dubu Ok, I have never seen this and was not aware it existed outside the USA (I've only ever seen buses indicating left or right; I've only seen them flashing when broken down)
– gerrit
Jul 5 at 18:52
@Dubu Ok, I have never seen this and was not aware it existed outside the USA (I've only ever seen buses indicating left or right; I've only seen them flashing when broken down)
– gerrit
Jul 5 at 18:52
|
show 1 more comment
German traffic code gives transit passengers special priority, all traffic including bicycles may only pass the vehicle on the right at a walking pace and need to yield to passengers alighting or embarking.
(From a detailed explanation this website [in German].)
answered Jul 4 at 13:41
CarlCarl
9,6103 gold badges28 silver badges62 bronze badges
add a comment |
German traffic code gives transit passengers special priority, all traffic including bicycles may only pass the vehicle on the right at a walking pace and need to yield to passengers alighting or embarking.
(From a detailed explanation this website [in German].)
answered Jul 4 at 13:41
CarlCarl
9,6103 gold badges28 silver badges62 bronze badges
add a comment |
German traffic code gives transit passengers special priority, all traffic including bicycles may only pass the vehicle on the right at a walking pace and need to yield to passengers alighting or embarking.
(From a detailed explanation this website [in German].)
answered Jul 4 at 13:41
CarlCarl
9,6103 gold badges28 silver badges62 bronze badges
German traffic code gives transit passengers special priority, all traffic including bicycles may only pass the vehicle on the right at a walking pace and need to yield to passengers alighting or embarking.
(From a detailed explanation this website [in German].)
answered Jul 4 at 13:41
CarlCarl
9,6103 gold badges28 silver badges62 bronze badges
answered Jul 4 at 13:41
CarlCarl
9,6103 gold badges28 silver badges62 bronze badges
answered Jul 4 at 13:41
CarlCarl
9,6103 gold badges28 silver badges62 bronze badges
answered Jul 4 at 13:41
CarlCarl
9,6103 gold badges28 silver badges62 bronze badges
9,6103 gold badges28 silver badges62 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
Being a cyclist as well as a bus user, I always expect the user of the other mode of traffic to not be aware of what is going on at the street.
Where the bus stop is right at the bike lane, so the people step out of the bus in front of the cyclists, you have to slow down when there is a bus there and stop before the doors open, as the people will need to get out of the bus efficiently. (But as a bus passenger, still look for cyclist as there is always the 'nasty word here' that ignores the facts.)
If there is a little of a platform between the bus and the cycle path, it is less risky to step out of the bus and away from the door and not be hit by the cyclists.
But as a cyclist you should still give way to people getting out of the bus and walking toward the (stopped) bus. See the other answers for (the link to) the legal texts.
answered Jul 4 at 17:13
Willeke♦Willeke
32.6k12 gold badges90 silver badges168 bronze badges
add a comment |
Being a cyclist as well as a bus user, I always expect the user of the other mode of traffic to not be aware of what is going on at the street.
Where the bus stop is right at the bike lane, so the people step out of the bus in front of the cyclists, you have to slow down when there is a bus there and stop before the doors open, as the people will need to get out of the bus efficiently. (But as a bus passenger, still look for cyclist as there is always the 'nasty word here' that ignores the facts.)
If there is a little of a platform between the bus and the cycle path, it is less risky to step out of the bus and away from the door and not be hit by the cyclists.
But as a cyclist you should still give way to people getting out of the bus and walking toward the (stopped) bus. See the other answers for (the link to) the legal texts.
answered Jul 4 at 17:13
Willeke♦Willeke
32.6k12 gold badges90 silver badges168 bronze badges
add a comment |
Being a cyclist as well as a bus user, I always expect the user of the other mode of traffic to not be aware of what is going on at the street.
Where the bus stop is right at the bike lane, so the people step out of the bus in front of the cyclists, you have to slow down when there is a bus there and stop before the doors open, as the people will need to get out of the bus efficiently. (But as a bus passenger, still look for cyclist as there is always the 'nasty word here' that ignores the facts.)
If there is a little of a platform between the bus and the cycle path, it is less risky to step out of the bus and away from the door and not be hit by the cyclists.
But as a cyclist you should still give way to people getting out of the bus and walking toward the (stopped) bus. See the other answers for (the link to) the legal texts.
answered Jul 4 at 17:13
Willeke♦Willeke
32.6k12 gold badges90 silver badges168 bronze badges
Being a cyclist as well as a bus user, I always expect the user of the other mode of traffic to not be aware of what is going on at the street.
Where the bus stop is right at the bike lane, so the people step out of the bus in front of the cyclists, you have to slow down when there is a bus there and stop before the doors open, as the people will need to get out of the bus efficiently. (But as a bus passenger, still look for cyclist as there is always the 'nasty word here' that ignores the facts.)
If there is a little of a platform between the bus and the cycle path, it is less risky to step out of the bus and away from the door and not be hit by the cyclists.
But as a cyclist you should still give way to people getting out of the bus and walking toward the (stopped) bus. See the other answers for (the link to) the legal texts.
answered Jul 4 at 17:13
Willeke♦Willeke
32.6k12 gold badges90 silver badges168 bronze badges
answered Jul 4 at 17:13
Willeke♦Willeke
32.6k12 gold badges90 silver badges168 bronze badges
answered Jul 4 at 17:13
Willeke♦Willeke
32.6k12 gold badges90 silver badges168 bronze badges
answered Jul 4 at 17:13
Willeke♦Willeke
32.6k12 gold badges90 silver badges168 bronze badges
32.6k12 gold badges90 silver badges168 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
Generally speaking, bicycles are classed as vehicles. And generally, vehicles must yield to pedestrians doing normal pedestrian things that they are entitled to do, like use a bus stop. So the pecking order is
Boats > Trains > Pedestrians > Bicycles > Motor Vehicles
- Drawbridges know large boats are coming, and have plenty of time to signal trains to get stopped
- Trains cannot stop, so peds and vehicles MUST wait
- Vehicles must yield to pedestrians anywhere pedestrians belong
- Bicycles are legitimate traffic and share roads with motor vehicles, except they have priority in bike lanes obviously. Laws favor bicycles because physics does not.
answered Jul 5 at 0:09
HarperHarper
16.3k3 gold badges28 silver badges75 bronze badges
5
Dangerous assumption that other traffic must yield to pedestrians. In most cases that is not true. And pedestrians are the weakest and most easily damaged in accidents.
– Willeke♦
Jul 5 at 4:21
3
@Willeke A car never has the right to hit a pedestrian, no matter how illegally the pedestrian is crossing. But the pedestrian can certainly be subject to a fine for crossing illegally. I hope that clears things up.
– Kyralessa
Jul 5 at 8:43
3
@Kyralessa Not necessarily. I am very familiar with a story of a particular pedestrian who was hit by a speeding car while crossing a street in the US, broke the car's windshield and was briefly on top of the car, and the driver left before police arrived. The pedestrian was permanently injured. Police refused to do any investigation because the car driver did in practice have the right to hit the pedestrian. The US has a very car-centric culture, giving drivers more rights than in other countries.
– WBT
Jul 5 at 12:59
3
@WBT [citation needed]. A car never has the "right" to hit a pedestrian. The police may decide (or a judge may) that hitting the pedestrian was unavoidable, but that doesn't mean hitting a pedestrian is somehow the right thing to do.
– Kyralessa
Jul 5 at 13:08
3
Lets agree to disagree.
– Willeke♦
Jul 5 at 14:40
|
show 8 more comments
Generally speaking, bicycles are classed as vehicles. And generally, vehicles must yield to pedestrians doing normal pedestrian things that they are entitled to do, like use a bus stop. So the pecking order is
Boats > Trains > Pedestrians > Bicycles > Motor Vehicles
- Drawbridges know large boats are coming, and have plenty of time to signal trains to get stopped
- Trains cannot stop, so peds and vehicles MUST wait
- Vehicles must yield to pedestrians anywhere pedestrians belong
- Bicycles are legitimate traffic and share roads with motor vehicles, except they have priority in bike lanes obviously. Laws favor bicycles because physics does not.
answered Jul 5 at 0:09
HarperHarper
16.3k3 gold badges28 silver badges75 bronze badges
5
Dangerous assumption that other traffic must yield to pedestrians. In most cases that is not true. And pedestrians are the weakest and most easily damaged in accidents.
– Willeke♦
Jul 5 at 4:21
3
@Willeke A car never has the right to hit a pedestrian, no matter how illegally the pedestrian is crossing. But the pedestrian can certainly be subject to a fine for crossing illegally. I hope that clears things up.
– Kyralessa
Jul 5 at 8:43
3
@Kyralessa Not necessarily. I am very familiar with a story of a particular pedestrian who was hit by a speeding car while crossing a street in the US, broke the car's windshield and was briefly on top of the car, and the driver left before police arrived. The pedestrian was permanently injured. Police refused to do any investigation because the car driver did in practice have the right to hit the pedestrian. The US has a very car-centric culture, giving drivers more rights than in other countries.
– WBT
Jul 5 at 12:59
3
@WBT [citation needed]. A car never has the "right" to hit a pedestrian. The police may decide (or a judge may) that hitting the pedestrian was unavoidable, but that doesn't mean hitting a pedestrian is somehow the right thing to do.
– Kyralessa
Jul 5 at 13:08
3
Lets agree to disagree.
– Willeke♦
Jul 5 at 14:40
|
show 8 more comments
Generally speaking, bicycles are classed as vehicles. And generally, vehicles must yield to pedestrians doing normal pedestrian things that they are entitled to do, like use a bus stop. So the pecking order is
Boats > Trains > Pedestrians > Bicycles > Motor Vehicles
- Drawbridges know large boats are coming, and have plenty of time to signal trains to get stopped
- Trains cannot stop, so peds and vehicles MUST wait
- Vehicles must yield to pedestrians anywhere pedestrians belong
- Bicycles are legitimate traffic and share roads with motor vehicles, except they have priority in bike lanes obviously. Laws favor bicycles because physics does not.
answered Jul 5 at 0:09
HarperHarper
16.3k3 gold badges28 silver badges75 bronze badges
Generally speaking, bicycles are classed as vehicles. And generally, vehicles must yield to pedestrians doing normal pedestrian things that they are entitled to do, like use a bus stop. So the pecking order is
Boats > Trains > Pedestrians > Bicycles > Motor Vehicles
- Drawbridges know large boats are coming, and have plenty of time to signal trains to get stopped
- Trains cannot stop, so peds and vehicles MUST wait
- Vehicles must yield to pedestrians anywhere pedestrians belong
- Bicycles are legitimate traffic and share roads with motor vehicles, except they have priority in bike lanes obviously. Laws favor bicycles because physics does not.
answered Jul 5 at 0:09
HarperHarper
16.3k3 gold badges28 silver badges75 bronze badges
edited Jul 5 at 4:35
answered Jul 5 at 0:09
HarperHarper
16.3k3 gold badges28 silver badges75 bronze badges
answered Jul 5 at 0:09
HarperHarper
16.3k3 gold badges28 silver badges75 bronze badges
answered Jul 5 at 0:09
HarperHarper
16.3k3 gold badges28 silver badges75 bronze badges
16.3k3 gold badges28 silver badges75 bronze badges
5
Dangerous assumption that other traffic must yield to pedestrians. In most cases that is not true. And pedestrians are the weakest and most easily damaged in accidents.
– Willeke♦
Jul 5 at 4:21
3
@Willeke A car never has the right to hit a pedestrian, no matter how illegally the pedestrian is crossing. But the pedestrian can certainly be subject to a fine for crossing illegally. I hope that clears things up.
– Kyralessa
Jul 5 at 8:43
3
@Kyralessa Not necessarily. I am very familiar with a story of a particular pedestrian who was hit by a speeding car while crossing a street in the US, broke the car's windshield and was briefly on top of the car, and the driver left before police arrived. The pedestrian was permanently injured. Police refused to do any investigation because the car driver did in practice have the right to hit the pedestrian. The US has a very car-centric culture, giving drivers more rights than in other countries.
– WBT
Jul 5 at 12:59
3
@WBT [citation needed]. A car never has the "right" to hit a pedestrian. The police may decide (or a judge may) that hitting the pedestrian was unavoidable, but that doesn't mean hitting a pedestrian is somehow the right thing to do.
– Kyralessa
Jul 5 at 13:08
3
Lets agree to disagree.
– Willeke♦
Jul 5 at 14:40
|
show 8 more comments
5
Dangerous assumption that other traffic must yield to pedestrians. In most cases that is not true. And pedestrians are the weakest and most easily damaged in accidents.
– Willeke♦
Jul 5 at 4:21
3
@Willeke A car never has the right to hit a pedestrian, no matter how illegally the pedestrian is crossing. But the pedestrian can certainly be subject to a fine for crossing illegally. I hope that clears things up.
– Kyralessa
Jul 5 at 8:43
3
@Kyralessa Not necessarily. I am very familiar with a story of a particular pedestrian who was hit by a speeding car while crossing a street in the US, broke the car's windshield and was briefly on top of the car, and the driver left before police arrived. The pedestrian was permanently injured. Police refused to do any investigation because the car driver did in practice have the right to hit the pedestrian. The US has a very car-centric culture, giving drivers more rights than in other countries.
– WBT
Jul 5 at 12:59
3
@WBT [citation needed]. A car never has the "right" to hit a pedestrian. The police may decide (or a judge may) that hitting the pedestrian was unavoidable, but that doesn't mean hitting a pedestrian is somehow the right thing to do.
– Kyralessa
Jul 5 at 13:08
3
Lets agree to disagree.
– Willeke♦
Jul 5 at 14:40
5
5
Dangerous assumption that other traffic must yield to pedestrians. In most cases that is not true. And pedestrians are the weakest and most easily damaged in accidents.
– Willeke♦
Jul 5 at 4:21
Dangerous assumption that other traffic must yield to pedestrians. In most cases that is not true. And pedestrians are the weakest and most easily damaged in accidents.
– Willeke♦
Jul 5 at 4:21
3
3
@Willeke A car never has the right to hit a pedestrian, no matter how illegally the pedestrian is crossing. But the pedestrian can certainly be subject to a fine for crossing illegally. I hope that clears things up.
– Kyralessa
Jul 5 at 8:43
@Willeke A car never has the right to hit a pedestrian, no matter how illegally the pedestrian is crossing. But the pedestrian can certainly be subject to a fine for crossing illegally. I hope that clears things up.
– Kyralessa
Jul 5 at 8:43
3
3
@Kyralessa Not necessarily. I am very familiar with a story of a particular pedestrian who was hit by a speeding car while crossing a street in the US, broke the car's windshield and was briefly on top of the car, and the driver left before police arrived. The pedestrian was permanently injured. Police refused to do any investigation because the car driver did in practice have the right to hit the pedestrian. The US has a very car-centric culture, giving drivers more rights than in other countries.
– WBT
Jul 5 at 12:59
@Kyralessa Not necessarily. I am very familiar with a story of a particular pedestrian who was hit by a speeding car while crossing a street in the US, broke the car's windshield and was briefly on top of the car, and the driver left before police arrived. The pedestrian was permanently injured. Police refused to do any investigation because the car driver did in practice have the right to hit the pedestrian. The US has a very car-centric culture, giving drivers more rights than in other countries.
– WBT
Jul 5 at 12:59
3
3
@WBT [citation needed]. A car never has the "right" to hit a pedestrian. The police may decide (or a judge may) that hitting the pedestrian was unavoidable, but that doesn't mean hitting a pedestrian is somehow the right thing to do.
– Kyralessa
Jul 5 at 13:08
@WBT [citation needed]. A car never has the "right" to hit a pedestrian. The police may decide (or a judge may) that hitting the pedestrian was unavoidable, but that doesn't mean hitting a pedestrian is somehow the right thing to do.
– Kyralessa
Jul 5 at 13:08
3
3
Lets agree to disagree.
– Willeke♦
Jul 5 at 14:40
Lets agree to disagree.
– Willeke♦
Jul 5 at 14:40
|
show 8 more comments
I rode bicycles for 10 years earlier in my life as my primary mode of transportation a long while ago, and pedestrians always have the right of way over any other conveyance.
And, the purpose is that... any other kind of conveyance could cause more damage. A bike rider, a skate boarder, a car, a motorcycle.. all of those things are potentially moving faster and have more mass, and thus could cause more damage.. especially to someone who may not be physically capable of moving fast enough out of the way (eg: an elderly pedestrian).
That being said... I have also ridden motorcycles for 10 years, and here's the order of operation I mentally follow every time I ride in order to keep myself alive..
1) larger object (that has more mass and could do more damage to me) has the right of way.. every time, even if they're breaking the law
2) if I have to break the law to save my life, I will
3) obey laws if possible
So, if a truck is changing lanes into me illegally while not looking... I get out of their way. I would rather be alive while watching them break the law then be dead or in a hospital bed having my wife argue about how the other person broke the law and I had the right of way.
So, as a pedestrian.. you would have the right of way getting off the bus, but assume idiots all around you are not paying attention and / or don't know the law and can potentially kill you.
Ultimately, you are responsible for your own safety.
answered Jul 5 at 18:49
blahblahblahblah
111 bronze badge
Sure, defensive behavior is always recommended, thanks!
– gsamaras
Jul 5 at 19:05
add a comment |
I rode bicycles for 10 years earlier in my life as my primary mode of transportation a long while ago, and pedestrians always have the right of way over any other conveyance.
And, the purpose is that... any other kind of conveyance could cause more damage. A bike rider, a skate boarder, a car, a motorcycle.. all of those things are potentially moving faster and have more mass, and thus could cause more damage.. especially to someone who may not be physically capable of moving fast enough out of the way (eg: an elderly pedestrian).
That being said... I have also ridden motorcycles for 10 years, and here's the order of operation I mentally follow every time I ride in order to keep myself alive..
1) larger object (that has more mass and could do more damage to me) has the right of way.. every time, even if they're breaking the law
2) if I have to break the law to save my life, I will
3) obey laws if possible
So, if a truck is changing lanes into me illegally while not looking... I get out of their way. I would rather be alive while watching them break the law then be dead or in a hospital bed having my wife argue about how the other person broke the law and I had the right of way.
So, as a pedestrian.. you would have the right of way getting off the bus, but assume idiots all around you are not paying attention and / or don't know the law and can potentially kill you.
Ultimately, you are responsible for your own safety.
answered Jul 5 at 18:49
blahblahblahblah
111 bronze badge
Sure, defensive behavior is always recommended, thanks!
– gsamaras
Jul 5 at 19:05
add a comment |
I rode bicycles for 10 years earlier in my life as my primary mode of transportation a long while ago, and pedestrians always have the right of way over any other conveyance.
And, the purpose is that... any other kind of conveyance could cause more damage. A bike rider, a skate boarder, a car, a motorcycle.. all of those things are potentially moving faster and have more mass, and thus could cause more damage.. especially to someone who may not be physically capable of moving fast enough out of the way (eg: an elderly pedestrian).
That being said... I have also ridden motorcycles for 10 years, and here's the order of operation I mentally follow every time I ride in order to keep myself alive..
1) larger object (that has more mass and could do more damage to me) has the right of way.. every time, even if they're breaking the law
2) if I have to break the law to save my life, I will
3) obey laws if possible
So, if a truck is changing lanes into me illegally while not looking... I get out of their way. I would rather be alive while watching them break the law then be dead or in a hospital bed having my wife argue about how the other person broke the law and I had the right of way.
So, as a pedestrian.. you would have the right of way getting off the bus, but assume idiots all around you are not paying attention and / or don't know the law and can potentially kill you.
Ultimately, you are responsible for your own safety.
answered Jul 5 at 18:49
blahblahblahblah
111 bronze badge
I rode bicycles for 10 years earlier in my life as my primary mode of transportation a long while ago, and pedestrians always have the right of way over any other conveyance.
And, the purpose is that... any other kind of conveyance could cause more damage. A bike rider, a skate boarder, a car, a motorcycle.. all of those things are potentially moving faster and have more mass, and thus could cause more damage.. especially to someone who may not be physically capable of moving fast enough out of the way (eg: an elderly pedestrian).
That being said... I have also ridden motorcycles for 10 years, and here's the order of operation I mentally follow every time I ride in order to keep myself alive..
1) larger object (that has more mass and could do more damage to me) has the right of way.. every time, even if they're breaking the law
2) if I have to break the law to save my life, I will
3) obey laws if possible
So, if a truck is changing lanes into me illegally while not looking... I get out of their way. I would rather be alive while watching them break the law then be dead or in a hospital bed having my wife argue about how the other person broke the law and I had the right of way.
So, as a pedestrian.. you would have the right of way getting off the bus, but assume idiots all around you are not paying attention and / or don't know the law and can potentially kill you.
Ultimately, you are responsible for your own safety.
answered Jul 5 at 18:49
blahblahblahblah
111 bronze badge
answered Jul 5 at 18:49
blahblahblahblah
111 bronze badge
answered Jul 5 at 18:49
blahblahblahblah
111 bronze badge
answered Jul 5 at 18:49
blahblahblahblah
111 bronze badge
111 bronze badge
Sure, defensive behavior is always recommended, thanks!
– gsamaras
Jul 5 at 19:05
add a comment |
Sure, defensive behavior is always recommended, thanks!
– gsamaras
Jul 5 at 19:05
Sure, defensive behavior is always recommended, thanks!
– gsamaras
Jul 5 at 19:05
Sure, defensive behavior is always recommended, thanks!
– gsamaras
Jul 5 at 19:05
add a comment |
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Where you're not aware of the law, a good rule of thumb is that faster traffic should yield to slower traffic, since faster traffic has more potential to cause injury. Even if a pedestrian is illegally crossing in the middle of a busy street, it doesn't give drivers the right to hit him.
– Kyralessa
Jul 5 at 6:30
@Kyralessa thanks, I will keep that in mind!
– gsamaras
Jul 5 at 8:06
3
why a paradox? Greek weather is terrible to cycle in. Nobody wants to cycle on 35 degrees, get sunburned and sweat like a pig.
– Travel guy
Jul 6 at 10:21
1
"I would expect the riders to be aware..." -- you should not. Bicyclists are notorious for violating traffic rules. You should not assume they'll stop on a red traffic light, you should not assume they'll not ride on the pedestrian walk (children up to 11 years have to, but otherwise it's forbidden). And no, you shouldn't assume they won't run into you getting off the bus, and then swear at you for "not being careful". There's no license plate on a bike, so the risk of being caught is low. The irony is that if as car driver, you kill one of them ignoring a red light, it's your fault.
– Damon
Jul 7 at 15:22
1
@Damon, well, I live down in the corner of Germany near Basel. Perhaps down here cyclists are more polite. Maybe it's the Swiss influence. :D
– Kyralessa
2 days ago