Can kiddush be made in the shul?Askinu Seudasa and Azamer Bishvachin before KiddushEating after Kiddush Friday Night without Motzi?why is the order of kiddush different at night from the day?On shabbos there are three meals. Why does the last meal not have the distinction of requiring kiddush?Do people who don't eat gebrokts have any reason to say “Borei Minei Mezonot” during Pesach?Can you daven mincha & ma'ariv in shul after making making Kiddush at home on Shabbat eve?Becoming Bar Mitzvah on Shabbas but made early kiddushWhere did the idea of a shul kiddush come fromWhy does one need to give the kiddush wine to a minor when saying Kiddush in shul?Men making Kiddush for women after eating at shul
Can my 2 children, aged 10 and 12, who are US citizens, travel to the USA on expired American passports?
Does running exec do anything?
The Adventures of a Chocolate Cookie
My large rocket is still flipping over
Constitutional limitation of criminalizing behavior in US law?
Why does blending blueberries, milk, banana and vanilla extract cause the mixture to have a yogurty consistency?
Why is my arithmetic with a long long int behaving this way?
Why would a military not separate its forces into different branches?
Meaning of the (idiomatic?) expression "seghe mentali"
How can a hefty sand storm happen in a thin atmosphere like Martian?
Gerrymandering Puzzle - Rig the Election
Determine if a grid contains another grid
Can full drive backup be used instead of MSSQL database backup?
Is throwing dice a stochastic or a deterministic process?
What happens if I accidentally leave an app running and click "Install Now" in Software Updater?
Has the United States ever had a non-Christian President?
When did England stop being a Papal fief?
weird pluperfect subjunctive in Eutropius
What is the closest airport to the center of the city it serves?
Should homeowners insurance cover the cost of the home?
As a GM, is it bad form to ask for a moment to think when improvising?
How to calculate rate of axial precession?
What was the first story to feature the plot "the monsters were human all along"?
Clarification of algebra in moment generating functions
Can kiddush be made in the shul?
Askinu Seudasa and Azamer Bishvachin before KiddushEating after Kiddush Friday Night without Motzi?why is the order of kiddush different at night from the day?On shabbos there are three meals. Why does the last meal not have the distinction of requiring kiddush?Do people who don't eat gebrokts have any reason to say “Borei Minei Mezonot” during Pesach?Can you daven mincha & ma'ariv in shul after making making Kiddush at home on Shabbat eve?Becoming Bar Mitzvah on Shabbas but made early kiddushWhere did the idea of a shul kiddush come fromWhy does one need to give the kiddush wine to a minor when saying Kiddush in shul?Men making Kiddush for women after eating at shul
I've been to a few shuls on Shabbat morning where the rabbi recites Kiddush in the shul from the bimah. After that, the congregation proceeds to the Kiddush room to eat. Is this halachically permissible?
My understanding of the problems and confusion:
- One should not eat prior to hearing Kiddush
- Kiddush must be made in a makom se'udah (place where you will have the meal)
- The shul is not where people will be eating. It's in a different room.
- My understanding of the term "se'udah" is that it requires a bracha of "hamotzi". In most cases, bread is not served at the Kiddush. However, it seems that people eat a sufficient amount of cake that it may require washing and "hamotzi", though, I haven't seen people following this rule.
- Based on the last item, perhaps, there is no "makom se'udah" involved here. That, may question the effectiveness of the Kiddush in the first place.
shabbat meal-seudah kiddush
asked May 1 at 13:58
DanFDanF
35.9k529138
add a comment |
I've been to a few shuls on Shabbat morning where the rabbi recites Kiddush in the shul from the bimah. After that, the congregation proceeds to the Kiddush room to eat. Is this halachically permissible?
My understanding of the problems and confusion:
- One should not eat prior to hearing Kiddush
- Kiddush must be made in a makom se'udah (place where you will have the meal)
- The shul is not where people will be eating. It's in a different room.
- My understanding of the term "se'udah" is that it requires a bracha of "hamotzi". In most cases, bread is not served at the Kiddush. However, it seems that people eat a sufficient amount of cake that it may require washing and "hamotzi", though, I haven't seen people following this rule.
- Based on the last item, perhaps, there is no "makom se'udah" involved here. That, may question the effectiveness of the Kiddush in the first place.
shabbat meal-seudah kiddush
asked May 1 at 13:58
DanFDanF
35.9k529138
1
Side note about physical makom. I saw a synagogue which had a removable wall in the back which separated the davening space and the eating space. What kind of a wall or divider or distance impacts "makom"?
– rosends
May 1 at 13:59
A Rebbe of mine learns the Gemara which says that בית לבית doesn't qualify for קידוש במקום סעודה, but מקום למקום in the same house does, as saying even in different rooms in the same building, regardless of how big the building is. A different Rebbe of mine interprets בית לבית as meaning from room to room, and מקום למקום as meaning from one part of a room to another part of the same room; changing rooms, even if you don't change houses, disqualifies it as במקום סעודה. There's definitely room to argue either way.
– DonielF
May 1 at 19:05
Maybe that the Kiddush room and the Bet Hakneset are at the same place, to change room.
– kouty
2 days ago
add a comment |
I've been to a few shuls on Shabbat morning where the rabbi recites Kiddush in the shul from the bimah. After that, the congregation proceeds to the Kiddush room to eat. Is this halachically permissible?
My understanding of the problems and confusion:
- One should not eat prior to hearing Kiddush
- Kiddush must be made in a makom se'udah (place where you will have the meal)
- The shul is not where people will be eating. It's in a different room.
- My understanding of the term "se'udah" is that it requires a bracha of "hamotzi". In most cases, bread is not served at the Kiddush. However, it seems that people eat a sufficient amount of cake that it may require washing and "hamotzi", though, I haven't seen people following this rule.
- Based on the last item, perhaps, there is no "makom se'udah" involved here. That, may question the effectiveness of the Kiddush in the first place.
shabbat meal-seudah kiddush
asked May 1 at 13:58
DanFDanF
35.9k529138
I've been to a few shuls on Shabbat morning where the rabbi recites Kiddush in the shul from the bimah. After that, the congregation proceeds to the Kiddush room to eat. Is this halachically permissible?
My understanding of the problems and confusion:
- One should not eat prior to hearing Kiddush
- Kiddush must be made in a makom se'udah (place where you will have the meal)
- The shul is not where people will be eating. It's in a different room.
- My understanding of the term "se'udah" is that it requires a bracha of "hamotzi". In most cases, bread is not served at the Kiddush. However, it seems that people eat a sufficient amount of cake that it may require washing and "hamotzi", though, I haven't seen people following this rule.
- Based on the last item, perhaps, there is no "makom se'udah" involved here. That, may question the effectiveness of the Kiddush in the first place.
shabbat meal-seudah kiddush
shabbat meal-seudah kiddush
asked May 1 at 13:58
DanFDanF
35.9k529138
asked May 1 at 13:58
DanFDanF
35.9k529138
asked May 1 at 13:58
DanFDanF
35.9k529138
asked May 1 at 13:58
DanFDanF
35.9k529138
asked May 1 at 13:58
DanFDanF
35.9k529138
35.9k529138
1
Side note about physical makom. I saw a synagogue which had a removable wall in the back which separated the davening space and the eating space. What kind of a wall or divider or distance impacts "makom"?
– rosends
May 1 at 13:59
A Rebbe of mine learns the Gemara which says that בית לבית doesn't qualify for קידוש במקום סעודה, but מקום למקום in the same house does, as saying even in different rooms in the same building, regardless of how big the building is. A different Rebbe of mine interprets בית לבית as meaning from room to room, and מקום למקום as meaning from one part of a room to another part of the same room; changing rooms, even if you don't change houses, disqualifies it as במקום סעודה. There's definitely room to argue either way.
– DonielF
May 1 at 19:05
Maybe that the Kiddush room and the Bet Hakneset are at the same place, to change room.
– kouty
2 days ago
add a comment |
1
Side note about physical makom. I saw a synagogue which had a removable wall in the back which separated the davening space and the eating space. What kind of a wall or divider or distance impacts "makom"?
– rosends
May 1 at 13:59
A Rebbe of mine learns the Gemara which says that בית לבית doesn't qualify for קידוש במקום סעודה, but מקום למקום in the same house does, as saying even in different rooms in the same building, regardless of how big the building is. A different Rebbe of mine interprets בית לבית as meaning from room to room, and מקום למקום as meaning from one part of a room to another part of the same room; changing rooms, even if you don't change houses, disqualifies it as במקום סעודה. There's definitely room to argue either way.
– DonielF
May 1 at 19:05
Maybe that the Kiddush room and the Bet Hakneset are at the same place, to change room.
– kouty
2 days ago
1
1
Side note about physical makom. I saw a synagogue which had a removable wall in the back which separated the davening space and the eating space. What kind of a wall or divider or distance impacts "makom"?
– rosends
May 1 at 13:59
Side note about physical makom. I saw a synagogue which had a removable wall in the back which separated the davening space and the eating space. What kind of a wall or divider or distance impacts "makom"?
– rosends
May 1 at 13:59
A Rebbe of mine learns the Gemara which says that בית לבית doesn't qualify for קידוש במקום סעודה, but מקום למקום in the same house does, as saying even in different rooms in the same building, regardless of how big the building is. A different Rebbe of mine interprets בית לבית as meaning from room to room, and מקום למקום as meaning from one part of a room to another part of the same room; changing rooms, even if you don't change houses, disqualifies it as במקום סעודה. There's definitely room to argue either way.
– DonielF
May 1 at 19:05
A Rebbe of mine learns the Gemara which says that בית לבית doesn't qualify for קידוש במקום סעודה, but מקום למקום in the same house does, as saying even in different rooms in the same building, regardless of how big the building is. A different Rebbe of mine interprets בית לבית as meaning from room to room, and מקום למקום as meaning from one part of a room to another part of the same room; changing rooms, even if you don't change houses, disqualifies it as במקום סעודה. There's definitely room to argue either way.
– DonielF
May 1 at 19:05
Maybe that the Kiddush room and the Bet Hakneset are at the same place, to change room.
– kouty
2 days ago
Maybe that the Kiddush room and the Bet Hakneset are at the same place, to change room.
– kouty
2 days ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
The Beur Halacha says that beshaas hadechak, in pressing circumstances, when you make kiddush you can have in mind to eat in another room in the same building. He concludes that if you can see the other room, then in all circumstances it's fine, so long as you had in mind to eat there.
My guess has always been that in certain shuls the Rabbi is concerned that once people reach the kiddush room they will start eating right away, before hearing kiddush. That, or they won't hear the kiddush as everyone will be talking. They therefore feel compelled to make kiddush in the shul, where (hopefully) everyone is paying attention and can more easily hear.
Kiddush bemakom seudah is satisfied with mezonos, such as cake (SA OC 273:5 with Magen Avraham), which most shul kiddushes provide.
answered May 1 at 14:03
robevrobev
6,81421648
Thanks. I'll have a view at those sources. I didn't know the part re mezonot. Again, it does put to question whether most people should be washing for the cake, anyway, as I stated above.
– DanF
May 1 at 14:08
1
It's clear from the Magen Avraham that I quoted and the others in that seif that you only need a kezayis. The SA also sounds that way, that you just need enough for a bracha achrona
– robev
May 1 at 14:11
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
The Beur Halacha says that beshaas hadechak, in pressing circumstances, when you make kiddush you can have in mind to eat in another room in the same building. He concludes that if you can see the other room, then in all circumstances it's fine, so long as you had in mind to eat there.
My guess has always been that in certain shuls the Rabbi is concerned that once people reach the kiddush room they will start eating right away, before hearing kiddush. That, or they won't hear the kiddush as everyone will be talking. They therefore feel compelled to make kiddush in the shul, where (hopefully) everyone is paying attention and can more easily hear.
Kiddush bemakom seudah is satisfied with mezonos, such as cake (SA OC 273:5 with Magen Avraham), which most shul kiddushes provide.
answered May 1 at 14:03
robevrobev
6,81421648
Thanks. I'll have a view at those sources. I didn't know the part re mezonot. Again, it does put to question whether most people should be washing for the cake, anyway, as I stated above.
– DanF
May 1 at 14:08
1
It's clear from the Magen Avraham that I quoted and the others in that seif that you only need a kezayis. The SA also sounds that way, that you just need enough for a bracha achrona
– robev
May 1 at 14:11
add a comment |
The Beur Halacha says that beshaas hadechak, in pressing circumstances, when you make kiddush you can have in mind to eat in another room in the same building. He concludes that if you can see the other room, then in all circumstances it's fine, so long as you had in mind to eat there.
My guess has always been that in certain shuls the Rabbi is concerned that once people reach the kiddush room they will start eating right away, before hearing kiddush. That, or they won't hear the kiddush as everyone will be talking. They therefore feel compelled to make kiddush in the shul, where (hopefully) everyone is paying attention and can more easily hear.
Kiddush bemakom seudah is satisfied with mezonos, such as cake (SA OC 273:5 with Magen Avraham), which most shul kiddushes provide.
answered May 1 at 14:03
robevrobev
6,81421648
Thanks. I'll have a view at those sources. I didn't know the part re mezonot. Again, it does put to question whether most people should be washing for the cake, anyway, as I stated above.
– DanF
May 1 at 14:08
1
It's clear from the Magen Avraham that I quoted and the others in that seif that you only need a kezayis. The SA also sounds that way, that you just need enough for a bracha achrona
– robev
May 1 at 14:11
add a comment |
The Beur Halacha says that beshaas hadechak, in pressing circumstances, when you make kiddush you can have in mind to eat in another room in the same building. He concludes that if you can see the other room, then in all circumstances it's fine, so long as you had in mind to eat there.
My guess has always been that in certain shuls the Rabbi is concerned that once people reach the kiddush room they will start eating right away, before hearing kiddush. That, or they won't hear the kiddush as everyone will be talking. They therefore feel compelled to make kiddush in the shul, where (hopefully) everyone is paying attention and can more easily hear.
Kiddush bemakom seudah is satisfied with mezonos, such as cake (SA OC 273:5 with Magen Avraham), which most shul kiddushes provide.
answered May 1 at 14:03
robevrobev
6,81421648
The Beur Halacha says that beshaas hadechak, in pressing circumstances, when you make kiddush you can have in mind to eat in another room in the same building. He concludes that if you can see the other room, then in all circumstances it's fine, so long as you had in mind to eat there.
My guess has always been that in certain shuls the Rabbi is concerned that once people reach the kiddush room they will start eating right away, before hearing kiddush. That, or they won't hear the kiddush as everyone will be talking. They therefore feel compelled to make kiddush in the shul, where (hopefully) everyone is paying attention and can more easily hear.
Kiddush bemakom seudah is satisfied with mezonos, such as cake (SA OC 273:5 with Magen Avraham), which most shul kiddushes provide.
answered May 1 at 14:03
robevrobev
6,81421648
edited May 1 at 14:14
answered May 1 at 14:03
robevrobev
6,81421648
answered May 1 at 14:03
robevrobev
6,81421648
answered May 1 at 14:03
robevrobev
6,81421648
6,81421648
Thanks. I'll have a view at those sources. I didn't know the part re mezonot. Again, it does put to question whether most people should be washing for the cake, anyway, as I stated above.
– DanF
May 1 at 14:08
1
It's clear from the Magen Avraham that I quoted and the others in that seif that you only need a kezayis. The SA also sounds that way, that you just need enough for a bracha achrona
– robev
May 1 at 14:11
add a comment |
Thanks. I'll have a view at those sources. I didn't know the part re mezonot. Again, it does put to question whether most people should be washing for the cake, anyway, as I stated above.
– DanF
May 1 at 14:08
1
It's clear from the Magen Avraham that I quoted and the others in that seif that you only need a kezayis. The SA also sounds that way, that you just need enough for a bracha achrona
– robev
May 1 at 14:11
Thanks. I'll have a view at those sources. I didn't know the part re mezonot. Again, it does put to question whether most people should be washing for the cake, anyway, as I stated above.
– DanF
May 1 at 14:08
Thanks. I'll have a view at those sources. I didn't know the part re mezonot. Again, it does put to question whether most people should be washing for the cake, anyway, as I stated above.
– DanF
May 1 at 14:08
1
1
It's clear from the Magen Avraham that I quoted and the others in that seif that you only need a kezayis. The SA also sounds that way, that you just need enough for a bracha achrona
– robev
May 1 at 14:11
It's clear from the Magen Avraham that I quoted and the others in that seif that you only need a kezayis. The SA also sounds that way, that you just need enough for a bracha achrona
– robev
May 1 at 14:11
add a comment |
1
Side note about physical makom. I saw a synagogue which had a removable wall in the back which separated the davening space and the eating space. What kind of a wall or divider or distance impacts "makom"?
– rosends
May 1 at 13:59
A Rebbe of mine learns the Gemara which says that בית לבית doesn't qualify for קידוש במקום סעודה, but מקום למקום in the same house does, as saying even in different rooms in the same building, regardless of how big the building is. A different Rebbe of mine interprets בית לבית as meaning from room to room, and מקום למקום as meaning from one part of a room to another part of the same room; changing rooms, even if you don't change houses, disqualifies it as במקום סעודה. There's definitely room to argue either way.
– DonielF
May 1 at 19:05
Maybe that the Kiddush room and the Bet Hakneset are at the same place, to change room.
– kouty
2 days ago