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Does the 2019 UA Artificer's Many-Handed Pouch infusion enable unlimited infinite-range cross-planar communication?
How can I send long messages over long distances?How rare would a set of bags of holding/portable holes that share the same interior space be?Deck of Many Things vs. Forced DreamIt seems like every skill check should always be made with advantage due to the 'Working Together' rules. Is this accurate?How much should a weapon property akin to the armor property Wild cost?To cast Find the Path, can a caster substitute an object from the location they wish to find with a component pouch?How do I cost out a homebew magic item: Mutex Bag Of Holding?Is the saving throw bonus when carrying a Night Hag’s Heartstone optional or required?Can you take different archetype options at different levels?Party split into two: how do I bring them together?Does the 2019 UA artificer's Arcane Weapon spell apply to thrown weapons?Pathfinder warbow concept review
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$begingroup$
One of the available infusions available to the Unearthed Arcana Artificer (2019) is called the Many-Handed Pouch, which links up to 5 pouches to the same extra-dimensional space (emphasis added):
The infused pouches all share one interdimensional space of the same capacity as a single pouch. Thus, reaching into any of the pouches allows access to the same storage space. A pouch operates as long as it is within 100 miles of another one of the pouches; the pouch is otherwise empty and won’t accept any contents.
At first glance, it seems like the clause in bold limits the magic of the pouches to a range of 100 miles. However, things are not quite so simple. If I were to infuse 4 pouches and then keep a pair for myself while giving the other pair to someone else, then every pouch will always be within 100 miles of another pouch, which seems to imply that every pouch will continue to function. (Other similar variations are possible as well, but this example demonstrates the principle.) Even if the other person were to travel to another plane, nothing in the wording seems to indicate that the pouches will stop working.
Hence, at any time, one of us can write a note and put it in the pouch, where the other one can find and read it. Compared to spells, this seems to be roughly on par with the 5th-level spell Dream when used for the purposes of communication. (For example, Dream doesn't work across planes, but can target anyone rather than just the holder of the other pair of pouches.) And that's before considering the non-communication uses of the infusion. A more direct comparison would be a pair of sending stones with unlimited uses.
When read in this way, it seems quite a bit more powerful than what should normally be available to a 4th-level character. It also seems like a non-standard use of the infusion to keep the pouches in pairs rather than handing out one pouch per person.
Is this an allowed use of this infusion as written, or have I missed something that would prevent it from working in this way?
dnd-5e magic-items unearthed-arcana artificer
asked Jun 6 at 19:25
Ryan ThompsonRyan Thompson
14.4k249109
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
One of the available infusions available to the Unearthed Arcana Artificer (2019) is called the Many-Handed Pouch, which links up to 5 pouches to the same extra-dimensional space (emphasis added):
The infused pouches all share one interdimensional space of the same capacity as a single pouch. Thus, reaching into any of the pouches allows access to the same storage space. A pouch operates as long as it is within 100 miles of another one of the pouches; the pouch is otherwise empty and won’t accept any contents.
At first glance, it seems like the clause in bold limits the magic of the pouches to a range of 100 miles. However, things are not quite so simple. If I were to infuse 4 pouches and then keep a pair for myself while giving the other pair to someone else, then every pouch will always be within 100 miles of another pouch, which seems to imply that every pouch will continue to function. (Other similar variations are possible as well, but this example demonstrates the principle.) Even if the other person were to travel to another plane, nothing in the wording seems to indicate that the pouches will stop working.
Hence, at any time, one of us can write a note and put it in the pouch, where the other one can find and read it. Compared to spells, this seems to be roughly on par with the 5th-level spell Dream when used for the purposes of communication. (For example, Dream doesn't work across planes, but can target anyone rather than just the holder of the other pair of pouches.) And that's before considering the non-communication uses of the infusion. A more direct comparison would be a pair of sending stones with unlimited uses.
When read in this way, it seems quite a bit more powerful than what should normally be available to a 4th-level character. It also seems like a non-standard use of the infusion to keep the pouches in pairs rather than handing out one pouch per person.
Is this an allowed use of this infusion as written, or have I missed something that would prevent it from working in this way?
dnd-5e magic-items unearthed-arcana artificer
asked Jun 6 at 19:25
Ryan ThompsonRyan Thompson
14.4k249109
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Potentially relevant questions: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/142120/…; rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/120526/…
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
Jun 6 at 19:26
add a comment |
$begingroup$
One of the available infusions available to the Unearthed Arcana Artificer (2019) is called the Many-Handed Pouch, which links up to 5 pouches to the same extra-dimensional space (emphasis added):
The infused pouches all share one interdimensional space of the same capacity as a single pouch. Thus, reaching into any of the pouches allows access to the same storage space. A pouch operates as long as it is within 100 miles of another one of the pouches; the pouch is otherwise empty and won’t accept any contents.
At first glance, it seems like the clause in bold limits the magic of the pouches to a range of 100 miles. However, things are not quite so simple. If I were to infuse 4 pouches and then keep a pair for myself while giving the other pair to someone else, then every pouch will always be within 100 miles of another pouch, which seems to imply that every pouch will continue to function. (Other similar variations are possible as well, but this example demonstrates the principle.) Even if the other person were to travel to another plane, nothing in the wording seems to indicate that the pouches will stop working.
Hence, at any time, one of us can write a note and put it in the pouch, where the other one can find and read it. Compared to spells, this seems to be roughly on par with the 5th-level spell Dream when used for the purposes of communication. (For example, Dream doesn't work across planes, but can target anyone rather than just the holder of the other pair of pouches.) And that's before considering the non-communication uses of the infusion. A more direct comparison would be a pair of sending stones with unlimited uses.
When read in this way, it seems quite a bit more powerful than what should normally be available to a 4th-level character. It also seems like a non-standard use of the infusion to keep the pouches in pairs rather than handing out one pouch per person.
Is this an allowed use of this infusion as written, or have I missed something that would prevent it from working in this way?
dnd-5e magic-items unearthed-arcana artificer
asked Jun 6 at 19:25
Ryan ThompsonRyan Thompson
14.4k249109
$endgroup$
One of the available infusions available to the Unearthed Arcana Artificer (2019) is called the Many-Handed Pouch, which links up to 5 pouches to the same extra-dimensional space (emphasis added):
The infused pouches all share one interdimensional space of the same capacity as a single pouch. Thus, reaching into any of the pouches allows access to the same storage space. A pouch operates as long as it is within 100 miles of another one of the pouches; the pouch is otherwise empty and won’t accept any contents.
At first glance, it seems like the clause in bold limits the magic of the pouches to a range of 100 miles. However, things are not quite so simple. If I were to infuse 4 pouches and then keep a pair for myself while giving the other pair to someone else, then every pouch will always be within 100 miles of another pouch, which seems to imply that every pouch will continue to function. (Other similar variations are possible as well, but this example demonstrates the principle.) Even if the other person were to travel to another plane, nothing in the wording seems to indicate that the pouches will stop working.
Hence, at any time, one of us can write a note and put it in the pouch, where the other one can find and read it. Compared to spells, this seems to be roughly on par with the 5th-level spell Dream when used for the purposes of communication. (For example, Dream doesn't work across planes, but can target anyone rather than just the holder of the other pair of pouches.) And that's before considering the non-communication uses of the infusion. A more direct comparison would be a pair of sending stones with unlimited uses.
When read in this way, it seems quite a bit more powerful than what should normally be available to a 4th-level character. It also seems like a non-standard use of the infusion to keep the pouches in pairs rather than handing out one pouch per person.
Is this an allowed use of this infusion as written, or have I missed something that would prevent it from working in this way?
dnd-5e magic-items unearthed-arcana artificer
dnd-5e magic-items unearthed-arcana artificer
asked Jun 6 at 19:25
Ryan ThompsonRyan Thompson
14.4k249109
asked Jun 6 at 19:25
Ryan ThompsonRyan Thompson
14.4k249109
edited Jun 7 at 4:25
Ryan Thompson
asked Jun 6 at 19:25
Ryan ThompsonRyan Thompson
14.4k249109
asked Jun 6 at 19:25
Ryan ThompsonRyan Thompson
14.4k249109
asked Jun 6 at 19:25
Ryan ThompsonRyan Thompson
14.4k249109
14.4k249109
$begingroup$
Potentially relevant questions: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/142120/…; rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/120526/…
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
Jun 6 at 19:26
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Potentially relevant questions: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/142120/…; rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/120526/…
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
Jun 6 at 19:26
$begingroup$
Potentially relevant questions: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/142120/…; rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/120526/…
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
Jun 6 at 19:26
$begingroup$
Potentially relevant questions: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/142120/…; rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/120526/…
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
Jun 6 at 19:26
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Strictly as written, your read of its abilities is correct.
The line about distance doesn't apply if two pairs of pouches are very far apart from each other.
With the distance clause, though we can make some well-educated guesses about the intended mechanics of the pouch:
The likely intention is that pouches must be near to other pouches (1), but can be chained (2)(3) - so having all five pouches precisely 100 miles apart could send a small item 400 miles instantly.
pouches are clearly stated to work when near another pouch
pouches are stated to work when near another one pouch, not near
every pouchpouches being easy no-resource ultra-long-distance communication is
an outlier in terms of power level compared to other infusions, and
is probably not intended.
edited Jun 6 at 19:48
Rubiksmoose♦
68.1k11332489
answered Jun 6 at 19:45
SpeedkatSpeedkat
5,1391038
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
For what it's worth, I've spent some time thinking about how to express a rule that ensures that each pouch only works while "connected" to other pouches, but I think that might be equivalent to designing an algorithm for distributed database consistency. So I can't really blame them too much for using a simple-but-exploitable rule for when the pouches do or don't work.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 days ago
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
Strictly as written, your read of its abilities is correct.
The line about distance doesn't apply if two pairs of pouches are very far apart from each other.
With the distance clause, though we can make some well-educated guesses about the intended mechanics of the pouch:
The likely intention is that pouches must be near to other pouches (1), but can be chained (2)(3) - so having all five pouches precisely 100 miles apart could send a small item 400 miles instantly.
pouches are clearly stated to work when near another pouch
pouches are stated to work when near another one pouch, not near
every pouchpouches being easy no-resource ultra-long-distance communication is
an outlier in terms of power level compared to other infusions, and
is probably not intended.
edited Jun 6 at 19:48
Rubiksmoose♦
68.1k11332489
answered Jun 6 at 19:45
SpeedkatSpeedkat
5,1391038
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
For what it's worth, I've spent some time thinking about how to express a rule that ensures that each pouch only works while "connected" to other pouches, but I think that might be equivalent to designing an algorithm for distributed database consistency. So I can't really blame them too much for using a simple-but-exploitable rule for when the pouches do or don't work.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Strictly as written, your read of its abilities is correct.
The line about distance doesn't apply if two pairs of pouches are very far apart from each other.
With the distance clause, though we can make some well-educated guesses about the intended mechanics of the pouch:
The likely intention is that pouches must be near to other pouches (1), but can be chained (2)(3) - so having all five pouches precisely 100 miles apart could send a small item 400 miles instantly.
pouches are clearly stated to work when near another pouch
pouches are stated to work when near another one pouch, not near
every pouchpouches being easy no-resource ultra-long-distance communication is
an outlier in terms of power level compared to other infusions, and
is probably not intended.
edited Jun 6 at 19:48
Rubiksmoose♦
68.1k11332489
answered Jun 6 at 19:45
SpeedkatSpeedkat
5,1391038
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
For what it's worth, I've spent some time thinking about how to express a rule that ensures that each pouch only works while "connected" to other pouches, but I think that might be equivalent to designing an algorithm for distributed database consistency. So I can't really blame them too much for using a simple-but-exploitable rule for when the pouches do or don't work.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Strictly as written, your read of its abilities is correct.
The line about distance doesn't apply if two pairs of pouches are very far apart from each other.
With the distance clause, though we can make some well-educated guesses about the intended mechanics of the pouch:
The likely intention is that pouches must be near to other pouches (1), but can be chained (2)(3) - so having all five pouches precisely 100 miles apart could send a small item 400 miles instantly.
pouches are clearly stated to work when near another pouch
pouches are stated to work when near another one pouch, not near
every pouchpouches being easy no-resource ultra-long-distance communication is
an outlier in terms of power level compared to other infusions, and
is probably not intended.
edited Jun 6 at 19:48
Rubiksmoose♦
68.1k11332489
answered Jun 6 at 19:45
SpeedkatSpeedkat
5,1391038
$endgroup$
Strictly as written, your read of its abilities is correct.
The line about distance doesn't apply if two pairs of pouches are very far apart from each other.
With the distance clause, though we can make some well-educated guesses about the intended mechanics of the pouch:
The likely intention is that pouches must be near to other pouches (1), but can be chained (2)(3) - so having all five pouches precisely 100 miles apart could send a small item 400 miles instantly.
pouches are clearly stated to work when near another pouch
pouches are stated to work when near another one pouch, not near
every pouchpouches being easy no-resource ultra-long-distance communication is
an outlier in terms of power level compared to other infusions, and
is probably not intended.
edited Jun 6 at 19:48
Rubiksmoose♦
68.1k11332489
answered Jun 6 at 19:45
SpeedkatSpeedkat
5,1391038
edited Jun 6 at 19:48
Rubiksmoose♦
68.1k11332489
edited Jun 6 at 19:48
Rubiksmoose♦
68.1k11332489
edited Jun 6 at 19:48
Rubiksmoose♦
68.1k11332489
68.1k11332489
answered Jun 6 at 19:45
SpeedkatSpeedkat
5,1391038
answered Jun 6 at 19:45
SpeedkatSpeedkat
5,1391038
answered Jun 6 at 19:45
SpeedkatSpeedkat
5,1391038
5,1391038
$begingroup$
For what it's worth, I've spent some time thinking about how to express a rule that ensures that each pouch only works while "connected" to other pouches, but I think that might be equivalent to designing an algorithm for distributed database consistency. So I can't really blame them too much for using a simple-but-exploitable rule for when the pouches do or don't work.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
For what it's worth, I've spent some time thinking about how to express a rule that ensures that each pouch only works while "connected" to other pouches, but I think that might be equivalent to designing an algorithm for distributed database consistency. So I can't really blame them too much for using a simple-but-exploitable rule for when the pouches do or don't work.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 days ago
$begingroup$
For what it's worth, I've spent some time thinking about how to express a rule that ensures that each pouch only works while "connected" to other pouches, but I think that might be equivalent to designing an algorithm for distributed database consistency. So I can't really blame them too much for using a simple-but-exploitable rule for when the pouches do or don't work.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 days ago
$begingroup$
For what it's worth, I've spent some time thinking about how to express a rule that ensures that each pouch only works while "connected" to other pouches, but I think that might be equivalent to designing an algorithm for distributed database consistency. So I can't really blame them too much for using a simple-but-exploitable rule for when the pouches do or don't work.
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
2 days ago
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
Potentially relevant questions: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/142120/…; rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/120526/…
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
Jun 6 at 19:26