Is it possible to fly backward if you have really strong headwind?Could a plane land vertically in a strong headwind?How does headwind influence the results of a pitot tube and therefore the airspeed indicator?How do head- and tailwinds affect airspeed?How are extreme winds aloft handled and how do they affect flight?How is the climb/descent performance affected by wind gradient?Is this calculation for the 'free' climbing speed when flying in a headwind with a gradient correct?What is the constant in this formula for additional lift?Does a sudden drop of the velocity of the headwind affect the airspeed by lowering it?What are the effects of headwind strength on landing?Why changes the lift during turning with sidewinds? Why is there relative wind in the wind-frame?How does pitot tube shape affect indicated airspeed?
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Is it possible to fly backward if you have really strong headwind?
Could a plane land vertically in a strong headwind?How does headwind influence the results of a pitot tube and therefore the airspeed indicator?How do head- and tailwinds affect airspeed?How are extreme winds aloft handled and how do they affect flight?How is the climb/descent performance affected by wind gradient?Is this calculation for the 'free' climbing speed when flying in a headwind with a gradient correct?What is the constant in this formula for additional lift?Does a sudden drop of the velocity of the headwind affect the airspeed by lowering it?What are the effects of headwind strength on landing?Why changes the lift during turning with sidewinds? Why is there relative wind in the wind-frame?How does pitot tube shape affect indicated airspeed?
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Is it possible to fly a plane backwards if you have a really really strong headwind? I mean when you are aloft, you have positive airspeed and airflow over the wings but you have negative ground speed.
wind airplane
edited Jun 7 at 23:09
Community♦
1
asked Jun 6 at 6:00
Leonard TanLeonard Tan
4431214
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show 7 more comments
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Is it possible to fly a plane backwards if you have a really really strong headwind? I mean when you are aloft, you have positive airspeed and airflow over the wings but you have negative ground speed.
wind airplane
edited Jun 7 at 23:09
Community♦
1
asked Jun 6 at 6:00
Leonard TanLeonard Tan
4431214
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16
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Yes, it's possible and I witnessed it with ultralights but you are missing two keywords steady and ** non-turbulent**, Otherwise a really string wind wind ill make you fly backward, upward, downward...
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– jean
Jun 6 at 11:12
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Backward with respect to which reference frame?
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– Jörg W Mittag
Jun 6 at 14:25
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I some microlight pilots claim to have flown 'vertical circuits', taking off into a strong headwind, slowing on climbout so that they are pushed back along the length of the runway until they are in a position to make a very steep final approach
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– Dave Gremlin
Jun 6 at 17:48
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Prospective An2 owner detected...
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– Harper
Jun 6 at 18:46
5
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I once spent half an hour watching a raven doing this, apparently "just for fun". Start from perching on a stone wall, take off and climb at about 45 degrees going backwards, crab sideways at 90 degrees to the wind direction, then do a cross wind landing approach back to the starting point. It flew about 10 of these "circuits" before (presumably) it got bored and flew off somewhere else.
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– alephzero
Jun 7 at 11:43
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show 7 more comments
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Is it possible to fly a plane backwards if you have a really really strong headwind? I mean when you are aloft, you have positive airspeed and airflow over the wings but you have negative ground speed.
wind airplane
edited Jun 7 at 23:09
Community♦
1
asked Jun 6 at 6:00
Leonard TanLeonard Tan
4431214
$endgroup$
Is it possible to fly a plane backwards if you have a really really strong headwind? I mean when you are aloft, you have positive airspeed and airflow over the wings but you have negative ground speed.
wind airplane
wind airplane
edited Jun 7 at 23:09
Community♦
1
asked Jun 6 at 6:00
Leonard TanLeonard Tan
4431214
edited Jun 7 at 23:09
Community♦
1
asked Jun 6 at 6:00
Leonard TanLeonard Tan
4431214
edited Jun 7 at 23:09
Community♦
1
edited Jun 7 at 23:09
Community♦
1
edited Jun 7 at 23:09
Community♦
1
1
asked Jun 6 at 6:00
Leonard TanLeonard Tan
4431214
asked Jun 6 at 6:00
Leonard TanLeonard Tan
4431214
asked Jun 6 at 6:00
Leonard TanLeonard Tan
4431214
4431214
16
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Yes, it's possible and I witnessed it with ultralights but you are missing two keywords steady and ** non-turbulent**, Otherwise a really string wind wind ill make you fly backward, upward, downward...
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– jean
Jun 6 at 11:12
6
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Backward with respect to which reference frame?
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– Jörg W Mittag
Jun 6 at 14:25
5
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I some microlight pilots claim to have flown 'vertical circuits', taking off into a strong headwind, slowing on climbout so that they are pushed back along the length of the runway until they are in a position to make a very steep final approach
$endgroup$
– Dave Gremlin
Jun 6 at 17:48
16
$begingroup$
Prospective An2 owner detected...
$endgroup$
– Harper
Jun 6 at 18:46
5
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I once spent half an hour watching a raven doing this, apparently "just for fun". Start from perching on a stone wall, take off and climb at about 45 degrees going backwards, crab sideways at 90 degrees to the wind direction, then do a cross wind landing approach back to the starting point. It flew about 10 of these "circuits" before (presumably) it got bored and flew off somewhere else.
$endgroup$
– alephzero
Jun 7 at 11:43
|
show 7 more comments
16
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Yes, it's possible and I witnessed it with ultralights but you are missing two keywords steady and ** non-turbulent**, Otherwise a really string wind wind ill make you fly backward, upward, downward...
$endgroup$
– jean
Jun 6 at 11:12
6
$begingroup$
Backward with respect to which reference frame?
$endgroup$
– Jörg W Mittag
Jun 6 at 14:25
5
$begingroup$
I some microlight pilots claim to have flown 'vertical circuits', taking off into a strong headwind, slowing on climbout so that they are pushed back along the length of the runway until they are in a position to make a very steep final approach
$endgroup$
– Dave Gremlin
Jun 6 at 17:48
16
$begingroup$
Prospective An2 owner detected...
$endgroup$
– Harper
Jun 6 at 18:46
5
$begingroup$
I once spent half an hour watching a raven doing this, apparently "just for fun". Start from perching on a stone wall, take off and climb at about 45 degrees going backwards, crab sideways at 90 degrees to the wind direction, then do a cross wind landing approach back to the starting point. It flew about 10 of these "circuits" before (presumably) it got bored and flew off somewhere else.
$endgroup$
– alephzero
Jun 7 at 11:43
16
16
$begingroup$
Yes, it's possible and I witnessed it with ultralights but you are missing two keywords steady and ** non-turbulent**, Otherwise a really string wind wind ill make you fly backward, upward, downward...
$endgroup$
– jean
Jun 6 at 11:12
$begingroup$
Yes, it's possible and I witnessed it with ultralights but you are missing two keywords steady and ** non-turbulent**, Otherwise a really string wind wind ill make you fly backward, upward, downward...
$endgroup$
– jean
Jun 6 at 11:12
6
6
$begingroup$
Backward with respect to which reference frame?
$endgroup$
– Jörg W Mittag
Jun 6 at 14:25
$begingroup$
Backward with respect to which reference frame?
$endgroup$
– Jörg W Mittag
Jun 6 at 14:25
5
5
$begingroup$
I some microlight pilots claim to have flown 'vertical circuits', taking off into a strong headwind, slowing on climbout so that they are pushed back along the length of the runway until they are in a position to make a very steep final approach
$endgroup$
– Dave Gremlin
Jun 6 at 17:48
$begingroup$
I some microlight pilots claim to have flown 'vertical circuits', taking off into a strong headwind, slowing on climbout so that they are pushed back along the length of the runway until they are in a position to make a very steep final approach
$endgroup$
– Dave Gremlin
Jun 6 at 17:48
16
16
$begingroup$
Prospective An2 owner detected...
$endgroup$
– Harper
Jun 6 at 18:46
$begingroup$
Prospective An2 owner detected...
$endgroup$
– Harper
Jun 6 at 18:46
5
5
$begingroup$
I once spent half an hour watching a raven doing this, apparently "just for fun". Start from perching on a stone wall, take off and climb at about 45 degrees going backwards, crab sideways at 90 degrees to the wind direction, then do a cross wind landing approach back to the starting point. It flew about 10 of these "circuits" before (presumably) it got bored and flew off somewhere else.
$endgroup$
– alephzero
Jun 7 at 11:43
$begingroup$
I once spent half an hour watching a raven doing this, apparently "just for fun". Start from perching on a stone wall, take off and climb at about 45 degrees going backwards, crab sideways at 90 degrees to the wind direction, then do a cross wind landing approach back to the starting point. It flew about 10 of these "circuits" before (presumably) it got bored and flew off somewhere else.
$endgroup$
– alephzero
Jun 7 at 11:43
|
show 7 more comments
10 Answers
10
active
oldest
votes
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Yes, certainly! If your airspeed is lower than the speed of the headwind, the aircraft will fly backwards relative to the ground.
Example videos:
from ground (noisy, better turn down your volume)- from cockpit
However, note that headwind cannot cause a plane to fly backwards through the surrounding air. Constant wind does not affect airspeed.
answered Jun 6 at 6:49
boglbogl
6,64023045
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Absolutely true. Considering now a takeoff condition the headwind is helpful to provide lift at takeoff, however it might be a very dangerous factor in case of wind shear. Imagine a headwind at takeoff that suddenly stops or changes direction you get into a perilous condition. In case of predictable wind shear conditions the flight is cancelled.
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– user40476
Jun 6 at 9:50
3
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I think one of the first proofs of jet stream were discovered in such manner.
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– Giacomo Catenazzi
Jun 6 at 14:34
5
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"relative to the ground" is the key here. When I read the question, I thought the OP meant that the plane is flying backwards relative to the air - which would not be possible, except if the wing was reversed...
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– LinusGeffarth
Jun 6 at 16:07
3
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Important warning for the first video: start it muted!
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– John Dvorak
Jun 7 at 7:29
1
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@WGroleau Not necessarily, especially aloft. Winds aloft can be quite strong without being particularly turbulent. It's actually pretty common to have strong winds aloft and still have smooth flights.
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– reirab
Jun 7 at 18:13
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show 3 more comments
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Yes, I have done this many times in hang gliders, and at least once in a Cessna 152. In the latter case, the wind aloft was much stronger than at the ground-- it would be foolish to take off or even taxi in a ground-level wind strong enough to fly a light plane backwards.
You may enjoy this video of flight at zero groundspeed (I am not the pilot!) --
Note the lack of any obstructions that would create turbulence upwind of the glider. Also, the stable marine airmass, chilled from below by the cold ocean water, contributed to the smooth, gust-free conditions seen here. In many other situations it would be unsafe to maneuver near the ground at low airspeed in wind this strong.
answered Jun 6 at 12:19
quiet flyerquiet flyer
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I wasn't aware hang gliders are are also using pushback tugs :)
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– flawr
Jun 7 at 13:03
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In the UK this is called 'gale hanging', is it the same elsewhere?
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– Dave Gremlin
Jun 7 at 16:18
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Not sure Dave, that's a new one on me
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– quiet flyer
Jun 7 at 16:51
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@flawr Hmm... Since the hang glider's "landing gear" actually goes up onto the "tug" instead of using a towbar, does that make it a supertug?
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– reirab
Jun 7 at 18:15
add a comment |
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Been there, done that. A poorly forecast cold front once had me flying backwards in a Cessna 172 over Altoona, IFR (instrument flight rules) at night. Center asked me several times to verify my heading. Then when it was clear to them, they asked me my intentions. I told them I had lots of fuel and could continue to wait things out for an hour or so. The winds let up in about 20 minutes.
The controller (and all the other big boys on center frequency) were kind of incredulous. The controller eventually gave me a EFC (Expect further clearance) time, which made sense.
On that trip the anemometer at Rocky Mount, NC broke at 140 mph, according to FSS (Flight service station). A secondary problem was mountain wave over the Blue Ridge mountains and to a lesser extent over Pennsylvania. That required a block airspace clearance because the updrafts exceeded my descent capability, and the downdrafts far exceeded the climb capability. There was however no problem maintaining the IFR (instrument flight rules) minimum altitudes and the MVA (minimum vectoring altitude) for center.
answered Jun 6 at 16:24
mongomongo
13.7k1562
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Must have been a rather interesting night!
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– Cpt Reynolds
Jun 7 at 6:39
1
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Pretty wild. As many folks may already be aware, one serious concern in an encounter with high-altitude wave is flutter, because succeptibility to flutter is basically a function of TAS, so staying below the ground-level Vne IAS won't always keep you safe. So there's a limit to how much you can prudently increase your airspeed for the sake of coming down.
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– quiet flyer
Jun 7 at 17:00
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On that flight, the ride was smooth, but I reported the turbulence as severe, with a note that the ride was smooth. That got discussed a bit and the supervisor at FSS indicated that he thought that was the best way to report the ride. Vne was in my opinion not an option. I did not have a CS prop, and pulling power back to idle at -50F is not a good idea. So I kept about 1700 RPM, and had the VSI pegged at 2000 fpm. That was at least familiar territory. I had O2.
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– mongo
Jun 7 at 17:05
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes. When aloft, an aircraft only cares about how the air is flowing over its wings; how fast the air is moving relative to the ground is irrelevant.
answered Jun 6 at 11:40
David RicherbyDavid Richerby
10.9k33782
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add a comment |
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Indeed. When I was a child in the 1960's I was fishing at a bridge off the eastern end of Isla Grande Airport (TJIG) in San Juan, Puerto Rico. I saw a huge, dark and tall column of something turning and churning all the way at the other end of the airport, and flagged down a policeman walking his beat to tell him that I thought it was a fire. His eyes grew huge, grabbed me and ran for safety in the nearby Club Náutico marina building. It was a water spout -- a tornado coming in from San Juan Bay. I clearly remember seeing two aircraft trying to land on runway 27 and ending up flying backwards -- a PRANG Huey helo and a Cessna 172. One of them crashed somewhere else, but I don't remember which one or where. That was a sight I will never forget -- that and the one of my mom frantically looking for me because the spot where I was was now covered in zinc roofing.
At that same airport, many years later, I witnessed an Aeronca 7AC "Champ" trying to land in a strong headwind and coming to a dead hover over the water close to the runway 9 threshold. Try as he might, the pilot could not make any forward progress -- the engine was not powerful enough to develop enough airspeed. It was a very stupid landing attempt, IMO. He turned west and landed at Arecibo Airport (TJAB). Once the winds calmed he came back.
answered Jun 6 at 15:55
Juan JimenezJuan Jimenez
6,6231944
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Yes, if there are really strong winds, the aircraft can fly backwards relative to the ground, but never relative to the air. This is because an aircraft always needs a minimum wind flow over its wings in order to keep flying. If it's flying backwards relative to the air, there would be 0 flow or even negative wind flow over the wing.
answered Jun 6 at 17:01
WindshearWindshear
4914
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No, I mean that you are aloft, then you have headwind that is greater than the stall speed of the aircraft. You have positive airflow over the wing. Please check the meaning of 'airspeed' and 'ground speed' in aviation. But anyways, thanks for trying to help me.
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– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 0:43
3
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@LeonardTan: "Please check the meaning of 'airspeed' and 'ground speed' in aviation." – This is the second comment in which you are assuming that the people on this site don't know what airspeed and ground speed are, yet, the question makes no mention of airspeed and ground speed, so they are completely irrelevant.
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– Jörg W Mittag
Jun 7 at 4:47
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@JörgWMittag I edited my question. Is it Okay now? If it is still not okay, you can edit my question.
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– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 7:22
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Is it possible to fly a plane backwards if you have really really strong headwind
Definition of "fly backward": "tail facing direction of travel".
Yes, it's possible, even with a fast plane (jet) and light headwind; easier vertically.
Proof:
"F-22Raptor flies backwards!"
"F-22 Raptor Slides Backwards At 2015 Melbourne Air Show"
"Sukhoi Su-35S Super-Flanker Extreme Flight Demonstration incl. Insane Kulbit Maneuver!!!"
"Full size plane doing 3D" or "Skip Stewart - Entire Performance - Battle Creek 2011"
Easier with RC - "Fighter Jet does AMAZING stunts!" or "3D Jet Tail Touch"
answered Jun 6 at 23:14
RobRob
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thanks for your answer. My meaning of 'flying backward' means you have the airspeed and positive airflow but the ground speed is backwards. Please check the meaning of 'airspeed' and 'ground speed' in aviation. But anyways, your videos are cool thx!
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– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 0:36
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@LeonardTan I hope that your question isn't a duplicate of this with the exception of the difference in speed (zero vs. backwards). Relative velocity but I wanted to clarify (for any naysayers) that I mean moving backwards as opposed to answer at Wikipedia. Glad you enjoyed the videos. I've seen a jet fly 15 feet above the ground forward (slowly) and backwards doing a tail stand but wasn't able to find an example video in the time available.
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– Rob
Jun 7 at 1:28
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youtube.com/watch?v=B0mcZEnnK_U
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– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 2:22
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youtube.com/watch?v=fr1Jl1jwLDg
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– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 2:22
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Above are some example videos
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– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 2:23
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show 5 more comments
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This can happen with a glider (sailplane) winch-launching into a strong wind. Once the glider is airborne, and up into the faster wind, the winch can be slowed to a stop, and even payed-out again. For obvious reasons, this is called 'kiting', or a 'kite launch'. Some pre-planning or radio communication between the winch driver and pilot is useful to get the maximum height out of this manoeuvre.
answered Jun 6 at 16:17
Neil_UKNeil_UK
25914
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I tried that once (winch launch in strong winds), miscalculated when returning and darn near landed in the trees just before the field threshold.
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– Juan Jimenez
Jun 6 at 16:21
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It's not related to groundspeed as is being upvoted as groundspeed is simply the byproduct of the event.
IF the headwind is greater than the windspeed needed to create lift and no further propulsion is provided the aircraft will move backward while flying.
edited Jun 7 at 22:30
ymb1
74.6k7243401
answered Jun 7 at 21:42
Steve GulukSteve Guluk
1
New contributor
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No. The question asks "Is it possible to fly a plane backwards...", to which the answer is no, for all conventional aircraft (those that depend on airflow over the wing). Every answer including the word "yes" then goes on to talk about motion over the ground. Why? The aircraft is flying through the air and has absolutely no relation to the ground. The question did not ask about ground motion.
For anything flying in a steady wind, there is no such thing as wind. It is impossible for the aircraft to be affected by the wind, nor for any person or device in that aircraft to detect that wind, without an external frame of reference (observing ground motion, navigation equipment, stars...). The ground is moving relative to your flight path, yes, but you're not on the ground.
In a steady wind: You are flying in still air. The still air in which you are flying, is moving over the ground.
answered Jun 6 at 16:43
a.outa.out
19716
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Normally you want to fly from point A to point B, flying backward in the question, obviously means moving away instead of getting closer to the destination, and this is true.
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– user40476
Jun 6 at 18:33
4
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The term headwind implies ground as reference.
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– bogl
Jun 6 at 19:13
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@a.out yes you are right. In the terms of headwind is that there is no relationship to the ground.
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– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 0:39
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It's important to make a clear distinction between flying (through the air) and tracking (over the ground). Wind affects the latter but not the former. To mix the two terms feeds the misconception, widely held by the public and even by some pilots (and the downvoters), that wind somehow affects flight: the dreaded, and mythical, "downwind turn". So in absence of a reference to the ground in the original question (which has since beed edited by the OP to include it), the answer is "no".
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– a.out
Jun 7 at 16:53
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Downvoting because OP was in fact talking about ground speed, and "no such thing as wind" and saying wind doesn't "affect the flight" is way oversimplifying the question of reference frames. In everyday situations there are lots of concerns like winds aloft, gusts, windshear, sideslip and navigation concerns where insisting on everything in wind frame doesn't make sense. It's like saying we can't mention a "stall speed" when talking about stall, or saying either rotating reference frame or an inertial frame is superior for questions on wing loading in turns or the Coriolis effect.
$endgroup$
– Cody P
Jun 8 at 0:47
add a comment |
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10 Answers
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10 Answers
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$begingroup$
Yes, certainly! If your airspeed is lower than the speed of the headwind, the aircraft will fly backwards relative to the ground.
Example videos:
from ground (noisy, better turn down your volume)- from cockpit
However, note that headwind cannot cause a plane to fly backwards through the surrounding air. Constant wind does not affect airspeed.
answered Jun 6 at 6:49
boglbogl
6,64023045
$endgroup$
11
$begingroup$
Absolutely true. Considering now a takeoff condition the headwind is helpful to provide lift at takeoff, however it might be a very dangerous factor in case of wind shear. Imagine a headwind at takeoff that suddenly stops or changes direction you get into a perilous condition. In case of predictable wind shear conditions the flight is cancelled.
$endgroup$
– user40476
Jun 6 at 9:50
3
$begingroup$
I think one of the first proofs of jet stream were discovered in such manner.
$endgroup$
– Giacomo Catenazzi
Jun 6 at 14:34
5
$begingroup$
"relative to the ground" is the key here. When I read the question, I thought the OP meant that the plane is flying backwards relative to the air - which would not be possible, except if the wing was reversed...
$endgroup$
– LinusGeffarth
Jun 6 at 16:07
3
$begingroup$
Important warning for the first video: start it muted!
$endgroup$
– John Dvorak
Jun 7 at 7:29
1
$begingroup$
@WGroleau Not necessarily, especially aloft. Winds aloft can be quite strong without being particularly turbulent. It's actually pretty common to have strong winds aloft and still have smooth flights.
$endgroup$
– reirab
Jun 7 at 18:13
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
Yes, certainly! If your airspeed is lower than the speed of the headwind, the aircraft will fly backwards relative to the ground.
Example videos:
from ground (noisy, better turn down your volume)- from cockpit
However, note that headwind cannot cause a plane to fly backwards through the surrounding air. Constant wind does not affect airspeed.
answered Jun 6 at 6:49
boglbogl
6,64023045
$endgroup$
11
$begingroup$
Absolutely true. Considering now a takeoff condition the headwind is helpful to provide lift at takeoff, however it might be a very dangerous factor in case of wind shear. Imagine a headwind at takeoff that suddenly stops or changes direction you get into a perilous condition. In case of predictable wind shear conditions the flight is cancelled.
$endgroup$
– user40476
Jun 6 at 9:50
3
$begingroup$
I think one of the first proofs of jet stream were discovered in such manner.
$endgroup$
– Giacomo Catenazzi
Jun 6 at 14:34
5
$begingroup$
"relative to the ground" is the key here. When I read the question, I thought the OP meant that the plane is flying backwards relative to the air - which would not be possible, except if the wing was reversed...
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– LinusGeffarth
Jun 6 at 16:07
3
$begingroup$
Important warning for the first video: start it muted!
$endgroup$
– John Dvorak
Jun 7 at 7:29
1
$begingroup$
@WGroleau Not necessarily, especially aloft. Winds aloft can be quite strong without being particularly turbulent. It's actually pretty common to have strong winds aloft and still have smooth flights.
$endgroup$
– reirab
Jun 7 at 18:13
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
Yes, certainly! If your airspeed is lower than the speed of the headwind, the aircraft will fly backwards relative to the ground.
Example videos:
from ground (noisy, better turn down your volume)- from cockpit
However, note that headwind cannot cause a plane to fly backwards through the surrounding air. Constant wind does not affect airspeed.
answered Jun 6 at 6:49
boglbogl
6,64023045
$endgroup$
Yes, certainly! If your airspeed is lower than the speed of the headwind, the aircraft will fly backwards relative to the ground.
Example videos:
from ground (noisy, better turn down your volume)- from cockpit
However, note that headwind cannot cause a plane to fly backwards through the surrounding air. Constant wind does not affect airspeed.
answered Jun 6 at 6:49
boglbogl
6,64023045
edited Jun 8 at 12:53
answered Jun 6 at 6:49
boglbogl
6,64023045
answered Jun 6 at 6:49
boglbogl
6,64023045
answered Jun 6 at 6:49
boglbogl
6,64023045
6,64023045
11
$begingroup$
Absolutely true. Considering now a takeoff condition the headwind is helpful to provide lift at takeoff, however it might be a very dangerous factor in case of wind shear. Imagine a headwind at takeoff that suddenly stops or changes direction you get into a perilous condition. In case of predictable wind shear conditions the flight is cancelled.
$endgroup$
– user40476
Jun 6 at 9:50
3
$begingroup$
I think one of the first proofs of jet stream were discovered in such manner.
$endgroup$
– Giacomo Catenazzi
Jun 6 at 14:34
5
$begingroup$
"relative to the ground" is the key here. When I read the question, I thought the OP meant that the plane is flying backwards relative to the air - which would not be possible, except if the wing was reversed...
$endgroup$
– LinusGeffarth
Jun 6 at 16:07
3
$begingroup$
Important warning for the first video: start it muted!
$endgroup$
– John Dvorak
Jun 7 at 7:29
1
$begingroup$
@WGroleau Not necessarily, especially aloft. Winds aloft can be quite strong without being particularly turbulent. It's actually pretty common to have strong winds aloft and still have smooth flights.
$endgroup$
– reirab
Jun 7 at 18:13
|
show 3 more comments
11
$begingroup$
Absolutely true. Considering now a takeoff condition the headwind is helpful to provide lift at takeoff, however it might be a very dangerous factor in case of wind shear. Imagine a headwind at takeoff that suddenly stops or changes direction you get into a perilous condition. In case of predictable wind shear conditions the flight is cancelled.
$endgroup$
– user40476
Jun 6 at 9:50
3
$begingroup$
I think one of the first proofs of jet stream were discovered in such manner.
$endgroup$
– Giacomo Catenazzi
Jun 6 at 14:34
5
$begingroup$
"relative to the ground" is the key here. When I read the question, I thought the OP meant that the plane is flying backwards relative to the air - which would not be possible, except if the wing was reversed...
$endgroup$
– LinusGeffarth
Jun 6 at 16:07
3
$begingroup$
Important warning for the first video: start it muted!
$endgroup$
– John Dvorak
Jun 7 at 7:29
1
$begingroup$
@WGroleau Not necessarily, especially aloft. Winds aloft can be quite strong without being particularly turbulent. It's actually pretty common to have strong winds aloft and still have smooth flights.
$endgroup$
– reirab
Jun 7 at 18:13
11
11
$begingroup$
Absolutely true. Considering now a takeoff condition the headwind is helpful to provide lift at takeoff, however it might be a very dangerous factor in case of wind shear. Imagine a headwind at takeoff that suddenly stops or changes direction you get into a perilous condition. In case of predictable wind shear conditions the flight is cancelled.
$endgroup$
– user40476
Jun 6 at 9:50
$begingroup$
Absolutely true. Considering now a takeoff condition the headwind is helpful to provide lift at takeoff, however it might be a very dangerous factor in case of wind shear. Imagine a headwind at takeoff that suddenly stops or changes direction you get into a perilous condition. In case of predictable wind shear conditions the flight is cancelled.
$endgroup$
– user40476
Jun 6 at 9:50
3
3
$begingroup$
I think one of the first proofs of jet stream were discovered in such manner.
$endgroup$
– Giacomo Catenazzi
Jun 6 at 14:34
$begingroup$
I think one of the first proofs of jet stream were discovered in such manner.
$endgroup$
– Giacomo Catenazzi
Jun 6 at 14:34
5
5
$begingroup$
"relative to the ground" is the key here. When I read the question, I thought the OP meant that the plane is flying backwards relative to the air - which would not be possible, except if the wing was reversed...
$endgroup$
– LinusGeffarth
Jun 6 at 16:07
$begingroup$
"relative to the ground" is the key here. When I read the question, I thought the OP meant that the plane is flying backwards relative to the air - which would not be possible, except if the wing was reversed...
$endgroup$
– LinusGeffarth
Jun 6 at 16:07
3
3
$begingroup$
Important warning for the first video: start it muted!
$endgroup$
– John Dvorak
Jun 7 at 7:29
$begingroup$
Important warning for the first video: start it muted!
$endgroup$
– John Dvorak
Jun 7 at 7:29
1
1
$begingroup$
@WGroleau Not necessarily, especially aloft. Winds aloft can be quite strong without being particularly turbulent. It's actually pretty common to have strong winds aloft and still have smooth flights.
$endgroup$
– reirab
Jun 7 at 18:13
$begingroup$
@WGroleau Not necessarily, especially aloft. Winds aloft can be quite strong without being particularly turbulent. It's actually pretty common to have strong winds aloft and still have smooth flights.
$endgroup$
– reirab
Jun 7 at 18:13
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
Yes, I have done this many times in hang gliders, and at least once in a Cessna 152. In the latter case, the wind aloft was much stronger than at the ground-- it would be foolish to take off or even taxi in a ground-level wind strong enough to fly a light plane backwards.
You may enjoy this video of flight at zero groundspeed (I am not the pilot!) --
Note the lack of any obstructions that would create turbulence upwind of the glider. Also, the stable marine airmass, chilled from below by the cold ocean water, contributed to the smooth, gust-free conditions seen here. In many other situations it would be unsafe to maneuver near the ground at low airspeed in wind this strong.
answered Jun 6 at 12:19
quiet flyerquiet flyer
2,329430
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
I wasn't aware hang gliders are are also using pushback tugs :)
$endgroup$
– flawr
Jun 7 at 13:03
1
$begingroup$
In the UK this is called 'gale hanging', is it the same elsewhere?
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– Dave Gremlin
Jun 7 at 16:18
1
$begingroup$
Not sure Dave, that's a new one on me
$endgroup$
– quiet flyer
Jun 7 at 16:51
$begingroup$
@flawr Hmm... Since the hang glider's "landing gear" actually goes up onto the "tug" instead of using a towbar, does that make it a supertug?
$endgroup$
– reirab
Jun 7 at 18:15
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, I have done this many times in hang gliders, and at least once in a Cessna 152. In the latter case, the wind aloft was much stronger than at the ground-- it would be foolish to take off or even taxi in a ground-level wind strong enough to fly a light plane backwards.
You may enjoy this video of flight at zero groundspeed (I am not the pilot!) --
Note the lack of any obstructions that would create turbulence upwind of the glider. Also, the stable marine airmass, chilled from below by the cold ocean water, contributed to the smooth, gust-free conditions seen here. In many other situations it would be unsafe to maneuver near the ground at low airspeed in wind this strong.
answered Jun 6 at 12:19
quiet flyerquiet flyer
2,329430
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
I wasn't aware hang gliders are are also using pushback tugs :)
$endgroup$
– flawr
Jun 7 at 13:03
1
$begingroup$
In the UK this is called 'gale hanging', is it the same elsewhere?
$endgroup$
– Dave Gremlin
Jun 7 at 16:18
1
$begingroup$
Not sure Dave, that's a new one on me
$endgroup$
– quiet flyer
Jun 7 at 16:51
$begingroup$
@flawr Hmm... Since the hang glider's "landing gear" actually goes up onto the "tug" instead of using a towbar, does that make it a supertug?
$endgroup$
– reirab
Jun 7 at 18:15
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, I have done this many times in hang gliders, and at least once in a Cessna 152. In the latter case, the wind aloft was much stronger than at the ground-- it would be foolish to take off or even taxi in a ground-level wind strong enough to fly a light plane backwards.
You may enjoy this video of flight at zero groundspeed (I am not the pilot!) --
Note the lack of any obstructions that would create turbulence upwind of the glider. Also, the stable marine airmass, chilled from below by the cold ocean water, contributed to the smooth, gust-free conditions seen here. In many other situations it would be unsafe to maneuver near the ground at low airspeed in wind this strong.
answered Jun 6 at 12:19
quiet flyerquiet flyer
2,329430
$endgroup$
Yes, I have done this many times in hang gliders, and at least once in a Cessna 152. In the latter case, the wind aloft was much stronger than at the ground-- it would be foolish to take off or even taxi in a ground-level wind strong enough to fly a light plane backwards.
You may enjoy this video of flight at zero groundspeed (I am not the pilot!) --
Note the lack of any obstructions that would create turbulence upwind of the glider. Also, the stable marine airmass, chilled from below by the cold ocean water, contributed to the smooth, gust-free conditions seen here. In many other situations it would be unsafe to maneuver near the ground at low airspeed in wind this strong.
answered Jun 6 at 12:19
quiet flyerquiet flyer
2,329430
edited Jun 7 at 12:45
answered Jun 6 at 12:19
quiet flyerquiet flyer
2,329430
answered Jun 6 at 12:19
quiet flyerquiet flyer
2,329430
answered Jun 6 at 12:19
quiet flyerquiet flyer
2,329430
2,329430
3
$begingroup$
I wasn't aware hang gliders are are also using pushback tugs :)
$endgroup$
– flawr
Jun 7 at 13:03
1
$begingroup$
In the UK this is called 'gale hanging', is it the same elsewhere?
$endgroup$
– Dave Gremlin
Jun 7 at 16:18
1
$begingroup$
Not sure Dave, that's a new one on me
$endgroup$
– quiet flyer
Jun 7 at 16:51
$begingroup$
@flawr Hmm... Since the hang glider's "landing gear" actually goes up onto the "tug" instead of using a towbar, does that make it a supertug?
$endgroup$
– reirab
Jun 7 at 18:15
add a comment |
3
$begingroup$
I wasn't aware hang gliders are are also using pushback tugs :)
$endgroup$
– flawr
Jun 7 at 13:03
1
$begingroup$
In the UK this is called 'gale hanging', is it the same elsewhere?
$endgroup$
– Dave Gremlin
Jun 7 at 16:18
1
$begingroup$
Not sure Dave, that's a new one on me
$endgroup$
– quiet flyer
Jun 7 at 16:51
$begingroup$
@flawr Hmm... Since the hang glider's "landing gear" actually goes up onto the "tug" instead of using a towbar, does that make it a supertug?
$endgroup$
– reirab
Jun 7 at 18:15
3
3
$begingroup$
I wasn't aware hang gliders are are also using pushback tugs :)
$endgroup$
– flawr
Jun 7 at 13:03
$begingroup$
I wasn't aware hang gliders are are also using pushback tugs :)
$endgroup$
– flawr
Jun 7 at 13:03
1
1
$begingroup$
In the UK this is called 'gale hanging', is it the same elsewhere?
$endgroup$
– Dave Gremlin
Jun 7 at 16:18
$begingroup$
In the UK this is called 'gale hanging', is it the same elsewhere?
$endgroup$
– Dave Gremlin
Jun 7 at 16:18
1
1
$begingroup$
Not sure Dave, that's a new one on me
$endgroup$
– quiet flyer
Jun 7 at 16:51
$begingroup$
Not sure Dave, that's a new one on me
$endgroup$
– quiet flyer
Jun 7 at 16:51
$begingroup$
@flawr Hmm... Since the hang glider's "landing gear" actually goes up onto the "tug" instead of using a towbar, does that make it a supertug?
$endgroup$
– reirab
Jun 7 at 18:15
$begingroup$
@flawr Hmm... Since the hang glider's "landing gear" actually goes up onto the "tug" instead of using a towbar, does that make it a supertug?
$endgroup$
– reirab
Jun 7 at 18:15
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Been there, done that. A poorly forecast cold front once had me flying backwards in a Cessna 172 over Altoona, IFR (instrument flight rules) at night. Center asked me several times to verify my heading. Then when it was clear to them, they asked me my intentions. I told them I had lots of fuel and could continue to wait things out for an hour or so. The winds let up in about 20 minutes.
The controller (and all the other big boys on center frequency) were kind of incredulous. The controller eventually gave me a EFC (Expect further clearance) time, which made sense.
On that trip the anemometer at Rocky Mount, NC broke at 140 mph, according to FSS (Flight service station). A secondary problem was mountain wave over the Blue Ridge mountains and to a lesser extent over Pennsylvania. That required a block airspace clearance because the updrafts exceeded my descent capability, and the downdrafts far exceeded the climb capability. There was however no problem maintaining the IFR (instrument flight rules) minimum altitudes and the MVA (minimum vectoring altitude) for center.
answered Jun 6 at 16:24
mongomongo
13.7k1562
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Must have been a rather interesting night!
$endgroup$
– Cpt Reynolds
Jun 7 at 6:39
1
$begingroup$
Pretty wild. As many folks may already be aware, one serious concern in an encounter with high-altitude wave is flutter, because succeptibility to flutter is basically a function of TAS, so staying below the ground-level Vne IAS won't always keep you safe. So there's a limit to how much you can prudently increase your airspeed for the sake of coming down.
$endgroup$
– quiet flyer
Jun 7 at 17:00
$begingroup$
On that flight, the ride was smooth, but I reported the turbulence as severe, with a note that the ride was smooth. That got discussed a bit and the supervisor at FSS indicated that he thought that was the best way to report the ride. Vne was in my opinion not an option. I did not have a CS prop, and pulling power back to idle at -50F is not a good idea. So I kept about 1700 RPM, and had the VSI pegged at 2000 fpm. That was at least familiar territory. I had O2.
$endgroup$
– mongo
Jun 7 at 17:05
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Been there, done that. A poorly forecast cold front once had me flying backwards in a Cessna 172 over Altoona, IFR (instrument flight rules) at night. Center asked me several times to verify my heading. Then when it was clear to them, they asked me my intentions. I told them I had lots of fuel and could continue to wait things out for an hour or so. The winds let up in about 20 minutes.
The controller (and all the other big boys on center frequency) were kind of incredulous. The controller eventually gave me a EFC (Expect further clearance) time, which made sense.
On that trip the anemometer at Rocky Mount, NC broke at 140 mph, according to FSS (Flight service station). A secondary problem was mountain wave over the Blue Ridge mountains and to a lesser extent over Pennsylvania. That required a block airspace clearance because the updrafts exceeded my descent capability, and the downdrafts far exceeded the climb capability. There was however no problem maintaining the IFR (instrument flight rules) minimum altitudes and the MVA (minimum vectoring altitude) for center.
answered Jun 6 at 16:24
mongomongo
13.7k1562
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Must have been a rather interesting night!
$endgroup$
– Cpt Reynolds
Jun 7 at 6:39
1
$begingroup$
Pretty wild. As many folks may already be aware, one serious concern in an encounter with high-altitude wave is flutter, because succeptibility to flutter is basically a function of TAS, so staying below the ground-level Vne IAS won't always keep you safe. So there's a limit to how much you can prudently increase your airspeed for the sake of coming down.
$endgroup$
– quiet flyer
Jun 7 at 17:00
$begingroup$
On that flight, the ride was smooth, but I reported the turbulence as severe, with a note that the ride was smooth. That got discussed a bit and the supervisor at FSS indicated that he thought that was the best way to report the ride. Vne was in my opinion not an option. I did not have a CS prop, and pulling power back to idle at -50F is not a good idea. So I kept about 1700 RPM, and had the VSI pegged at 2000 fpm. That was at least familiar territory. I had O2.
$endgroup$
– mongo
Jun 7 at 17:05
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Been there, done that. A poorly forecast cold front once had me flying backwards in a Cessna 172 over Altoona, IFR (instrument flight rules) at night. Center asked me several times to verify my heading. Then when it was clear to them, they asked me my intentions. I told them I had lots of fuel and could continue to wait things out for an hour or so. The winds let up in about 20 minutes.
The controller (and all the other big boys on center frequency) were kind of incredulous. The controller eventually gave me a EFC (Expect further clearance) time, which made sense.
On that trip the anemometer at Rocky Mount, NC broke at 140 mph, according to FSS (Flight service station). A secondary problem was mountain wave over the Blue Ridge mountains and to a lesser extent over Pennsylvania. That required a block airspace clearance because the updrafts exceeded my descent capability, and the downdrafts far exceeded the climb capability. There was however no problem maintaining the IFR (instrument flight rules) minimum altitudes and the MVA (minimum vectoring altitude) for center.
answered Jun 6 at 16:24
mongomongo
13.7k1562
$endgroup$
Been there, done that. A poorly forecast cold front once had me flying backwards in a Cessna 172 over Altoona, IFR (instrument flight rules) at night. Center asked me several times to verify my heading. Then when it was clear to them, they asked me my intentions. I told them I had lots of fuel and could continue to wait things out for an hour or so. The winds let up in about 20 minutes.
The controller (and all the other big boys on center frequency) were kind of incredulous. The controller eventually gave me a EFC (Expect further clearance) time, which made sense.
On that trip the anemometer at Rocky Mount, NC broke at 140 mph, according to FSS (Flight service station). A secondary problem was mountain wave over the Blue Ridge mountains and to a lesser extent over Pennsylvania. That required a block airspace clearance because the updrafts exceeded my descent capability, and the downdrafts far exceeded the climb capability. There was however no problem maintaining the IFR (instrument flight rules) minimum altitudes and the MVA (minimum vectoring altitude) for center.
answered Jun 6 at 16:24
mongomongo
13.7k1562
edited Jun 7 at 16:43
answered Jun 6 at 16:24
mongomongo
13.7k1562
answered Jun 6 at 16:24
mongomongo
13.7k1562
answered Jun 6 at 16:24
mongomongo
13.7k1562
13.7k1562
1
$begingroup$
Must have been a rather interesting night!
$endgroup$
– Cpt Reynolds
Jun 7 at 6:39
1
$begingroup$
Pretty wild. As many folks may already be aware, one serious concern in an encounter with high-altitude wave is flutter, because succeptibility to flutter is basically a function of TAS, so staying below the ground-level Vne IAS won't always keep you safe. So there's a limit to how much you can prudently increase your airspeed for the sake of coming down.
$endgroup$
– quiet flyer
Jun 7 at 17:00
$begingroup$
On that flight, the ride was smooth, but I reported the turbulence as severe, with a note that the ride was smooth. That got discussed a bit and the supervisor at FSS indicated that he thought that was the best way to report the ride. Vne was in my opinion not an option. I did not have a CS prop, and pulling power back to idle at -50F is not a good idea. So I kept about 1700 RPM, and had the VSI pegged at 2000 fpm. That was at least familiar territory. I had O2.
$endgroup$
– mongo
Jun 7 at 17:05
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
Must have been a rather interesting night!
$endgroup$
– Cpt Reynolds
Jun 7 at 6:39
1
$begingroup$
Pretty wild. As many folks may already be aware, one serious concern in an encounter with high-altitude wave is flutter, because succeptibility to flutter is basically a function of TAS, so staying below the ground-level Vne IAS won't always keep you safe. So there's a limit to how much you can prudently increase your airspeed for the sake of coming down.
$endgroup$
– quiet flyer
Jun 7 at 17:00
$begingroup$
On that flight, the ride was smooth, but I reported the turbulence as severe, with a note that the ride was smooth. That got discussed a bit and the supervisor at FSS indicated that he thought that was the best way to report the ride. Vne was in my opinion not an option. I did not have a CS prop, and pulling power back to idle at -50F is not a good idea. So I kept about 1700 RPM, and had the VSI pegged at 2000 fpm. That was at least familiar territory. I had O2.
$endgroup$
– mongo
Jun 7 at 17:05
1
1
$begingroup$
Must have been a rather interesting night!
$endgroup$
– Cpt Reynolds
Jun 7 at 6:39
$begingroup$
Must have been a rather interesting night!
$endgroup$
– Cpt Reynolds
Jun 7 at 6:39
1
1
$begingroup$
Pretty wild. As many folks may already be aware, one serious concern in an encounter with high-altitude wave is flutter, because succeptibility to flutter is basically a function of TAS, so staying below the ground-level Vne IAS won't always keep you safe. So there's a limit to how much you can prudently increase your airspeed for the sake of coming down.
$endgroup$
– quiet flyer
Jun 7 at 17:00
$begingroup$
Pretty wild. As many folks may already be aware, one serious concern in an encounter with high-altitude wave is flutter, because succeptibility to flutter is basically a function of TAS, so staying below the ground-level Vne IAS won't always keep you safe. So there's a limit to how much you can prudently increase your airspeed for the sake of coming down.
$endgroup$
– quiet flyer
Jun 7 at 17:00
$begingroup$
On that flight, the ride was smooth, but I reported the turbulence as severe, with a note that the ride was smooth. That got discussed a bit and the supervisor at FSS indicated that he thought that was the best way to report the ride. Vne was in my opinion not an option. I did not have a CS prop, and pulling power back to idle at -50F is not a good idea. So I kept about 1700 RPM, and had the VSI pegged at 2000 fpm. That was at least familiar territory. I had O2.
$endgroup$
– mongo
Jun 7 at 17:05
$begingroup$
On that flight, the ride was smooth, but I reported the turbulence as severe, with a note that the ride was smooth. That got discussed a bit and the supervisor at FSS indicated that he thought that was the best way to report the ride. Vne was in my opinion not an option. I did not have a CS prop, and pulling power back to idle at -50F is not a good idea. So I kept about 1700 RPM, and had the VSI pegged at 2000 fpm. That was at least familiar territory. I had O2.
$endgroup$
– mongo
Jun 7 at 17:05
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes. When aloft, an aircraft only cares about how the air is flowing over its wings; how fast the air is moving relative to the ground is irrelevant.
answered Jun 6 at 11:40
David RicherbyDavid Richerby
10.9k33782
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes. When aloft, an aircraft only cares about how the air is flowing over its wings; how fast the air is moving relative to the ground is irrelevant.
answered Jun 6 at 11:40
David RicherbyDavid Richerby
10.9k33782
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes. When aloft, an aircraft only cares about how the air is flowing over its wings; how fast the air is moving relative to the ground is irrelevant.
answered Jun 6 at 11:40
David RicherbyDavid Richerby
10.9k33782
$endgroup$
Yes. When aloft, an aircraft only cares about how the air is flowing over its wings; how fast the air is moving relative to the ground is irrelevant.
answered Jun 6 at 11:40
David RicherbyDavid Richerby
10.9k33782
answered Jun 6 at 11:40
David RicherbyDavid Richerby
10.9k33782
answered Jun 6 at 11:40
David RicherbyDavid Richerby
10.9k33782
answered Jun 6 at 11:40
David RicherbyDavid Richerby
10.9k33782
10.9k33782
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Indeed. When I was a child in the 1960's I was fishing at a bridge off the eastern end of Isla Grande Airport (TJIG) in San Juan, Puerto Rico. I saw a huge, dark and tall column of something turning and churning all the way at the other end of the airport, and flagged down a policeman walking his beat to tell him that I thought it was a fire. His eyes grew huge, grabbed me and ran for safety in the nearby Club Náutico marina building. It was a water spout -- a tornado coming in from San Juan Bay. I clearly remember seeing two aircraft trying to land on runway 27 and ending up flying backwards -- a PRANG Huey helo and a Cessna 172. One of them crashed somewhere else, but I don't remember which one or where. That was a sight I will never forget -- that and the one of my mom frantically looking for me because the spot where I was was now covered in zinc roofing.
At that same airport, many years later, I witnessed an Aeronca 7AC "Champ" trying to land in a strong headwind and coming to a dead hover over the water close to the runway 9 threshold. Try as he might, the pilot could not make any forward progress -- the engine was not powerful enough to develop enough airspeed. It was a very stupid landing attempt, IMO. He turned west and landed at Arecibo Airport (TJAB). Once the winds calmed he came back.
answered Jun 6 at 15:55
Juan JimenezJuan Jimenez
6,6231944
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Indeed. When I was a child in the 1960's I was fishing at a bridge off the eastern end of Isla Grande Airport (TJIG) in San Juan, Puerto Rico. I saw a huge, dark and tall column of something turning and churning all the way at the other end of the airport, and flagged down a policeman walking his beat to tell him that I thought it was a fire. His eyes grew huge, grabbed me and ran for safety in the nearby Club Náutico marina building. It was a water spout -- a tornado coming in from San Juan Bay. I clearly remember seeing two aircraft trying to land on runway 27 and ending up flying backwards -- a PRANG Huey helo and a Cessna 172. One of them crashed somewhere else, but I don't remember which one or where. That was a sight I will never forget -- that and the one of my mom frantically looking for me because the spot where I was was now covered in zinc roofing.
At that same airport, many years later, I witnessed an Aeronca 7AC "Champ" trying to land in a strong headwind and coming to a dead hover over the water close to the runway 9 threshold. Try as he might, the pilot could not make any forward progress -- the engine was not powerful enough to develop enough airspeed. It was a very stupid landing attempt, IMO. He turned west and landed at Arecibo Airport (TJAB). Once the winds calmed he came back.
answered Jun 6 at 15:55
Juan JimenezJuan Jimenez
6,6231944
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Indeed. When I was a child in the 1960's I was fishing at a bridge off the eastern end of Isla Grande Airport (TJIG) in San Juan, Puerto Rico. I saw a huge, dark and tall column of something turning and churning all the way at the other end of the airport, and flagged down a policeman walking his beat to tell him that I thought it was a fire. His eyes grew huge, grabbed me and ran for safety in the nearby Club Náutico marina building. It was a water spout -- a tornado coming in from San Juan Bay. I clearly remember seeing two aircraft trying to land on runway 27 and ending up flying backwards -- a PRANG Huey helo and a Cessna 172. One of them crashed somewhere else, but I don't remember which one or where. That was a sight I will never forget -- that and the one of my mom frantically looking for me because the spot where I was was now covered in zinc roofing.
At that same airport, many years later, I witnessed an Aeronca 7AC "Champ" trying to land in a strong headwind and coming to a dead hover over the water close to the runway 9 threshold. Try as he might, the pilot could not make any forward progress -- the engine was not powerful enough to develop enough airspeed. It was a very stupid landing attempt, IMO. He turned west and landed at Arecibo Airport (TJAB). Once the winds calmed he came back.
answered Jun 6 at 15:55
Juan JimenezJuan Jimenez
6,6231944
$endgroup$
Indeed. When I was a child in the 1960's I was fishing at a bridge off the eastern end of Isla Grande Airport (TJIG) in San Juan, Puerto Rico. I saw a huge, dark and tall column of something turning and churning all the way at the other end of the airport, and flagged down a policeman walking his beat to tell him that I thought it was a fire. His eyes grew huge, grabbed me and ran for safety in the nearby Club Náutico marina building. It was a water spout -- a tornado coming in from San Juan Bay. I clearly remember seeing two aircraft trying to land on runway 27 and ending up flying backwards -- a PRANG Huey helo and a Cessna 172. One of them crashed somewhere else, but I don't remember which one or where. That was a sight I will never forget -- that and the one of my mom frantically looking for me because the spot where I was was now covered in zinc roofing.
At that same airport, many years later, I witnessed an Aeronca 7AC "Champ" trying to land in a strong headwind and coming to a dead hover over the water close to the runway 9 threshold. Try as he might, the pilot could not make any forward progress -- the engine was not powerful enough to develop enough airspeed. It was a very stupid landing attempt, IMO. He turned west and landed at Arecibo Airport (TJAB). Once the winds calmed he came back.
answered Jun 6 at 15:55
Juan JimenezJuan Jimenez
6,6231944
edited Jun 6 at 16:02
answered Jun 6 at 15:55
Juan JimenezJuan Jimenez
6,6231944
answered Jun 6 at 15:55
Juan JimenezJuan Jimenez
6,6231944
answered Jun 6 at 15:55
Juan JimenezJuan Jimenez
6,6231944
6,6231944
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, if there are really strong winds, the aircraft can fly backwards relative to the ground, but never relative to the air. This is because an aircraft always needs a minimum wind flow over its wings in order to keep flying. If it's flying backwards relative to the air, there would be 0 flow or even negative wind flow over the wing.
answered Jun 6 at 17:01
WindshearWindshear
4914
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
No, I mean that you are aloft, then you have headwind that is greater than the stall speed of the aircraft. You have positive airflow over the wing. Please check the meaning of 'airspeed' and 'ground speed' in aviation. But anyways, thanks for trying to help me.
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 0:43
3
$begingroup$
@LeonardTan: "Please check the meaning of 'airspeed' and 'ground speed' in aviation." – This is the second comment in which you are assuming that the people on this site don't know what airspeed and ground speed are, yet, the question makes no mention of airspeed and ground speed, so they are completely irrelevant.
$endgroup$
– Jörg W Mittag
Jun 7 at 4:47
$begingroup$
@JörgWMittag I edited my question. Is it Okay now? If it is still not okay, you can edit my question.
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 7:22
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, if there are really strong winds, the aircraft can fly backwards relative to the ground, but never relative to the air. This is because an aircraft always needs a minimum wind flow over its wings in order to keep flying. If it's flying backwards relative to the air, there would be 0 flow or even negative wind flow over the wing.
answered Jun 6 at 17:01
WindshearWindshear
4914
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
No, I mean that you are aloft, then you have headwind that is greater than the stall speed of the aircraft. You have positive airflow over the wing. Please check the meaning of 'airspeed' and 'ground speed' in aviation. But anyways, thanks for trying to help me.
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 0:43
3
$begingroup$
@LeonardTan: "Please check the meaning of 'airspeed' and 'ground speed' in aviation." – This is the second comment in which you are assuming that the people on this site don't know what airspeed and ground speed are, yet, the question makes no mention of airspeed and ground speed, so they are completely irrelevant.
$endgroup$
– Jörg W Mittag
Jun 7 at 4:47
$begingroup$
@JörgWMittag I edited my question. Is it Okay now? If it is still not okay, you can edit my question.
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 7:22
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, if there are really strong winds, the aircraft can fly backwards relative to the ground, but never relative to the air. This is because an aircraft always needs a minimum wind flow over its wings in order to keep flying. If it's flying backwards relative to the air, there would be 0 flow or even negative wind flow over the wing.
answered Jun 6 at 17:01
WindshearWindshear
4914
$endgroup$
Yes, if there are really strong winds, the aircraft can fly backwards relative to the ground, but never relative to the air. This is because an aircraft always needs a minimum wind flow over its wings in order to keep flying. If it's flying backwards relative to the air, there would be 0 flow or even negative wind flow over the wing.
answered Jun 6 at 17:01
WindshearWindshear
4914
answered Jun 6 at 17:01
WindshearWindshear
4914
answered Jun 6 at 17:01
WindshearWindshear
4914
answered Jun 6 at 17:01
WindshearWindshear
4914
4914
$begingroup$
No, I mean that you are aloft, then you have headwind that is greater than the stall speed of the aircraft. You have positive airflow over the wing. Please check the meaning of 'airspeed' and 'ground speed' in aviation. But anyways, thanks for trying to help me.
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 0:43
3
$begingroup$
@LeonardTan: "Please check the meaning of 'airspeed' and 'ground speed' in aviation." – This is the second comment in which you are assuming that the people on this site don't know what airspeed and ground speed are, yet, the question makes no mention of airspeed and ground speed, so they are completely irrelevant.
$endgroup$
– Jörg W Mittag
Jun 7 at 4:47
$begingroup$
@JörgWMittag I edited my question. Is it Okay now? If it is still not okay, you can edit my question.
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 7:22
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No, I mean that you are aloft, then you have headwind that is greater than the stall speed of the aircraft. You have positive airflow over the wing. Please check the meaning of 'airspeed' and 'ground speed' in aviation. But anyways, thanks for trying to help me.
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 0:43
3
$begingroup$
@LeonardTan: "Please check the meaning of 'airspeed' and 'ground speed' in aviation." – This is the second comment in which you are assuming that the people on this site don't know what airspeed and ground speed are, yet, the question makes no mention of airspeed and ground speed, so they are completely irrelevant.
$endgroup$
– Jörg W Mittag
Jun 7 at 4:47
$begingroup$
@JörgWMittag I edited my question. Is it Okay now? If it is still not okay, you can edit my question.
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 7:22
$begingroup$
No, I mean that you are aloft, then you have headwind that is greater than the stall speed of the aircraft. You have positive airflow over the wing. Please check the meaning of 'airspeed' and 'ground speed' in aviation. But anyways, thanks for trying to help me.
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 0:43
$begingroup$
No, I mean that you are aloft, then you have headwind that is greater than the stall speed of the aircraft. You have positive airflow over the wing. Please check the meaning of 'airspeed' and 'ground speed' in aviation. But anyways, thanks for trying to help me.
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 0:43
3
3
$begingroup$
@LeonardTan: "Please check the meaning of 'airspeed' and 'ground speed' in aviation." – This is the second comment in which you are assuming that the people on this site don't know what airspeed and ground speed are, yet, the question makes no mention of airspeed and ground speed, so they are completely irrelevant.
$endgroup$
– Jörg W Mittag
Jun 7 at 4:47
$begingroup$
@LeonardTan: "Please check the meaning of 'airspeed' and 'ground speed' in aviation." – This is the second comment in which you are assuming that the people on this site don't know what airspeed and ground speed are, yet, the question makes no mention of airspeed and ground speed, so they are completely irrelevant.
$endgroup$
– Jörg W Mittag
Jun 7 at 4:47
$begingroup$
@JörgWMittag I edited my question. Is it Okay now? If it is still not okay, you can edit my question.
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 7:22
$begingroup$
@JörgWMittag I edited my question. Is it Okay now? If it is still not okay, you can edit my question.
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 7:22
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Is it possible to fly a plane backwards if you have really really strong headwind
Definition of "fly backward": "tail facing direction of travel".
Yes, it's possible, even with a fast plane (jet) and light headwind; easier vertically.
Proof:
"F-22Raptor flies backwards!"
"F-22 Raptor Slides Backwards At 2015 Melbourne Air Show"
"Sukhoi Su-35S Super-Flanker Extreme Flight Demonstration incl. Insane Kulbit Maneuver!!!"
"Full size plane doing 3D" or "Skip Stewart - Entire Performance - Battle Creek 2011"
Easier with RC - "Fighter Jet does AMAZING stunts!" or "3D Jet Tail Touch"
answered Jun 6 at 23:14
RobRob
1513
New contributor
Rob is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
thanks for your answer. My meaning of 'flying backward' means you have the airspeed and positive airflow but the ground speed is backwards. Please check the meaning of 'airspeed' and 'ground speed' in aviation. But anyways, your videos are cool thx!
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 0:36
$begingroup$
@LeonardTan I hope that your question isn't a duplicate of this with the exception of the difference in speed (zero vs. backwards). Relative velocity but I wanted to clarify (for any naysayers) that I mean moving backwards as opposed to answer at Wikipedia. Glad you enjoyed the videos. I've seen a jet fly 15 feet above the ground forward (slowly) and backwards doing a tail stand but wasn't able to find an example video in the time available.
$endgroup$
– Rob
Jun 7 at 1:28
$begingroup$
youtube.com/watch?v=B0mcZEnnK_U
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 2:22
$begingroup$
youtube.com/watch?v=fr1Jl1jwLDg
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 2:22
$begingroup$
Above are some example videos
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 2:23
|
show 5 more comments
$begingroup$
Is it possible to fly a plane backwards if you have really really strong headwind
Definition of "fly backward": "tail facing direction of travel".
Yes, it's possible, even with a fast plane (jet) and light headwind; easier vertically.
Proof:
"F-22Raptor flies backwards!"
"F-22 Raptor Slides Backwards At 2015 Melbourne Air Show"
"Sukhoi Su-35S Super-Flanker Extreme Flight Demonstration incl. Insane Kulbit Maneuver!!!"
"Full size plane doing 3D" or "Skip Stewart - Entire Performance - Battle Creek 2011"
Easier with RC - "Fighter Jet does AMAZING stunts!" or "3D Jet Tail Touch"
answered Jun 6 at 23:14
RobRob
1513
New contributor
Rob is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
thanks for your answer. My meaning of 'flying backward' means you have the airspeed and positive airflow but the ground speed is backwards. Please check the meaning of 'airspeed' and 'ground speed' in aviation. But anyways, your videos are cool thx!
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 0:36
$begingroup$
@LeonardTan I hope that your question isn't a duplicate of this with the exception of the difference in speed (zero vs. backwards). Relative velocity but I wanted to clarify (for any naysayers) that I mean moving backwards as opposed to answer at Wikipedia. Glad you enjoyed the videos. I've seen a jet fly 15 feet above the ground forward (slowly) and backwards doing a tail stand but wasn't able to find an example video in the time available.
$endgroup$
– Rob
Jun 7 at 1:28
$begingroup$
youtube.com/watch?v=B0mcZEnnK_U
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 2:22
$begingroup$
youtube.com/watch?v=fr1Jl1jwLDg
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 2:22
$begingroup$
Above are some example videos
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 2:23
|
show 5 more comments
$begingroup$
Is it possible to fly a plane backwards if you have really really strong headwind
Definition of "fly backward": "tail facing direction of travel".
Yes, it's possible, even with a fast plane (jet) and light headwind; easier vertically.
Proof:
"F-22Raptor flies backwards!"
"F-22 Raptor Slides Backwards At 2015 Melbourne Air Show"
"Sukhoi Su-35S Super-Flanker Extreme Flight Demonstration incl. Insane Kulbit Maneuver!!!"
"Full size plane doing 3D" or "Skip Stewart - Entire Performance - Battle Creek 2011"
Easier with RC - "Fighter Jet does AMAZING stunts!" or "3D Jet Tail Touch"
answered Jun 6 at 23:14
RobRob
1513
New contributor
Rob is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
Is it possible to fly a plane backwards if you have really really strong headwind
Definition of "fly backward": "tail facing direction of travel".
Yes, it's possible, even with a fast plane (jet) and light headwind; easier vertically.
Proof:
"F-22Raptor flies backwards!"
"F-22 Raptor Slides Backwards At 2015 Melbourne Air Show"
"Sukhoi Su-35S Super-Flanker Extreme Flight Demonstration incl. Insane Kulbit Maneuver!!!"
"Full size plane doing 3D" or "Skip Stewart - Entire Performance - Battle Creek 2011"
Easier with RC - "Fighter Jet does AMAZING stunts!" or "3D Jet Tail Touch"
answered Jun 6 at 23:14
RobRob
1513
New contributor
Rob is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered Jun 6 at 23:14
RobRob
1513
New contributor
Rob is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered Jun 6 at 23:14
RobRob
1513
answered Jun 6 at 23:14
RobRob
1513
1513
New contributor
Rob is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Rob is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$begingroup$
thanks for your answer. My meaning of 'flying backward' means you have the airspeed and positive airflow but the ground speed is backwards. Please check the meaning of 'airspeed' and 'ground speed' in aviation. But anyways, your videos are cool thx!
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 0:36
$begingroup$
@LeonardTan I hope that your question isn't a duplicate of this with the exception of the difference in speed (zero vs. backwards). Relative velocity but I wanted to clarify (for any naysayers) that I mean moving backwards as opposed to answer at Wikipedia. Glad you enjoyed the videos. I've seen a jet fly 15 feet above the ground forward (slowly) and backwards doing a tail stand but wasn't able to find an example video in the time available.
$endgroup$
– Rob
Jun 7 at 1:28
$begingroup$
youtube.com/watch?v=B0mcZEnnK_U
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 2:22
$begingroup$
youtube.com/watch?v=fr1Jl1jwLDg
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 2:22
$begingroup$
Above are some example videos
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 2:23
|
show 5 more comments
$begingroup$
thanks for your answer. My meaning of 'flying backward' means you have the airspeed and positive airflow but the ground speed is backwards. Please check the meaning of 'airspeed' and 'ground speed' in aviation. But anyways, your videos are cool thx!
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 0:36
$begingroup$
@LeonardTan I hope that your question isn't a duplicate of this with the exception of the difference in speed (zero vs. backwards). Relative velocity but I wanted to clarify (for any naysayers) that I mean moving backwards as opposed to answer at Wikipedia. Glad you enjoyed the videos. I've seen a jet fly 15 feet above the ground forward (slowly) and backwards doing a tail stand but wasn't able to find an example video in the time available.
$endgroup$
– Rob
Jun 7 at 1:28
$begingroup$
youtube.com/watch?v=B0mcZEnnK_U
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 2:22
$begingroup$
youtube.com/watch?v=fr1Jl1jwLDg
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 2:22
$begingroup$
Above are some example videos
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 2:23
$begingroup$
thanks for your answer. My meaning of 'flying backward' means you have the airspeed and positive airflow but the ground speed is backwards. Please check the meaning of 'airspeed' and 'ground speed' in aviation. But anyways, your videos are cool thx!
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 0:36
$begingroup$
thanks for your answer. My meaning of 'flying backward' means you have the airspeed and positive airflow but the ground speed is backwards. Please check the meaning of 'airspeed' and 'ground speed' in aviation. But anyways, your videos are cool thx!
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 0:36
$begingroup$
@LeonardTan I hope that your question isn't a duplicate of this with the exception of the difference in speed (zero vs. backwards). Relative velocity but I wanted to clarify (for any naysayers) that I mean moving backwards as opposed to answer at Wikipedia. Glad you enjoyed the videos. I've seen a jet fly 15 feet above the ground forward (slowly) and backwards doing a tail stand but wasn't able to find an example video in the time available.
$endgroup$
– Rob
Jun 7 at 1:28
$begingroup$
@LeonardTan I hope that your question isn't a duplicate of this with the exception of the difference in speed (zero vs. backwards). Relative velocity but I wanted to clarify (for any naysayers) that I mean moving backwards as opposed to answer at Wikipedia. Glad you enjoyed the videos. I've seen a jet fly 15 feet above the ground forward (slowly) and backwards doing a tail stand but wasn't able to find an example video in the time available.
$endgroup$
– Rob
Jun 7 at 1:28
$begingroup$
youtube.com/watch?v=B0mcZEnnK_U
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 2:22
$begingroup$
youtube.com/watch?v=B0mcZEnnK_U
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 2:22
$begingroup$
youtube.com/watch?v=fr1Jl1jwLDg
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 2:22
$begingroup$
youtube.com/watch?v=fr1Jl1jwLDg
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 2:22
$begingroup$
Above are some example videos
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 2:23
$begingroup$
Above are some example videos
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 2:23
|
show 5 more comments
$begingroup$
This can happen with a glider (sailplane) winch-launching into a strong wind. Once the glider is airborne, and up into the faster wind, the winch can be slowed to a stop, and even payed-out again. For obvious reasons, this is called 'kiting', or a 'kite launch'. Some pre-planning or radio communication between the winch driver and pilot is useful to get the maximum height out of this manoeuvre.
answered Jun 6 at 16:17
Neil_UKNeil_UK
25914
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I tried that once (winch launch in strong winds), miscalculated when returning and darn near landed in the trees just before the field threshold.
$endgroup$
– Juan Jimenez
Jun 6 at 16:21
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This can happen with a glider (sailplane) winch-launching into a strong wind. Once the glider is airborne, and up into the faster wind, the winch can be slowed to a stop, and even payed-out again. For obvious reasons, this is called 'kiting', or a 'kite launch'. Some pre-planning or radio communication between the winch driver and pilot is useful to get the maximum height out of this manoeuvre.
answered Jun 6 at 16:17
Neil_UKNeil_UK
25914
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I tried that once (winch launch in strong winds), miscalculated when returning and darn near landed in the trees just before the field threshold.
$endgroup$
– Juan Jimenez
Jun 6 at 16:21
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This can happen with a glider (sailplane) winch-launching into a strong wind. Once the glider is airborne, and up into the faster wind, the winch can be slowed to a stop, and even payed-out again. For obvious reasons, this is called 'kiting', or a 'kite launch'. Some pre-planning or radio communication between the winch driver and pilot is useful to get the maximum height out of this manoeuvre.
answered Jun 6 at 16:17
Neil_UKNeil_UK
25914
$endgroup$
This can happen with a glider (sailplane) winch-launching into a strong wind. Once the glider is airborne, and up into the faster wind, the winch can be slowed to a stop, and even payed-out again. For obvious reasons, this is called 'kiting', or a 'kite launch'. Some pre-planning or radio communication between the winch driver and pilot is useful to get the maximum height out of this manoeuvre.
answered Jun 6 at 16:17
Neil_UKNeil_UK
25914
answered Jun 6 at 16:17
Neil_UKNeil_UK
25914
answered Jun 6 at 16:17
Neil_UKNeil_UK
25914
answered Jun 6 at 16:17
Neil_UKNeil_UK
25914
25914
$begingroup$
I tried that once (winch launch in strong winds), miscalculated when returning and darn near landed in the trees just before the field threshold.
$endgroup$
– Juan Jimenez
Jun 6 at 16:21
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I tried that once (winch launch in strong winds), miscalculated when returning and darn near landed in the trees just before the field threshold.
$endgroup$
– Juan Jimenez
Jun 6 at 16:21
$begingroup$
I tried that once (winch launch in strong winds), miscalculated when returning and darn near landed in the trees just before the field threshold.
$endgroup$
– Juan Jimenez
Jun 6 at 16:21
$begingroup$
I tried that once (winch launch in strong winds), miscalculated when returning and darn near landed in the trees just before the field threshold.
$endgroup$
– Juan Jimenez
Jun 6 at 16:21
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It's not related to groundspeed as is being upvoted as groundspeed is simply the byproduct of the event.
IF the headwind is greater than the windspeed needed to create lift and no further propulsion is provided the aircraft will move backward while flying.
edited Jun 7 at 22:30
ymb1
74.6k7243401
answered Jun 7 at 21:42
Steve GulukSteve Guluk
1
New contributor
Steve Guluk is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It's not related to groundspeed as is being upvoted as groundspeed is simply the byproduct of the event.
IF the headwind is greater than the windspeed needed to create lift and no further propulsion is provided the aircraft will move backward while flying.
edited Jun 7 at 22:30
ymb1
74.6k7243401
answered Jun 7 at 21:42
Steve GulukSteve Guluk
1
New contributor
Steve Guluk is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It's not related to groundspeed as is being upvoted as groundspeed is simply the byproduct of the event.
IF the headwind is greater than the windspeed needed to create lift and no further propulsion is provided the aircraft will move backward while flying.
edited Jun 7 at 22:30
ymb1
74.6k7243401
answered Jun 7 at 21:42
Steve GulukSteve Guluk
1
New contributor
Steve Guluk is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
It's not related to groundspeed as is being upvoted as groundspeed is simply the byproduct of the event.
IF the headwind is greater than the windspeed needed to create lift and no further propulsion is provided the aircraft will move backward while flying.
edited Jun 7 at 22:30
ymb1
74.6k7243401
answered Jun 7 at 21:42
Steve GulukSteve Guluk
1
New contributor
Steve Guluk is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited Jun 7 at 22:30
ymb1
74.6k7243401
edited Jun 7 at 22:30
ymb1
74.6k7243401
edited Jun 7 at 22:30
ymb1
74.6k7243401
74.6k7243401
answered Jun 7 at 21:42
Steve GulukSteve Guluk
1
New contributor
Steve Guluk is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered Jun 7 at 21:42
Steve GulukSteve Guluk
1
answered Jun 7 at 21:42
Steve GulukSteve Guluk
1
1
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$begingroup$
No. The question asks "Is it possible to fly a plane backwards...", to which the answer is no, for all conventional aircraft (those that depend on airflow over the wing). Every answer including the word "yes" then goes on to talk about motion over the ground. Why? The aircraft is flying through the air and has absolutely no relation to the ground. The question did not ask about ground motion.
For anything flying in a steady wind, there is no such thing as wind. It is impossible for the aircraft to be affected by the wind, nor for any person or device in that aircraft to detect that wind, without an external frame of reference (observing ground motion, navigation equipment, stars...). The ground is moving relative to your flight path, yes, but you're not on the ground.
In a steady wind: You are flying in still air. The still air in which you are flying, is moving over the ground.
answered Jun 6 at 16:43
a.outa.out
19716
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Normally you want to fly from point A to point B, flying backward in the question, obviously means moving away instead of getting closer to the destination, and this is true.
$endgroup$
– user40476
Jun 6 at 18:33
4
$begingroup$
The term headwind implies ground as reference.
$endgroup$
– bogl
Jun 6 at 19:13
$begingroup$
@a.out yes you are right. In the terms of headwind is that there is no relationship to the ground.
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 0:39
$begingroup$
It's important to make a clear distinction between flying (through the air) and tracking (over the ground). Wind affects the latter but not the former. To mix the two terms feeds the misconception, widely held by the public and even by some pilots (and the downvoters), that wind somehow affects flight: the dreaded, and mythical, "downwind turn". So in absence of a reference to the ground in the original question (which has since beed edited by the OP to include it), the answer is "no".
$endgroup$
– a.out
Jun 7 at 16:53
$begingroup$
Downvoting because OP was in fact talking about ground speed, and "no such thing as wind" and saying wind doesn't "affect the flight" is way oversimplifying the question of reference frames. In everyday situations there are lots of concerns like winds aloft, gusts, windshear, sideslip and navigation concerns where insisting on everything in wind frame doesn't make sense. It's like saying we can't mention a "stall speed" when talking about stall, or saying either rotating reference frame or an inertial frame is superior for questions on wing loading in turns or the Coriolis effect.
$endgroup$
– Cody P
Jun 8 at 0:47
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No. The question asks "Is it possible to fly a plane backwards...", to which the answer is no, for all conventional aircraft (those that depend on airflow over the wing). Every answer including the word "yes" then goes on to talk about motion over the ground. Why? The aircraft is flying through the air and has absolutely no relation to the ground. The question did not ask about ground motion.
For anything flying in a steady wind, there is no such thing as wind. It is impossible for the aircraft to be affected by the wind, nor for any person or device in that aircraft to detect that wind, without an external frame of reference (observing ground motion, navigation equipment, stars...). The ground is moving relative to your flight path, yes, but you're not on the ground.
In a steady wind: You are flying in still air. The still air in which you are flying, is moving over the ground.
answered Jun 6 at 16:43
a.outa.out
19716
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Normally you want to fly from point A to point B, flying backward in the question, obviously means moving away instead of getting closer to the destination, and this is true.
$endgroup$
– user40476
Jun 6 at 18:33
4
$begingroup$
The term headwind implies ground as reference.
$endgroup$
– bogl
Jun 6 at 19:13
$begingroup$
@a.out yes you are right. In the terms of headwind is that there is no relationship to the ground.
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 0:39
$begingroup$
It's important to make a clear distinction between flying (through the air) and tracking (over the ground). Wind affects the latter but not the former. To mix the two terms feeds the misconception, widely held by the public and even by some pilots (and the downvoters), that wind somehow affects flight: the dreaded, and mythical, "downwind turn". So in absence of a reference to the ground in the original question (which has since beed edited by the OP to include it), the answer is "no".
$endgroup$
– a.out
Jun 7 at 16:53
$begingroup$
Downvoting because OP was in fact talking about ground speed, and "no such thing as wind" and saying wind doesn't "affect the flight" is way oversimplifying the question of reference frames. In everyday situations there are lots of concerns like winds aloft, gusts, windshear, sideslip and navigation concerns where insisting on everything in wind frame doesn't make sense. It's like saying we can't mention a "stall speed" when talking about stall, or saying either rotating reference frame or an inertial frame is superior for questions on wing loading in turns or the Coriolis effect.
$endgroup$
– Cody P
Jun 8 at 0:47
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No. The question asks "Is it possible to fly a plane backwards...", to which the answer is no, for all conventional aircraft (those that depend on airflow over the wing). Every answer including the word "yes" then goes on to talk about motion over the ground. Why? The aircraft is flying through the air and has absolutely no relation to the ground. The question did not ask about ground motion.
For anything flying in a steady wind, there is no such thing as wind. It is impossible for the aircraft to be affected by the wind, nor for any person or device in that aircraft to detect that wind, without an external frame of reference (observing ground motion, navigation equipment, stars...). The ground is moving relative to your flight path, yes, but you're not on the ground.
In a steady wind: You are flying in still air. The still air in which you are flying, is moving over the ground.
answered Jun 6 at 16:43
a.outa.out
19716
$endgroup$
No. The question asks "Is it possible to fly a plane backwards...", to which the answer is no, for all conventional aircraft (those that depend on airflow over the wing). Every answer including the word "yes" then goes on to talk about motion over the ground. Why? The aircraft is flying through the air and has absolutely no relation to the ground. The question did not ask about ground motion.
For anything flying in a steady wind, there is no such thing as wind. It is impossible for the aircraft to be affected by the wind, nor for any person or device in that aircraft to detect that wind, without an external frame of reference (observing ground motion, navigation equipment, stars...). The ground is moving relative to your flight path, yes, but you're not on the ground.
In a steady wind: You are flying in still air. The still air in which you are flying, is moving over the ground.
answered Jun 6 at 16:43
a.outa.out
19716
answered Jun 6 at 16:43
a.outa.out
19716
answered Jun 6 at 16:43
a.outa.out
19716
answered Jun 6 at 16:43
a.outa.out
19716
19716
1
$begingroup$
Normally you want to fly from point A to point B, flying backward in the question, obviously means moving away instead of getting closer to the destination, and this is true.
$endgroup$
– user40476
Jun 6 at 18:33
4
$begingroup$
The term headwind implies ground as reference.
$endgroup$
– bogl
Jun 6 at 19:13
$begingroup$
@a.out yes you are right. In the terms of headwind is that there is no relationship to the ground.
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 0:39
$begingroup$
It's important to make a clear distinction between flying (through the air) and tracking (over the ground). Wind affects the latter but not the former. To mix the two terms feeds the misconception, widely held by the public and even by some pilots (and the downvoters), that wind somehow affects flight: the dreaded, and mythical, "downwind turn". So in absence of a reference to the ground in the original question (which has since beed edited by the OP to include it), the answer is "no".
$endgroup$
– a.out
Jun 7 at 16:53
$begingroup$
Downvoting because OP was in fact talking about ground speed, and "no such thing as wind" and saying wind doesn't "affect the flight" is way oversimplifying the question of reference frames. In everyday situations there are lots of concerns like winds aloft, gusts, windshear, sideslip and navigation concerns where insisting on everything in wind frame doesn't make sense. It's like saying we can't mention a "stall speed" when talking about stall, or saying either rotating reference frame or an inertial frame is superior for questions on wing loading in turns or the Coriolis effect.
$endgroup$
– Cody P
Jun 8 at 0:47
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
Normally you want to fly from point A to point B, flying backward in the question, obviously means moving away instead of getting closer to the destination, and this is true.
$endgroup$
– user40476
Jun 6 at 18:33
4
$begingroup$
The term headwind implies ground as reference.
$endgroup$
– bogl
Jun 6 at 19:13
$begingroup$
@a.out yes you are right. In the terms of headwind is that there is no relationship to the ground.
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 0:39
$begingroup$
It's important to make a clear distinction between flying (through the air) and tracking (over the ground). Wind affects the latter but not the former. To mix the two terms feeds the misconception, widely held by the public and even by some pilots (and the downvoters), that wind somehow affects flight: the dreaded, and mythical, "downwind turn". So in absence of a reference to the ground in the original question (which has since beed edited by the OP to include it), the answer is "no".
$endgroup$
– a.out
Jun 7 at 16:53
$begingroup$
Downvoting because OP was in fact talking about ground speed, and "no such thing as wind" and saying wind doesn't "affect the flight" is way oversimplifying the question of reference frames. In everyday situations there are lots of concerns like winds aloft, gusts, windshear, sideslip and navigation concerns where insisting on everything in wind frame doesn't make sense. It's like saying we can't mention a "stall speed" when talking about stall, or saying either rotating reference frame or an inertial frame is superior for questions on wing loading in turns or the Coriolis effect.
$endgroup$
– Cody P
Jun 8 at 0:47
1
1
$begingroup$
Normally you want to fly from point A to point B, flying backward in the question, obviously means moving away instead of getting closer to the destination, and this is true.
$endgroup$
– user40476
Jun 6 at 18:33
$begingroup$
Normally you want to fly from point A to point B, flying backward in the question, obviously means moving away instead of getting closer to the destination, and this is true.
$endgroup$
– user40476
Jun 6 at 18:33
4
4
$begingroup$
The term headwind implies ground as reference.
$endgroup$
– bogl
Jun 6 at 19:13
$begingroup$
The term headwind implies ground as reference.
$endgroup$
– bogl
Jun 6 at 19:13
$begingroup$
@a.out yes you are right. In the terms of headwind is that there is no relationship to the ground.
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 0:39
$begingroup$
@a.out yes you are right. In the terms of headwind is that there is no relationship to the ground.
$endgroup$
– Leonard Tan
Jun 7 at 0:39
$begingroup$
It's important to make a clear distinction between flying (through the air) and tracking (over the ground). Wind affects the latter but not the former. To mix the two terms feeds the misconception, widely held by the public and even by some pilots (and the downvoters), that wind somehow affects flight: the dreaded, and mythical, "downwind turn". So in absence of a reference to the ground in the original question (which has since beed edited by the OP to include it), the answer is "no".
$endgroup$
– a.out
Jun 7 at 16:53
$begingroup$
It's important to make a clear distinction between flying (through the air) and tracking (over the ground). Wind affects the latter but not the former. To mix the two terms feeds the misconception, widely held by the public and even by some pilots (and the downvoters), that wind somehow affects flight: the dreaded, and mythical, "downwind turn". So in absence of a reference to the ground in the original question (which has since beed edited by the OP to include it), the answer is "no".
$endgroup$
– a.out
Jun 7 at 16:53
$begingroup$
Downvoting because OP was in fact talking about ground speed, and "no such thing as wind" and saying wind doesn't "affect the flight" is way oversimplifying the question of reference frames. In everyday situations there are lots of concerns like winds aloft, gusts, windshear, sideslip and navigation concerns where insisting on everything in wind frame doesn't make sense. It's like saying we can't mention a "stall speed" when talking about stall, or saying either rotating reference frame or an inertial frame is superior for questions on wing loading in turns or the Coriolis effect.
$endgroup$
– Cody P
Jun 8 at 0:47
$begingroup$
Downvoting because OP was in fact talking about ground speed, and "no such thing as wind" and saying wind doesn't "affect the flight" is way oversimplifying the question of reference frames. In everyday situations there are lots of concerns like winds aloft, gusts, windshear, sideslip and navigation concerns where insisting on everything in wind frame doesn't make sense. It's like saying we can't mention a "stall speed" when talking about stall, or saying either rotating reference frame or an inertial frame is superior for questions on wing loading in turns or the Coriolis effect.
$endgroup$
– Cody P
Jun 8 at 0:47
add a comment |
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16
$begingroup$
Yes, it's possible and I witnessed it with ultralights but you are missing two keywords steady and ** non-turbulent**, Otherwise a really string wind wind ill make you fly backward, upward, downward...
$endgroup$
– jean
Jun 6 at 11:12
6
$begingroup$
Backward with respect to which reference frame?
$endgroup$
– Jörg W Mittag
Jun 6 at 14:25
5
$begingroup$
I some microlight pilots claim to have flown 'vertical circuits', taking off into a strong headwind, slowing on climbout so that they are pushed back along the length of the runway until they are in a position to make a very steep final approach
$endgroup$
– Dave Gremlin
Jun 6 at 17:48
16
$begingroup$
Prospective An2 owner detected...
$endgroup$
– Harper
Jun 6 at 18:46
5
$begingroup$
I once spent half an hour watching a raven doing this, apparently "just for fun". Start from perching on a stone wall, take off and climb at about 45 degrees going backwards, crab sideways at 90 degrees to the wind direction, then do a cross wind landing approach back to the starting point. It flew about 10 of these "circuits" before (presumably) it got bored and flew off somewhere else.
$endgroup$
– alephzero
Jun 7 at 11:43