An iteration formula I found (please don't jump at me if it's already been discovered)
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An iteration formula I found (please don't jump at me if it's already been discovered)
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
$begingroup$
$sin^2 theta$">
Where the modulus-like symbol actually denotes iteration of a radical function. Sorry for the messy work everyone- I am new to this stuff, and I literally just found this iteration formula like 15 minutes ago. $X[i]$ starts as being an arbitrary number greater than $n!/(n-2)!$ which I should have mentioned earlier but didn't have space to (apologies).
So the business is: you start with a number e.g. 1, then if you want to find say $50$, you compute $sqrt(1 + 50!/48!)$ then replace $1$ on your calculator with the result you just got a.k.a. $Ans$ etc. and keep iterating till you get (at a surprisingly fast convergence rate!) the very number you started with, n.
I appreciate this might not be the most interesting insight or $n!/(n-2)!$ is probably just me not realising that it could also be presented as $n(n-1) = n^2-n$. But still, please don't mass-downvote it all, remember it's a 15-year old person who figured this out...
conjectures
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
$sin^2 theta$">
Where the modulus-like symbol actually denotes iteration of a radical function. Sorry for the messy work everyone- I am new to this stuff, and I literally just found this iteration formula like 15 minutes ago. $X[i]$ starts as being an arbitrary number greater than $n!/(n-2)!$ which I should have mentioned earlier but didn't have space to (apologies).
So the business is: you start with a number e.g. 1, then if you want to find say $50$, you compute $sqrt(1 + 50!/48!)$ then replace $1$ on your calculator with the result you just got a.k.a. $Ans$ etc. and keep iterating till you get (at a surprisingly fast convergence rate!) the very number you started with, n.
I appreciate this might not be the most interesting insight or $n!/(n-2)!$ is probably just me not realising that it could also be presented as $n(n-1) = n^2-n$. But still, please don't mass-downvote it all, remember it's a 15-year old person who figured this out...
conjectures
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Note: $n!/(n-2)!=n(n-1)$, so the factorials are unnecessary.
$endgroup$
– quasi
Jul 27 at 22:05
$begingroup$
Ah right. I kind of realised this earlier on, shouldn't have posted this whole thread I guess ....
$endgroup$
– Avtarás Karîm Elymés̱er
Jul 28 at 8:41
add a comment |
$begingroup$
$sin^2 theta$">
Where the modulus-like symbol actually denotes iteration of a radical function. Sorry for the messy work everyone- I am new to this stuff, and I literally just found this iteration formula like 15 minutes ago. $X[i]$ starts as being an arbitrary number greater than $n!/(n-2)!$ which I should have mentioned earlier but didn't have space to (apologies).
So the business is: you start with a number e.g. 1, then if you want to find say $50$, you compute $sqrt(1 + 50!/48!)$ then replace $1$ on your calculator with the result you just got a.k.a. $Ans$ etc. and keep iterating till you get (at a surprisingly fast convergence rate!) the very number you started with, n.
I appreciate this might not be the most interesting insight or $n!/(n-2)!$ is probably just me not realising that it could also be presented as $n(n-1) = n^2-n$. But still, please don't mass-downvote it all, remember it's a 15-year old person who figured this out...
conjectures
$endgroup$
$sin^2 theta$">
Where the modulus-like symbol actually denotes iteration of a radical function. Sorry for the messy work everyone- I am new to this stuff, and I literally just found this iteration formula like 15 minutes ago. $X[i]$ starts as being an arbitrary number greater than $n!/(n-2)!$ which I should have mentioned earlier but didn't have space to (apologies).
So the business is: you start with a number e.g. 1, then if you want to find say $50$, you compute $sqrt(1 + 50!/48!)$ then replace $1$ on your calculator with the result you just got a.k.a. $Ans$ etc. and keep iterating till you get (at a surprisingly fast convergence rate!) the very number you started with, n.
I appreciate this might not be the most interesting insight or $n!/(n-2)!$ is probably just me not realising that it could also be presented as $n(n-1) = n^2-n$. But still, please don't mass-downvote it all, remember it's a 15-year old person who figured this out...
conjectures
conjectures
edited Jul 28 at 8:37
Avtarás Karîm Elymés̱er
asked Jul 27 at 21:52
Avtarás Karîm Elymés̱erAvtarás Karîm Elymés̱er
344 bronze badges
344 bronze badges
1
$begingroup$
Note: $n!/(n-2)!=n(n-1)$, so the factorials are unnecessary.
$endgroup$
– quasi
Jul 27 at 22:05
$begingroup$
Ah right. I kind of realised this earlier on, shouldn't have posted this whole thread I guess ....
$endgroup$
– Avtarás Karîm Elymés̱er
Jul 28 at 8:41
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
Note: $n!/(n-2)!=n(n-1)$, so the factorials are unnecessary.
$endgroup$
– quasi
Jul 27 at 22:05
$begingroup$
Ah right. I kind of realised this earlier on, shouldn't have posted this whole thread I guess ....
$endgroup$
– Avtarás Karîm Elymés̱er
Jul 28 at 8:41
1
1
$begingroup$
Note: $n!/(n-2)!=n(n-1)$, so the factorials are unnecessary.
$endgroup$
– quasi
Jul 27 at 22:05
$begingroup$
Note: $n!/(n-2)!=n(n-1)$, so the factorials are unnecessary.
$endgroup$
– quasi
Jul 27 at 22:05
$begingroup$
Ah right. I kind of realised this earlier on, shouldn't have posted this whole thread I guess ....
$endgroup$
– Avtarás Karîm Elymés̱er
Jul 28 at 8:41
$begingroup$
Ah right. I kind of realised this earlier on, shouldn't have posted this whole thread I guess ....
$endgroup$
– Avtarás Karîm Elymés̱er
Jul 28 at 8:41
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
You can do this formally by just looking at
$$sqrtn!/(n-2)!+sqrtn!/(n-2)! + dots$$
and so on to infinity. Suppose this has a limit. Then we'd expect that
$$L=sqrtn!/(n-2)! + L$$
This gives
$$L^2-L=n!/(n-2)!=n^2-n$$
which has the obvious solution of $L=n$.
Analytically, this could be done with some sort of fixpoint theorem (such as the Banach fixed-point theorem), setting
$$f(x)=sqrtn!/(n-2)! + x$$
and using it to show that $lim_mto inftyunderbracef(cdots f(x)cdots)_mtext times$ is the solution to the fixpoint equation
$$f(L)=L.$$
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
@PeterForeman My answer was just for intuition, hence why I say "formally" and "suppose this has a limit." I gave the fleshing of an analytical proof if the OP wanted to prove it rigorously.
$endgroup$
– Will Fisher
Jul 27 at 22:25
$begingroup$
Thank you very much- it's just fine, I didn't particularly ask for the utmost of mathematical vigour. But I like your answer, and I appreciate the time you've taken to show this. Interesting ;)
$endgroup$
– Avtarás Karîm Elymés̱er
Jul 28 at 8:40
add a comment |
$begingroup$
So you're saying that the sequence
$$X_0=1$$
$$X_k+1=sqrtX_k+fracn!(n-2)!$$
tends to towards $n$. Firstly notice that
$$fracn!(n-2)!=n(n-1)=n^2-n$$
Hence your sequence is equivalent to
$$X_k+1=sqrtX_k+n^2-n$$
Then note that for $0le X_klt n$ we have
$$X_kltsqrtX_k+n^2-nlt n$$
So your sequence is strictly increasing and bounded above. Also note that
$$sqrtn+n^2-n=sqrtn^2=n$$
Hence the sequence has a stationary point at $X_k=n$. This is sufficient to prove that for a given initial value $0le X_0le n$ the sequence tends to $n$. In other words
$$lim_ktoinftyX_k=n$$
In fact one can prove that this sequence tends to $n$ for any initial value by also using the fact that $sqrtX_k+n^2-nlt X_k$ when $X_kgt n$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
You can do this formally by just looking at
$$sqrtn!/(n-2)!+sqrtn!/(n-2)! + dots$$
and so on to infinity. Suppose this has a limit. Then we'd expect that
$$L=sqrtn!/(n-2)! + L$$
This gives
$$L^2-L=n!/(n-2)!=n^2-n$$
which has the obvious solution of $L=n$.
Analytically, this could be done with some sort of fixpoint theorem (such as the Banach fixed-point theorem), setting
$$f(x)=sqrtn!/(n-2)! + x$$
and using it to show that $lim_mto inftyunderbracef(cdots f(x)cdots)_mtext times$ is the solution to the fixpoint equation
$$f(L)=L.$$
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
@PeterForeman My answer was just for intuition, hence why I say "formally" and "suppose this has a limit." I gave the fleshing of an analytical proof if the OP wanted to prove it rigorously.
$endgroup$
– Will Fisher
Jul 27 at 22:25
$begingroup$
Thank you very much- it's just fine, I didn't particularly ask for the utmost of mathematical vigour. But I like your answer, and I appreciate the time you've taken to show this. Interesting ;)
$endgroup$
– Avtarás Karîm Elymés̱er
Jul 28 at 8:40
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You can do this formally by just looking at
$$sqrtn!/(n-2)!+sqrtn!/(n-2)! + dots$$
and so on to infinity. Suppose this has a limit. Then we'd expect that
$$L=sqrtn!/(n-2)! + L$$
This gives
$$L^2-L=n!/(n-2)!=n^2-n$$
which has the obvious solution of $L=n$.
Analytically, this could be done with some sort of fixpoint theorem (such as the Banach fixed-point theorem), setting
$$f(x)=sqrtn!/(n-2)! + x$$
and using it to show that $lim_mto inftyunderbracef(cdots f(x)cdots)_mtext times$ is the solution to the fixpoint equation
$$f(L)=L.$$
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
@PeterForeman My answer was just for intuition, hence why I say "formally" and "suppose this has a limit." I gave the fleshing of an analytical proof if the OP wanted to prove it rigorously.
$endgroup$
– Will Fisher
Jul 27 at 22:25
$begingroup$
Thank you very much- it's just fine, I didn't particularly ask for the utmost of mathematical vigour. But I like your answer, and I appreciate the time you've taken to show this. Interesting ;)
$endgroup$
– Avtarás Karîm Elymés̱er
Jul 28 at 8:40
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You can do this formally by just looking at
$$sqrtn!/(n-2)!+sqrtn!/(n-2)! + dots$$
and so on to infinity. Suppose this has a limit. Then we'd expect that
$$L=sqrtn!/(n-2)! + L$$
This gives
$$L^2-L=n!/(n-2)!=n^2-n$$
which has the obvious solution of $L=n$.
Analytically, this could be done with some sort of fixpoint theorem (such as the Banach fixed-point theorem), setting
$$f(x)=sqrtn!/(n-2)! + x$$
and using it to show that $lim_mto inftyunderbracef(cdots f(x)cdots)_mtext times$ is the solution to the fixpoint equation
$$f(L)=L.$$
$endgroup$
You can do this formally by just looking at
$$sqrtn!/(n-2)!+sqrtn!/(n-2)! + dots$$
and so on to infinity. Suppose this has a limit. Then we'd expect that
$$L=sqrtn!/(n-2)! + L$$
This gives
$$L^2-L=n!/(n-2)!=n^2-n$$
which has the obvious solution of $L=n$.
Analytically, this could be done with some sort of fixpoint theorem (such as the Banach fixed-point theorem), setting
$$f(x)=sqrtn!/(n-2)! + x$$
and using it to show that $lim_mto inftyunderbracef(cdots f(x)cdots)_mtext times$ is the solution to the fixpoint equation
$$f(L)=L.$$
answered Jul 27 at 22:01
Will FisherWill Fisher
4,1481 gold badge11 silver badges32 bronze badges
4,1481 gold badge11 silver badges32 bronze badges
1
$begingroup$
@PeterForeman My answer was just for intuition, hence why I say "formally" and "suppose this has a limit." I gave the fleshing of an analytical proof if the OP wanted to prove it rigorously.
$endgroup$
– Will Fisher
Jul 27 at 22:25
$begingroup$
Thank you very much- it's just fine, I didn't particularly ask for the utmost of mathematical vigour. But I like your answer, and I appreciate the time you've taken to show this. Interesting ;)
$endgroup$
– Avtarás Karîm Elymés̱er
Jul 28 at 8:40
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
@PeterForeman My answer was just for intuition, hence why I say "formally" and "suppose this has a limit." I gave the fleshing of an analytical proof if the OP wanted to prove it rigorously.
$endgroup$
– Will Fisher
Jul 27 at 22:25
$begingroup$
Thank you very much- it's just fine, I didn't particularly ask for the utmost of mathematical vigour. But I like your answer, and I appreciate the time you've taken to show this. Interesting ;)
$endgroup$
– Avtarás Karîm Elymés̱er
Jul 28 at 8:40
1
1
$begingroup$
@PeterForeman My answer was just for intuition, hence why I say "formally" and "suppose this has a limit." I gave the fleshing of an analytical proof if the OP wanted to prove it rigorously.
$endgroup$
– Will Fisher
Jul 27 at 22:25
$begingroup$
@PeterForeman My answer was just for intuition, hence why I say "formally" and "suppose this has a limit." I gave the fleshing of an analytical proof if the OP wanted to prove it rigorously.
$endgroup$
– Will Fisher
Jul 27 at 22:25
$begingroup$
Thank you very much- it's just fine, I didn't particularly ask for the utmost of mathematical vigour. But I like your answer, and I appreciate the time you've taken to show this. Interesting ;)
$endgroup$
– Avtarás Karîm Elymés̱er
Jul 28 at 8:40
$begingroup$
Thank you very much- it's just fine, I didn't particularly ask for the utmost of mathematical vigour. But I like your answer, and I appreciate the time you've taken to show this. Interesting ;)
$endgroup$
– Avtarás Karîm Elymés̱er
Jul 28 at 8:40
add a comment |
$begingroup$
So you're saying that the sequence
$$X_0=1$$
$$X_k+1=sqrtX_k+fracn!(n-2)!$$
tends to towards $n$. Firstly notice that
$$fracn!(n-2)!=n(n-1)=n^2-n$$
Hence your sequence is equivalent to
$$X_k+1=sqrtX_k+n^2-n$$
Then note that for $0le X_klt n$ we have
$$X_kltsqrtX_k+n^2-nlt n$$
So your sequence is strictly increasing and bounded above. Also note that
$$sqrtn+n^2-n=sqrtn^2=n$$
Hence the sequence has a stationary point at $X_k=n$. This is sufficient to prove that for a given initial value $0le X_0le n$ the sequence tends to $n$. In other words
$$lim_ktoinftyX_k=n$$
In fact one can prove that this sequence tends to $n$ for any initial value by also using the fact that $sqrtX_k+n^2-nlt X_k$ when $X_kgt n$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
So you're saying that the sequence
$$X_0=1$$
$$X_k+1=sqrtX_k+fracn!(n-2)!$$
tends to towards $n$. Firstly notice that
$$fracn!(n-2)!=n(n-1)=n^2-n$$
Hence your sequence is equivalent to
$$X_k+1=sqrtX_k+n^2-n$$
Then note that for $0le X_klt n$ we have
$$X_kltsqrtX_k+n^2-nlt n$$
So your sequence is strictly increasing and bounded above. Also note that
$$sqrtn+n^2-n=sqrtn^2=n$$
Hence the sequence has a stationary point at $X_k=n$. This is sufficient to prove that for a given initial value $0le X_0le n$ the sequence tends to $n$. In other words
$$lim_ktoinftyX_k=n$$
In fact one can prove that this sequence tends to $n$ for any initial value by also using the fact that $sqrtX_k+n^2-nlt X_k$ when $X_kgt n$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
So you're saying that the sequence
$$X_0=1$$
$$X_k+1=sqrtX_k+fracn!(n-2)!$$
tends to towards $n$. Firstly notice that
$$fracn!(n-2)!=n(n-1)=n^2-n$$
Hence your sequence is equivalent to
$$X_k+1=sqrtX_k+n^2-n$$
Then note that for $0le X_klt n$ we have
$$X_kltsqrtX_k+n^2-nlt n$$
So your sequence is strictly increasing and bounded above. Also note that
$$sqrtn+n^2-n=sqrtn^2=n$$
Hence the sequence has a stationary point at $X_k=n$. This is sufficient to prove that for a given initial value $0le X_0le n$ the sequence tends to $n$. In other words
$$lim_ktoinftyX_k=n$$
In fact one can prove that this sequence tends to $n$ for any initial value by also using the fact that $sqrtX_k+n^2-nlt X_k$ when $X_kgt n$.
$endgroup$
So you're saying that the sequence
$$X_0=1$$
$$X_k+1=sqrtX_k+fracn!(n-2)!$$
tends to towards $n$. Firstly notice that
$$fracn!(n-2)!=n(n-1)=n^2-n$$
Hence your sequence is equivalent to
$$X_k+1=sqrtX_k+n^2-n$$
Then note that for $0le X_klt n$ we have
$$X_kltsqrtX_k+n^2-nlt n$$
So your sequence is strictly increasing and bounded above. Also note that
$$sqrtn+n^2-n=sqrtn^2=n$$
Hence the sequence has a stationary point at $X_k=n$. This is sufficient to prove that for a given initial value $0le X_0le n$ the sequence tends to $n$. In other words
$$lim_ktoinftyX_k=n$$
In fact one can prove that this sequence tends to $n$ for any initial value by also using the fact that $sqrtX_k+n^2-nlt X_k$ when $X_kgt n$.
edited Jul 27 at 22:18
answered Jul 27 at 22:06
Peter ForemanPeter Foreman
14.2k1 gold badge5 silver badges31 bronze badges
14.2k1 gold badge5 silver badges31 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
Note: $n!/(n-2)!=n(n-1)$, so the factorials are unnecessary.
$endgroup$
– quasi
Jul 27 at 22:05
$begingroup$
Ah right. I kind of realised this earlier on, shouldn't have posted this whole thread I guess ....
$endgroup$
– Avtarás Karîm Elymés̱er
Jul 28 at 8:41