Basic properties of expectation in non-separable Banach spacesIs there a version of Fischer-Riesz theorem for Banach space?Conditional expectation of random vectorsCyl(E) = Borel(E) for E non-reflexive Grothendieck Banach spaceSymmetries of probability distributionsIf $ F(x,bullet) in L^infty(G,B) $ for all $ x in G $, then is $ x mapsto F(x,bullet) $ strongly measurable?Measurability of integrals with respect to different measuresConditional Expectation Relative to “Random Time” - Consistency of the Substitution RuleExtending a weak*-converging sequence onto a superspaceA formula for vector valued measurable functionsIs there a version of Fischer-Riesz theorem for Banach space?

Basic properties of expectation in non-separable Banach spaces


Is there a version of Fischer-Riesz theorem for Banach space?Conditional expectation of random vectorsCyl(E) = Borel(E) for E non-reflexive Grothendieck Banach spaceSymmetries of probability distributionsIf $ F(x,bullet) in L^infty(G,B) $ for all $ x in G $, then is $ x mapsto F(x,bullet) $ strongly measurable?Measurability of integrals with respect to different measuresConditional Expectation Relative to “Random Time” - Consistency of the Substitution RuleExtending a weak*-converging sequence onto a superspaceA formula for vector valued measurable functionsIs there a version of Fischer-Riesz theorem for Banach space?













2












$begingroup$


$defEhskip.15exmathsfEhskip.10ex$
Let $B$ be a (maybe nonseparable) Banach space equipped with the Borel $sigma$-algebra $mathscrB(B)$. Let $R:Bto mathbbR$ be a bounded linear operator.



Let $(Omega,mathcalF,P)$ be a probability space. Let $F$ be a $mathscrB(B)|mathcalF$-measurable mapping $Omegato B$. Suppose that $E |F|<infty$.



Question: is it true without any additional assumptions that $E F$ is well-defined, belongs to $B$ and
$$
E RF= R E F?
$$



Remark: usually (e.g. in the Ledoux-Talagrand book) the separability of the space B is additionally imposed. I wonder whether the statement is true without this assumption. For example, what happens if $B$ is just a space of bounded measurable functions (in that case one can just define $[E F](x):=E[F(x)]$)?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$


















    2












    $begingroup$


    $defEhskip.15exmathsfEhskip.10ex$
    Let $B$ be a (maybe nonseparable) Banach space equipped with the Borel $sigma$-algebra $mathscrB(B)$. Let $R:Bto mathbbR$ be a bounded linear operator.



    Let $(Omega,mathcalF,P)$ be a probability space. Let $F$ be a $mathscrB(B)|mathcalF$-measurable mapping $Omegato B$. Suppose that $E |F|<infty$.



    Question: is it true without any additional assumptions that $E F$ is well-defined, belongs to $B$ and
    $$
    E RF= R E F?
    $$



    Remark: usually (e.g. in the Ledoux-Talagrand book) the separability of the space B is additionally imposed. I wonder whether the statement is true without this assumption. For example, what happens if $B$ is just a space of bounded measurable functions (in that case one can just define $[E F](x):=E[F(x)]$)?










    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$
















      2












      2








      2


      1



      $begingroup$


      $defEhskip.15exmathsfEhskip.10ex$
      Let $B$ be a (maybe nonseparable) Banach space equipped with the Borel $sigma$-algebra $mathscrB(B)$. Let $R:Bto mathbbR$ be a bounded linear operator.



      Let $(Omega,mathcalF,P)$ be a probability space. Let $F$ be a $mathscrB(B)|mathcalF$-measurable mapping $Omegato B$. Suppose that $E |F|<infty$.



      Question: is it true without any additional assumptions that $E F$ is well-defined, belongs to $B$ and
      $$
      E RF= R E F?
      $$



      Remark: usually (e.g. in the Ledoux-Talagrand book) the separability of the space B is additionally imposed. I wonder whether the statement is true without this assumption. For example, what happens if $B$ is just a space of bounded measurable functions (in that case one can just define $[E F](x):=E[F(x)]$)?










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      $defEhskip.15exmathsfEhskip.10ex$
      Let $B$ be a (maybe nonseparable) Banach space equipped with the Borel $sigma$-algebra $mathscrB(B)$. Let $R:Bto mathbbR$ be a bounded linear operator.



      Let $(Omega,mathcalF,P)$ be a probability space. Let $F$ be a $mathscrB(B)|mathcalF$-measurable mapping $Omegato B$. Suppose that $E |F|<infty$.



      Question: is it true without any additional assumptions that $E F$ is well-defined, belongs to $B$ and
      $$
      E RF= R E F?
      $$



      Remark: usually (e.g. in the Ledoux-Talagrand book) the separability of the space B is additionally imposed. I wonder whether the statement is true without this assumption. For example, what happens if $B$ is just a space of bounded measurable functions (in that case one can just define $[E F](x):=E[F(x)]$)?







      fa.functional-analysis pr.probability banach-spaces






      share|cite|improve this question















      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question








      edited Aug 12 at 18:25







      Oleg

















      asked Aug 12 at 18:10









      OlegOleg

      2812 silver badges12 bronze badges




      2812 silver badges12 bronze badges























          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          6













          $begingroup$

          $newcommandEoperatornamemathsfE$
          You do not need the separability of $B$ to define $E F$ for a random vector $FcolonOmegato B$; however, you need to assume that $F$ is strongly measurable, in the sense that there is a sequence of finitely-valued random vectors $F_n$ in $B$ such that $|F_n(omega)-F(omega)|to0$ for almost all $omegainOmega$.



          By Bochner's theorem, if $F$ is strongly measurable, then $E|F|<infty$ iff $F$ is Bochner-integrable, in the sense that for some sequence of finitely-valued random vectors $F_n$ in $B$ we have $|F_n(omega)-F(omega)|to0$ for almost all $omega$ and $E|F_n-F|to0$; then $E F:=lim_nE F_n$, with naturally defined $E F_n$.



          It is then known and easy to check that $E RF=RE F$ for any strongly measurable random vector $F$ with $E|F|<infty$ and any bounded linear operator $Rcolon Btomathbb R$; that is, the Bochner integrability implies the Pettis integrability.



          See e.g. Yosida, Sections V.4 and V.5 for further details.




          Concerning your remark that usually the Banach space is assumed to be separable: this is done to ensure the measurability in a number of instances, including the measurability of the sum of random vectors.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$














          • $begingroup$
            Iosif, thanks a lot for a detailed answer. Do you know if the same would be true for conditional expectations: if $F$ is strongly measurable with $E|F|<infty$, $mathcalG$ is a sub-$sigma$-algebra, then $E(F|mathcalG)$ is well-defined and strongly measurable?
            $endgroup$
            – Oleg
            Aug 12 at 21:00










          • $begingroup$
            Also I wonder about the case when $B$ is the space of bounded functions on, say, $[0,1]$. If $F$ is not strongly measurable (just measurable), can it happen that the function $xto EF(x)$ is not measurable?
            $endgroup$
            – Oleg
            Aug 12 at 21:02










          • $begingroup$
            Also I am a bit puzzled about your last comment: if $F$, $G$ are measurable, isn't it always true that $F+G$ is measurable? Is there a counterexample?
            $endgroup$
            – Oleg
            Aug 12 at 21:48










          • $begingroup$
            $F$, $G$ measruable need not imply $F+G$ measurable in the nonseparable case. See mathoverflow.net/a/313792/454
            $endgroup$
            – Gerald Edgar
            Aug 12 at 21:51







          • 1




            $begingroup$
            @Oleg : I have now given an (affirmative) answer mathoverflow.net/questions/338270/… to your additional question concerning the conditional expectation.
            $endgroup$
            – Iosif Pinelis
            Aug 13 at 15:35


















          2













          $begingroup$

          A counterexample for random variable with nonseparable range.



          Let $omega_1$ be the smallest uncountable ordinal. Let $Omega = [0,omega_1)$, the set of countable ordinals, with the order topology. Then the Banach space $B = C[0,omega_1)$ will be used. Note: every real-avalued continuous function on $[0,omega_1)$ is bounded. Moreover,
          $$
          lim_alpha to omega_1 f(alpha)
          $$

          exists for every $f in B$ and
          $phi : B to mathbb R$ defined by
          $$
          phi(f) = lim_alpha to omega_1 f(alpha)
          $$

          is a bounded linear functional.
          [The Stone-Cech compactification of $Omega$ is the one-point compactification of $Omega$.]



          Our measure space is $(Omega,mathcal F, mathbb P)$, where $mathcal F$ is the countable-cocountable sigma-algebra, and $mathbb P$ is $0$ on countable sets and $1$ on cocountable sets. Note: if $f in C[0,omega_1)$, then the integral is
          $$
          int f(alpha);mathbb P(dalpha) = lim_alpha to omega_1 f(alpha) = phi(f) .
          $$



          Define $F : Omega to B$ by $F(alpha) = mathbf1_(alpha,omega_1) $, the indicator function of the interval $(alpha,omega_1)$, which is a clopen set.



          We will show that that there is no $mathbb E[F] in B$ with the property $mathbb E[Rcirc F] = Rbig(mathbb E[F]big)$ for all bounded linear functionals $R : B to mathbb R$. Suppose it does exist.



          Fix $xi in [0,omega_1)$. Then $f mapsto f(xi)$ is a bounded linear functional, and
          $$
          F(alpha)(xi) = begincases
          1,quad alpha < xi
          \
          0,quad alpha ge xi
          endcases
          $$

          and thus
          $$
          0 = lim_alpha to omega_1 F(alpha)(xi) =
          int F(alpha)(xi);mathbb P(dalpha) =
          left(mathbb E[F]right)(xi)
          $$

          This holds for all $xi$ so $mathbb E[F] = mathbf 0$, the zero element of $B$.



          On the other hand $phi$ defined above is a bounded linear functional, and
          $$
          phi(F(alpha)) = lim_xi to omega_1F(alpha)(xi) = 1
          $$

          for all $alpha$.



          So
          $$
          mathbb E[phicirc F] =intphi(F(alpha));mathbb P(dalpha)
          =int 1;mathbb P(dalpha) = 1 .
          $$

          This is not equal to $phibig(mathbb E[F]big) = phi(mathbf 0) = 0$.



          .....



          Now I'm wondering if $F$ is Borel.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$














          • $begingroup$
            Gerald, thanks for this interesting counter-example. Do you think something similar can happen if $B$ is a space of bounded Borel measurable functions?
            $endgroup$
            – Oleg
            Aug 13 at 9:29













          Your Answer








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          2 Answers
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          2 Answers
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          6













          $begingroup$

          $newcommandEoperatornamemathsfE$
          You do not need the separability of $B$ to define $E F$ for a random vector $FcolonOmegato B$; however, you need to assume that $F$ is strongly measurable, in the sense that there is a sequence of finitely-valued random vectors $F_n$ in $B$ such that $|F_n(omega)-F(omega)|to0$ for almost all $omegainOmega$.



          By Bochner's theorem, if $F$ is strongly measurable, then $E|F|<infty$ iff $F$ is Bochner-integrable, in the sense that for some sequence of finitely-valued random vectors $F_n$ in $B$ we have $|F_n(omega)-F(omega)|to0$ for almost all $omega$ and $E|F_n-F|to0$; then $E F:=lim_nE F_n$, with naturally defined $E F_n$.



          It is then known and easy to check that $E RF=RE F$ for any strongly measurable random vector $F$ with $E|F|<infty$ and any bounded linear operator $Rcolon Btomathbb R$; that is, the Bochner integrability implies the Pettis integrability.



          See e.g. Yosida, Sections V.4 and V.5 for further details.




          Concerning your remark that usually the Banach space is assumed to be separable: this is done to ensure the measurability in a number of instances, including the measurability of the sum of random vectors.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$














          • $begingroup$
            Iosif, thanks a lot for a detailed answer. Do you know if the same would be true for conditional expectations: if $F$ is strongly measurable with $E|F|<infty$, $mathcalG$ is a sub-$sigma$-algebra, then $E(F|mathcalG)$ is well-defined and strongly measurable?
            $endgroup$
            – Oleg
            Aug 12 at 21:00










          • $begingroup$
            Also I wonder about the case when $B$ is the space of bounded functions on, say, $[0,1]$. If $F$ is not strongly measurable (just measurable), can it happen that the function $xto EF(x)$ is not measurable?
            $endgroup$
            – Oleg
            Aug 12 at 21:02










          • $begingroup$
            Also I am a bit puzzled about your last comment: if $F$, $G$ are measurable, isn't it always true that $F+G$ is measurable? Is there a counterexample?
            $endgroup$
            – Oleg
            Aug 12 at 21:48










          • $begingroup$
            $F$, $G$ measruable need not imply $F+G$ measurable in the nonseparable case. See mathoverflow.net/a/313792/454
            $endgroup$
            – Gerald Edgar
            Aug 12 at 21:51







          • 1




            $begingroup$
            @Oleg : I have now given an (affirmative) answer mathoverflow.net/questions/338270/… to your additional question concerning the conditional expectation.
            $endgroup$
            – Iosif Pinelis
            Aug 13 at 15:35















          6













          $begingroup$

          $newcommandEoperatornamemathsfE$
          You do not need the separability of $B$ to define $E F$ for a random vector $FcolonOmegato B$; however, you need to assume that $F$ is strongly measurable, in the sense that there is a sequence of finitely-valued random vectors $F_n$ in $B$ such that $|F_n(omega)-F(omega)|to0$ for almost all $omegainOmega$.



          By Bochner's theorem, if $F$ is strongly measurable, then $E|F|<infty$ iff $F$ is Bochner-integrable, in the sense that for some sequence of finitely-valued random vectors $F_n$ in $B$ we have $|F_n(omega)-F(omega)|to0$ for almost all $omega$ and $E|F_n-F|to0$; then $E F:=lim_nE F_n$, with naturally defined $E F_n$.



          It is then known and easy to check that $E RF=RE F$ for any strongly measurable random vector $F$ with $E|F|<infty$ and any bounded linear operator $Rcolon Btomathbb R$; that is, the Bochner integrability implies the Pettis integrability.



          See e.g. Yosida, Sections V.4 and V.5 for further details.




          Concerning your remark that usually the Banach space is assumed to be separable: this is done to ensure the measurability in a number of instances, including the measurability of the sum of random vectors.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$














          • $begingroup$
            Iosif, thanks a lot for a detailed answer. Do you know if the same would be true for conditional expectations: if $F$ is strongly measurable with $E|F|<infty$, $mathcalG$ is a sub-$sigma$-algebra, then $E(F|mathcalG)$ is well-defined and strongly measurable?
            $endgroup$
            – Oleg
            Aug 12 at 21:00










          • $begingroup$
            Also I wonder about the case when $B$ is the space of bounded functions on, say, $[0,1]$. If $F$ is not strongly measurable (just measurable), can it happen that the function $xto EF(x)$ is not measurable?
            $endgroup$
            – Oleg
            Aug 12 at 21:02










          • $begingroup$
            Also I am a bit puzzled about your last comment: if $F$, $G$ are measurable, isn't it always true that $F+G$ is measurable? Is there a counterexample?
            $endgroup$
            – Oleg
            Aug 12 at 21:48










          • $begingroup$
            $F$, $G$ measruable need not imply $F+G$ measurable in the nonseparable case. See mathoverflow.net/a/313792/454
            $endgroup$
            – Gerald Edgar
            Aug 12 at 21:51







          • 1




            $begingroup$
            @Oleg : I have now given an (affirmative) answer mathoverflow.net/questions/338270/… to your additional question concerning the conditional expectation.
            $endgroup$
            – Iosif Pinelis
            Aug 13 at 15:35













          6














          6










          6







          $begingroup$

          $newcommandEoperatornamemathsfE$
          You do not need the separability of $B$ to define $E F$ for a random vector $FcolonOmegato B$; however, you need to assume that $F$ is strongly measurable, in the sense that there is a sequence of finitely-valued random vectors $F_n$ in $B$ such that $|F_n(omega)-F(omega)|to0$ for almost all $omegainOmega$.



          By Bochner's theorem, if $F$ is strongly measurable, then $E|F|<infty$ iff $F$ is Bochner-integrable, in the sense that for some sequence of finitely-valued random vectors $F_n$ in $B$ we have $|F_n(omega)-F(omega)|to0$ for almost all $omega$ and $E|F_n-F|to0$; then $E F:=lim_nE F_n$, with naturally defined $E F_n$.



          It is then known and easy to check that $E RF=RE F$ for any strongly measurable random vector $F$ with $E|F|<infty$ and any bounded linear operator $Rcolon Btomathbb R$; that is, the Bochner integrability implies the Pettis integrability.



          See e.g. Yosida, Sections V.4 and V.5 for further details.




          Concerning your remark that usually the Banach space is assumed to be separable: this is done to ensure the measurability in a number of instances, including the measurability of the sum of random vectors.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          $newcommandEoperatornamemathsfE$
          You do not need the separability of $B$ to define $E F$ for a random vector $FcolonOmegato B$; however, you need to assume that $F$ is strongly measurable, in the sense that there is a sequence of finitely-valued random vectors $F_n$ in $B$ such that $|F_n(omega)-F(omega)|to0$ for almost all $omegainOmega$.



          By Bochner's theorem, if $F$ is strongly measurable, then $E|F|<infty$ iff $F$ is Bochner-integrable, in the sense that for some sequence of finitely-valued random vectors $F_n$ in $B$ we have $|F_n(omega)-F(omega)|to0$ for almost all $omega$ and $E|F_n-F|to0$; then $E F:=lim_nE F_n$, with naturally defined $E F_n$.



          It is then known and easy to check that $E RF=RE F$ for any strongly measurable random vector $F$ with $E|F|<infty$ and any bounded linear operator $Rcolon Btomathbb R$; that is, the Bochner integrability implies the Pettis integrability.



          See e.g. Yosida, Sections V.4 and V.5 for further details.




          Concerning your remark that usually the Banach space is assumed to be separable: this is done to ensure the measurability in a number of instances, including the measurability of the sum of random vectors.







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited Aug 12 at 19:30

























          answered Aug 12 at 19:09









          Iosif PinelisIosif Pinelis

          24.4k3 gold badges27 silver badges65 bronze badges




          24.4k3 gold badges27 silver badges65 bronze badges














          • $begingroup$
            Iosif, thanks a lot for a detailed answer. Do you know if the same would be true for conditional expectations: if $F$ is strongly measurable with $E|F|<infty$, $mathcalG$ is a sub-$sigma$-algebra, then $E(F|mathcalG)$ is well-defined and strongly measurable?
            $endgroup$
            – Oleg
            Aug 12 at 21:00










          • $begingroup$
            Also I wonder about the case when $B$ is the space of bounded functions on, say, $[0,1]$. If $F$ is not strongly measurable (just measurable), can it happen that the function $xto EF(x)$ is not measurable?
            $endgroup$
            – Oleg
            Aug 12 at 21:02










          • $begingroup$
            Also I am a bit puzzled about your last comment: if $F$, $G$ are measurable, isn't it always true that $F+G$ is measurable? Is there a counterexample?
            $endgroup$
            – Oleg
            Aug 12 at 21:48










          • $begingroup$
            $F$, $G$ measruable need not imply $F+G$ measurable in the nonseparable case. See mathoverflow.net/a/313792/454
            $endgroup$
            – Gerald Edgar
            Aug 12 at 21:51







          • 1




            $begingroup$
            @Oleg : I have now given an (affirmative) answer mathoverflow.net/questions/338270/… to your additional question concerning the conditional expectation.
            $endgroup$
            – Iosif Pinelis
            Aug 13 at 15:35
















          • $begingroup$
            Iosif, thanks a lot for a detailed answer. Do you know if the same would be true for conditional expectations: if $F$ is strongly measurable with $E|F|<infty$, $mathcalG$ is a sub-$sigma$-algebra, then $E(F|mathcalG)$ is well-defined and strongly measurable?
            $endgroup$
            – Oleg
            Aug 12 at 21:00










          • $begingroup$
            Also I wonder about the case when $B$ is the space of bounded functions on, say, $[0,1]$. If $F$ is not strongly measurable (just measurable), can it happen that the function $xto EF(x)$ is not measurable?
            $endgroup$
            – Oleg
            Aug 12 at 21:02










          • $begingroup$
            Also I am a bit puzzled about your last comment: if $F$, $G$ are measurable, isn't it always true that $F+G$ is measurable? Is there a counterexample?
            $endgroup$
            – Oleg
            Aug 12 at 21:48










          • $begingroup$
            $F$, $G$ measruable need not imply $F+G$ measurable in the nonseparable case. See mathoverflow.net/a/313792/454
            $endgroup$
            – Gerald Edgar
            Aug 12 at 21:51







          • 1




            $begingroup$
            @Oleg : I have now given an (affirmative) answer mathoverflow.net/questions/338270/… to your additional question concerning the conditional expectation.
            $endgroup$
            – Iosif Pinelis
            Aug 13 at 15:35















          $begingroup$
          Iosif, thanks a lot for a detailed answer. Do you know if the same would be true for conditional expectations: if $F$ is strongly measurable with $E|F|<infty$, $mathcalG$ is a sub-$sigma$-algebra, then $E(F|mathcalG)$ is well-defined and strongly measurable?
          $endgroup$
          – Oleg
          Aug 12 at 21:00




          $begingroup$
          Iosif, thanks a lot for a detailed answer. Do you know if the same would be true for conditional expectations: if $F$ is strongly measurable with $E|F|<infty$, $mathcalG$ is a sub-$sigma$-algebra, then $E(F|mathcalG)$ is well-defined and strongly measurable?
          $endgroup$
          – Oleg
          Aug 12 at 21:00












          $begingroup$
          Also I wonder about the case when $B$ is the space of bounded functions on, say, $[0,1]$. If $F$ is not strongly measurable (just measurable), can it happen that the function $xto EF(x)$ is not measurable?
          $endgroup$
          – Oleg
          Aug 12 at 21:02




          $begingroup$
          Also I wonder about the case when $B$ is the space of bounded functions on, say, $[0,1]$. If $F$ is not strongly measurable (just measurable), can it happen that the function $xto EF(x)$ is not measurable?
          $endgroup$
          – Oleg
          Aug 12 at 21:02












          $begingroup$
          Also I am a bit puzzled about your last comment: if $F$, $G$ are measurable, isn't it always true that $F+G$ is measurable? Is there a counterexample?
          $endgroup$
          – Oleg
          Aug 12 at 21:48




          $begingroup$
          Also I am a bit puzzled about your last comment: if $F$, $G$ are measurable, isn't it always true that $F+G$ is measurable? Is there a counterexample?
          $endgroup$
          – Oleg
          Aug 12 at 21:48












          $begingroup$
          $F$, $G$ measruable need not imply $F+G$ measurable in the nonseparable case. See mathoverflow.net/a/313792/454
          $endgroup$
          – Gerald Edgar
          Aug 12 at 21:51





          $begingroup$
          $F$, $G$ measruable need not imply $F+G$ measurable in the nonseparable case. See mathoverflow.net/a/313792/454
          $endgroup$
          – Gerald Edgar
          Aug 12 at 21:51





          1




          1




          $begingroup$
          @Oleg : I have now given an (affirmative) answer mathoverflow.net/questions/338270/… to your additional question concerning the conditional expectation.
          $endgroup$
          – Iosif Pinelis
          Aug 13 at 15:35




          $begingroup$
          @Oleg : I have now given an (affirmative) answer mathoverflow.net/questions/338270/… to your additional question concerning the conditional expectation.
          $endgroup$
          – Iosif Pinelis
          Aug 13 at 15:35











          2













          $begingroup$

          A counterexample for random variable with nonseparable range.



          Let $omega_1$ be the smallest uncountable ordinal. Let $Omega = [0,omega_1)$, the set of countable ordinals, with the order topology. Then the Banach space $B = C[0,omega_1)$ will be used. Note: every real-avalued continuous function on $[0,omega_1)$ is bounded. Moreover,
          $$
          lim_alpha to omega_1 f(alpha)
          $$

          exists for every $f in B$ and
          $phi : B to mathbb R$ defined by
          $$
          phi(f) = lim_alpha to omega_1 f(alpha)
          $$

          is a bounded linear functional.
          [The Stone-Cech compactification of $Omega$ is the one-point compactification of $Omega$.]



          Our measure space is $(Omega,mathcal F, mathbb P)$, where $mathcal F$ is the countable-cocountable sigma-algebra, and $mathbb P$ is $0$ on countable sets and $1$ on cocountable sets. Note: if $f in C[0,omega_1)$, then the integral is
          $$
          int f(alpha);mathbb P(dalpha) = lim_alpha to omega_1 f(alpha) = phi(f) .
          $$



          Define $F : Omega to B$ by $F(alpha) = mathbf1_(alpha,omega_1) $, the indicator function of the interval $(alpha,omega_1)$, which is a clopen set.



          We will show that that there is no $mathbb E[F] in B$ with the property $mathbb E[Rcirc F] = Rbig(mathbb E[F]big)$ for all bounded linear functionals $R : B to mathbb R$. Suppose it does exist.



          Fix $xi in [0,omega_1)$. Then $f mapsto f(xi)$ is a bounded linear functional, and
          $$
          F(alpha)(xi) = begincases
          1,quad alpha < xi
          \
          0,quad alpha ge xi
          endcases
          $$

          and thus
          $$
          0 = lim_alpha to omega_1 F(alpha)(xi) =
          int F(alpha)(xi);mathbb P(dalpha) =
          left(mathbb E[F]right)(xi)
          $$

          This holds for all $xi$ so $mathbb E[F] = mathbf 0$, the zero element of $B$.



          On the other hand $phi$ defined above is a bounded linear functional, and
          $$
          phi(F(alpha)) = lim_xi to omega_1F(alpha)(xi) = 1
          $$

          for all $alpha$.



          So
          $$
          mathbb E[phicirc F] =intphi(F(alpha));mathbb P(dalpha)
          =int 1;mathbb P(dalpha) = 1 .
          $$

          This is not equal to $phibig(mathbb E[F]big) = phi(mathbf 0) = 0$.



          .....



          Now I'm wondering if $F$ is Borel.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$














          • $begingroup$
            Gerald, thanks for this interesting counter-example. Do you think something similar can happen if $B$ is a space of bounded Borel measurable functions?
            $endgroup$
            – Oleg
            Aug 13 at 9:29















          2













          $begingroup$

          A counterexample for random variable with nonseparable range.



          Let $omega_1$ be the smallest uncountable ordinal. Let $Omega = [0,omega_1)$, the set of countable ordinals, with the order topology. Then the Banach space $B = C[0,omega_1)$ will be used. Note: every real-avalued continuous function on $[0,omega_1)$ is bounded. Moreover,
          $$
          lim_alpha to omega_1 f(alpha)
          $$

          exists for every $f in B$ and
          $phi : B to mathbb R$ defined by
          $$
          phi(f) = lim_alpha to omega_1 f(alpha)
          $$

          is a bounded linear functional.
          [The Stone-Cech compactification of $Omega$ is the one-point compactification of $Omega$.]



          Our measure space is $(Omega,mathcal F, mathbb P)$, where $mathcal F$ is the countable-cocountable sigma-algebra, and $mathbb P$ is $0$ on countable sets and $1$ on cocountable sets. Note: if $f in C[0,omega_1)$, then the integral is
          $$
          int f(alpha);mathbb P(dalpha) = lim_alpha to omega_1 f(alpha) = phi(f) .
          $$



          Define $F : Omega to B$ by $F(alpha) = mathbf1_(alpha,omega_1) $, the indicator function of the interval $(alpha,omega_1)$, which is a clopen set.



          We will show that that there is no $mathbb E[F] in B$ with the property $mathbb E[Rcirc F] = Rbig(mathbb E[F]big)$ for all bounded linear functionals $R : B to mathbb R$. Suppose it does exist.



          Fix $xi in [0,omega_1)$. Then $f mapsto f(xi)$ is a bounded linear functional, and
          $$
          F(alpha)(xi) = begincases
          1,quad alpha < xi
          \
          0,quad alpha ge xi
          endcases
          $$

          and thus
          $$
          0 = lim_alpha to omega_1 F(alpha)(xi) =
          int F(alpha)(xi);mathbb P(dalpha) =
          left(mathbb E[F]right)(xi)
          $$

          This holds for all $xi$ so $mathbb E[F] = mathbf 0$, the zero element of $B$.



          On the other hand $phi$ defined above is a bounded linear functional, and
          $$
          phi(F(alpha)) = lim_xi to omega_1F(alpha)(xi) = 1
          $$

          for all $alpha$.



          So
          $$
          mathbb E[phicirc F] =intphi(F(alpha));mathbb P(dalpha)
          =int 1;mathbb P(dalpha) = 1 .
          $$

          This is not equal to $phibig(mathbb E[F]big) = phi(mathbf 0) = 0$.



          .....



          Now I'm wondering if $F$ is Borel.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$














          • $begingroup$
            Gerald, thanks for this interesting counter-example. Do you think something similar can happen if $B$ is a space of bounded Borel measurable functions?
            $endgroup$
            – Oleg
            Aug 13 at 9:29













          2














          2










          2







          $begingroup$

          A counterexample for random variable with nonseparable range.



          Let $omega_1$ be the smallest uncountable ordinal. Let $Omega = [0,omega_1)$, the set of countable ordinals, with the order topology. Then the Banach space $B = C[0,omega_1)$ will be used. Note: every real-avalued continuous function on $[0,omega_1)$ is bounded. Moreover,
          $$
          lim_alpha to omega_1 f(alpha)
          $$

          exists for every $f in B$ and
          $phi : B to mathbb R$ defined by
          $$
          phi(f) = lim_alpha to omega_1 f(alpha)
          $$

          is a bounded linear functional.
          [The Stone-Cech compactification of $Omega$ is the one-point compactification of $Omega$.]



          Our measure space is $(Omega,mathcal F, mathbb P)$, where $mathcal F$ is the countable-cocountable sigma-algebra, and $mathbb P$ is $0$ on countable sets and $1$ on cocountable sets. Note: if $f in C[0,omega_1)$, then the integral is
          $$
          int f(alpha);mathbb P(dalpha) = lim_alpha to omega_1 f(alpha) = phi(f) .
          $$



          Define $F : Omega to B$ by $F(alpha) = mathbf1_(alpha,omega_1) $, the indicator function of the interval $(alpha,omega_1)$, which is a clopen set.



          We will show that that there is no $mathbb E[F] in B$ with the property $mathbb E[Rcirc F] = Rbig(mathbb E[F]big)$ for all bounded linear functionals $R : B to mathbb R$. Suppose it does exist.



          Fix $xi in [0,omega_1)$. Then $f mapsto f(xi)$ is a bounded linear functional, and
          $$
          F(alpha)(xi) = begincases
          1,quad alpha < xi
          \
          0,quad alpha ge xi
          endcases
          $$

          and thus
          $$
          0 = lim_alpha to omega_1 F(alpha)(xi) =
          int F(alpha)(xi);mathbb P(dalpha) =
          left(mathbb E[F]right)(xi)
          $$

          This holds for all $xi$ so $mathbb E[F] = mathbf 0$, the zero element of $B$.



          On the other hand $phi$ defined above is a bounded linear functional, and
          $$
          phi(F(alpha)) = lim_xi to omega_1F(alpha)(xi) = 1
          $$

          for all $alpha$.



          So
          $$
          mathbb E[phicirc F] =intphi(F(alpha));mathbb P(dalpha)
          =int 1;mathbb P(dalpha) = 1 .
          $$

          This is not equal to $phibig(mathbb E[F]big) = phi(mathbf 0) = 0$.



          .....



          Now I'm wondering if $F$ is Borel.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          A counterexample for random variable with nonseparable range.



          Let $omega_1$ be the smallest uncountable ordinal. Let $Omega = [0,omega_1)$, the set of countable ordinals, with the order topology. Then the Banach space $B = C[0,omega_1)$ will be used. Note: every real-avalued continuous function on $[0,omega_1)$ is bounded. Moreover,
          $$
          lim_alpha to omega_1 f(alpha)
          $$

          exists for every $f in B$ and
          $phi : B to mathbb R$ defined by
          $$
          phi(f) = lim_alpha to omega_1 f(alpha)
          $$

          is a bounded linear functional.
          [The Stone-Cech compactification of $Omega$ is the one-point compactification of $Omega$.]



          Our measure space is $(Omega,mathcal F, mathbb P)$, where $mathcal F$ is the countable-cocountable sigma-algebra, and $mathbb P$ is $0$ on countable sets and $1$ on cocountable sets. Note: if $f in C[0,omega_1)$, then the integral is
          $$
          int f(alpha);mathbb P(dalpha) = lim_alpha to omega_1 f(alpha) = phi(f) .
          $$



          Define $F : Omega to B$ by $F(alpha) = mathbf1_(alpha,omega_1) $, the indicator function of the interval $(alpha,omega_1)$, which is a clopen set.



          We will show that that there is no $mathbb E[F] in B$ with the property $mathbb E[Rcirc F] = Rbig(mathbb E[F]big)$ for all bounded linear functionals $R : B to mathbb R$. Suppose it does exist.



          Fix $xi in [0,omega_1)$. Then $f mapsto f(xi)$ is a bounded linear functional, and
          $$
          F(alpha)(xi) = begincases
          1,quad alpha < xi
          \
          0,quad alpha ge xi
          endcases
          $$

          and thus
          $$
          0 = lim_alpha to omega_1 F(alpha)(xi) =
          int F(alpha)(xi);mathbb P(dalpha) =
          left(mathbb E[F]right)(xi)
          $$

          This holds for all $xi$ so $mathbb E[F] = mathbf 0$, the zero element of $B$.



          On the other hand $phi$ defined above is a bounded linear functional, and
          $$
          phi(F(alpha)) = lim_xi to omega_1F(alpha)(xi) = 1
          $$

          for all $alpha$.



          So
          $$
          mathbb E[phicirc F] =intphi(F(alpha));mathbb P(dalpha)
          =int 1;mathbb P(dalpha) = 1 .
          $$

          This is not equal to $phibig(mathbb E[F]big) = phi(mathbf 0) = 0$.



          .....



          Now I'm wondering if $F$ is Borel.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Aug 12 at 21:59









          Gerald EdgarGerald Edgar

          28.7k3 gold badges78 silver badges163 bronze badges




          28.7k3 gold badges78 silver badges163 bronze badges














          • $begingroup$
            Gerald, thanks for this interesting counter-example. Do you think something similar can happen if $B$ is a space of bounded Borel measurable functions?
            $endgroup$
            – Oleg
            Aug 13 at 9:29
















          • $begingroup$
            Gerald, thanks for this interesting counter-example. Do you think something similar can happen if $B$ is a space of bounded Borel measurable functions?
            $endgroup$
            – Oleg
            Aug 13 at 9:29















          $begingroup$
          Gerald, thanks for this interesting counter-example. Do you think something similar can happen if $B$ is a space of bounded Borel measurable functions?
          $endgroup$
          – Oleg
          Aug 13 at 9:29




          $begingroup$
          Gerald, thanks for this interesting counter-example. Do you think something similar can happen if $B$ is a space of bounded Borel measurable functions?
          $endgroup$
          – Oleg
          Aug 13 at 9:29

















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