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When does Tiana, Ship's Caretaker check card type?
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At what point does Tiana, Ship's Caretaker's last ability check if a card that went to the graveyard is an aura or equipment? Is that determination made when the card is on the battlefield and going to the graveyard, or when the card enters the graveyard?
In my specific example: I control a Bludgeon Brawl, Liquimetal Coating, and Tiana. I use liquimetal coating to turn Bludgeon Brawl into an artifact, and it then becomes an equipment because of bludgeon brawl. My opponent Shatters it. Does Tiana's second ability trigger because it was an equipment when it died, or not because it is an enchantment in the graveyard?
magic-the-gathering
edited Aug 12 at 16:09
BJ Myers
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asked Aug 12 at 15:25
AetherfoxAetherfox
3569 bronze badges
add a comment |
At what point does Tiana, Ship's Caretaker's last ability check if a card that went to the graveyard is an aura or equipment? Is that determination made when the card is on the battlefield and going to the graveyard, or when the card enters the graveyard?
In my specific example: I control a Bludgeon Brawl, Liquimetal Coating, and Tiana. I use liquimetal coating to turn Bludgeon Brawl into an artifact, and it then becomes an equipment because of bludgeon brawl. My opponent Shatters it. Does Tiana's second ability trigger because it was an equipment when it died, or not because it is an enchantment in the graveyard?
magic-the-gathering
edited Aug 12 at 16:09
BJ Myers
4,3311 gold badge9 silver badges32 bronze badges
asked Aug 12 at 15:25
AetherfoxAetherfox
3569 bronze badges
You don't control cards in the graveyard, so this tells us it uses the appearance of the card on the battlefield. (It's not because of the wording that we check the object that left the battelfield; it's just an indicator of the rule.) Someone will provide a more complete answer.
– ikegami
Aug 12 at 15:39
add a comment |
At what point does Tiana, Ship's Caretaker's last ability check if a card that went to the graveyard is an aura or equipment? Is that determination made when the card is on the battlefield and going to the graveyard, or when the card enters the graveyard?
In my specific example: I control a Bludgeon Brawl, Liquimetal Coating, and Tiana. I use liquimetal coating to turn Bludgeon Brawl into an artifact, and it then becomes an equipment because of bludgeon brawl. My opponent Shatters it. Does Tiana's second ability trigger because it was an equipment when it died, or not because it is an enchantment in the graveyard?
magic-the-gathering
edited Aug 12 at 16:09
BJ Myers
4,3311 gold badge9 silver badges32 bronze badges
asked Aug 12 at 15:25
AetherfoxAetherfox
3569 bronze badges
At what point does Tiana, Ship's Caretaker's last ability check if a card that went to the graveyard is an aura or equipment? Is that determination made when the card is on the battlefield and going to the graveyard, or when the card enters the graveyard?
In my specific example: I control a Bludgeon Brawl, Liquimetal Coating, and Tiana. I use liquimetal coating to turn Bludgeon Brawl into an artifact, and it then becomes an equipment because of bludgeon brawl. My opponent Shatters it. Does Tiana's second ability trigger because it was an equipment when it died, or not because it is an enchantment in the graveyard?
magic-the-gathering
magic-the-gathering
edited Aug 12 at 16:09
BJ Myers
4,3311 gold badge9 silver badges32 bronze badges
asked Aug 12 at 15:25
AetherfoxAetherfox
3569 bronze badges
edited Aug 12 at 16:09
BJ Myers
4,3311 gold badge9 silver badges32 bronze badges
asked Aug 12 at 15:25
AetherfoxAetherfox
3569 bronze badges
edited Aug 12 at 16:09
BJ Myers
4,3311 gold badge9 silver badges32 bronze badges
edited Aug 12 at 16:09
BJ Myers
4,3311 gold badge9 silver badges32 bronze badges
edited Aug 12 at 16:09
BJ Myers
4,3311 gold badge9 silver badges32 bronze badges
4,3311 gold badge9 silver badges32 bronze badges
asked Aug 12 at 15:25
AetherfoxAetherfox
3569 bronze badges
asked Aug 12 at 15:25
AetherfoxAetherfox
3569 bronze badges
asked Aug 12 at 15:25
AetherfoxAetherfox
3569 bronze badges
3569 bronze badges
You don't control cards in the graveyard, so this tells us it uses the appearance of the card on the battlefield. (It's not because of the wording that we check the object that left the battelfield; it's just an indicator of the rule.) Someone will provide a more complete answer.
– ikegami
Aug 12 at 15:39
add a comment |
You don't control cards in the graveyard, so this tells us it uses the appearance of the card on the battlefield. (It's not because of the wording that we check the object that left the battelfield; it's just an indicator of the rule.) Someone will provide a more complete answer.
– ikegami
Aug 12 at 15:39
You don't control cards in the graveyard, so this tells us it uses the appearance of the card on the battlefield. (It's not because of the wording that we check the object that left the battelfield; it's just an indicator of the rule.) Someone will provide a more complete answer.
– ikegami
Aug 12 at 15:39
You don't control cards in the graveyard, so this tells us it uses the appearance of the card on the battlefield. (It's not because of the wording that we check the object that left the battelfield; it's just an indicator of the rule.) Someone will provide a more complete answer.
– ikegami
Aug 12 at 15:39
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
The ability will still trigger; what matters is what the object was when it was on the battlefield.
603.10. Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched any trigger conditions, and continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. However, some triggered abilities are exceptions to this rule; the game “looks back in time” to determine if those abilities trigger, using the existence of those abilities and the appearance of objects immediately prior to the event. The list of exceptions is as follows:
603.10a Some zone-change triggers look back in time. These are leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a card leaves a graveyard, and abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library.
Tiana’s ability is a leaves the battlefield ability; even though it talks about entering the graveyard:
603.6c Leaves-the-battlefield abilities trigger when a permanent moves from the battlefield to another zone, or when a phased-in permanent leaves the game because its owner leaves the game. These are written as, but aren’t limited to, “When [this object] leaves the battlefield, . . .” or “Whenever [something] is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, . . . .” (See also rule 603.10.) [...]
answered Aug 12 at 15:54
GendoIkariGendoIkari
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6
For completeness, 603.6c defines what's a leaves-the-battlefield ability.
– ikegami
Aug 12 at 19:23
add a comment |
Tiana's ability will check for the card type at the time the ability that creates the delayed trigger is triggered. This means that the card will be returned to your hand even if it's not currently an aura or equipment while in your graveyard.
From Tiana's Gatherer rulings, emphasis mine:
Tiana’s last ability triggers and creates a delayed triggered ability that will let you return the Aura or Equipment during the next end step[...]
And, from CR603.7, which deals with delayed triggers, emphasis mine:
603.7c A delayed triggered ability that refers to a particular object still affects it even if the object changes characteristics[...]
And, to clarify what are characteristics, we refer to rule 109.3, emphasis mine:
An object’s characteristics are name, mana cost, color, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, rules text, [...]
Since the ability triggers when an aura or equipment leaves the battlefield (and is put into a graveyard), it looks back in time to the object that left the battlefield rather than the object in the graveyard.
This is governed by rule 603.10a:
603.10a Some zone-change triggers look back in time. These are leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a card leaves a graveyard, and abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library.
answered Aug 12 at 15:43
J. SalléJ. Sallé
2,7136 silver badges21 bronze badges
@ikegami you're right; I intended to say the trigger that creates the delayed trigger. I'll fix it and add Gendolkari's suggestion.
– J. Sallé
Aug 12 at 15:54
I decided to just make my own answer; both are correct but yours focuses on why the delayed trigger still works; while mine is about why the initial trigger works.
– GendoIkari
Aug 12 at 15:57
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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The ability will still trigger; what matters is what the object was when it was on the battlefield.
603.10. Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched any trigger conditions, and continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. However, some triggered abilities are exceptions to this rule; the game “looks back in time” to determine if those abilities trigger, using the existence of those abilities and the appearance of objects immediately prior to the event. The list of exceptions is as follows:
603.10a Some zone-change triggers look back in time. These are leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a card leaves a graveyard, and abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library.
Tiana’s ability is a leaves the battlefield ability; even though it talks about entering the graveyard:
603.6c Leaves-the-battlefield abilities trigger when a permanent moves from the battlefield to another zone, or when a phased-in permanent leaves the game because its owner leaves the game. These are written as, but aren’t limited to, “When [this object] leaves the battlefield, . . .” or “Whenever [something] is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, . . . .” (See also rule 603.10.) [...]
answered Aug 12 at 15:54
GendoIkariGendoIkari
48.3k3 gold badges104 silver badges199 bronze badges
6
For completeness, 603.6c defines what's a leaves-the-battlefield ability.
– ikegami
Aug 12 at 19:23
add a comment |
The ability will still trigger; what matters is what the object was when it was on the battlefield.
603.10. Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched any trigger conditions, and continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. However, some triggered abilities are exceptions to this rule; the game “looks back in time” to determine if those abilities trigger, using the existence of those abilities and the appearance of objects immediately prior to the event. The list of exceptions is as follows:
603.10a Some zone-change triggers look back in time. These are leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a card leaves a graveyard, and abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library.
Tiana’s ability is a leaves the battlefield ability; even though it talks about entering the graveyard:
603.6c Leaves-the-battlefield abilities trigger when a permanent moves from the battlefield to another zone, or when a phased-in permanent leaves the game because its owner leaves the game. These are written as, but aren’t limited to, “When [this object] leaves the battlefield, . . .” or “Whenever [something] is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, . . . .” (See also rule 603.10.) [...]
answered Aug 12 at 15:54
GendoIkariGendoIkari
48.3k3 gold badges104 silver badges199 bronze badges
6
For completeness, 603.6c defines what's a leaves-the-battlefield ability.
– ikegami
Aug 12 at 19:23
add a comment |
The ability will still trigger; what matters is what the object was when it was on the battlefield.
603.10. Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched any trigger conditions, and continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. However, some triggered abilities are exceptions to this rule; the game “looks back in time” to determine if those abilities trigger, using the existence of those abilities and the appearance of objects immediately prior to the event. The list of exceptions is as follows:
603.10a Some zone-change triggers look back in time. These are leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a card leaves a graveyard, and abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library.
Tiana’s ability is a leaves the battlefield ability; even though it talks about entering the graveyard:
603.6c Leaves-the-battlefield abilities trigger when a permanent moves from the battlefield to another zone, or when a phased-in permanent leaves the game because its owner leaves the game. These are written as, but aren’t limited to, “When [this object] leaves the battlefield, . . .” or “Whenever [something] is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, . . . .” (See also rule 603.10.) [...]
answered Aug 12 at 15:54
GendoIkariGendoIkari
48.3k3 gold badges104 silver badges199 bronze badges
The ability will still trigger; what matters is what the object was when it was on the battlefield.
603.10. Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched any trigger conditions, and continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. However, some triggered abilities are exceptions to this rule; the game “looks back in time” to determine if those abilities trigger, using the existence of those abilities and the appearance of objects immediately prior to the event. The list of exceptions is as follows:
603.10a Some zone-change triggers look back in time. These are leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a card leaves a graveyard, and abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library.
Tiana’s ability is a leaves the battlefield ability; even though it talks about entering the graveyard:
603.6c Leaves-the-battlefield abilities trigger when a permanent moves from the battlefield to another zone, or when a phased-in permanent leaves the game because its owner leaves the game. These are written as, but aren’t limited to, “When [this object] leaves the battlefield, . . .” or “Whenever [something] is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, . . . .” (See also rule 603.10.) [...]
answered Aug 12 at 15:54
GendoIkariGendoIkari
48.3k3 gold badges104 silver badges199 bronze badges
edited Aug 12 at 19:26
answered Aug 12 at 15:54
GendoIkariGendoIkari
48.3k3 gold badges104 silver badges199 bronze badges
answered Aug 12 at 15:54
GendoIkariGendoIkari
48.3k3 gold badges104 silver badges199 bronze badges
answered Aug 12 at 15:54
GendoIkariGendoIkari
48.3k3 gold badges104 silver badges199 bronze badges
48.3k3 gold badges104 silver badges199 bronze badges
6
For completeness, 603.6c defines what's a leaves-the-battlefield ability.
– ikegami
Aug 12 at 19:23
add a comment |
6
For completeness, 603.6c defines what's a leaves-the-battlefield ability.
– ikegami
Aug 12 at 19:23
6
6
For completeness, 603.6c defines what's a leaves-the-battlefield ability.
– ikegami
Aug 12 at 19:23
For completeness, 603.6c defines what's a leaves-the-battlefield ability.
– ikegami
Aug 12 at 19:23
add a comment |
Tiana's ability will check for the card type at the time the ability that creates the delayed trigger is triggered. This means that the card will be returned to your hand even if it's not currently an aura or equipment while in your graveyard.
From Tiana's Gatherer rulings, emphasis mine:
Tiana’s last ability triggers and creates a delayed triggered ability that will let you return the Aura or Equipment during the next end step[...]
And, from CR603.7, which deals with delayed triggers, emphasis mine:
603.7c A delayed triggered ability that refers to a particular object still affects it even if the object changes characteristics[...]
And, to clarify what are characteristics, we refer to rule 109.3, emphasis mine:
An object’s characteristics are name, mana cost, color, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, rules text, [...]
Since the ability triggers when an aura or equipment leaves the battlefield (and is put into a graveyard), it looks back in time to the object that left the battlefield rather than the object in the graveyard.
This is governed by rule 603.10a:
603.10a Some zone-change triggers look back in time. These are leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a card leaves a graveyard, and abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library.
answered Aug 12 at 15:43
J. SalléJ. Sallé
2,7136 silver badges21 bronze badges
@ikegami you're right; I intended to say the trigger that creates the delayed trigger. I'll fix it and add Gendolkari's suggestion.
– J. Sallé
Aug 12 at 15:54
I decided to just make my own answer; both are correct but yours focuses on why the delayed trigger still works; while mine is about why the initial trigger works.
– GendoIkari
Aug 12 at 15:57
add a comment |
Tiana's ability will check for the card type at the time the ability that creates the delayed trigger is triggered. This means that the card will be returned to your hand even if it's not currently an aura or equipment while in your graveyard.
From Tiana's Gatherer rulings, emphasis mine:
Tiana’s last ability triggers and creates a delayed triggered ability that will let you return the Aura or Equipment during the next end step[...]
And, from CR603.7, which deals with delayed triggers, emphasis mine:
603.7c A delayed triggered ability that refers to a particular object still affects it even if the object changes characteristics[...]
And, to clarify what are characteristics, we refer to rule 109.3, emphasis mine:
An object’s characteristics are name, mana cost, color, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, rules text, [...]
Since the ability triggers when an aura or equipment leaves the battlefield (and is put into a graveyard), it looks back in time to the object that left the battlefield rather than the object in the graveyard.
This is governed by rule 603.10a:
603.10a Some zone-change triggers look back in time. These are leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a card leaves a graveyard, and abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library.
answered Aug 12 at 15:43
J. SalléJ. Sallé
2,7136 silver badges21 bronze badges
@ikegami you're right; I intended to say the trigger that creates the delayed trigger. I'll fix it and add Gendolkari's suggestion.
– J. Sallé
Aug 12 at 15:54
I decided to just make my own answer; both are correct but yours focuses on why the delayed trigger still works; while mine is about why the initial trigger works.
– GendoIkari
Aug 12 at 15:57
add a comment |
Tiana's ability will check for the card type at the time the ability that creates the delayed trigger is triggered. This means that the card will be returned to your hand even if it's not currently an aura or equipment while in your graveyard.
From Tiana's Gatherer rulings, emphasis mine:
Tiana’s last ability triggers and creates a delayed triggered ability that will let you return the Aura or Equipment during the next end step[...]
And, from CR603.7, which deals with delayed triggers, emphasis mine:
603.7c A delayed triggered ability that refers to a particular object still affects it even if the object changes characteristics[...]
And, to clarify what are characteristics, we refer to rule 109.3, emphasis mine:
An object’s characteristics are name, mana cost, color, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, rules text, [...]
Since the ability triggers when an aura or equipment leaves the battlefield (and is put into a graveyard), it looks back in time to the object that left the battlefield rather than the object in the graveyard.
This is governed by rule 603.10a:
603.10a Some zone-change triggers look back in time. These are leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a card leaves a graveyard, and abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library.
answered Aug 12 at 15:43
J. SalléJ. Sallé
2,7136 silver badges21 bronze badges
Tiana's ability will check for the card type at the time the ability that creates the delayed trigger is triggered. This means that the card will be returned to your hand even if it's not currently an aura or equipment while in your graveyard.
From Tiana's Gatherer rulings, emphasis mine:
Tiana’s last ability triggers and creates a delayed triggered ability that will let you return the Aura or Equipment during the next end step[...]
And, from CR603.7, which deals with delayed triggers, emphasis mine:
603.7c A delayed triggered ability that refers to a particular object still affects it even if the object changes characteristics[...]
And, to clarify what are characteristics, we refer to rule 109.3, emphasis mine:
An object’s characteristics are name, mana cost, color, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, rules text, [...]
Since the ability triggers when an aura or equipment leaves the battlefield (and is put into a graveyard), it looks back in time to the object that left the battlefield rather than the object in the graveyard.
This is governed by rule 603.10a:
603.10a Some zone-change triggers look back in time. These are leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a card leaves a graveyard, and abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library.
answered Aug 12 at 15:43
J. SalléJ. Sallé
2,7136 silver badges21 bronze badges
edited Aug 12 at 15:57
answered Aug 12 at 15:43
J. SalléJ. Sallé
2,7136 silver badges21 bronze badges
answered Aug 12 at 15:43
J. SalléJ. Sallé
2,7136 silver badges21 bronze badges
answered Aug 12 at 15:43
J. SalléJ. Sallé
2,7136 silver badges21 bronze badges
2,7136 silver badges21 bronze badges
@ikegami you're right; I intended to say the trigger that creates the delayed trigger. I'll fix it and add Gendolkari's suggestion.
– J. Sallé
Aug 12 at 15:54
I decided to just make my own answer; both are correct but yours focuses on why the delayed trigger still works; while mine is about why the initial trigger works.
– GendoIkari
Aug 12 at 15:57
add a comment |
@ikegami you're right; I intended to say the trigger that creates the delayed trigger. I'll fix it and add Gendolkari's suggestion.
– J. Sallé
Aug 12 at 15:54
I decided to just make my own answer; both are correct but yours focuses on why the delayed trigger still works; while mine is about why the initial trigger works.
– GendoIkari
Aug 12 at 15:57
@ikegami you're right; I intended to say the trigger that creates the delayed trigger. I'll fix it and add Gendolkari's suggestion.
– J. Sallé
Aug 12 at 15:54
@ikegami you're right; I intended to say the trigger that creates the delayed trigger. I'll fix it and add Gendolkari's suggestion.
– J. Sallé
Aug 12 at 15:54
I decided to just make my own answer; both are correct but yours focuses on why the delayed trigger still works; while mine is about why the initial trigger works.
– GendoIkari
Aug 12 at 15:57
I decided to just make my own answer; both are correct but yours focuses on why the delayed trigger still works; while mine is about why the initial trigger works.
– GendoIkari
Aug 12 at 15:57
add a comment |
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You don't control cards in the graveyard, so this tells us it uses the appearance of the card on the battlefield. (It's not because of the wording that we check the object that left the battelfield; it's just an indicator of the rule.) Someone will provide a more complete answer.
– ikegami
Aug 12 at 15:39