Coin Game with infinite paradoxFlip a Fair CoinAnother probabilistic coin puzzleLeft coin, Right coin, Last coin- A fair versionCoin Flipping Game with the DevilCoin division puzzleEccentric Millionaire Probability ParadoxWhat is the value of this other coin flipping game?The asymmetric coin gameFind Coin's unfairness with only 4 tossesThe Monster and the Chessboard

Does a large simulator bay have standard public address announcements?

Check if a string is entirely made of the same substring

A Paper Record is What I Hamper

How important is it that $TERM is correct?

Why do real positive eigenvalues result in an unstable system? What about eigenvalues between 0 and 1? or 1?

All ASCII characters with a given bit count

What *exactly* is electrical current, voltage, and resistance?

Co-worker works way more than he should

A ​Note ​on ​N!

My bank got bought out, am I now going to have to start filing tax returns in a different state?

How much of a wave function must reside inside event horizon for it to be consumed by the black hole?

Double-nominative constructions and “von”

As an international instructor, should I openly talk about my accent?

Complex numbers z=-3-4i polar form

Drawing a german abacus as in the books of Adam Ries

std::unique_ptr of base class holding reference of derived class does not show warning in gcc compiler while naked pointer shows it. Why?

Multiple options vs single option UI

Which big number is bigger?

How exactly does Hawking radiation decrease the mass of black holes?

Is it acceptable to use working hours to read general interest books?

How to not starve gigantic beasts

Could moose/elk survive in the Amazon forest?

Why doesn't the standard consider a template constructor as a copy constructor?

How do I reattach a shelf to the wall when it ripped out of the wall?



Coin Game with infinite paradox


Flip a Fair CoinAnother probabilistic coin puzzleLeft coin, Right coin, Last coin- A fair versionCoin Flipping Game with the DevilCoin division puzzleEccentric Millionaire Probability ParadoxWhat is the value of this other coin flipping game?The asymmetric coin gameFind Coin's unfairness with only 4 tossesThe Monster and the Chessboard













12












$begingroup$


Here’s the puzzle/problem:
Let’s presume we are best friends. I own the house next to you. I make a gaming proposition along the following lines:
You throw a coin over and over again. So long as it comes up heads, you keep throwing. When it comes up tails you stop and I pay you $$$ — depending on how many heads you threw.



If you threw a tails to start, you get $0.



If you threw a heads then a tails, you get $1.



If you threw 2 heads then a tails, you get $2.



If you threw 3 heads, you get $4.



If you threw 4 heads, you get $8.



If you threw 5 heads, you get $16.



And on and on. The payoff doubles everytime you add an extra heads.



How much will you pay me to play this game (once)?



Note: This is not a loophole question, you will know when you have the right answer.










share|improve this question







New contributor




SpqrTiang is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$







  • 9




    $begingroup$
    This is known as St Petersburg paradox.en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Petersburg_paradox
    $endgroup$
    – Tojrah
    Apr 22 at 17:49






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    All the answers (until now) seem to tackle the mathematical / probabilistic angle of the question. I really hope that the "correct" answers requires to take into account the bits about "best friends" and "owning house next to you".
    $endgroup$
    – Neo
    2 days ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    "How much will you pay me to play this game (once)?" I think it would be more clear to phrase this as, "How much would you be willing to pay me to play this game (once)?" Unless you have phrased it very intentionally.
    $endgroup$
    – jpmc26
    2 days ago











  • $begingroup$
    The last line indicates that the asker intends this to be a math exercise, but many of the answers treat it as a subjective question rather than a puzzle.
    $endgroup$
    – noedne
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    Is there really any true answer to this question?
    $endgroup$
    – F3L1X79
    17 hours ago















12












$begingroup$


Here’s the puzzle/problem:
Let’s presume we are best friends. I own the house next to you. I make a gaming proposition along the following lines:
You throw a coin over and over again. So long as it comes up heads, you keep throwing. When it comes up tails you stop and I pay you $$$ — depending on how many heads you threw.



If you threw a tails to start, you get $0.



If you threw a heads then a tails, you get $1.



If you threw 2 heads then a tails, you get $2.



If you threw 3 heads, you get $4.



If you threw 4 heads, you get $8.



If you threw 5 heads, you get $16.



And on and on. The payoff doubles everytime you add an extra heads.



How much will you pay me to play this game (once)?



Note: This is not a loophole question, you will know when you have the right answer.










share|improve this question







New contributor




SpqrTiang is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$







  • 9




    $begingroup$
    This is known as St Petersburg paradox.en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Petersburg_paradox
    $endgroup$
    – Tojrah
    Apr 22 at 17:49






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    All the answers (until now) seem to tackle the mathematical / probabilistic angle of the question. I really hope that the "correct" answers requires to take into account the bits about "best friends" and "owning house next to you".
    $endgroup$
    – Neo
    2 days ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    "How much will you pay me to play this game (once)?" I think it would be more clear to phrase this as, "How much would you be willing to pay me to play this game (once)?" Unless you have phrased it very intentionally.
    $endgroup$
    – jpmc26
    2 days ago











  • $begingroup$
    The last line indicates that the asker intends this to be a math exercise, but many of the answers treat it as a subjective question rather than a puzzle.
    $endgroup$
    – noedne
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    Is there really any true answer to this question?
    $endgroup$
    – F3L1X79
    17 hours ago













12












12








12


6



$begingroup$


Here’s the puzzle/problem:
Let’s presume we are best friends. I own the house next to you. I make a gaming proposition along the following lines:
You throw a coin over and over again. So long as it comes up heads, you keep throwing. When it comes up tails you stop and I pay you $$$ — depending on how many heads you threw.



If you threw a tails to start, you get $0.



If you threw a heads then a tails, you get $1.



If you threw 2 heads then a tails, you get $2.



If you threw 3 heads, you get $4.



If you threw 4 heads, you get $8.



If you threw 5 heads, you get $16.



And on and on. The payoff doubles everytime you add an extra heads.



How much will you pay me to play this game (once)?



Note: This is not a loophole question, you will know when you have the right answer.










share|improve this question







New contributor




SpqrTiang is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




Here’s the puzzle/problem:
Let’s presume we are best friends. I own the house next to you. I make a gaming proposition along the following lines:
You throw a coin over and over again. So long as it comes up heads, you keep throwing. When it comes up tails you stop and I pay you $$$ — depending on how many heads you threw.



If you threw a tails to start, you get $0.



If you threw a heads then a tails, you get $1.



If you threw 2 heads then a tails, you get $2.



If you threw 3 heads, you get $4.



If you threw 4 heads, you get $8.



If you threw 5 heads, you get $16.



And on and on. The payoff doubles everytime you add an extra heads.



How much will you pay me to play this game (once)?



Note: This is not a loophole question, you will know when you have the right answer.







logical-deduction probability coins






share|improve this question







New contributor




SpqrTiang is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question







New contributor




SpqrTiang is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question






New contributor




SpqrTiang is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked Apr 22 at 17:12









SpqrTiangSpqrTiang

7313




7313




New contributor




SpqrTiang is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





SpqrTiang is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






SpqrTiang is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







  • 9




    $begingroup$
    This is known as St Petersburg paradox.en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Petersburg_paradox
    $endgroup$
    – Tojrah
    Apr 22 at 17:49






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    All the answers (until now) seem to tackle the mathematical / probabilistic angle of the question. I really hope that the "correct" answers requires to take into account the bits about "best friends" and "owning house next to you".
    $endgroup$
    – Neo
    2 days ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    "How much will you pay me to play this game (once)?" I think it would be more clear to phrase this as, "How much would you be willing to pay me to play this game (once)?" Unless you have phrased it very intentionally.
    $endgroup$
    – jpmc26
    2 days ago











  • $begingroup$
    The last line indicates that the asker intends this to be a math exercise, but many of the answers treat it as a subjective question rather than a puzzle.
    $endgroup$
    – noedne
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    Is there really any true answer to this question?
    $endgroup$
    – F3L1X79
    17 hours ago












  • 9




    $begingroup$
    This is known as St Petersburg paradox.en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Petersburg_paradox
    $endgroup$
    – Tojrah
    Apr 22 at 17:49






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    All the answers (until now) seem to tackle the mathematical / probabilistic angle of the question. I really hope that the "correct" answers requires to take into account the bits about "best friends" and "owning house next to you".
    $endgroup$
    – Neo
    2 days ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    "How much will you pay me to play this game (once)?" I think it would be more clear to phrase this as, "How much would you be willing to pay me to play this game (once)?" Unless you have phrased it very intentionally.
    $endgroup$
    – jpmc26
    2 days ago











  • $begingroup$
    The last line indicates that the asker intends this to be a math exercise, but many of the answers treat it as a subjective question rather than a puzzle.
    $endgroup$
    – noedne
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    Is there really any true answer to this question?
    $endgroup$
    – F3L1X79
    17 hours ago







9




9




$begingroup$
This is known as St Petersburg paradox.en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Petersburg_paradox
$endgroup$
– Tojrah
Apr 22 at 17:49




$begingroup$
This is known as St Petersburg paradox.en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Petersburg_paradox
$endgroup$
– Tojrah
Apr 22 at 17:49




5




5




$begingroup$
All the answers (until now) seem to tackle the mathematical / probabilistic angle of the question. I really hope that the "correct" answers requires to take into account the bits about "best friends" and "owning house next to you".
$endgroup$
– Neo
2 days ago




$begingroup$
All the answers (until now) seem to tackle the mathematical / probabilistic angle of the question. I really hope that the "correct" answers requires to take into account the bits about "best friends" and "owning house next to you".
$endgroup$
– Neo
2 days ago




3




3




$begingroup$
"How much will you pay me to play this game (once)?" I think it would be more clear to phrase this as, "How much would you be willing to pay me to play this game (once)?" Unless you have phrased it very intentionally.
$endgroup$
– jpmc26
2 days ago





$begingroup$
"How much will you pay me to play this game (once)?" I think it would be more clear to phrase this as, "How much would you be willing to pay me to play this game (once)?" Unless you have phrased it very intentionally.
$endgroup$
– jpmc26
2 days ago













$begingroup$
The last line indicates that the asker intends this to be a math exercise, but many of the answers treat it as a subjective question rather than a puzzle.
$endgroup$
– noedne
yesterday




$begingroup$
The last line indicates that the asker intends this to be a math exercise, but many of the answers treat it as a subjective question rather than a puzzle.
$endgroup$
– noedne
yesterday












$begingroup$
Is there really any true answer to this question?
$endgroup$
– F3L1X79
17 hours ago




$begingroup$
Is there really any true answer to this question?
$endgroup$
– F3L1X79
17 hours ago










11 Answers
11






active

oldest

votes


















27












$begingroup$

OK, let's actually take this seriously. As others have said, this is the so-called St Petersburg paradox, and the reason it isn't really much of a paradox is that (1) an extra dollar matters much less when you already have a lot of money and (2) our counterparty may not actually pay up. So let's model that.



The simplest somewhat-plausible way to handle #1 is to suppose that the value to you of your material assets is roughly proportional to the logarithm of their total value or, equivalently, that the value to you of your "next" dollar is roughly inversely proportional to your current net wealth. (There's some evidence that it actually grows a bit slower than that, but it'll do).



The way I'll handle #2 is to suppose that the probability that you pay up when I win $$X$ in the game is roughly proportional to $frac aa+X$ where $a$ is a fairly large number; so when $X$ is small you almost certainly pay and when $X$ is very large you almost certainly don't. (We should expect $a$ to be of the same order of magnitude as your net wealth in dollars; it's the size of payoff at which I think it's equally likely that you will or won't pay up.)



Then, if my net wealth before playing the game is $$w$ and your pay-or-don't parameter is $$a$, the "correct" price $$p$ is such that



$$frac12logfracw-pw+sum_k=0^inftyfrac12^k+2fracaa+2^klogfracw-p+2^kw=0.$$



This isn't the sort of thing we should expect to be able to solve analytically; so far as I know there is no nice closed form for that sum. But we can do it numerically. Here are some specific results. (I cannot guarantee that I haven't messed up the calculations, though the numbers seem plausible enough to me.)



  • Suppose your $a$ parameter is ($)1000000, so that your probability of paying up has reduced to 1/2 by the time you owe me a megabuck. And suppose my own net wealth happens also to be one megabuck. Then I should be willing to pay about $4.87.

  • Suppose my net wealth remains at $1M but now $a$ is $$10^9$; even once you owe me a billion dollars you might well pay up. Then the amount I'm willing to pay increases to about ... $5.46.

  • Suppose you remain a billionaire but I am much poorer, having only $1000 to my name. Then the amount I'm willing to pay goes down to $2.98. (It goes down because the poorer I am, the faster the value-to-me of a dollar decreases as I get more.)

  • Suppose we're both poor, so I'm at $1000 and your $a$ parameter is the same. Then I am willing to pay about $2.39.

  • Suppose I am a billionaire and you have infinitely much money. Then I am willing to pay about $12.80.

So I'm fairly comfortable answering the original question as follows: I am willing to pay somewhere between about $2 and about $13, depending on how wealthy we both are and how much I trust you to pay up even if doing so is painful for you.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    While I feel like this is rather sound, I do feel like you've introduced bias at the end of the spectrum (a billionaire playing a 12 bucks game does not seem realistic). Adding a source for evidence where the value of the dollar grows slower and making it more realistic would make it an even stronger answer. Or are you saying the range of 2-13 would be narrower based on that relation?
    $endgroup$
    – PascalVKooten
    2 days ago











  • $begingroup$
    What do you mean by "bias" and by "realistic"? You should expect the "value" of this thing to grow at most logarithmically with your (and your counterparty's) wealth, because the contribution to your expected return in dollars is 25 cents from the case where you win $1, 25 cents from the case where you win $2, 25 cents from the case where you win $4, etc. -- each doubling brings in a constant amount of extra expected money.
    $endgroup$
    – Gareth McCaughan
    2 days ago







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    In reality a billionaire might well be totally uninterested in playing this game at all, because presumably they got to be a billionaire by doing something and doing more of it probably brings them a much bigger return on time taken than playing this game could.
    $endgroup$
    – Gareth McCaughan
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    Isn't this analysis kind of arbitrary and subjective? It doesn't really seem like the solution to a puzzle.
    $endgroup$
    – noedne
    yesterday











  • $begingroup$
    I certainly don't imagine it's what OP had in mind. (Perhaps they wanted "an infinite amount" or something like that.) There are plenty of tweaks you could make -- different utility function, different way of handling the fact that very large payoffs probably never actually happen -- but I would expect the numbers to come out in something like the same sort of range for any plausible way of doing it.
    $endgroup$
    – Gareth McCaughan
    yesterday


















16












$begingroup$

This gambling problem is the famous St. Petersburg paradox. It is a paradox because




the wager has infinite expected value regardless of the amount paid to play. A rational agent should pay
any amount of money to play this game, and over many rounds of the game, they can expect to make a profit.




The one issue with this theoretical result is that it requires no upper limit on the possible winnings - if you make it through enough coin flips, you can win more money than the combined wealth of everyone on the planet. If we limit the lottery to a maximum payout of the world GDP (~$55 trillion), the expected value of the lottery is




around $45.




This analysis also assumes that each dollar won has equal utility, which is a measure of what a dollar means to you personally. Utility of money tends to flatten out for large amounts - a $10 million, for example, is a life-changing amount of money, but the next $10 million won't have as big an impact on your life as the first $10 million. So, $20 million is not really "worth" twice as much as $10 million. The "infinite wager" solution to the St. Petersburg paradox assumes constant utility of money, even though that's not a realistic model of how people behave.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 3




    $begingroup$
    As a small addition to this (already good and complete) answer, I think it might be worth point out that for the paradox, you don't need the utility of money to be constant; you just need the utility of an unbounded amount of money to be unbounded. That is, no matter how much money you already have, there is always an amount of money that makes you 1% happier. Then simply replace each successive doubling of money with whatever number doubles the utility of the previous amount of money.
    $endgroup$
    – Mees de Vries
    Apr 22 at 21:39










  • $begingroup$
    For most people, they simply never reach the state where this understanding makes sense. However, if you have 100 million, an extra $10 million is basically not going to do anything close to improve your happiness by 10%. In fact, the first thought might be "Damn, how did I miss 10 mil? Do I need to fire my accountant(s) now?" or "Damn, how do I prevent getting taxed on this?"
    $endgroup$
    – Nelson
    yesterday



















11












$begingroup$

I would pay




Zero, because I dont need to convince you anything. You are offering me to toss and have a fixed value to give me. Why would I pay anything?







share|improve this answer








New contributor




Moacir is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$




















    8












    $begingroup$

    There are several nuances to this question. First of all, it asks how much you are willing to pay, not what price is fair. Second, you have to understand, that even if a game is fair, that does not mean that It is reasonable to play it.

    For example, if someone offers me a one in a million chance to win a million dollars for 1, I will take it. It seems reasonable. But if someone offered me a one in a million chance to win a billion dollars for 1000, I would not. What’s the difference? I am willing to lose a dollar for a small chance at success, but I am not willing to lose a thousand dollars for that same small chance, even if the reward is adjusted accordingly.

    You have to factor in how much money you are willing to lose if the game does not go your way, especially if you only play once.




    Since there is a 50% chance to lose your whole wager, the question becomes how much is the reward, but also how much are you willing to lose for it? If the reward was a million dollars, I would not wager 500,000 for a 50% chance to lose it, even if that is a “fair” game.

    Realistically, I know the chance of getting a long streak of heads in a row is very low. Even though in 100 coin flips it’s not uncommon to have several streaks of 5 to 7 heads or tails in a row, playing the game only once means that the law of large numbers doesn’t apply.

    For these reasons, I would not wager more than $1 for this game, because I don’t expect to see more than 3 heads in a row.







    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$




















      8












      $begingroup$

      I would not pay anything. I would not play. I would encourage you to not play. Are you doing okay? I'm willing to help you out of you need help. I would offer you a hug.



      You are my best friend, and you live right next to me. Any outcome of this game that would be monetarily meaningful to either of us would also most likely be highly damaging to our friendship. Having a very good friend who lives next door is worth far more to me than whatever money I might manage to extract from you over a game like this if I did win big, and if I did not, that too would be damaging. Better to instead pay attention to the person who is my best friend. Why would you make an offer like this that is so potentially self-destructive?






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$




















        6












        $begingroup$

        $16, Consider what else we know:



        1. You are my best friend

        2. The currency you're using is US dollars

        3. You own a home (namely the one next to mine)

        What do these things imply?



        1. Because I'm your best friend, I won't want you to have to move away by you having to sell your house in order to pay me.

        2. We're in the USA

        3. The median price of a home in the USA is around $200,000

        Conclusions: I'm probably not going to hold you to your agreement if you owe me more than half of your home's worth, because we're friends. So $2^16 is $65,536 is where we'll probably stop if I keep throwing heads. Therefore the expectation value is really 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1=16 so $16, $17 if I'm a jerk who is willing to take $131,072 from his best friend.






        share|improve this answer










        New contributor




        Mathaddict is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.






        $endgroup$












        • $begingroup$
          This is the only answer I see that actually takes into account both the house and the friendship. I think winning a third of your best friend's net worth is a bit much though :)
          $endgroup$
          – JollyJoker
          yesterday






        • 1




          $begingroup$
          @JollyJoker Please note that I'm not assuming that the value of his home is his net worth. We don't know anything else, and depending on the affluence of the neighborhood, it could be much less than a third of his home's value. I'm trying to put an upper bound on the value.
          $endgroup$
          – Mathaddict
          yesterday


















        1












        $begingroup$

        I would pay you




        All my money, and then be sad when I lost it all on the first flip




        because




        Let the amount I pay you be represented as C. After paying C, you have a 1/2 chance of winning 0, a 1/4 chance of winning 1, a 1/8 chance of winning 2, a 1/16 chance of winning 4 etc. Your expected payout would be $$-C + sum_i=0^infty frac12^i+22^i = -C + sum_i=0^infty frac14 = -C + infty$$ Theoretically if you played forever and ever, you would profit no matter how much you paid per game. Realistically, you would probably not profit no matter how much you paid.







        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$












        • $begingroup$
          Even at only investing 1000 dollars (everything you have), you realize you only profit from this in 0.09% of the cases. The gain to you, even if you would win, is not going to be worth losing everything. You might want to risk 1000 dollars when you have a billion, but putting everything on the line for a theoretical expected value of infinity is horrible. I suggest you investigate this further.
          $endgroup$
          – PascalVKooten
          2 days ago











        • $begingroup$
          @PascalVKooten The Wikipedia page on the St. Petersburg paradox has an interesting discussion about this which takes into account the utility of money. A rich person can safely wager more than a poor one, because they won't become bankrupt if they lose. For very poor individuals, though, it's actually the correct move to go into debt to play this game!
          $endgroup$
          – Nuclear Wang
          2 days ago










        • $begingroup$
          @NuclearWang Yes, I will give you that, it would hold if you have like 1 dollar or something. But already at 1000$ I would argue that this does not hold. You'd need a lot of consecutive heads for this to be worth it. A one-shot 0.09% chance of getting even (or better) is not going to be worth the money in this situation.
          $endgroup$
          – PascalVKooten
          2 days ago



















        1












        $begingroup$

        What I will pay:




        $14.29




        updated after fixing a bug in my code, old wrong value was




        $14.54 Gosh that's not much of a difference




        Because:




        That is one penny less than I expect to get paid out on average per game, so that means that if I offer that price to the neighbor and the neighbor accepts, then I have a better than 50% chance of getting more money back, even if only by a penny.




        Why do I think that?




        Well, I am not 100% up on my statistics, so I wrote a program to simulate playing the game and then ran that simulation about 200,000,000,000 times. Averaging the payout each time. My code could totally be off as I coded it naively in JS(I don't know R or python for NumPy and didn't have time to learn enough to make this simulation). In fact I realize that just my heads or tails code, if not exactly 50%, could mess up my calculations. But that's my best shot.







        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$












        • $begingroup$
          Here's my try of this algorithm in javascript : jsfiddle.net/15kwo2gf Average result found is around 5 or 6$
          $endgroup$
          – F3L1X79
          12 hours ago











        • $begingroup$
          Thanks, I will put my code into a fiddle and post the link when I can. Among other things, I am using a different heads or tails but not very different.
          $endgroup$
          – Elliot_The_Curious
          11 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          If needed, I updated the code a bit: jsfiddle.net/s2b951nr/1 Obviously, the results tend to go higher the higher you input the number of tries but I limited it to 20000000 tries for the safety of my browser. It should be fun to use the existing population on earth (7.7 billion) for the tests.
          $endgroup$
          – F3L1X79
          10 hours ago











        • $begingroup$
          Here is the fiddle: link full disclosure: It includes a mistake I found thanks to having to look over my code again to see where our code is different(Thanks!). I left the mistake in, but I will run another simulation without the mistake and see what difference it makes.
          $endgroup$
          – Elliot_The_Curious
          10 hours ago


















        0












        $begingroup$

        I will pay you




        One dollar




        to play this game, because




        The amount you pay me has no bearing on what I pay you.

        If there was a single throw there would be 50-50 chance of getting my dollar back.

        But the game can go on, so there is better than 50-50 of getting my dollar back.

        Your bankroll is the limit — your house against my $1.







        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$








        • 5




          $begingroup$
          Why not pay one penny instead of a whole dollar? Alternatively, if the game was offered for $1.01, you would reject the offer?
          $endgroup$
          – Nuclear Wang
          Apr 22 at 19:01






        • 1




          $begingroup$
          @NuclearWang please don't reveal the hidden answer. In answer to your question, because in the land of this puzzle I don't know if a penny exists. But I do know that the amount I stated exists.
          $endgroup$
          – Weather Vane
          Apr 22 at 19:03











        • $begingroup$
          Your answer to @NuclearWang ignores his/her second question. Replace 1.01 by 2 if you like it better, the point of the question is the same.
          $endgroup$
          – Arnaud Mortier
          Apr 22 at 19:27






        • 1




          $begingroup$
          "Note, this is not a loophole question".
          $endgroup$
          – SpqrTiang
          Apr 22 at 20:57






        • 1




          $begingroup$
          You're taking "How much will I pay" too literal.
          $endgroup$
          – PascalVKooten
          2 days ago


















        0












        $begingroup$

        Maybe I'm making a mistake in this reasoning, but I believe that the logical answer is:




        I would pay 1 $




        Explanation




        Let $n$ be number of throws, following a risk-adjusted cost approach, the probability corrected money $M$ you win from playing is equal to the average of the prize (2 to the power of n consecutive throws) multiplied by the probability of getting that prize (n consecutive throws):

        $ M = (2^n - 1) times (1/2)^n Leftrightarrow $

        $ M = frac2^n - 12^n$

        $M_n rightarrow infty = 1$, and therefore the average money earned by playing this game will tend to 1 $ (remember that this game has not cumulative earnings, in opposition to the St. Petersburg paradox)

        Because I am playing with my best friend, I don't want him to lose money (but also not me) and, therefore, I will pay him the average prize that I will win so that the net loss/earnings between us is zero.







        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$












        • $begingroup$
          Your equation doesn't seem to match the game description. According to your math, at n=1, M=0.5. According to the game description, at n=1, M=1.
          $endgroup$
          – glibdud
          yesterday










        • $begingroup$
          @glibdud It does, but maybe I did not explain myself correctly. From a "risk analysis" point of view, I will have a "balanced" earning of 0.5 for 1 throw. For 2 throws, my "balanced earnings" will be 0.75, and so on. It's like saying that if I play once, my average earning will be 50 cent. I will edit my answer to try to make myself more clear.
          $endgroup$
          – cinico
          yesterday



















        -1












        $begingroup$

        To play once I would pay:




        50 cents, since it is a doubling game and one heads is a dollar.







        share|improve this answer










        New contributor




        likwidfire2k is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.






        $endgroup$













          Your Answer








          StackExchange.ready(function()
          var channelOptions =
          tags: "".split(" "),
          id: "559"
          ;
          initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

          StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
          // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
          if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
          StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
          createEditor();
          );

          else
          createEditor();

          );

          function createEditor()
          StackExchange.prepareEditor(
          heartbeatType: 'answer',
          autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
          convertImagesToLinks: false,
          noModals: true,
          showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
          reputationToPostImages: null,
          bindNavPrevention: true,
          postfix: "",
          imageUploader:
          brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
          contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
          allowUrls: true
          ,
          noCode: true, onDemand: true,
          discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
          ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
          );



          );






          SpqrTiang is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









          draft saved

          draft discarded


















          StackExchange.ready(
          function ()
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fpuzzling.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f82060%2fcoin-game-with-infinite-paradox%23new-answer', 'question_page');

          );

          Post as a guest















          Required, but never shown

























          11 Answers
          11






          active

          oldest

          votes








          11 Answers
          11






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          27












          $begingroup$

          OK, let's actually take this seriously. As others have said, this is the so-called St Petersburg paradox, and the reason it isn't really much of a paradox is that (1) an extra dollar matters much less when you already have a lot of money and (2) our counterparty may not actually pay up. So let's model that.



          The simplest somewhat-plausible way to handle #1 is to suppose that the value to you of your material assets is roughly proportional to the logarithm of their total value or, equivalently, that the value to you of your "next" dollar is roughly inversely proportional to your current net wealth. (There's some evidence that it actually grows a bit slower than that, but it'll do).



          The way I'll handle #2 is to suppose that the probability that you pay up when I win $$X$ in the game is roughly proportional to $frac aa+X$ where $a$ is a fairly large number; so when $X$ is small you almost certainly pay and when $X$ is very large you almost certainly don't. (We should expect $a$ to be of the same order of magnitude as your net wealth in dollars; it's the size of payoff at which I think it's equally likely that you will or won't pay up.)



          Then, if my net wealth before playing the game is $$w$ and your pay-or-don't parameter is $$a$, the "correct" price $$p$ is such that



          $$frac12logfracw-pw+sum_k=0^inftyfrac12^k+2fracaa+2^klogfracw-p+2^kw=0.$$



          This isn't the sort of thing we should expect to be able to solve analytically; so far as I know there is no nice closed form for that sum. But we can do it numerically. Here are some specific results. (I cannot guarantee that I haven't messed up the calculations, though the numbers seem plausible enough to me.)



          • Suppose your $a$ parameter is ($)1000000, so that your probability of paying up has reduced to 1/2 by the time you owe me a megabuck. And suppose my own net wealth happens also to be one megabuck. Then I should be willing to pay about $4.87.

          • Suppose my net wealth remains at $1M but now $a$ is $$10^9$; even once you owe me a billion dollars you might well pay up. Then the amount I'm willing to pay increases to about ... $5.46.

          • Suppose you remain a billionaire but I am much poorer, having only $1000 to my name. Then the amount I'm willing to pay goes down to $2.98. (It goes down because the poorer I am, the faster the value-to-me of a dollar decreases as I get more.)

          • Suppose we're both poor, so I'm at $1000 and your $a$ parameter is the same. Then I am willing to pay about $2.39.

          • Suppose I am a billionaire and you have infinitely much money. Then I am willing to pay about $12.80.

          So I'm fairly comfortable answering the original question as follows: I am willing to pay somewhere between about $2 and about $13, depending on how wealthy we both are and how much I trust you to pay up even if doing so is painful for you.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            While I feel like this is rather sound, I do feel like you've introduced bias at the end of the spectrum (a billionaire playing a 12 bucks game does not seem realistic). Adding a source for evidence where the value of the dollar grows slower and making it more realistic would make it an even stronger answer. Or are you saying the range of 2-13 would be narrower based on that relation?
            $endgroup$
            – PascalVKooten
            2 days ago











          • $begingroup$
            What do you mean by "bias" and by "realistic"? You should expect the "value" of this thing to grow at most logarithmically with your (and your counterparty's) wealth, because the contribution to your expected return in dollars is 25 cents from the case where you win $1, 25 cents from the case where you win $2, 25 cents from the case where you win $4, etc. -- each doubling brings in a constant amount of extra expected money.
            $endgroup$
            – Gareth McCaughan
            2 days ago







          • 1




            $begingroup$
            In reality a billionaire might well be totally uninterested in playing this game at all, because presumably they got to be a billionaire by doing something and doing more of it probably brings them a much bigger return on time taken than playing this game could.
            $endgroup$
            – Gareth McCaughan
            2 days ago










          • $begingroup$
            Isn't this analysis kind of arbitrary and subjective? It doesn't really seem like the solution to a puzzle.
            $endgroup$
            – noedne
            yesterday











          • $begingroup$
            I certainly don't imagine it's what OP had in mind. (Perhaps they wanted "an infinite amount" or something like that.) There are plenty of tweaks you could make -- different utility function, different way of handling the fact that very large payoffs probably never actually happen -- but I would expect the numbers to come out in something like the same sort of range for any plausible way of doing it.
            $endgroup$
            – Gareth McCaughan
            yesterday















          27












          $begingroup$

          OK, let's actually take this seriously. As others have said, this is the so-called St Petersburg paradox, and the reason it isn't really much of a paradox is that (1) an extra dollar matters much less when you already have a lot of money and (2) our counterparty may not actually pay up. So let's model that.



          The simplest somewhat-plausible way to handle #1 is to suppose that the value to you of your material assets is roughly proportional to the logarithm of their total value or, equivalently, that the value to you of your "next" dollar is roughly inversely proportional to your current net wealth. (There's some evidence that it actually grows a bit slower than that, but it'll do).



          The way I'll handle #2 is to suppose that the probability that you pay up when I win $$X$ in the game is roughly proportional to $frac aa+X$ where $a$ is a fairly large number; so when $X$ is small you almost certainly pay and when $X$ is very large you almost certainly don't. (We should expect $a$ to be of the same order of magnitude as your net wealth in dollars; it's the size of payoff at which I think it's equally likely that you will or won't pay up.)



          Then, if my net wealth before playing the game is $$w$ and your pay-or-don't parameter is $$a$, the "correct" price $$p$ is such that



          $$frac12logfracw-pw+sum_k=0^inftyfrac12^k+2fracaa+2^klogfracw-p+2^kw=0.$$



          This isn't the sort of thing we should expect to be able to solve analytically; so far as I know there is no nice closed form for that sum. But we can do it numerically. Here are some specific results. (I cannot guarantee that I haven't messed up the calculations, though the numbers seem plausible enough to me.)



          • Suppose your $a$ parameter is ($)1000000, so that your probability of paying up has reduced to 1/2 by the time you owe me a megabuck. And suppose my own net wealth happens also to be one megabuck. Then I should be willing to pay about $4.87.

          • Suppose my net wealth remains at $1M but now $a$ is $$10^9$; even once you owe me a billion dollars you might well pay up. Then the amount I'm willing to pay increases to about ... $5.46.

          • Suppose you remain a billionaire but I am much poorer, having only $1000 to my name. Then the amount I'm willing to pay goes down to $2.98. (It goes down because the poorer I am, the faster the value-to-me of a dollar decreases as I get more.)

          • Suppose we're both poor, so I'm at $1000 and your $a$ parameter is the same. Then I am willing to pay about $2.39.

          • Suppose I am a billionaire and you have infinitely much money. Then I am willing to pay about $12.80.

          So I'm fairly comfortable answering the original question as follows: I am willing to pay somewhere between about $2 and about $13, depending on how wealthy we both are and how much I trust you to pay up even if doing so is painful for you.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            While I feel like this is rather sound, I do feel like you've introduced bias at the end of the spectrum (a billionaire playing a 12 bucks game does not seem realistic). Adding a source for evidence where the value of the dollar grows slower and making it more realistic would make it an even stronger answer. Or are you saying the range of 2-13 would be narrower based on that relation?
            $endgroup$
            – PascalVKooten
            2 days ago











          • $begingroup$
            What do you mean by "bias" and by "realistic"? You should expect the "value" of this thing to grow at most logarithmically with your (and your counterparty's) wealth, because the contribution to your expected return in dollars is 25 cents from the case where you win $1, 25 cents from the case where you win $2, 25 cents from the case where you win $4, etc. -- each doubling brings in a constant amount of extra expected money.
            $endgroup$
            – Gareth McCaughan
            2 days ago







          • 1




            $begingroup$
            In reality a billionaire might well be totally uninterested in playing this game at all, because presumably they got to be a billionaire by doing something and doing more of it probably brings them a much bigger return on time taken than playing this game could.
            $endgroup$
            – Gareth McCaughan
            2 days ago










          • $begingroup$
            Isn't this analysis kind of arbitrary and subjective? It doesn't really seem like the solution to a puzzle.
            $endgroup$
            – noedne
            yesterday











          • $begingroup$
            I certainly don't imagine it's what OP had in mind. (Perhaps they wanted "an infinite amount" or something like that.) There are plenty of tweaks you could make -- different utility function, different way of handling the fact that very large payoffs probably never actually happen -- but I would expect the numbers to come out in something like the same sort of range for any plausible way of doing it.
            $endgroup$
            – Gareth McCaughan
            yesterday













          27












          27








          27





          $begingroup$

          OK, let's actually take this seriously. As others have said, this is the so-called St Petersburg paradox, and the reason it isn't really much of a paradox is that (1) an extra dollar matters much less when you already have a lot of money and (2) our counterparty may not actually pay up. So let's model that.



          The simplest somewhat-plausible way to handle #1 is to suppose that the value to you of your material assets is roughly proportional to the logarithm of their total value or, equivalently, that the value to you of your "next" dollar is roughly inversely proportional to your current net wealth. (There's some evidence that it actually grows a bit slower than that, but it'll do).



          The way I'll handle #2 is to suppose that the probability that you pay up when I win $$X$ in the game is roughly proportional to $frac aa+X$ where $a$ is a fairly large number; so when $X$ is small you almost certainly pay and when $X$ is very large you almost certainly don't. (We should expect $a$ to be of the same order of magnitude as your net wealth in dollars; it's the size of payoff at which I think it's equally likely that you will or won't pay up.)



          Then, if my net wealth before playing the game is $$w$ and your pay-or-don't parameter is $$a$, the "correct" price $$p$ is such that



          $$frac12logfracw-pw+sum_k=0^inftyfrac12^k+2fracaa+2^klogfracw-p+2^kw=0.$$



          This isn't the sort of thing we should expect to be able to solve analytically; so far as I know there is no nice closed form for that sum. But we can do it numerically. Here are some specific results. (I cannot guarantee that I haven't messed up the calculations, though the numbers seem plausible enough to me.)



          • Suppose your $a$ parameter is ($)1000000, so that your probability of paying up has reduced to 1/2 by the time you owe me a megabuck. And suppose my own net wealth happens also to be one megabuck. Then I should be willing to pay about $4.87.

          • Suppose my net wealth remains at $1M but now $a$ is $$10^9$; even once you owe me a billion dollars you might well pay up. Then the amount I'm willing to pay increases to about ... $5.46.

          • Suppose you remain a billionaire but I am much poorer, having only $1000 to my name. Then the amount I'm willing to pay goes down to $2.98. (It goes down because the poorer I am, the faster the value-to-me of a dollar decreases as I get more.)

          • Suppose we're both poor, so I'm at $1000 and your $a$ parameter is the same. Then I am willing to pay about $2.39.

          • Suppose I am a billionaire and you have infinitely much money. Then I am willing to pay about $12.80.

          So I'm fairly comfortable answering the original question as follows: I am willing to pay somewhere between about $2 and about $13, depending on how wealthy we both are and how much I trust you to pay up even if doing so is painful for you.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          OK, let's actually take this seriously. As others have said, this is the so-called St Petersburg paradox, and the reason it isn't really much of a paradox is that (1) an extra dollar matters much less when you already have a lot of money and (2) our counterparty may not actually pay up. So let's model that.



          The simplest somewhat-plausible way to handle #1 is to suppose that the value to you of your material assets is roughly proportional to the logarithm of their total value or, equivalently, that the value to you of your "next" dollar is roughly inversely proportional to your current net wealth. (There's some evidence that it actually grows a bit slower than that, but it'll do).



          The way I'll handle #2 is to suppose that the probability that you pay up when I win $$X$ in the game is roughly proportional to $frac aa+X$ where $a$ is a fairly large number; so when $X$ is small you almost certainly pay and when $X$ is very large you almost certainly don't. (We should expect $a$ to be of the same order of magnitude as your net wealth in dollars; it's the size of payoff at which I think it's equally likely that you will or won't pay up.)



          Then, if my net wealth before playing the game is $$w$ and your pay-or-don't parameter is $$a$, the "correct" price $$p$ is such that



          $$frac12logfracw-pw+sum_k=0^inftyfrac12^k+2fracaa+2^klogfracw-p+2^kw=0.$$



          This isn't the sort of thing we should expect to be able to solve analytically; so far as I know there is no nice closed form for that sum. But we can do it numerically. Here are some specific results. (I cannot guarantee that I haven't messed up the calculations, though the numbers seem plausible enough to me.)



          • Suppose your $a$ parameter is ($)1000000, so that your probability of paying up has reduced to 1/2 by the time you owe me a megabuck. And suppose my own net wealth happens also to be one megabuck. Then I should be willing to pay about $4.87.

          • Suppose my net wealth remains at $1M but now $a$ is $$10^9$; even once you owe me a billion dollars you might well pay up. Then the amount I'm willing to pay increases to about ... $5.46.

          • Suppose you remain a billionaire but I am much poorer, having only $1000 to my name. Then the amount I'm willing to pay goes down to $2.98. (It goes down because the poorer I am, the faster the value-to-me of a dollar decreases as I get more.)

          • Suppose we're both poor, so I'm at $1000 and your $a$ parameter is the same. Then I am willing to pay about $2.39.

          • Suppose I am a billionaire and you have infinitely much money. Then I am willing to pay about $12.80.

          So I'm fairly comfortable answering the original question as follows: I am willing to pay somewhere between about $2 and about $13, depending on how wealthy we both are and how much I trust you to pay up even if doing so is painful for you.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered Apr 22 at 19:10









          Gareth McCaughanGareth McCaughan

          68.3k3173267




          68.3k3173267











          • $begingroup$
            While I feel like this is rather sound, I do feel like you've introduced bias at the end of the spectrum (a billionaire playing a 12 bucks game does not seem realistic). Adding a source for evidence where the value of the dollar grows slower and making it more realistic would make it an even stronger answer. Or are you saying the range of 2-13 would be narrower based on that relation?
            $endgroup$
            – PascalVKooten
            2 days ago











          • $begingroup$
            What do you mean by "bias" and by "realistic"? You should expect the "value" of this thing to grow at most logarithmically with your (and your counterparty's) wealth, because the contribution to your expected return in dollars is 25 cents from the case where you win $1, 25 cents from the case where you win $2, 25 cents from the case where you win $4, etc. -- each doubling brings in a constant amount of extra expected money.
            $endgroup$
            – Gareth McCaughan
            2 days ago







          • 1




            $begingroup$
            In reality a billionaire might well be totally uninterested in playing this game at all, because presumably they got to be a billionaire by doing something and doing more of it probably brings them a much bigger return on time taken than playing this game could.
            $endgroup$
            – Gareth McCaughan
            2 days ago










          • $begingroup$
            Isn't this analysis kind of arbitrary and subjective? It doesn't really seem like the solution to a puzzle.
            $endgroup$
            – noedne
            yesterday











          • $begingroup$
            I certainly don't imagine it's what OP had in mind. (Perhaps they wanted "an infinite amount" or something like that.) There are plenty of tweaks you could make -- different utility function, different way of handling the fact that very large payoffs probably never actually happen -- but I would expect the numbers to come out in something like the same sort of range for any plausible way of doing it.
            $endgroup$
            – Gareth McCaughan
            yesterday
















          • $begingroup$
            While I feel like this is rather sound, I do feel like you've introduced bias at the end of the spectrum (a billionaire playing a 12 bucks game does not seem realistic). Adding a source for evidence where the value of the dollar grows slower and making it more realistic would make it an even stronger answer. Or are you saying the range of 2-13 would be narrower based on that relation?
            $endgroup$
            – PascalVKooten
            2 days ago











          • $begingroup$
            What do you mean by "bias" and by "realistic"? You should expect the "value" of this thing to grow at most logarithmically with your (and your counterparty's) wealth, because the contribution to your expected return in dollars is 25 cents from the case where you win $1, 25 cents from the case where you win $2, 25 cents from the case where you win $4, etc. -- each doubling brings in a constant amount of extra expected money.
            $endgroup$
            – Gareth McCaughan
            2 days ago







          • 1




            $begingroup$
            In reality a billionaire might well be totally uninterested in playing this game at all, because presumably they got to be a billionaire by doing something and doing more of it probably brings them a much bigger return on time taken than playing this game could.
            $endgroup$
            – Gareth McCaughan
            2 days ago










          • $begingroup$
            Isn't this analysis kind of arbitrary and subjective? It doesn't really seem like the solution to a puzzle.
            $endgroup$
            – noedne
            yesterday











          • $begingroup$
            I certainly don't imagine it's what OP had in mind. (Perhaps they wanted "an infinite amount" or something like that.) There are plenty of tweaks you could make -- different utility function, different way of handling the fact that very large payoffs probably never actually happen -- but I would expect the numbers to come out in something like the same sort of range for any plausible way of doing it.
            $endgroup$
            – Gareth McCaughan
            yesterday















          $begingroup$
          While I feel like this is rather sound, I do feel like you've introduced bias at the end of the spectrum (a billionaire playing a 12 bucks game does not seem realistic). Adding a source for evidence where the value of the dollar grows slower and making it more realistic would make it an even stronger answer. Or are you saying the range of 2-13 would be narrower based on that relation?
          $endgroup$
          – PascalVKooten
          2 days ago





          $begingroup$
          While I feel like this is rather sound, I do feel like you've introduced bias at the end of the spectrum (a billionaire playing a 12 bucks game does not seem realistic). Adding a source for evidence where the value of the dollar grows slower and making it more realistic would make it an even stronger answer. Or are you saying the range of 2-13 would be narrower based on that relation?
          $endgroup$
          – PascalVKooten
          2 days ago













          $begingroup$
          What do you mean by "bias" and by "realistic"? You should expect the "value" of this thing to grow at most logarithmically with your (and your counterparty's) wealth, because the contribution to your expected return in dollars is 25 cents from the case where you win $1, 25 cents from the case where you win $2, 25 cents from the case where you win $4, etc. -- each doubling brings in a constant amount of extra expected money.
          $endgroup$
          – Gareth McCaughan
          2 days ago





          $begingroup$
          What do you mean by "bias" and by "realistic"? You should expect the "value" of this thing to grow at most logarithmically with your (and your counterparty's) wealth, because the contribution to your expected return in dollars is 25 cents from the case where you win $1, 25 cents from the case where you win $2, 25 cents from the case where you win $4, etc. -- each doubling brings in a constant amount of extra expected money.
          $endgroup$
          – Gareth McCaughan
          2 days ago





          1




          1




          $begingroup$
          In reality a billionaire might well be totally uninterested in playing this game at all, because presumably they got to be a billionaire by doing something and doing more of it probably brings them a much bigger return on time taken than playing this game could.
          $endgroup$
          – Gareth McCaughan
          2 days ago




          $begingroup$
          In reality a billionaire might well be totally uninterested in playing this game at all, because presumably they got to be a billionaire by doing something and doing more of it probably brings them a much bigger return on time taken than playing this game could.
          $endgroup$
          – Gareth McCaughan
          2 days ago












          $begingroup$
          Isn't this analysis kind of arbitrary and subjective? It doesn't really seem like the solution to a puzzle.
          $endgroup$
          – noedne
          yesterday





          $begingroup$
          Isn't this analysis kind of arbitrary and subjective? It doesn't really seem like the solution to a puzzle.
          $endgroup$
          – noedne
          yesterday













          $begingroup$
          I certainly don't imagine it's what OP had in mind. (Perhaps they wanted "an infinite amount" or something like that.) There are plenty of tweaks you could make -- different utility function, different way of handling the fact that very large payoffs probably never actually happen -- but I would expect the numbers to come out in something like the same sort of range for any plausible way of doing it.
          $endgroup$
          – Gareth McCaughan
          yesterday




          $begingroup$
          I certainly don't imagine it's what OP had in mind. (Perhaps they wanted "an infinite amount" or something like that.) There are plenty of tweaks you could make -- different utility function, different way of handling the fact that very large payoffs probably never actually happen -- but I would expect the numbers to come out in something like the same sort of range for any plausible way of doing it.
          $endgroup$
          – Gareth McCaughan
          yesterday











          16












          $begingroup$

          This gambling problem is the famous St. Petersburg paradox. It is a paradox because




          the wager has infinite expected value regardless of the amount paid to play. A rational agent should pay
          any amount of money to play this game, and over many rounds of the game, they can expect to make a profit.




          The one issue with this theoretical result is that it requires no upper limit on the possible winnings - if you make it through enough coin flips, you can win more money than the combined wealth of everyone on the planet. If we limit the lottery to a maximum payout of the world GDP (~$55 trillion), the expected value of the lottery is




          around $45.




          This analysis also assumes that each dollar won has equal utility, which is a measure of what a dollar means to you personally. Utility of money tends to flatten out for large amounts - a $10 million, for example, is a life-changing amount of money, but the next $10 million won't have as big an impact on your life as the first $10 million. So, $20 million is not really "worth" twice as much as $10 million. The "infinite wager" solution to the St. Petersburg paradox assumes constant utility of money, even though that's not a realistic model of how people behave.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$








          • 3




            $begingroup$
            As a small addition to this (already good and complete) answer, I think it might be worth point out that for the paradox, you don't need the utility of money to be constant; you just need the utility of an unbounded amount of money to be unbounded. That is, no matter how much money you already have, there is always an amount of money that makes you 1% happier. Then simply replace each successive doubling of money with whatever number doubles the utility of the previous amount of money.
            $endgroup$
            – Mees de Vries
            Apr 22 at 21:39










          • $begingroup$
            For most people, they simply never reach the state where this understanding makes sense. However, if you have 100 million, an extra $10 million is basically not going to do anything close to improve your happiness by 10%. In fact, the first thought might be "Damn, how did I miss 10 mil? Do I need to fire my accountant(s) now?" or "Damn, how do I prevent getting taxed on this?"
            $endgroup$
            – Nelson
            yesterday
















          16












          $begingroup$

          This gambling problem is the famous St. Petersburg paradox. It is a paradox because




          the wager has infinite expected value regardless of the amount paid to play. A rational agent should pay
          any amount of money to play this game, and over many rounds of the game, they can expect to make a profit.




          The one issue with this theoretical result is that it requires no upper limit on the possible winnings - if you make it through enough coin flips, you can win more money than the combined wealth of everyone on the planet. If we limit the lottery to a maximum payout of the world GDP (~$55 trillion), the expected value of the lottery is




          around $45.




          This analysis also assumes that each dollar won has equal utility, which is a measure of what a dollar means to you personally. Utility of money tends to flatten out for large amounts - a $10 million, for example, is a life-changing amount of money, but the next $10 million won't have as big an impact on your life as the first $10 million. So, $20 million is not really "worth" twice as much as $10 million. The "infinite wager" solution to the St. Petersburg paradox assumes constant utility of money, even though that's not a realistic model of how people behave.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$








          • 3




            $begingroup$
            As a small addition to this (already good and complete) answer, I think it might be worth point out that for the paradox, you don't need the utility of money to be constant; you just need the utility of an unbounded amount of money to be unbounded. That is, no matter how much money you already have, there is always an amount of money that makes you 1% happier. Then simply replace each successive doubling of money with whatever number doubles the utility of the previous amount of money.
            $endgroup$
            – Mees de Vries
            Apr 22 at 21:39










          • $begingroup$
            For most people, they simply never reach the state where this understanding makes sense. However, if you have 100 million, an extra $10 million is basically not going to do anything close to improve your happiness by 10%. In fact, the first thought might be "Damn, how did I miss 10 mil? Do I need to fire my accountant(s) now?" or "Damn, how do I prevent getting taxed on this?"
            $endgroup$
            – Nelson
            yesterday














          16












          16








          16





          $begingroup$

          This gambling problem is the famous St. Petersburg paradox. It is a paradox because




          the wager has infinite expected value regardless of the amount paid to play. A rational agent should pay
          any amount of money to play this game, and over many rounds of the game, they can expect to make a profit.




          The one issue with this theoretical result is that it requires no upper limit on the possible winnings - if you make it through enough coin flips, you can win more money than the combined wealth of everyone on the planet. If we limit the lottery to a maximum payout of the world GDP (~$55 trillion), the expected value of the lottery is




          around $45.




          This analysis also assumes that each dollar won has equal utility, which is a measure of what a dollar means to you personally. Utility of money tends to flatten out for large amounts - a $10 million, for example, is a life-changing amount of money, but the next $10 million won't have as big an impact on your life as the first $10 million. So, $20 million is not really "worth" twice as much as $10 million. The "infinite wager" solution to the St. Petersburg paradox assumes constant utility of money, even though that's not a realistic model of how people behave.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          This gambling problem is the famous St. Petersburg paradox. It is a paradox because




          the wager has infinite expected value regardless of the amount paid to play. A rational agent should pay
          any amount of money to play this game, and over many rounds of the game, they can expect to make a profit.




          The one issue with this theoretical result is that it requires no upper limit on the possible winnings - if you make it through enough coin flips, you can win more money than the combined wealth of everyone on the planet. If we limit the lottery to a maximum payout of the world GDP (~$55 trillion), the expected value of the lottery is




          around $45.




          This analysis also assumes that each dollar won has equal utility, which is a measure of what a dollar means to you personally. Utility of money tends to flatten out for large amounts - a $10 million, for example, is a life-changing amount of money, but the next $10 million won't have as big an impact on your life as the first $10 million. So, $20 million is not really "worth" twice as much as $10 million. The "infinite wager" solution to the St. Petersburg paradox assumes constant utility of money, even though that's not a realistic model of how people behave.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited Apr 22 at 18:36

























          answered Apr 22 at 18:30









          Nuclear WangNuclear Wang

          1,471617




          1,471617







          • 3




            $begingroup$
            As a small addition to this (already good and complete) answer, I think it might be worth point out that for the paradox, you don't need the utility of money to be constant; you just need the utility of an unbounded amount of money to be unbounded. That is, no matter how much money you already have, there is always an amount of money that makes you 1% happier. Then simply replace each successive doubling of money with whatever number doubles the utility of the previous amount of money.
            $endgroup$
            – Mees de Vries
            Apr 22 at 21:39










          • $begingroup$
            For most people, they simply never reach the state where this understanding makes sense. However, if you have 100 million, an extra $10 million is basically not going to do anything close to improve your happiness by 10%. In fact, the first thought might be "Damn, how did I miss 10 mil? Do I need to fire my accountant(s) now?" or "Damn, how do I prevent getting taxed on this?"
            $endgroup$
            – Nelson
            yesterday













          • 3




            $begingroup$
            As a small addition to this (already good and complete) answer, I think it might be worth point out that for the paradox, you don't need the utility of money to be constant; you just need the utility of an unbounded amount of money to be unbounded. That is, no matter how much money you already have, there is always an amount of money that makes you 1% happier. Then simply replace each successive doubling of money with whatever number doubles the utility of the previous amount of money.
            $endgroup$
            – Mees de Vries
            Apr 22 at 21:39










          • $begingroup$
            For most people, they simply never reach the state where this understanding makes sense. However, if you have 100 million, an extra $10 million is basically not going to do anything close to improve your happiness by 10%. In fact, the first thought might be "Damn, how did I miss 10 mil? Do I need to fire my accountant(s) now?" or "Damn, how do I prevent getting taxed on this?"
            $endgroup$
            – Nelson
            yesterday








          3




          3




          $begingroup$
          As a small addition to this (already good and complete) answer, I think it might be worth point out that for the paradox, you don't need the utility of money to be constant; you just need the utility of an unbounded amount of money to be unbounded. That is, no matter how much money you already have, there is always an amount of money that makes you 1% happier. Then simply replace each successive doubling of money with whatever number doubles the utility of the previous amount of money.
          $endgroup$
          – Mees de Vries
          Apr 22 at 21:39




          $begingroup$
          As a small addition to this (already good and complete) answer, I think it might be worth point out that for the paradox, you don't need the utility of money to be constant; you just need the utility of an unbounded amount of money to be unbounded. That is, no matter how much money you already have, there is always an amount of money that makes you 1% happier. Then simply replace each successive doubling of money with whatever number doubles the utility of the previous amount of money.
          $endgroup$
          – Mees de Vries
          Apr 22 at 21:39












          $begingroup$
          For most people, they simply never reach the state where this understanding makes sense. However, if you have 100 million, an extra $10 million is basically not going to do anything close to improve your happiness by 10%. In fact, the first thought might be "Damn, how did I miss 10 mil? Do I need to fire my accountant(s) now?" or "Damn, how do I prevent getting taxed on this?"
          $endgroup$
          – Nelson
          yesterday





          $begingroup$
          For most people, they simply never reach the state where this understanding makes sense. However, if you have 100 million, an extra $10 million is basically not going to do anything close to improve your happiness by 10%. In fact, the first thought might be "Damn, how did I miss 10 mil? Do I need to fire my accountant(s) now?" or "Damn, how do I prevent getting taxed on this?"
          $endgroup$
          – Nelson
          yesterday












          11












          $begingroup$

          I would pay




          Zero, because I dont need to convince you anything. You are offering me to toss and have a fixed value to give me. Why would I pay anything?







          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          Moacir is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






          $endgroup$

















            11












            $begingroup$

            I would pay




            Zero, because I dont need to convince you anything. You are offering me to toss and have a fixed value to give me. Why would I pay anything?







            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            Moacir is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.






            $endgroup$















              11












              11








              11





              $begingroup$

              I would pay




              Zero, because I dont need to convince you anything. You are offering me to toss and have a fixed value to give me. Why would I pay anything?







              share|improve this answer








              New contributor




              Moacir is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.






              $endgroup$



              I would pay




              Zero, because I dont need to convince you anything. You are offering me to toss and have a fixed value to give me. Why would I pay anything?








              share|improve this answer








              New contributor




              Moacir is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.









              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer






              New contributor




              Moacir is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.









              answered 2 days ago









              MoacirMoacir

              2114




              2114




              New contributor




              Moacir is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.





              New contributor





              Moacir is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.






              Moacir is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.





















                  8












                  $begingroup$

                  There are several nuances to this question. First of all, it asks how much you are willing to pay, not what price is fair. Second, you have to understand, that even if a game is fair, that does not mean that It is reasonable to play it.

                  For example, if someone offers me a one in a million chance to win a million dollars for 1, I will take it. It seems reasonable. But if someone offered me a one in a million chance to win a billion dollars for 1000, I would not. What’s the difference? I am willing to lose a dollar for a small chance at success, but I am not willing to lose a thousand dollars for that same small chance, even if the reward is adjusted accordingly.

                  You have to factor in how much money you are willing to lose if the game does not go your way, especially if you only play once.




                  Since there is a 50% chance to lose your whole wager, the question becomes how much is the reward, but also how much are you willing to lose for it? If the reward was a million dollars, I would not wager 500,000 for a 50% chance to lose it, even if that is a “fair” game.

                  Realistically, I know the chance of getting a long streak of heads in a row is very low. Even though in 100 coin flips it’s not uncommon to have several streaks of 5 to 7 heads or tails in a row, playing the game only once means that the law of large numbers doesn’t apply.

                  For these reasons, I would not wager more than $1 for this game, because I don’t expect to see more than 3 heads in a row.







                  share|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$

















                    8












                    $begingroup$

                    There are several nuances to this question. First of all, it asks how much you are willing to pay, not what price is fair. Second, you have to understand, that even if a game is fair, that does not mean that It is reasonable to play it.

                    For example, if someone offers me a one in a million chance to win a million dollars for 1, I will take it. It seems reasonable. But if someone offered me a one in a million chance to win a billion dollars for 1000, I would not. What’s the difference? I am willing to lose a dollar for a small chance at success, but I am not willing to lose a thousand dollars for that same small chance, even if the reward is adjusted accordingly.

                    You have to factor in how much money you are willing to lose if the game does not go your way, especially if you only play once.




                    Since there is a 50% chance to lose your whole wager, the question becomes how much is the reward, but also how much are you willing to lose for it? If the reward was a million dollars, I would not wager 500,000 for a 50% chance to lose it, even if that is a “fair” game.

                    Realistically, I know the chance of getting a long streak of heads in a row is very low. Even though in 100 coin flips it’s not uncommon to have several streaks of 5 to 7 heads or tails in a row, playing the game only once means that the law of large numbers doesn’t apply.

                    For these reasons, I would not wager more than $1 for this game, because I don’t expect to see more than 3 heads in a row.







                    share|improve this answer











                    $endgroup$















                      8












                      8








                      8





                      $begingroup$

                      There are several nuances to this question. First of all, it asks how much you are willing to pay, not what price is fair. Second, you have to understand, that even if a game is fair, that does not mean that It is reasonable to play it.

                      For example, if someone offers me a one in a million chance to win a million dollars for 1, I will take it. It seems reasonable. But if someone offered me a one in a million chance to win a billion dollars for 1000, I would not. What’s the difference? I am willing to lose a dollar for a small chance at success, but I am not willing to lose a thousand dollars for that same small chance, even if the reward is adjusted accordingly.

                      You have to factor in how much money you are willing to lose if the game does not go your way, especially if you only play once.




                      Since there is a 50% chance to lose your whole wager, the question becomes how much is the reward, but also how much are you willing to lose for it? If the reward was a million dollars, I would not wager 500,000 for a 50% chance to lose it, even if that is a “fair” game.

                      Realistically, I know the chance of getting a long streak of heads in a row is very low. Even though in 100 coin flips it’s not uncommon to have several streaks of 5 to 7 heads or tails in a row, playing the game only once means that the law of large numbers doesn’t apply.

                      For these reasons, I would not wager more than $1 for this game, because I don’t expect to see more than 3 heads in a row.







                      share|improve this answer











                      $endgroup$



                      There are several nuances to this question. First of all, it asks how much you are willing to pay, not what price is fair. Second, you have to understand, that even if a game is fair, that does not mean that It is reasonable to play it.

                      For example, if someone offers me a one in a million chance to win a million dollars for 1, I will take it. It seems reasonable. But if someone offered me a one in a million chance to win a billion dollars for 1000, I would not. What’s the difference? I am willing to lose a dollar for a small chance at success, but I am not willing to lose a thousand dollars for that same small chance, even if the reward is adjusted accordingly.

                      You have to factor in how much money you are willing to lose if the game does not go your way, especially if you only play once.




                      Since there is a 50% chance to lose your whole wager, the question becomes how much is the reward, but also how much are you willing to lose for it? If the reward was a million dollars, I would not wager 500,000 for a 50% chance to lose it, even if that is a “fair” game.

                      Realistically, I know the chance of getting a long streak of heads in a row is very low. Even though in 100 coin flips it’s not uncommon to have several streaks of 5 to 7 heads or tails in a row, playing the game only once means that the law of large numbers doesn’t apply.

                      For these reasons, I would not wager more than $1 for this game, because I don’t expect to see more than 3 heads in a row.








                      share|improve this answer














                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer








                      edited Apr 22 at 23:24

























                      answered Apr 22 at 23:15









                      AmorydaiAmorydai

                      1,668215




                      1,668215





















                          8












                          $begingroup$

                          I would not pay anything. I would not play. I would encourage you to not play. Are you doing okay? I'm willing to help you out of you need help. I would offer you a hug.



                          You are my best friend, and you live right next to me. Any outcome of this game that would be monetarily meaningful to either of us would also most likely be highly damaging to our friendship. Having a very good friend who lives next door is worth far more to me than whatever money I might manage to extract from you over a game like this if I did win big, and if I did not, that too would be damaging. Better to instead pay attention to the person who is my best friend. Why would you make an offer like this that is so potentially self-destructive?






                          share|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$

















                            8












                            $begingroup$

                            I would not pay anything. I would not play. I would encourage you to not play. Are you doing okay? I'm willing to help you out of you need help. I would offer you a hug.



                            You are my best friend, and you live right next to me. Any outcome of this game that would be monetarily meaningful to either of us would also most likely be highly damaging to our friendship. Having a very good friend who lives next door is worth far more to me than whatever money I might manage to extract from you over a game like this if I did win big, and if I did not, that too would be damaging. Better to instead pay attention to the person who is my best friend. Why would you make an offer like this that is so potentially self-destructive?






                            share|improve this answer









                            $endgroup$















                              8












                              8








                              8





                              $begingroup$

                              I would not pay anything. I would not play. I would encourage you to not play. Are you doing okay? I'm willing to help you out of you need help. I would offer you a hug.



                              You are my best friend, and you live right next to me. Any outcome of this game that would be monetarily meaningful to either of us would also most likely be highly damaging to our friendship. Having a very good friend who lives next door is worth far more to me than whatever money I might manage to extract from you over a game like this if I did win big, and if I did not, that too would be damaging. Better to instead pay attention to the person who is my best friend. Why would you make an offer like this that is so potentially self-destructive?






                              share|improve this answer









                              $endgroup$



                              I would not pay anything. I would not play. I would encourage you to not play. Are you doing okay? I'm willing to help you out of you need help. I would offer you a hug.



                              You are my best friend, and you live right next to me. Any outcome of this game that would be monetarily meaningful to either of us would also most likely be highly damaging to our friendship. Having a very good friend who lives next door is worth far more to me than whatever money I might manage to extract from you over a game like this if I did win big, and if I did not, that too would be damaging. Better to instead pay attention to the person who is my best friend. Why would you make an offer like this that is so potentially self-destructive?







                              share|improve this answer












                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer










                              answered 2 days ago









                              Ben BardenBen Barden

                              40114




                              40114





















                                  6












                                  $begingroup$

                                  $16, Consider what else we know:



                                  1. You are my best friend

                                  2. The currency you're using is US dollars

                                  3. You own a home (namely the one next to mine)

                                  What do these things imply?



                                  1. Because I'm your best friend, I won't want you to have to move away by you having to sell your house in order to pay me.

                                  2. We're in the USA

                                  3. The median price of a home in the USA is around $200,000

                                  Conclusions: I'm probably not going to hold you to your agreement if you owe me more than half of your home's worth, because we're friends. So $2^16 is $65,536 is where we'll probably stop if I keep throwing heads. Therefore the expectation value is really 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1=16 so $16, $17 if I'm a jerk who is willing to take $131,072 from his best friend.






                                  share|improve this answer










                                  New contributor




                                  Mathaddict is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                  Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                  $endgroup$












                                  • $begingroup$
                                    This is the only answer I see that actually takes into account both the house and the friendship. I think winning a third of your best friend's net worth is a bit much though :)
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – JollyJoker
                                    yesterday






                                  • 1




                                    $begingroup$
                                    @JollyJoker Please note that I'm not assuming that the value of his home is his net worth. We don't know anything else, and depending on the affluence of the neighborhood, it could be much less than a third of his home's value. I'm trying to put an upper bound on the value.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Mathaddict
                                    yesterday















                                  6












                                  $begingroup$

                                  $16, Consider what else we know:



                                  1. You are my best friend

                                  2. The currency you're using is US dollars

                                  3. You own a home (namely the one next to mine)

                                  What do these things imply?



                                  1. Because I'm your best friend, I won't want you to have to move away by you having to sell your house in order to pay me.

                                  2. We're in the USA

                                  3. The median price of a home in the USA is around $200,000

                                  Conclusions: I'm probably not going to hold you to your agreement if you owe me more than half of your home's worth, because we're friends. So $2^16 is $65,536 is where we'll probably stop if I keep throwing heads. Therefore the expectation value is really 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1=16 so $16, $17 if I'm a jerk who is willing to take $131,072 from his best friend.






                                  share|improve this answer










                                  New contributor




                                  Mathaddict is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                  Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                  $endgroup$












                                  • $begingroup$
                                    This is the only answer I see that actually takes into account both the house and the friendship. I think winning a third of your best friend's net worth is a bit much though :)
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – JollyJoker
                                    yesterday






                                  • 1




                                    $begingroup$
                                    @JollyJoker Please note that I'm not assuming that the value of his home is his net worth. We don't know anything else, and depending on the affluence of the neighborhood, it could be much less than a third of his home's value. I'm trying to put an upper bound on the value.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Mathaddict
                                    yesterday













                                  6












                                  6








                                  6





                                  $begingroup$

                                  $16, Consider what else we know:



                                  1. You are my best friend

                                  2. The currency you're using is US dollars

                                  3. You own a home (namely the one next to mine)

                                  What do these things imply?



                                  1. Because I'm your best friend, I won't want you to have to move away by you having to sell your house in order to pay me.

                                  2. We're in the USA

                                  3. The median price of a home in the USA is around $200,000

                                  Conclusions: I'm probably not going to hold you to your agreement if you owe me more than half of your home's worth, because we're friends. So $2^16 is $65,536 is where we'll probably stop if I keep throwing heads. Therefore the expectation value is really 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1=16 so $16, $17 if I'm a jerk who is willing to take $131,072 from his best friend.






                                  share|improve this answer










                                  New contributor




                                  Mathaddict is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                  Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                  $endgroup$



                                  $16, Consider what else we know:



                                  1. You are my best friend

                                  2. The currency you're using is US dollars

                                  3. You own a home (namely the one next to mine)

                                  What do these things imply?



                                  1. Because I'm your best friend, I won't want you to have to move away by you having to sell your house in order to pay me.

                                  2. We're in the USA

                                  3. The median price of a home in the USA is around $200,000

                                  Conclusions: I'm probably not going to hold you to your agreement if you owe me more than half of your home's worth, because we're friends. So $2^16 is $65,536 is where we'll probably stop if I keep throwing heads. Therefore the expectation value is really 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1=16 so $16, $17 if I'm a jerk who is willing to take $131,072 from his best friend.







                                  share|improve this answer










                                  New contributor




                                  Mathaddict is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                  Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                  share|improve this answer



                                  share|improve this answer








                                  edited 2 days ago









                                  Rubio

                                  30.9k668189




                                  30.9k668189






                                  New contributor




                                  Mathaddict is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                  Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                  answered 2 days ago









                                  MathaddictMathaddict

                                  1912




                                  1912




                                  New contributor




                                  Mathaddict is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                  Check out our Code of Conduct.





                                  New contributor





                                  Mathaddict is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                  Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                  Mathaddict is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                  Check out our Code of Conduct.











                                  • $begingroup$
                                    This is the only answer I see that actually takes into account both the house and the friendship. I think winning a third of your best friend's net worth is a bit much though :)
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – JollyJoker
                                    yesterday






                                  • 1




                                    $begingroup$
                                    @JollyJoker Please note that I'm not assuming that the value of his home is his net worth. We don't know anything else, and depending on the affluence of the neighborhood, it could be much less than a third of his home's value. I'm trying to put an upper bound on the value.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Mathaddict
                                    yesterday
















                                  • $begingroup$
                                    This is the only answer I see that actually takes into account both the house and the friendship. I think winning a third of your best friend's net worth is a bit much though :)
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – JollyJoker
                                    yesterday






                                  • 1




                                    $begingroup$
                                    @JollyJoker Please note that I'm not assuming that the value of his home is his net worth. We don't know anything else, and depending on the affluence of the neighborhood, it could be much less than a third of his home's value. I'm trying to put an upper bound on the value.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Mathaddict
                                    yesterday















                                  $begingroup$
                                  This is the only answer I see that actually takes into account both the house and the friendship. I think winning a third of your best friend's net worth is a bit much though :)
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – JollyJoker
                                  yesterday




                                  $begingroup$
                                  This is the only answer I see that actually takes into account both the house and the friendship. I think winning a third of your best friend's net worth is a bit much though :)
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – JollyJoker
                                  yesterday




                                  1




                                  1




                                  $begingroup$
                                  @JollyJoker Please note that I'm not assuming that the value of his home is his net worth. We don't know anything else, and depending on the affluence of the neighborhood, it could be much less than a third of his home's value. I'm trying to put an upper bound on the value.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – Mathaddict
                                  yesterday




                                  $begingroup$
                                  @JollyJoker Please note that I'm not assuming that the value of his home is his net worth. We don't know anything else, and depending on the affluence of the neighborhood, it could be much less than a third of his home's value. I'm trying to put an upper bound on the value.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – Mathaddict
                                  yesterday











                                  1












                                  $begingroup$

                                  I would pay you




                                  All my money, and then be sad when I lost it all on the first flip




                                  because




                                  Let the amount I pay you be represented as C. After paying C, you have a 1/2 chance of winning 0, a 1/4 chance of winning 1, a 1/8 chance of winning 2, a 1/16 chance of winning 4 etc. Your expected payout would be $$-C + sum_i=0^infty frac12^i+22^i = -C + sum_i=0^infty frac14 = -C + infty$$ Theoretically if you played forever and ever, you would profit no matter how much you paid per game. Realistically, you would probably not profit no matter how much you paid.







                                  share|improve this answer









                                  $endgroup$












                                  • $begingroup$
                                    Even at only investing 1000 dollars (everything you have), you realize you only profit from this in 0.09% of the cases. The gain to you, even if you would win, is not going to be worth losing everything. You might want to risk 1000 dollars when you have a billion, but putting everything on the line for a theoretical expected value of infinity is horrible. I suggest you investigate this further.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – PascalVKooten
                                    2 days ago











                                  • $begingroup$
                                    @PascalVKooten The Wikipedia page on the St. Petersburg paradox has an interesting discussion about this which takes into account the utility of money. A rich person can safely wager more than a poor one, because they won't become bankrupt if they lose. For very poor individuals, though, it's actually the correct move to go into debt to play this game!
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Nuclear Wang
                                    2 days ago










                                  • $begingroup$
                                    @NuclearWang Yes, I will give you that, it would hold if you have like 1 dollar or something. But already at 1000$ I would argue that this does not hold. You'd need a lot of consecutive heads for this to be worth it. A one-shot 0.09% chance of getting even (or better) is not going to be worth the money in this situation.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – PascalVKooten
                                    2 days ago
















                                  1












                                  $begingroup$

                                  I would pay you




                                  All my money, and then be sad when I lost it all on the first flip




                                  because




                                  Let the amount I pay you be represented as C. After paying C, you have a 1/2 chance of winning 0, a 1/4 chance of winning 1, a 1/8 chance of winning 2, a 1/16 chance of winning 4 etc. Your expected payout would be $$-C + sum_i=0^infty frac12^i+22^i = -C + sum_i=0^infty frac14 = -C + infty$$ Theoretically if you played forever and ever, you would profit no matter how much you paid per game. Realistically, you would probably not profit no matter how much you paid.







                                  share|improve this answer









                                  $endgroup$












                                  • $begingroup$
                                    Even at only investing 1000 dollars (everything you have), you realize you only profit from this in 0.09% of the cases. The gain to you, even if you would win, is not going to be worth losing everything. You might want to risk 1000 dollars when you have a billion, but putting everything on the line for a theoretical expected value of infinity is horrible. I suggest you investigate this further.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – PascalVKooten
                                    2 days ago











                                  • $begingroup$
                                    @PascalVKooten The Wikipedia page on the St. Petersburg paradox has an interesting discussion about this which takes into account the utility of money. A rich person can safely wager more than a poor one, because they won't become bankrupt if they lose. For very poor individuals, though, it's actually the correct move to go into debt to play this game!
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Nuclear Wang
                                    2 days ago










                                  • $begingroup$
                                    @NuclearWang Yes, I will give you that, it would hold if you have like 1 dollar or something. But already at 1000$ I would argue that this does not hold. You'd need a lot of consecutive heads for this to be worth it. A one-shot 0.09% chance of getting even (or better) is not going to be worth the money in this situation.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – PascalVKooten
                                    2 days ago














                                  1












                                  1








                                  1





                                  $begingroup$

                                  I would pay you




                                  All my money, and then be sad when I lost it all on the first flip




                                  because




                                  Let the amount I pay you be represented as C. After paying C, you have a 1/2 chance of winning 0, a 1/4 chance of winning 1, a 1/8 chance of winning 2, a 1/16 chance of winning 4 etc. Your expected payout would be $$-C + sum_i=0^infty frac12^i+22^i = -C + sum_i=0^infty frac14 = -C + infty$$ Theoretically if you played forever and ever, you would profit no matter how much you paid per game. Realistically, you would probably not profit no matter how much you paid.







                                  share|improve this answer









                                  $endgroup$



                                  I would pay you




                                  All my money, and then be sad when I lost it all on the first flip




                                  because




                                  Let the amount I pay you be represented as C. After paying C, you have a 1/2 chance of winning 0, a 1/4 chance of winning 1, a 1/8 chance of winning 2, a 1/16 chance of winning 4 etc. Your expected payout would be $$-C + sum_i=0^infty frac12^i+22^i = -C + sum_i=0^infty frac14 = -C + infty$$ Theoretically if you played forever and ever, you would profit no matter how much you paid per game. Realistically, you would probably not profit no matter how much you paid.








                                  share|improve this answer












                                  share|improve this answer



                                  share|improve this answer










                                  answered Apr 22 at 17:54









                                  PunPun1000PunPun1000

                                  38415




                                  38415











                                  • $begingroup$
                                    Even at only investing 1000 dollars (everything you have), you realize you only profit from this in 0.09% of the cases. The gain to you, even if you would win, is not going to be worth losing everything. You might want to risk 1000 dollars when you have a billion, but putting everything on the line for a theoretical expected value of infinity is horrible. I suggest you investigate this further.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – PascalVKooten
                                    2 days ago











                                  • $begingroup$
                                    @PascalVKooten The Wikipedia page on the St. Petersburg paradox has an interesting discussion about this which takes into account the utility of money. A rich person can safely wager more than a poor one, because they won't become bankrupt if they lose. For very poor individuals, though, it's actually the correct move to go into debt to play this game!
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Nuclear Wang
                                    2 days ago










                                  • $begingroup$
                                    @NuclearWang Yes, I will give you that, it would hold if you have like 1 dollar or something. But already at 1000$ I would argue that this does not hold. You'd need a lot of consecutive heads for this to be worth it. A one-shot 0.09% chance of getting even (or better) is not going to be worth the money in this situation.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – PascalVKooten
                                    2 days ago

















                                  • $begingroup$
                                    Even at only investing 1000 dollars (everything you have), you realize you only profit from this in 0.09% of the cases. The gain to you, even if you would win, is not going to be worth losing everything. You might want to risk 1000 dollars when you have a billion, but putting everything on the line for a theoretical expected value of infinity is horrible. I suggest you investigate this further.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – PascalVKooten
                                    2 days ago











                                  • $begingroup$
                                    @PascalVKooten The Wikipedia page on the St. Petersburg paradox has an interesting discussion about this which takes into account the utility of money. A rich person can safely wager more than a poor one, because they won't become bankrupt if they lose. For very poor individuals, though, it's actually the correct move to go into debt to play this game!
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Nuclear Wang
                                    2 days ago










                                  • $begingroup$
                                    @NuclearWang Yes, I will give you that, it would hold if you have like 1 dollar or something. But already at 1000$ I would argue that this does not hold. You'd need a lot of consecutive heads for this to be worth it. A one-shot 0.09% chance of getting even (or better) is not going to be worth the money in this situation.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – PascalVKooten
                                    2 days ago
















                                  $begingroup$
                                  Even at only investing 1000 dollars (everything you have), you realize you only profit from this in 0.09% of the cases. The gain to you, even if you would win, is not going to be worth losing everything. You might want to risk 1000 dollars when you have a billion, but putting everything on the line for a theoretical expected value of infinity is horrible. I suggest you investigate this further.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – PascalVKooten
                                  2 days ago





                                  $begingroup$
                                  Even at only investing 1000 dollars (everything you have), you realize you only profit from this in 0.09% of the cases. The gain to you, even if you would win, is not going to be worth losing everything. You might want to risk 1000 dollars when you have a billion, but putting everything on the line for a theoretical expected value of infinity is horrible. I suggest you investigate this further.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – PascalVKooten
                                  2 days ago













                                  $begingroup$
                                  @PascalVKooten The Wikipedia page on the St. Petersburg paradox has an interesting discussion about this which takes into account the utility of money. A rich person can safely wager more than a poor one, because they won't become bankrupt if they lose. For very poor individuals, though, it's actually the correct move to go into debt to play this game!
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – Nuclear Wang
                                  2 days ago




                                  $begingroup$
                                  @PascalVKooten The Wikipedia page on the St. Petersburg paradox has an interesting discussion about this which takes into account the utility of money. A rich person can safely wager more than a poor one, because they won't become bankrupt if they lose. For very poor individuals, though, it's actually the correct move to go into debt to play this game!
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – Nuclear Wang
                                  2 days ago












                                  $begingroup$
                                  @NuclearWang Yes, I will give you that, it would hold if you have like 1 dollar or something. But already at 1000$ I would argue that this does not hold. You'd need a lot of consecutive heads for this to be worth it. A one-shot 0.09% chance of getting even (or better) is not going to be worth the money in this situation.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – PascalVKooten
                                  2 days ago





                                  $begingroup$
                                  @NuclearWang Yes, I will give you that, it would hold if you have like 1 dollar or something. But already at 1000$ I would argue that this does not hold. You'd need a lot of consecutive heads for this to be worth it. A one-shot 0.09% chance of getting even (or better) is not going to be worth the money in this situation.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – PascalVKooten
                                  2 days ago












                                  1












                                  $begingroup$

                                  What I will pay:




                                  $14.29




                                  updated after fixing a bug in my code, old wrong value was




                                  $14.54 Gosh that's not much of a difference




                                  Because:




                                  That is one penny less than I expect to get paid out on average per game, so that means that if I offer that price to the neighbor and the neighbor accepts, then I have a better than 50% chance of getting more money back, even if only by a penny.




                                  Why do I think that?




                                  Well, I am not 100% up on my statistics, so I wrote a program to simulate playing the game and then ran that simulation about 200,000,000,000 times. Averaging the payout each time. My code could totally be off as I coded it naively in JS(I don't know R or python for NumPy and didn't have time to learn enough to make this simulation). In fact I realize that just my heads or tails code, if not exactly 50%, could mess up my calculations. But that's my best shot.







                                  share|improve this answer











                                  $endgroup$












                                  • $begingroup$
                                    Here's my try of this algorithm in javascript : jsfiddle.net/15kwo2gf Average result found is around 5 or 6$
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – F3L1X79
                                    12 hours ago











                                  • $begingroup$
                                    Thanks, I will put my code into a fiddle and post the link when I can. Among other things, I am using a different heads or tails but not very different.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Elliot_The_Curious
                                    11 hours ago










                                  • $begingroup$
                                    If needed, I updated the code a bit: jsfiddle.net/s2b951nr/1 Obviously, the results tend to go higher the higher you input the number of tries but I limited it to 20000000 tries for the safety of my browser. It should be fun to use the existing population on earth (7.7 billion) for the tests.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – F3L1X79
                                    10 hours ago











                                  • $begingroup$
                                    Here is the fiddle: link full disclosure: It includes a mistake I found thanks to having to look over my code again to see where our code is different(Thanks!). I left the mistake in, but I will run another simulation without the mistake and see what difference it makes.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Elliot_The_Curious
                                    10 hours ago















                                  1












                                  $begingroup$

                                  What I will pay:




                                  $14.29




                                  updated after fixing a bug in my code, old wrong value was




                                  $14.54 Gosh that's not much of a difference




                                  Because:




                                  That is one penny less than I expect to get paid out on average per game, so that means that if I offer that price to the neighbor and the neighbor accepts, then I have a better than 50% chance of getting more money back, even if only by a penny.




                                  Why do I think that?




                                  Well, I am not 100% up on my statistics, so I wrote a program to simulate playing the game and then ran that simulation about 200,000,000,000 times. Averaging the payout each time. My code could totally be off as I coded it naively in JS(I don't know R or python for NumPy and didn't have time to learn enough to make this simulation). In fact I realize that just my heads or tails code, if not exactly 50%, could mess up my calculations. But that's my best shot.







                                  share|improve this answer











                                  $endgroup$












                                  • $begingroup$
                                    Here's my try of this algorithm in javascript : jsfiddle.net/15kwo2gf Average result found is around 5 or 6$
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – F3L1X79
                                    12 hours ago











                                  • $begingroup$
                                    Thanks, I will put my code into a fiddle and post the link when I can. Among other things, I am using a different heads or tails but not very different.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Elliot_The_Curious
                                    11 hours ago










                                  • $begingroup$
                                    If needed, I updated the code a bit: jsfiddle.net/s2b951nr/1 Obviously, the results tend to go higher the higher you input the number of tries but I limited it to 20000000 tries for the safety of my browser. It should be fun to use the existing population on earth (7.7 billion) for the tests.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – F3L1X79
                                    10 hours ago











                                  • $begingroup$
                                    Here is the fiddle: link full disclosure: It includes a mistake I found thanks to having to look over my code again to see where our code is different(Thanks!). I left the mistake in, but I will run another simulation without the mistake and see what difference it makes.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Elliot_The_Curious
                                    10 hours ago













                                  1












                                  1








                                  1





                                  $begingroup$

                                  What I will pay:




                                  $14.29




                                  updated after fixing a bug in my code, old wrong value was




                                  $14.54 Gosh that's not much of a difference




                                  Because:




                                  That is one penny less than I expect to get paid out on average per game, so that means that if I offer that price to the neighbor and the neighbor accepts, then I have a better than 50% chance of getting more money back, even if only by a penny.




                                  Why do I think that?




                                  Well, I am not 100% up on my statistics, so I wrote a program to simulate playing the game and then ran that simulation about 200,000,000,000 times. Averaging the payout each time. My code could totally be off as I coded it naively in JS(I don't know R or python for NumPy and didn't have time to learn enough to make this simulation). In fact I realize that just my heads or tails code, if not exactly 50%, could mess up my calculations. But that's my best shot.







                                  share|improve this answer











                                  $endgroup$



                                  What I will pay:




                                  $14.29




                                  updated after fixing a bug in my code, old wrong value was




                                  $14.54 Gosh that's not much of a difference




                                  Because:




                                  That is one penny less than I expect to get paid out on average per game, so that means that if I offer that price to the neighbor and the neighbor accepts, then I have a better than 50% chance of getting more money back, even if only by a penny.




                                  Why do I think that?




                                  Well, I am not 100% up on my statistics, so I wrote a program to simulate playing the game and then ran that simulation about 200,000,000,000 times. Averaging the payout each time. My code could totally be off as I coded it naively in JS(I don't know R or python for NumPy and didn't have time to learn enough to make this simulation). In fact I realize that just my heads or tails code, if not exactly 50%, could mess up my calculations. But that's my best shot.








                                  share|improve this answer














                                  share|improve this answer



                                  share|improve this answer








                                  edited 6 hours ago

























                                  answered 13 hours ago









                                  Elliot_The_CuriousElliot_The_Curious

                                  713




                                  713











                                  • $begingroup$
                                    Here's my try of this algorithm in javascript : jsfiddle.net/15kwo2gf Average result found is around 5 or 6$
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – F3L1X79
                                    12 hours ago











                                  • $begingroup$
                                    Thanks, I will put my code into a fiddle and post the link when I can. Among other things, I am using a different heads or tails but not very different.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Elliot_The_Curious
                                    11 hours ago










                                  • $begingroup$
                                    If needed, I updated the code a bit: jsfiddle.net/s2b951nr/1 Obviously, the results tend to go higher the higher you input the number of tries but I limited it to 20000000 tries for the safety of my browser. It should be fun to use the existing population on earth (7.7 billion) for the tests.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – F3L1X79
                                    10 hours ago











                                  • $begingroup$
                                    Here is the fiddle: link full disclosure: It includes a mistake I found thanks to having to look over my code again to see where our code is different(Thanks!). I left the mistake in, but I will run another simulation without the mistake and see what difference it makes.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Elliot_The_Curious
                                    10 hours ago
















                                  • $begingroup$
                                    Here's my try of this algorithm in javascript : jsfiddle.net/15kwo2gf Average result found is around 5 or 6$
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – F3L1X79
                                    12 hours ago











                                  • $begingroup$
                                    Thanks, I will put my code into a fiddle and post the link when I can. Among other things, I am using a different heads or tails but not very different.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Elliot_The_Curious
                                    11 hours ago










                                  • $begingroup$
                                    If needed, I updated the code a bit: jsfiddle.net/s2b951nr/1 Obviously, the results tend to go higher the higher you input the number of tries but I limited it to 20000000 tries for the safety of my browser. It should be fun to use the existing population on earth (7.7 billion) for the tests.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – F3L1X79
                                    10 hours ago











                                  • $begingroup$
                                    Here is the fiddle: link full disclosure: It includes a mistake I found thanks to having to look over my code again to see where our code is different(Thanks!). I left the mistake in, but I will run another simulation without the mistake and see what difference it makes.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Elliot_The_Curious
                                    10 hours ago















                                  $begingroup$
                                  Here's my try of this algorithm in javascript : jsfiddle.net/15kwo2gf Average result found is around 5 or 6$
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – F3L1X79
                                  12 hours ago





                                  $begingroup$
                                  Here's my try of this algorithm in javascript : jsfiddle.net/15kwo2gf Average result found is around 5 or 6$
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – F3L1X79
                                  12 hours ago













                                  $begingroup$
                                  Thanks, I will put my code into a fiddle and post the link when I can. Among other things, I am using a different heads or tails but not very different.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – Elliot_The_Curious
                                  11 hours ago




                                  $begingroup$
                                  Thanks, I will put my code into a fiddle and post the link when I can. Among other things, I am using a different heads or tails but not very different.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – Elliot_The_Curious
                                  11 hours ago












                                  $begingroup$
                                  If needed, I updated the code a bit: jsfiddle.net/s2b951nr/1 Obviously, the results tend to go higher the higher you input the number of tries but I limited it to 20000000 tries for the safety of my browser. It should be fun to use the existing population on earth (7.7 billion) for the tests.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – F3L1X79
                                  10 hours ago





                                  $begingroup$
                                  If needed, I updated the code a bit: jsfiddle.net/s2b951nr/1 Obviously, the results tend to go higher the higher you input the number of tries but I limited it to 20000000 tries for the safety of my browser. It should be fun to use the existing population on earth (7.7 billion) for the tests.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – F3L1X79
                                  10 hours ago













                                  $begingroup$
                                  Here is the fiddle: link full disclosure: It includes a mistake I found thanks to having to look over my code again to see where our code is different(Thanks!). I left the mistake in, but I will run another simulation without the mistake and see what difference it makes.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – Elliot_The_Curious
                                  10 hours ago




                                  $begingroup$
                                  Here is the fiddle: link full disclosure: It includes a mistake I found thanks to having to look over my code again to see where our code is different(Thanks!). I left the mistake in, but I will run another simulation without the mistake and see what difference it makes.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – Elliot_The_Curious
                                  10 hours ago











                                  0












                                  $begingroup$

                                  I will pay you




                                  One dollar




                                  to play this game, because




                                  The amount you pay me has no bearing on what I pay you.

                                  If there was a single throw there would be 50-50 chance of getting my dollar back.

                                  But the game can go on, so there is better than 50-50 of getting my dollar back.

                                  Your bankroll is the limit — your house against my $1.







                                  share|improve this answer









                                  $endgroup$








                                  • 5




                                    $begingroup$
                                    Why not pay one penny instead of a whole dollar? Alternatively, if the game was offered for $1.01, you would reject the offer?
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Nuclear Wang
                                    Apr 22 at 19:01






                                  • 1




                                    $begingroup$
                                    @NuclearWang please don't reveal the hidden answer. In answer to your question, because in the land of this puzzle I don't know if a penny exists. But I do know that the amount I stated exists.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Weather Vane
                                    Apr 22 at 19:03











                                  • $begingroup$
                                    Your answer to @NuclearWang ignores his/her second question. Replace 1.01 by 2 if you like it better, the point of the question is the same.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Arnaud Mortier
                                    Apr 22 at 19:27






                                  • 1




                                    $begingroup$
                                    "Note, this is not a loophole question".
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – SpqrTiang
                                    Apr 22 at 20:57






                                  • 1




                                    $begingroup$
                                    You're taking "How much will I pay" too literal.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – PascalVKooten
                                    2 days ago















                                  0












                                  $begingroup$

                                  I will pay you




                                  One dollar




                                  to play this game, because




                                  The amount you pay me has no bearing on what I pay you.

                                  If there was a single throw there would be 50-50 chance of getting my dollar back.

                                  But the game can go on, so there is better than 50-50 of getting my dollar back.

                                  Your bankroll is the limit — your house against my $1.







                                  share|improve this answer









                                  $endgroup$








                                  • 5




                                    $begingroup$
                                    Why not pay one penny instead of a whole dollar? Alternatively, if the game was offered for $1.01, you would reject the offer?
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Nuclear Wang
                                    Apr 22 at 19:01






                                  • 1




                                    $begingroup$
                                    @NuclearWang please don't reveal the hidden answer. In answer to your question, because in the land of this puzzle I don't know if a penny exists. But I do know that the amount I stated exists.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Weather Vane
                                    Apr 22 at 19:03











                                  • $begingroup$
                                    Your answer to @NuclearWang ignores his/her second question. Replace 1.01 by 2 if you like it better, the point of the question is the same.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Arnaud Mortier
                                    Apr 22 at 19:27






                                  • 1




                                    $begingroup$
                                    "Note, this is not a loophole question".
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – SpqrTiang
                                    Apr 22 at 20:57






                                  • 1




                                    $begingroup$
                                    You're taking "How much will I pay" too literal.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – PascalVKooten
                                    2 days ago













                                  0












                                  0








                                  0





                                  $begingroup$

                                  I will pay you




                                  One dollar




                                  to play this game, because




                                  The amount you pay me has no bearing on what I pay you.

                                  If there was a single throw there would be 50-50 chance of getting my dollar back.

                                  But the game can go on, so there is better than 50-50 of getting my dollar back.

                                  Your bankroll is the limit — your house against my $1.







                                  share|improve this answer









                                  $endgroup$



                                  I will pay you




                                  One dollar




                                  to play this game, because




                                  The amount you pay me has no bearing on what I pay you.

                                  If there was a single throw there would be 50-50 chance of getting my dollar back.

                                  But the game can go on, so there is better than 50-50 of getting my dollar back.

                                  Your bankroll is the limit — your house against my $1.








                                  share|improve this answer












                                  share|improve this answer



                                  share|improve this answer










                                  answered Apr 22 at 18:16









                                  Weather VaneWeather Vane

                                  2,708114




                                  2,708114







                                  • 5




                                    $begingroup$
                                    Why not pay one penny instead of a whole dollar? Alternatively, if the game was offered for $1.01, you would reject the offer?
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Nuclear Wang
                                    Apr 22 at 19:01






                                  • 1




                                    $begingroup$
                                    @NuclearWang please don't reveal the hidden answer. In answer to your question, because in the land of this puzzle I don't know if a penny exists. But I do know that the amount I stated exists.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Weather Vane
                                    Apr 22 at 19:03











                                  • $begingroup$
                                    Your answer to @NuclearWang ignores his/her second question. Replace 1.01 by 2 if you like it better, the point of the question is the same.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Arnaud Mortier
                                    Apr 22 at 19:27






                                  • 1




                                    $begingroup$
                                    "Note, this is not a loophole question".
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – SpqrTiang
                                    Apr 22 at 20:57






                                  • 1




                                    $begingroup$
                                    You're taking "How much will I pay" too literal.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – PascalVKooten
                                    2 days ago












                                  • 5




                                    $begingroup$
                                    Why not pay one penny instead of a whole dollar? Alternatively, if the game was offered for $1.01, you would reject the offer?
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Nuclear Wang
                                    Apr 22 at 19:01






                                  • 1




                                    $begingroup$
                                    @NuclearWang please don't reveal the hidden answer. In answer to your question, because in the land of this puzzle I don't know if a penny exists. But I do know that the amount I stated exists.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Weather Vane
                                    Apr 22 at 19:03











                                  • $begingroup$
                                    Your answer to @NuclearWang ignores his/her second question. Replace 1.01 by 2 if you like it better, the point of the question is the same.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – Arnaud Mortier
                                    Apr 22 at 19:27






                                  • 1




                                    $begingroup$
                                    "Note, this is not a loophole question".
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – SpqrTiang
                                    Apr 22 at 20:57






                                  • 1




                                    $begingroup$
                                    You're taking "How much will I pay" too literal.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – PascalVKooten
                                    2 days ago







                                  5




                                  5




                                  $begingroup$
                                  Why not pay one penny instead of a whole dollar? Alternatively, if the game was offered for $1.01, you would reject the offer?
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – Nuclear Wang
                                  Apr 22 at 19:01




                                  $begingroup$
                                  Why not pay one penny instead of a whole dollar? Alternatively, if the game was offered for $1.01, you would reject the offer?
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – Nuclear Wang
                                  Apr 22 at 19:01




                                  1




                                  1




                                  $begingroup$
                                  @NuclearWang please don't reveal the hidden answer. In answer to your question, because in the land of this puzzle I don't know if a penny exists. But I do know that the amount I stated exists.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – Weather Vane
                                  Apr 22 at 19:03





                                  $begingroup$
                                  @NuclearWang please don't reveal the hidden answer. In answer to your question, because in the land of this puzzle I don't know if a penny exists. But I do know that the amount I stated exists.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – Weather Vane
                                  Apr 22 at 19:03













                                  $begingroup$
                                  Your answer to @NuclearWang ignores his/her second question. Replace 1.01 by 2 if you like it better, the point of the question is the same.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – Arnaud Mortier
                                  Apr 22 at 19:27




                                  $begingroup$
                                  Your answer to @NuclearWang ignores his/her second question. Replace 1.01 by 2 if you like it better, the point of the question is the same.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – Arnaud Mortier
                                  Apr 22 at 19:27




                                  1




                                  1




                                  $begingroup$
                                  "Note, this is not a loophole question".
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – SpqrTiang
                                  Apr 22 at 20:57




                                  $begingroup$
                                  "Note, this is not a loophole question".
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – SpqrTiang
                                  Apr 22 at 20:57




                                  1




                                  1




                                  $begingroup$
                                  You're taking "How much will I pay" too literal.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – PascalVKooten
                                  2 days ago




                                  $begingroup$
                                  You're taking "How much will I pay" too literal.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – PascalVKooten
                                  2 days ago











                                  0












                                  $begingroup$

                                  Maybe I'm making a mistake in this reasoning, but I believe that the logical answer is:




                                  I would pay 1 $




                                  Explanation




                                  Let $n$ be number of throws, following a risk-adjusted cost approach, the probability corrected money $M$ you win from playing is equal to the average of the prize (2 to the power of n consecutive throws) multiplied by the probability of getting that prize (n consecutive throws):

                                  $ M = (2^n - 1) times (1/2)^n Leftrightarrow $

                                  $ M = frac2^n - 12^n$

                                  $M_n rightarrow infty = 1$, and therefore the average money earned by playing this game will tend to 1 $ (remember that this game has not cumulative earnings, in opposition to the St. Petersburg paradox)

                                  Because I am playing with my best friend, I don't want him to lose money (but also not me) and, therefore, I will pay him the average prize that I will win so that the net loss/earnings between us is zero.







                                  share|improve this answer











                                  $endgroup$












                                  • $begingroup$
                                    Your equation doesn't seem to match the game description. According to your math, at n=1, M=0.5. According to the game description, at n=1, M=1.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – glibdud
                                    yesterday










                                  • $begingroup$
                                    @glibdud It does, but maybe I did not explain myself correctly. From a "risk analysis" point of view, I will have a "balanced" earning of 0.5 for 1 throw. For 2 throws, my "balanced earnings" will be 0.75, and so on. It's like saying that if I play once, my average earning will be 50 cent. I will edit my answer to try to make myself more clear.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – cinico
                                    yesterday
















                                  0












                                  $begingroup$

                                  Maybe I'm making a mistake in this reasoning, but I believe that the logical answer is:




                                  I would pay 1 $




                                  Explanation




                                  Let $n$ be number of throws, following a risk-adjusted cost approach, the probability corrected money $M$ you win from playing is equal to the average of the prize (2 to the power of n consecutive throws) multiplied by the probability of getting that prize (n consecutive throws):

                                  $ M = (2^n - 1) times (1/2)^n Leftrightarrow $

                                  $ M = frac2^n - 12^n$

                                  $M_n rightarrow infty = 1$, and therefore the average money earned by playing this game will tend to 1 $ (remember that this game has not cumulative earnings, in opposition to the St. Petersburg paradox)

                                  Because I am playing with my best friend, I don't want him to lose money (but also not me) and, therefore, I will pay him the average prize that I will win so that the net loss/earnings between us is zero.







                                  share|improve this answer











                                  $endgroup$












                                  • $begingroup$
                                    Your equation doesn't seem to match the game description. According to your math, at n=1, M=0.5. According to the game description, at n=1, M=1.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – glibdud
                                    yesterday










                                  • $begingroup$
                                    @glibdud It does, but maybe I did not explain myself correctly. From a "risk analysis" point of view, I will have a "balanced" earning of 0.5 for 1 throw. For 2 throws, my "balanced earnings" will be 0.75, and so on. It's like saying that if I play once, my average earning will be 50 cent. I will edit my answer to try to make myself more clear.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – cinico
                                    yesterday














                                  0












                                  0








                                  0





                                  $begingroup$

                                  Maybe I'm making a mistake in this reasoning, but I believe that the logical answer is:




                                  I would pay 1 $




                                  Explanation




                                  Let $n$ be number of throws, following a risk-adjusted cost approach, the probability corrected money $M$ you win from playing is equal to the average of the prize (2 to the power of n consecutive throws) multiplied by the probability of getting that prize (n consecutive throws):

                                  $ M = (2^n - 1) times (1/2)^n Leftrightarrow $

                                  $ M = frac2^n - 12^n$

                                  $M_n rightarrow infty = 1$, and therefore the average money earned by playing this game will tend to 1 $ (remember that this game has not cumulative earnings, in opposition to the St. Petersburg paradox)

                                  Because I am playing with my best friend, I don't want him to lose money (but also not me) and, therefore, I will pay him the average prize that I will win so that the net loss/earnings between us is zero.







                                  share|improve this answer











                                  $endgroup$



                                  Maybe I'm making a mistake in this reasoning, but I believe that the logical answer is:




                                  I would pay 1 $




                                  Explanation




                                  Let $n$ be number of throws, following a risk-adjusted cost approach, the probability corrected money $M$ you win from playing is equal to the average of the prize (2 to the power of n consecutive throws) multiplied by the probability of getting that prize (n consecutive throws):

                                  $ M = (2^n - 1) times (1/2)^n Leftrightarrow $

                                  $ M = frac2^n - 12^n$

                                  $M_n rightarrow infty = 1$, and therefore the average money earned by playing this game will tend to 1 $ (remember that this game has not cumulative earnings, in opposition to the St. Petersburg paradox)

                                  Because I am playing with my best friend, I don't want him to lose money (but also not me) and, therefore, I will pay him the average prize that I will win so that the net loss/earnings between us is zero.








                                  share|improve this answer














                                  share|improve this answer



                                  share|improve this answer








                                  edited yesterday

























                                  answered yesterday









                                  cinicocinico

                                  1565




                                  1565











                                  • $begingroup$
                                    Your equation doesn't seem to match the game description. According to your math, at n=1, M=0.5. According to the game description, at n=1, M=1.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – glibdud
                                    yesterday










                                  • $begingroup$
                                    @glibdud It does, but maybe I did not explain myself correctly. From a "risk analysis" point of view, I will have a "balanced" earning of 0.5 for 1 throw. For 2 throws, my "balanced earnings" will be 0.75, and so on. It's like saying that if I play once, my average earning will be 50 cent. I will edit my answer to try to make myself more clear.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – cinico
                                    yesterday

















                                  • $begingroup$
                                    Your equation doesn't seem to match the game description. According to your math, at n=1, M=0.5. According to the game description, at n=1, M=1.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – glibdud
                                    yesterday










                                  • $begingroup$
                                    @glibdud It does, but maybe I did not explain myself correctly. From a "risk analysis" point of view, I will have a "balanced" earning of 0.5 for 1 throw. For 2 throws, my "balanced earnings" will be 0.75, and so on. It's like saying that if I play once, my average earning will be 50 cent. I will edit my answer to try to make myself more clear.
                                    $endgroup$
                                    – cinico
                                    yesterday
















                                  $begingroup$
                                  Your equation doesn't seem to match the game description. According to your math, at n=1, M=0.5. According to the game description, at n=1, M=1.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – glibdud
                                  yesterday




                                  $begingroup$
                                  Your equation doesn't seem to match the game description. According to your math, at n=1, M=0.5. According to the game description, at n=1, M=1.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – glibdud
                                  yesterday












                                  $begingroup$
                                  @glibdud It does, but maybe I did not explain myself correctly. From a "risk analysis" point of view, I will have a "balanced" earning of 0.5 for 1 throw. For 2 throws, my "balanced earnings" will be 0.75, and so on. It's like saying that if I play once, my average earning will be 50 cent. I will edit my answer to try to make myself more clear.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – cinico
                                  yesterday





                                  $begingroup$
                                  @glibdud It does, but maybe I did not explain myself correctly. From a "risk analysis" point of view, I will have a "balanced" earning of 0.5 for 1 throw. For 2 throws, my "balanced earnings" will be 0.75, and so on. It's like saying that if I play once, my average earning will be 50 cent. I will edit my answer to try to make myself more clear.
                                  $endgroup$
                                  – cinico
                                  yesterday












                                  -1












                                  $begingroup$

                                  To play once I would pay:




                                  50 cents, since it is a doubling game and one heads is a dollar.







                                  share|improve this answer










                                  New contributor




                                  likwidfire2k is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                  Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                  $endgroup$

















                                    -1












                                    $begingroup$

                                    To play once I would pay:




                                    50 cents, since it is a doubling game and one heads is a dollar.







                                    share|improve this answer










                                    New contributor




                                    likwidfire2k is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                    Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                    $endgroup$















                                      -1












                                      -1








                                      -1





                                      $begingroup$

                                      To play once I would pay:




                                      50 cents, since it is a doubling game and one heads is a dollar.







                                      share|improve this answer










                                      New contributor




                                      likwidfire2k is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                      Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                      $endgroup$



                                      To play once I would pay:




                                      50 cents, since it is a doubling game and one heads is a dollar.








                                      share|improve this answer










                                      New contributor




                                      likwidfire2k is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                      Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                      share|improve this answer



                                      share|improve this answer








                                      edited Apr 22 at 19:18





















                                      New contributor




                                      likwidfire2k is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                      Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                      answered Apr 22 at 18:16









                                      likwidfire2klikwidfire2k

                                      1487




                                      1487




                                      New contributor




                                      likwidfire2k is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                      Check out our Code of Conduct.





                                      New contributor





                                      likwidfire2k is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                      Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                      likwidfire2k is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                      Check out our Code of Conduct.




















                                          SpqrTiang is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









                                          draft saved

                                          draft discarded


















                                          SpqrTiang is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












                                          SpqrTiang is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.











                                          SpqrTiang is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.














                                          Thanks for contributing an answer to Puzzling Stack Exchange!


                                          • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                          But avoid


                                          • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                          • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                                          Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                                          To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                                          draft saved


                                          draft discarded














                                          StackExchange.ready(
                                          function ()
                                          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fpuzzling.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f82060%2fcoin-game-with-infinite-paradox%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                                          );

                                          Post as a guest















                                          Required, but never shown





















































                                          Required, but never shown














                                          Required, but never shown












                                          Required, but never shown







                                          Required, but never shown

































                                          Required, but never shown














                                          Required, but never shown












                                          Required, but never shown







                                          Required, but never shown







                                          Popular posts from this blog

                                          Grendel Contents Story Scholarship Depictions Notes References Navigation menu10.1093/notesj/gjn112Berserkeree

                                          Area configuration aggregation error after install Porto themeMagento 2.1 CE Installed but front/backend not loading/workingCSS not loading on page within Magento 2 pageCannot install module in Magento 2no commands defined in the “setup” namespace. in Magento2Magento 2: Static files are present but shows 404Why do i have to always run the commands to clean cache in Magento 2.1.8?Failure reason: 'Unable to unserialize value.'Error 500 after magento migrationIn production mode the site does not loadMagento 2 : Error 500 after installing

                                          Middle Expansion Olielle Resaix Definition: Uttering songs of triumph shouting with joy triumphant exulting Sejunction Journal 붙다 달 고급 품목 외출 The stretch trades the screeching tin. Definition: The act of speaking with a drawl a drawl Cough Sand Definition: An uproar a quarrel a noisy outbreak Shake Iron Publicize Horse House Baby 사과 Resaix Flaggy Jelly Temporary Unequaled Puppet A drop in the bucket Shrew 성격 회원 성질 미팅 The burn frames the tacky quality. Materialistic The smoke reduces the way. Yammoe Nondescript Cheek 얼굴 배 약하다 날리다 타다 The illegal country shows the iron. Help Rule Drearien Smoke Teaching Meaty Wasp Abraham Lincoln Jaws 진심 수리하다 Size Cork Idea Convert Think Lark John Lennon 거울 청소 군 추천하다 아이스크림